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(Talking Points Memo)   Turns out, the states that are trying to battle Obamacare have the highest number of uninsured residents   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 52
    More: Obvious, obamacare, United States, Kaiser Family Foundation, universal health care  
•       •       •

2867 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jul 2012 at 1:25 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-07-05 01:48:52 PM  
5 votes:
The one thing that Republicans continue to do really well is to constantly get just enough average people to vote against their own best interests. It never ceases to amaze me.

The rest of the world must be laughing their asses off at us. We can build a new nuclear SuperCarrier every few years, along with spacecraft, submarines, unbelievable aircraft and deploy & sustain huge military units in South Korea, Japan, Germany, Afghanistan, the Middle East, England, Italy and many other countries for decades at stretch.

We have more billionaires and millionaires than any other country and yet when it comes to getting basic healthcare to the common folks we look like a bunch of retards trying to hump a dooknob.

Seriouly America, EVERYBODY else has figured this out. Yet you still cower in fear of the boogey-men that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck pullout of their asses. Get your act together America.
2012-07-05 09:53:25 AM  
4 votes:
Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.
2012-07-05 05:44:43 PM  
2 votes:
In Oklahoma there are two political ads that stick out to me:

1) The Democrat saying stuff that I can't remember, but proving his good 'ol boy-ism by taking out a rifle and shooting a target at the end of the ad.

2) The Republican was notable for saying "the first thing I'm going to do when elected is go to Washington and appeal Obamacare"

We deserve everything we get.
2012-07-05 02:02:52 PM  
2 votes:
Hospital conglomerates make generous campaign contributions in Florida. One of the most generous is HCA, which Rick Scott used to run. They have been very generous to Republican candidates, especially ones that educated people might call "extreme."

The influence of their contributions can be seen in how Florida is now going to managed care for Medicaid.

But, HCA hospitals (and all others) lose a lot of money when someone is poor and uninsured.

They will almost certainly give their money, this time, to candidates that favor expansion of Medicaid. This will be true in state legislative races in 2012, and in the governor's race in 2014.

In other words, Rick and other governors of his ilk have a very small window of time before they start to lose their benefactors. Looking like a partisan hardass on TV may play well for votes, but it's not going to get you advertising time in October, not this time.
2012-07-05 01:47:46 PM  
2 votes:
[W]e have to remember that this is an ideological and even a moral issue to conservatives, who view dependence on any form of public assistance as eroding the "moral fiber" of the poor (as Paul Ryan likes to put it), and as corrupting the country through empowerment of big government as a redistributor of wealth from virtuous taxpayers to parasites who will perpetually vote themselves more of other people's money. This line of "reasoning," of course, would justify the abolition of Medicaid, not just a failure to expand it, but conservatives are careful (and smart) to disguise that ultimate goal and simply suggest we have reached some sort of welfare-state tipping point beyond which we become Greece. Link
2012-07-05 01:40:14 PM  
2 votes:
This is one of those things I just can't even begin to understand. How can a group of people as large as a state's voting bloc be so naive as to do something like this when their state is the beneficiary. The only thing I can even begin to think that could cause this type of behavior is the mistaken belief that if people less well off than you have their standard of living improved that it somehow detracts from your own.

I just don't get it. I don't get how or why these people are so insistent upon shooting themselves in the foot. We're willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to fight foreign wars that leave us with nothing but wounded veterans and deep debts but we're not willing to spend a little to improve the lives of American citizens within our own borders?

It's just mind boggling....
2012-07-05 01:30:25 PM  
2 votes:
F*ck them, then. Voters in those states get what they vote for.

Like my parents b*tching about Obamacare just weeks after one of them was able to get surgery THANKS TO OBAMACARE.

Republican propaganda is effective.
2012-07-05 01:26:45 PM  
2 votes:
They also have high obesity rates, std rates, lowest IQs.

Basically Republicans.
2012-07-05 01:26:21 PM  
2 votes:

SphericalTime: chimp_ninja: 3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

I can't believe that there are questions on there that got 25% correct answer rates. Unbelievable.


It doesn't surprise me. People like Bachman and other Conservatives have been continually saying the complete opposite to most of these points. If Conservatives are truly following the right-wing speaking points, they shouldn't be getting more than a quarter of them correct.
2012-07-05 12:44:07 PM  
2 votes:
Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.
2012-07-05 11:59:39 AM  
2 votes:

bdub77: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Why am I thinking so small with just a trunkful of doctors in a Charger?

I'm going to get a Trans Am to run interference so the Death Panel Enforcement Squad doesn't notice the tractor-trailer packed to the brim with doctors who'll only charge a few chickens to treat combine harvester injuries with Vitamin Jesus

Just be careful, the ATF is investigating docwalking. Just last week one of them was accidentally treated by one of these docs.


Poor guy. Now his name is Mudd.
2012-07-05 09:38:51 PM  
1 votes:

Epoch_Zero: Arkanaut: Turns out, the states that are trying to battle Obamacare have the highest number of uninsured residents FREEDOM

FTFY, commiemitter.

"We shall wrap all wounds in the American flag, which will quickly regenerate all injured flesh and provide a sweet, slightly citrus-like smell to those in the immediate area. Bald eagles - which naturally gather around any incarnation of the American flag - will then gently carry to the patient to a bed, where they shall exercise their mandatory second amendment rights. "


ilovethispostsomuch.jpeg
2012-07-05 08:06:03 PM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah: From a president who said the stimulus would take unemployment to 5.4%, that the annual deficit would be cut in half and we would create 500,000 jobs last summer, i am sure his budget advisers are spot on with their projections.


Honestly man, you barely got into that talking point before you pulled a massive lie.
2012-07-05 07:07:59 PM  
1 votes:

EnviroDude: turns out they have a lot of medicare patients too and the thought of having to do more without government reimbursement will bankrupt them


You know, you are lying again. Almost all of the expanded medicare for the poor is paid for by the federal government for the expansion.
2012-07-05 07:04:46 PM  
1 votes:

Sybarite: My state has a measure that will appear on the ballot this fall that would forbid the setup of an insurance exchange by the state. I can pretty much guarantee it will pass.


Which means they will go into the federal program. Great so see that this people love the federal government so much and don't trust the state government.
2012-07-05 06:29:16 PM  
1 votes:
"everybody"
2012-07-05 06:28:41 PM  
1 votes:

Pfft!: meat0918: Sybarite: My state has a measure that will appear on the ballot this fall that would forbid the setup of an insurance exchange by the state. I can pretty much guarantee it will pass.

Oregon on the other hand just about has their's up. Link

It seems every few months I find a new reason to be damn proud to live in Oregon.
After reading the article and looking at the map, I had 2 thoughts:
1) Wow, Oregon has a higher uninsured rate than I thought it would (but obviously doing things to rectify it)
2) People in states with conservative leaders who are going to pass up on medicaid expansion and insurance exchanges deserve what they get. They voted them in, they can suffer the consequences. Besides, hopefully this is a case of "survival of the fittest" and those who shoot themselves in the foot fade away.


Oregon does okay, but the state health insurance system is so overwhelmed that they have to resort to a lottery system to allot care. Having the ability for every needing insurance to get it will be a boon.
2012-07-05 05:24:43 PM  
1 votes:

zimbach: I got 10 of 10 correct, and I'm just some slacker weirdo. I guess other people don't have time to learn stuff because they have things to do.


The people who score low on this quiz, and who actually believe that a bureaucratic panel is going to decide to put down Grandma, do not suffer from a lack of free time. They have plenty, and spend it in the wrong places.
2012-07-05 04:59:37 PM  
1 votes:
It can't be stressed hard enough that progressives living in these states should be volunteering with local and state campaigns to produce candidates to VOTE OUT the selfish and short-sighted people in office that oppose this.

I know, I know, none of you have 'time' for politics. Really? Even hardcore FPT junkies like yourselves?
2012-07-05 04:07:01 PM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Some people actually realize that they dont want to see the day where their kids owe $100k on the national debt as soon as they get out of the womb, yet they are chided by FarkLibs as 'voting against their best interests'


Rather have your kid go bankrupt from an out of control hospital bill? I mean, it's one thing to talk about the national economy, it's another thing to say you support fixing it, but without addressing the number one cause of personal bankruptcies. One party is trying to get costs under control by moving care from ER to clinic settings and paying a penny for prevention instead of a pound for cure, the other is rushing to go back to the status quo and says that 30 million uninsured Americans, and the biggest sector inflation of any "isn't an issue" (thanks, McConnell). If you want to get serious about the national debt, then why are you against the first restructuring of Medicare that makes it more cost-effective? Aside from that, if the debt is the number one issue, do we really want to vote for a guy who says he'll cut taxes and increase the military size by another 100k men? Is that our solution to everything, more big government, but we just don't want the kind that might accidentally help someone?
2012-07-05 04:06:28 PM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Some people actually realize that they dont want to see the day where their kids owe $100k on the national debt as soon as they get out of the womb, yet they are chided by FarkLibs as 'voting against their best interests'


But...but...we got to spend billions on all the new shiny toys for the Defense department!

Mitt Romney and the GOP told me so!
2012-07-05 04:03:06 PM  
1 votes:
So, I think it will all work out fine anyways... Some of these states that are rabidly anti-anything Obama will, no doubt, not expand medicaid... some of them will end up in the program where the federal government sets up the exchange because a state failed to do so... but they'll still have hordes of low-wage labor uninsured because of the lack of medicaid expansion (don't worry, if you can't get healthcare through your employer that costs less than 8% of your paycheck, or if you're below the poverty limits, you are exempt from the penalty)... so low wage workers will have a choice... do they want to live in states with crumbling service sectors where their family has no healthcare, or will they go to states that treat them decently even though they are poor... I have a feeling this will be a rehash of some of the anti-immigrant bills, and you'll see some states entirely drain their own supply of low-wage labor for things like farming, retail, and food service, all just to show how bootstrappy they are.
2012-07-05 03:58:15 PM  
1 votes:
Well of course the states with the most uninsured want to fight universal insurance. They are run by insurance company lackeys who want to use that uninsured status against people. Then they can dictate to the serfs who is and isn't privileged enough to be allowed affordable health care.
2012-07-05 03:36:50 PM  
1 votes:

GentDirkly: thornhill: Not accepting the Medicaid expansion money is absolutely incredible. It comes with no strings and is paid for by the federal government. Denying millions of people health insurance so that you can score points with the tea party is just disgusting.

Not entirely true. A contribution from the state is required. It's 5% at first, then ramps up to 10%, IIRC.


A very small price to pay for what will help provide health insurance to literally millions of people in some of these states (in Texas, for instance, it will cover 1.5 million people). Putting aside the whole moral issue, it makes good economic sense.
2012-07-05 02:45:25 PM  
1 votes:

coeyagi: GentDirkly: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Like the map?

Tip your waitress.

Wow, you really want us to pull up stats to prove that? Jesus, you are either a troll (most likely) or a glutton for punishment.


I interpreted it as a joke about how the states trying to battle Obamacare were at the actual bottom of the map. You know, the South.
2012-07-05 02:41:01 PM  
1 votes:

The Name: Edsel: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.

This is going to sound very Confederacy-esque, but I've been wondering for a while if it would be possible for blue states to form some sort of association to protect their interests against the red states. Something that says, "Yes, we'll still send Reps and Senators to Congress and pay our federal taxes and all that jazz, but otherwise we're going to work together directly to see that Republican policies have as little impact as possible on our states."

They could do things like:

1) Offer state-funded tuition assistance to college students from other blue states, while taxing red-state students to help fund primary education.

2) Coordinate to vote for lower federal taxes while simultaneously raising state taxes (if necessary) to pay for things like state-wide universal healthcare.

. . . well, those are the only two ideas I have so far, and I'm not even sure if they are constitutional. All I know is that I'm sick of blue states having to go along with backwards Teabagger policies just because we're stuck in this unhappy marriage called the United States.


We could do that by simply passing a law that states that the federal government cannot spend more money in any given state than that state provides in federal revenues.

Come to think of it, that would be a fantastic bill for a "fiscal conservative" to introduce. Imagine the mental gymnastics from the Tea Party Caucus.
2012-07-05 02:39:39 PM  
1 votes:

SphericalTime: mrshowrules: SphericalTime: chimp_ninja: 3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

I can't believe that there are questions on there that got 25% correct answer rates. Unbelievable.

It doesn't surprise me. People like Bachman and other Conservatives have been continually saying the complete opposite to most of these points. If Conservatives are truly following the right-wing speaking points, they shouldn't be getting more than a quarter of them correct.

The 25% was among Americans, not just conservatives. That means that half of the independents and liberals got those particular questions wrong as well.


Everytime I turn on CNN, Bachman is blabbering away. Conservatives are clearly winning the propaganda war on both sides politically. They old rule of making the lie as big as possible. Some people will believe the big lie, others will assume it just exaggerated

Bachman: Obamacare will destroy all small businesses.

What people believe:
1) Tea Party: Yes, this is true
2) Conservatives: it will be very bad for most small businesses
3) Independents/Moderates: it might hurt many small businesses
4) Liberals: the impact to small businesses will me minor
5) Truth: Obamacare does not apply to small businesses
2012-07-05 02:36:22 PM  
1 votes:

Edsel: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.


This is going to sound very Confederacy-esque, but I've been wondering for a while if it would be possible for blue states to form some sort of association to protect their interests against the red states. Something that says, "Yes, we'll still send Reps and Senators to Congress and pay our federal taxes and all that jazz, but otherwise we're going to work together directly to see that Republican policies have as little impact as possible on our states."

They could do things like:

1) Offer state-funded tuition assistance to college students from other blue states, while taxing red-state students to help fund primary education.

2) Coordinate to vote for lower federal taxes while simultaneously raising state taxes (if necessary) to pay for things like state-wide universal healthcare.

. . . well, those are the only two ideas I have so far, and I'm not even sure if they are constitutional. All I know is that I'm sick of blue states having to go along with backwards Teabagger policies just because we're stuck in this unhappy marriage called the United States.
2012-07-05 02:06:15 PM  
1 votes:

Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.


Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.
2012-07-05 02:01:11 PM  
1 votes:

Vegan Meat Popsicle: This is one of those things I just can't even begin to understand. How can a group of people as large as a state's voting bloc be so naive as to do something like this when their state is the beneficiary. The only thing I can even begin to think that could cause this type of behavior is the mistaken belief that if people less well off than you have their standard of living improved that it somehow detracts from your own.

I just don't get it. I don't get how or why these people are so insistent upon shooting themselves in the foot. We're willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to fight foreign wars that leave us with nothing but wounded veterans and deep debts but we're not willing to spend a little to improve the lives of American citizens within our own borders?

It's just mind boggling....


Lack of education combined with a willingness to blindly follow authority*

*unless they're black
2012-07-05 02:00:18 PM  
1 votes:

timujin: Farkers, it turned out, were pretty well versed in what is in the Act


And I note once more, it's quite disturbing that Fark apparently tends to be more informative than News.

beerspill.fark.com
2012-07-05 01:53:40 PM  
1 votes:
And in a few years when more and more get sick and then go bankrupt with medical bills, they will pitch a biatch and the same state leaders who opt'ed out their state will tell them its all Obama's fault. AND THEY WILL BELIEVE IT!

/Live from Florida; my state sucks.
// If you do saw it off let me know.
2012-07-05 01:51:58 PM  
1 votes:
The US spends at least $600 every second on the so-called "War on Drugs"

How many people do drugs kill each year (the drugs themselves, not gang wars) and how many people does a crappy medical/health insurance system kill each year? I.E. which is the bigger threat to American lives?

The US could drastically lower medical/health costs by going to a universal system and implementing wide-spread preventative care, but I'm sure Republicans would find a way to claim that's being a nanny state or something of the sort.
2012-07-05 01:46:07 PM  
1 votes:
Oh. And I got 10/10 on the quiz. It deeply disturbs me that that majority of people are getting anything less. Those are all very basic and very obvious things in the law that everyone should know and if you get anything less you probably shouldn't have an opinion on it yet.

That anybody who can vote is getting less than say 7/10 is distressing. That the vast majority of people are getting less than that is outright terrifying.

That anybody thinks "death panels" are a real thing is just.... just mind-boggling.
2012-07-05 01:45:40 PM  
1 votes:

LucklessWonder: 9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS


The states still have the option to expand Medicaid, paid at first 100% by the feds, then reduced to 90%.

The SCOTUS ruled that the feds still have to offer the existing Medicaid program as well. Their reasoning was that the expanded Medicaid is actually an entire new program, and the feds can't try to get the states to participate in the new program by removing the old program.
2012-07-05 01:41:49 PM  
1 votes:

LucklessWonder: chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.

9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS


If I understand it correctly, it wasn't exactly overturned. They made it optional instead of mandatory, but the general expansion is still there.
2012-07-05 01:40:01 PM  
1 votes:

Millennium: Um, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't it be kind of expected for a law to be opposed mainly by people who would (at least in their own perception) be affected by it?


Well, there are two misapprehensions, one is that they'll be affected by it (and they might not be) but the second is that being affected by it will have a negative effect on their life.

Both need to be wrong to have a negative opinion of the law, and apparently most people have do in fact have a negative opinion of the law.

Dr Dreidel: Won't that make it cheaper nationwide?

Southern states = poorer states = fatter states = more uninsured states

So they'd need more federal funds to combat a higher incidence of health problems over a larger un- (or under-) insured population anyway? How is is bad for the rest of us if they refuse to get less of our tax dollars?

// I mean, except for the morans fighting against their own interests and putting themselves at greater health risk


As a liberal, it hurts me to see people getting screwed by their political beliefs. We have a moral obligation to do what is best for our society after seeing to our own needs because we would hope the same care and comfort would be given to us. As a realist, it hurts me even more that I have to pay for their idiocy as they fight higher levels of insurance coverage.
2012-07-05 01:36:59 PM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS
2012-07-05 01:35:04 PM  
1 votes:
I got 9 out of 10, haven't read the thing, and I'm not an American. So people failing this have to be really dumb

/got #5 wrong, for the record.
2012-07-05 01:33:44 PM  
1 votes:
Won't that make it cheaper nationwide?

Southern states = poorer states = fatter states = more uninsured states

So they'd need more federal funds to combat a higher incidence of health problems over a larger un- (or under-) insured population anyway? How is is bad for the rest of us if they refuse to get less of our tax dollars?

// I mean, except for the morans fighting against their own interests and putting themselves at greater health risk
2012-07-05 01:29:53 PM  
1 votes:
Of course they are against it. They would finally have to pay a little into the system rather than freeload through the emergency room and have those of us that can afford to pay the doctor foot portions of their bills.
2012-07-05 01:18:11 PM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


I highlighted the most interesting aspect to me. This means you can literally say Fox viewers are more ignorant than ("anything here") and the statement would be true.
2012-07-05 01:13:01 PM  
1 votes:

Sybarite: My state has a measure that will appear on the ballot this fall that would forbid the setup of an insurance exchange by the state. I can pretty much guarantee it will pass.


Oregon on the other hand just about has their's up. Link
2012-07-05 01:12:26 PM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


Yeah, this was a thread a few days ago. Farkers, it turned out, were pretty well versed in what is in the Act, a lot of us got "You answered 10 out of 10 questions correctly, better than 99.6% of Americans."
2012-07-05 01:12:14 PM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


I just got a 10 out of 10. Not a single one of those questions was difficult to answer, or misleading in any way. If you've been paying any attention you should be getting almost all of them correct.
2012-07-05 12:59:32 PM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


The key takeaway is that women and old people are dumb. And considering how many people on fark got 10/10...it's pretty amazing how dumb other people are. I mean in a survey with 10 questions and only two possible answers per question (if you don't count I don't know which is an automatic 0) farking monkeys have better probability outcomes...it's quite mind boggling.
2012-07-05 12:10:31 PM  
1 votes:

Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.


religions.pewforum.org
2012-07-05 12:00:30 PM  
1 votes:
This is one of those times where I look to the state south of me and say "thank god I'm not them".

/I'm sure Michigan does the same thing
2012-07-05 09:56:40 AM  
1 votes:

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Dodge only made six of the Charge, you know. The ChargeR was after they went all corporate.


The R stands for "Racin"
2012-07-05 09:56:01 AM  
1 votes:
My state has a measure that will appear on the ballot this fall that would forbid the setup of an insurance exchange by the state. I can pretty much guarantee it will pass.
2012-07-05 09:46:28 AM  
1 votes:
I'm moving to Georgia with my cousin and starting a business where we use the trunk of a '69 Dodge Charge to smuggle free-market doctors across the county line.
2012-07-05 09:40:45 AM  
1 votes:
That's because they're the most bootstrappy.
 
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