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(Philly.com)   Voter ID law in Pennsylvania may cut out over 9% of voters who would've just voted Democrat anyway   (articles.philly.com) divider line 87
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2012-07-06 01:54:58 PM
I have always shown my ID when I go to vote. When did this become an issue?
 
2012-07-06 01:55:11 PM
Republicans cant win?

Change the rules.
 
2012-07-06 01:55:53 PM
What, again?

http://www.fark.com/comments/7198309/Even-though-voter-fraud-is-rarer - than-getting-struck-by-lightning-study-shows-new-Voter-ID-laws-in-Penn sylvania-could-disenfranchise-10-of-voting-population-in-that-state
 
2012-07-06 01:56:36 PM
I'm sure PA state courts will have fun biatch-slapping this down too.
 
2012-07-06 01:57:38 PM

trey101: I have always shown my ID when I go to vote. When did this become an issue?


Not everyone can get IDs. The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities are generally hit hard by rules like this.
 
2012-07-06 01:59:52 PM

trey101: I have always shown my ID when I go to vote. When did this become an issue?


It became an issue when they changed the rules about what constitutes a "valid" ID. Many people that believe their ID is valid (and has been in the past), will find themselves unable to cast a vote.
Do you not see a problem with this?
 
2012-07-06 02:00:32 PM
jpdefillippo.com

"Excellent."
 
2012-07-06 02:00:33 PM

trey101: When did this become an issue?


When poll taxes were declared illegal, Rumplestiltskin.
 
2012-07-06 02:00:33 PM

Exception Collection: The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities are generally hit hard by rules like this.


Then why do they have such a hard time demonstrating that voter id laws disenfranchise anyone in court challenges?
 
2012-07-06 02:00:40 PM
Democracy for all, as long as you can afford it.
 
2012-07-06 02:01:22 PM
My wife renewed her license at the Dunmore DMV. The place was packed. Renewals like her were in and out in no time, people wanting IDs were sitting with their numbers in hand waiting.

Typical Republicans, making more government rules as per usual. Now they're on to us carrying our papers.
 
2012-07-06 02:01:51 PM
Rip Van Winkle. fark me.
 
2012-07-06 02:01:57 PM
This is partisan garbage meant to disenfranchise voters. There have been issues in past PA elections, but this new law won't stop people from registering fictitious names, remove dead people from the registry, prevent abuses of absentee ballots, or stop locals from cooking the voter books that everyone must sign in order to vote. Having a photo ID simply prevents one person from voting in the flesh as another person, which has never been an issue before.
 
MFL
2012-07-06 02:02:51 PM
Exception Collection
Not everyone can get IDs. The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities zombies and people who like to vote more than once are generally hit hard by rules like this.
 
2012-07-06 02:05:05 PM

DeltaPunch: This is partisan garbage meant to disenfranchise voters. There have been issues in past PA elections, but this new law won't stop people from registering fictitious names, remove dead people from the registry, prevent abuses of absentee ballots, or stop locals from cooking the voter books that everyone must sign in order to vote. Having a photo ID simply prevents one person from voting in the flesh as another person, which has never been an issue before.


And which can be mostly solved by a small bottle of purple ink (the same method we had the Iraq's use).
 
2012-07-06 02:06:35 PM
We should make it as easy as possible to vote.
 
2012-07-06 02:07:06 PM
The party of small government and less regulation strikes again!!
 
2012-07-06 02:07:19 PM
Don't pretend that, if it was well over 9% of Republican voters this law cut out, you Libs wouldn't be cheering it on.
 
2012-07-06 02:07:23 PM
Zombie voting. This is why we're enacting new legislation that disenfranchises actual voters. Because of zombies. Hopefully ID cards will take out the sparkly vampires who are voting illegally as well, but I bet the werewolves sneak by if there is no full moon.
 
2012-07-06 02:08:15 PM
If they keep passing this law once a day, the courts will never get them all thrown out by November.
 
2012-07-06 02:08:34 PM
I am politically to the left of Mao Tse Tung but i think you ought to have to prove who you say you are before you vote...
 
2012-07-06 02:09:18 PM

Wyalt Derp: Don't pretend that, if it was well over 9% of Republican voters this law cut out, you Libs wouldn't be cheering it on.


When that actually happens feel free to point out the hypocrisy instead of imagining it. For now you'll just to be content knowing that only Republicans are big enough cowards to try and cut people out of the voting process.
 
2012-07-06 02:09:47 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Exception Collection: The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities are generally hit hard by rules like this.

Then why do they have such a hard time demonstrating that voter id laws disenfranchise anyone in court challenges?


You're going with "hard to prove disenfranchised voters"?

I'll counter with Republican politician revealing the true reason the GOP Gov signed the law in: "Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done".

And no proof AT ALL of any election fraud anywhere in the state of PA, and real-life examples of people finding it hard to get ID.

You're going with "hard to prove there's hardship"? How about "impossible to prove there's a reason, apart from the one the GOP openly admitted to (where we have the person saying it, the location, and the date and time it was said)"?

Yeah, yeah. Both sides are bad, etc.
 
2012-07-06 02:10:13 PM

Wyalt Derp: Don't pretend that, if it was well over 9% of Republican voters this law cut out, you Libs wouldn't be cheering it on.


LOL

Don't pretend that, if your aunt had balls, she wouldn't be your uncle.
 
2012-07-06 02:10:20 PM

MFL: Exception Collection
Not everyone can get IDs. The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities zombies and people who like to vote more than once are generally hit hard by rules like this.


Just curious - can you give me the rundown of how you got/last renewed your license/ID card? Surely there are no potential obstacles relating to economic status, age or race, even from your specific examples, yes?
 
2012-07-06 02:10:39 PM

Esquire: I am politically to the left of Mao Tse Tung but i think you ought to have to prove who you say you are before you vote...


That's why you register.
 
2012-07-06 02:10:48 PM

MFL: Exception Collection
Not everyone can get IDs. The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities zombies and people who like to vote more than once are generally hit hard by rules like this.


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Someone can call into a radio show or say on the stump that "I heard from my friend Bill that his cousin John knew a woman named Sally who saw a Black Panther vote twice!!!" with absolutely no outside verification, and there's a certain segment of the population that eats it up like gospel truth representative of some supposedly-epidemic problem that rational people know doesn't exist period--not "doesn't exist on a large scale", but "doesn't exist, period".

But it has been demonstrably, unmistakably proven, countless times, that old people, minorities, and poor people, whose only crimes are that they are old, minority and poor, have a much more difficult time getting a photo ID that other Americans and, in turn, have a much more difficult time exercising their constitutional rights to vote in places these insane laws are enacted--and yet some people just don't care.

The only possible explanations for someone (read, you) being among those who don't care, are that you are either A) completely unable to compare reality to stump-speech bullshiat and figure out which is more impacting; or, B) willfully ignoring the truth in this matter. In either case, you--and those like you--don't deserve to be taken seriously.

In short, again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2012-07-06 02:10:48 PM

Soup4Bonnie: Zombie voting. This is why we're enacting new legislation that disenfranchises actual voters. Because of zombies. Hopefully ID cards will take out the sparkly vampires who are voting illegally as well, but I bet the werewolves sneak by if there is no full moon.


You've obviously never voted in Chicago. And I'm sure the Philadelphia machine is just as effective, although quieter.
 
2012-07-06 02:11:45 PM

trey101: I have always shown my ID when I go to vote. When did this become an issue?


I've never shown an ID to vote. I registered, they verified me, and when I go to the polls, all they check is that my signature matches.
 
2012-07-06 02:13:11 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Soup4Bonnie: Zombie voting. This is why we're enacting new legislation that disenfranchises actual voters. Because of zombies. Hopefully ID cards will take out the sparkly vampires who are voting illegally as well, but I bet the werewolves sneak by if there is no full moon.

You've obviously never voted in Chicago. And I'm sure the Philadelphia machine is just as effective, although quieter.


So you're admitting this is stuff all from your own imagination.

i149.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-06 02:14:28 PM
Last I checked you need a valid id for most things. I've never been to a bank that lets you open an account without one as an example.
 
2012-07-06 02:14:36 PM
More than 758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania do not have photo identification cards from the state Transportation Department, putting their voting rights at risk in the November election, according to data released Tuesday by state election officials.

[snip]

The new numbers, based on a comparison of voter registration rolls with PennDot ID databases, shows the potential problem is much bigger, particularly in Philadelphia, where 186,830 registered voters - 18 percent of the city's total registration - do not have PennDot ID.


So what they're saying is, "We have no independent record of the legitimate existence of 758,000 people claiming eligibility to vote". That's kind of the point of demanding ID: prove that you exist and that you're eligible.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-06 02:14:42 PM

Esquire: I am politically to the left of Mao Tse Tung but i think you ought to have to prove who you say you are before you vote...


In theory, I agree with you. But here's the thing: for all the nonsense and shrieking about how voter ID laws are necessary, a statistically insignificant number of people have ever illegally voted, at least using methods that these laws would prevent. So, okay, prove to me that these laws are needed--show me verifiable evidence of voter fraud on a large stage that would be prevented by stricter ID laws--and I'll come over to your side, maybe. But for now, voter ID laws are all about a problem that maybe-might-someday-possibly-could happen, and not one that is now, or ever has been, a problem. That's pretty shaky ground to start jerking around someone's constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
 
2012-07-06 02:15:31 PM
New sister law to be passed with voter ID law:

People with two houses cannot vote until they fill out paperwork at the DMV asserting which house is their primary residence.

If you have a house in two states then you need state #1 (primary residence) to get confirmation from state #2 (secondary residence) that you are in fact voting in state #1.
You must do this in person.
There will be 1 person working this line (a government employee so bring a book).
Paperwork will take 6 weeks to process.
Any errors in the paperwork will trigger a rejection that will require to process to begin again.
A house owned jointly requires both parties to complete paperwork.

Phase two of this law will consist of public record of all people who own two houses.

We simply cannot tolerate having people who own two houses potentially trying to vote twice.
 
2012-07-06 02:15:48 PM

Esquire: I am politically to the left of Mao Tse Tung but i think you ought to have to prove who you say you are before you vote...


Let's say without this ID everyone gets to vote, but 10 people end up voting under a different name.

And then let's say with the ID law in place there's no fraud, but 10 people who are eligible to vote get barred because they can't afford the ID, don't have the right ID, etc.

Which case is better, in your honest opinion? No qualifiers, just if you had to pick one of the two scenarios above.
 
2012-07-06 02:16:36 PM

Jackpot777: I'll counter with Republican politician revealing the true reason the GOP Gov signed the law in: "Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done".


Yes, by stopping voter fraud, what do you think he means?

Jackpot777: You're going with "hard to prove there's hardship"? How about "impossible to prove there's a reason, apart from the one the GOP openly admitted to (where we have the person saying it, the location, and the date and time it was said)"?


The reason is that it is 2012, photo id's are the least acceptable security measure for almost everything.
 
2012-07-06 02:16:40 PM

Galloping Galoshes: You've obviously never voted in Chicago. And I'm sure the Philadelphia machine is just as effective, although quieter.


And I'm sure that a decades old yarn about the dead voting in Chicago comes with a citation.
 
2012-07-06 02:16:53 PM

Exception Collection: trey101: I have always shown my ID when I go to vote. When did this become an issue?

Not everyone can get IDs. The poor, seniors and (citizen) minorities are generally hit hard by rules like this.


I just don't understand how people CAN'T get IDs. Seems like a lot of WON'T to me. How to they purchase alcohol? Cigarettes? Cash a check?

Propain_az
 
2012-07-06 02:17:00 PM

Soup4Bonnie: That's why you register.


The Motor Voter Act, passed several Democratic Congresses ago, makes that extremely easy.

CalvinMorallis: old people, minorities, and poor people, whose only crimes are that they are old, minority and poor, have a much more difficult time getting a photo ID that other Americans


Baloney. It's just as easy to get a photo ID as registering. Besides, you can vote via mail and skip the whole issue.
 
2012-07-06 02:17:10 PM

Yellow Beard: Last I checked you need a valid id for most things. I've never been to a bank that lets you open an account without one as an example.


Last I checked, banking isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right. It's a service that banks offer us. Just like driving is a service the DMV offers us, and renting videos is a service Blockbuster offers us. In all three cases, you're not talking about constitutionally granted rights--you're talking about services that individual organizations or industries decide to grant you if you agree to go along with their preconditions.

Voting's not like that, at all. Voting is a right. Getting blu-rays from Blockbuster is not.
 
2012-07-06 02:17:28 PM

odinsposse: Wyalt Derp: Don't pretend that, if it was well over 9% of Republican voters this law cut out, you Libs wouldn't be cheering it on.

When that actually happens feel free to point out the hypocrisy instead of imagining it. For now you'll just to be content knowing that only Republicans are big enough cowards to try and cut people out of the voting process.


Bush v Gore 2000 in Florida. The Democrats sought to throw out every military ballot they possibly could. You want vote suppression, there it is, in spades and way more real that this fake outrage over having to present an ID.
 
2012-07-06 02:18:26 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Then why do they have such a hard time demonstrating that voter id laws disenfranchise anyone in court challenges?


They don't?
 
2012-07-06 02:19:25 PM

Jackpot777: Galloping Galoshes: Soup4Bonnie: Zombie voting. This is why we're enacting new legislation that disenfranchises actual voters. Because of zombies. Hopefully ID cards will take out the sparkly vampires who are voting illegally as well, but I bet the werewolves sneak by if there is no full moon.

You've obviously never voted in Chicago. And I'm sure the Philadelphia machine is just as effective, although quieter.

So you're admitting this is stuff all from your own imagination.

[i149.photobucket.com image 479x359]


Unfortunately the image is blocked at work, although I'm sure it was substantially ironic/dismissive/condescending/abusive. I do have quite the active imagination; however, without the image, I can't imagine what you were trying to say. Can you restate your point?
 
2012-07-06 02:21:29 PM
I don't get. Why doesn't everyone do what we do here in Washington and just mail in the damn ballot? Is a postage stamp considered a poll tax now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, "What's a postage stamp?"
 
2012-07-06 02:22:08 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Soup4Bonnie: That's why you register.

The Motor Voter Act, passed several Democratic Congresses ago, makes that extremely easy.

CalvinMorallis: old people, minorities, and poor people, whose only crimes are that they are old, minority and poor, have a much more difficult time getting a photo ID that other Americans

Baloney. It's just as easy to get a photo ID as registering. Besides, you can vote via mail and skip the whole issue.


You are wrong. In the same way that someone who says "paper is made of Spongebob Squarepants" you are completely wrong. For a poor person, it's not "easy" to take an unpaid day off of work to spend 3 hours at the DMV, or, if said poor person is homeless, to come up with the required paperwork from the city mission (or whatever community organization happens to be in charge of such things) verifying that he or she is, in fact, homeless, and that's why the "address" field on the form is blank.

And what do you say to elderly people for whom even a bi-weekly trip to the grocery store is tiring and potentially hazardous to their health? "Suck it up, grandma, and get in line like the rest of us"?
 
2012-07-06 02:25:01 PM

Yellow Beard: Last I checked you need a valid id for most things. I've never been to a bank that lets you open an account without one as an example.



You've also apparently never met a person who doesn't have a bank account. Why do you think liquor stores cash paychecks?
 
2012-07-06 02:25:50 PM

CalvinMorallis: Yellow Beard: Last I checked you need a valid id for most things. I've never been to a bank that lets you open an account without one as an example.

Last I checked, banking isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right. It's a service that banks offer us. Just like driving is a service the DMV offers us, and renting videos is a service Blockbuster offers us. In all three cases, you're not talking about constitutionally granted rights--you're talking about services that individual organizations or industries decide to grant you if you agree to go along with their preconditions.

Voting's not like that, at all. Voting is a right. Getting blu-rays from Blockbuster is not.


I concede that you are correct about all three being services and not constitutional rights.

I have a constitutionally guaranteed right to possess a firearm. I am required to show a valid, gov issued id to buy one. I agree wholeheartedly with this.

As has been pointed out, you can vote by mail and skip the whole need to show an id to vote. I really cannot see an issue with needing to show an id to vote when you need one for just about every detail of your life.
 
2012-07-06 02:27:10 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Yellow Beard: Last I checked you need a valid id for most things. I've never been to a bank that lets you open an account without one as an example.


You've also apparently never met a person who doesn't have a bank account. Why do you think liquor stores cash paychecks?


I live in Pa. Our liquor stores don't cash checks and ask for id to make a purchase. That id must be gov issued
 
2012-07-06 02:29:54 PM

CalvinMorallis: For a poor person, it's not "easy" to take an unpaid day off of work to spend 3 hours at the DMV


You have to present your employer with ID to get the job in the first place and in order to cash your paychecks or set up a bank account for depositing them.

The fact that the Democrats tie themselves into knots trying to find every possible excuse to oppose this tells me that the system as it exists allows fraud in their favor and they know it.
 
2012-07-06 02:31:18 PM

CalvinMorallis: you are completely wrong


I am rarely completely anything.

You magnify the difficulty. Registration requires effort in and of itself, and is usually accomplished at the very place where ID is issued. Voting requires taking time from work, or standing in the long lines after work. To the elderly" for whom even a bi-weekly trip to the grocery store is tiring and potentially hazardous to their health" I say request a mail-in ballot and avoid an additional "tiring and potentially hazardous" trip to the polls.

Accurate and honest elections have a value too. Local election officials have a long history of vote rigging and ballot box stuffing, potentially thwarting the preferences of your elderly, minorities, and homeless.
 
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