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(Think Progress)   Not to be outdone by Pennsylvania, Mississippi institutes its own Voter ID Catch 22   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 147
    More: Scary, Voter ID Catch 22, Pennsylvania, Mississippi, get out the vote, voter suppression, American Legislative Exchange Council, ballot initiatives  
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5378 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jul 2012 at 6:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



147 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-07-06 06:28:07 PM
Haha. I went to high school with the spokeswoman mentioned.

She was a c*nt in high school and she sure seems like a c*nt now.
 
2012-07-06 06:28:41 PM
Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?
 
2012-07-06 06:29:06 PM
Well, it's Mississippi, is anyone surprised?
 
2012-07-06 06:29:21 PM
If you can't win a fair fight, cheat!
 
2012-07-06 06:30:49 PM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?


The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=
 
2012-07-06 06:33:06 PM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?


Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?

And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?
 
2012-07-06 06:33:43 PM
[guinnessbrilliant.jpg]
 
2012-07-06 06:36:24 PM
Well, that was a waste of tax payer dollars.
 
2012-07-06 06:37:31 PM
initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.
 
2012-07-06 06:38:11 PM
The only thing missing is a grandfather clause that lets white folks skip the pre-requisites.
 
2012-07-06 06:38:27 PM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?


1966 cchris_39:

Who are these people who manage to get through life without an extra $2 for the poll tax? And what makes the all want to come out into the daylight on election day?
 
2012-07-06 06:38:56 PM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?


The elderly. They don't drive and no one cards them for alcohol or cigs. Or car-less inner city youths without cardable vices.

Cubansaltyballs: Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?


Drunks.

Cubansaltyballs: And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?


They don't like the idea of someone being able to vote other than for a straight republican ticket.
 
2012-07-06 06:39:51 PM
As long as it drives down voter turnout it's doing its job.
 
2012-07-06 06:40:54 PM

Cubansaltyballs: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?

And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?


It is a systematic way to disenfranchise voters (elderly, the youth and minorities) who statistically vote Democrat. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
2012-07-06 06:41:54 PM

nyseattitude: Cubansaltyballs: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?

And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?

It is a systematic way to disenfranchise voters (elderly, the youth and minorities) who statistically vote Democrat. Nothing more, nothing less.


That's just your racism showing.
 
2012-07-06 06:41:55 PM
Republicans love freedom so much, that they don't want anyone else to have it.
 
2012-07-06 06:42:36 PM
... all enemies, foreign and domestic.
 
2012-07-06 06:43:25 PM

Cubansaltyballs: nyseattitude: Cubansaltyballs: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?

And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?

It is a systematic way to disenfranchise voters (elderly, the youth and minorities) who statistically vote Democrat. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's just your racism showing.


Lol, ok. Are you trolling me because that's the first time in my life I have been called a racist.
 
2012-07-06 06:45:01 PM

stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.


BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.
 
2012-07-06 06:45:20 PM
Mississippi you stink. That is all.
 
2012-07-06 06:48:18 PM
Don't you love the consistency of the right?

GET GUBERMENT OUT OUR LIVES!!!!

OH, but you should have to get a government photo ID and use it for everything and be forced to show proof of citizenship on demand.
 
2012-07-06 06:49:05 PM
ALEC need to be added to an official list of hate groups and domestic terrorists.
 
2012-07-06 06:53:31 PM

Corvus: Don't you love the consistency of the right?

GET GUBERMENT OUT OUR LIVES!!!!

OH, but you should have to get a government photo ID and use it for everything and be forced to show proof of citizenship on demand.


And not one of them federal national ID's either. Those things would only be good for having a consistent way for police to determine national citizenship or letting The Man track you by your wallet. Only state's rights' approved ID are acceptable.
 
2012-07-06 06:54:08 PM

fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.


How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.
 
2012-07-06 06:55:02 PM
Wow, I thought the headline was exaggerating about the catch-22 bit. Then I clicked.

Stupid farking hicks.
 
2012-07-06 06:55:53 PM

fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.


The Republican Voting Dream Act:
Any and all non white, non Christian, non conservative "citizens" of the United States of America must present federally certified ancestry records of no less than sixty years, a certified state birth certificate, a certified state birth certificate of each said ancestor and $4500.00 administrative fee to the RNC. Please allow 10-14 years for processing.
 
2012-07-06 06:56:07 PM

Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.


Probably through your SSN# i am guessing.
 
2012-07-06 07:00:59 PM
And where the hell is Mr. Ippi during all of this?
 
2012-07-06 07:04:28 PM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?


I haven't been asked for my id in over a month and that was for a liquor store that cards every living soul who walks in the door because the local DA is running for mayor.

/asking for an ID is rarely about protecting you or the system - its to protect whomever is asking for it
 
2012-07-06 07:04:42 PM
I'd be more outraged if the ballot opponents hadn't flat out lied in their arguments.

"Implementing Voter ID amounts to a 21st Century poll tax. Those who do not have the documents required to obtain an ID will have to spend money to get documents such as birth certificates. These documents are not free, so some persons will be forced to "pay to vote." The 14th and 24th amendments prohibit any costs or fees associated with voting. In the 1966 case Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, the U.S. Supreme Court prohibited the use of poll taxes as a prerequisite to voting in local and state elections." - Sue Harmon, MoveOn.org

Oops, Ms. Harmon, guess your research area doesn't include Indiana. Perhaps you need to revisit Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, since you seem set on providing SCOTUS cases to attempt to bolster your lies.
 
2012-07-06 07:06:12 PM
Nice Mississippi either this is some weapons grade stupidity on the writer of this law or the writer is an evil genius.
 
2012-07-06 07:10:49 PM
Sarsin:

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

It gets better. Every state has different rules. When we were pulling the birth certificate for my boyfriend so he could get a passport - all it required was his mother and fathers maiden names and the counties they were born in to get a certified copy of his certificate. Other states require you to show up in the fark'n office with the whole damn clan to get a certified copy and navigate a bureaucratic maze.

From Tennesse it appears you have alternatives:

Two items from the following list:
Current pay stub or W2
Vehicle registration with name and current address
Voter Registration card
Military Discharge (DD214)
Utility Bill, Bank Statement or deposit slip with name and current address
Health care coverage card
Medical record
Application page of an insurance policy
Signed Social Security Card
For those person who have had their I.D. stolen, a copy a police report or other official documents which support the theft.


/getting a birth certificate is 8 bucks in Tennessee. So poll tax!
 
2012-07-06 07:11:00 PM

Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=


Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.
 
2012-07-06 07:12:56 PM

stewmadness: Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

Probably through your SSN# i am guessing.


Most places require a SSN and possibly signing an affidavit as a minimum in order to get a copy of your birth certificate, no photo ID required. The law being introduced in Mississippi would require you to have a photo ID in order to get a copy of your birth certificate. The law is not just about presenting photo ID to vote, but also changes the requirements for obtaining a birth certificate.
 
2012-07-06 07:16:20 PM

fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

Probably through your SSN# i am guessing.

Most places require a SSN and possibly signing an affidavit as a minimum in order to get a copy of your birth certificate, no photo ID required. The law being introduced in Mississippi would require you to have a photo ID in order to get a copy of your birth certificate. The law is not just about presenting photo ID to vote, but also changes the requirements for obtaining a birth certificate.


It does not change the requirements for obtaining a birth certificate. It can't possibly change them, as the new law is not yet implemented, yet the MS DPS still shows that a photo ID is required for a BC.

Here is the text of the initiative. Please show the class where it changes requirements to obtain a BC.
 
2012-07-06 07:18:41 PM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?


I don't have a photo ID, haven't for years, and I get through life just fine, thanks.
 
2012-07-06 07:19:40 PM

fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

Probably through your SSN# i am guessing.

Most places require a SSN and possibly signing an affidavit as a minimum in order to get a copy of your birth certificate, no photo ID required. The law being introduced in Mississippi would require you to have a photo ID in order to get a copy of your birth certificate. The law is not just about presenting photo ID to vote, but also changes the requirements for obtaining a birth certificate.


Oh awesome, I missed that part. So if you had a home birth and your parents forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.
 
2012-07-06 07:21:28 PM
i159.photobucket.com

/works for all dumbass voter-ID states, not just Texass
 
2012-07-06 07:22:00 PM

Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.


And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.
 
2012-07-06 07:22:06 PM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


If you're young enough to be carded when you buy tobacco, first that explains a lot, second, you're not old enough to participate in this discussion. Go take your bath and get ready for bed. No, you cant' have a glass of water. Don't give me that look. I heard that.
 
2012-07-06 07:23:21 PM
Exception if you're old and white.
 
2012-07-06 07:23:57 PM

Lunaville: If you're young enough to be carded when you buy tobacco, first that explains a lot, second, you're not old enough to participate in this discussion.


When did the voting age get raised from 18, in contravention of the US Constitution?

Oh wait, I see. You just wanted to feel superior.

/Still gets carded for smokes
//Is 32
 
2012-07-06 07:24:53 PM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


I work for the Department of Defense. I have a base access pass, clearance to view classified documents, and I don't have driver's license or any other form of picture ID other than my base pass. I had my wallet stolen 4 years ago and never replaced my non-driver's license (I have no depth perception so I don't drive). I don't drink or smoke, and I've never been asked for ID at any of the many places I've rented. I got approved for a car loan without an ID (the non-driver part was by far the most fun on the application, the ID part never even came up). My online bank account doesn't seem to be asking for one either.

I change states often enough that I don't want a State ID. I can go to work, come home and read fark and play games, and live my life without any ID. This will literally be the only thing I've needed an ID for in 5+ years. Maybe if I switch jobs, but I'm not really planning for that either.
 
2012-07-06 07:26:24 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

Probably through your SSN# i am guessing.

Most places require a SSN and possibly signing an affidavit as a minimum in order to get a copy of your birth certificate, no photo ID required. The law being introduced in Mississippi would require you to have a photo ID in order to get a copy of your birth certificate. The law is not just about presenting photo ID to vote, but also changes the requirements for obtaining a birth certificate.

It does not change the requirements for obtaining a birth certificate. It can't possibly change them, as the new law is not yet implemented, yet the MS DPS still shows that a photo ID is required for a BC.

Here is the text of the initiative. Please show the class where it changes requirements to obtain a BC.


My bad, I misread. Instead it is already a requirement to present a photo ID to get a copy of a birth certificate. The law just makes it so that in order to get a voter ID card (due to the fact that you don't have a photo ID) you need to get a copy of your birth certificate... which requires a photo ID to receive.
 
2012-07-06 07:28:09 PM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


I trade with my credit union all the time with just my membership card.
No problem buying cigs or booze since I am obviously over 40.
I rented a large tent for the 4th and never had to show any type of ID.
I fly (rent) a Cessna 172 most every weekend without showing ID.
My current job only required my SSN to become employed.
 
2012-07-06 07:28:40 PM
I think there should be a flat poll tax: everyone needs to pay 10% of the MFSR of their registered car(s) to register to vote. No car, free registration.
 
2012-07-06 07:28:41 PM

Raistlin212: This will literally be the only thing I've needed an ID for in 5+ years.


Except your access pass, or Common Access Card, is a government issued photo ID that you likely use regularly. You know, to access the base.

The cool thing is that it will also work for voting!
 
2012-07-06 07:29:24 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.


It doesn't matter if it's widespread. If it prevents one person from being able to vote who would otherwise be eligible, then it's disenfranchisement.
 
2012-07-06 07:29:32 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.


I will concede that my children each have a social security number. When I went to pre-register them for school, however, I refused to provide their social security numbers. If I had known it advance the hell I would catch trying to pre-register one of my children, due to the location listed on the birth certificate, I would have refused to show their birth certificates as well. I gave the school my ID, proof that I lived in the district, and proof that my children were immunized. They really didn't need access to further personal information about my children.
 
2012-07-06 07:30:00 PM

gingerjet: Sarsin:

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

It gets better. Every state has different rules. When we were pulling the birth certificate for my boyfriend so he could get a passport - all it required was his mother and fathers maiden names and the counties they were born in to get a certified copy of his certificate. Other states require you to show up in the fark'n office with the whole damn clan to get a certified copy and navigate a bureaucratic maze.

From Tennesse it appears you have alternatives:

Two items from the following list:
Current pay stub or W2
Vehicle registration with name and current address
Voter Registration card
Military Discharge (DD214)
Utility Bill, Bank Statement or deposit slip with name and current address
Health care coverage card
Medical record
Application page of an insurance policy
Signed Social Security Card
For those person who have had their I.D. stolen, a copy a police report or other official documents which support the theft.

/getting a birth certificate is 8 bucks in Tennessee. So poll tax!


If two of those things are good enough to get a birth certificate and a birth certificate is good enough to get a photo ID and the photo ID is good enough to vote, why can't you just show up with two of those items to vote?

I farking hate every single human being that supports this shiat. You are complete farking worthless excuses for Americans. EABODaFUAD
 
2012-07-06 07:30:34 PM

TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.

It doesn't matter if it's widespread. If it prevents one person from being able to vote who would otherwise be eligible, then it's disenfranchisement.


And yet you can go down to the SS office and apply for one yourself. Your parents need not have done it for you.

But seriously, I doubt there is even one that fits those criteria that also has a mad hankering to vote.
 
2012-07-06 07:30:43 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?


Probably about the same widespread issue voter fraud is, but here we are.
 
2012-07-06 07:32:07 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Lunaville: If you're young enough to be carded when you buy tobacco, first that explains a lot, second, you're not old enough to participate in this discussion.

When did the voting age get raised from 18, in contravention of the US Constitution?

Oh wait, I see. You just wanted to feel superior.

/Still gets carded for smokes
//Is 32


Is your name Cataholic? Do you want to be sent to bed also?
 
2012-07-06 07:32:22 PM
The only voter fraud currently happening is the fraud called voter ID that the Republicans are foisting off
on an unsuspecting public. Better than 80% (my guess) of current voter fraud cases have been conducted by
Republican hacks and even those were small potatoes compared to the various states voter ID crime.
 
2012-07-06 07:33:53 PM

Lunaville: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Lunaville: If you're young enough to be carded when you buy tobacco, first that explains a lot, second, you're not old enough to participate in this discussion.

When did the voting age get raised from 18, in contravention of the US Constitution?

Oh wait, I see. You just wanted to feel superior.

/Still gets carded for smokes
//Is 32

Is your name Cataholic? Do you want to be sent to bed also?


Terribly sorry. Didn't realize that you two were having a private conversation here on this public forum. Please, continue to belittle those members of the population that are younger than you are. I'm sure no one will see you as crotchety at all.
 
2012-07-06 07:34:38 PM

Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.


Lost both my ss card and birth certificate in a fire, then had my wallet stolen. My mom had to send off for my birth certificate. I guess some states allow parents or guardians the ability to order them. So if I had been orphaned (halfway there) I would have been screwed
 
2012-07-06 07:35:31 PM
Considering the way Democratic and Republican politicians both work together to screw over the public, I think the American voter is disenfranchised even when he votes.
 
2012-07-06 07:35:36 PM

Amdam: Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.

Lost both my ss card and birth certificate in a fire, then had my wallet stolen. My mom had to send off for my birth certificate. I guess some states allow parents or guardians the ability to order them. So if I had been orphaned (halfway there) I would have been screwed


Mississippi also permits a relative to obtain a certified copy of your BC.
 
2012-07-06 07:36:03 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.

It doesn't matter if it's widespread. If it prevents one person from being able to vote who would otherwise be eligible, then it's disenfranchisement.

And yet you can go down to the SS office and apply for one yourself. Your parents need not have done it for you.

But seriously, I doubt there is even one that fits those criteria that also has a mad hankering to vote.


It's OK to make it more difficult to vote if the person wouldn't have voted anyway?
 
2012-07-06 07:37:30 PM

Sarsin: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

Probably about the same widespread issue voter fraud is, but here we are.


Most smart people live by the notion that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Seems most of the voter ID laws being put into place are striving for the notion of "if it ain't broke, you're not trying"
 
2012-07-06 07:37:56 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Raistlin212: This will literally be the only thing I've needed an ID for in 5+ years.

Except your access pass, or Common Access Card, is a government issued photo ID that you likely use regularly. You know, to access the base.

The cool thing is that it will also work for voting!


Except it's not a CAC card, it's simply a base access pass. I don't know why I don't have a civilian CAC card, I could probably get one if I asked. I only have a standard consultants base access pass for my current posting. It also does not have my SS# or birthday on it, so I couldn't use it for anything.
 
2012-07-06 07:38:51 PM

TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.

It doesn't matter if it's widespread. If it prevents one person from being able to vote who would otherwise be eligible, then it's disenfranchisement.

And yet you can go down to the SS office and apply for one yourself. Your parents need not have done it for you.

But seriously, I doubt there is even one that fits those criteria that also has a mad hankering to vote.

It's OK to make it more difficult to vote if the person wouldn't have voted anyway?


Does it really matter how difficult it is for a single person to vote if they are not going to vote anyway? If making it easier will not get them to vote, then why make it easier for fraud to potentially occur?
 
2012-07-06 07:41:32 PM
I think it's also worth nothing that the Texas GOP has made the repeal of the Voting Rights Act a part of their party platform.
 
2012-07-06 07:41:38 PM

Raistlin212: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Raistlin212: This will literally be the only thing I've needed an ID for in 5+ years.

Except your access pass, or Common Access Card, is a government issued photo ID that you likely use regularly. You know, to access the base.

The cool thing is that it will also work for voting!

Except it's not a CAC card, it's simply a base access pass. I don't know why I don't have a civilian CAC card, I could probably get one if I asked. I only have a standard consultants base access pass for my current posting. It also does not have my SS# or birthday on it, so I couldn't use it for anything.


You at Whiteman?
 
2012-07-06 07:41:42 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.

It doesn't matter if it's widespread. If it prevents one person from being able to vote who would otherwise be eligible, then it's disenfranchisement.

And yet you can go down to the SS office and apply for one yourself. Your parents need not have done it for you.

But seriously, I doubt there is even one that fits those criteria that also has a mad hankering to vote.

It's OK to make it more difficult to vote if the person wouldn't have voted anyway?

Does it really matter how difficult it is for a single person to vote if they are not going to vote anyway? If making it easier will not get them to vote, then why make it easier for fraud to potentially occur?


You could use the same argument to take away voting rights entirely from people who do not traditionally vote. They have the right to vote even if they choose not to exercise it.
 
2012-07-06 07:42:54 PM
When faced with the argument that a large percentage of eligible voters do not have photo IDs, people will tell you how easy one is to get instead of explaining why one is now necessary after countless decades of almost zero voter fraud.
 
2012-07-06 07:43:40 PM

TFerWannaBe: They have the right to vote


Let's not get into that, shall we?
 
2012-07-06 07:44:22 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Does it really matter how difficult it is for a single person to vote if they are not going to vote anyway? If making it easier will not get them to vote, then why make it easier for fraud to potentially occur?


Yes. Yes it really does. And if you don't see that, then you're the one with the problem here.
 
2012-07-06 07:44:53 PM

Soup4Bonnie: When faced with the argument that a large percentage of eligible voters do not have photo IDs, people will tell you how easy one is to get instead of explaining why one is now necessary after countless decades of almost zero voter fraud.


I don't understand that either. It would take a conspiracy of massive scale to round up enough "illegal" voters to change anything. Are we to accept that somewhere there is a large organization dedicated to voter fraud that, until now, has gone unnoticed?
 
2012-07-06 07:45:53 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: They have the right to vote

Let's not get into that, shall we?


I don't think it's reasonable to have a conversation about voter fraud and eligibility without considering who should and should not have the right to vote.
 
2012-07-06 07:48:19 PM
Several years ago, when they were trying to repeal the Voting RIghts Act, I thought it would be a good idea. Now looking back, I'm glad they continued the law. In fact it is not strict enough. States act like spoiled teenagers when you let them have too much power. States currently have too much power.
 
2012-07-06 07:48:28 PM

TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: They have the right to vote

Let's not get into that, shall we?

I don't think it's reasonable to have a conversation about voter fraud and eligibility without considering who should and should not have the right to vote.


Except that you have no affirmative right to vote.
 
2012-07-06 07:52:11 PM
The Dems should pass a law that you need to have more than than three teeth to vote. That would cripple the GOP in Mississippi.
 
2012-07-06 07:54:00 PM
If you pay your taxes or have someone do it for you, you have a social security number. That's part 1 of getting a photo ID. Birth certificates I could see being hard to come by - irresponsibility, fire, theft, etc., but in most places you can get around that with some utility bills or even a baptismal record. Getting a photo ID is not terribly difficult and every state I've lived in will give you one for free if you fill out the right form. There are state IDs if you don't need a license. It makes no rational sense not to have one, even just so that someone could identify you if you're drug into a hospital somewhere. That said, it is a ridiculous voting requirement.

I've had to show photo ID twice today, but of course, I drive (technically) so I always have one with me anyway. Works great.
 
2012-07-06 07:58:14 PM
Funny how the article fails to mention the party of the people sent to jail in Noxubee County for vote fraud.
 
2012-07-06 07:58:49 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: They have the right to vote

Let's not get into that, shall we?

I don't think it's reasonable to have a conversation about voter fraud and eligibility without considering who should and should not have the right to vote.

Except that you have no affirmative right to vote.


Are you referring to the fact that the Constitution does not explicitly state that we have the right to vote? That's correct; it simply states the government may not take away that right based on certain conditions. The Constitution also does not say we have the right to own firearms, to criticize the government, to worship as we choose, to jerk off to lesbian porn: these rights are assumed to be inherent and the Constitution restricts government action concerning them.

Although I'll grant the last one is debatable.
 
2012-07-06 07:59:31 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: They have the right to vote

Let's not get into that, shall we?

I don't think it's reasonable to have a conversation about voter fraud and eligibility without considering who should and should not have the right to vote.

Except that you have no affirmative right to vote.


Every citizens right to vote is protected in a multitude of instances in the constitution and amendments. But you did not know that obviously.
 
2012-07-06 08:05:45 PM
Isn't Mississippi super deep red like a diapered republican man's ass being spanked by a leather masked leather daddy? Much of the state is made up of redneck yokels who will be the most affected by this law anyway. Probably will have an opposite effect compared to Pennsylvania.

Hyuk Hyuk we'll show them librulz
 
2012-07-06 08:07:00 PM
Good thing Obama is not a Mississippi resident. He would have to show his Birth Certificate to get a state ID to vote....
 
2012-07-06 08:08:13 PM
According to this article it would be impossible for anyone to ever obtain a photo ID in Mississippi...
 
2012-07-06 08:18:31 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: The_Six_Fingered_Man: TFerWannaBe: They have the right to vote

Let's not get into that, shall we?

I don't think it's reasonable to have a conversation about voter fraud and eligibility without considering who should and should not have the right to vote.

Except that you have no affirmative right to vote.


I'm out for the rest of the evening, but I'm interested in your response to my last message. If you do post a reply I'll check it out tomorrow morning. Good night!
 
2012-07-06 08:26:25 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.


You think voter ID laws like this one address a widespread problem in the first place?
 
2012-07-06 08:34:09 PM
/CSB

When my youngest son was born in Denver, CO, we applied for his SSN through the hospital and received said a few weeks after he was born, but received no hospital or state issued certificate of birth. Five years later, I enrolled him in elementary school in Aurora, CO, showed my ID, an electric bill as proof of residency, and his shot record from the doctor's office. Two years later, we moved to Arkansas (regrettably) and I had to contact the state of Colorado for a birth certificate for him to enroll in school here, despite having shown them his SS card. The state of Colorado required several documents including a notarized letter from me swearing that I am his mother, a copy of my custody orders from the divorce, and some other forms. The ironic thing to me is that Aurora, CO is chock full of immigrants, both legal and otherwise, but they would prefer the child be in school than that there be proof that the child is a legal citizen. The part of Arkansas I currently live in has a grand total of two Hispanic families, both presumably legal, and they are so afraid that one single student might obtain an education that they aren't entitled to that they were willing to delay my natural born citizen son's attendance, rather than allow a social security card and two years of school records and shot records from Colorado to prove he was entitled to attend. Needless to say, the whole incident proved to me what a mistake I was making in leaving Colorado to return to this hellhole of a state!
 
2012-07-06 08:37:03 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man:
Terribly sorry. Didn't realize that you two were having a private conversation here on this public forum. Please, continue to belittle those members of the population that are younger than you are. I'm sure no one will see you as crotchety at all.


You sound like a whippersnapper.

/Also, you killed Inigo Montoya's father
 
2012-07-06 08:42:08 PM

DancingElkCondor: Good thing Obama is not a Mississippi resident. He would have to show his Birth Certificate to get a state ID to vote....


Now that the Birther conspiracy has all but died, it's time to . . . Damn! It just won't die!
 
2012-07-06 08:45:08 PM

DancingElkCondor: Good thing Obama is not a Mississippi resident. He would have to show his Birth Certificate to get a state ID to vote....


4/10. I want to rate it higher. It's simple, it's clean, it's straightforward, and you even got a bite out of it. But the tone is too flippant, almost like you're sarcastic rather than a true whackaloon. And playing the birther card in a voter ID thread is too tangential, too obvious. Maybe if this was a story about Obama's Justice Department going after Mississippi (as I assume they will), i'd spot you a 6 or 7. Maybe. But as it stands, I can't give you any more than I have. You definitely have potential, though, and I expect to see good things from you in the future.
 
2012-07-06 08:58:12 PM
I simply don't understand why you would want so badly to keep people from voting. Where does all that hate come from?
 
2012-07-06 09:08:40 PM
i don't know i heard circular logic proves the bible and god and whatnot so why can't it work here
 
2012-07-06 09:12:26 PM

Olympic Trolling Judge: DancingElkCondor: Good thing Obama is not a Mississippi resident. He would have to show his Birth Certificate to get a state ID to vote....

4/10. I want to rate it higher. It's simple, it's clean, it's straightforward, and you even got a bite out of it. But the tone is too flippant, almost like you're sarcastic rather than a true whackaloon. And playing the birther card in a voter ID thread is too tangential, too obvious. Maybe if this was a story about Obama's Justice Department going after Mississippi (as I assume they will), i'd spot you a 6 or 7. Maybe. But as it stands, I can't give you any more than I have. You definitely have potential, though, and I expect to see good things from you in the future.


Beautiful.
 
2012-07-06 09:13:48 PM
Why would people be suspicious of Mississippi when it comes to voting rights?

longshotsblues.files.wordpress.com

Oh, right.
 
2012-07-06 09:15:38 PM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


I've mentioned this to you before but since you are stupid, it only makes sense that I need to do this fairly often.

Driver's licenses can be lost or expire.

You're welcome.
 
2012-07-06 09:17:05 PM

someonelse: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Sarsin: forget to send away for your social security card, you're just farked. No drivers license for you.

And likely no school either.

Seriously, you think there is a widespread issue of these people being born at home that have never attended any public school, had even a part time job, or has needed medical care?

If you make it to 18 years old without a Social Security Card, slap your parents in their collective mouths for being complete retards.

You think voter ID laws like this one address a widespread problem in the first place?


People voting for the blue party is a problem for him.
 
2012-07-06 09:27:37 PM
I don't care what excuse you give, if you need something in order to be an alcoholic you should need it to vote. If you can't provide proof of designated driver at the booth, get the hell back to Mexico.
 
2012-07-06 09:29:22 PM
So because people are having a hard time understanding how people get by without ID we need an additional level of government bureaucracy between citizens and their voting rights. Yeah, that sounds like conservatives.
 
2012-07-06 09:30:34 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Raistlin212: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Raistlin212: This will literally be the only thing I've needed an ID for in 5+ years.

Except your access pass, or Common Access Card, is a government issued photo ID that you likely use regularly. You know, to access the base.

The cool thing is that it will also work for voting!

Except it's not a CAC card, it's simply a base access pass. I don't know why I don't have a civilian CAC card, I could probably get one if I asked. I only have a standard consultants base access pass for my current posting. It also does not have my SS# or birthday on it, so I couldn't use it for anything.

You at Whiteman?


I occasionally visit it but my posting is at Leavenworth.
 
2012-07-06 09:31:26 PM
sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net

And it shows!
 
2012-07-06 09:36:32 PM

odinsposse: So because people are having a hard time understanding how people get by without ID we need an additional level of government bureaucracy between citizens and their voting rights. Yeah, that sounds like conservatives.


Hmm . . . An additional level of government bureaucracy between citizens and their voting rights. . . Why does that sound familiar? Oh wait, they tried that from 1956 to 1977.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_State_Sovereignty_Commission
 
2012-07-06 09:36:57 PM
This is pretty useless legislation because Barack Obama would lost in Mississippi even if he were running unopposed.
 
2012-07-06 09:37:33 PM
IDs can be misplaced if not often used. I have an ID - I haven't needed it in months, because I don't drive, drink, or smoke. I think I know where it is, but if I was wrong on election day should I be disenfranchised?

It can also be lost in robberies or fire. Should you be able to deny someone the right to vote by mugging them on election day? Voter intimidation's bad enough as it is; why should you be able to disenfranchise someone by stealing a piece of plastic?
 
2012-07-06 09:40:18 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Except that you have no affirmative right to vote.


Tip your waitstaff, everyone, he'll be here all evening. Try the veal, it's deeee-licious.
 
2012-07-06 09:43:17 PM

birdboy2000: IDs can be misplaced if not often used. I have an ID - I haven't needed it in months, because I don't drive, drink, or smoke. I think I know where it is, but if I was wrong on election day should I be disenfranchised?

It can also be lost in robberies or fire. Should you be able to deny someone the right to vote by mugging them on election day? Voter intimidation's bad enough as it is; why should you be able to disenfranchise someone by stealing a piece of plastic?


I think we stumbled on a way to defeat this idiotic legislation once and all. Somebody get me a boatload of F's and W"s, the e-mails of a bunch of concerned idiots in Mississippi, and the words "Black Panthers plan to steal voter IDs of all whites if Democrats succeed in keeping Obama's voter ID law on the books in November."

America, saved.
 
2012-07-06 09:44:51 PM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


You need to look beyond your own economic and age-based POV. The daily life of the upper class, middle class, and lower class have little in common, and the daily life of an 80-year old, a 35-year old, and an 18-year old have little in common.

Many (though certainly not all) of those without ID are economically lower class. They aren't flying anywhere (and if you cooperate with the TSAs identity verification process, they'll let you through without an ID anyway -- its just a bit of a pain). They likely don't own a car, and aren't going to bother getting a driver's license. If they live in the inner city, a driver's license could be completely pointless. Many don't have a bank account, and would never have reason for a notary public. Even if they did, there are ways around those issues, without a state issued ID. Tobacco and alcohol are purchased by minors every day, so it's not like places enforce those laws very carefully, especially in poorer neighborhoods. And if you have to get around on foot or by bus, chances are you go to the same places to shop all the time. They know you and aren't going to card you for anything. Even filling out an I-9 can be done with much more basic (photo or non-photo) ID, as can cashing their paycheck at the check-cashing places in their neighborhood.

Pretty much everything you think you NEED a state-issued photo ID for, you really don't. And for those things that do want an ID, they often show SNAP EBT cards, Medicaid or insurance cards, library cards, public transit cards, or workplace IDs.

If you are living in poverty on the fringe of society, moving from crisis to crisis, just trying to stay one step ahead, taking the time and money to get a state-issued photo ID isn't at the top of your priority list. And if that's your life, and you took the time to both register to vote and actually cast a ballot, you should get a trophy for carrying out your civic duty, not be disenfranchised by a system that already seems to beat you down at every turn.

The other major groups without state-issued photo IDs are older people and students. Students who don't drive may not have a need for anything other than their student ID, and many older people have no reason to go get a new photo ID once they stop driving. It's just not necessary for them.

Also, people simply misplace their license... or forget to renew it... or have it stolen. These things happen, and replacing your license takes a number of weeks in many states.

Once you start adding up the various groups, it becomes pretty easy to see how estimates like 10% of the electorate (and higher percentages of specific subgroups) could be disenfranchised by these laws. Having worked voter registration drives and GOTV efforts, it astounds me that in a country where such a low percentage of people typically vote, we have people actively fighting to keep those that do show up from actually casting a ballot.
 
2012-07-06 09:51:31 PM

Sarsin: fuhfuhfuh: stewmadness: initiative requires voters to have photograph identification, which they can only obtain if they've got a birth certificate to present

If you don't have a copy of your birth certificate then you are a nobody anyways. Or the President, whichever.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You need a copy of your birth certificate to get a photo ID. So say your parents lost your birth certificate they got from the hospital 18 years ago. You waited until this time to try to get a driver's license. You need to get your birth certificate to apply for a driver's license, but you need a photo ID to get your certificate. The only way you can get the photo ID is to provide a birth certificate.

How does that get resolved normally? Ignoring the whole "Mississippi is a giant bag of dicks" voting thing, if you were in that situation and wanted a driver's license how the hell would you fix that? I'm going outside of the normal Fark snark, I'm just legitimately curious if someone here has navigated that maze in any state.


You need to show your social security card in Virginia. I had this happen. Giant pain in the ass.
 
2012-07-06 09:52:46 PM

zappaisfrank: This is pretty useless legislation because Barack Obama would lost in Mississippi even if he were running unopposed.


This isn't about defeating Obama! Where would you ever get an idea like that?

Oh yeah

"A gaffe is when a politician tells the truth - some obvious truth he isn't supposed to say."
~Michael Kinsley
 
2012-07-06 09:53:33 PM
I think the difference between conservatives and liberals really just boils down to a preference for avoiding type I errors vs. type II errors.

LIberals believe that the right to vote is important enough that we accept that a few people will game the system. Conservatives are willing to accept that a lot of people are disenfranchised in order to make sure no one gets something they don't deserve.
 
2012-07-06 09:54:12 PM
/shamefully stolen and modified, BTW.
 
2012-07-06 10:19:04 PM

Raistlin212: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Raistlin212: This will literally be the only thing I've needed an ID for in 5+ years.

Except your access pass, or Common Access Card, is a government issued photo ID that you likely use regularly. You know, to access the base.

The cool thing is that it will also work for voting!

Except it's not a CAC card, it's simply a base access pass. I don't know why I don't have a civilian CAC card, I could probably get one if I asked. I only have a standard consultants base access pass for my current posting. It also does not have my SS# or birthday on it, so I couldn't use it for anything.


You said card twice. Sorry, it drives me nuts when people say CAC card.
 
2012-07-06 10:25:39 PM
These people without ID or birth certificates are obviously illegal aliens. Deport them all to Mexico.
 
2012-07-06 11:27:32 PM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


Easy

Driving - Many who live in large cities with public transit, old school house wives don't drive so it's not even an issue.
Having a bank account - some people are scared of banks, keep money else where. Also small town affect, if you went to school with the bank manager those kind of ID's are unnecessary.
Having my signature notarized - 36 years and never had to have this done.
Buying alcohol - Live in a small town or a close knit neighborhood and an ID is unneeded
Buying tobacco - See above
Renting things - If you have a lot of friends or close neighbors you don't need to rent anything. I've rented apartments in my town w/o an ID.
Flying - lots of people don't fly for lots of reasons.
Filling out an I-9 to get a job: I never heard of this form, but apparently I filled one out at some point, but independent contractors don't need to fill out a form so you can have a job and not have filled one out.
 
2012-07-07 12:29:45 AM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?


Depending on how you live, you may not need government issued identification.
You don't need a bank account, or to write checks. Paying cash or money order requires no ID.
If you live on land you or your family bought with cash or inherited, no ID necessary.
If you never went to college, applied for a loan, joined the military or traveled overseas, no ID.

All the things people whine about needing identification for in these threads again and again are conveniences, nothing more. People have been living their lives and doing just fine (including voting) since before the republic was formed without ID, and they can still do so - especially if they were born in an era before such bullsh*t was deemed "necessary" - quite well, provided the footprint of their lives is small enough.

As for your "vampire" remark, most of these people probably see voting as a civic duty, even more than others who profess they want to preserve the "sanctity" of the system as they disenfranchise those who don't vote their way. A most wicked form of cowardice this is, from a party which is so chickensh*t to compete and win on their ideas and policies that they must cheat.
 
2012-07-07 12:37:54 AM
More Koch brothers-sponsored fascism. An no one cares.
 
2012-07-07 12:41:12 AM
Acceptable forms of identification include:

A current and valid Mississippi driver's license;
A current and valid ID card issued by a branch, department, agency or entity of the State of Mississippi;
A current and valid United States passport;
A current and valid employee ID card containing a photograph of the voter and issued by any branch, department, agency or entity of the United States government, the State of Mississippi, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of the State;
A current and valid Mississippi firearms license to carry a pistol or revolver;
A United States military I.D.;
A valid tribal photo ID; or,
A student photo ID issued by a Mississippi university, college, or community college.

If you have none of this... as a final resort they are offering a free voter ID... well advertized... months in advance, and transportation to the voting booth. Contact numbers... resources...http://www.msvoterid.ms.gov/ Why not try that?

Prolly easier to complain to the press about being a victim. Right?

And because an old requirement, Photo ID for a replacement birth certificate, clashes with a new requirement, birth certificate as for the new, free Voter ID... everyone is "Herp Derp same old Mississippi!" Amazing. I guess no one here has ever had to deal with a bureaucracy in "wherever you are from." How lucky you are to live in a city, county or state where everything runs like a well made Swiss watch!

I had way more trouble getting a DL, registration and insurance when I moved to Florida. Yet somehow I managed to do it.
 
2012-07-07 12:46:37 AM

zamboni: And because an old requirement, Photo ID for a replacement birth certificate, clashes with a new requirement, birth certificate as for the new, free Voter ID... everyone is "Herp Derp same old Mississippi!" Amazing. I guess no one here has ever had to deal with a bureaucracy in "wherever you are from." How lucky you are to live in a city, county or state where everything runs like a well made Swiss watch!


I've been to Mississippi. And after spending some time there, one can easily understand why Louisiana and Tennessee look to Mississippi when it wants to feel better about themselves.

Bureaucracy is the least of your worries.
 
2012-07-07 12:47:49 AM
gingerjet:
Let's assume you're this theoretical guy:

From Tennesse it appears you have alternatives:

Two items from the following list:
Current pay stub or W2
No job
Vehicle registration with name and current address No car
Voter Registration card lost card
Military Discharge (DD214) Never joined military -or- lost papers
Utility Bill, Bank Statement or deposit slip with name and current address Homeless or utilities not in their name or no bank account
Health care coverage card no insurance
Medical record like anyone is going to carry that, least of all a homeless person
Application page of an insurance policy No. Try again.
Signed Social Security Card Nope, gone long ago
For those person who have had their I.D. stolen, a copy a police report or other official documents which support the theft like Joe Streetguy is going to stumble into a police station and ask them to invstigate some other homeless guy that stole their stuff.

/getting a birth certificate is 8 bucks in Tennessee. So poll tax!
Yes it is.

Yet the homeless guy is still a citizen over the age of 18 and therefore entitled to vote. Why are the republicans trying to stop him from doing so?
 
2012-07-07 12:51:05 AM

rewind2846: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

Depending on how you live, you may not need government issued identification.
You don't need a bank account, or to write checks. Paying cash or money order requires no ID.
If you live on land you or your family bought with cash or inherited, no ID necessary.
If you never went to college, applied for a loan, joined the military or traveled overseas, no ID.

All the things people whine about needing identification for in these threads again and again are conveniences, nothing more. People have been living their lives and doing just fine (including voting) since before the republic was formed without ID, and they can still do so - especially if they were born in an era before such bullsh*t was deemed "necessary" - quite well, provided the footprint of their lives is small enough.

As for your "vampire" remark, most of these people probably see voting as a civic duty, even more than others who profess they want to preserve the "sanctity" of the system as they disenfranchise those who don't vote their way. A most wicked form of cowardice this is, from a party which is so chickensh*t to compete and win on their ideas and policies that they must cheat.


Name one person who has never needed an ID and for whom it is impossible to acquire one. The situation is completely implausible. If you can get down to the voting booth, you can get down to the DMV and get an ID (in every state I've ever been in, it's been possible to acquire an ID-only license with no test and no fee). These people you describe that have never had jobs don't even need to take a day off.
 
2012-07-07 12:54:22 AM

rewind2846: gingerjet:
Let's assume you're this theoretical guy:

From Tennesse it appears you have alternatives:

Two items from the following list:
Current pay stub or W2 No job
Vehicle registration with name and current address No car
Voter Registration card lost card
Military Discharge (DD214) Never joined military -or- lost papers
Utility Bill, Bank Statement or deposit slip with name and current address Homeless or utilities not in their name or no bank account
Health care coverage card no insurance
Medical record like anyone is going to carry that, least of all a homeless person
Application page of an insurance policy No. Try again.
Signed Social Security Card Nope, gone long ago
For those person who have had their I.D. stolen, a copy a police report or other official documents which support the theft like Joe Streetguy is going to stumble into a police station and ask them to invstigate some other homeless guy that stole their stuff.

/getting a birth certificate is 8 bucks in Tennessee. So poll tax!
Yes it is.

Yet the homeless guy is still a citizen over the age of 18 and therefore entitled to vote. Why are the republicans trying to stop him from doing so?


What you're saying is: "if someone manages to lose every single document issued to them by the government, it may be difficult for them to regain corroborative paperwork." Well, yeah, no kidding -- at some point you have to start keeping up with your homework, or it may cause you trouble down the line. I don't see the issue with this person having to go through a little trouble after they managed to "lose" all of these documents.

Should they not be stopped from driving without a license? What if they, you know, "lost" it? Poor guy, it's too much trouble to keep up with stuff like that... give me a break.
 
2012-07-07 01:03:39 AM

rewind2846:
Yet the homeless guy is still a citizen over the age of 18 and therefore entitled to vote. Why are the republicans trying to stop him from doing so?


Uh... because he's not going to vote for them. Come on, that's basic Voter Suppression 101 stuff..

On a TOTALLY UNRELATED note, I think we should have a 'show your grandparents how much you love them' weekend in mid-October. Everybody should take the opportunity to take their grandparents to a nice lunch, see how thery're doing, and remind them that the family doesn't want them driving any more, so you're going to take their license -- and passport, birth records, and other documents -- for safe keeping.

/ The law of unintended consequences can be a bi-atch.
 
2012-07-07 01:16:28 AM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?


The ones who are old enough to remember when Americans considered "Papers, please" to be a hallmark of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and other tyrannical states?
 
2012-07-07 01:24:31 AM
Can we just start eating these people now?
 
2012-07-07 01:53:03 AM

cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?


And why the fark should it be impossible to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT without jumping through flaming GOP hoops?
 
2012-07-07 02:28:29 AM

vudutek: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

And why the fark should it be impossible to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT without jumping through flaming GOP hoops?


GOPers have admitted they WANT to suppress voting.

Link

Link
 
2012-07-07 03:04:15 AM

zamboni: Prolly


Anyone that uses this "word" in a serious context has already lost the argument.
 
2012-07-07 03:24:45 AM
This goes deeper than just voting - this is a recipe to create stateless persons or citizens of no country.
 
2012-07-07 05:40:16 AM

Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.



You can drive without an ID. Nothing prevents you. There's a significant penalty if you get caught doing it, but if you['re a good driver the odds are low.

Although it is technically required, I've never been carded when buying alcohol. It's probably because I don't look 18 anymore. I don't buy tobacco but I'd imagine the same applies. Again the only problem is if you get caught - not having an ID with you will not hinder your booze/cig purchases 90% of the time.

Same again for the notary - especially if he/she is a friend of yours.

Amazingly, you can live your life without a bank account.

Not everyone needs to fly.

The I-9 is, once again, technically required and any reputable business will have their paperwork in order. However, like all the above examples, just because you're supposed to show ID and they're supposed to verify and record it doesn't mean it's done completely by the books.


Now the crux of why this argument is B.S. : None of these activities is a constitutional right. Saying requiring ID for doing something that is not constitutionally guaranteed makes it acceptable to require ID for something that is is the pinnacle of stupidity.

Please show your ID and submit the appropriate paperwork to Fark.com for their records before exercising your first amendment rights to post your opinions in public, citizen.
=Smidge=
 
2012-07-07 06:27:22 AM
Getting a birth certificate from Mississippi is already a pain in the ass. My dad was born in Mississippi, and about a year and a half ago, he had to get another birth certificate (the previous one being lost). To get a Mississippi birth certificate, you have three options, A: Fill out a form and mail the form in along with a fee and wait weeks for them to process the request and mail it back to you. B: Order it online through a private company that charges something around $50 but at least they get it to you in a few days. Or C: Drive to Jackson, MS and pay in person and you may (yes, MAY) get the copy the same trip you pay for it, otherwise, you have to wait 7 - 10 days. Note, the one office in Jackson is the only place you can get a birth certificate in person.

For comparison, when I had to get a copy of my birth certificate in Alabama, all I had to do was go to the local Dept. of Health office, pay a small fee, and I got the certificate within minutes.

Mississippi's system is already prohibitive as it is. Requiring photo ID on top of all that is just being dickish.

I haven't been able to find any information yet (with a cursory googling) on what Mississippi requires to get the free Voter ID (available should you lack the other forms of ID). I'm not going to be surprised if a birth certificate is required, though.
 
2012-07-07 06:31:01 AM
Fark. Just noticed the article says the voter ID needs a birth certificate. Yeah, that's a poll tax.
 
2012-07-07 08:09:33 AM

Smidge204: Cataholic: Smidge204: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

The times I needed a photo ID are very few and far between. A better question is what the hell are YOU doing that constantly requires you to identify yourself?
=Smidge=

Driving
Having a bank account
Having my signature notarized
Buying alcohol
Buying tobacco
Renting things
Flying
Filling out an I-9 to get a job


People without IDs are somehow not doing any of this stuff.


You can drive without an ID. Nothing prevents you. There's a significant penalty if you get caught doing it, but if you['re a good driver the odds are low.

Although it is technically required, I've never been carded when buying alcohol. It's probably because I don't look 18 anymore. I don't buy tobacco but I'd imagine the same applies. Again the only problem is if you get caught - not having an ID with you will not hinder your booze/cig purchases 90% of the time.

Same again for the notary - especially if he/she is a friend of yours.

Amazingly, you can live your life without a bank account.

Not everyone needs to fly.

The I-9 is, once again, technically required and any reputable business will have their paperwork in order. However, like all the above examples, just because you're supposed to show ID and they're supposed to verify and record it doesn't mean it's done completely by the books.


Now the crux of why this argument is B.S. : None of these activities is a constitutional right. Saying requiring ID for doing something that is not constitutionally guaranteed makes it acceptable to require ID for something that is is the pinnacle of stupidity.

Please show your ID and submit the appropriate paperwork to Fark.com for their records before exercising your first amendment rights to post your opinions in public, citizen.
=Smidge=


Interstate travel is a constitutionally protected right, there is actually case law on the issue, ruled on by the supreme court. For residents of Hawaii for example, that effectively requires access to air travel. It has always been my opinion that they would be the best way to eliminate the abortion that is the TSA. Get some one in Hawaii to challenge it on constitutional grounds.

Next point. The requirement for photo ID to get a birth certificate is almost undoubtably not codified in state law. It is most likely just an administrative requirement implimented by the head of the agency that issues birth certificates in Mississippi. Fixing this problem will just require a freakin memo! Fix the problem and move on.

Finally, one interesting point,Tom Perez is the current Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, the man who will be leading the fight against this law. He was previously the head of the Maryland Department of Labor. While he was the head of the agency he implimented a requirement that all visitors to the department must present a government issued photo ID and be subject to search in order to be granted access to the building.
 
2012-07-07 09:08:23 AM
Pants-shiatting fear of brown people. All brown people, including (especially) citizens who have every right to vote.

This Is Your Modern Republican Nazi Party.
 
2012-07-07 09:42:22 AM

nyseattitude: Cubansaltyballs: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

And what makes them all want to come out into the daylight on election day?

Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?

And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?

It is a systematic way to disenfranchise voters (elderly, the youth and minorities) who statistically vote Democrat. Nothing more, nothing less.


Meanwhile, in reality, it's pretty f*cking absurd that it takes ID to purchase alcohol, buy a gun, get a drivers license, *but not to vote*. An action which can have repercussions far beyond any actions taken while drunk, far beyond any shooting spree, etc.

Calling it disenfranchisement is nothing more than a silly appeal to emotion. There is nothing wrong with requiring ID as long as it's both free to obtain, and the law isn't set up in a completely broken way (like it is here).
 
2012-07-07 09:55:31 AM

Karac: cchris_39: Who are these people who manage to get through life without identification and how do they do it?

The elderly. They don't drive and no one cards them for alcohol or cigs. Or car-less inner city youths without cardable vices.

Cubansaltyballs: Who are all these people that need to show ID all the time?

Drunks.

Cubansaltyballs: And what makes them all want to force everyone else to show ID all the time?

They don't like the idea of someone being able to vote other than for a straight republican ticket.


Straight Republican ticket? In Indiana, there's a voter ID law (of which you liberal Farktards clearly know about) but somehow President Obama (D) managed to carry the state in 2008 AND Governor Daniels (R) was re-elected.

Help me here, with you clearly being a Fark liberal, spewing all this "can't vote liberal if you have a picture ID" shiat, how did this abomination happen? I mean, it goes against every farking libtard talking point on the subject.

Since this happened, it renders all of your spew on the voter ID talking points moot. End of discussion.
 
2012-07-07 09:57:56 AM

Tumunga: I mean, it goes against every farking libtard talking point on the subject.


Dude, as a liberal that contradicts pretty much all of your derp? Go fark yourself. Jesus.
 
2012-07-07 10:11:08 AM
The only thong worse than my state disenfranchising voters illegally is that we beat farking Mississippi to it.
 
2012-07-07 10:11:50 AM
Goddammit. I typed THING, not THONG.
 
2012-07-07 11:54:16 AM

Cubansaltyballs: Haha. I went to high school with the spokeswoman mentioned.

She was a c*nt in high school and she sure seems like a c*nt now.



she and her Republican Freedom lovers are just doing their patriotic duty of disenfranchising alot of folks of representation in our government. its the republican way. its their salute to our "democratic republic"
 
2012-07-07 12:16:28 PM
My girlfriend (at the time) lost all of her personal documents during repeated moves. Took us a good couple weeks to piece together all the documents to get her a birth certificate again, a couple days waiting in line at various government offices, etc. And we were a middle class couple with lots of time (getting ready to move again) and money to throw at the problem.

For my part, in a couple states, I've discovered that a US passport and another state's driver's licence are insufficient documentation to establish your identity to get a driver's license.
 
2012-07-07 12:52:31 PM

Aexia: For my part, in a couple states, I've discovered that a US passport and another state's driver's licence are insufficient documentation to establish your identity to get a driver's license.


What else did you need? I'd imagine some sort of utility bill or insurance bill to show that you are now actually residing in that state? Was the other ID enough to prove identity, just not that you had actually moved, or was the ID not enough to prove that you were who you claimed?
 
2012-07-07 12:53:21 PM
i512.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-07 01:49:29 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Aexia: For my part, in a couple states, I've discovered that a US passport and another state's driver's licence are insufficient documentation to establish your identity to get a driver's license.

What else did you need? I'd imagine some sort of utility bill or insurance bill to show that you are now actually residing in that state? Was the other ID enough to prove identity, just not that you had actually moved, or was the ID not enough to prove that you were who you claimed?


Haven't even gotten to establishing residency, though that's usually pretty easy. You also need to have your actual social security card in pretty much every state to establish identity. Which meant another day spent waiting in line at a different gov't office only to discover that my first and middle names were wrong on the card which lead to a two week wait because I couldn't request card more than twice in that time.

At that point, I was pretty much "fark it, i don't need an in-state driver's license to vote". Too much of a hassle and I had already taken too much time off of my job (which was very flexible and cool with me doing errands like this).

Anyone who's transient (Iike I was at the time) and moving around all the time, getting new IDs every time you move is a huge hassle. I had a lot of advantages on my side and it was still a pain. I can't imagine what it's like for someone who can't just take time off of work to go deal with it during the day or has a tight budget or doesn't have a car.
 
2012-07-07 01:57:41 PM
Am... am I from Kenya now?
 
2012-07-07 02:47:09 PM

Aexia: Anyone who's transient (Iike I was at the time) and moving around all the time, getting new IDs every time you move is a huge hassle. I had a lot of advantages on my side and it was still a pain. I can't imagine what it's like for someone who can't just take time off of work to go deal with it during the day or has a tight budget or doesn't have a car.


I imagine someone on a "tight budget" or who "doesn't have a car" wouldn't be "moving around all the time."
 
2012-07-07 02:55:09 PM

Dokushin: I imagine someone on a "tight budget" or who "doesn't have a car" wouldn't be "moving around all the time."


You'd think wrong. Not being able to afford rent means you have to move to a new place. Losing your job means you have to move to a new location to find a new one.

Middle-to-upper class people with a lack of imagination when it comes to poverty is how these laws get passed without much protest.
 
2012-07-07 03:16:40 PM
Not sure if this is still true, but when I applied for my NY state non-driver's ID, I had to provide an additional photo ID to get it issued.

/And I had to fly 55 missions.
//And eat chocolate cotton.
///Jump, Doc!!!
 
2012-07-07 03:42:27 PM

Aexia: Dokushin: I imagine someone on a "tight budget" or who "doesn't have a car" wouldn't be "moving around all the time."

You'd think wrong. Not being able to afford rent means you have to move to a new place. Losing your job means you have to move to a new location to find a new one.

Middle-to-upper class people with a lack of imagination when it comes to poverty is how these laws get passed without much protest.


How would you move without a car? If you can't afford rent where you're at, how are you going to pay rent+deposit (let alone qualify) at some new place, and how is it going to be so much magically cheaper that the expenses of moving don't put it out of your reach? If you've lost your job, why does it make sense to spend money by moving and look for a job, rather than look for one where you're at?

In my experience, people imagine poor people doing all kinds of things that only make sense if you have money, and use those things to justify all manner of crazy ideas.
 
2012-07-07 04:51:11 PM

Kibbler: Pants-shiatting fear of brown people. All brown people, including (especially) citizens who have every right to vote.

This Is Your Modern Republican Nazi Party.


Yep. Went to visit a friend in Gulfport, MS in 2010, several years after I escaped the state (I endured 4 years of high school there), and nothing had changed at all. "The blacks" and "The whites" still treat each other as different species and "mixing" (socializing or working with people who do not share your skin color) is still heavily frowned upon, a tradition passed down from parent to child over many generations. If MS Republicans had their way, everybody darker than a paper bag would be chopping cotton in the fields for the benefit of white, Republican, Christian males (who would either be wealthy plantation owners or Confederate generals).
 
2012-07-07 05:15:54 PM
In Georgia they just impleted the 'Real ID' program this week. It is taking 4+ hours to get a drivers license because you need a passport/birth certificate and 2 utility bills. I'm not sure what happens if you are a housewife and all of the bills are in the name of your husband.
 
2012-07-07 10:57:55 PM

ElQue: zamboni: Prolly

Anyone that uses this "word" in a serious context has already lost the argument.


Just letting my opponents know in how little regard I hold their opinion. ;-0
 
2012-07-08 09:30:58 PM

TsukasaK: Tumunga: I mean, it goes against every farking libtard talking point on the subject.

Dude, as a liberal that contradicts pretty much all of your derp? Go fark yourself. Jesus.


ha ha! So, instead of proving the facts wrong, you get all butthurt with me? Cool. Typical libtard reaction to voter ID illustrations that go against the libtard talking point manual.

I'll say it again.Here are the facts. Voter I.D. required in Indiana. Enough split ticket votes to elect a Democrat Presidential candidate, and a Republican Gubernatorial candidate. Proof that voter I.D. laws to not keep Democrats from being elected, which is the reason you libtards whine your collective asses off, oh, and Bush.

As for the farking myself part, I'll just continue to have your mother, and sister, take care of that for me.
 
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