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(Talking Points Memo)   Turns out, the states that are trying to battle Obamacare have the highest number of uninsured residents   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, obamacare, United States, Kaiser Family Foundation, universal health care  
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2875 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jul 2012 at 1:25 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-05 01:41:27 PM  
Obamacare was put into effect with blunt force trauma, like a doctor performing intricate brain surgery with a long handled shovel. The proceedure cracked the skull and killed the patient with the first big swing, as surely as a surgically placed bullet from the gun of a skilled assassin. In this case the assassin wore a black rope, and his gun was a black ink pen held behind a tall bench in the highest court of the land.
 
2012-07-05 01:41:49 PM  

LucklessWonder: chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.

9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS


If I understand it correctly, it wasn't exactly overturned. They made it optional instead of mandatory, but the general expansion is still there.
 
2012-07-05 01:41:55 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: The only thing I can even begin to think that could cause this type of behavior is the mistaken belief that if people less well off than you have their standard of living improved that it somehow detracts from your own.


That's exactly it. The same people are also the ones that see gay marriage as an affront to their own.
 
2012-07-05 01:42:59 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I just don't get it. I don't get how or why these people are so insistent upon shooting themselves in the foot.


It seems like they've turned "personal responsibility" into a denial of society.
 
2012-07-05 01:45:20 PM  
Above all, I will not comply.

I will not purchase your shiny tokens that contribute to my own demise.

Obamacare may be the law of the land, but it's mandate will not become part of my individual landscape. I refuse to let it's pox visit my house. The responsibility and condition of my health, and my health care, belong to me, and to the people who truly care. It does not belong to the flashy carnival barkers or your rabid and slobbering junkyard dogs.
 
2012-07-05 01:45:38 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-05 01:45:40 PM  

LucklessWonder: 9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS


The states still have the option to expand Medicaid, paid at first 100% by the feds, then reduced to 90%.

The SCOTUS ruled that the feds still have to offer the existing Medicaid program as well. Their reasoning was that the expanded Medicaid is actually an entire new program, and the feds can't try to get the states to participate in the new program by removing the old program.
 
2012-07-05 01:45:42 PM  

SphericalTime: LucklessWonder: chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.

9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS

If I understand it correctly, it wasn't exactly overturned. They made it optional instead of mandatory, but the general expansion is still there.


Ah, okay. I wasn't entirely sure, and it's been hard to filter facts out of the partisan caterwauling, which is why i went with an honest "don't know" there. Of course, I imagine my state won't take the option because it's a state that votes for festering boils such as Eric Cantor, Bob McDonnell and AG Cuccinelli
 
2012-07-05 01:46:07 PM  
Oh. And I got 10/10 on the quiz. It deeply disturbs me that that majority of people are getting anything less. Those are all very basic and very obvious things in the law that everyone should know and if you get anything less you probably shouldn't have an opinion on it yet.

That anybody who can vote is getting less than say 7/10 is distressing. That the vast majority of people are getting less than that is outright terrifying.

That anybody thinks "death panels" are a real thing is just.... just mind-boggling.
 
2012-07-05 01:46:42 PM  

SphericalTime: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I just don't get it. I don't get how or why these people are so insistent upon shooting themselves in the foot.

It seems like they've turned "personal responsibility" into a denial of society.


they are pro i can shoot myself in the foot if i want to, but you can't do that in the bedroom...
 
2012-07-05 01:47:19 PM  

Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.


Overall, among farkers ACA turns out to be pretty popular.

www.myqwip.com
(click on image to vote in new window)

Now for the breakdown city by city, guess where the votes lie? Click Here.
 
2012-07-05 01:47:24 PM  

Deftoons: It seems the health care debate has turned into a health insurance debate. What's the core issue is cost, not necessarily insurance.


Well, yeah, it has. There's nowhere near enough political will to, say, enforce strict price caps on what doctors can charge (what the inexplicably-libertarian-boner-producing microstate of Singapore does). Or do any of a hundred other things to fight costs per se.

So, we have to go for second- and third-order effects. Ugly. PPACA will eventually lead to a decent portion of the population in 'exchange' plans, where there's at least a tiny bit of market competition. Most Americans see zero competition, since they get their plans at work and don't choose their jobs based on the insurance provider. Massachusetts is the most competitive insurance market in the country.

The ideal, then, is that competing in price means that the insurers will fight for a good deal. Or threaten to break the network affiliation. The reality is that it's harder than that. Much medicine is hospital-based. In most places under 100,000, there's one hospital. No one will sign up for a plan that doesn't cover any hospital within 30 miles of them. So, that hospital continues to have near-monopoly pricing powers. Even in bigger areas people don't usually choose plans that limit them to, say, two of the five hospitals in a big city. And, with the medical-loss-ratio component of the law, the insurer has mixed incentives. Lower premiums might get more clients. But, 20% legal overhead on $5 Tylenols is better than 20% legal overhead on 20c Tylenols.

It's far from great. But, it really will help certain populations get into the system. And it lays the framework for some states to go single-payer/public option in time.
 
2012-07-05 01:47:46 PM  
[W]e have to remember that this is an ideological and even a moral issue to conservatives, who view dependence on any form of public assistance as eroding the "moral fiber" of the poor (as Paul Ryan likes to put it), and as corrupting the country through empowerment of big government as a redistributor of wealth from virtuous taxpayers to parasites who will perpetually vote themselves more of other people's money. This line of "reasoning," of course, would justify the abolition of Medicaid, not just a failure to expand it, but conservatives are careful (and smart) to disguise that ultimate goal and simply suggest we have reached some sort of welfare-state tipping point beyond which we become Greece. Link
 
2012-07-05 01:48:52 PM  
The one thing that Republicans continue to do really well is to constantly get just enough average people to vote against their own best interests. It never ceases to amaze me.

The rest of the world must be laughing their asses off at us. We can build a new nuclear SuperCarrier every few years, along with spacecraft, submarines, unbelievable aircraft and deploy & sustain huge military units in South Korea, Japan, Germany, Afghanistan, the Middle East, England, Italy and many other countries for decades at stretch.

We have more billionaires and millionaires than any other country and yet when it comes to getting basic healthcare to the common folks we look like a bunch of retards trying to hump a dooknob.

Seriouly America, EVERYBODY else has figured this out. Yet you still cower in fear of the boogey-men that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck pullout of their asses. Get your act together America.
 
2012-07-05 01:51:58 PM  
The US spends at least $600 every second on the so-called "War on Drugs"

How many people do drugs kill each year (the drugs themselves, not gang wars) and how many people does a crappy medical/health insurance system kill each year? I.E. which is the bigger threat to American lives?

The US could drastically lower medical/health costs by going to a universal system and implementing wide-spread preventative care, but I'm sure Republicans would find a way to claim that's being a nanny state or something of the sort.
 
2012-07-05 01:53:40 PM  
And in a few years when more and more get sick and then go bankrupt with medical bills, they will pitch a biatch and the same state leaders who opt'ed out their state will tell them its all Obama's fault. AND THEY WILL BELIEVE IT!

/Live from Florida; my state sucks.
// If you do saw it off let me know.
 
2012-07-05 01:57:54 PM  

Virulency: SphericalTime: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I just don't get it. I don't get how or why these people are so insistent upon shooting themselves in the foot.

It seems like they've turned "personal responsibility" into a denial of society.

they are pro i can shoot myself in the foot if i want to, but you can't do that in the bedroom...


"You can't tell me what to do, and that includes telling me to stop telling you what to do!"

Everyone usually likes the idea of being a dictator if they're the dictator.
 
2012-07-05 02:00:18 PM  

timujin: Farkers, it turned out, were pretty well versed in what is in the Act


And I note once more, it's quite disturbing that Fark apparently tends to be more informative than News.

beerspill.fark.com

 
2012-07-05 02:01:11 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: This is one of those things I just can't even begin to understand. How can a group of people as large as a state's voting bloc be so naive as to do something like this when their state is the beneficiary. The only thing I can even begin to think that could cause this type of behavior is the mistaken belief that if people less well off than you have their standard of living improved that it somehow detracts from your own.

I just don't get it. I don't get how or why these people are so insistent upon shooting themselves in the foot. We're willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to fight foreign wars that leave us with nothing but wounded veterans and deep debts but we're not willing to spend a little to improve the lives of American citizens within our own borders?

It's just mind boggling....


Lack of education combined with a willingness to blindly follow authority*

*unless they're black
 
2012-07-05 02:02:52 PM  
Hospital conglomerates make generous campaign contributions in Florida. One of the most generous is HCA, which Rick Scott used to run. They have been very generous to Republican candidates, especially ones that educated people might call "extreme."

The influence of their contributions can be seen in how Florida is now going to managed care for Medicaid.

But, HCA hospitals (and all others) lose a lot of money when someone is poor and uninsured.

They will almost certainly give their money, this time, to candidates that favor expansion of Medicaid. This will be true in state legislative races in 2012, and in the governor's race in 2014.

In other words, Rick and other governors of his ilk have a very small window of time before they start to lose their benefactors. Looking like a partisan hardass on TV may play well for votes, but it's not going to get you advertising time in October, not this time.
 
2012-07-05 02:03:16 PM  
Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

I'm guessing "gap between rich and poor" is not one of those things.
 
2012-07-05 02:03:17 PM  

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


100% what do I win?
 
2012-07-05 02:05:14 PM  

pat34us: chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.

100% what do I win?


Knowledge is its own reward.

/also a smug sense of superiority on the internet
 
2012-07-05 02:05:17 PM  

bdub77: chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.

The key takeaway is that women and old people are dumb. And considering how many people on fark got 10/10...it's pretty amazing how dumb other people are. I mean in a survey with 10 questions and only two possible answers per question (if you don't count I don't know which is an automatic 0) farking monkeys have better probability outcomes...it's quite mind boggling.


What the hell?? How does this prove women are dumb? I hope you're trolling.
 
2012-07-05 02:06:15 PM  

Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.


Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.
 
2012-07-05 02:09:32 PM  
Nothing says Teabagger/GOP by vehemently fighting something that is actually intended, and stands a least a halfway decent shot, at helping them.
 
2012-07-05 02:10:34 PM  
With such blatant evidence that nothing that the GOP does is good for their constituents, is it any wonder that they use Jesus as a weapon for propaganda like Lindsay Lohan uses Lifetime for coke?
 
2012-07-05 02:11:54 PM  

abb3w: timujin: Farkers, it turned out, were pretty well versed in what is in the Act

And I note once more, it's quite disturbing that Fark apparently tends to be more informative than News.

[beerspill.fark.com image 226x100]


It's not news, it's links.... to news.
 
2012-07-05 02:25:52 PM  

Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.


Like the map?

Tip your waitress.
 
2012-07-05 02:28:24 PM  

Rich Cream: Above all, I will not comply.

I will not purchase your shiny tokens that contribute to my own demise.

Obamacare may be the law of the land, but it's mandate will not become part of my individual landscape. I refuse to let it's pox visit my house. The responsibility and condition of my health, and my health care, belong to me, and to the people who truly care. It does not belong to the flashy carnival barkers or your rabid and slobbering junkyard dogs.


Here. I've given you what you want. Happy?
 
2012-07-05 02:35:31 PM  

GentDirkly: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Like the map?

Tip your waitress.


Wow, you really want us to pull up stats to prove that? Jesus, you are either a troll (most likely) or a glutton for punishment.
 
2012-07-05 02:36:22 PM  

Edsel: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.


This is going to sound very Confederacy-esque, but I've been wondering for a while if it would be possible for blue states to form some sort of association to protect their interests against the red states. Something that says, "Yes, we'll still send Reps and Senators to Congress and pay our federal taxes and all that jazz, but otherwise we're going to work together directly to see that Republican policies have as little impact as possible on our states."

They could do things like:

1) Offer state-funded tuition assistance to college students from other blue states, while taxing red-state students to help fund primary education.

2) Coordinate to vote for lower federal taxes while simultaneously raising state taxes (if necessary) to pay for things like state-wide universal healthcare.

. . . well, those are the only two ideas I have so far, and I'm not even sure if they are constitutional. All I know is that I'm sick of blue states having to go along with backwards Teabagger policies just because we're stuck in this unhappy marriage called the United States.
 
2012-07-05 02:37:58 PM  

mrshowrules: you can literally say Fox viewers are more ignorant than ("anything here") and the statement would be true.


No, they're just more well infromed than you fancy book learners.
 
2012-07-05 02:38:43 PM  
Well duh, the people in those states are obviously wealthy enough to pay their medical expenses out of pocket.
 
2012-07-05 02:39:39 PM  

SphericalTime: mrshowrules: SphericalTime: chimp_ninja: 3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

I can't believe that there are questions on there that got 25% correct answer rates. Unbelievable.

It doesn't surprise me. People like Bachman and other Conservatives have been continually saying the complete opposite to most of these points. If Conservatives are truly following the right-wing speaking points, they shouldn't be getting more than a quarter of them correct.

The 25% was among Americans, not just conservatives. That means that half of the independents and liberals got those particular questions wrong as well.


Everytime I turn on CNN, Bachman is blabbering away. Conservatives are clearly winning the propaganda war on both sides politically. They old rule of making the lie as big as possible. Some people will believe the big lie, others will assume it just exaggerated

Bachman: Obamacare will destroy all small businesses.

What people believe:
1) Tea Party: Yes, this is true
2) Conservatives: it will be very bad for most small businesses
3) Independents/Moderates: it might hurt many small businesses
4) Liberals: the impact to small businesses will me minor
5) Truth: Obamacare does not apply to small businesses
 
2012-07-05 02:41:01 PM  

The Name: Edsel: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.

This is going to sound very Confederacy-esque, but I've been wondering for a while if it would be possible for blue states to form some sort of association to protect their interests against the red states. Something that says, "Yes, we'll still send Reps and Senators to Congress and pay our federal taxes and all that jazz, but otherwise we're going to work together directly to see that Republican policies have as little impact as possible on our states."

They could do things like:

1) Offer state-funded tuition assistance to college students from other blue states, while taxing red-state students to help fund primary education.

2) Coordinate to vote for lower federal taxes while simultaneously raising state taxes (if necessary) to pay for things like state-wide universal healthcare.

. . . well, those are the only two ideas I have so far, and I'm not even sure if they are constitutional. All I know is that I'm sick of blue states having to go along with backwards Teabagger policies just because we're stuck in this unhappy marriage called the United States.


We could do that by simply passing a law that states that the federal government cannot spend more money in any given state than that state provides in federal revenues.

Come to think of it, that would be a fantastic bill for a "fiscal conservative" to introduce. Imagine the mental gymnastics from the Tea Party Caucus.
 
2012-07-05 02:41:53 PM  

highbrow45: Well duh, the people in those states are obviously wealthy enough to pay their medical expenses out of pocket.


True story. If you haven't had an appendectomy done with a Bowie knife in a deer stand... you've probably paid too much!
 
2012-07-05 02:42:22 PM  

LucklessWonder: 9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS


Forcing States to take part but denying them other funding is what was overturned. Something along those lines.
 
2012-07-05 02:42:59 PM  

mrshowrules: LucklessWonder: 9/10. Answered don't know on the expanding Medicaid part as I thought that was overturned by SCOTUS

Forcing States to take part by denying them other funding is what was overturned. Something along those lines.


FTFM
 
2012-07-05 02:43:34 PM  

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


10 out of 10! oh and I support PPACA and don't watch Fox for news purposes ever. Wouldn'tcha know it.
 
2012-07-05 02:45:25 PM  

coeyagi: GentDirkly: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Like the map?

Tip your waitress.

Wow, you really want us to pull up stats to prove that? Jesus, you are either a troll (most likely) or a glutton for punishment.


I interpreted it as a joke about how the states trying to battle Obamacare were at the actual bottom of the map. You know, the South.
 
2012-07-05 02:50:00 PM  

qorkfiend: coeyagi: GentDirkly: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Like the map?

Tip your waitress.

Wow, you really want us to pull up stats to prove that? Jesus, you are either a troll (most likely) or a glutton for punishment.

I interpreted it as a joke about how the states trying to battle Obamacare were at the actual bottom of the map. You know, the South.


I did too, but he was trolling around in another thread last week or earlier this week.
 
2012-07-05 02:54:20 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears:
Here. I've given you what you want. Happy?


I laughed, so, yeah, I guess so.
 
2012-07-05 02:55:04 PM  

doyner: The Name: Edsel: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Their worst nightmare is that the blue states actually start listening to them and finally cut them off the federal teat. The Republican party would collapse within a year.

This is going to sound very Confederacy-esque, but I've been wondering for a while if it would be possible for blue states to form some sort of association to protect their interests against the red states. Something that says, "Yes, we'll still send Reps and Senators to Congress and pay our federal taxes and all that jazz, but otherwise we're going to work together directly to see that Republican policies have as little impact as possible on our states."

They could do things like:

1) Offer state-funded tuition assistance to college students from other blue states, while taxing red-state students to help fund primary education.

2) Coordinate to vote for lower federal taxes while simultaneously raising state taxes (if necessary) to pay for things like state-wide universal healthcare.

. . . well, those are the only two ideas I have so far, and I'm not even sure if they are constitutional. All I know is that I'm sick of blue states having to go along with backwards Teabagger policies just because we're stuck in this unhappy marriage called the United States.

We could do that by simply passing a law that states that the federal government cannot spend more money in any given state than that state provides in federal revenues.

Come to think of it, that would be a fantastic bill for a "fiscal conservative" to introduce. Imagine the mental gymnastics from the Tea Party Caucus.


Not enough popcorn in this world...

It would redefine what epic is
 
2012-07-05 02:57:50 PM  

coeyagi: qorkfiend: coeyagi: GentDirkly: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Like the map?

Tip your waitress.

Wow, you really want us to pull up stats to prove that? Jesus, you are either a troll (most likely) or a glutton for punishment.

I interpreted it as a joke about how the states trying to battle Obamacare were at the actual bottom of the map. You know, the South.

I did too, but he was trolling around in another thread last week or earlier this week.


I don't troll dude. I just happen to have strident views that infuriate many on certain topics. This topic isn't one of them :).
 
2012-07-05 02:59:15 PM  
9/10 on the quiz...

...thought too in-depth for the first one, was wondering if they used fine as a synonym or antonym for tax/credit.

/at least that's my excuse
//and I'm sticking to it
///death panels be damned
 
2012-07-05 03:01:09 PM  

GentDirkly: coeyagi: qorkfiend: coeyagi: GentDirkly: Aarontology: Turns out that the states trying to battle Obamacare are at the bottom of the rankings for a lot of things.

Like the map?

Tip your waitress.

Wow, you really want us to pull up stats to prove that? Jesus, you are either a troll (most likely) or a glutton for punishment.

I interpreted it as a joke about how the states trying to battle Obamacare were at the actual bottom of the map. You know, the South.

I did too, but he was trolling around in another thread last week or earlier this week.

I don't troll dude. I just happen to have strident views that infuriate many on certain topics. This topic isn't one of them :).


Fair enough. My apologies.
 
2012-07-05 03:05:10 PM  

chimp_ninja: Results from an interesting poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation are here.

Lessons:
1) People who do poorly on a quiz about what is in PPACA really dislike PPACA.
2) People who rely on Fox News as their primary news source do really poorly (worse than random guessing) on a quiz about what is in PPACA.
3) 40% of respondents thought "death panels" were a real thing.

Take the 10-question quiz here.


I explained that poll to my mother-in-law last night. She insisted that the Kaiser Foundation was paid off in order to make Fox News look bad.

/I really didn't know what to say to that.
 
2012-07-05 03:07:06 PM  

SphericalTime: I just got a 10 out of 10. Not a single one of those questions was difficult to answer, or misleading in any way. If you've been paying any attention you should be getting almost all of them correct.


I thought that the first question was misleading using the word FINE instead of penalty or tax.
 
2012-07-05 03:09:27 PM  

Testiclaw: 9/10 on the quiz...

...thought too in-depth for the first one, was wondering if they used fine as a synonym or antonym for tax/credit.

/at least that's my excuse
//and I'm sticking to it
///death panels be damned


LOL
I had the same problem.
 
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