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(The Citizen)   School to bullied lesbian student: "It's your own fault. Your gayness confuses and scares the other students"   (thelocal.se) divider line 178
    More: Asinine, batty boys, rude behavior, lesbians, case officers, students, gays  
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17212 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jul 2012 at 11:50 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-06 01:24:07 AM  

b3x: welcome to high school ...if you are different and flaunt it, it will be held against you. this is a good life lesson for the real world.


Or you can stand up for yourself and beat the living bejeesus out of the bully, and when questioned say "I don't understand them. They scare and confuse me. It's not my fault".
 
2012-07-06 01:32:15 AM  

Twitch Boy: Just a matter of time until some GLBT person decides he better start carrying, gets attacked by some idiot, and decides to stand his ground.

You'll see every Republican head do a complete 360.


Really? This Republican would say that the hypothetical attacker would have it coming. To borrow from the "egg-shell rule" of jurisprudence, "You take your victim as you find him". If you attack someone who's packing, you get what you deserve.

One of the keystones of a livable society is that people don't go around physically attacking people in public for no valid reason. And no, being gay doesn't qualify as such (even if he flirts with you in front of your friends). Any reasonable person (regardless on their views on GLBTetc issues) should be in agreement with that.
 
2012-07-06 01:34:26 AM  
Maybe she just needs to stop acting like a farking biatch.

/What?
//I said 'maybe'.
 
2012-07-06 01:37:48 AM  
The derp in the comments to TFA is worthy of Fox Izvestia.
 
2012-07-06 01:52:56 AM  
How timely.

apparently people didn't read my comment from the swedish man rape comments

Let's recap.

"Almost everything you think you know about Sweden is wrong. They have the best PR firm in existence. Reality is very different."


Paris1127
"..Hopefully this case is an anomaly..."

Yes this is an anomaly, it made the news.
 
2012-07-06 01:56:26 AM  
So, this is one of those threads where I have the choice of getting on my high horse and saying that bullying is wrong, be an ITG and say how i'd have fought back, tell the girl not to act different because the real world don't appreciate that shiat, or summon He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Quoted for some good old bigoted copy-pasta, right?
 
2012-07-06 01:58:25 AM  

blender61: How timely.

apparently people didn't read my comment from the swedish man rape comments

Let's recap.

"Almost everything you think you know about Sweden is wrong. They have the best PR firm in existence. Reality is very different."


Paris1127
"..Hopefully this case is an anomaly..."

Yes this is an anomaly, it made the news.


I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative.
 
2012-07-06 01:59:15 AM  
I'm willing to bet that her being a lesbian was secondary to how she presented herself in general. If she was a general pain in the ass to the rest of the students it wouldn't matter if she was a virgin, a raging slut who blew the entire skiing team or a lesbian, she's going to attract unwanted attention. The response by the school indicates to me that she was an overall problem student with previous behavior issues who also happened to be gay. This is no different than someone trying to play the race card even though their race had nothing to do with an incident.
 
2012-07-06 01:59:18 AM  

robohobo: JPINFV: Wait, teachers not doing anything to stop bullying? When did this become news?



Bullying only counts when the bullied is a homosexual. Then it's news worthy.


were you under a rock for bullied bus monitor grandma karen klein last month?

and phoebe prince would like to say something but she can't

and it's not like jessi slaughter's dad became a meme or anything
 
2012-07-06 02:01:46 AM  

batcookie: blender61: How timely.

apparently people didn't read my comment from the swedish man rape comments

Let's recap.

"Almost everything you think you know about Sweden is wrong. They have the best PR firm in existence. Reality is very different."


Paris1127
"..Hopefully this case is an anomaly..."

Yes this is an anomaly, it made the news.

I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative.


My brain turned that into 'necropheliac fascists' damn late night job...

/give a whole new degree of farked up to the Wolfenstein games
 
2012-07-06 02:03:40 AM  

Radioactive Ass: I'm willing to bet that her being a lesbian was secondary to how she presented herself in general. If she was a general pain in the ass to the rest of the students it wouldn't matter if she was a virgin, a raging slut who blew the entire skiing team or a lesbian, she's going to attract unwanted attention. The response by the school indicates to me that she was an overall problem student with previous behavior issues who also happened to be gay. This is no different than someone trying to play the race card even though their race had nothing to do with an incident.


wow you seem to know a lot about this girl. i'm sure it's not baseless "blame the victim" speculatiom.
 
2012-07-06 02:13:44 AM  
The people who live in Sweden are human beings guys, they aren't farking angels.

Bullying in High School happens everywhere.
 
2012-07-06 02:16:44 AM  
I still want to live in Sweden. Skiing blondes and black metal. When I die, I will go to Sverige.
 
2012-07-06 02:17:16 AM  
I went to school in Sweden in 1991, when I was in third grade. I can't really comment on this though because I was not aware of homosexuality (except my own) and I was not aware of any anti-homosexuality behavior. There were lots of graffiti swastikas, though. But I didn't take them too seriously as I kind of felt they were an expression of general angst. That was an odd year though as there were several shootings of immigrants in broad daylight in downtown Uppsala where I lived. Immigration has always been a tricky issue in Europe.

Anyhow, there was a great coming of age movie about a lesbian girl in Sweden called farking Åmål; of course, the American title of the film is Show Me Love. Hehe. The Swedish title sounds more scandalous than it is. Åmål is the name of a town in Sweden, so the title is an expression of frustration, not of someone farking a person named that. I could imagine this type of behavior happening in smaller towns in Sweden. I think that like the US not every town would be the same. The different is that Sweden is one country so the federal laws would apply to everyone, and there are likely more protections in place. Still, this story surprised me.
 
2012-07-06 02:34:03 AM  
In this situation what I see is bullying and attempted murder and the authorities in charge of stopping it not doing their jobs. The victim's sexuality is just the excuse the bullies are using to try and justify themselves. If she were straight, maybe they wouldn't have targeted her, but they'd be doing it to someone else just as bad and unless that victim was "special" in some way nobody would care, the school would dismiss and belittle them just the same way, nobody would support them or help or be outraged like this, and it happens every day in every school. Wrong isn't "extra special wrong" because the person doing it uses one excuse over another, it's just plain wrong because it's just plain wrong.

batcookie: b3x: welcome to high school ...if you are different and flaunt it, it will be held against you. this is a good life lesson for the real world.

God, if there's one thing I hate more than outright ignorance it's complacency. The "real world" is just a collection of stupid lessons you've had ingrained in you that amount to "SHUT UP AND DON'T ROCK THE BOAT." The only "real" thing in your so called "real world" is human beings, and we CAN behave better. We CHOOSE not to. Get it right.


"Better" is subjective. And "don't rock the boat" is just an adult version of the control messages we're programmed with as children, you can't expect most people to work outside them. Conservatives want to use it to maintain the facist "don't ask don't tell, it's fine as long as I don't have to see it" attitude towards homosexuality. Liberals like to use it to paint anyone who doesn't have the "right thoughts" or isn't comfortable with atypical sexualities as neanderthals who need some kind of forcible re-education to be considered human.
 
2012-07-06 02:37:10 AM  
The comments in this thread show a disturbing lack of skepticism.

A teenager claims she was beaten with pliers to the point that she suffered a skull fracture, and that her school's reaction was along the lines of "meh, you need to be less sexual".

In the absence of any collaborating evidence, I find that difficult to believe. Teenagers (kids in general, really) are notorious for being full of shiat, and that is quite an incredible story. I simply cannot imagine teachers and principals apathetically looking on while their students beat one another with tools.

Why is everyone buying into her story hook, line and sinker without even having the benefit of knowing what the school has to say?
 
2012-07-06 02:40:40 AM  

Moonlightfox: In this situation what I see is bullying and attempted murder and the authorities in charge of stopping it not doing their jobs. The victim's sexuality is just the excuse the bullies are using to try and justify themselves. If she were straight, maybe they wouldn't have targeted her, but they'd be doing it to someone else just as bad and unless that victim was "special" in some way nobody would care, the school would dismiss and belittle them just the same way, nobody would support them or help or be outraged like this, and it happens every day in every school. Wrong isn't "extra special wrong" because the person doing it uses one excuse over another, it's just plain wrong because it's just plain wrong.

batcookie: b3x: welcome to high school ...if you are different and flaunt it, it will be held against you. this is a good life lesson for the real world.

God, if there's one thing I hate more than outright ignorance it's complacency. The "real world" is just a collection of stupid lessons you've had ingrained in you that amount to "SHUT UP AND DON'T ROCK THE BOAT." The only "real" thing in your so called "real world" is human beings, and we CAN behave better. We CHOOSE not to. Get it right.

"Better" is subjective. And "don't rock the boat" is just an adult version of the control messages we're programmed with as children, you can't expect most people to work outside them. Conservatives want to use it to maintain the facist "don't ask don't tell, it's fine as long as I don't have to see it" attitude towards homosexuality. Liberals like to use it to paint anyone who doesn't have the "right thoughts" or isn't comfortable with atypical sexualities as neanderthals who need some kind of forcible re-education to be considered human.



Better is subjective. However, can you really think of a way to justify denying someone peace/safety/security because you don't like who they choose to fark? Really, objectively speaking? You give me just one logical reason for why that thinking could ever be construed as okay, and I'll concede this one to you. Evolution doesn't even count, as we're already over-populated. So honestly, give me ONE objective reason. I can give you lots of objective reasons why that thinking is harmful, and I will if you want, I am a psychologist, so if there's one thing I know it's human thought patterns and behaviors and the consequences that inevitably come from them. I am just asking you for one. Re-education has naught to do with it - it's about metacognition. People aren't usually willingly stupid, they just don't know their own mind and how to avoid the mental traps humans fall into.
 
2012-07-06 02:43:15 AM  

cherrydog: wow you seem to know a lot about this girl. i'm sure it's not baseless "blame the victim" speculatiom.


I know just as much about her and her situation as you do. I also know how schools react to bullying and that problem students in general tend to be treated differently than non-problem students where bullying is involved. If the student is a magnet for bullies then there's obviously something going on that TFA isn't saying, perhaps because it isn't helpful to their obvious agenda (as seen in their own headline "School to bullied lesbian teen: don't be so gay") of playing the "Gay Card".

High school kids are ruthlessly Darwinian when it comes to peer pressure but if it's coming down to blows then it's pretty clear that there were other indicators well before that that made her stand out to the schools administrators and teachers as someone who quite literally was "asking for it" at some point as shown by their response of telling her to "Tone down" her behavior.

Sometimes it's ok to "Blame the victim" when the victim is actually at least half of the problem. That doesn't mean that I condone the bullies actions. Not at all, but from what I've read this appears to be a situation that could be seen coming a mile away by the school (not necessarily who the bully was going to be but who the victim was going to be). Obnoxious kids tend to get bullied no matter what their sexual preference (or whatever other criteria you wish to choose) may be and often the best advice you can give them is to not be so obnoxious and then let them figure out why because once they get out into the "Real" world the consequences can be a lot worse than some bullying in the schoolyard and there won't be a teacher to run to for protection.
 
2012-07-06 02:44:39 AM  
I've met gays who were really annoyingly gay to the point of deserving an eye-pinching.

But how does a lesbian become more annoying?
I mean, they're already women..
 
2012-07-06 02:58:24 AM  
This is the second article in as many days that's made me go, "WTF, Sweden?!" They're going on my list along with Florida, Texas and Quebec.
 
2012-07-06 03:03:15 AM  

batcookie: blender61: How timely.

apparently people didn't read my comment from the swedish man rape comments

Let's recap.

"Almost everything you think you know about Sweden is wrong. They have the best PR firm in existence. Reality is very different."


Paris1127
"..Hopefully this case is an anomaly..."

Yes this is an anomaly, it made the news.

I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative.


Oh wow a dig at America, you are so witty and edgy
 
2012-07-06 03:05:04 AM  

batcookie:

I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative.


Gave you a smart and a funny.
There is good and bad in all things.
Pick your poison.
 
2012-07-06 03:07:09 AM  
I still don't get it. Someone is going to have to post pictures of Swedish lesbian school girls for me to understand. Hot ones, if possible.
 
2012-07-06 03:08:09 AM  
cedarpark: I still don't get it. Someone is going to have to post pictures of Swedish lesbian school girls for me to understand. Hot ones, if possible.

Hello. My name is Chris Hanson.

Why don't you have a seat over there.The Party Van will be there shortly.
 
2012-07-06 03:11:17 AM  

blender61: batcookie:

I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative.

Gave you a smart and a funny.
There is good and bad in all things.
Pick your poison.


Indeed. You can guarantee if a country contains humans, there WILL be d-bags.

(For instance, someone who dislikes someone's opinion so they attempt to easy their own psychological discomfort by refusing to address the actual idea and instead discrediting it by making false assumptions about the person's motivations. See: I had Snu Snu)
 
2012-07-06 03:12:43 AM  

Radioactive Ass: cherrydog: wow you seem to know a lot about this girl. i'm sure it's not baseless "blame the victim" speculatiom.

I know just as much about her and her situation as you do. I also know how schools react to bullying and that problem students in general tend to be treated differently than non-problem students where bullying is involved. If the student is a magnet for bullies then there's obviously something going on that TFA isn't saying, perhaps because it isn't helpful to their obvious agenda (as seen in their own headline "School to bullied lesbian teen: don't be so gay") of playing the "Gay Card".

High school kids are ruthlessly Darwinian when it comes to peer pressure but if it's coming down to blows then it's pretty clear that there were other indicators well before that that made her stand out to the schools administrators and teachers as someone who quite literally was "asking for it" at some point as shown by their response of telling her to "Tone down" her behavior.

Sometimes it's ok to "Blame the victim" when the victim is actually at least half of the problem. That doesn't mean that I condone the bullies actions. Not at all, but from what I've read this appears to be a situation that could be seen coming a mile away by the school (not necessarily who the bully was going to be but who the victim was going to be). Obnoxious kids tend to get bullied no matter what their sexual preference (or whatever other criteria you wish to choose) may be and often the best advice you can give them is to not be so obnoxious and then let them figure out why because once they get out into the "Real" world the consequences can be a lot worse than some bullying in the schoolyard and there won't be a teacher to run to for protection.


yes this is clearly and unequivocally a case of "she was an obnoxious lesbo and asking for it, so this is a good lesson for her when she gets to the Real world", you made case well, counselor

/you sound republican
 
2012-07-06 03:16:14 AM  

I had Snu Snu: batcookie:

"I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative."

Oh wow a dig at America, you are so witty and edgy


You do realize that he does have a point. Nobody come to the table with clean hands.
Don't be so thin skinned.
 
2012-07-06 03:17:33 AM  
True Story.
 
2012-07-06 03:18:55 AM  
The school says she needs to "tone down her sexuality". Isn't that also what they might say to a loutish jock who assumed that all girls wanted to have sex with him and got thumped by one for coming on too strong?

Being lesbian is not a licence for unwanted and agressive sexual advances.
 
2012-07-06 03:30:37 AM  

batcookie: Moonlightfox: In this situation what I see is bullying and attempted murder and the authorities in charge of stopping it not doing their jobs. The victim's sexuality is just the excuse the bullies are using to try and justify themselves. If she were straight, maybe they wouldn't have targeted her, but they'd be doing it to someone else just as bad and unless that victim was "special" in some way nobody would care, the school would dismiss and belittle them just the same way, nobody would support them or help or be outraged like this, and it happens every day in every school. Wrong isn't "extra special wrong" because the person doing it uses one excuse over another, it's just plain wrong because it's just plain wrong.

batcookie: b3x: welcome to high school ...if you are different and flaunt it, it will be held against you. this is a good life lesson for the real world.

God, if there's one thing I hate more than outright ignorance it's complacency. The "real world" is just a collection of stupid lessons you've had ingrained in you that amount to "SHUT UP AND DON'T ROCK THE BOAT." The only "real" thing in your so called "real world" is human beings, and we CAN behave better. We CHOOSE not to. Get it right.

"Better" is subjective. And "don't rock the boat" is just an adult version of the control messages we're programmed with as children, you can't expect most people to work outside them. Conservatives want to use it to maintain the facist "don't ask don't tell, it's fine as long as I don't have to see it" attitude towards homosexuality. Liberals like to use it to paint anyone who doesn't have the "right thoughts" or isn't comfortable with atypical sexualities as neanderthals who need some kind of forcible re-education to be considered human.


Better is subjective. However, can you really think of a way to justify denying someone peace/safety/security because you don't like who they choose to fark? Really, objectively speaking? You give me just one logical reason for why that thinking could ever be construed as okay, and I'll concede this one to you. Evolution doesn't even count, as we're already over-populated. So honestly, give me ONE objective reason. I can give you lots of objective reasons why that thinking is harmful, and I will if you want, I am a psychologist, so if there's one thing I know it's human thought patterns and behaviors and the consequences that inevitably come from them. I am just asking you for one. Re-education has naught to do with it - it's about metacognition. People aren't usually willingly stupid, they just don't know their own mind and how to avoid the mental traps humans fall into.


They're not denying people peace/saftey/security by being internally uncomfortable with different sexualities, and when I say "uncomfortable" I don't mean "thinks it's wrong" I mean "have conflicted feelings about the subject as a whole due to lack of exposure but hold no particular malice to anyone involved," which seems to be the dominant attitude anywhere without a large presence of said differing sexualities.

But as far as you seem to be saying, any straight person who doesn't think, feel and speak exactly the way they're told to about sexuality is morally equivalent to that psychotic biatch who attacked this girl with a pair of pliers for being gay.

That's a problem- the attitude that a given "special group" is allowed to dictate to anyone who isn't part of it what to think, feel, and say; and any individual who doesn't obey is stereotyped as various ridiculous things and just generally godwinned by proxy. Conversely anyone who's part of that group gets to think, feel, and say whatever they want and anyone who questions it is subject to similar crucifixion.

It's the same with race, it's the same with religion, it's the same with gender identity and sexuality. Putting people into arbitrary privileged classes based on their differences only breeds more xenophobia and ignorance, it does NOT solve it.
 
2012-07-06 03:31:32 AM  

cherrydog: yes this is clearly and unequivocally a case of "she was an obnoxious lesbo and asking for it, so this is a good lesson for her when she gets to the Real world", you made case well, counselor

/you sound republican


How about just an obnoxious person in general? Homosexuals are just as likely to be obnoxious as anyone else or do you think that because they're gay they are immune from that very human trait. Again, lacking the specifics other than what a clearly biased article decided to mete out to its readers it sounds to me like she was a known problem and that this incident wasn't a one time occurrence for her.

/you sound very biased... much like the Republicans that you clearly claim to dislike. Are you sure that you're not a closeted Republican overcompensating by being a Republicanphobe?
 
2012-07-06 03:36:38 AM  

Radioactive Ass: cherrydog: yes this is clearly and unequivocally a case of "she was an obnoxious lesbo and asking for it, so this is a good lesson for her when she gets to the Real world", you made case well, counselor

/you sound republican

How about just an obnoxious person in general? Homosexuals are just as likely to be obnoxious as anyone else or do you think that because they're gay they are immune from that very human trait. Again, lacking the specifics other than what a clearly biased article decided to mete out to its readers it sounds to me like she was a known problem and that this incident wasn't a one time occurrence for her.

/you sound very biased... much like the Republicans that you clearly claim to dislike. Are you sure that you're not a closeted Republican overcompensating by being a Republicanphobe?


you got my number!

/clever girl
 
2012-07-06 03:40:49 AM  

Moonlightfox: thinking is harmful, and I will if you want, I am a psychologist, so if there's one thing I know it's human thought patterns and behaviors and the consequences that inevitably come from them. I am just asking you for one. Re-education has naught to do with it - it's about metacognition. People aren't usually willingly stupid, they just don't know their own mind and how to avoid the mental traps humans fall into.

They're not denying people peace/saftey/security by being internally uncomfortable with different sexualities, and when I say "uncomfortable" I don't mean "thinks it's wrong" I mean "have conflicted feelings about the subject as a whole due to lack of exposure but hold no particular malice to anyone involved," which seems to be the dominant attitude anywhere without a large presence of said differing sexualities.

But


Nobody said anything about internal discomfort. Beating someone with pliars and then telling that person they are at fault is not internal. Internal discomfort is fine, as long as it STAYS internal. I'm uncomfortable with religion and capitalism internally, but I try not to be a douche to religious people and businessmen. I definitely don't go around beating them with pliars. What you are referring to, a personal discomfort that you keep to yourself, has absolutely nothing to do with this article. No one's saying that if she'd been beaten with pliars for another reason, like they didn't like her haircut, it would have been any better. You decided that one. And if belonging to a group of people that has to fight for their right to not be murdered in most countries is your idea of "privileged," you're a bit scary. The xenophobia is there. The irrational hatred is there. Protections need to be offered, then, to EVERYONE. Turning a blind eye when one group is persecuted ALSO does not solve the problem.
 
2012-07-06 04:03:16 AM  

batcookie: Moonlightfox: thinking is harmful, and I will if you want, I am a psychologist, so if there's one thing I know it's human thought patterns and behaviors and the consequences that inevitably come from them. I am just asking you for one. Re-education has naught to do with it - it's about metacognition. People aren't usually willingly stupid, they just don't know their own mind and how to avoid the mental traps humans fall into.

They're not denying people peace/saftey/security by being internally uncomfortable with different sexualities, and when I say "uncomfortable" I don't mean "thinks it's wrong" I mean "have conflicted feelings about the subject as a whole due to lack of exposure but hold no particular malice to anyone involved," which seems to be the dominant attitude anywhere without a large presence of said differing sexualities.

But

Nobody said anything about internal discomfort. Beating someone with pliars and then telling that person they are at fault is not internal. Internal discomfort is fine, as long as it STAYS internal. I'm uncomfortable with religion and capitalism internally, but I try not to be a douche to religious people and businessmen. I definitely don't go around beating them with pliars. What you are referring to, a personal discomfort that you keep to yourself, has absolutely nothing to do with this article. No one's saying that if she'd been beaten with pliars for another reason, like they didn't like her haircut, it would have been any better. You decided that one. And if belonging to a group of people that has to fight for their right to not be murdered in most countries is your idea of "privileged," you're a bit scary. The xenophobia is there. The irrational hatred is there. Protections need to be offered, then, to EVERYONE. Turning a blind eye when one group is persecuted ALSO does not solve the problem.


But the part of my comment you originally replied to, was not talking about the particular incident in the article. It was talking about the way the school editorialized about people being uncomfortable with the girl's sexuality and using that as an excuse, and the newspaper article editorializing that to draw a moral equivalency between that and the actual crimes committed against the victim. The text between the lines asks, "when you think about it, didn't all straight people metaphorically beat all homosexuals with a pair of pliers?"

No one's saying that if she'd been beaten with pliars for another reason, like they didn't like her haircut, it would have been any better. You decided that one.
But I didn't decide it. Society does that, when the sorts of things in this article happen every day, and it only hits the news when the victim is photogenic or politically important somehow.

Protections need to be offered, then, to EVERYONE. Turning a blind eye when one group is persecuted ALSO does not solve the problem.
And this, indeed, is the logical conclusion I'm trying to draw a line to- As far as protection people from persecution and bullying goes, why needs to come second. Empathy for the victim and action being taken to stop the incident comes first.The people in charge of offering protection, the school in this case, need to be blind to human differences and just do their damn job. It doesn't matter if she was the most obnoxious person on the planet, it doesn't matter if she was gay. What matters is she was victimized.
 
2012-07-06 04:03:41 AM  
There's are two really easy solutions to bullying.

The first is to segregate them from society until they are grown adults or can be determined to be actual psychopaths.

The second is called beating the bully violently and fully. You may not want to accept it, but it's the tried and tested way to resolve it. Stripping people of their ability to defend themselves has, unfortunately, just led to more (and more vicious) bullying.

Or you can just keep letting egghead adults who think "it's a part of growing up" keep letting people be terrorized and tortured.

You're dealing with primates who are expressing primate behavior, going after the "weakest" (or most obnoxious) member of the pack. Contrary to popular opinion, some children and teenagers are very much reptile-brain monsters. You should treat them as such. You'd be surprised how big of a 180 a bully who has had the shiat kicked out of him turns around. And don't believe the tripe about "they're just insecure people who have abusive parents" -- it's scientifically disproved (but it sounds oh so nice, they're really just little sweeties who need more love!). They're incredibly confident people who like to inflict suffering on others to establish their place in the hierarchy.
 
2012-07-06 04:09:16 AM  

Moonlightfox: And this, indeed, is the logical conclusion I'm trying to draw a line to- As far as protection people from persecution and bullying goes, why needs to come second. Empathy for the victim and action being taken to stop the incident comes first.The people in charge of offering protection, the school in this case, need to be blind to human differences and just do their damn job. It doesn't matter if she was the most obnoxious person on the planet, it doesn't matter if she was gay. What matters is she was victimized.


Correct.

But it's easier to blame the victim for being annoying. I mean, don't you just hit every annoying person you meet in the head with pliers? What? You mean the actual (not whimsical) impulse to do that doesn't control you in regular life? Why, darn, you just must not be a kid. It makes sense that kids do that. They're just kids. Nope, no way at all some of those kids are psychopathic monsters who will turn into psychopathic adults. It's just "being kids!" I say let 'em all hit each other in the heads with pliers until the annoying ones figure out how to stop being annoying and play along with the normal ones. In fact, we ought to take all the annoying kids out, maybe make them wear some kind of badge, and hit them in the head with pliers just so they know their place. Then the bullies don't have to do it. It will be like, "Welcome to the real world!" And save them a history class or two.
 
2012-07-06 04:14:01 AM  
hey gimmick, know how i know you were home-schooled?
 
2012-07-06 04:14:02 AM  
To be fair, we are only getting the girl's version of events. I sincerely doubt it is the complete truth. Not outside the realm of possibility she is making mountains out of molehills because she wants the attention. She is a teenage girl afterall.
 
2012-07-06 04:18:17 AM  
I'm trying to figure out the whole "obnoxious to the point of deserving to be beat with a pair of pliers in the temple" thing. Is that what some poster here is actually arguing?

I mean, I've been annoyed by obnoxious people before, but taking a pair of pliers to their face was something I left to psychopaths.

What the fark?
 
2012-07-06 04:37:24 AM  

Radioactive Ass: I'm willing to bet that her being a lesbian was secondary to how she presented herself in general. If she was a general pain in the ass to the rest of the students it wouldn't matter if she was a virgin, a raging slut who blew the entire skiing team or a lesbian, she's going to attract unwanted attention. The response by the school indicates to me that she was an overall problem student with previous behavior issues who also happened to be gay. This is no different than someone trying to play the race card even though their race had nothing to do with an incident.


Ergo, she deserved the pliers to the face.
 
2012-07-06 04:38:22 AM  

FitzShivering: There's are two really easy solutions to bullying.

The first is to segregate them from society until they are grown adults or can be determined to be actual psychopaths.

The second is called beating the bully violently and fully. You may not want to accept it, but it's the tried and tested way to resolve it. Stripping people of their ability to defend themselves has, unfortunately, just led to more (and more vicious) bullying.

Or you can just keep letting egghead adults who think "it's a part of growing up" keep letting people be terrorized and tortured.

You're dealing with primates who are expressing primate behavior, going after the "weakest" (or most obnoxious) member of the pack. Contrary to popular opinion, some children and teenagers are very much reptile-brain monsters. You should treat them as such. You'd be surprised how big of a 180 a bully who has had the shiat kicked out of him turns around. And don't believe the tripe about "they're just insecure people who have abusive parents" -- it's scientifically disproved (but it sounds oh so nice, they're really just little sweeties who need more love!). They're incredibly confident people who like to inflict suffering on others to establish their place in the hierarchy.


Except that, while it may not be the vast majority of bullies that are abused, the one time you get that kid, fighting him is going to make it 1,000,000,000 times worse for you. An abused child who physically lashes out and becomes a bully is doing so because they've been stripped of every bit of power in their own life by their abuser. In entering the "real world" and going to school, they are exposed to a world of people who do not have complete and utter power over them, as expressed by violence, as they've learned it. A bully like this won't listen to a teacher, because he knows that teacher is not going to beat him. He's had worse. And a bully like this whose victim fights back, particularly if the victim wins, will double down on his aggression because he has experienced a feeling of personal power for the first time in his life and he is going to fight tooth and nail not to have it ripped away from him again. But bullying varies in degree and motivations. Some of it is primate posturing, establishing a heirarchy, but in extreme cases, there usually IS more to it. Now, there are a multitude of other reasons this bully girl could have been acting out. Perhaps her parents are vehemently (and perhaps even violently) opposed to homosexuality. Perhaps she's trying to fit in and be popular. Perhaps it's a case of the "at least I'm not..."s, as I like to call it (classic example - the Ewells from To Kill A Mockingbird... well established to be the trashiest, most hated, bottom of the barrel people in town - but they were white, so the town still rallied behind them against the black guy). There are a million possible reasons for it, and no, fighting back will not always stop it. Finding out the bully's motivations would give you a chance at stopping it, but most teachers don't have the time (or even really care enough) to look that deeply. Besides, we don't live in a rehabilitative society, we live in a retributive society. If they do ANYTHING, it's just to say "detention" and feel their work is done, knowing full well it's not going to put a stop to the situation.
 
2012-07-06 04:58:52 AM  

jodaveki: I'm trying to figure out the whole "obnoxious to the point of deserving to be beat with a pair of pliers in the temple" thing. Is that what some poster here is actually arguing?

I mean, I've been annoyed by obnoxious people before, but taking a pair of pliers to their face was something I left to psychopaths.

What the fark?


Actually, I think the majority of his ranting and outrage is about how he thinks the girl is trying to turn it into a hate crime by being a lesbian victim, instead of regular bullying (still bad) of an annoying girl who happens to be a lesbian.
 
2012-07-06 05:04:21 AM  

Paris1127: Sweden? Are we talking about the one in Europe? I thought Sweden was supposed to be a progressive nation... Even their state church conducts same-sex marriages... Hopefully this case is an anomaly...


You do realize most of the "well that country is way better at X than we are" is BS, right? We are the most heterogeneous country, so the intolerance stands out, but it is much LESS here because of it. Most places are pretty bad when it comes to people who arent like them.
 
2012-07-06 05:07:20 AM  

chaosweaver: jodaveki: I'm trying to figure out the whole "obnoxious to the point of deserving to be beat with a pair of pliers in the temple" thing. Is that what some poster here is actually arguing?

I mean, I've been annoyed by obnoxious people before, but taking a pair of pliers to their face was something I left to psychopaths.

What the fark?

Actually, I think the majority of his ranting and outrage is about how he thinks the girl is trying to turn it into a hate crime by being a lesbian victim, instead of regular bullying (still bad) of an annoying girl who happens to be a lesbian.


What a strange case to make. I'm not too keen on the whole hate enhancement thing, but at this point GIRL TOOK PLIERS TO HER FACE should override just about everything.
 
2012-07-06 05:07:40 AM  

dletter: Paris1127: Sweden? Are we talking about the one in Europe? I thought Sweden was supposed to be a progressive nation... Even their state church conducts same-sex marriages... Hopefully this case is an anomaly...

That is what I was going to say... I thought all those Scandinavian countries were super progressive. Or maybe I am just thinking about Amsterdam.


Well, Norway has a bible belt and I have no trouble imagining something like this happening there. Maybe the same goes for Sweden?

/gods makes people stupid and violent
 
2012-07-06 05:09:09 AM  

Modguy: Ergo, she deserved the pliers to the face.


You missed the part where I said that I didn't condone that behavior.
 
2012-07-06 05:11:47 AM  
As much as I'd like to be all "oh, no, how dare they be such dicks", a few years teaching middle/high school actually makes my first reaction an assumption that the paper is leaving out part of the story where the "victim" blatantly physically assaults all the people that she later claims are "bullying" her.

The whole "my story is in no way verifiable even though every school in the first world has had essentially full video coverage since the mid '90s" aspect of the complaint doesn't really do her any favors, either statistically or in terms of the actual math around miscreance.
 
2012-07-06 05:12:27 AM  

Gimmick: In the absence of any collaborating evidence, I find that difficult to believe. Teenagers (kids in general, really) are notorious for being full of shiat, and that is quite an incredible story. I simply cannot imagine teachers and principals apathetically looking on while their students beat one another with tools.


Sadly, I have no problem imagining that at all. Far too many teachers just do not give a shiat about their students. All is well as long as the monthly paychecks are on time and nobody disturbs their coffee breaks.
 
2012-07-06 05:14:21 AM  

Uncle Tractor: Gimmick: In the absence of any collaborating evidence, I find that difficult to believe. Teenagers (kids in general, really) are notorious for being full of shiat, and that is quite an incredible story. I simply cannot imagine teachers and principals apathetically looking on while their students beat one another with tools.

Sadly, I have no problem imagining that at all. Far too many teachers just do not give a shiat about their students. All is well as long as the monthly paychecks are on time and nobody disturbs their coffee breaks.


That's one of the fundamental flaws of capitalism though... having a calling vs. "a job". So long as the goal is "make money," people aren't going to be doing things because they care. There are exceptions, of course, but they are not the norm. I find that most teachers DON'T give a sh*t as long as they get to go home at 2:30.
 
2012-07-06 05:15:19 AM  

I had Snu Snu: I'd hate to think that anyone actually believes that Sweden is a happy fairy tale. But while I can't speak for everyone else, I look at it relatively. Compared to, say, the US, it's freaking Candyland. But then again, compared to necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonia ain't so bad. It's all relative.

Oh wow a dig at America, you are so witty and edgy


A bit thin-skinned, no?

/USA USA USA
 
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