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(ESPN)   After Jason Kidd goes from Dallas to the Knicks, Jeremy Lin signs with Houston, conforming to the little known "Take a Texan/Leave a Texan" rule   (espn.go.com) divider line 102
    More: Interesting, Jason Kidd, Jeremy Lin, Knicks, Texans, offer sheet, J.A. Adande, Goran Dragic, restricted free agent  
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1211 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 Jul 2012 at 10:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-06 09:13:42 AM  
Yea, Morey. You think he was such an excellent player even though he sat the bench when he was here. Just farking admit the Rockets miss all that Ming merchandise money. He's not coming here anyway. Says right in the article the Knicks are planning on matching the offer. Cause they want that sweet merch money too.
 
2012-07-06 10:37:55 AM  
Ain't gonna happen, Knicks will match.
 
2012-07-06 10:46:07 AM  
Apparently being Asian is an advantage in the NBA. Who knew?
 
2012-07-06 10:51:21 AM  

js34603: Apparently being Asian is an advantage in the NBA. Who knew?


About a billion Chinamen.
 
2012-07-06 10:51:41 AM  
Brandon Roy coming to the T-Wolves.

We will be quite please with the 40 or so games he'll play through numerous injuries until it's time to shut him down for good and eat his contract next year.
 
2012-07-06 10:52:40 AM  

alwaysjaded: Yea, Morey. You think he was such an excellent player even though he sat the bench when he was here. Just farking admit the Rockets miss all that Ming merchandise money. He's not coming here anyway. Says right in the article the Knicks are planning on matching the offer. Cause they want that sweet merch money too.


I actually saw a couple of people in Lin shirts while I was heading to work today. The people are making a statement. Personally I'd hate to see him go, even though I understand the money could be a problem.
 
2012-07-06 10:52:57 AM  

js34603: Apparently being Asian is an advantage in the NBA. Who knew?


Certainly not four-time gold medalist Michael Johnson.
 
2012-07-06 10:55:42 AM  
Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around. I get that Lin isn't the 30 ppg scorer he was those first two weeks, but he certainly proved himself good enough that he's the starter.

And don't tell me Kidd is just about getting another backup to replace Fields, because the free agency pool is just filled with cheap-ass PG's.
 
2012-07-06 11:04:30 AM  

jayhawk88: Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around. I get that Lin isn't the 30 ppg scorer he was those first two weeks, but he certainly proved himself good enough that he's the starter.

And don't tell me Kidd is just about getting another backup to replace Fields, because the free agency pool is just filled with cheap-ass PG's.


Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.
 
2012-07-06 11:05:38 AM  

alwaysjaded: Yea, Morey. You think he was such an excellent player even though he sat the bench when he was here. Just farking admit the Rockets miss all that Ming merchandise money. He's not coming here anyway. Says right in the article the Knicks are planning on matching the offer. Cause they want that sweet merch money too.


SI reported that Houston offered a lulzy contract knowing the Knicks would match, running them deeper into the luxury tax and more revenue sharing.

/like Morey's style
//more than his results
 
2012-07-06 11:10:34 AM  

H31N0US: js34603: Apparently being Asian is an advantage in the NBA. Who knew?

About a billion Chinamen.


The Chinamen are not the issue here dude. Also please, Asian-American is the preferred nomenclature.

/Lin peed on my rug
 
2012-07-06 11:15:49 AM  

redmid17: Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.


Maybe, but Lin's showed a willingness to learn the position and Kidd will help in that matter.
 
2012-07-06 11:20:26 AM  
Doesn't 'Take a Texan, leave a Texan' have something to do with crapping in public toilets?
 
2012-07-06 11:20:59 AM  
The Knicks need to re-sign Lin. Losing him is NOT an option, not now that they're back in the playoffs, albeit just barely.
 
2012-07-06 11:32:43 AM  

jayhawk88: Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around.


..because Dolan
 
2012-07-06 11:33:53 AM  

redmid17: jayhawk88: Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around. I get that Lin isn't the 30 ppg scorer he was those first two weeks, but he certainly proved himself good enough that he's the starter.

And don't tell me Kidd is just about getting another backup to replace Fields, because the free agency pool is just filled with cheap-ass PG's.

Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.


This.
When all of the "Linsanity" was at its peak last year I told people that he would get exposed when teams start throwing people at him like they do with other top guards, and people said I was an idiot.
 
2012-07-06 11:36:46 AM  

regindyn: SI reported that Houston offered a lulzy contract knowing the Knicks would match, running them deeper into the luxury tax and more revenue sharing.


Contract is actually pretty OK for the Knicks. $5ish million for the first couple years, and worst case scenario it's a trade chip as an expiring contract in the "poison pill" year. And even if Jim Dolan cared about luxury tax (he doesn't), the surplus value created by the whole "Linsanity" phenomenon (merch, tv ratings for MSGN, suite sales in renovated MSG, tix sales at higher prices, etc. - have read that it could be an extra $25-50m a year in revenue) probably covers a lot of it (no idea what the tax bill would be though - I've seen some crazy numbers floated for that too).
 
2012-07-06 11:40:12 AM  

The Bestest: jayhawk88: Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around.

..because Dolan


I think it's partly a mentoring thing, partly a "Lin played too many minutes way too quickly last year" thing and partly a "look at the points the Knicks were running out there at the end of the year" thing. Mike Bibby played like 40 minutes of a playoff game. That's... bad.
 
2012-07-06 11:51:55 AM  

ongbok: Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.

This.
When all of the "Linsanity" was at its peak last year I told people that he would get exposed when teams start throwing people at him like they do with other top guards, and people said I was an idiot.


What? So you're going to have Kidd play 30-35 minutes a game? Lin was doing fine even after he got "exposed," if by "exposed" you mean "held to a non-all-star performance".
 
2012-07-06 11:52:33 AM  

jayhawk88: Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around


$3 mil a year is a not a big number for a veteran like Kidd. The Knicks say they intend to keep Lin. Lin needs to improve, the Knicks might think it's a good idea to have a vet like Kidd on the team, either starting (my guess) or coming off the bench to take some pressure off Lin.

If the Knicks do match Houson's offer, I'm not sure what the Rockets are going to do. There isn't much quality out there at that position left in free agency. They might have to try to address that in a trade, whether it involves Howard or not.
 
2012-07-06 11:53:32 AM  

ongbok: redmid17: jayhawk88: Someone is going to have to explain to me why you would give Kidd $3 mil a year if you're planning on keeping Lin around. I get that Lin isn't the 30 ppg scorer he was those first two weeks, but he certainly proved himself good enough that he's the starter.

And don't tell me Kidd is just about getting another backup to replace Fields, because the free agency pool is just filled with cheap-ass PG's.

Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.

This.
When all of the "Linsanity" was at its peak last year I told people that he would get exposed when teams start throwing people at him like they do with other top guards, and people said I was an idiot.


I don't think any of us expected him to keep *that* up. I certainly wasn't, as much as I hoped he would. But I still think the guy has enough skill to be an above-average-if-not-spectacular PG, especially as he gets more experience. That's a massive upgrade over what the Knicks were getting from PG before.
 
2012-07-06 11:55:51 AM  

FireZs: if by "exposed" you mean "held to a non-all-star performance".


Last 15 games:

14.5ppg
39% shooting
6.5 assists
3.9 turns

Those are bad stats. Doesn't even include being abused on the other end of the floor
 
2012-07-06 12:01:45 PM  

js34603: H31N0US: js34603: Apparently being Asian is an advantage in the NBA. Who knew?

About a billion Chinamen.

The Chinamen are not the issue here dude. Also please, Asian-American is the preferred nomenclature.

/Lin peed on my rug


He peed on your farking rug, Dude.
 
2012-07-06 12:04:14 PM  

FireZs: ongbok: Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.

This.
When all of the "Linsanity" was at its peak last year I told people that he would get exposed when teams start throwing people at him like they do with other top guards, and people said I was an idiot.

What? So you're going to have Kidd play 30-35 minutes a game? Lin was doing fine even after he got "exposed," if by "exposed" you mean "held to a non-all-star performance".


Kidd played 30 minutes a game last season and closer to 40 per game in the playoffs, so yeah that could well be the plan. Lin was not doing "fine" toward the end of last season. Lin is the Zoolander of PGs. Ask him to go left and it's pretty much a turnover waiting to happen. He's better finishing at the rim than he is shooting, so letting off the pick n roll or collapsing in the paint makes the smart play taking a mid range jumper which is not his strong suit. His defense is atrocious. He's limited in a lot of respects at this point.
 
2012-07-06 12:06:06 PM  

MugzyBrown: FireZs: if by "exposed" you mean "held to a non-all-star performance".

Last 15 games:

14.5ppg
39% shooting
6.5 assists
3.9 turns

Those are bad stats. Doesn't even include being abused on the other end of the floor


Compared to Jason Kidd:

6.2 ppg
36.3% shooting
5.5 assists
1.9 turns

I'm talking about his stats in the context of people wanting to start Kidd over him. When his worst stats are beating Kidd's for the entire season, that's a little much.
 
2012-07-06 12:08:12 PM  
NY has abused the state of Texas this week in the basketball world.
 
2012-07-06 12:10:04 PM  

MugzyBrown: FireZs: if by "exposed" you mean "held to a non-all-star performance".

Last 15 games:

14.5ppg
39% shooting
6.5 assists
3.9 turns

Those are bad stats. Doesn't even include being abused on the other end of the floor


When a guy who is pretty much a rookie suddenly plays starting minutes every game, in a condensed season, and falters towards the end of the year, that's not surprising at all.

Besides, most of the shooting percentage damage comes from two bad games (5 for 18 and 4 for 17), and the Knicks even managed to win one of those. Oddly, both were against Philly.

There's reason to think Lin's pretty alright.
 
2012-07-06 12:11:38 PM  
I'm not really a NBA fan but man, is this off-season exciting. So many "name" FAs seem to be moving -- Kidd, Williams, Lin*, Nash, and the Dwight Howard Mess is still in play.

I wonder if maybe a team -- cough cough, Suns -- is stockpiling draft picks to make some kind of amazing trade. There's way too much movement right now and traning camp is still 3 months away.


*as overrated as he appears to be
 
2012-07-06 12:15:54 PM  

dallylamma: js34603: H31N0US: js34603: Apparently being Asian is an advantage in the NBA. Who knew?

About a billion Chinamen.

The Chinamen are not the issue here dude. Also please, Asian-American is the preferred nomenclature.

/Lin peed on my rug

He peed on your farking rug, Dude.


James Dolan, fark me! Say what you will about the tenets of Mark Cuban, at least he has an ethos.
 
2012-07-06 12:20:59 PM  

rudemix: Doesn't 'Take a Texan, leave a Texan' have something to do with crapping in public toilets?


No. You're thinking about fat New Mexicans.
 
2012-07-06 12:22:32 PM  

rickythepenguin: I wonder if maybe a team -- cough cough, Suns -- is stockpiling draft picks to make some kind of amazing trade.


What part of the Suns' history makes you think that there's any chance this happens?
 
2012-07-06 12:22:57 PM  
My gut tells me Lin is a flash in the pan. I predict we never hear of him again other than the occasional, "Hey, remember how much money the Knicks/Rockets paid for Lin?"
 
2012-07-06 12:23:07 PM  

redmid17: Kidd played 30 minutes a game last season and closer to 40 per game in the playoffs, so yeah that could well be the plan. Lin was not doing "fine" toward the end of last season. Lin is the Zoolander of PGs. Ask him to go left and it's pretty much a turnover waiting to happen. He's better finishing at the rim than he is shooting, so letting off the pick n roll or collapsing in the paint makes the smart play taking a mid range jumper which is not his strong suit. His defense is atrocious. He's limited in a lot of respects at this point.


That's pretty exaggerated even for sportscenter-inspired memes. Lin can go left and does finish going left. That his left side is weaker than his right is hardly unique to him. As for defense, he averages 1.6 steals and 0.3 blocks a game (he actually blocked derrick rose, but of course since the knicks lost that game, it wasn't mentioned because it didn't fit the storyline), that's obviously not as good as a great PG defender like rondo, with 1.8 steals and 0.1 blocks a game, but it's not that far off.

But the larger point here is that you're advocating relying on a 39 year old with worse stats to limit the minutes of a talented developing young point guard. I don't know how you can justify that.
 
2012-07-06 12:23:58 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: $3 mil a year is a not a big number for a veteran like Kidd. The Knicks say they intend to keep Lin. Lin needs to improve, the Knicks might think it's a good idea to have a vet like Kidd on the team, either starting (my guess) or coming off the bench to take some pressure off Lin.


Kidd was terrible last year though. He's basically Derrick Fisher at this point. It just doesn't really make any sense. The Knicks don't need a 38 year old PG in the process of falling off a cliff to dribble the ball up and pass it to Melo for an iso. They don't need him coming off the bench either; Shumpert's good enough to head up the second team. They do need a PG who can penetrate and get his own shot effectively, to help free up Melo and Amare.
 
2012-07-06 12:25:04 PM  

Dafatone: Besides, most of the shooting percentage damage comes from two bad games (5 for 18 and 4 for 17), and the Knicks even managed to win one of those. Oddly, both were against Philly.


Yeah, I remember those. In the one they won Lin got some key baskets in the 4th quarter and made all 10 of the winning free throws. That's gotta count for something.
 
2012-07-06 12:25:59 PM  

Rwa2play: redmid17: Lin would be better suited coming off the bench. He has a lot of flaws (big ones) that were exposed after the first few weeks of starting.

Maybe, but Lin's showed a willingness to learn the position and Kidd will help in that matter.


Kidd has quite possibly the highest "basketball IQ" of any active player. He sees things on the court that no one else does & will definitely help improve Lin's play.
 
2012-07-06 12:26:26 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: My gut tells me Lin is a flash in the pan. I predict we never hear of him again other than the occasional, "Hey, remember how much money the Knicks/Rockets paid for Lin?"


My gut tells me your gut is racist.
 
2012-07-06 12:29:40 PM  

UNC_Samurai: James Dolan, fark me! Say what you will about the tenets of Mark Cuban, at least he has an ethos.


James Dolan just keeps proving to me that village idiots should never be given any level of responsibility whatsoever.

Seriously, fark him. I hate his guts.
 
2012-07-06 12:31:24 PM  

ongbok: When all of the "Linsanity" was at its peak last year I told people that he would get exposed when teams start throwing people at him like they do with other top guards, and people said I was an idiot.


I think "idiot" wasn't so much that defenses wouldn't adjust, but that the haters expected the conversation was expected to end there. Defenses figured out Lin, but Lin's learning too. He's young, smart and hard-working. His existing weaknesses were figured out in three weeks, but the assumption that Lin would get complacent and not do anything about his inability to go left is what gets people called idiots. You can't fix that sort of weakness in the midst of a brutal regular season so he didn't, but if you think he's not going to do anything about it in the offseason -- his first as a starter -- you don't understand this guy.

redmid17: Lin is the Zoolander of PGs. Ask him to go left and it's pretty much a turnover waiting to happen. He's better finishing at the rim than he is shooting, so letting off the pick n roll or collapsing in the paint makes the smart play taking a mid range jumper which is not his strong suit. His defense is atrocious.


Did you watch the same Lin I did? He makes the jumper if the defense gets lazy and either gives him space or waits under a pick. If the defense collapses on him, he kicks out to the elbow or corner where Novak burns them with a 3. A lot of Lin's assists were Novak 3s, not just passes inside on the pick-and-roll.

And that's the thing about Lin. He's one of those guys whose value isn't just measured in terms of marketing dollars or court stats, but how much better he makes other players. Novak generally has trouble getting open on his own; with Lin on the court he went from being a novelty to a serious offensive threat. Chandler was definitely more active in the paint when he could expect feeds from Lin. Is Lin good enough to get the Knicks a championship? I doubt it, but you could do a lot worse and the team has other serious issues to fix first. That said, I think anyone who believes Lin is already as good as he'll get is, yes, an idiot. He's at his physical peak, but considering he's still learning skill-wise he might evolve into a John Stockton.

His defense isn't great, but it's improving and he's generally not on the other team's #1 guard anyway. Iman Shumpert is the Knicks' guard killer; if his knee injury doesn't cripple him they can afford to keep Lin on the court.
 
2012-07-06 12:32:25 PM  

FireZs: Contrabulous Flabtraption: My gut tells me Lin is a flash in the pan. I predict we never hear of him again other than the occasional, "Hey, remember how much money the Knicks/Rockets paid for Lin?"

My gut tells me your gut is racist.


Your gut is grasping at straws, Dood. And you're probably *checks profile* oops, my bad. Definitely a Knicks homer.
 
2012-07-06 12:38:19 PM  

FireZs: (he actually blocked derrick rose, but of course since the knicks lost that game, it wasn't mentioned because it didn't fit the storyline)


MY GOD HE BLOCKED A PG? AMAZING
 
2012-07-06 12:48:05 PM  

FireZs: Contrabulous Flabtraption: My gut tells me Lin is a flash in the pan. I predict we never hear of him again other than the occasional, "Hey, remember how much money the Knicks/Rockets paid for Lin?"

My gut tells me your gut is racist.


Really? Because he's Asian it's racist for me to not believe he is going to be an all-star caliber player? The way I see it, he had a few exemplary games that - because he is one of the few Asian players in the NBA - were given far more coverage and hype than they would have had the numbers been put up by a white or black player. Now, huge expectations are in place that I don't think Lin over the long term will live up to.
 
2012-07-06 12:54:11 PM  

FireZs: That's pretty exaggerated even for sportscenter-inspired memes. Lin can go left and does finish going left. That his left side is weaker than his right is hardly unique to him. As for defense, he averages 1.6 steals and 0.3 blocks a game (he actually blocked derrick rose, but of course since the knicks lost that game, it wasn't mentioned because it didn't fit the storyline), that's obviously not as good as a great PG defender like rondo, with 1.8 steals and 0.1 blocks a game, but it's not that far off.


Allen Iverson averaged 2.2 steals for his career. Legendary defense!

Though I do think Lin has the capability to be a decent defender. He's not the best athlete but he's big enough and he seems to have decent anticipation, which is probably the hardest thing to teach (see Amare, who still has no idea what the fark is going on on that end). Plus, all he really has to do is make sure if he gets beat he gets beat in the direction that Chandler is standing.
 
2012-07-06 12:58:58 PM  

dragonchild: he might evolve into a John Stockton.


Had me until there. One month of above-average PG play doesn't make him the next Johnny Short-Shorts.
 
2012-07-06 01:01:46 PM  

FireZs: redmid17: Kidd played 30 minutes a game last season and closer to 40 per game in the playoffs, so yeah that could well be the plan. Lin was not doing "fine" toward the end of last season. Lin is the Zoolander of PGs. Ask him to go left and it's pretty much a turnover waiting to happen. He's better finishing at the rim than he is shooting, so letting off the pick n roll or collapsing in the paint makes the smart play taking a mid range jumper which is not his strong suit. His defense is atrocious. He's limited in a lot of respects at this point.

That's pretty exaggerated even for sportscenter-inspired memes. Lin can go left and does finish going left. That his left side is weaker than his right is hardly unique to him. As for defense, he averages 1.6 steals and 0.3 blocks a game (he actually blocked derrick rose, but of course since the knicks lost that game, it wasn't mentioned because it didn't fit the storyline), that's obviously not as good as a great PG defender like rondo, with 1.8 steals and 0.1 blocks a game, but it's not that far off.

But the larger point here is that you're advocating relying on a 39 year old with worse stats to limit the minutes of a talented developing young point guard. I don't know how you can justify that.


Being a ball hawk in the passing lanes is about 5% of playing defense in basketball and .3 blocks is where Kidd is at the last 2 years. Lin's inability to even stay in front of or near other players even off the ball is pretty troubling. Now Kidd, at first glance, was certainly no great shakes last year statistically, but there are some things you need to take into consideration. His shooting percentage does look dismal until you realize that he took ~6 shots a game, 5 of which are 3 pointers. 36% for the year on 3s is good, not great though. His assists dipped as well by 3 from last year, but the entire team shot much worse this year as opposed to last season (.475 to .443)

Kidd, in my view, is a completely superior PG than Lin at this point, but his age and inability to get to the rim make him really a minutes splitter (ie 24 minutes a game). At 3 million he's a great value for the Knicks. I'd have loved to have gotten him on the Pacers for that price.
 
2012-07-06 01:03:15 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: FireZs: Contrabulous Flabtraption: My gut tells me Lin is a flash in the pan. I predict we never hear of him again other than the occasional, "Hey, remember how much money the Knicks/Rockets paid for Lin?"

My gut tells me your gut is racist.

Really? Because he's Asian it's racist for me to not believe he is going to be an all-star caliber player? The way I see it, he had a few exemplary games that - because he is one of the few Asian players in the NBA - were given far more coverage and hype than they would have had the numbers been put up by a white or black player. Now, huge expectations are in place that I don't think Lin over the long term will live up to.


The point is that guts aren't particularly reliable.

I agree it's not reasonable to treat him like he's always going to be the player in those 8 games in february. But I think it's also unreasonable to say that we'll "never hear of him again."
 
2012-07-06 01:05:00 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: My gut tells me Lin is a flash in the pan.


He probably won't get the same media treatment, so that could be your "flash in the pan". However, he projects to be an above-average PG from here on out.

The teams that "exposed" Lin were usually the best defensive playoff teams in the NBA. His last few games were pretty bad but he was probably already injured by that point.

Now, you gotta beat the best to be the best, so I'm happy to concede Lin's not the best. But if people are making the case that Lin sucks because teams like Miami and Philly shut him down, well, he's in pretty damn good company. Deron Williams is widely regarded as an elite point guard; in his last two games against Philly he averaged 5 turnovers and was held to 9/26 shooting. On the flip side, Lin's per-game stats were dragged down because he gets less involved in blowouts, and not just because of limited minutes. In the Knicks' 40-point mauling of Portland, Lin scored a whopping 6 points in 23 minutes. I know everyone says they don't play for stats, but Lin really doesn't play for stats. When he dropped 38 on the Lakers it was because Melo and Amar'e were out.
 
2012-07-06 01:09:47 PM  

regindyn: Had me until there. One month of above-average PG play doesn't make him the next Johnny Short-Shorts.


No, it doesn't. Of course it doesn't. Good thing no one said so, isn't it?
 
2012-07-06 01:11:20 PM  

IAmRight: FireZs: (he actually blocked derrick rose, but of course since the knicks lost that game, it wasn't mentioned because it didn't fit the storyline)

MY GOD HE BLOCKED A PG? AMAZING


*snicker*

At his defense and your obvious overreaction.
 
2012-07-06 01:15:17 PM  

dragonchild: The teams that "exposed" Lin were usually the best defensive playoff teams in the NBA.


By the same token, the games he played well were usually against the crappiest teams in the NBA (or, in the Lakers' case, teams with just plain sh*tty PG play).

Lin is a decent PG, but yeah, if he were to go to Houston, no one outside of a small group of NBA fans would give a sh*t about anything he does.
 
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