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(ESPN)   Garmin denies bans, inexplicable right hand turns   (espn.go.com) divider line 13
    More: Followup, Garmin, United States Anti-Doping Agency, BMC Software, George Hincapie, doping ban, newspapers in the Netherlands, Johan Bruyneel, Tour de France  
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1408 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Jul 2012 at 5:46 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-05 05:47:58 PM  
One nut is so obviously guilty.
 
2012-07-05 06:00:27 PM  
I know one thing, Michele Steele needs a better bra.
 
2012-07-05 06:10:54 PM  
"Recalculating...."
 
2012-07-05 06:14:48 PM  
I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money to try to prosecute them with the evidence (or lack of) that they have. Can we move on already?
 
2012-07-05 06:18:50 PM  

consider this: One nut is so obviously guilty.


Knowing and proving are two different things.

bborchar: I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money to try to prosecute them with the evidence (or lack of) that they have. Can we move on already?


And this^^ x10
 
2012-07-05 06:50:54 PM  
If everyone in cycling was doping in the mid-90s to mid-00s, and Armstrong still did what he did, does that diminish his greatness?
 
2012-07-05 06:52:28 PM  
fubegra.net
 
2012-07-05 09:07:57 PM  

relaxitsjustme: consider this: One nut is so obviously guilty.

Knowing and proving are two different things.

bborchar: I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money to try to prosecute them with the evidence (or lack of) that they have. Can we move on already?

And this^^ x10


The Tours and Giros in Europe haven't operated under an anti trust exemption for close to a century in these here United States as far as I know.

Whether or not those entities turned a blind eye to cheating in search of the Almighty Dollar is a question I don't have the answer to, but the evidence is pretty clear that's exactly what Bud Selig and the owners chose to do.

Other than than that, spot on commentary!
 
2012-07-06 01:31:13 AM  

bborchar: I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money to try to prosecute them with the evidence (or lack of) that they have. Can we move on already?


No-one was prosecuted for using steroids in baseball. The Bonds and Clemens prosecutions were for lying about it under oath - to Congress or a Grand Jury - which is an entirely different matter, and something lawmakers take far more seriously than cheating at sports. Ask Bill Clinton.

So no-one will prosecute Lance Armstrong unless he perjures himself. But its absolutely right to try and bring out the apparent truth (doping was as widespread at USPS as it was in the rest of the peloton, and happened with Armstrong's knowledge and consent).

Armstrong's Tour wins are every bit as tainted as Pantani, Ullrich, Contador, Landis et al.
 
2012-07-06 12:47:31 PM  
This 6 month suspension deal is pure rumor. I've not seen anything backing the Dutch newspaper report. All the stories cite that paper.

bborchar
I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money

This.

gwowen
Armstrong's Tour wins are every bit as tainted as Pantani, Ullrich, Contador, Landis et al.

But there are a huge number of people, including many cycling fans, who have a giant hard on for nailing Armstrong. They want all seven TdF titles stripped and don't seem to give a damn that that would mean giving those victories to other dopers. It's about crushing Armstrong to them.

With one exception, every single rider who finished 2nd or 3rd during Armstrong's 7 TdF wins has been linked to doping. Most have served suspensions for it. If the USADA can really prove their case, okay, but rewriting the results back to 1999 would be as stupid as striking all those years in baseball from the record.

Also, why not go even further back? Riis already admitted himself to doping (1996 TdF winner). They at first stripped his title from the record, but later put it back. As the EPO era started in the early '90s and its such a huge boost it's extraordinarily unlikely a rider would have won the TdF back then without it, what about Indurain? I don't see people demanding we investigate his '91 thru '95 victories.

Hell, Eddy Merckx was even caught doping back in his day. He's still celebrated as the greatest professional cyclist of all time. So I'm looking at a bunch of hypocrites amongst cycling fans who so badly want to get Amrstrong.
 
2012-07-06 02:56:00 PM  

patrick767: This 6 month suspension deal is pure rumor. I've not seen anything backing the Dutch newspaper report. All the stories cite that paper.

bborchar
I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money

This.

gwowen
Armstrong's Tour wins are every bit as tainted as Pantani, Ullrich, Contador, Landis et al.

But there are a huge number of people, including many cycling fans, who have a giant hard on for nailing Armstrong. They want all seven TdF titles stripped and don't seem to give a damn that that would mean giving those victories to other dopers. It's about crushing Armstrong to them.

With one exception, every single rider who finished 2nd or 3rd during Armstrong's 7 TdF wins has been linked to doping. Most have served suspensions for it. If the USADA can really prove their case, okay, but rewriting the results back to 1999 would be as stupid as striking all those years in baseball from the record.

Also, why not go even further back? Riis already admitted himself to doping (1996 TdF winner). They at first stripped his title from the record, but later put it back. As the EPO era started in the early '90s and its such a huge boost it's extraordinarily unlikely a rider would have won the TdF back then without it, what about Indurain? I don't see people demanding we investigate his '91 thru '95 victories.

Hell, Eddy Merckx was even caught doping back in his day. He's still celebrated as the greatest professional cyclist of all time. So I'm looking at a bunch of hypocrites amongst cycling fans who so badly want to get Amrstrong.


I'm convinced that the USADA will still be going after Lance Armstrong in 2025. Their hard-on is that big.
 
2012-07-06 09:15:47 PM  

patrick767: This 6 month suspension deal is pure rumor. I've not seen anything backing the Dutch newspaper report. All the stories cite that paper.

bborchar
I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money

This.

gwowen
Armstrong's Tour wins are every bit as tainted as Pantani, Ullrich, Contador, Landis et al.

But there are a huge number of people, including many cycling fans, who have a giant hard on for nailing Armstrong. They want all seven TdF titles stripped and don't seem to give a damn that that would mean giving those victories to other dopers. It's about crushing Armstrong to them.

With one exception, every single rider who finished 2nd or 3rd during Armstrong's 7 TdF wins has been linked to doping. Most have served suspensions for it. If the USADA can really prove their case, okay, but rewriting the results back to 1999 would be as stupid as striking all those years in baseball from the record.

Also, why not go even further back? Riis already admitted himself to doping (1996 TdF winner). They at first stripped his title from the record, but later put it back. As the EPO era started in the early '90s and its such a huge boost it's extraordinarily unlikely a rider would have won the TdF back then without it, what about Indurain? I don't see people demanding we investigate his '91 thru '95 victories.

Hell, Eddy Merckx was even caught doping back in his day. He's still celebrated as the greatest professional cyclist of all time. So I'm looking at a bunch of hypocrites amongst cycling fans who so badly want to get Amrstrong.


Really? The cycling fans I know no longer give a shait about it and would rather see the issue die already. Every baseball thread doesn't have a bunch of trolls popping up screaming Sosa McGuire Dopers. I don't even think UCI gives a shait anymore but Novitsky has to try to justify spending millions somehow. Once he realized he didn't have enough to take to court he shoved his pile of paperwork over to the USADA and said sic em.
 
rka
2012-07-07 02:10:14 AM  

gwowen: bborchar: I look at this situation the same as I looked at the baseball/steroids cases...yes, they probably did it, but it is a HUGE waste of money to try to prosecute them with the evidence (or lack of) that they have. Can we move on already?

No-one was prosecuted for using steroids in baseball. The Bonds and Clemens prosecutions were for lying about it under oath - to Congress or a Grand Jury - which is an entirely different matter, and something lawmakers take far more seriously than cheating at sports. Ask Bill Clinton.

So no-one will prosecute Lance Armstrong unless he perjures himself. But its absolutely right to try and bring out the apparent truth (doping was as widespread at USPS as it was in the rest of the peloton, and happened with Armstrong's knowledge and consent).

Armstrong's Tour wins are every bit as tainted as Pantani, Ullrich, Contador, Landis et al.


Perjures himself to whom? What's the USADA going to do? Ban Armstrong from competing? They are not a court. They are not the law. They are not Congress or even a government agency.

They can squeeze still-active riders but all they can do is piss Armstrong off. They don't have any powers over him. He's retired.
 
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