You need to respect the drugs you're taking. I never went past 3.5g on shrooms (no desire). I read enough to get a general feeling of what was in store for me before touching them. I had an experienced friend with me. It's easy to do these things safely.

Gawdzila:

So do you suppose he actually went to other dimensions?
I mean, I've had dreams about all sorts of crazy sh*t, how is this any different? Or any more enlightening? Or any more "real"?

In my opinion, and this is based on my own personal experiences with just salvia divinorum, there are aspects to reality that human beings are completely unaware off. I guess you could say other dimensions of consciousness. LSD and mushrooms don't quite get you there. DMT and salvia specifically remove you for about 5 - 10 minutes from this reality COMPLETELY. There is no comparison. And it's the truth as far as I know (other dimensions to reality). The only way to know is to experience it for yourself, or have a death experience.

Drubell: [img580.imageshack.us image 380x213]

Maybe he was just trying to wake up from the Midnight Hour.

Came here for a Persona 3 reference, leaving satisfied.

fusillade762: OOBE Juan Kenobi: Genevieve Marie: Gawdzila: tweek46420: have you done any Psychedelics? they are very mind expanding

"Mind expanding" my arse, they just give you a temporary case of synesthesia.

I'm going to go ahead and strongly disagree and also suggest you maybe listen to a couple of Terrence McKenna lectures.

:)

It's impossible to explain psychedelics to someone that has never taken them before. :)

McKenna and Joe Rogan talk extensively about going to other dimensions of reality on DMT. Pretty wild stuff.

I actually got the chance to see him speak live at a thing in San Francisco (with Spacetime Continuum and a didgeridoo player). Kinda half speech, half rave. Pretty cool. Glad I got to before he died. They actually taped it and I have a VHS copy somewhere. It's on YouTube, too.

Alien Dreamtime


Nice. That reminds me of when I kidnapped Dennis McKenna, Terrence's older brother, while in Peru. As a birthday present for myself, we took him to an abandoned research facility next to an orchid sanctuary and then down the road to hell to hunt for mushrooms, quite successfully. Then we threw a glowstick rave at the martian shaman's jungle retreat center as a protest against the last day of his grand opening.

Good times.

Too bad we lost Dennis' mushroom hat. He had spores from dozens of species imprinted in that thing. Now its floating around the headwaters to the amazon in Mother of God Peru...

Nordolio: Sleep?

On shrooms?

OK.

I mean, you can close your eyelids and all, but what happens next sure as hell isn't sleep.

This.

b0rg9: Who the fark falls asleep on psylocibin?

I'm thinking there was some Angel's Trumpet flower in the "tea" or some other types of shrooms.


Or, like St_Francis_P said, he's already touched with a bit of crazy.

This too.

You don't just fall asleep on mushrooms.

That being said, it is bedtime, and I do have some. I could test the theory for Farkland.

EsteeFlwrPot:

Nah not at all. I've done my share of hard drugs but I've never messed with shrooms. I've heard some freaky shiat goes down when people take it and the type of people i've known to use that stuff regularly are not people i'd really want myself associated with. i have no idea what i'm talking about

Shrinkwrap: You need to respect the drugs you're taking. I never went past 3.5g on shrooms (no desire). I read enough to get a general feeling of what was in store for me before touching them. I had an experienced friend with me. It's easy to do these things safely.

Probably good advice. I took 40 grams of fresh mushrooms (probably the equivalent of 4 or 5 grams dry) down in South America and now I can't really work with them without going into the downward spiral. San Pedro and Acid work fantastic though, so I hung up shrooms' jersey in the rafters after my last hot tub trip in Mexico ended in a blizzard... too many other enjoyable ways to expand my mind, without all the self-judgemental introspection...

EsteeFlwrPot: My ex also had this argument. He is 30 yrs old, broke and just moved out of his father's basement to now live in his mom's. But he sure has some good acid stories!

/I dated him because he convinced me he was going to work hard to get out of his situation
//I guess by that he meant smoke a whole lot of weed and eat all day long

yeah - i'm sure he would have been a surgeon had it not been for the drugs.

Genevieve Marie: Gawdzila: Genevieve Marie: I'm going to go ahead and strongly disagree and also suggest you maybe listen to a couple of Terrence McKenna lectures.

What do you think I'd find convincing about the "half-raving" of someone who isn't even an expert in the field of what the drugs he takes actually do? His expertise is that he was a new-agey dude who took a whole bunch of drugs, and who was buddies with an biochemist whose pet theory was similarly new-agey and never shown to have any merit. I'm sure his lectures are full of anecdotes of very interesting trips and all, but I'm not sure what's supposed to be compelling about it.


OOBE Juan Kenobi: McKenna and Joe Rogan talk extensively about going to other dimensions of reality on DMT.

So do you suppose he actually went to other dimensions?
I mean, I've had dreams about all sorts of crazy sh*t, how is this any different? Or any more enlightening? Or any more "real"?

So here's the thing: I'm not in the habit of convincing people that psychedelic use has merit. In my own life, it did, and it has in a lot of other people's lives, and there are several researchers at Johns Hopkins that are coming to some very interesting conclusions of their own about it. I think it opened doors in my mind that wouldn't have been opened in other ways, and I think I needed that.

But, you've clearly got strong opinions on it. I'll just say that I strongly disagree.

Entheogens are one of innumerable ways that people can achieve heightened states of consciousness. They're definitely not for everyone, and not to be taken lightly. Its very easy to give yourself a messiah complex or burn out valuable neuro-receptors and never be able to relate to reality again. The ones that are too easy to take are easy to abuse and be abused by, and the ones that aren't easy to take often make you puke or worse. You can do great work with them, but you gotta pay the piper one way or another...

Spacing trips out, giving yourself time to recalibrate, integrate the information, sift through the purge and the process to find the gems of meaning can work, especially if you find the plants that are your best allies and cultivate a deep relationship with them. Or you could just waste alot of time and money that you could have spent meditating, spinning in a circle, drumming, gonging yourself, practicing tai chi or martial arts, praying, or whatever else gets you there...

We're all hard-wired for ecstatic experience though, whether through social religious services or personal mystical revelation. Psychedelics represent one of the longer standing ways to get there, humankind and these plants have been involved in a conversation that predates civilization, agriculture, or possibly even homo sapiens ourselves...

I'd like to personally nominate Steve Tilbury for this year's Darwin Awards. Anyone else?

Pathman: EsteeFlwrPot: My ex also had this argument. He is 30 yrs old, broke and just moved out of his father's basement to now live in his mom's. But he sure has some good acid stories!

/I dated him because he convinced me he was going to work hard to get out of his situation
//I guess by that he meant smoke a whole lot of weed and eat all day long

yeah - i'm sure he would have been a surgeon had it not been for the drugs.

I know successful surgeons, politicians, NASA consultants, park rangers, electrical engineers, lawyers, psychologists, fortune 500 business owners, rocket scientists, professors, farmers, inventors, and more that engage in constructive psychedelic use.

I also know people that have broken their brains on psychedelics and now go around worshipping the synchronicities at the conflux of their selection and confirmation biases.

I'd say based on my own observations, that stimulants, depressants, and narcotics do alot more damage to families, careers, and psyches than hallucinogens ever could. That is of course not including deliriants like the nightshade family and bath salts in with psychedelics. Those are more hardcore stimulant poisons that scramble your brain than 'psychedelics'...

rkallister: I'd like to personally nominate Steve Tilbury for this year's Darwin Awards. Anyone else?

Pretty sure he nominated himself, but the natural selection committee decided due to his poor aim and the superfluousness of the prefrontal cortex to overall survival he'll have to wait until next year...

OOBE Juan Kenobi: In my opinion, and this is based on my own personal experiences with just salvia divinorum, there are aspects to reality that human beings are completely unaware off. I guess you could say other dimensions of consciousness. .... And it's the truth as far as I know (other dimensions to reality).

By using words like "reality" and "truth", it sounds to me like you're asserting that you believe that you've been provided with some knowledge about objective reality. As in, the world that you share with me and everyone else. Maybe I'm wrong about that (let me know if I am), but that's the assumption I'm going with.

Now, we all know that our senses can lie to us. Our perceptions are very often verifiably UNTRUE in an objective sense. Then, you take substances that are explicitly FOR farking around with our senses and perceptions in strange and unpredictable ways, and then proceed to assume that the things you experience while under the influence of that substance must correspond to some objective truth? Do you see how that's not a very sound basis for knowledge about objective reality?

OOBE Juan Kenobi: The only way to know is to experience it for yourself, or have a death experience.

No, see.. that's a good way to experience something like what you experienced, but it is NOT a good way to learn about anything other than that.
First hand experience isn't always a better source of knowledge, often it is just a better source of bias.

I understand that you have powerful, realistic, alien experiences while on hallucinogens. I even totally understand how it could change the way people think about things. But I just don't think there is even the smallest chance that it actually provides real information about the world outside their own head. There is absolutely no reason to think that this stuff corresponds to anything real.


Genevieve Marie: So here's the thing: I'm not in the habit of convincing people that psychedelic use has merit. In my own life, it did, and it has in a lot of other people's lives, and there are several researchers at Johns Hopkins that are coming to some very interesting conclusions of their own about it. I think it opened doors in my mind that wouldn't have been opened in other ways, and I think I needed that.

But, you've clearly got strong opinions on it. I'll just say that I strongly disagree.

I don't have any problem at all with the idea that it could change people's perceptions about things, or give some people impetus to change their lives in positive ways, but that's all stuff that happens in their own heads. That's fine.

Really my only strong opinion about psychedelics is that I absolutely do NOT believe that it actually provides any sort of information about objective reality. When people say they actually go to other dimensions and learn things about the way the universe works that nobody else knows because they took acid, THAT is a bunch of nonsense.

Word. I shudder just thinking about it. Although a gritty bitter mouthful of san pedro sludge might be worse, if only because the texture makes it so hard to choke down and the flavor already tastes like it just came back up.

But in the right context, its totally worth it. I knew botanists that would take huachuma and then walk through the forest, talking to the plants, tasting them, feeling them, smelling them, and actually downloading their medicinal functions by heightening their senses and processing the information thus provided.

Wow, dope is such a good time.

caramba421: EsteeFlwrPot: tweek46420: EsteeFlwrPot: actionsaurus: EsteeFlwrPot:
Nah not at all. I've done my share of hard drugs but I've never messed with shrooms. I've heard some freaky shiat goes down when people take it and the type of people i've known to use that stuff regularly are not people i'd really want myself associated with.


So you wouldn't want to hang out with Steve Jobs? He said that taking hallucinogens was one of the most important things he ever did in his life. Or how about Francis Crick? He discovered the structure of DNA while on LSD, which incidentally won him the Nobel Prize in Physiology. How about the Beatles? Surely you could spare a moment of your time to hang out with one of the greatest forces in pop culture history.

Hallucinogens are the drug of choice for people that are smart and interesting.

Nuh uh! Only teh LoZerS do drugs!! Mom, dad, and the D.A.R.E. person man told me so, therfore its TruE!!

Gawdzila: a bunch of nonsense

I'd say in most cases you're right Mr. Gawdzila, but not all. Some medicines are extremely effective at helping people tune into reality, while others are more effective at processing emotional or mental baggage that might otherwise take years of therapy. Still others are phenomenal at treating addiction. All of the revelations one could experience on these medicines (San Pedro, Ayahuasca, and Ibogaine, in my examples) could directly relate to one's past and future and provide meaningful courses of action to pursue that could lead to positive personal or social outcomes.

But not always, and there haven't been enough statistical studies on them due to people's fear of the unknown and assorted sundry social ailments. Thankfully, MAPS, and numerous latin american and european research outfits are finally able to do the kind of peer reviewed research to demonstrate or refute the veracity of these types of claims...

The first thing I thought of was that he was so high he thought he'd just respawn.

EsteeFlwrPot: actionsaurus: EsteeFlwrPot: Any friends that would do a drug like that aren't good friends in the first place. Sorry to say.

You sound like a sheltered little whiney puss

Nah not at all. I've done my share of hard drugs but I've never messed with shrooms. I've heard some freaky shiat goes down when people take it and the type of people i've known to use that stuff regularly are not people i'd really want myself associated with.

Shrooms are good for some people. Lots of people actually, for millennia. I agree though, you shouldn't do them often.

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Gawdzila: a bunch of nonsense

I'd say in most cases you're right Mr. Gawdzila, but not all. Some medicines are extremely effective at helping people tune into reality, while others are more effective at processing emotional or mental baggage that might otherwise take years of therapy. Still others are phenomenal at treating addiction. All of the revelations one could experience on these medicines (San Pedro, Ayahuasca, and Ibogaine, in my examples) could directly relate to one's past and future and provide meaningful courses of action to pursue that could lead to positive personal or social outcomes.

But not always, and there haven't been enough statistical studies on them due to people's fear of the unknown and assorted sundry social ailments. Thankfully, MAPS, and numerous latin american and european research outfits are finally able to do the kind of peer reviewed research to demonstrate or refute the veracity of these types of claims...

You essentially just added more evidence to his statement. The 'handling of emotional baggage'? It's not because of a sudden influx of new colorful knowledge, but it allows a different way to view the information they already had. Changing the brain's chemistry to alter perceptions and destroy inhibitions is not receiving higher knowledge, no matter how much I want it to.

Dadoody: [www.geekalerts.com image 392x292]

[i.imgur.com image 600x420]

[blog.gamesylvania.com image 324x288]

Came for this, leaving happy.

caramba421: EsteeFlwrPot: tweek46420: EsteeFlwrPot: actionsaurus: EsteeFlwrPot:
Nah not at all. I've done my share of hard drugs but I've never messed with shrooms. I've heard some freaky shiat goes down when people take it and the type of people i've known to use that stuff regularly are not people i'd really want myself associated with.


So you wouldn't want to hang out with Steve Jobs? He said that taking hallucinogens was one of the most important things he ever did in his life. Or how about Francis Crick? He discovered the structure of DNA while on LSD, which incidentally won him the Nobel Prize in Physiology. How about the Beatles? Surely you could spare a moment of your time to hang out with one of the greatest forces in pop culture history.

Hallucinogens are the drug of choice for people that are smart and interesting.


you don`t contradict each other you know...

Personally, I`m just glad this story had guns involved. Imagine how much worse it would have turned out if there was not unrestricted access to guns....

The problem with shrooms (magic or otherwise) is that they're a FUNGUS. They're related to athletes foot and black mold. I managed to choke them down a few times in the '70s, but they were farking disgusting. For a mellow high, a gel-cap of mescaline was a lot easier to deal with.

I got a chuckle out of the guy up-thread saying ten hits of acid made for a good afternoon. I've read numerous times that the common dosage today is about 200 micrograms, maybe 300 if you're lucky. Back around '75 there was a batch they called "8-way windowpane" that weighed in at around 6,000 mikes. It was meant to be put in a glass of orange juice or something and then shared by a bunch of people, but we didn't know that until after we'd all taken a full hit each. We landed a couple days later. I forgot how to walk and lurched around like I had polio for a couple of weeks. I think within the next couple of years, the dealers finally wised up and stopped making megadoses because too many high profile people were going batshiat insane from it. (Peter Green, Sid Barrett, etc)

fusillade762: Agreed. But how much information can your senses and brain really comprehend about the universe around you at any one time? We have built-in filters that block out a great deal about the world simply because otherwise we would be quivering wrecks all the time.

Sure, which goes back to my point about our senses not being the best arbiters of exactly what reality is.
Our brains interpret the world around us in ways that are useful to us in our daily lives, and that's great. I'm glad it does.
But it's not necessarily useful to people who are looking for hard facts about that world.


Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Some medicines are extremely effective at helping people tune into reality, while others are more effective at processing emotional or mental baggage that might otherwise take years of therapy.

Sure, but those are things that are going on inside the medicated person's head. Emotions are generated by your brain. Someone who can't "tune into" reality is not having that trouble because something is wrong with reality, it's because something is wrong inside his head. It only proves my point that the stuff going on in your brain simply doesn't necessarily correspond to what's going on outside your body, especially when it isn't functioning as it normally should.


Ayn Rand's Social Worker: All of the revelations one could experience on these medicines (San Pedro, Ayahuasca, and Ibogaine, in my examples) could directly relate to one's past and future and provide meaningful courses of action to pursue that could lead to positive personal or social outcomes.

Sure, they could, but once again, these are all things that relate specifically to you. The drug altered your own perception of your past, your future, and your actions, and what positive effects they might have for your social or emotional well-being. None of that is similar at all to saying that LSD showed you that alternate dimensions exist and what they're like.

"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."

The 'shrooms had nothing to do with it. These punk kids are simply pathetically stupid!

EsteeFlwrPot: caramba421: EsteeFlwrPot: tweek46420: EsteeFlwrPot: actionsaurus: EsteeFlwrPot:
Nah not at all. I've done my share of hard drugs but I've never messed with shrooms. I've heard some freaky shiat goes down when people take it and the type of people i've known to use that stuff regularly are not people i'd really want myself associated with.


So you wouldn't want to hang out with Steve Jobs? He said that taking hallucinogens was one of the most important things he ever did in his life. Or how about Francis Crick? He discovered the structure of DNA while on LSD, which incidentally won him the Nobel Prize in Physiology. How about the Beatles? Surely you could spare a moment of your time to hang out with one of the greatest forces in pop culture history.

Hallucinogens are the drug of choice for people that are smart and interesting.

My ex also had this argument. He is 30 yrs old, broke and just moved out of his father's basement to now live in his mom's. But he sure has some good acid stories!

/I dated him because he convinced me he was going to work hard to get out of his situation
//I guess by that he meant smoke a whole lot of weed and eat all day long

Aha! Now we get to the root...

You are bitter about your ex, ergo, all people like him are "people you'd rather not hang out with".

Don't lump all those who would do psychadelics with your ex...

caramba421: [images.wikia.com image 410x408]

"Today, a man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy, condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all One Consciousness, experiencing itself subjectively......there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

Great song.

138 comments and no mention of the Florida tag?

This is pure Florida.

Magic mushrooms? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_foiHuGMym64/S9s_QHX3IbI/AAAAAAAAADw/8pJ26pk5 _Ko/s1600/EP17+-+Mushroom+Samba.png

Maybe it wasn't shrooms. Maybe it was Videodrome.



/Long live the new flesh.

Gawdzila: Now, we all know that our senses can lie to us. Our perceptions are very often verifiably UNTRUE in an objective sense. Then, you take substances that are explicitly FOR farking around with our senses and perceptions in strange and unpredictable ways, and then proceed to assume that the things you experience while under the influence of that substance must correspond to some objective truth? Do you see how that's not a very sound basis for knowledge about objective reality?

I feel like you're skirting around the edges of a topic, and not actually getting anything wrong as such, but not seeing a few important little details.

First of all, let us assume that there is such a thing as "objective reality". I think this is a reasonable assumption to make because most of our scientific theories and laws do not care what you think about them, they work anyway (when you get into higher-level physics things begin to change depending on whether and how they've been observed, but it's a good assumption for everyday things).

Second of all, let us assume that "objective reality" is something that a person can never, ever experience, because existence is subjective. Third, let us assume that there is more than one way to subjectively experience objective reality (there are different filters you can use, as it were - and you are always using SOME sort of filter, otherwise your brain would be overloaded), and that some of these ways are better for certain people or for certain situations.

I'm sure that even someone who's never taken any drugs or done any meditation will have experienced this at times. On a personal note, my perception of time can be either sped up or slowed down depending on what's going on (some animals, like little birds, seem to have a much slower perception of time than humans, which allows them to move much quicker). Sometimes I have times where I seem to zoom out and get more clarity about my life - see the forest rather than the trees, as it were.

Anyway, my point is that studying different filters may be useful, because not every type of filter will be good for every situation, but you will never know which filters are good and which ones work for you personally without trying them out. The same reason why traveling around the world is a good idea - you gain the ability to look at problems from different angles, and you learn what you like and what you don't.

Our perception is subjective, but to paraphrase Theo Ellsworth, where there is an imaginary problem, perhaps one should look for an imaginary solution. Perhaps certain problems in your life are there because your reality filter is not allowing you to see a solution to them. Why not try a different reality filter and see if you have any better luck?

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The dream... is over

Or has it just begun?

JonnyBlack: DMT is far outside of the human frame of reference. I don't know if I'll do it again even if offered, there is NOTHING that compares to a breakthrough DMT experience, it's so far beyond what the human mind experiences normally that it's beyond alien,

We get it. The 5-HT2A receptors in your brain were overstimulated and malfunctioning. Big deal. Take a deep breath and get over it.

All this talk about lsd,shrooms and dmt makes me feel really,really jealous of you guys that can get it. All I can manage to get is DXM and MXE,though I must say they're awesome and using them has made me find some inner peace. Do shrooms grow in Ky?

tweek46420:
/i personally have tripped alone....its not that bad

Seriously. I always liked being in my own headspace when tripping, and sometimes having friends around made that impossible.

And some people seem to feel like they need to act in a certain way when tripping, like movies have pre-conditioned them to be all "oh man have you ever really looked at your hands"... Seriously annoying.

It's been a ages, not even sure where I'd get shrooms or blotter these days.

/not a hint
//on the other hand...
///hands... omigod i have hands

ThrobblefootSpectre: JonnyBlack: DMT is far outside of the human frame of reference. I don't know if I'll do it again even if offered, there is NOTHING that compares to a breakthrough DMT experience, it's so far beyond what the human mind experiences normally that it's beyond alien,

We get it. The 5-HT2A receptors in your brain were overstimulated and malfunctioning. Big deal. Take a deep breath and get over it.

he didn't even do it. he's just doing the gay.
and you (gay) lost.

A Terrible Human: All this talk about lsd,shrooms and dmt makes me feel really,really jealous of you guys that can get it. All I can manage to get is DXM and MXE,though I must say they're awesome and using them has made me find some inner peace. Do shrooms grow in Ky?

buy some hawaiian baby wood rose seeds. and take like 10. it's like acid but it's legal.

caramba421: EsteeFlwrPot: tweek46420: EsteeFlwrPot: actionsaurus: EsteeFlwrPot:
Nah not at all. I've done my share of hard drugs but I've never messed with shrooms. I've heard some freaky shiat goes down when people take it and the type of people i've known to use that stuff regularly are not people i'd really want myself associated with.


So you wouldn't want to hang out with Steve Jobs? He said that taking hallucinogens was one of the most important things he ever did in his life. Or how about Francis Crick? He discovered the structure of DNA while on LSD, which incidentally won him the Nobel Prize in Physiology. How about the Beatles? Surely you could spare a moment of your time to hang out with one of the greatest forces in pop culture history.

Hallucinogens are the drug of choice for people that are smart and interesting.

i think i might have rolled my eyes even more at this argument than the original comment.

Gandhi liked a little bit of lemon in his water. Most of the people i have sat down with at restaurants who ask for lemon in their water and insufferable douche bags.

A loser is a loser and a winner is a winner.
Drugs, alcohol, television, high-fructose corn syrup... these things are all hang-ups for the already weak.


except for nutella. that stuff should actually be banned.
almost ruined my life