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(The New York Times)   Romney says that since healthcare mandate is a tax, Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on middle class. Which therefore means that Romney admits that he raised taxes while governor   (nytimes.com) divider line 815
    More: Dumbass, President Obama, health care mandate, Lake Winnipesaukee, Bill Burton, Fourth of July Parade, Anthony M. Kennedy, federalisms, governors  
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2484 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jul 2012 at 12:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-05 03:25:42 AM  

Surool: So, who's running that f*cking clown's campaign anyway. What a moron.


Matt Rhoades. 37. Graduated GWU 1999.

Was a "research analyst" for the GOP in Florida during the now infamous 2000 recount.

Served during the first Dumbya term as AD of Personnel.

In the 2004 campaign he headed up the opposition research team for Dumbya.

By 2008 he was Communications Director during Romney's ill fated attempt at the GOP nom.

Now he's running the show.

And yes, he's a farking moron.
 
2012-07-05 03:29:37 AM  

ghostwind: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x320][m.ruvr.ru image 460x268]

Separated at birth? Mmmmmmm.... waffles.


thread over.
 
2012-07-05 03:35:46 AM  

ghostwind: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x320][m.ruvr.ru image 460x268]

Separated at birth? Mmmmmmm.... waffles.


Kerry had twice the charisma and humility, and was far more consistent in his positions. Plus, he was a war hero instead of a pussy who used his money to hide in France.
 
2012-07-05 03:40:00 AM  

kg2095: Infernalist: His problem is that the Dems and Independents don't see TAXES as being an inherently evil thing. Not when you get such a great deal in return.

And most especially since the tax will only be levied upon those who 'can' get health insurance, but decide for some inexplicable reason to NOT get it.

Taxes aren't inherently evil. They are what is used to build the infrastructure of a society. So without taxes you don't really have a society anymore. No military, police, fire fighters, public hospitals and schools, roads, sidewalks, libraries, welfare, street lights, airports, trains, judicial system...


www.backfirealley.com

"Exactly! Now you're getting it! You know, I had that figured out when I was twelve years old !"
 
2012-07-05 03:42:28 AM  

quizzical: It isn't a tax on the middle class. It is a tax on anyone who can afford insurance and chooses not to carry any.


In that case, doesn't this mean that everyone who already has insurance just got another tax cut? So shouldn't Repubs be jumping behind this?

Oh wait, it benefits the middle class, forgot they only support things that screw the middle class.
 
2012-07-05 03:44:22 AM  
Romney's message seems to be "I have no message at all. But I'm not Obama."
 
2012-07-05 03:44:45 AM  

LordJiro: Kerry had twice the charisma and humility, and was far more consistent in his positions. Plus, he was a war hero instead of a pussy who used his money to hide in France.


I think his point was more that they both have the personality of wet cardboard.
 
2012-07-05 03:49:06 AM  
Mitt Romney is a puppet, it's sad that someone running for president cannot defend himself in a debate. He is just reading the daily GOP propaganda written by lobbyists controlled by big pharma, and insurance companies.
 
2012-07-05 03:52:44 AM  

Empty Matchbook: AverageAmericanGuy: It's a terrible law. Romney is an idiot, but so is the President for signing such a lousy compromise.

It's a good start. Once the Ignorant-Americans see that the country doesn't burn down and that Grandma gets healthcare, not a death panel, people will likely wise up and vote for something more progressive in...I'd say 5-10 years, barring another 9/11 style event that sets us back decades culturally/politically.

/then again, I'm no futurist


It's actually written into Obamacare that states will have the opportunity to do their own thing if they can cover more efficiently than the insurance exchanges. It won't be too long until someone looks at the numbers and sees that single payer is cheaper and more efficient than a bloated bureaucracy of different forms for every insurance company filled out in triplicate for every procedure, with different coverage amounts and copays.

Vermont is already working on it. And believe it or not, they even have medical marijuana. (No, it's not covered - yet).
 
2012-07-05 03:55:19 AM  

johne3819: randomjsa: but it's Constitutional

All that matters


That guy trolls so hard he has himself on ignore.
 
2012-07-05 03:56:57 AM  

Teufelaffe: Ringshadow: karmaceutical: Who in the "middle class" doesn't have health insurance, except for those who would gladly buy it but are priced out by pre-existing conditions? You know, those would could really use it.

Are there some mythical people out there with means who just flat out don't buy it? Is this a big voting block?

I'm a seasonal contractor and I've been rejected for health insurance. I don't want the one from my company when I work because that goes to Cobra after I get laid off. I want a simple, high deductible plan, in case I fall down a hill and break my leg or something. I'll take care of the day to day stuff on my own dime.

Nope. Rejected. No preexisting conditions. Healthy beyond the very occasional cold (and okay, yeah, I got food poisoning this year but that's the worst thing I've had in ages).

/need to call them and ask WTF MATE

Maybe they have an anti-furry clause.


www.thealmightyguru.com
 
2012-07-05 04:00:21 AM  

Notabunny: Coelacanth: Anybody bring up that Romney has a $100 million IRA yet?

Are you sure it's an IRA? I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some caps and limits, everything like such as.


Kind of. It's another one of those things where if you have a lot of money, the rules don't work the same way as for the regular people the program was intended to benefit. Link
 
2012-07-05 04:01:57 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: kg2095: Taxes aren't inherently evil. They are what is used to build the infrastructure of a society. So without taxes you don't really have a society anymore. No military, police, fire fighters, public hospitals and schools, roads, sidewalks, libraries, welfare, street lights, airports, trains, judicial system...

I find it amusing that most of the anti-tax people are Christians, and yet Jesus was pro-tax.


Better put "Christians" in italics.
 
2012-07-05 04:03:54 AM  
Hey Mitt, there are two peoples of this planet that believe taxes have no place in government... The Republicans and the Greeks.

This is like accusing MLK of caring too much about human equality.
 
2012-07-05 04:27:18 AM  

Notabunny: Coelacanth: Anybody bring up that Romney has a $100 million IRA yet?

Are you sure it's an IRA? I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some caps and limits, everything like such as.


There is a hard limit on how much you can put into an IRA (5000$/year now, 4000$/year until recently) but it can gain or lose value the same as any investment.

So if Romney's put 40 years of max contribution into the fund that's 160k$ seed, it's not inconceivable for the guy that runs a capital investment firm to be able to multiply that by a factor of 10 or three. I mean, not something that your random guy off the street will be able to do since they can't as easily swap out the portfolio, but I don't know if it's really zOMG outrage time that an investment banker's retirement fund might do extremely well.

Honestly, I find it more unusual that Romney has an IRA at all, as it's much easier to pull the same general trick with a personal investment portfolio so I'd suspect you'd gain more than you'd benefit from the IRA's exempt status.
 
2012-07-05 04:41:41 AM  
SKIN IN THE GAME MAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
 
2012-07-05 04:44:06 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: It's a terrible law. Romney is an idiot, but so is the President for signing such a lousy compromise.


So you are willing to vote for another idiot then? How responsible of you....
 
2012-07-05 04:45:49 AM  
"Well, the Supreme Court has the final word and their final word is that Obamacare is a tax," Romney said in a CBS television interview. "So it's a tax. They decided it was constitutional. So it is a tax and it's constitutional."

I know Romney often contradicts himself a lot and everything, but this is one of those instances where he actually said something right... a decidedly un-Republican thing for him to do.
 
2012-07-05 04:54:12 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: It's a terrible law. Romney is an idiot, but so is the President for signing such a lousy compromise.


Could you please read this and tell me what is terrible about it in your opinion?

Pharque-it: So you are willing to vote for another idiot then? How responsible of you....


I'm not certain he has been responsible enough to even understand what he seems to dislike so much. Perhaps not the first time he's had that issue?
 
2012-07-05 04:57:53 AM  

quizzical: It isn't a tax on the middle class. It is a tax on anyone who can afford insurance and chooses not to carry any.


In most situations ok yeah, what about this situation though, you live on unemployment at the moment, but it ran out, so you stay with your sister her husband and your mom. Both of the first collect a paycheck, mom gets Social Security.

Any aid you are eligible for is based on household income, if you have NONE in this spot you still don't qualify for a farking thing because the others drive you over the limit easily, nothing for you unless you beg for more than a room to crash in from them, gov will not give you shiat. Lots of people could get medicaid and shiat if they didnt live with family I bet

/I was in this spot for a bit, pretty sweet
//fixed now , but...
 
2012-07-05 05:04:18 AM  
Don't worry, he'll just lie and lie and lie some more, and the MSM will report his talking points as facts.
 
2012-07-05 05:05:31 AM  

martissimo: quizzical: It isn't a tax on the middle class. It is a tax on anyone who can afford insurance and chooses not to carry any.

In most situations ok yeah, what about this situation though, you live on unemployment at the moment, but it ran out, so you stay with your sister her husband and your mom. Both of the first collect a paycheck, mom gets Social Security.

Any aid you are eligible for is based on household income, if you have NONE in this spot you still don't qualify for a farking thing because the others drive you over the limit easily, nothing for you unless you beg for more than a room to crash in from them, gov will not give you shiat. Lots of people could get medicaid and shiat if they didnt live with family I bet

/I was in this spot for a bit, pretty sweet
//fixed now , but...


You should consider becoming a ho.
 
2012-07-05 05:14:24 AM  

Sum Dum Gai: And the dumbest part of all this - it's just an argument over semantics. Whether you need to pay a $700 penalty for not having insurance or a $700 tax for not having insurance or a $700 "compulsory donation" for not having insurance, the ultimate effect is one and the same. A rose by any other name and all that.


I call it an insurance premium and I don't care who I pay it to. I still have to pay it.
 
2012-07-05 05:14:38 AM  

quizzical: It isn't a tax on the middle class. It is a tax on anyone who can afford insurance and chooses not to carry any.


damn straight
 
2012-07-05 05:15:38 AM  

JohnnyC: AverageAmericanGuy: It's a terrible law. Romney is an idiot, but so is the President for signing such a lousy compromise.

Could you please read this and tell me what is terrible about it in your opinion?


It does nothing to contain medical care costs and artificially drives up demand for private insurance, thus guaranteeing that prices remain high and those who truly need coverage are still left holding the bag.

Maybe you'd like to tell me what you find so great about it.
 
2012-07-05 05:27:15 AM  
i.imgur.com

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I say it wasn't a tax?
What I meant to say was whatever I need to to get more votes.
 
2012-07-05 05:28:06 AM  

ImpendingCynic: Yes, because the Constitution is 100% clear on everything and we have no need for an overseeing judicial body to decide what's what. All SCOTUS has really done for 230 years is bicker over whether "We the People" or "We, the People" is grammatically correct. Everything else was rock solid.

Your pathetic attempts to paint Obama as a hopeless and incompetent failure at his job are really quite sad. Surely there's something else out there for you to fret about - maybe whether his shoes and belt match?


I'm not the one that's been arguing for the last year or longer that ObamaCare wasn't a tax and that it was covered by the Commerce Clause only to have it declared precisely the opposite by the courts.

And that's without even taking in to account the fact that Obama is suppose to be an expert on Constitutional law. Even when you put that aside he looks like a freaking MORON for running around claiming victory when the court said he was wrong on this underlying arguments.

That either makes him a liar or a fool even if he's not a so called expert on the Constitution. If we're going to still claim he's an expert then he's a damn liar or a double damn fool.

This is without even considering the giant middle finger the Democrats have stuck in the faces of the majority of Americans who don't even support ObamaCare. When 50.1% of the people turned against the Iraq war the liberals could not shut up about the will of the people and how they had to be listened to but now all of a sudden the will of the people be absolutely damned if it gets in the way of a liberal power grab.
 
2012-07-05 05:39:40 AM  

randomjsa: Even when you put that aside he looks like a freaking MORON for running around claiming victory when the court said he was wrong on this underlying arguments.


This. Upholding Obamacare is a win for the Republicans, but the Democrats just don't get it. Stupid libs.
 
2012-07-05 05:48:35 AM  
Can we have debates now?

/ I really wanna see someone debate the Superposition Candidate.
 
2012-07-05 05:49:41 AM  

randomjsa: ImpendingCynic: Yes, because the Constitution is 100% clear on everything and we have no need for an overseeing judicial body to decide what's what. All SCOTUS has really done for 230 years is bicker over whether "We the People" or "We, the People" is grammatically correct. Everything else was rock solid.

Your pathetic attempts to paint Obama as a hopeless and incompetent failure at his job are really quite sad. Surely there's something else out there for you to fret about - maybe whether his shoes and belt match?

I'm not the one that's been arguing for the last year or longer that ObamaCare wasn't a tax and that it was covered by the Commerce Clause only to have it declared precisely the opposite by the courts.

And that's without even taking in to account the fact that Obama is suppose to be an expert on Constitutional law. Even when you put that aside he looks like a freaking MORON for running around claiming victory when the court said he was wrong on this underlying arguments

That either makes him a liar or a fool even if he's not a so called expert on the Constitution. If we're going to still claim he's an expert then he's a damn liar or a double damn fool..


Of course, you know that Obama specifically said that HIS ORIGINAL PLAN wasn't a tax, not the butchered mess that came into being to appease the Republicans. The individual mandate itself was a Republican idea, added in to get their votes.

This is without even considering the giant middle finger the Democrats have stuck in the faces of the majority of Americans who don't even support ObamaCare. When 50.1% of the people turned against the Iraq war the liberals could not shut up about the will of the people and how they had to be listened to but now all of a sudden the will of the people be absolutely damned if it gets in the way of a liberal power grab.


The majority of polled Americans don't support "Obamacare", true...but they DO overwhelmingly support the component parts. What they don't like is the strawman created by the Republican party. But again, you knew that, and you're just a trolling dipshiat.
 
2012-07-05 05:56:58 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: thus guaranteeing that prices remain high and those who truly need coverage are still left holding the bag.


A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers. ( Citation: Page 41, sec. 1101 )

Seems there are protections in place to stop the insurance companies from gouging customers... No, this doesn't specifically address healthcare costs on the service side. Considering the opposition this faced from Republicans, we're lucky to have gotten even that much.

There are a lot of things I like about it. I only wish it would have been implemented sooner so that my Dad wouldn't have had to use his entire retirement fund to pay for his healthcare out of pocket when his health insurance company of 25 years dropped him the moment he was diagnosed with cancer. He's alive, but he has had to go back to work after 4 years of battling cancer.

He used to vote Republican, but then he realized that they were fighting tooth and nail to stop us from protecting people from being dropped by their insurance the moment they need it... now he knows better.

I also like that I will finally be able to get some health insurance (and that I am protected from their bad practices). I am a freelance artist and make a modest income at it. Too much to get medicaid or medicare and too little to be able to afford the incredible prices the health insurance companies ask for. This will go a long way toward fixing that problem.

So what is it really? Are you one of those, "I've got mine, so fark off", kind of people? You know... the ones who are arguing that if people like myself are able to get insurance than there won't be enough healthcare for you.
 
2012-07-05 05:59:09 AM  
Infernalist:
His problem is that the Dems and Independents don't see TAXES as being an inherently evil thing. Not when you get such a great deal in return.

And most especially since the tax will only be levied upon those who 'can' get health insurance, but decide for some inexplicable reason to NOT get it.


Some inexplicable reason = WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY! Whar is birth cierficyt whar! Admiralty flag tassels! Jews to Obama's ovens!
 
2012-07-05 06:07:36 AM  
I heard that if you can't pay the tax, your fate is decided by one of Obama's death panels if you ever need health care. Apparently, the IRS is supplying the WH with a list of all those who fail to bend the knee.
 
2012-07-05 06:18:50 AM  
As much flak as Romney gets for his waffling, it isn't enough. Does anyone not remember he ran for President last election as well? Look at those videos - he's a completely different person. Then, go back and watch videos of him campaigning for Governor, and see another entirely different person. His campaign slogan should be, "vote for me, because if I don't get elected you'll never find out what I was actually for all this time."
 
2012-07-05 06:36:19 AM  
Anyone who trusts the GOP to achieve better results reforming HC over the Dems hasn't been paying the slightest bit of attention to the issue at all.

That noted, the GOP inexplicably seem bound and determined to keep this issue front and center for the upcoming election.

That's right folks, you heard that right. The GOP in their infinite wisdom have decided that confronting Obama over 'Obamacare' is their best play in 2012 and further that Mitt 'Romneycare' Romney is just the guy to make that argument.

At some point Mittens is gonna have to leave the safe, secure zone of RW-friendly media and actually start answering a few real questions on this issue and to date his answer uniformly suck.

Should be lulzy.

*popcorn bowl at the ready*

/And yes I realize that at the moment over 50% oppose the reforms but those numbers contain both the righties who think it goes too far and lefties who think it doesn't go far enough.
//Post SCOTUS decision the for-against swung from 43-57 to 48-52 with an eleven point jump in approval among independents.
 
2012-07-05 06:37:24 AM  

Jim_Callahan: There is a hard limit on how much you can put into an IRA (5000$/year now, 4000$/year until recently)


There is a penalty for contributions above the limit. That penalty is a tax, so it's not clear when Romney stopped incurring it.
 
2012-07-05 06:39:03 AM  

JohnnyC: AverageAmericanGuy: thus guaranteeing that prices remain high and those who truly need coverage are still left holding the bag.

A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers. ( Citation: Page 41, sec. 1101 )

Seems there are protections in place to stop the insurance companies from gouging customers... No, this doesn't specifically address healthcare costs on the service side. Considering the opposition this faced from Republicans, we're lucky to have gotten even that much.

There are a lot of things I like about it. I only wish it would have been implemented sooner so that my Dad wouldn't have had to use his entire retirement fund to pay for his healthcare out of pocket when his health insurance company of 25 years dropped him the moment he was diagnosed with cancer. He's alive, but he has had to go back to work after 4 years of battling cancer.

He used to vote Republican, but then he realized that they were fighting tooth and nail to stop us from protecting people from being dropped by their insurance the moment they need it... now he knows better.

I also like that I will finally be able to get some health insurance (and that I am protected from their bad practices). I am a freelance artist and make a modest income at it. Too much to get medicaid or medicare and too little to be able to afford the incredible prices the health insurance companies ask for. This will go a long way toward fixing that problem.

So what is it really? Are you one of those, "I've got mine, so fark off", kind of people? You know... the ones who are arguing that if people like myself are able to get insurance than there won't be enough healthcare for you.


It's funny what you infer about me and my position on this based on my calling your guy an idiot.
 
2012-07-05 06:46:19 AM  
cdn.ricochet.com

"Thirdly, America, I will bake you a pie on day one."

img.allvoices.com

"I will exaggerate America's penis size..."

mybloggityblog.com

"...Fine. I will GREATLY exaggerate America's penis size."

blog.chron.com

"Ron Paul will run the Department of Snacks."

images1.dailykos.com

"Seriously, it's ridiculous. He's the size of a Keebler elf."

media.salon.com

"I promise, I will try to become the size of a Keebler elf on Day One."

media.salon.com

"Has anyone seen my knapsack?"

ecopoliticalecon.files.wordpress.com

"It's got my trail mix in it."
 
2012-07-05 06:55:19 AM  

ghostwind: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x320][m.ruvr.ru image 460x268]

Separated at birth? Mmmmmmm.... waffles.


I think this one sums it up nicely:

sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-07-05 06:55:35 AM  
shifting his campaign's characterization of the law and aligning himself with the conservative voices in his party.

This is my shocked face.
 
2012-07-05 07:09:05 AM  

GoodyearPimp: Jim_Callahan: There is a hard limit on how much you can put into an IRA (5000$/year now, 4000$/year until recently)

There is a penalty for contributions above the limit. That penalty is a tax, so it's not clear when Romney stopped incurring it.


You got a citation for that? I don't think that is true at all. It's a $5K max unless you are over 50, then you can toss in another $1K and that's it.
 
2012-07-05 07:17:12 AM  
If you can't afford health insurance, you might not be "middle class".

Once rates go down and you CAN afford it and choose NOT to, then yes its a tax on you, but its not a "tax on the middle class"
 
2012-07-05 07:22:45 AM  

vernonFL: If you can't afford health insurance, you might not be "middle class".

Once rates go down and you CAN afford it and choose NOT to, then yes its a tax on you, but its not a "tax on the middle class"


Heh... Like that's going to stop these cretins from repeating the talking point from now until November.
 
2012-07-05 07:30:51 AM  
It doesn't matter what Mittens says or does as a candidate - that is actually completely irrelevant. He's still guaranteed a good 40% of the vote.

Think about that for a minute.
 
2012-07-05 07:34:25 AM  
"It's only OK when I do it!"

-Romney campaign slogan.
 
2012-07-05 07:35:13 AM  
Last week the Romney campaing was saying that ACA wasn't a tax:

"The governor disagreed with the ruling of the court. He agreed with the dissent that was written by Justice Scalia that very clearly said that the mandate was not a tax," Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to Romney, said on MSNBC. "The governor believes what we put in place in Massachusetts was a penalty, and he disagrees with the court's ruling that the mandate was a tax."
 
2012-07-05 07:36:42 AM  

Zerochance: It doesn't matter what Mittens says or does as a candidate - that is actually completely irrelevant. He's still guaranteed a good 40% of the vote.

Think about that for a minute.


Well, it also doesn't matter what he says, because he's completely untrustworthy. No one can trust him.
 
2012-07-05 07:39:29 AM  

keylock71: ghostwind: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x320][m.ruvr.ru image 460x268]

Separated at birth? Mmmmmmm.... waffles.

I think this one sums it up nicely:

[sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x322]


WSJ editorial today rips him for his horribly-run campaign. In particular they singled out how he's playing right into the "rich out-of-touch white guy" stereotype.
 
2012-07-05 07:41:36 AM  

Edsel: keylock71: ghostwind: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x320][m.ruvr.ru image 460x268]

Separated at birth? Mmmmmmm.... waffles.

I think this one sums it up nicely:

[sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net image 640x322]

WSJ editorial today rips him for his horribly-run campaign. In particular they singled out how he's playing right into the "rich out-of-touch white guy" stereotype.


Link?
 
2012-07-05 07:42:19 AM  
Romney is using the strategy "If i occupy every position, my opponent cannot occupy any". If he is on both sides of every issue he can appeal to every voter.

The way he makes it truly work is to coupling it with the Rovian "Blizzard of Lies" strategy, to cover up which position he took originally, so he always appears to always have been for/against every motion. It's the perfect strategy!

Mitt has taken a quantum political stance, the Schrodinger position. One only a highly advanced political robot such as himself could maintain, as it would break our poor meaty bodies in trying to do so.

1.bp.blogspot.com

/searched Mitt Romney Space Knight, got this.
//pretty sure it's a picture of when Mitt met his wife
 
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