whidbey: Leeds: But he's way out of his league as a president, and he doesn't seem to have learned enough about the job to warrant anyone thinking that a second term would somehow not be as big a failure as the first.

Still waiting on something other than your opinion to back up the contention that his first term as President is a "failure."

To use a phrase that has evidently been kept from Obama lo these years: It's the economy, Stupid.

I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

Leeds: As for outrage at the auto bailouts, have you even followed that story? This short article dated April 17th pretty much says it all: Link

You are making it pretty obvious.

/2009

Nil Tu Aris: I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

There IS no substance to your posts. You are making vague statements of opinion with nothing backing it up.

/Learn to...aw, fark it.

Nil Tu Aris: I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

Account created: 2012-05-25 11:25:55

Did you just find the internet?

Sabyen91: Leeds: As for outrage at the auto bailouts, have you even followed that story? This short article dated April 17th pretty much says it all: Link

/2009

Oh good catch, that was old news. Here's one from this very week (with updated numbers).

Nil Tu Aris: /I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

If you honestly don't know, there is a box with two quotation marks on top of the post you are looking at. Click it. If you want to have only part of the quote, highlight what you want to quote and click the quote box.

Leeds: Sabyen91: Leeds: As for outrage at the auto bailouts, have you even followed that story? This short article dated April 17th pretty much says it all: Link

/2009

Oh good catch, that was old news. Here's one from this very week (with updated numbers).

Yeah, that was a Fark thread. The one about paper losses versus actual losses.

whidbey: Leeds: But he's way out of his league as a president, and he doesn't seem to have learned enough about the job to warrant anyone thinking that a second term would somehow not be as big a failure as the first.

Still waiting on something other than your opinion to back up the contention that his first term as President is a "failure."

First of all, Obama only killed Osama Bin Laden once. OBL deserved to be killed several times and Obama knew this and failed to do so.

Additionally, Obama only removed our troops from Iraq once. History demanded Obama put our troops back into Iraq several times and remove them several times. Again, he failed at this.

And the crowning turd in the cesspool was Obama's ending of the 15 month combat tour. He did the exact wrong thing. He should have extended combat tours to say 45 months or maybe 15 years. Then we as a nation could have seen our war in Afghanistan fought by 20 or 30 soldiers. 45 max. It might have taken decades to win the war but think of all the contractors we could have hired instead of turning out more combat soldiers.

No, Obama failed his country.

Boudica's War Tampon: First of all, Obama only killed Osama Bin Laden once. OBL deserved to be killed several times and Obama knew this and failed to do so.

How do you know he didn't use his time machine to do it 100 times? You wouldn't know about it but he could have done it.

Nil Tu Aris: I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

Account created: 2012-05-25 11:25:55

Did you just find the internet?

No, but I finally decided to stop lurking. Fark's usually pretty entertaining and I honestly thought that it could (occassionally) involve intelligent debate. Looks like I'll have to try another time.

Boudica's War Tampon: whidbey: Leeds: But he's way out of his league as a president, and he doesn't seem to have learned enough about the job to warrant anyone thinking that a second term would somehow not be as big a failure as the first.

Still waiting on something other than your opinion to back up the contention that his first term as President is a "failure."

First of all, Obama only killed Osama Bin Laden once. OBL deserved to be killed several times and Obama knew this and failed to do so.

Additionally, Obama only removed our troops from Iraq once. History demanded Obama put our troops back into Iraq several times and remove them several times. Again, he failed at this.

And the crowning turd in the cesspool was Obama's ending of the 15 month combat tour. He did the exact wrong thing. He should have extended combat tours to say 45 months or maybe 15 years. Then we as a nation could have seen our war in Afghanistan fought by 20 or 30 soldiers. 45 max. It might have taken decades to win the war but think of all the contractors we could have hired instead of turning out more combat soldiers.

No, Obama failed his country.

I notice you mention things that would have happened even in a trained seal was in the Oval Office. None of those things would have been any different if the better guy had won the last election.

If you want to find something to give Obama credit for, why not say something that he did that the other guy wouldn't have done? The DADT repeal comes to mind.

Nil Tu Aris: Nil Tu Aris: I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

Account created: 2012-05-25 11:25:55

Did you just find the internet?

No, but I finally decided to stop lurking. Fark's usually pretty entertaining and I honestly thought that it could (occassionally) involve intelligent debate. Looks like I'll have to try another time.

Bring some facts rather than nebulous opinions.

Nil Tu Aris: Nil Tu Aris: I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

Account created: 2012-05-25 11:25:55

Did you just find the internet?

No, but I finally decided to stop lurking. Fark's usually pretty entertaining and I honestly thought that it could (occasionally) involve intelligent debate. Looks like I'll have to try another time.

Don't let the belligerent union thugs get you down. Every now and then one of them has an interesting thought or point.

And don't be afraid to ask about site features. We were all new here once.

Leeds: If you want to find something to give Obama credit for, why not say something that he did that the other guy wouldn't have done? The DADT repeal comes to mind.

Even more obvious.

Healthcare Reform
OBL
Libya
DADT (which you mentioned)
Dodd-Frank (it's a start)
CFPB
Expanded CHIP
Credit Card Reform (don't know, McCain might have signed this)
Raised fuel economy standards
Expanded loans to small businesses

/Just to name a few.

mrshowrules: Leeds: He completely ignored the economy and spent all of his time, effort, favors and good graces to get healthcare to every American

You think very carefully about what you just wrote.

Here is some wiki to help you.

The U.S. Census Bureau reported that 49.9 million residents, 16.3% of the population, were uninsured in 2010 (up from 49.0 million residents, 16.1% of the population, in 2009).[1][2] According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the United States spent more on health care per capita ($7,146), and more on health care as percentage of its GDP (15.2%), than any other nation in 2008

That's an interesting fact. But as you likely know, it's not relevant to the discussion.

If you can find numbers that talk about how much the Government spent per uninsured person and also the cost to the government now that it's going to pick up the tab for that healthcare I'd be grateful to see them. But as you know, the numbers you posted are a red herring at best.

Nil Tu Aris: No, but I finally decided to stop lurking. Fark's usually pretty entertaining and I honestly thought that it could (occassionally) involve intelligent debate. Looks like I'll have to try another time.

If you are looking for uniformed conjecture, hate of the government and all things Obama and general stupidity, you should try here.

Its a favorite of mine, usually can get the talking points there before Fark Cons write them here.

Glad to help!

/Vote Republican

Leeds: Boudica's War Tampon: whidbey: Leeds: But he's way out of his league as a president, and he doesn't seem to have learned enough about the job to warrant anyone thinking that a second term would somehow not be as big a failure as the first.

Still waiting on something other than your opinion to back up the contention that his first term as President is a "failure."

First of all, Obama only killed Osama Bin Laden once. OBL deserved to be killed several times and Obama knew this and failed to do so.

Additionally, Obama only removed our troops from Iraq once. History demanded Obama put our troops back into Iraq several times and remove them several times. Again, he failed at this.

And the crowning turd in the cesspool was Obama's ending of the 15 month combat tour. He did the exact wrong thing. He should have extended combat tours to say 45 months or maybe 15 years. Then we as a nation could have seen our war in Afghanistan fought by 20 or 30 soldiers. 45 max. It might have taken decades to win the war but think of all the contractors we could have hired instead of turning out more combat soldiers.

No, Obama failed his country.

I notice you mention things that would have happened even in a trained seal was in the Oval Office. None of those things would have been any different if the better guy had won the last election.

If you want to find something to give Obama credit for, why not say something that he did that the other guy wouldn't have done? The DADT repeal comes to mind.

I was joking but I would point out that the Bush administration stated they weren't interested in OBL. They did have 8 years to kill him and didn't.

But yeah as someone posted below there are plenty of reasons why this Republican will be voting for Obama. Again.

Sabyen91: Leeds: If you want to find something to give Obama credit for, why not say something that he did that the other guy wouldn't have done? The DADT repeal comes to mind.

Even more obvious.

Healthcare Reform
OBL
Libya
DADT (which you mentioned)
Dodd-Frank (it's a start)
CFPB
Expanded CHIP
Credit Card Reform (don't know, McCain might have signed this)
Raised fuel economy standards
Expanded loans to small businesses

/Just to name a few.

You're listing some of what he did in office. But it's not a list of what he did that the qualified candidate would not have done. Shame on you for trying to spin this crap.

OBL? Cafe Standards?

// Of course you are correct with the Healthcare one. There is no way a fiscally minded person would eschew saving the economy so that they could pass that expansion...

Leeds: Your comment: "He got handed a mess and made the best of it."
My answer: I completely agree that he was handed a mess. And the least he could do would be to put some effort into fixing it. Obama did not take that approach. He completely ignored the economy and spent all of his time, effort, favors and good graces to get healthcare to every American. Heck, I might even grow to love that new expansion of government power, but the truth is that it was NOT the time for it. He failed to do anything to fix the economy and added a very costly social program instead of dealing with the problems at hand. That was a massive failure of leadership.

So Obama wasn't a wizard who could wave his magic wand and fix everything to perfection? Guess what? Many of us understand the position he's in, and still thank our lucky stars we've got someone in office with an even keel and a cool head.

And hey, sh*t costs money. I get the feeling you're going to complain about any social program that has teeth or effectively helps people in need. Let's just put that card on the table. However, your disdain for social programs and need for Obama to have been some kind of fast-track dictator really isn't cutting it.

Your comment: You might also want to name specific names and organizations when referring to "his union buddies"
My answer: It would appear that you were somehow unable to parse the term "UAW" posted above. It's short for "United Auto Workers."

Still waiting for a citation that they are his "union buddies" or that this administration has any such lucrative partnership going on with the UAW or GM. Dishonest attitude is dishonest.

Your comment: So you hate unions, you hate living wages, you're trying to impress us with a bunch of fake outrage about the GM bailout.
My answer: I do hate unions, I was forced to be in one once so perhaps I know them better than you do. For the record, they are rotten to the core.

Well, I'm sure my personal anecdotes trumps yours. Factually, unions provide higher wages and guaranteed benefits over non-union jobs and we need them to provide a bridge between worker and employer, at least until there are no more labor-related issues in our society. Tough luck, pal.

As for the "living wages" part, I have never in any of my 11 years of posting on Fark said or suggested that I oppose the minimum wage laws. But that has nothing to do with unions, and you are the first to even mention unions so perhaps you're just confusing yourself here.

LOL minimum wage!=living wage

You clearly hate the concept of some organization basically forcing the private (and public) sector to pay people something close to what they're worth. This is the real hatred we see of unions.

As for outrage at the auto bailouts, have you even followed that story? This short article dated April 17th pretty much says it all: Link

Honestly, I really don't care. If this is the one strand on which you feel you can just rip the Obama administration apart, you're hardly convincing.

Enjoy the next 4 years of sane leadership under the current administration. :)

Leeds: Sabyen91: Leeds: If you want to find something to give Obama credit for, why not say something that he did that the other guy wouldn't have done? The DADT repeal comes to mind.

Even more obvious.

Healthcare Reform
OBL
Libya
DADT (which you mentioned)
Dodd-Frank (it's a start)
CFPB
Expanded CHIP
Credit Card Reform (don't know, McCain might have signed this)
Raised fuel economy standards
Expanded loans to small businesses

/Just to name a few.

You're listing some of what he did in office. But it's not a list of what he did that the qualified candidate would not have done. Shame on you for trying to spin this crap.

OBL? Cafe Standards?

// Of course you are correct with the Healthcare one. There is no way a fiscally minded person would eschew saving the economy so that they could pass that expansion...

No, I specifically listed things I don't believe McCain would have signed or even bring up. You can argue that he would have done these things.

I believe the high cafe standards would be too anti-business for McCain. As for OBL, McCain explicitly stated that he wouldn't do what Obama ended up doing.

Larry King: "If you were president and knew that bin Laden was in Pakistan, you know where, would you have U.S. forces go in after him?"

John McCain: "Larry, I'm not going to go there and here's why: because Pakistan is a sovereign nation."

Yes Teabaggers, Obama forgot about the economy.

Where is hugram with his facts and graphs when you need him.

US stock markets performance during the Obama Administration...
DOW in 01/20/2009: 7,949.09
DOW in 07/06/2012: 12,772.47
Rate of Return: 62.78%

S&P in 01/20/2009: 805.22
S&P in 07/06/2012: 1,354.68
Rate of Return: 73.36%

NASDAQ in 01/20/2009: 1,440.86
NASDAQ in 07/06/2012: 2,937.33
Rate of Return: 109.77%





Suck it Leeds/Cons

I had to read that twice, because I skipped the word patron, and read it as Obama arm wrestling a bear.

Guess he lost the "Ah ain't doin' SH*T fer you, less'm yew kin kick mah ayuss!" demographic.

bunner: Guess he lost the "Ah ain't doin' SH*T fer you, less'm yew kin kick mah ayuss!" demographic.

Jethro don't cotton to no namby-pamby girly-man.

NateGrey: Yes Teabaggers, Obama forgot about the economy.

Where is hugram with his facts and graphs when you need him.

US stock markets performance during the Obama Administration...
DOW in 01/20/2009: 7,949.09
DOW in 07/06/2012: 12,772.47
Rate of Return: 62.78%

S&P in 01/20/2009: 805.22
S&P in 07/06/2012: 1,354.68
Rate of Return: 73.36%

NASDAQ in 01/20/2009: 1,440.86
NASDAQ in 07/06/2012: 2,937.33
Rate of Return: 109.77%

[assets.democrats.org image 450x330]

[thecentristword.files.wordpress.com image 610x450]

Suck it Leeds/Cons

So here is my Martin Short's impersonation of Leonard Maltin's review of Fark

Parts of Fark political threads I like. Other parts of Fark political threads I don't like at all.

Thank you for clouding the issue with cold hard facts. I was having lots of fun reading this thread then you had to come in here with your fancy learning and your fancy ciphering and completely convince me how right I was to vote for Obama. Thanks for nuthin.

Cafe owner dies hours after President Obama visits

Fartbama kills another job creator. 0bama didnt want to arm wrestle anyone because he had someone else in mind.

NateGrey: Cafe owner dies hours after President Obama visits

Fartbama kills another job creator. 0bama didnt want to arm wrestle anyone because he had someone else in mind.

Jackson Herring: sweetmelissa31: I challenged Mitt Romney to an arm wrestling match for my vote, and he countered with a challenge to pit his horse ballerina against mine.

[i46.tinypic.com image 450x358]

Little does Mitt Romney know, "your" ballerina horse is Konstantin Pavlovich Loshadev, who trained alongside Sarah Jessica Parker under the great Baryshnikov.

Just let me know where I can pick up my new keyboard

whidbey: Leeds: Your comment: "He got handed a mess and made the best of it."
My answer: I completely agree that he was handed a mess. And the least he could do would be to put some effort into fixing it. Obama did not take that approach. He completely ignored the economy and spent all of his time, effort, favors and good graces to get healthcare to every American. Heck, I might even grow to love that new expansion of government power, but the truth is that it was NOT the time for it. He failed to do anything to fix the economy and added a very costly social program instead of dealing with the problems at hand. That was a massive failure of leadership.

So Obama wasn't a wizard who could wave his magic wand and fix everything to perfection? Guess what? Many of us understand the position he's in, and still thank our lucky stars we've got someone in office with an even keel and a cool head.

So his decision to not do anything is one you supported because the actually addressing the issue of the economy would be "hard?" What the hell man, some things in life are worth effort.

And hey, sh*t costs money. I get the feeling you're going to complain about any social program that has teeth or effectively helps people in need. Let's just put that card on the table. However, your disdain for social programs and need for Obama to have been some kind of fast-track dictator really isn't cutting it.

I said it above and I'll say it again, addressing healthcare is an issue that we need to tackle. And I'm not even sure that I hate all of Obamacare. But he rammed it through (Am I the only one in this thread who remembers that biatch pelosi saying that "We have to pass this bill so we can read this bill and see what's in it") even though doing so meant that he did so at the economy's expense. It's not like he didn't know the economy was shiate, he was just too arrogant to care.

Your comment: You might also want to name specific names and organizations when referring to "his union buddies"
My answer: It would appear that you were somehow unable to parse the term "UAW" posted above. It's short for "United Auto Workers."

Still waiting for a citation that they are his "union buddies" or that this administration has any such lucrative partnership going on with the UAW or GM. Dishonest attitude is dishonest.

Your comment: So you hate unions, you hate living wages, you're trying to impress us with a bunch of fake outrage about the GM bailout.
My answer: I do hate unions, I was forced to be in one once so perhaps I know them better than you do. For the record, they are rotten to the core.

Well, I'm sure my personal anecdotes trumps yours. Factually, unions provide higher wages and guaranteed benefits over non-union jobs and we need them to provide a bridge between worker and employer, at least until there are no more labor-related issues in our society. Tough luck, pal.

Settle down on the "pal" crap, you're a flaming liberal intent on hurting my country. I am not your pal.

As for the union issue- are you not aware of the fact that unions are driving all of our manufacturing jobs overseas? Does that not bother you even a little bit?

Enjoy the next 4 years of sane leadership under the current administration. :)

Bullshiate. First off, I have faith that we won't repeat this failed experiment. We need an executive to run the executive branch, not some community organizer who can't seem to focus on the important issues.

The moderate candidate will win. He may not wipe the floor with Obama but he'll win.

ChipNASA: Sabyen91: NateGrey: Cafe owner dies hours after President Obama visits

Fartbama kills another job creator. 0bama didnt want to arm wrestle anyone because he had someone else in mind.

[images.sodahead.com image 340x250]

[j.wigflip.com image 635x419]

Oh my. I hope the other two white women have their life insurance paid up.

Leeds: Settle down on the "pal" crap, you're a flaming liberal intent on hurting my country. I am not your pal.

Its always fun to have a calm rational discussion with a Republican. They are so intelligent and thought provoking. No facts or links needed, its all from the gut.

/Vote Republican

mrshowrules: We can argue about whether or not Obamacare was a good idea or not. That's fine but to suggest that health care is not an economic issue in the US is is really really...I just can't...there are no words...

How again was Obamacare supposed to get people back to work earning money and paying taxes? I simply do not see any link between the need/desire for Obamacare and the unemployment numbers. None.

Leeds: mrshowrules: We can argue about whether or not Obamacare was a good idea or not. That's fine but to suggest that health care is not an economic issue in the US is is really really...I just can't...there are no words...

How again was Obamacare supposed to get people back to work earning money and paying taxes? I simply do not see any link between the need/desire for Obamacare and the unemployment numbers. None.

Business still pays an enormous amount for employee health care costs. Anything the federal government does to remove those costs from business should help companies hire new workers. Unless the companies are headed by a cabal of billionaires who don't want their taxes raised by some secret Muslin socialist communist half-breed French surrendering pooty-tang bastard who is hell bent on destroying...

Leeds: mrshowrules: We can argue about whether or not Obamacare was a good idea or not. That's fine but to suggest that health care is not an economic issue in the US is is really really...I just can't...there are no words...

How again was Obamacare supposed to get people back to work earning money and paying taxes? I simply do not see any link between the need/desire for Obamacare and the unemployment numbers. None.

If you are going to look at it only in relation to unemployment numbers how many more people are insurance companies going to need. How many more nurses and doctors and PA's and office staff are the healthcare industry going to need?

/I don't know but it certainly isn't "none".

Nil Tu Aris: Nil Tu Aris: I don't mind honest debate but you're not meeting the substance of my comment. It's not "recycled generic crap" to suggest that a larger federal government has the potential to stifle private sector job growth. Tell me why I'm wrong on that point.

/I can't find the quote button on my keyboard. Is that an function key?

Account created: 2012-05-25 11:25:55

Did you just find the internet?

No, but I finally decided to stop lurking. Fark's usually pretty entertaining and I honestly thought that it could (occasionally) involve intelligent debate. Looks like I'll have to try another time.

Don't let the belligerent union thugs get you down. Every now and then one of them has an interesting thought or point.

And don't be afraid to ask about site features. We were all new here once.

Got it. Thanks for the pointer. As for the opposition, I've got a lot thicker skin than that. Still, I'd like to hear an intelligent response rather than 'your arguments are crap.'

Boudica's War Tampon: Leeds: mrshowrules: We can argue about whether or not Obamacare was a good idea or not. That's fine but to suggest that health care is not an economic issue in the US is is really really...I just can't...there are no words...

How again was Obamacare supposed to get people back to work earning money and paying taxes? I simply do not see any link between the need/desire for Obamacare and the unemployment numbers. None.

Business still pays an enormous amount for employee health care costs. Anything the federal government does to remove those costs from business should help companies hire new workers. Unless the companies are headed by a cabal of billionaires who don't want their taxes raised by some secret Muslin socialist communist half-breed French surrendering pooty-tang bastard who is hell bent on destroying...

So you're saying that the fact that some businesses might be able to stop offering healthcare in 2014 as a result of Obamacare is proof that he wasn't shirking his duty to fix the economy?

I hope I'm not the first to break this to you, but time is linear.

Leeds: Boudica's War Tampon: Leeds: mrshowrules: We can argue about whether or not Obamacare was a good idea or not. That's fine but to suggest that health care is not an economic issue in the US is is really really...I just can't...there are no words...

How again was Obamacare supposed to get people back to work earning money and paying taxes? I simply do not see any link between the need/desire for Obamacare and the unemployment numbers. None.

Business still pays an enormous amount for employee health care costs. Anything the federal government does to remove those costs from business should help companies hire new workers. Unless the companies are headed by a cabal of billionaires who don't want their taxes raised by some secret Muslin socialist communist half-breed French surrendering pooty-tang bastard who is hell bent on destroying...

So you're saying that the fact that some businesses might be able to stop offering healthcare in 2014 as a result of Obamacare is proof that he wasn't shirking his duty to fix the economy?

I hope I'm not the first to break this to you, but time is linear.

No, I'm saying after decades of Republican stone-walling on health care reform, Obama finally got some serious cost-cutting passed against a Congress whose opposition party leadership refused to allow its members to even attend hearings on health care reform. That's what I'm saying.

Boudica's War Tampon: Leeds: Boudica's War Tampon: Leeds: mrshowrules: We can argue about whether or not Obamacare was a good idea or not. That's fine but to suggest that health care is not an economic issue in the US is is really really...I just can't...there are no words...

How again was Obamacare supposed to get people back to work earning money and paying taxes? I simply do not see any link between the need/desire for Obamacare and the unemployment numbers. None.

Business still pays an enormous amount for employee health care costs. Anything the federal government does to remove those costs from business should help companies hire new workers. Unless the companies are headed by a cabal of billionaires who don't want their taxes raised by some secret Muslin socialist communist half-breed French surrendering pooty-tang bastard who is hell bent on destroying...

So you're saying that the fact that some businesses might be able to stop offering healthcare in 2014 as a result of Obamacare is proof that he wasn't shirking his duty to fix the economy?

I hope I'm not the first to break this to you, but time is linear.

No, I'm saying after decades of Republican stone-walling on health care reform, Obama finally got some serious cost-cutting passed against a Congress whose opposition party leadership refused to allow its members to even attend hearings on health care reform. That's what I'm saying.

I can actually agree with that.

Just don't pretend that he didn't ram that down our throats (again, Pelosi was quite clear that no one was allowed to read it before it was passed) and don't pretend that it was meant to stimulate the economy. At best it was meant to lesson the burden on the economy in the coming decades but it served no purpose in pulling us out of the recession.

Which is why I opposed his decision to flick off the economy and focus on a social issue. It was terrible judgement and the sign of a terrible leader.

Trance750: Boudica's War Tampon: Leeds: Boudica's War Tampon: Leeds: mrshowrules: Obama finally got some serious cost-cutting passed against a Congress whose opposition party leadership refused to allow its members to even attend hearings on health care reform. That's what I'm saying.

Because the Republicans were on the payroll of the insurance companies and looked the other way

I'm told that health care is 40% of the US economy. I dare you to find a single politician in Washington who is not supported in part by that industry.

WhippingBoy: I feel bad for you Americans, I really do. I mean, who are you going to vote for? You're rapidly approaching the Canadian way of "vote for the guy you perceive to be the least incompetent on election day".

I think your best bet is to vote for an inanimate carbon rod come November.

yeah, that's not new.
but you know what? at least we're not Canada

;-p
i kid, i love canada