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(Some Night Train)   Mozilla gives up on Thunderbird, decides to give MD 20/20 a try   (blog.lizardwrangler.com) divider line 107
    More: Sad, email clients, thunderbird, security updates, Mozilla, front end, mail server, Extended Support Release  
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6541 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Jul 2012 at 10:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-07 07:46:37 AM
They're not the first tech company to address the lucrative bum wine market:

bumwine.com
 
2012-07-07 08:09:53 AM
Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.
 
2012-07-07 08:17:59 AM

cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.


Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.
 
2012-07-07 08:25:54 AM

GAT_00: cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.


I've pretty much given up on Firefox and use Chrome almost exclusively now. I did return to Safari for a while on my Mac because Google took a little while getting Chrome to work properly in Lion, but now that that's sorted out, I'm back to Chrome.

Firefox on either platform, however, seems to be quite buggy.
 
2012-07-07 08:28:49 AM

jake_lex: GAT_00: cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.

I've pretty much given up on Firefox and use Chrome almost exclusively now. I did return to Safari for a while on my Mac because Google took a little while getting Chrome to work properly in Lion, but now that that's sorted out, I'm back to Chrome.

Firefox on either platform, however, seems to be quite buggy.


Considering that I can't figure out how to make Chrome keep a list of commonly visited sites without bookmarking every damn site I visit, I'm not switching. Plus I don't think you can block Google ads with it.
 
2012-07-07 08:32:30 AM

GAT_00: jake_lex: GAT_00: cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.

I've pretty much given up on Firefox and use Chrome almost exclusively now. I did return to Safari for a while on my Mac because Google took a little while getting Chrome to work properly in Lion, but now that that's sorted out, I'm back to Chrome.

Firefox on either platform, however, seems to be quite buggy.

Considering that I can't figure out how to make Chrome keep a list of commonly visited sites without bookmarking every damn site I visit, I'm not switching. Plus I don't think you can block Google ads with it.


Chrome has adblocker. So does Safari. Hell, every major browser has some sort of adblocking extension (yes, including IE).

/Safari on OS X for me, Chrome on Windows and Linux
 
2012-07-07 08:35:09 AM
Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

I'm pretty sure today's update 4.23.1.a.7.10.987.1.2 should be out any moment now.
 
2012-07-07 08:36:38 AM

Pocket Ninja: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

I'm pretty sure today's update 4.23.1.a.7.10.987.1.2 should be out any moment now.


You are two minor releases behind. Get with the rapid-release program, kid!
 
2012-07-07 08:48:23 AM
I just started switching from Thunderbird to Sparrow. Thunderbird has too many problems, including a desire to compact my folders for 1000 hours when I've only had it for a month.

That, and it has trouble handling gmail for accounts that use a different domain. (ie, UVA email addresses, @virginia.edu, use imap.googlemail.com. Thunderbird doesn't always play well in those cases.)
 
2012-07-07 08:58:25 AM

cman: GAT_00: jake_lex: GAT_00: cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.

I've pretty much given up on Firefox and use Chrome almost exclusively now. I did return to Safari for a while on my Mac because Google took a little while getting Chrome to work properly in Lion, but now that that's sorted out, I'm back to Chrome.

Firefox on either platform, however, seems to be quite buggy.

Considering that I can't figure out how to make Chrome keep a list of commonly visited sites without bookmarking every damn site I visit, I'm not switching. Plus I don't think you can block Google ads with it.

Chrome has adblocker. So does Safari. Hell, every major browser has some sort of adblocking extension (yes, including IE).

/Safari on OS X for me, Chrome on Windows and Linux


I know it has an adblocker, but aren't Google's ads exempt from the blocker?
 
2012-07-07 09:28:03 AM

GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: jake_lex: GAT_00: cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.

I've pretty much given up on Firefox and use Chrome almost exclusively now. I did return to Safari for a while on my Mac because Google took a little while getting Chrome to work properly in Lion, but now that that's sorted out, I'm back to Chrome.

Firefox on either platform, however, seems to be quite buggy.

Considering that I can't figure out how to make Chrome keep a list of commonly visited sites without bookmarking every damn site I visit, I'm not switching. Plus I don't think you can block Google ads with it.

Chrome has adblocker. So does Safari. Hell, every major browser has some sort of adblocking extension (yes, including IE).

/Safari on OS X for me, Chrome on Windows and Linux

I know it has an adblocker, but aren't Google's ads exempt from the blocker?


No. Google does not make the adblocker. It is done by a third party
 
2012-07-07 09:40:51 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: GAT_00: jake_lex: GAT_00: cman: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

Seriously. New version crashes like a motherfarker when you pause a video on a second monitor.

I've pretty much given up on Firefox and use Chrome almost exclusively now. I did return to Safari for a while on my Mac because Google took a little while getting Chrome to work properly in Lion, but now that that's sorted out, I'm back to Chrome.

Firefox on either platform, however, seems to be quite buggy.

Considering that I can't figure out how to make Chrome keep a list of commonly visited sites without bookmarking every damn site I visit, I'm not switching. Plus I don't think you can block Google ads with it.

Chrome has adblocker. So does Safari. Hell, every major browser has some sort of adblocking extension (yes, including IE).

/Safari on OS X for me, Chrome on Windows and Linux

I know it has an adblocker, but aren't Google's ads exempt from the blocker?

No. Google does not make the adblocker. It is done by a third party


You could always use speed dial extensions, available on both chrome and firefox. Also firefox has been extremely stable for me with the latest beta 14 update, those having issues might want to give it a shot.
 
2012-07-07 10:07:47 AM
I love Chrome. Switched away from FF after they went full bloatware and haven't looked back. Does absolutely everything FF did but way faster.

I'll miss thunderbird though -=(
 
2012-07-07 10:20:59 AM
Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?
 
2012-07-07 10:22:17 AM

snuff3r: I love Chrome. Switched away from FF after they went full bloatware and haven't looked back. Does absolutely everything FF did but way faster.

I'll miss thunderbird though -=(



Why woud you miss Thunderbird? its not going anywhere.
 
2012-07-07 10:25:42 AM

elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?


If you are on Windows, Chrome or SW Iron are good picks. Opera aint too bad.

If you are on OS X, use Safari. Safari works farking awesome in the OS.

If you are on Linux, use Epiphany. Epiphany is probably my favorite web browser out there. Its a shame that its ports to Windows and OS X are shiat.
 
2012-07-07 10:28:57 AM
Let me get this straight. The company produces two software packages. They now believe

Package "A" (Firefox) should be updated once every 15 minutes
Package "B" (Thunderbird) should never be upgraded again.

o.O



wtf are they thinking?
 
2012-07-07 10:33:16 AM

OnlyM3: Let me get this straight. The company produces two software packages. They now believe

Package "A" (Firefox) should be updated once every 15 minutes
Package "B" (Thunderbird) should never be upgraded again.

o.O



wtf are they thinking?


Have the group that made Package "B" make a new version of Package "A" so that it does not need to be updated every 15 minutes?

/Sadly decided to drop Firefox since my iBook can't run newer versions and it was a memory hog
//Using Safari now
 
2012-07-07 10:35:01 AM

cman: elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?

If you are on Windows, Chrome or SW Iron are good picks. Opera aint too bad.

If you are on OS X, use Safari. Safari works farking awesome in the OS.

If you are on Linux, use Epiphany. Epiphany is probably my favorite web browser out there. Its a shame that its ports to Windows and OS X are shiat.


I believe they were referring to the mail client.
 
2012-07-07 10:40:13 AM
Why would you want to use a stand-alone email client on a computer? especially with Gmail integrating with so many other email accounts, or you could always use a phone.
 
2012-07-07 10:41:02 AM
That's a shame.

I was hoping they could integrate Sunbird and someone would finally have an email/calendaring client that comes close to doing what Outlook does.

Oh well.
 
2012-07-07 10:41:53 AM

sno man: cman: elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?

If you are on Windows, Chrome or SW Iron are good picks. Opera aint too bad.

If you are on OS X, use Safari. Safari works farking awesome in the OS.

If you are on Linux, use Epiphany. Epiphany is probably my favorite web browser out there. Its a shame that its ports to Windows and OS X are shiat.

I believe they were referring to the mail client.



I was/am. thanks
 
2012-07-07 10:44:59 AM

elvisaintdead: sno man: cman: elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?

If you are on Windows, Chrome or SW Iron are good picks. Opera aint too bad.

If you are on OS X, use Safari. Safari works farking awesome in the OS.

If you are on Linux, use Epiphany. Epiphany is probably my favorite web browser out there. Its a shame that its ports to Windows and OS X are shiat.

I believe they were referring to the mail client.


I was/am. thanks


I'm sticking with the bird... not altogether thrilled with the whole cloud thing, and the article talked about stability updates, so no immediate panic...
 
2012-07-07 10:55:10 AM
I like the Thunderbird client. One of the few programs I've hardly ever had problems with. I'm not bothered it isn't being developed further because it doesn't need to be ATM.
 
2012-07-07 11:03:40 AM
Does this mean they won't be pushing an update every single week then? That makes this a good thing, not bad.
 
2012-07-07 11:06:02 AM
A former college instructor of mine is going to be heartbroken to hear this. lol. He even used Thunderbird for his Email Admin class.
 
2012-07-07 11:09:59 AM
THUNDERBIRD IS... no go, I guess.
 
2012-07-07 11:16:35 AM
I fear that still using stand alone email client is becoming a sign that a person is elderly in same way having AOL-email address or still having a personal landline already is.

Also:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-07-07 11:23:24 AM

elvisaintdead: sno man: cman: elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?

If you are on Windows, Chrome or SW Iron are good picks. Opera aint too bad.

If you are on OS X, use Safari. Safari works farking awesome in the OS.

If you are on Linux, use Epiphany. Epiphany is probably my favorite web browser out there. Its a shame that its ports to Windows and OS X are shiat.

I believe they were referring to the mail client.


I was/am. thanks


I use the mail in windows live essentials
/Choose custom install so you don't have to install all those other programs
 
2012-07-07 11:25:31 AM

Pocket Ninja: Mozilla should just focus on FireFox.

I'm pretty sure today's update 4.23.1.a.7.10.987.1.2 should be out any moment now.


img860.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-07 11:28:38 AM
Mozilla: I know, I know, I said that I would quit
All right, I promise, no more after this
You don't know how I've tried
To forget what it was like
I remember now
I remember now
Why we called it Thunderbird
 
2012-07-07 11:39:25 AM
Thunderbird is not going away. The only thing that is changing is that Mozilla won't be paying people to develop it. All development will be done by volunteers. There will still be updates, though not nearly as many.

Dedicated email clients are a good thing. Web-based email sucks, quite frankly. Just because it is trendy doesn't mean it is good. Just because it is popular doesn't mean it is a sound concept. Remember...web-based email was developed primarily as a way to integrate advertising into the email experience. It wasn't developed to make emailing easier, faster, or more secure, and in fact it doesn't do any of those things. The only advantage it really has is that there is no real configuration to deal with in setting up an account. And if you can't handle that...well you probably won't be using the internet for long anyway.

Other topic: I use FF. Chrome still doesn't have the plugin support that FF does, plus it is a Google product and is therefore inherently untrustworthy. FF has always been very stable for me. I think it has crashed twice on me in the last 6 years. Most FF crashes are due to third-party plugin conflicts (i.e. badly written code) anyway, and have nothing to do with FF itself. Yes, it is big and bloated, but it is infinitely configurable to the point where you can eliminate everything that you don't want or need from bogging the system down. I find it very hard to take complaints like "FF is bulky and bloated" seriously for that reason. You ought to learn how to use the software properly before you level criticisms at it. If it is too hard for you to learn to use properly, fine...make that your criticism and go enjoy Chrome and IE.
 
2012-07-07 11:39:41 AM
Get Brains working on a solution!
 
2012-07-07 11:40:14 AM

Ed Finnerty: That's a shame.

I was hoping they could integrate Sunbird and someone would finally have an email/calendaring client that comes close to doing what Outlook does.

Oh well.


Because engineers ozone don't care about calendaring and don't understand that others live and die by them in the corporate world.

Exchange/Outlook is the de facto standard if you like it or not. It just is.

I was on the cc list for a Thunderbird bug with Exchange that took ELEVEN YEARS to fix it was closes last week. I still have FFox and TB bugs open that are older. "Exchange does it wrong!" who cares, work around it instead of sitting on a fix that drove people away from the product. The tail can't wag the dog.

They just don't get it. They're disgruntled developers that waste time on self-gratifying features and changes for the sake of it not realizing that by doing so makes it unpredictable and unstable.

I'm an old former Netscape employee who put years of my life in their products but have given up. Outlook 2010 with integrated calendaring and contacts just works for me. Im on Chrome now and go to ffox or IE only if i have to as Chrome has its bugs too I've moved on from using "spiteware" that tries twice as hard to be half as good.
 
2012-07-07 11:43:29 AM

GAT_00: Considering that I can't figure out how to make Chrome keep a list of commonly visited sites without bookmarking every damn site I visit, I'm not switching. Plus I don't think you can block Google ads with it.


I'm not sure what you're actually looking for (lists of sites without bookmarking them?)

But you might look at TabCloud (Chrome and Firefox) if you haven't already.
 
2012-07-07 11:50:37 AM

lohphat: Outlook 2010 with integrated calendaring and contacts just works for me


I've worked at companies that use Outlook and Exchange, but never at a company that actually trained employees on how to use them. So I (we) probably used them poorly. I recall having to send email invites to conference rooms in order to reserve them, and never being able to actually reserve a conference room but always having to get admins to make the reservation as they had the privs/no how

I think the last Outlook I officially used was probably Outlook 2007 or something like that. Maybe Outlook 2010. If I recall correctly, one enormous disfeature was that I could never figure out how to see both the calendar and my mailbox at the same time. But I am probably remembering that wrong.

So pardon my asking, what is it exactly that Outlook provides you that you find useful, and it is useful outside one particular company's lan?
 
2012-07-07 11:57:29 AM
What giving up on a Thunderbird might look like.

www.aircraftresourcecenter.com
 
2012-07-07 12:04:49 PM

Balchinian: Thunderbird is not going away. The only thing that is changing is that Mozilla won't be paying people to develop it. All development will be done by volunteers. There will still be updates, though not nearly as many.

Dedicated email clients are a good thing. Web-based email sucks, quite frankly. Just because it is trendy doesn't mean it is good. Just because it is popular doesn't mean it is a sound concept. Remember...web-based email was developed primarily as a way to integrate advertising into the email experience. It wasn't developed to make emailing easier, faster, or more secure, and in fact it doesn't do any of those things. The only advantage it really has is that there is no real configuration to deal with in setting up an account. And if you can't handle that...well you probably won't be using the internet for long anyway.

Other topic: I use FF. Chrome still doesn't have the plugin support that FF does, plus it is a Google product and is therefore inherently untrustworthy. FF has always been very stable for me. I think it has crashed twice on me in the last 6 years. Most FF crashes are due to third-party plugin conflicts (i.e. badly written code) anyway, and have nothing to do with FF itself. Yes, it is big and bloated, but it is infinitely configurable to the point where you can eliminate everything that you don't want or need from bogging the system down. I find it very hard to take complaints like "FF is bulky and bloated" seriously for that reason. You ought to learn how to use the software properly before you level criticisms at it. If it is too hard for you to learn to use properly, fine...make that your criticism and go enjoy Chrome and IE.


You managed to point out key differences in issues among the browsers, address the advantages/disadvantages of email client vs webmail, and be a giant, condescending douche in two paragraphs. Bravo.
 
2012-07-07 12:06:25 PM
It's fine. I do wish, however, that they'd add a bit in that can translate MS lookout appointment emails into something human readable. Not necessary doing anything _with_ them, just so that when someone sends me a meeting advisory, I have a clue which day it's on.

/ (There is a very obscure 3rd party plugin that can do it, but it's not available on Mozilla's plugin site.)
 
2012-07-07 12:06:49 PM
I like to mix Muscatel and Ripple. I call it Muscatipple.
 
2012-07-07 12:06:59 PM
Damn it subby you owe me a new monitor.

/was drinking coffee when reading the headline
/coffee...coffee every where.
 
2012-07-07 12:09:52 PM

GendoIkari: Why would you want to use a stand-alone email client on a computer?


I don't care for the interface limitations of webmail. I store my stuff on a local server in my apartment that I can access anywhere on the internet, and if I feel like having a 50GB mail spool containing every email message I've ever sent or received since 1993, that's my business.

I also strongly dislike Outlook, mostly for being overly complex for what should be a very simple tool. Outlook stores settings in at least five different places depending on configuration. It breaks a lot. it has a fragile data format. Even in managed environments there's a lot of variability in client configuration that I don't care for. Some of its options (all of Office, really) aren't exposed directly in Outlook but nonsensically in MS Word. Outlook is also kind of pain in the ass to support; a lot of people who have used it for 15 years still don't understand how to do all the stuff that it's capable of doing or what it is not capable of doing. Email shouldn't be that hard.

Thunderbird handles whatever I give it. It just works. I've never seen a Thunderbird mail spool shiat itself. I've never seen it complain that its data file is too big. It doesn't need a fully-functional word processor to act as a rich text editor. It doesn't require that I give up all my privacy to an organization like Google. All of those are good things.
 
2012-07-07 12:14:10 PM
They're not stopping development, just focusing on stability instead of features - something I wish more software developers would do.

/prefers Cisco as bum wines go
 
2012-07-07 12:15:01 PM

GendoIkari: Why would you want to use a stand-alone email client on a computer? especially with Gmail integrating with so many other email accounts, or you could always use a phone.


Because Mail.app is badass. And IMAP in Gmail works great between home compy and on the phone.
 
2012-07-07 12:16:05 PM

verbaltoxin: Balchinian: Thunderbird is not going away. The only thing that is changing is that Mozilla won't be paying people to develop it. All development will be done by volunteers. There will still be updates, though not nearly as many.

Dedicated email clients are a good thing. Web-based email sucks, quite frankly. Just because it is trendy doesn't mean it is good. Just because it is popular doesn't mean it is a sound concept. Remember...web-based email was developed primarily as a way to integrate advertising into the email experience. It wasn't developed to make emailing easier, faster, or more secure, and in fact it doesn't do any of those things. The only advantage it really has is that there is no real configuration to deal with in setting up an account. And if you can't handle that...well you probably won't be using the internet for long anyway.

Other topic: I use FF. Chrome still doesn't have the plugin support that FF does, plus it is a Google product and is therefore inherently untrustworthy. FF has always been very stable for me. I think it has crashed twice on me in the last 6 years. Most FF crashes are due to third-party plugin conflicts (i.e. badly written code) anyway, and have nothing to do with FF itself. Yes, it is big and bloated, but it is infinitely configurable to the point where you can eliminate everything that you don't want or need from bogging the system down. I find it very hard to take complaints like "FF is bulky and bloated" seriously for that reason. You ought to learn how to use the software properly before you level criticisms at it. If it is too hard for you to learn to use properly, fine...make that your criticism and go enjoy Chrome and IE.

You managed to point out key differences in issues among the browsers, address the advantages/disadvantages of email client vs webmail, and be a giant, condescending douche in two paragraphs. Bravo.


Everybody hates Firefox updates (cached)

Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:53
Tagged: mozilla silicon_valley computers_suck
It pains me to write this article, but I've got to get this off my chest at some point.

On Saturday I was waiting around a classroom at 上海外国语大学 (Shanghai International Language University) with a bunch of other prospective students, waiting for our numbers to be called for oral placement exams.

I was chatting with a random Canadian woman. She found out I worked for Mozilla and I got that sinking feeling, like "here we go again" because I knew exactly what was coming up. She proceeded to tell me the story of how she switched to Chrome because Firefox kept breaking her extensions and asking her to restart.

I've heard this story a lot in the last year.

I used to be proud to say I worked (or had worked) for Mozilla, but a careful listener might detect a certain sheepish quality that has crept into my voice lately when I name-check my former employer. And this is why. Even on the opposite side of the world, it's always the same story: "I used to love Firefox", but "I switched to Chrome because my extensions stopped working" or "I switched to chrome because Firefox kept asking me to restart".

I've had this conversation with dozens of people across three continents. Not one person has had anything good to say about the rapid release process. Nearly 100% of my highly unscientific survey volunteered the information -- unasked, unprompted -- that the rapid release process had ruined Firefox for them.

Of course nobody says "rapid release process" because people don't know that's what it was called. They might start out complaining about version numbers, or some plugin that doesn't work right, but when I ask enough questions to get to the root of the problem, it's always the rapid release process....
 
2012-07-07 12:19:20 PM
How many people regularly still use e-mail clients? I probably do 50% of my e-mailing on my iPhone, and the other 50% using Gmail's web interface. Even with work e-mail I'm using outlook web e-mail probably 30% of the time, iPhone 50%, and outlook 20%.

Pretty much the only time I use an e-mail client for personal -- the mail program that comes with Macs -- is for basically backing up all of my Gmail on a local machine.
 
2012-07-07 12:21:01 PM
Dammit! No means no! Quit calling me, Mozilla!
 
2012-07-07 12:25:45 PM

elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?


On Windows, Windows Live Email (the desktop client).

Not sure on Linux.

/Outlook and Exchange are still the gold standard
 
2012-07-07 12:31:09 PM

elvisaintdead: Serious question -
so what's a good alternative now?


There's no need to switch; it's still going to get security fixes and what not, they're just not going to devote a lot of R&D to new features. If you like Thunderbird as it is, keep using it.
 
2012-07-07 12:31:10 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: I use the mail in windows live essentials
/Choose custom install so you don't have to install all those other programs


I like that, too. I set it up for a couple of friends who don't want web-based email.

I also use it to backup my gmail messages if for some reason I need access while off-line. Hasn't happened in the 7 or 8 years I've used Gmail, but still..
 
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