FARK.com: (7199347) More and more cities are doing "Daily Living Bans" to cut down on the visible presence of homeless persons living in their cities

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		More and more cities are doing "Daily Living Bans" to cut down on the visible presence of homeless persons living in their cities (npr.org)		198
		More: Asinine, National Coalition for the Homeless, portable toilets

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FishyFred		2012-07-06 11:38:47 AM

You don't need to legislate this shiat. Just stop giving them money when they ask for it! If you care about the plight of the homeless, give money to shelters, kitchens, and job/education/welfare programs that cater to them.

And if they keep asking you for money, they are mentally unstable or addicted to drugs and you can't help them anyway.

/has a strict no-giving-money-to-panhandlers policy
//policy does not apply to street performers, musicians, and buskers

SphericalTime		2012-07-06 12:52:49 PM

. . . uh, because banning eating outdoors will somehow magically create indoor places for homeless people to eat? What a dumb idea.

ObscureNameHere		2012-07-06 01:04:40 PM

Help the Homeless: Use a 9mm.

Anything less just leaves them squirming in pain.

LandOfChocolate		2012-07-06 01:05:40 PM

FishyFred: You don't need to legislate this shiat. Just stop giving them money when they ask for it! If you care about the plight of the homeless, give money to shelters, kitchens, and job/education/welfare programs that cater to them.

And if they keep asking you for money, they are mentally unstable or addicted to drugs and you can't help them anyway.

/has a strict no-giving-money-to-panhandlers policy
//policy does not apply to street performers, musicians, and buskers

Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work:

(X ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once

Sticky Hands		2012-07-06 01:06:04 PM

Hey, it works for pigeons and seagulls.
Ever since I saw a PSA on what those feathered little assholes do with the money I give them I haven't handed out another dime.

factoryconnection		2012-07-06 01:07:37 PM

SphericalTime: . . . uh, because banning eating outdoors will somehow magically create indoor places for homeless people to eat? What a dumb idea.

Nutter's statement in this article seems so reasonable, so genuine... but assumes this false dichotomy where allowing feeding in parks and whatever somehow bans indoor food kitchens and whatnot. I get it: nobody wants the homeless in their city, near their homes, near their businesses and tourist attractions. If people are going to serve food to other people, there need to be hygiene and safety regulations.

But seriously, legislating away the rights for organized, charitable organizations to feed hungry people? Ugh.

ComicBookGuy		2012-07-06 01:09:02 PM

How "Christian" of them..

Wadded Beef		2012-07-06 01:11:17 PM

A guy asked me for some change a few weeks back while he was smoking. Not to imply smokers are evil (I'm a former one, myself) but I'm guessing he'd probably do better with people if he wasn't sending the message "guess how I'm going to spend whatever you give me."

/I quit when they were still two bucks a pack. They're what...5 bucks minimum now?

robbiex0r		2012-07-06 01:11:22 PM

13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, 15 as it is written: "The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little."

2 Corinthians 8

Contrabulous Flabtraption		2012-07-06 01:12:15 PM

gshepnyc		2012-07-06 01:12:30 PM

These laws to make life tougher on the people who live outside and have nothing are made for the convenience of people who live inside and have (comparatively) everything. At some point those of us who are well off need to STFU and stop being so dickishly resentful of the poor.

When did we forget the lessons we learn as kids? It's not the poor who think they are entitled to have absolutely everything - it's the well-off. Yeah, you own or rent a nice apartment and you work hard to live well in the city. That doesn't give you control of everything else, too. Be thankful you have a roof and a door and four walls and shut up.

Fano		2012-07-06 01:12:44 PM

Just tell them how to get to Big Rock Candy Mountain.

89 Stick-Up Kid		2012-07-06 01:14:16 PM

I've said all along we should give the bums in Seattle all one way train tickets to California.

kevinatilusa		2012-07-06 01:16:38 PM

SphericalTime: . . . uh, because banning eating outdoors will somehow magically create indoor places for homeless people to eat? What a dumb idea.

The goal isn't to help the homeless. The goal is to turn them into some other city's problem.

ParadisePornoTheater		2012-07-06 01:17:18 PM

Isn't homelessness the new "alternative" lifestyle that they "choose" to follow?

Open your eyes, not your heart.

netcentric		2012-07-06 01:17:36 PM

"When did we forget the lessons we learn as kids?"

You seem to not know wtf you are talking about....
What the hell does 'don't play with matches' and 'never piss on the electric fence'
have to do with nasty homeless people ?

/moran

Raharu		2012-07-06 01:17:43 PM

You can tell the character of a person by how he treats the least in his society.

Dr. Whoof		2012-07-06 01:19:01 PM

Next up, the return of "Tramp Chairs"

a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

indylaw		2012-07-06 01:19:09 PM

ComicBookGuy: How "Christian" of them..

I'm encouraged to see in places like downtown Orlando that the churches are the ones fighting the city on these "don't feel the homeless" laws.

swaxhog		2012-07-06 01:19:21 PM

I'd rather they were on the streets and not opening a soup kitchen in my car while I'm at work.

WizardofToast		2012-07-06 01:20:00 PM

If we ban them enough, they will automatically break the poverty cycle and become successful independence citizens with their own house!

RandomAxe		2012-07-06 01:21:02 PM

Really, no one should be compensated for labor, either. It just trains them to become dependent on compensation.

Frankly, metabolism itself is just slavery. What we need to do is turn the planet over to intelligent robots as soon as is possible and then quietly go extinct. It's the only way.

tudorgurl		2012-07-06 01:21:47 PM

Raharu: You can tell the character of a person by how he treats the least in his society.

Raharu: You can tell the character of a person by how he treats the least in his society.

Raharu: You can tell the character of a person by how he treats the least in his society.

Raharu: You can tell the character of a person by how he treats the least in his society.

/bears repeating, because we've obviously forgotten about this.

Millennium		2012-07-06 01:22:01 PM

The more vocal folks in the vegetarian/vegan community often complain that people are nowadays "cut off" from their food: mostly or completely lacking in knowledge of its provenance or production. I wonder if the same could be said of people being "cut off" from the poor among them through measures such as this?

theguyyousaw		2012-07-06 01:22:20 PM

I support vacation cuts for the super wealthy as part of the "Daily living ban".

gshepnyc		2012-07-06 01:22:21 PM

netcentric: "When did we forget the lessons we learn as kids?"

You seem to not know wtf you are talking about....
What the hell does 'don't play with matches' and 'never piss on the electric fence'
have to do with nasty homeless people ?

/moran

How about be thankful for what you've got, the world does not revolve around you, you can't have your stuff and everyone else's too, be good to people less well-off than yourself, think about others now and then, sharing is not just a nice thing to do it is often necessary, etc.?

Amos Quito		2012-07-06 01:24:49 PM

If you stop feeding them, they'll be forced to eat one another, and the problem will eventually self-correct.

El Brujo		2012-07-06 01:24:51 PM

I just learned about these things in my city called Urban Rest Stops (they are proposing putting one into my neighborhood due to the recent influx of homeless people). There has been one downtown for 10 years now and it is a free place where people in need can use restroom facilities, shower and do laundry. Seems like a very noble/valuable service for those in need.

Also, if you ever want to troll a wildly naive neighborhood forum for the lulz, I recommend myballard.com:

Link

Threads about the homeless drinking beer in the park and other eyesores in this pleasant neighborhood are ripe.

/ballardite

machoprogrammer		2012-07-06 01:26:15 PM

Or, you know, the city could invest in soup kitchens, etc.. and ways to get the homeless off the streets (drug addiction counseling/rehab, job skill training, psychiatric treatment, etc...).

But that would be too much effort. Much easier to say fark you to the poor.

Amos Quito		2012-07-06 01:26:47 PM

Fano: Just tell them how to get to Big Rock Candy Mountain.

images.travelpod.com

I've been there.

That guy who sang the song lied.

S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.		2012-07-06 01:26:56 PM

Wadded Beef: A guy asked me for some change a few weeks back while he was smoking. Not to imply smokers are evil (I'm a former one, myself) but I'm guessing he'd probably do better with people if he wasn't sending the message "guess how I'm going to spend whatever you give me."

/I quit when they were still two bucks a pack. They're what...5 bucks minimum now?

My area, Western Mass., if full of these types. You'd be shocked how many drunks, lazy dreadlocked raver 20 somethings, and deadbeats turn "homeless" when there are free sandwiches and chips in the park, let alone sitting in the middle of the sidewalk panhandling every 15 feet. I didn't see real homeless till I lived in LA, where a guy with a maggot infestation all over his leg is passed out in the street on a 100 degree day with people stepping over him. I think the real issue is the whole "holding warm foods at a consistent safe temperature to prevent food poisoning on city property" thing.

mytdawg		2012-07-06 01:27:22 PM

Back in the day those people were often institutionalized. But the funding for that is long gone. So they put them out on the street. And they wander aimlessly and people try to help them but they aren't particularly well in a lot of instances and there's no place to put them and there's no money for them so what are you going to do.

You are going to make it illegal to be homeless and drop them into the for-profit prison system run by well connected people with political influence that make millions of dollars by incarcerating people for being poor. Because that's the decent thing to do. And we'll charge them for it so they become more indebted to the legal system and we can proceed to profit from their misery for generations and blame them for their obvious lack of willpower and drive. Just as we'll do with people that have gone bankrupt for medical bills, unemployed people that have lost their mortgages and all the other unfortunates that don't meet the "standards" we have set for proper behavior.

Then we can smugly return to our comfy McMansion in safety and security because we've dealt with the problem.

RembrandtQEinstein		2012-07-06 01:27:41 PM

Good, bums are parasites that just make things worse for everyone else.

If you want to have some fun find a dude with a "work for food" sign and offer him minimum wage + a meal to haul brush for 6 hours. And suddenly the floodgates of excuses open as to all the reasons he can't do the work, but could you please give money anyway.

Magorn		2012-07-06 01:27:50 PM

"I believe that people, regardless of their station in life, should be able to actually sit down, at a table, to a meal inside, away ~~from the heat and the cold, the rain and the snow, the vehicle exhaust and all the other distractions of everyday city life~~ the view of the middle-class suburbanites who get upset at being reminded that not everyone is as lucky as they are,"

There, fixed that for Nutter.

My lawyer sense tells me there are some fundamental Constitutional rights (perhaps in the free association area) being infringed by a city ordinance baning the sharing or distribution of food, even I fi an't quite put my finger on them just yet.

RandomAxe		2012-07-06 01:29:33 PM

If you want to have some fun find a dude with a "work for food" sign and offer him minimum wage + a meal to haul brush for 6 hours.

Now you're just being stupid. Besides, minimum wage for six hours doesn't buy a whole lot of food.

ArcadianRefugee		2012-07-06 01:30:04 PM

FishyFred: Just stop giving them money when they ask for it!

Repeat after me: "I ain't giving you no tree-fiddy, you goddam Loch Ness monster! Get your own goddam money!"

farm machine		2012-07-06 01:30:54 PM

S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.: My area, Western Mass., if full of these types. You'd be shocked how many drunks, lazy dreadlocked raver 20 somethings, and deadbeats turn "homeless" when there are free sandwiches and chips in the park, let alone sitting in the middle of the sidewalk panhandling every 15 feet.

Around here we just refer to this as a Phish concert. Same general crowd.

CruJones		2012-07-06 01:31:32 PM

ComicBookGuy: How "Christian" of them..

You do realize the majority of places now offering indoor meals, health care, etc. are churches?

JK47		2012-07-06 01:31:40 PM

Raharu: You can tell the character of a person by how he treats the least in his society.

When I own a home in a city, and during my daily routine I encounter the same dozen or so homeless people while walking to my bus stop, work, the 7-11, the dry cleaner, my gym, the Walgreens, and/or the supermarket getting repeatedly pestered for $5 (which even if I wanted to give them I can't give them every time I see them and having, done that before, they seem to expect money if you gave once), followed around, or cursed at is aggravating. I almost forgot to mention the near farking heart attack I had while taking trash out to the alley at night and a homeless guy (somehow) took up residence under the stairs of my apartment building and asked for a dollar.

Homelessness is a symptom for a number of issues such as substance abuse and mental illness. It should be treated and addressed not ignored. Supporting homeless people doesn't mean opposing these types of laws. In a way these laws are on the right track since it's trying to compel delivery of services to homeless people in an environment more conducive to attaining those objectives. The worst thing we can do for the homeless is to allow them to continue their lifestyle and support it by delivering what little they need (cash and food) in their current environment. That's simply enabling them.

ocschwar		2012-07-06 01:32:38 PM

Then we can smugly return to our comfy McMansion in safety and security because we've dealt with the problem.

And look out the window at the foreclosed house next door.

Whose former owner is now homeless.

And discover the house is now being used as a meth cookery.

netcentric		2012-07-06 01:32:49 PM

gshepnyc: netcentric: "When did we forget the lessons we learn as kids?"

You seem to not know wtf you are talking about....
What the hell does 'don't play with matches' and 'never piss on the electric fence'
have to do with nasty homeless people ?

/moran

How about be thankful for what you've got, the world does not revolve around you, you can't have your stuff and everyone else's too, be good to people less well-off than yourself, think about others now and then, sharing is not just a nice thing to do it is often necessary, etc.?

See, now I just feel bad. I usually berate them and tell them they are lazy, drunks etc...
Most of the time i try not to get too deeply involve with their stories.

Heck, I once took a homeless guys shopping cart just so my kids could play on the dirt hill behind our house.

/he probably stole another cart
//they do that

CruJones		2012-07-06 01:34:36 PM

ArcadianRefugee: FishyFred: Just stop giving them money when they ask for it!

Repeat after me: "I ain't giving you no tree-fiddy, you goddam Loch Ness monster! Get your own goddam money!"

When asked for food money I usually (when not in a hurry) offer to buy them food. 95% of the time my offer is declined. I've also offered a little work in return for money, but have yet to have any takers. However the illegal alien population who ring my doorbell looking for work are always more than happy to do whatever manual labor needs doing.

/mow, edge, pull weeds and make my corner lot look great for $40?
//Yes please

Theaetetus		2012-07-06 01:34:43 PM

Been done already, was held to be unconstitutional: Pottinger v. Miami.

Amos Quito		2012-07-06 01:35:15 PM

ocschwar: Then we can smugly return to our comfy McMansion in safety and security because we've dealt with the problem.

And look out the window at the foreclosed house next door.

Whose former owner is now homeless.

And discover the house is now being used as a meth cookery.

Homes without people for people with no homes!

It's a match made in heaven!

Rent Party		2012-07-06 01:37:08 PM

89 Stick-Up Kid: I've said all along we should give the bums in Seattle all one way train tickets to California.

Seattle is starting to look like Subic Bay. You can't walk three blocks without getting accosted by at least half a dozen beggars. Add in the damn Charity Muggers wanting to shake your hand every half a block, and I'm ready to nuke the place from orbit.

Magorn		2012-07-06 01:37:39 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Good, bums are parasites that just make things worse for everyone else.

If you want to have some fun find a dude with a "work for food" sign and offer him minimum wage + a meal to haul brush for 6 hours. And suddenly the floodgates of excuses open as to all the reasons he can't do the work, but could you please give money anyway.

Funny, that's not been my real world experience (as opposed to your scenario which exists only in your head)

When I moved apts in Chicago, my new one was a 3rd floor walk up. It had been 103 deg the day before when I loaded a moving truck with my GF's stuff in KC and I'd taken 18 hours to get to CHi because of of truck breakdown. Which meant that all my help I'd arranged on the recieving end had gone home. My first trip up the stair and the efforts of the last two days caught up to me and my knees literally buckled twice on the way up. So there I was with a full truck in a narrow alley where it could not stay long, and me almost at the bitter end of my physical strength.

Just then a miracle occured. Two homeless men pushing a shopping cart up the alley, asked if I needed any help. I said yes and asked them how much they wanted, they said "just pay us whatever you think is fair when we're done" and at that proceeded to grab heavy loads and RUN up and down the stairs. In less than an hour they had the whole truck completely empty (they'd seen my knees give again and insisted I just "supervise" while they did the unloading.)

I was so farking greatful to those two I gave them $50 ea for their work and offered to make them dinner (and at the time I had about $500 to my name) they took the money with gratitutde, declined the dinner, opining that I looked exhausted and should get some sleep. When they left, they guy living one floor below snidely mentioned that I probably could have saved money and boght them a case of cheap beer instead. If I'd have had a bit more strength left I think I would have decked him.

mytdawg		2012-07-06 01:37:48 PM

ocschwar: Then we can smugly return to our comfy McMansion in safety and security because we've dealt with the problem.

And look out the window at the foreclosed house next door.

Whose former owner is now homeless.

And discover the house is now being used as a meth cookery.

I can only wish things like that happened to those that helped create this mess. They rarely do.

ocschwar		2012-07-06 01:40:46 PM

Homelessness is a symptom for a number of issues such as substance abuse and mental illness. It should be treated and addressed not ignored.

You have the funds to hospitalize the schizophrenics and addicts?

Great! Go for it.

You don't? Then don't get in the way of the people trying to help these unfortunates stay alive.

OldManDownDRoad		2012-07-06 01:42:11 PM

CruJones: ArcadianRefugee: FishyFred: Just stop giving them money when they ask for it!

Repeat after me: "I ain't giving you no tree-fiddy, you goddam Loch Ness monster! Get your own goddam money!"

When asked for food money I usually (when not in a hurry) offer to buy them food. 95% of the time my offer is declined. I've also offered a little work in return for money, but have yet to have any takers. However the illegal alien population who ring my doorbell looking for work are always more than happy to do whatever manual labor needs doing.

My grandmother had the same rule during the Great Depression, when people often showed up at her door looking for food. Her standing offer was "split enough firewood for tonight's cook fire and you can join us for dinner. Split enough wood for tomorrow and you can sleep in the barn and join us for breakfast."

It was also how she defined these folks -
People who split wood: hobos.
People who refused: bums.

She once mentioned that she never had a black man turn down that offer. Make of that what you will.

Zombie Butler		2012-07-06 01:42:46 PM

Wave of foreclosures= more people needing a place to live - all of those folks who can find any space to crash =more homeless x people who survived the great evictions and still have money enough to talk to politicians getting upset over the increased homeless population trying to get them out of sight = god awful regulation requiring the homeless to eat where they can't be seen.

Protip Even though you can't see them the homeless are there.

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