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(BBC)   What do you call a man with no legs who goes to the Olympics? An Olympian   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 212
    More: Spiffy, Oscar Pistorius, Paralympics, Court of Arbitration for Sport, IAAF, olympics, legs  
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6700 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2012 at 10:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-04 02:21:16 PM
This is what I would have done if ever I lost my legs.
 
2012-07-04 05:19:17 PM

Skywolf Philosopher: This is what I would have done if ever I lost my legs.


Hey, you still have a chance.

www.cafesouris.com
 
2012-07-04 08:47:04 PM
Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.
 
2012-07-04 08:47:47 PM
Cool headline Subs, nicely done.
 
2012-07-04 08:52:06 PM
Eileen?

/Think about it
 
2012-07-04 08:54:48 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Eileen?

/Think about it


That's low.
 
2012-07-04 09:37:01 PM
O-limp-ian?


/someone had to say it
 
2012-07-04 09:59:33 PM
Poor little Tink Tink
 
2012-07-04 10:17:17 PM
Mat?

Or is that the door guy? I can never remember.
 
2012-07-04 10:18:08 PM
bob
matt
art
cliff
ben
bill
irene
ilene
stan
phil
and igor
 
2012-07-04 10:18:41 PM

doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.


If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.
 
2012-07-04 10:19:31 PM
more like no feet from what I see.
 
2012-07-04 10:21:08 PM

Skywolf Philosopher: This is what I would have done if ever I lost my legs.


Everyone who's worked with him has said that he'd still be a runner if he'd been born with functioning legs.

/It's a shame they didn't let him compete four years ago, when he would have run the table in the track events.
 
2012-07-04 10:21:24 PM
Poignant subby. Very Poignant
 
2012-07-04 10:22:43 PM
sexy
 
2012-07-04 10:25:53 PM
 
2012-07-04 10:27:02 PM
The only objection I have to this man participating has nothing to do with the mechanical nature of his prosthetics. It is that he has no nerves with which to feel the pain other athletes feel, and suffer from, as a normal part of the competition. Overcoming physical discomfort, and even outright pain, is a huge part of athleticism...a part he is immune from experiencing while others are not. That is what gives him a significant physical advantage over the other competitors, and that IMO makes it less than fair.
 
2012-07-04 10:28:47 PM

Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


Unless he's just not really all that good to begin with and the magic legs bring him to a level where he can compete.

How is having lower legs, ankles and calves that never ever get tired not an advantage?
 
2012-07-04 10:29:07 PM

Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


They bent the rules for that one too. He's competing in both events.
 
2012-07-04 10:29:58 PM
Good thing my Bugatti is a prosthetic leg.
 
2012-07-04 10:30:01 PM
too bad norf amaerica televisions won't televise this event because he is not norf amaericana.
 
2012-07-04 10:30:03 PM

debug: How is having lower legs, ankles and calves that never ever get tired not an advantage?


i2.ytimg.com
 
2012-07-04 10:31:06 PM
my wife has a prosthetic hymen
 
2012-07-04 10:31:46 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Skywolf Philosopher: This is what I would have done if ever I lost my legs.

Everyone who's worked with him has said that he'd still be a runner if he'd been born with functioning legs.

/It's a shame they didn't let him compete four years ago, when he would have run the table in the track events.


So would Steven Hawking. Where do you draw the line? It sets a horrible precident.
 
2012-07-04 10:32:23 PM
www.wearysloth.com
 
2012-07-04 10:33:12 PM

Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


If he runs faster with the prosthetic than he would have with actual legs, which is likely the case, he has an advantage. By your argument an athlete who uses steroids but still doesn't qualify for the Olympics hasn't actually cheated.
 
2012-07-04 10:34:50 PM
They let little Tink Tink in? Good for him, man.
 
2012-07-04 10:36:45 PM

debug: Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.

Unless he's just not really all that good to begin with and the magic legs bring him to a level where he can compete.

How is having lower legs, ankles and calves that never ever get tired not an advantage?


What about his upper legs? Without having calve muscles to assist wouldn't they have to work twice as hard and thus take twice the strain as a runner with lower legs?
 
2012-07-04 10:37:10 PM
I should note that I have no issue if this guy runs a faster, slower, or equal time to other 'normal' runners. He has a distinct/unfair advantage. Heck, I think it would be cool if paralympic runners post faster times than olympic runners, but, they are different categories of atheletes.
 
2012-07-04 10:37:14 PM
It's not an advantage. While he doesn't have to worry about calf muscles cramping and so on, he DOES have to work harder to keep his balance. The traction is about equal to an athletic shoe. Now you act like not having these muscles is a hindrance but strong calves lead to explosive starts. I think it's awesome that he gets to compete.
 
2012-07-04 10:39:15 PM

expobill: my wife has a prosthetic hymen


I wondered why she never got tired...
 
2012-07-04 10:40:29 PM

Balchinian: The only objection I have to this man participating has nothing to do with the mechanical nature of his prosthetics. It is that he has no nerves with which to feel the pain other athletes feel, and suffer from, as a normal part of the competition. Overcoming physical discomfort, and even outright pain, is a huge part of athleticism...a part he is immune from experiencing while others are not. That is what gives him a significant physical advantage over the other competitors, and that IMO makes it less than fair.


But he's an amputee, not a paraplegic. Why wouldn't he feel pain? I imagine his knees (or wherever the amputation was made) take quite a beating from running with the prosthesis. And I'm sure he has other normal (if you will) physical issues (hips, hamstrings, etc) that all athletes deal with.

And, on a more general note, check out these time comparisons I don't think his prostheses make him Super Runner, just a competitive one.
 
2012-07-04 10:41:05 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-04 10:41:16 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Skywolf Philosopher: This is what I would have done if ever I lost my legs.

Everyone who's worked with him has said that he'd still be a runner if he'd been born with functioning legs.

/It's a shame they didn't let him compete four years ago, when he would have run the table in the track events.


Wikipedia is the source so standard disclaimer applies
 
2012-07-04 10:41:21 PM

gwydion56: expobill: my wife has a prosthetic hymen

I wondered why she never got tired...


she switched to those bloody radials
 
2012-07-04 10:41:46 PM
My cousin lost his legs below the knees due to sever burns from an auto accident two years ago. It's been a very painful rehab process due to scarring and Myositis Ossificans (Heterotopic Bone Formation) and a subsequent fracture along from his wheelchair.

His stumps can't support the weight n the end so the cuff has to and the pressure is very uncomfortable. He can walk a few hundred feet on his own artificial legs but then has to sit to let the pain subside. Watching the process since the accident s fascinating and heartbreaking.

I can't imagine him even coming close to running.

I too am shocked how this s considered fair competition. In another story of a wrestler missing a leg competing, I too joined the detractors saying he was missing grappling points for his opponents to use and his center of gravity is much different. He was also in the wrong weight class. He was fighting much smaller people with smaller upper bodies simply because without legs he could be put into a lower class.

I'm all for equal opportunity to compete but there needs to be a level playing field of ability, strength, physiology, and chemistry. E.g. If you want to take drugs to enhance performance then creat a new competition class, don't try to claim you're being fair competing against others who don't.
 
2012-07-04 10:42:10 PM

phimuskapsi: It's not an advantage. While he doesn't have to worry about calf muscles cramping and so on, he DOES have to work harder to keep his balance. The traction is about equal to an athletic shoe. Now you act like not having these muscles is a hindrance but strong calves lead to explosive starts. I think it's awesome that he gets to compete.


i miss Hiƒler too!
 
2012-07-04 10:43:53 PM

lohphat: My cousin lost his legs .

sorry to hear that, i hope your cousin gets better and enjoys life.
 
2012-07-04 10:44:02 PM
Running on springs is cheating

/try a jet pack next
 
2012-07-04 10:46:48 PM

PluckYew: Dwight_Yeast: Skywolf Philosopher: This is what I would have done if ever I lost my legs.

Everyone who's worked with him has said that he'd still be a runner if he'd been born with functioning legs.

/It's a shame they didn't let him compete four years ago, when he would have run the table in the track events.

Wikipedia is the source so standard disclaimer applies


Always preview dumbass

Link Scroll down, he missed the Olympic "B" qualifier by .7 seconds.

Also his prosthesis look like leaf springs to me, not saying he's cheating but it wouldn't be too difficult to change the components in his blade and unless the IOC is going to impound his legs after the race he will get away with it.

I feel bad because his condition is genetic but that's life we don't always roll a 7, he's doing the best he can with what he has and that is admirable. He should only be a paralympian
 
2012-07-04 10:47:46 PM

expobill: bob
matt
art
cliff
ben
bill
irene
ilene
stan
phil
and igor


Eileen's half sister Peg
 
2012-07-04 10:48:37 PM
Props to the guy for his obvious dedication and sheer tyranny of will to overcome and make the goddamn Olympic team, that is impressive. Pretty sure if I was a double amputee I'd have to dedicate myself to not putting a pistol in my mouth on a daily basis.

I do think he has an unfair advantage though. When other competitors can get an asterisk for wind-aided times, or disqualified for performance enhancing drugs, I'm pretty sure his opponents won't feel it's a fair fight especially if they are getting a view of his backside during the race.

Also, reminds me of this fantastic book, Machine Man, which I think now deserves a re-read. Highly recommended for anyone interested in self-tinkering.
 
2012-07-04 10:48:46 PM

SharkTrager: If he runs faster with the prosthetic than he would have with actual legs, which is likely the case, he has an advantage.


People have all sorts of advantages when it comes to the Olympics: they have good genes, they come from countries which have world-class training facilities, they come from families which were affluent enough to afford fencing or Judo or cross-country skiing lessons.

He might run slightly faster with the prosthetic legs to replace the legs he was born without than he would if he had been born with legs. He might run faster if he was born with slightly better genes. It's all pretty arbitrary. In the end, the prosthetic legs are a reasonable accommodation. It's not putting a jet engine on Steven Hawking's chair. Even with the legs, he's not able to beat the world's fastest runners.

If people with natural legs were no longer able to compete, or people were starting to amputate legs to compete better, it would be different. But that's not happen, nor likely to happen with the prosthetic legs that were approved for him to use. So, you know, let the dude run.
 
2012-07-04 10:50:21 PM
Thanks for giving us the answer subby. Otherwise I would have been stumped.
 
2012-07-04 10:51:26 PM

iron_city_ap: So would Steven Hawking. Where do you draw the line?


That doesn't make the slightest farking sense.

iron_city_ap: He has a distinct/unfair advantage.


You don't have even a rudimentary understanding of human anatomy, do you?

Because he has no muscles below his knees, he has to run propelling himself with his thighs and glutes alone. Whatever "advantage" he gets from not having lower legs or feet is lost because... he doesn't have lower legs or feet.
 
2012-07-04 10:53:31 PM

Dwight_Yeast: he doesn't have lower legs or feet.


So he would make a really great paralympian.
 
2012-07-04 10:56:19 PM

Dwight_Yeast:

Because he has no muscles below his knees, he has to run propelling himself with his thighs and glutes alone. Whatever "advantage" he gets from not having lower legs or feet is lost because... he doesn't have lower legs or feet.


In their place he has light-weight mechanical springs that don't fatigue.

Totally fair.
 
2012-07-04 10:56:51 PM

PluckYew: Also his prosthesis look like leaf springs to me, not saying he's cheating but it wouldn't be too difficult to change the components in his blade and unless the IOC is going to impound his legs after the race he will get away with it.


Read paragraph 2 of his Wiki page:

The same year, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) amended its competition rules to ban the use of "any technical device that incorporates springs, wheels or any other element that provides a user with an advantage over another athlete not using such a device". The federation claimed that the amendment was not specifically aimed at Pistorius. After monitoring his track performances and carrying out tests, scientists took the view that Pistorius enjoyed considerable advantages over athletes without prosthetic limbs. On the strength of these findings, on 14 January 2008 the IAAF ruled him ineligible for competitions conducted under its rules, including the 2008 Summer Olympics.


The IAAF didn't want him to compete and spent the entire run-up to the 2008 Olympics dicking him around.
 
2012-07-04 10:59:04 PM

ongbok: debug: Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.

Unless he's just not really all that good to begin with and the magic legs bring him to a level where he can compete.

How is having lower legs, ankles and calves that never ever get tired not an advantage?

What about his upper legs? Without having calve muscles to assist wouldn't they have to work twice as hard and thus take twice the strain as a runner with lower legs?


No. The blades serve all those functions, and do so better, and more efficiently, than calves. Further, they weigh less.

If the same benefits were available in shoes it is unlikely they would be allowed.
 
2012-07-04 10:59:52 PM
we don't negotiate with cyborgs!

encrypted-tbn0.google.com
 
2012-07-04 11:00:17 PM
I think the best message to take away from all of this is that we are all fortunate to be living in a time where we can build prosthetics that allow people like him to compete in athletics. It wasn't that long ago that a person in his condition would have needed crutches to move around.
 
2012-07-04 11:00:21 PM
In spite of the fact that he doesn't have to worry about fatigue in his calves, he is still more of a man than I will ever be.
 
2012-07-04 11:00:52 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: SharkTrager: If he runs faster with the prosthetic than he would have with actual legs, which is likely the case, he has an advantage.

People have all sorts of advantages when it comes to the Olympics: they have good genes, they come from countries which have world-class training facilities, they come from families which were affluent enough to afford fencing or Judo or cross-country skiing lessons.

He might run slightly faster with the prosthetic legs to replace the legs he was born without than he would if he had been born with legs. He might run faster if he was born with slightly better genes. It's all pretty arbitrary. In the end, the prosthetic legs are a reasonable accommodation. It's not putting a jet engine on Steven Hawking's chair. Even with the legs, he's not able to beat the world's fastest runners.

If people with natural legs were no longer able to compete, or people were starting to amputate legs to compete better, it would be different. But that's not happen, nor likely to happen with the prosthetic legs that were approved for him to use. So, you know, let the dude run.


Except every advantage you name is natural or comes from work. His advantage is unnatural. It's not arbitrary because the difference is clear.

And the reason he is not being allowed is because advances in technology will absolutely make it impossible for athletes with legs to compete.
 
2012-07-04 11:01:17 PM

lohphat: In their place he has light-weight mechanical springs that don't fatigue.


...and he doesn't have calf muscles. Or feet. Everyone who's looked at this scientifically has come to the same conclusion: any advantage he gets from the weight and (notional) fatigue issues is lost because he's forced to run in a way we're not designed to.

I'm a cyclist, and if I had to ride without calf muscles or feet (as people who compete in the Paralympics do), I would be at a great disadvantage, as you don't just crank with your upper legs, but with your calves as well. There's no way I'd be as fast as I currently am with legs without them.
 
2012-07-04 11:02:18 PM

SharkTrager: No. The blades serve all those functions, and do so better, and more efficiently, than calves. Further, they weigh less.


Incorrect, but keep repeating it and people might think it's true.
 
2012-07-04 11:03:52 PM
Inspiring.
 
2012-07-04 11:06:35 PM
He looks like the gatdamn Terminator!

encrypted-tbn3.google.com
 
2012-07-04 11:07:22 PM

Dwight_Yeast: PluckYew: Also his prosthesis look like leaf springs to me, not saying he's cheating but it wouldn't be too difficult to change the components in his blade and unless the IOC is going to impound his legs after the race he will get away with it.

Read paragraph 2 of his Wiki page:

The same year, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) amended its competition rules to ban the use of "any technical device that incorporates springs, wheels or any other element that provides a user with an advantage over another athlete not using such a device". The federation claimed that the amendment was not specifically aimed at Pistorius. After monitoring his track performances and carrying out tests, scientists took the view that Pistorius enjoyed considerable advantages over athletes without prosthetic limbs. On the strength of these findings, on 14 January 2008 the IAAF ruled him ineligible for competitions conducted under its rules, including the 2008 Summer Olympics.

The IAAF didn't want him to compete and spent the entire run-up to the 2008 Olympics dicking him around.


They acquiesced to public pressure and political correctness run amok.
let me see if can clarify:

HE STILL FAILED TO QUALIFY so your earlier statement about him:
/It's a shame they didn't let him compete four years ago, when he would have run the table in the track events. Is you talking out your ass.
 
2012-07-04 11:07:40 PM
Also, legs or no legs, he's hot as hell:

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-04 11:08:28 PM
With the present technology, it's a toss-up whether artificial limbs are an enhancement or not. But given the progress in these things, in 10 years the difference won't even be debatable.

Ten year old tech would have done 100m in 30 secs (as a guess). In 10 years, pretty clear that it will be superior to non-asssisted..

At some stage you either try to draw the line and say No Enhancements, or you allow cyborgs
 
2012-07-04 11:09:22 PM
Repeat plus this is cheating. The race is to see who has the fastest legs. He has no legs. How about I cut off my arm, strap a cannon to it and compete in the shot put competition?
 
2012-07-04 11:09:44 PM

PluckYew: They acquiesced to public pressure and political correctness run amok.


No, they had their ruling overturned by a higher authority. But thanks for playing the "political correctness" card; that's always a good one.
 
2012-07-04 11:11:04 PM

Dwight_Yeast: PluckYew: They acquiesced to public pressure and political correctness run amok.

No, they had their ruling overturned by a higher authority. But thanks for playing the "political correctness" card; that's always a good one.


You're still farking wrong,
You're still farking wrong,
You're still farking wrong,
 
2012-07-04 11:14:27 PM
1962 entry:www.rankopedia.com
 
2012-07-04 11:15:14 PM

PluckYew: You're still farking wrong,


And you're arguing out of bother sides of your mouth. If, as you claim, his prosthesis give him an "unfair advantage" why didn't he qualify? Why wasn't he faster than everyone else in the trials?

Riddle me that.
 
2012-07-04 11:16:22 PM

Dwight_Yeast: PluckYew: You're still farking wrong,

And you're arguing out of bother sides of your mouth. If, as you claim, his prosthesis give him an "unfair advantage" why didn't he qualify? Why wasn't he faster than everyone else in the trials?

Riddle me that.


He's not that great of a runner.
 
2012-07-04 11:16:58 PM
what do you call a man without a penis
a castradi (even if he can't sing)
 
2012-07-04 11:17:09 PM

Walker: Repeat plus this is cheating. The race is to see who has the fastest legs. He has no legs. How about I cut off my arm, strap a cannon to it and compete in the shot put competition?


I'm near-sighted. I need corrective lenses to be able to see. Does that mean I (and other near-sighted people) shouldn't be allowed to compete in athletic endeavors?
 
2012-07-04 11:18:23 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: what do you call a man without a penis
a castradi (even if he can't sing)


Incorrect. A castradi is someone who's had his testicles removed, traditionally before puberty.
 
2012-07-04 11:20:38 PM

Dwight_Yeast: PluckYew: You're still farking wrong,

And you're arguing out of bother sides of your mouth. If, as you claim, his prosthesis give him an "unfair advantage" why didn't he qualify? Why wasn't he faster than everyone else in the trials?

Riddle me that.


Because he's just really not all that good of a runner compared to world class athletes and the only things remotely keeping him in these races are his magic legs?
 
2012-07-04 11:21:54 PM
blog-imgs-44.fc2.com

I used to be a runner like you.

... but, I never did take any arrows my knees.
 
2012-07-04 11:23:52 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Walker: Repeat plus this is cheating. The race is to see who has the fastest legs. He has no legs. How about I cut off my arm, strap a cannon to it and compete in the shot put competition?

I'm near-sighted. I need corrective lenses to be able to see. Does that mean I (and other near-sighted people) shouldn't be allowed to compete in athletic endeavors?



If we have an eye chart reading contest, then no, you shouldn't be allowed to compete while wearing glasses or contacts
 
2012-07-04 11:24:47 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Jon iz teh kewl: what do you call a man without a penis
a castradi (even if he can't sing)

Incorrect. A castradi is someone who's had his testicles removed, traditionally before puberty.


And to finish the thought, the catch-all is eunuch, not castradi.
 
2012-07-04 11:25:42 PM
so one else is posting gump pictures?
la meme is lost!
 
2012-07-04 11:26:02 PM

Dwight_Yeast: PluckYew: You're still farking wrong,

And you're arguing out of bother sides of your mouth. If, as you claim, his prosthesis give him an "unfair advantage" why didn't he qualify? Why wasn't he faster than everyone else in the trials?

Riddle me that.


I all fully functioning human adult that would never qualify for the Olympics. Let's say I run 100m in 30 seconds, then I lose both my legs, my new 100m dash time is 20 second. My new legs give me a 10 second "advantage" but still doesn't compensate enough for my level of athleticism to make me a world class athlete. Or it could go the other way and I may run it in 40 seconds, that's the problem. Right now it's just kind of impossible to determine what types of advantages/disadvantages these springs give him.

However, they aren't human legs, which I could see why sports committees may be uncomfortable with the thought of him running. The way tech goes it may not be long until such legs start giving clear advantage. Continuing with my hyperbole, say he was able to run 100m in five seconds, would that change the way you looked at the situation?
 
2012-07-04 11:26:11 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Walker: Repeat plus this is cheating. The race is to see who has the fastest legs. He has no legs. How about I cut off my arm, strap a cannon to it and compete in the shot put competition?

I'm near-sighted. I need corrective lenses to be able to see. Does that mean I (and other near-sighted people) shouldn't be allowed to compete in athletic endeavors?


I don't believe in ignore lists but I now have you marked in my best Troll color, so I won't make the mistake of responding to your posts in the future.
 
2012-07-04 11:26:38 PM

debug: If we have an eye chart reading contest, then no, you shouldn't be allowed to compete while wearing glasses or contacts


Because of my persciption, there have been times in my life when I had better than 20/20 vision. Wouldn't that put me at unfair advantage, especially in something like the Biathlon?
 
2012-07-04 11:28:19 PM

ladyhawk: Balchinian: The only objection I have to this man participating has nothing to do with the mechanical nature of his prosthetics. It is that he has no nerves with which to feel the pain other athletes feel, and suffer from, as a normal part of the competition. Overcoming physical discomfort, and even outright pain, is a huge part of athleticism...a part he is immune from experiencing while others are not. That is what gives him a significant physical advantage over the other competitors, and that IMO makes it less than fair.

But he's an amputee, not a paraplegic. Why wouldn't he feel pain? I imagine his knees (or wherever the amputation was made) take quite a beating from running with the prosthesis. And I'm sure he has other normal (if you will) physical issues (hips, hamstrings, etc) that all athletes deal with.

And, on a more general note, check out these time comparisons I don't think his prostheses make him Super Runner, just a competitive one.


I didn't mean to infer that he had no nerves whatsoever, only that he was lacking the ones which are found in the body parts he is missing. Everyone has knees, everyone feels knee pain. No advantage or disadvantage for anyone. I am not talking about knees. Or thighs. Or hips. I am talking specifically about lower legs, ankles, and feet. He has none. Therefore he can not feel the lower leg, ankle, and foot pain/fatigue that all other athletes he competes against do feel, nor does he then have to overcome that pain. Therefore, he has a significant physical advantage over them.
 
2012-07-04 11:29:10 PM

Dwight_Yeast: SharkTrager: No. The blades serve all those functions, and do so better, and more efficiently, than calves. Further, they weigh less.

Incorrect, but keep repeating it and people might think it's true.


Yeah, they do. Studies show that they require 25% less energy than having legs.

The studies they are using to show no advantage are seriously flawed when one considers they are basically saying that the 6 sprinters tested didn't have a faster turnover than regular runners. As they are not likely to be in the same class as world class sprinters the fact they have the same rate of turnover would tend to indicate the prosthetic does help with turn.

Basically all they have "proven" is that blades do not create energy.
 
2012-07-04 11:31:09 PM
To be fair, South Africa fielded a one legged Norwegian on their international Cricket team once upon a time.

Yes, under apartheid you had a better chance of making the Cricket team as a one legged Norwegian than as an able bodied black.
 
2012-07-04 11:32:47 PM

PluckYew: I don't believe in ignore lists but I now have you marked in my best Troll color, so I won't make the mistake of responding to your posts in the future.


Funny, I did the same thing to you a couple minutes ago.

Korzine: Continuing with my hyperbole, say he was able to run 100m in five seconds, would that change the way you looked at the situation?


Indeed, because that would indicate the prosthetics give him an enormous advantage. But we come back around to basic human anatomy, and the fact that he's at a huge disadvantage to begin with and the prosthetics are binging him up to the point that he's on par with people competing at the Olympic level.

To look at it from another angle, look at his Paralymics times: he's a hell of a lot faster than anyone else missing their legs below the knees even though they using the same technology in prosthetics he is.
 
2012-07-04 11:33:04 PM
Uh, guys, I thought Adam Jensen already showed us the dangers of augmented athletes.

Link
 
2012-07-04 11:33:58 PM
This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue over who amputeed who!"
 
2012-07-04 11:34:06 PM
Pistorius will also compete at the Paralympic Games in London in the 100m, 200m, 400m and 4x100m relay.

The double dipping strikes me as poor taste.
 
2012-07-04 11:34:16 PM

Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


Today's biwing is tomorrow's F-22. Just because this guy doesn't yet have a telling edge doesn't mean material science and engineering just stop.

It's like wheel chair bound atheletes. An old school wheelchair would have been suicide in most sports. Now they have special sports models that are rugged and useful.
 
2012-07-04 11:35:31 PM

SharkTrager: Yeah, they do. Studies show that they require 25% less energy than having legs.


which proves your point, if you ignore the fact that he's running using only his thigh and gluteus maximus muscles, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE CALVES.
 
2012-07-04 11:39:33 PM

Dwight_Yeast: debug: If we have an eye chart reading contest, then no, you shouldn't be allowed to compete while wearing glasses or contacts

Because of my persciption, there have been times in my life when I had better than 20/20 vision. Wouldn't that put me at unfair advantage, especially in something like the Biathlon?


If it corrects you past 20/20 then yes it's unfair. But all of this is dumb. If the world really collectively cared about superior, unassisted performance, then everyone should be expected to compete completely naked, with no glasses, hearing aids, or cyborg spring legs.

If this guy wins, which it sounds like he won't based on his records, then everyone will mentally assign him an asterisk. No rational person will think he is the "best" runner. And if he loses, then no one will care anyway. Even if this particular guy with these particular prostheses doesn't win, we definitely have the technology to replace human parts with superior devices. A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in? OMG SLIPPERY SLOPE! Yes, slippery slope because the exact same rationale applies. He doesn't have fake legs. He has springs. He doesn't have knees, or toes, or calves, he has springs. How is that logically any different than Mr. Cannonarm, 2016?
 
2012-07-04 11:42:00 PM

The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?


uh, (for the fourth time) because his prosthetics don't give him any advantage?
 
2012-07-04 11:42:30 PM

Balchinian: I didn't mean to infer that he had no nerves whatsoever, only that he was lacking the ones which are found in the body parts he is missing. Everyone has knees, everyone feels knee pain. No advantage or disadvantage for anyone. I am not talking about knees. Or thighs. Or hips. I am talking specifically about lower legs, ankles, and feet. He has none. Therefore he can not feel the lower leg, ankle, and foot pain/fatigue that all other athletes he competes against do feel, nor does he then have to overcome that pain. Therefore, he has a significant physical advantage over them.


That's assuming that being able to actually feel the surface and your motion through said nerves useful in running. Sort of like saying a boxer who can't feel his arms has an advantage. Sure, it doesn't hurt when he punches, but he'd have a delayed sense of when he blocked as well. That's why this decision is probably best left up to the governing bodies familiar with the events rather than random people online.

Also, just curious, since he obviously has such a huuuuuge advantage, you'd all put money on him winning, right?
 
2012-07-04 11:43:30 PM

Dwight_Yeast: The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?

uh, (for the fourth time) because his prosthetics don't give him any advantage?


So he would be able to compete without them, you're saying.
 
2012-07-04 11:43:57 PM

The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?


Don't be ridiculous; Predator drones can't even ski.
 
2012-07-04 11:44:19 PM

ProfessorOhki: since he obviously has such a huuuuuge advantage, you'd all put money on him winning, right?


No. His times aren't that great.
 
2012-07-04 11:47:36 PM

Dwight_Yeast: And you're arguing out of bother sides of your mouth. If, as you claim, his prosthesis give him an "unfair advantage" why didn't he qualify? Why wasn't he faster than everyone else in the trials?

Riddle me that.


Seriously? So if a baseball player gets busted for steroids, but only bats .220, he isn't cheating?

It is an unfair advantage, and sets a bad precedence. In 10 years, the technology will be even more of an advantage.
 
2012-07-04 11:48:21 PM

ProfessorOhki: The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?

Don't be ridiculous; Predator drones can't even ski.


But they can hang-glide!

What if you used the drones to take out your opponents; woulddn't that give you an unfair advantage?

/this thread has become stupid.
//going to bed
 
2012-07-04 11:52:20 PM
You armchair fat farks who want to cry about an unfair advantage should do some farking research before you spew your ignorance:

"We did energetic tests to see how much oxygen Oscar was consuming. We looked at his rate of fatigue; we looked at biomechanics - how much force he applies, his step length and his stride frequency," Herr, who is also a double below-the-knee amputee, told Life's Little Mysteries. In all categories, Pistorius' performance followed the same trends as other top athletes. [How Do Athletes Get 'In the Zone' of Peak Performance?]

"People argued that Oscar had an unnatural rate of fatigue," Herr said. They claimed that his artificial limbs gave him extra stamina. But it isn't true. "To measure the rate of fatigue, you take a treadmill and turn it on at a particular speed. He jumps on and starts running, and you time how long he can maintain that speed. You do this at several speeds, then plot normalized speed versus duration, and you get a curve. Many sprinting athletes follow a similar curve. We found that Oscar follows the same trend." In short, he got just as tired using his blades as everyone else did using their calves and ankles.

Furthermore, Herr explained, if Pistorius' prosthetics work better than biological limbs, they'd be giving a boost to other amputees, too. "The technology is not new: For the last 15 years, Paralympic athletes have used the same technology. No one has achieved these fast running times that Oscar has achieved," Herr said. "It's clearly because of Oscar, not the legs."


For those with critical thinking skills

Your opinion. It's bullshiat.

Go Oscar!
 
2012-07-04 11:52:22 PM
Personally I'd like to see the "Super Olympics"

Prothesis, steroids, anything as long as it was only human powered.

Then the traditional Olympics only naked/ no drugs.

Then we can nix the Winter Olympics and just have a world hockey
 
2012-07-04 11:55:00 PM
One panino, two panini.
One paparazzo, two paparazzi.
One castrato, two castrati.

/Italian Nazi
//Much like Benito
 
2012-07-04 11:56:43 PM
I loved him as the bassist for Weather Report.
 
2012-07-04 11:58:56 PM

ProfessorOhki:
That's assuming that being able to actually feel the surface and your motion through said nerves useful in running. Sort of like saying a boxer who can't feel his arms has an advantage. Sure, it doesn't hurt when he punches, but he'd have a delayed sense of when he blocked as well. That's why this decision is probably best left up to the governing bodies familiar with the events rather than random people online.

Also, just curious, since he obviously has such a huuuuuge advantage, you'd all put money on him winning, right?


S'cuse me, are you saying that the Olympic governing body is familiar with the actual events they govern? Or that they are familiar with what it is like to try the events sans limbs? Maybe you ought to double check to see what the backgrounds of those people are before you go defending them so. Last time I checked, the individuals involved in making the decision to allow or disallow Pistorius were taking heat precisely because of their lack of familiarity with the nuances of the event(s) involved. Most of them are fat old suits. And to be clear, I did not say the advantage was huuuuuge, I said it was significant. The criteria the Olympic body was supposed to be using is worded that way, so that is the wording I chose to use. For the record, while I think he is a strong runner, I would not put money on him because there are better runners out there. That has no bearing on the validity of my argument, however.
 
2012-07-04 11:59:50 PM
www.cantstopthemovies.com

/hot
 
2012-07-05 12:04:01 AM

gwydion56: expobill: my wife has a prosthetic hymen

I wondered why she never got tired...


Ha, as if you ever reached it.
 
2012-07-05 12:04:24 AM

Dwight_Yeast: The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?

uh, (for the fourth time) because his prosthetics don't give him any advantage?


They did a study. They do give him an advantage, at least as far as running in a straight line goes. That was the rationale for not allowing him in previous Olympics. The appeal was based on the fact that they only tested running in a straight line, not along a curve as part of the 400m is run, and they didn't test coming out of the starting blocks. You could also suggest that he might experience the same advantage on the turns or at the start, but since no one tested those elements the appeal was granted.
 
2012-07-05 12:07:44 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Does that mean I (and other near-sighted people) shouldn't be allowed to compete in athletic endeavors?


just that winter skiing/shooting one. and archery.
 
2012-07-05 12:08:13 AM

MadAzza: gwydion56: expobill: my wife has a prosthetic hymen

I wondered why she never got tired...

Ha, as if you ever reached it.


[ohsnap.jpg]
 
2012-07-05 12:10:10 AM
My question is whether these prosthetics generate any energy, or whether Pistorus is moving under his own power. If the latter, I don't see it as much of an advantage because, as noted above, he has to propel himself using his thighs and glutes alone. However, if the prosthetics have some sort of battery power that supplements the athlete's normal energy, then it is a tremendous advantage, and should be banned from the olympics.
 
2012-07-05 12:10:16 AM
He has an advantage by sheer physiology (or just engineering if you like).

It is a lot easier for the heart to pump blood to his thighs and back than it is for the other runners who have to pump blood all the way down to their feet and back up (1m or so of difference).
 
2012-07-05 12:11:47 AM
The Olympics (when it comes to track and field) are supposed to kind of be like stock car racing in that all equipment to all is the same and the difference is the human controlling said equipment. This would be shoes, outfits, etc. Can a person with two legs use these blades as their shoes? Then it's BS.

For anyone stating that because he isn't fastest it shows it is not an advantage, that is stupid logic. That's like stating that everyone besides me has to run barefoot, but I can use shoes because it gives me no advantage because I don't beat them.

It wouldn't be "fair" to him if he was excluded, but the flip side is it isn't fair to the other competitors (and whomever he took a slot from) that he gets to use something outside of his natural abilities. Something about the needs of the many...

He's an incredible athlete, but there is no way to state that he would be world class if he had been born with legs. How many people run on these blades? How many run on their legs? The chance (statistically) that he would be one of the elite athletes based purely on ability is statistically insignificant.

The best proof (not that it would be definitive) would not be his race times against others, but would be to compare his race times by mark against others. He is slow out of the blocks (for obvious reasons) and makes up time as the race goes on. I haven't been able to find a ton of this information, but compare the last 100 or 50 of his 400 against his competitors. Also do the same for every 50 or 100 split and look for trends. I would bet that his later times are closer to world class and the first 50 is what prevents him from being number 1 or 2.
 
2012-07-05 12:14:00 AM

SharkTrager: No. The blades serve all those functions, and do so better, and more efficiently, than calves. Further, they weigh less.


Reposting for the emphasis on weight. How much will his average competitor's feet, ankles and calves weigh in comparison to these prostheses, where a couple of ounces' difference in the weight of a pair of shoes impacts finishing time in a sport measured in thousandths of seconds?
 
2012-07-05 12:18:10 AM
To anyone who thinks he has an advantage: I'd like to see your face when he asks you if you'd like to trade legs with him.
 
2012-07-05 12:19:10 AM

LMark: My question is whether these prosthetics generate any energy, or whether Pistorus is moving under his own power. If the latter, I don't see it as much of an advantage because, as noted above, he has to propel himself using his thighs and glutes alone. However, if the prosthetics have some sort of battery power that supplements the athlete's normal energy, then it is a tremendous advantage, and should be banned from the olympics.


Never played with a pogo stick, have you?
 
2012-07-05 12:22:12 AM
What did they use as a control in the test since he was born without legs?

Does he have to have a tech inspection like in NASCAR?
 
2012-07-05 12:23:46 AM
www.speakinggump.com
 
2012-07-05 12:24:49 AM

ZoSo_the_Crowe: To anyone who thinks he has an advantage: I'd like to see your face when he asks you if you'd like to trade legs with him.


I never aspired to be an olympic runner. My legs wouldn't only kill his dreams, but would probably drive him insane for wont of speed.

But I'd like remind you they make these same kind of prothesis as boots for people with feet. You can light jog at 22 mph and jump 5 ft vertically with ease. I've see people using them in the park. Flo Jo was faster, Jordan leapt higher, but both only just.
 
2012-07-05 12:25:12 AM

Balchinian: MadAzza: gwydion56: expobill: my wife has a prosthetic hymen

I wondered why she never got tired...

Ha, as if you ever reached it.

[ohsnap.jpg]


Yeah, I rather enjoyed that!
 
2012-07-05 12:26:39 AM

Dwight_Yeast: lohphat: In their place he has light-weight mechanical springs that don't fatigue.

...and he doesn't have calf muscles. Or feet. Everyone who's looked at this scientifically has come to the same conclusion: any advantage he gets from the weight and (notional) fatigue issues is lost because he's forced to run in a way we're not designed to.

I'm a cyclist, and if I had to ride without calf muscles or feet (as people who compete in the Paralympics do), I would be at a great disadvantage, as you don't just crank with your upper legs, but with your calves as well. There's no way I'd be as fast as I currently am with legs without them.


He also doesn't have the weight of calf muscles, bones, and feet at the end of a long lever arm (his leg). That's a large mechanical advantage.
 
2012-07-05 12:27:41 AM

ZoSo_the_Crowe: To anyone who thinks he has an advantage: I'd like to see your face when he asks you if you'd like to trade legs with him.


The question he'd be asking would have nothing to do with the question at hand. I wouldn't want to trade places with Edward Scissorhands either, but he would have an advantage in a shrubbery cutting competition.

encrypted-tbn1.google.com
 
2012-07-05 12:29:24 AM
If it's about what is fair, shouldn't he be required to carry ballast (or some other kind of weight) to make up for the fact that he is probably 20% lighter than he would be with legs?
 
2012-07-05 12:29:29 AM

RogermcAllen: He has an advantage by sheer physiology (or just engineering if you like).

It is a lot easier for the heart to pump blood to his thighs and back than it is for the other runners who have to pump blood all the way down to their feet and back up (1m or so of difference).


You're kidding, yes?
 
2012-07-05 12:36:42 AM
Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.
 
2012-07-05 12:37:17 AM

retarded: RogermcAllen: He has an advantage by sheer physiology (or just engineering if you like).

It is a lot easier for the heart to pump blood to his thighs and back than it is for the other runners who have to pump blood all the way down to their feet and back up (1m or so of difference).

You're kidding, yes?


Which part of my statement is untrue or comical, be specific?
 
2012-07-05 12:39:54 AM
Link

Flex-Sprint
As the name implies, this foot is designed for short, powerful bursts of speed.
Recommended for transfemoral amputees, this custom foot, is a stand-out in the athletic arena for its unparalleled energy return.

Flex-Foot Cheetah
The design captures the running characteristics of the Cheetah, the world's fastest land animal. It replicates the big cat's hind leg, whose foot extends and reaches out to paw at the ground while the large thigh muscles pull the body forward


Looks to me like its only a matter of time before tech/engineering gives them an obvious advantage......

Can he swap out the Cheetah for the Sailfish and compete in aquatic events?
 
2012-07-05 12:41:21 AM

D-Wolf2k2: Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.


This would be true for someone who was born with legs and lost them. For someone who never had them they don't have any muscle memory or anything else that needs to be "retrained". If you're talking about just in general that the human body isn't designed to work that way a lifetime of using something a given way makes it natural to the individual. I've seen people missing hands that are much more adept with hand tools than I am.
 
HBK
2012-07-05 12:45:23 AM

Giltric: Link

Flex-Sprint
As the name implies, this foot is designed for short, powerful bursts of speed.
Recommended for transfemoral amputees, this custom foot, is a stand-out in the athletic arena for its unparalleled energy return.

Flex-Foot Cheetah
The design captures the running characteristics of the Cheetah, the world's fastest land animal. It replicates the big cat's hind leg, whose foot extends and reaches out to paw at the ground while the large thigh muscles pull the body forward


Looks to me like its only a matter of time before tech/engineering gives them an obvious advantage......

Can he swap out the Cheetah for the Sailfish and compete in aquatic events?


I was born without feet so I should be allowed to use these giant flippers I've attached to my nubs which also weigh less and have less drag than feet.
 
2012-07-05 12:49:31 AM

D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.


There was a scientific study conducted that proved that they give absolutely zero benefit over normal legs. That study was linked earlier up in the thread. That people are still arguing about whether or not it gives an advantage is farking moronic. People need to go read what the experts said.

In case you're wondering, it said there wasn't any benefit whatsoever or actual legs. Fatigue, stamina, power, the legs provided the same functionality as actual legs.
 
2012-07-05 01:02:32 AM

CreamFilling: Dwight_Yeast: The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?

uh, (for the fourth time) because his prosthetics don't give him any advantage?

They did a study. They do give him an advantage, at least as far as running in a straight line goes. That was the rationale for not allowing him in previous Olympics. The appeal was based on the fact that they only tested running in a straight line, not along a curve as part of the 400m is run, and they didn't test coming out of the starting blocks. You could also suggest that he might experience the same advantage on the turns or at the start, but since no one tested those elements the appeal was granted.


Mr. Carpenter: D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.

There was a scientific study conducted that proved that they give absolutely zero benefit over normal legs. That study was linked earlier up in the thread. That people are still arguing about whether or not it gives an advantage is farking moronic. People need to go read what the experts said.

In case you're wondering, it said there wasn't any benefit whatsoever or actual legs. Fatigue, stamina, power, the legs provided the same functionality as actual legs.

 
2012-07-05 01:05:30 AM

MisterLoki: CreamFilling: Dwight_Yeast: The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?

uh, (for the fourth time) because his prosthetics don't give him any advantage?

They did a study. They do give him an advantage, at least as far as running in a straight line goes. That was the rationale for not allowing him in previous Olympics. The appeal was based on the fact that they only tested running in a straight line, not along a curve as part of the 400m is run, and they didn't test coming out of the starting blocks. You could also suggest that he might experience the same advantage on the turns or at the start, but since no one tested those elements the appeal was granted.

Mr. Carpenter: D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.

There was a scientific study conducted that proved that they give absolutely zero benefit over normal legs. That study was linked earlier up in the thread. That people are still arguing about whether or not it gives an advantage is farking moronic. People need to go read what the experts said.

In case you're wondering, it said there wasn't any benefit whatsoever or actual legs. Fatigue, stamina, power, the legs provided the same functionality as actual legs.


Oh I see you can invent things too, go read the farking study you illiterate coont, they do not give an advantage, go farking read it. Go, please, or don't comment again.
 
2012-07-05 01:07:12 AM
can he run clean though greenboro county?
 
2012-07-05 01:07:43 AM
Obviously, the prosthetic legs are conferring no special advantage, or he would have made the time to qualify for the individual event. And whoever argued "Well, his legs don't feel pain," or whatever is missing one important point: They also don't feel the GROUND. If he makes a misstep he's not going to be able to correct in time, like a person who has feet can, because there isn't any immediate feedback from his foot to his spinal cord.

Try running when both your feet are asleep, if you think that somehow doesn't matter.
 
2012-07-05 01:17:32 AM

Gyrfalcon: Obviously, the prosthetic legs are conferring no special advantage, or he would have made the time to qualify for the individual event. And whoever argued "Well, his legs don't feel pain," or whatever is missing one important point: They also don't feel the GROUND. If he makes a misstep he's not going to be able to correct in time, like a person who has feet can, because there isn't any immediate feedback from his foot to his spinal cord.

Try running when both your feet are asleep, if you think that somehow doesn't matter.


That's a different sensation completely. It's painful, not simply an absence of sensation.
 
2012-07-05 01:18:41 AM
i132.photobucket.com
Approves.
 
2012-07-05 01:42:45 AM
I don;t think he has an advantage for one reason. A big part of these sprints is pushing off with each step. He can't do that, lacking ankles and calves. He must rely solely on his leg speed and can't really explode forward with each step.. Even if his legs are springy they can only rebound with as much force as he puts into them, they can't surge him forward with each step like an ankle can with a mini jump.
 
2012-07-05 01:44:13 AM

D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.


Are you still in high school? Less traction from a smaller area!? Go read a physics book.


The potential sports problems:

1. Energy return: Theoretically superior to muscles.

2. Length: He can make these a bit longer than his natural lega would have been.

3. Injury: He can never break an ankle.

Why it doesn't matter: He can't even qualify for what he set out to do and even
a +5 doesn't mean your total score's better.

What's the issue? The future. His legs are amazing. Compare them to Long John Silver style pegs and it's out of this world how much the tech's improved. The tech won't stop improving. One day, the prosthesis market will crop up with something much better than flesh and blood.

This is the real issue. Any fool can hop in a car and pull off a four minute mile. It's easy peasy. But it was only recently recorded from sprinters because of rules about what qualifies and what doesn't. This time, it's not a problem, but if we start combining the special olympics and the regular ones, it's going to be a bloodbath (well, protestbath anyway) when the tech does improve.
 
2012-07-05 02:01:32 AM

Balchinian: The only objection I have to this man participating has nothing to do with the mechanical nature of his prosthetics. It is that he has no nerves with which to feel the pain other athletes feel, and suffer from, as a normal part of the competition. Overcoming physical discomfort, and even outright pain, is a huge part of athleticism...a part he is immune from experiencing while others are not. That is what gives him a significant physical advantage over the other competitors, and that IMO makes it less than fair.


Talk to anyone who's ever worn prosthetic legs, and ask them how pain-free it is.
 
2012-07-05 02:06:52 AM

HeartBurnKid: Balchinian: The only objection I have to this man participating has nothing to do with the mechanical nature of his prosthetics. It is that he has no nerves with which to feel the pain other athletes feel, and suffer from, as a normal part of the competition. Overcoming physical discomfort, and even outright pain, is a huge part of athleticism...a part he is immune from experiencing while others are not. That is what gives him a significant physical advantage over the other competitors, and that IMO makes it less than fair.

Talk to anyone who's ever worn prosthetic legs, and ask them how pain-free it is.


It depends on the cause of the need for prosthetics -- there's usually a big difference if it's due to injury, surgery, or congenital.
 
2012-07-05 02:07:13 AM

doglover: D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.

Are you still in high school? Less traction from a smaller area!? Go read a physics book.


Ok, I likely phrased that wrong. I'm a Biochem major not a physics major. But my point on that one was that since his blade doesn't have the same amount of surface area as a normal foot, he doesn't have the same area to push off against to generate force.
 
2012-07-05 02:10:17 AM

Mr. Carpenter: MisterLoki: CreamFilling: Dwight_Yeast: The Only Jeff: A cannon for shotput. A metal fist for boxing. A predator drone for biathlon. And how can you justify prohibiting those once this guy is allowed in?

uh, (for the fourth time) because his prosthetics don't give him any advantage?

They did a study. They do give him an advantage, at least as far as running in a straight line goes. That was the rationale for not allowing him in previous Olympics. The appeal was based on the fact that they only tested running in a straight line, not along a curve as part of the 400m is run, and they didn't test coming out of the starting blocks. You could also suggest that he might experience the same advantage on the turns or at the start, but since no one tested those elements the appeal was granted.

Mr. Carpenter: D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.

There was a scientific study conducted that proved that they give absolutely zero benefit over normal legs. That study was linked earlier up in the thread. That people are still arguing about whether or not it gives an advantage is farking moronic. People need to go read what the experts said.

In case you're wondering, it said there wasn't any benefit whatsoever or actual legs. Fatigue, stamina, power, the legs provided the same functionality as actual legs.

Oh I see you can invent things too, go read the farking study you illiterate coont, they do not give an advantage, go farking read it. Go, please, or don't comment again.


If you're talking about the study they reported on Yahoo all it says is that his oxygen curve is the same as a regular athlete. Which is only one potential issue. The legs could be bringing him UP to that level. Perhaps he's only a B+ athlete but with the legs he's an A like everyone else. That's not fair to all the A- athletes out there who don't get to compete.
 
2012-07-05 02:11:43 AM

doglover: 1. Energy return: Theoretically superior to muscles.


Except it's not. Also, he himself admits that his legs make him really susceptible to issues in cross winds and to wet track conditions.
 
2012-07-05 02:11:59 AM
BTW, I love that we're now arguing about whether prosthetics can make a person a superior athlete. Truly, we are living in the future.

/can I get a pair of "Kid Stealth" legs?
 
2012-07-05 02:13:11 AM

Gyrfalcon: Obviously, the prosthetic legs are conferring no special advantage, or he would have made the time to qualify for the individual event. And whoever argued "Well, his legs don't feel pain," or whatever is missing one important point: They also don't feel the GROUND. If he makes a misstep he's not going to be able to correct in time, like a person who has feet can, because there isn't any immediate feedback from his foot to his spinal cord.

Try running when both your feet are asleep, if you think that somehow doesn't matter.


His legs may confer a special advantage, but not enough to bring him to a qualifying time. If I lost my legs and got these ones I wouldn't be an Olympian, but that's the limits of my flabby pasty body, not limits of the technology.
 
2012-07-05 02:14:21 AM

The Only Jeff: . Perhaps he's only a B+ athlete but with the legs he's an A like everyone else


Given his times, he's not.
 
2012-07-05 02:22:16 AM

D-Wolf2k2: doglover: D-Wolf2k2: Ok. Let's walk through the list on his prostesis' advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage: Not as many muscles that fatigue
Disadvantage: Being forced to move in a way the body is not designed for.
Advantage: Prostesis likely lighter then flesh.
Disadvantage: Smaller contact area with ground meaning less traction, thus less able to build up speed.

I think it all about evens out.

Are you still in high school? Less traction from a smaller area!? Go read a physics book.

Ok, I likely phrased that wrong. I'm a Biochem major not a physics major. But my point on that one was that since his blade doesn't have the same amount of surface area as a normal foot, he doesn't have the same area to push off against to generate force.


Gya! Just gya!

The average force is independant of surface area! That's why an ice pick is so good at going into things point first. All that force at one tiny point. Try using it backwards and good luck.

As long as our man here isn't running on mud, the size of his contact are means very little for acceleration. If anything, he'll have better traction because his surface area is lower.
 
2012-07-05 02:48:32 AM

Sargun: If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


What do you believe the odds are that this man would be in this position had he been fully healthy?

There will be better athletes and better technology. This is a horrible precedent.
 
2012-07-05 02:55:34 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Because of my persciption, there have been times in my life when I had better than 20/20 vision. Wouldn't that put me at unfair advantage, especially in something like the Biathlon?


Corrective lenses have been allowed in sporting events for a long time. Precedent and all that.

Prosthetic legs are not the same animal. Corrective lenses are comparable to shoes, not feet.
 
2012-07-05 02:58:19 AM

Dwight_Yeast: Indeed, because that would indicate the prosthetics give him an enormous advantage. But we come back around to basic human anatomy, and the fact that he's at a huge disadvantage to begin with and the prosthetics are binging him up to the point that he's on par with people competing at the Olympic level.


Okay, then you're arguing for events such as the shot put, we should adjust the weight/mass of the ball so as to create a handicap for those who are weaker than the bests competitors?

That's much closer to what's happening here than a person wearing contact lenses.
 
2012-07-05 03:01:02 AM
For the record, I have no problem with Robles wrestling without a leg. I'm slightly more annoyed with the idea of weightlifting records being broken by those missing various limbs, but that's NOTHING compared to a guy who is running on springs.

Hey, let's just allow guys to run on stilts (or Go Go Gadget Springs) in the 2016 Olympics. After all, Usain Bolt is taller than most sprinters, so they deserve a break.
 
2012-07-05 03:07:22 AM

puffy999: What do you believe the odds are that this man would be in this position had he been fully healthy?


If he had his real legs he'd have no problem making the A standard qualifying time for the Olympics.
 
2012-07-05 03:09:39 AM
BTW there are many other sprinters who run with prosthetic legs, the same legs as Pistorius uses. And they're nowhere near the times for runners with two real legs. Hell runners with one prosthetic leg are nowhere near those times.
 
HBK
2012-07-05 03:26:41 AM

WhyteRaven74: BTW there are many other sprinters who run with prosthetic legs, the same legs as Pistorius uses. And they're nowhere near the times for runners with two real legs. Hell runners with one prosthetic leg are nowhere near those times.


It would be an interesting study to see the percentage of prothesis wearing sprinters compared to the number of amputees or prothesis wearers, then compare that to the percentage of sprinters against the number of normal, non prothesis persons. I'd wager that the percentage of prothesis folks outweighs the normals because being able to run is empowering to these otherwise slighted folks. There are other factors to consider as well: legs lost later in life (like in war those folks obviously weren't olympics bound to begin with), shiatty genetics (similarly, probably not top athletes),. It would also be interesting to look at the lifetime hours of training of prothesis wearers against natural professional and amateur athletes, and compare their times. With these data points, it may be easier to determine whether there's an advantage and how considerable it is.
 
2012-07-05 04:11:57 AM

WhyteRaven74: BTW there are many other sprinters who run with prosthetic legs, the same legs as Pistorius uses. And they're nowhere near the times for runners with two real legs. Hell runners with one prosthetic leg are nowhere near those times.


It's not a now problem, it's a then problem.

Prosthetics aren't quite as good as real legs yet. But you know what? They had a shiat fit in Bejing over the times set by people in the Speedo body suits. We've always had swimwear of some sort, but these were considered near cheating.

Prosthetic legs designed for running? A little bit more of a one up than a swim suit if they work well.
 
2012-07-05 05:20:21 AM

doglover: Prosthetic legs designed for running? A little bit more of a one up than a swim suit if they work well.


If you can find a way to alter basic biomechanics the legs might end up there, but as it is, you're relying on something storing effort whereas human muscle produces effort.
 
2012-07-05 06:45:45 AM
I will also run in the olympics! I am a little bit disabled by laziness, a car is what I use to get around. I'll be "running" at 100 mph as long as my car has gas. I'll definitely win the gold medal!
 
2012-07-05 07:07:44 AM

GreenSun: I will also run in the olympics! I am a little bit disabled by laziness, a car is what I use to get around. I'll be "running" at 100 mph as long as my car has gas. I'll definitely win the gold medal!


if your gas has ethanol in it it's a banned performance enhancer
 
2012-07-05 07:17:50 AM
Wow, if anything, this thread got stupider after I left last night.

Have fun y'all.

Feral Duhbya: One panino, two panini.
One paparazzo, two paparazzi.
One castrato, two castrati.

/Italian Nazi
//Much like Benito


Except that Benito was un fascisto, not a Nazi.
 
2012-07-05 07:23:20 AM
Bacause they don't produce the same lactic acid in response to the physical exertion, prosthetic springs don't experience local fatigue the same as human feet and calf muscles. Also, they don't add their lactic acid to the body's total, resulting in less "total fatigue" to the body as a whole. Not to mention, they reduce his "un-sprung weight". Meaningless to most people, this means that he has to produce less effort to pump those legs up and down. They are thusly a three-fold advantage.
 
2012-07-05 07:38:47 AM
1. chop off limbs
2. train like the dickens??
3. win!!!
 
2012-07-05 07:54:00 AM

Sargun: If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


Umm not really.. maybe if he had full legs he'd be a really slow runner, but with these he's barely an olympic runner. That'd be an advantage.
 
2012-07-05 08:10:38 AM

WhyteRaven74: BTW there are many other sprinters who run with prosthetic legs, the same legs as Pistorius uses. And they're nowhere near the times for runners with two real legs. Hell runners with one prosthetic leg are nowhere near those times.


You're going off the flawed assumption that all other things are equal before the legs. They're not. He's a superior athlete to others using these legs.

One question settles this argument for me: Can any other athlete use the equivalent devices to race? The answer to that is no. Only legless athletes would be able to use them. There is no runner that is allowed a certain shoe that others can't use (to my knowledge). Look at his time variance by distance (1-50 50, 51-100, 101-150, etc) and compare those to others.
 
2012-07-05 08:42:29 AM

Your Average Witty Fark User: You armchair fat farks who want to cry about an unfair advantage should do some farking research before you spew your ignorance:

"We did energetic tests to see how much oxygen Oscar was consuming. We looked at his rate of fatigue; we looked at biomechanics - how much force he applies, his step length and his stride frequency," Herr, who is also a double below-the-knee amputee, told Life's Little Mysteries. In all categories, Pistorius' performance followed the same trends as other top athletes. [How Do Athletes Get 'In the Zone' of Peak Performance?]

"People argued that Oscar had an unnatural rate of fatigue," Herr said. They claimed that his artificial limbs gave him extra stamina. But it isn't true. "To measure the rate of fatigue, you take a treadmill and turn it on at a particular speed. He jumps on and starts running, and you time how long he can maintain that speed. You do this at several speeds, then plot normalized speed versus duration, and you get a curve. Many sprinting athletes follow a similar curve. We found that Oscar follows the same trend." In short, he got just as tired using his blades as everyone else did using their calves and ankles.

Furthermore, Herr explained, if Pistorius' prosthetics work better than biological limbs, they'd be giving a boost to other amputees, too. "The technology is not new: For the last 15 years, Paralympic athletes have used the same technology. No one has achieved these fast running times that Oscar has achieved," Herr said. "It's clearly because of Oscar, not the legs."

For those with critical thinking skills

Your opinion. It's bullshiat.

Go Oscar!


Again, their studies are flawed because they do not have a baseline for him without the prosthetic.
 
2012-07-05 08:43:14 AM

WhyteRaven74: puffy999: What do you believe the odds are that this man would be in this position had he been fully healthy?

If he had his real legs he'd have no problem making the A standard qualifying time for the Olympics.


You have nothing whatsoever to base that on.
 
2012-07-05 08:43:30 AM

doglover: Prosthetics aren't quite as good as real legs yet. But you know what? They had a shiat fit in Bejing over the times set by people in the Speedo body suits. We've always had swimwear of some sort, but these were considered near cheating.


Are prosthetics not as speedy or has there not yet been someone as speedy wearing prosthetics? I think he gets some advantage from the blades in terms of maintaining a high speed. Every 400m specialist I can think of has a 400m time that's double their 200m + 3-5 seconds. The blade runner's is double his 200m + 2.2 seconds.
 
2012-07-05 09:14:53 AM

Mr. Carpenter: Oh I see you can invent things too, go read the farking study you illiterate coont, they do not give an advantage, go farking read it. Go, please, or don't comment again.


That wasn't a study linked, that was a fluff piece with an interview that summarized the study, with an n of 1, paid for by Pistorius and the company who makes the legs, conducted by a paid advisor. The results of that study were actually inconclusive. There have been other studies that clearly show a mechanical advantage gained by using the blades. In fact, the company itself claimed that their blades offer advantages, but apparently not with this one individual.

Link
Link
Link
 
2012-07-05 09:26:21 AM
We did a case study on this guy in my bioethics class. Those blades have a disadvantage when it comes to explosive starts because they are simple passive springs and he just can't possibly get them to do what calves do. But once he's running he has an advantage with them never tiring and being in general a much more efficient means of force transfer. The traction difference is essentially irrelevant as everyone is running on an idealized surface so they were designed to have equal traction to a normal shoe.

The guy is a tremendous athlete, no question. But it's a game which has to have strict rules to be fair. He is in a situation that gives him an advantage in certain ways and therefore cannot fit properly within those rules. Paralympics, absolutely. Able-bodied Olympics, no.
 
2012-07-05 09:35:38 AM

Nickninja: We did a case study on this guy in my bioethics class. Those blades have a disadvantage when it comes to explosive starts because they are simple passive springs and he just can't possibly get them to do what calves do. But once he's running he has an advantage with them never tiring and being in general a much more efficient means of force transfer. The traction difference is essentially irrelevant as everyone is running on an idealized surface so they were designed to have equal traction to a normal shoe.

The guy is a tremendous athlete, no question. But it's a game which has to have strict rules to be fair. He is in a situation that gives him an advantage in certain ways and therefore cannot fit properly within those rules. Paralympics, absolutely. Able-bodied Olympics, no.


But the Olympics stopped being concerned about athletics and fairness long ago, it's now primarily concerned about marketing and profit for the top executives. The decision makes perfect sense within this new context.
 
2012-07-05 09:37:42 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: they can't surge him forward with each step like an ankle can with a mini jump.


No, they just propel him equally, with no fatigue, more efficiently than human calves and ankles do by 25%.

Anyone using the ankle and calf argument to support him is way off. Going on about optimal efficiency in a normal body compared this guy doesn't work at all. We've developed a mechanical device that allows him to use his thighs and gluts absolutely optimally for a specific task. Human bodies are amazing because of how versatile they are. The Olympics are a competition that were meant to show the pinnacle of human ability and endeavor as a pseudo-substitute for war. If you want to include the work of scientists playing along at home, that's fine. However, this an absolute slippery slope argument.

I hate making those, but anyone supporting this is overlooking some serious and obvious outcomes, based on thousands of years of human nature:

1) Not every countries athletes are going to get the CHOICE, if they want their families and selves to be subsidized. Smart money is on China to suddenly have a round of "accidents" in their Olympic training program.

2) How, precisely, are you defining the difference between "restoring" his normal ability and giving an advantage. Let's grant that THESE devices on THIS athlete may not have taken him from bust to star. Are you really presuming that there will NEVER be a device that's more efficient? Are you presuming that on a different athlete, even THESE may not push him above what'd normally be humanly possible? Do injured swimmers get fins? Can we develop a mini bicycle that this guy locks his stubs straight into, a fraction of the size and weight, and significantly more aerodynamic? What if an athlete injures himself during training? Why can't we "restore" them with medical technology? After all, the OFFICIAL medical use of steroids and hormones is to replace normal function of glands to heal from injury.

3) Who, precisely, gets to define the "ideal" that makes everyone "average", for restoring an athlete anyway? Can ANY athlete less than that ideal be given whatever they need to be brought up? After all, what's the difference between a genetic defect giving a malformed leg, and say, your body under producing testosterone? Can you just tweak any kid off the street that didn't win the genetic lottery with whatever drugs and equipment they need to compete? Maybe if I had slightly different hormones, and maybe like, some flippers, I too could smoke a lot of weed, win gold medals, and sell Subway. Why won't you let me "fix" my "genetic weaknesses" that limit my abilities so unfairly?



This isn't even allowing airbrushing in a swimsuit competition. This is allowing an ugly girl into Miss America by holding up a picture of a different model, and telling everyone they have to judge the picture of the other model.
 
2012-07-05 09:37:44 AM
if i ever lose my legs i'm gonna create robotic legs that can go 100 mph and leave FLAMES behind

watermarked.cutcaster.com
 
2012-07-05 09:52:05 AM

lohphat: Nickninja: We did a case study on this guy in my bioethics class. Those blades have a disadvantage when it comes to explosive starts because they are simple passive springs and he just can't possibly get them to do what calves do. But once he's running he has an advantage with them never tiring and being in general a much more efficient means of force transfer. The traction difference is essentially irrelevant as everyone is running on an idealized surface so they were designed to have equal traction to a normal shoe.

The guy is a tremendous athlete, no question. But it's a game which has to have strict rules to be fair. He is in a situation that gives him an advantage in certain ways and therefore cannot fit properly within those rules. Paralympics, absolutely. Able-bodied Olympics, no.

But the Olympics stopped being concerned about athletics and fairness long ago, it's now primarily concerned about marketing and profit for the top executives. The decision makes perfect sense within this new context.


There aren't many things left that concern fairness over profit, that's practically a given nowadays. So marketing $$$ with the veneer of inclusion is absolutely why they did it.
 
2012-07-05 09:55:37 AM
I bet if I got my feet amputated, and got some flipper-prosthetics, I could excel in swimming events. This is no different.
 
2012-07-05 10:07:37 AM
Fair/unfair isn't even really the issue to me (and the science is very much out on that, the experts keep digging deeper and it is very interesting).

The issue to me is "is this running?" And I don't think it is. I respect what the man has done, but it is some derivative of running and has no place in the Olympics.
 
2012-07-05 10:11:04 AM

SharkTrager: their studies are flawed because they do not have a baseline for him without the prosthetic.


I wonder if they've timed him with less spring-y blade-y prosthetics, something more like "natural" legs and feet. Or is that not possible?
 
2012-07-05 10:11:28 AM

Sargun: doglover: Seems like a bad precedent. Prosthetics aren't muscles. They can't get tired. They can be lengthened. They can be optimized.

Props on the guy for shootin' for the moon, but they pinched a loaf over those body suits a few years ago. Mechanical legs seem much more advantageous.

If this guy had an advantage he wouldn't have missed his shot at the real event he was participating in and only gotten in on a technicality by participating on a relay team.


He could have an advantage that took him from "clearly not good enough to make the relay team" to "good enough to barely make the relay team".
 
2012-07-05 10:12:36 AM

WhyteRaven74: puffy999: What do you believe the odds are that this man would be in this position had he been fully healthy?

If he had his real legs he'd have no problem making the A standard qualifying time for the Olympics.


He could have wrecked an ankle or knee with real legs and be unable to compete.

He doesn't have that issue with these artificial components - he can actually get a replacement if one gets damaged during training (and probably has spares). A regular athlete can't go replace his knee or ankle.

This is definitely unfair. I won't say it's an advantage, but it's unfair.
 
2012-07-05 10:12:38 AM
They let him in......great now all the other athletes will have to cut off their legs to keep up.
 
2012-07-05 10:27:17 AM

debug: Dwight_Yeast: PluckYew: You're still farking wrong,

And you're arguing out of bother sides of your mouth. If, as you claim, his prosthesis give him an "unfair advantage" why didn't he qualify? Why wasn't he faster than everyone else in the trials?

Riddle me that.

Because he's just really not all that good of a runner compared to world class athletes and the only things remotely keeping him in these races are his magic legs?


DING!
 
2012-07-05 10:54:20 AM
I think it's impossible to really prove whether his legs give him an advantage. And therefore they shouldn't be allowed.

But really it will be genetic engineering that puts an end to sports, not this stuff.
 
2012-07-05 11:01:42 AM
Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich [TotalFark] Smartest Funniest
2012-07-04 10:48:46 PM

SharkTrager: If he runs faster with the prosthetic than he would have with actual legs, which is likely the case, he has an advantage.

People have all sorts of advantages when it comes to the Olympics: they have good genes, they ...


Which is why olympic freestyle swimmers are allowed to wear www.scuba-info.com
 
2012-07-05 11:10:28 AM

Wonderduck: [i132.photobucket.com image 640x480]
Approves.


*whew* I was afraid there wouldn't be any Katawa Shoujo refs.
 
2012-07-05 11:13:03 AM
If there is one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that I can highlight Dwight_Yeast with the color I have reserved for farking morons.
 
2012-07-05 11:16:51 AM

gopher321: O-limp-ian?


/someone had to say it


I thought subby said it, although a bit more subtly.
/that's the joke?
 
2012-07-05 11:19:02 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Poor little Tink Tink


Came here for this. Leaving satisfied.
 
2012-07-05 11:24:24 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com

'I'm INVINCIBLE!!!'

'You're a loony.'
 
2012-07-05 11:58:53 AM
180 posts and not one single picture of Lee Majors???

Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2012-07-05 01:00:00 PM
Nice to see the Olympics have caved into the PC movement. How long until all the future runners just happen to all be double amputees with fake legs. What a load of crap.
 
2012-07-05 01:52:31 PM

SharkTrager: Your Average Witty Fark User: You armchair fat farks who want to cry about an unfair advantage should do some farking research before you spew your ignorance:

"We did energetic tests to see how much oxygen Oscar was consuming. We looked at his rate of fatigue; we looked at biomechanics - how much force he applies, his step length and his stride frequency," Herr, who is also a double below-the-knee amputee, told Life's Little Mysteries. In all categories, Pistorius' performance followed the same trends as other top athletes. [How Do Athletes Get 'In the Zone' of Peak Performance?]

"People argued that Oscar had an unnatural rate of fatigue," Herr said. They claimed that his artificial limbs gave him extra stamina. But it isn't true. "To measure the rate of fatigue, you take a treadmill and turn it on at a particular speed. He jumps on and starts running, and you time how long he can maintain that speed. You do this at several speeds, then plot normalized speed versus duration, and you get a curve. Many sprinting athletes follow a similar curve. We found that Oscar follows the same trend." In short, he got just as tired using his blades as everyone else did using their calves and ankles.

Furthermore, Herr explained, if Pistorius' prosthetics work better than biological limbs, they'd be giving a boost to other amputees, too. "The technology is not new: For the last 15 years, Paralympic athletes have used the same technology. No one has achieved these fast running times that Oscar has achieved," Herr said. "It's clearly because of Oscar, not the legs."

For those with critical thinking skills

Your opinion. It's bullshiat.

Go Oscar!

Again, their studies are flawed because they do not have a baseline for him without the prosthetic.


You can stay on your soapbox as long as you want, you're still going to be wrong.
 
2012-07-05 02:12:22 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: You can stay on your soapbox as long as you want, you're still going to be wrong.


Don't you think your source is somewhat biased?
 
2012-07-05 02:22:56 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User:
You can stay on your soapbox as long as you want, you're still going to be wrong.


That doesn't make you right.
 
2012-07-05 03:12:44 PM
While there's a great "feel-good" story here, letting someone compete in the Olympics using mechanical legs does seem to violate the spirit of fair competition (much like the use of performance-enhancing drugs).
 
2012-07-05 03:14:36 PM
I remain convinced that the only way we figure out whether there is an unfair advantage or not in using these prosthetic legs is to amputate a perfectly healthy sprinter, and see if they can work their way up to pre-amputation speeds.
 
2012-07-05 03:17:45 PM

Matt Foley: I remain convinced that the only way we figure out whether there is an unfair advantage or not in using these prosthetic legs is to amputate a perfectly healthy sprinter, and see if they can work their way up to pre-amputation speeds.


Or just say "fark it all" and let people use whatever they want -- all the steroids & mechanical parts you can handle. Would be entertaining in its own way...
 
2012-07-05 04:55:09 PM
smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net

/approves
//wants to give him the Voight-Kampff test regardless, just in case
 
2012-07-05 05:00:59 PM
He competes in the Paralympics too?

Shouldn't he choose either Olympics or Paralympics?
 
2012-07-05 05:10:07 PM
This guy doesn;t have to deal with the most common running injuries...shinsplints, sprained ankles, achilles tendonitis, ruptured achilles..... does he even have knees or patellas?

He'll never have a Derek Redmond moment.....the crippled clearly has an advantage.
 
2012-07-05 05:16:23 PM
You can't argue that mechanical legs offer an exact and even replacement for real legs. There will be some sort of disadvantage/advantage. If you start to come up with reasoning for balancing genetic defects with artificial enhancement you start to delve into a subjective argument over just how appropriate the replacement is. You could never know for sure if that particular athlete's performance was exactly as it would have been had they not suffered from the genetic defect.

You might be able to create a very compelling case, but the subjectivity cannot be avoided and the spirit of the competition (in my opinion) is lost. It is cold, but I can't see how this logic fails short of me missing the point of these events.
 
2012-07-05 05:22:24 PM

Elemental79: You can't argue that mechanical legs offer an exact and even replacement for real legs. There will be some sort of disadvantage/advantage. If you start to come up with reasoning for balancing genetic defects with artificial enhancement you start to delve into a subjective argument over just how appropriate the replacement is. You could never know for sure if that particular athlete's performance was exactly as it would have been had they not suffered from the genetic defect.

You might be able to create a very compelling case, but the subjectivity cannot be avoided and the spirit of the competition (in my opinion) is lost. It is cold, but I can't see how this logic fails short of me missing the point of these events.


Especially since the legs are of a design that mimics the way a Cheetah runs, and not how a human runs......
 
2012-07-05 05:26:09 PM
If he ain't got feet he can't compete!
 
2012-07-05 06:53:46 PM

mjbok: Your Average Witty Fark User: You can stay on your soapbox as long as you want, you're still going to be wrong.

Don't you think your source is somewhat biased?


Oh, totally. I think the tests were rigged. I think the results were rigged.

I actually think you're a farking moron.
 
2012-07-05 07:49:28 PM

dbrunker: Wonderduck: [i132.photobucket.com image 640x480]
Approves.

*whew* I was afraid there wouldn't be any Katawa Shoujo refs.


Heck, I was surprised it took that long!
i132.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-05 08:05:26 PM

Dwight_Yeast: But we come back around to basic human anatomy, and the fact that he's at a huge disadvantage to begin with and the prosthetics are binging him up to the point that he's on par with people competing at the Olympic level.


Right now, things are a wash. Studies seem to indicate that his fake legs are somewhat better than his real legs would have been, trading early acceleration for substantially more efficient top-end speed. It's just enough to qualify him. It doesn't really break anything, since he's not likely to win or break a record, which is probably why they've let him in.

But if this were a blanket rule change rather than a one-time exception, I guarantee that 2016 would be the Cyborg Olympics, and there would be both voluntary and "voluntary" amputations to increase performance.

I'm glad he's in, but I'm also glad they seem to be treating it as a one-time thing. And more importantly, I think the crucial distinction is that he did not seek this out. He's a special case. But if the ruling stands for all athletes, people will.
 
2012-07-05 08:49:22 PM
Good for him, but I think he has a leg up on the competition.
 
2012-07-05 09:08:18 PM

expobill: bob
matt
art
cliff
ben
bill
irene
ilene
stan
phil
and igor


Claud
Rustle
John
 
2012-07-05 09:19:11 PM

WhyKnot: expobill: bob
matt
art
cliff
ben
bill
irene
ilene
stan
phil
and igor

Claud
Rustle
John


Stu
Jim
Skip
 
2012-07-05 09:22:50 PM
A Spectator
 
2012-07-05 09:29:34 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: Oh, totally. I think the tests were rigged. I think the results were rigged.

I actually think you're a farking moron.


The manufacturer of the blades has no vested interest in them getting used in olympic competition? The fact that you think I'm a moron pleases me, because you obviously are one if you can't see that there would be a bias there.
 
2012-07-05 09:34:43 PM

mjbok: The manufacturer of the blades has no vested interest in them getting used in olympic competition? The fact that you think I'm a moron pleases me, because you obviously are one if you can't see that there would be a bias there.


I retract that because he is the inventor prosthetic limbs, not these prosthetic limbs. The article wasn't clear on if he was an inventor or the inventor, and the former is true. However, as a fellow amputee I would still pose that his opinion might be biased.
 
2012-07-05 10:27:34 PM
So he'll try out to qualify for the olympics then few weeks later go for paralympics?

I thought it was one or the other...
 
2012-07-06 08:58:03 AM

raygundan: But if this were a blanket rule change rather than a one-time exception, I guarantee that 2016 would be the Cyborg Olympics, and there would be both voluntary and "voluntary" amputations to increase performance.

I'm glad he's in, but I'm also glad they seem to be treating it as a one-time thing. And more importantly, I think the crucial distinction is that he did not seek this out. He's a special case. But if the ruling stands for all athletes, people will.


Good. I hope they do.

If the Olympics are about the best of humanity competing, it seems clear that very quickly (unimproved) biological humans are not going to fulfill that role. I'd rather see augmented athletes compete than athletes crippled by their biology.

Maybe the Olympics isn't the place for that. Maybe we need a new competition; one more appropriate for people using augmentations. But once that new competition is created, it's going to be the NFL team to the Olympics JV High School team.
 
2012-07-06 10:08:36 AM

raygundan: Dwight_Yeast: But we come back around to basic human anatomy, and the fact that he's at a huge disadvantage to begin with and the prosthetics are binging him up to the point that he's on par with people competing at the Olympic level.

Right now, things are a wash. Studies seem to indicate that his fake legs are somewhat better than his real legs would have been, trading early acceleration for substantially more efficient top-end speed. It's just enough to qualify him. It doesn't really break anything, since he's not likely to win or break a record, which is probably why they've let him in.

But if this were a blanket rule change rather than a one-time exception, I guarantee that 2016 would be the Cyborg Olympics, and there would be both voluntary and "voluntary" amputations to increase performance.

I'm glad he's in, but I'm also glad they seem to be treating it as a one-time thing. And more importantly, I think the crucial distinction is that he did not seek this out. He's a special case. But if the ruling stands for all athletes, people will.


No, he's worked very hard to make this a "thing" at this point.

Sorry, but the guy shouldn't be allowed to compete.
 
2012-07-06 12:29:36 PM

Two16: No, he's worked very hard to make this a "thing" at this point.


You misunderstand me. I meant he did not seek out amputation, which happened when he was one year old as a result of not having shins or some such. The difference between him competing and what will happen if this becomes a blanket rule is that there will be people who will cut their legs off on purpose.
 
2012-07-06 12:42:26 PM

GlassWalker: But once that new competition is created, it's going to be the NFL team to the Olympics JV High School team.


Or, it will the Preakness to Formula 1.
 
2012-07-06 03:13:36 PM

raygundan: Two16: No, he's worked very hard to make this a "thing" at this point.

You misunderstand me. I meant he did not seek out amputation, which happened when he was one year old as a result of not having shins or some such. The difference between him competing and what will happen if this becomes a blanket rule is that there will be people who will cut their legs off on purpose.


Ah.. gotcha. And I agree with you.
 
2012-07-06 11:29:24 PM
Holy crap. I just read most of this thread. For those of you who think he's got some kind of unfair advantage, you're blithering idiots. I'm a T&F fan and the general consensus is that Oscar would be world class if he had his lower limbs, probably even faster. No other prosthetic athletes have come close to what he's done as far as his 400 times.

Clearly there are others with "magic" legs out there. Why don't they all run faster than the current world records if they have such an advantage?
HINT: They're missing their farking limbs you idiots.
 
2012-07-07 03:03:02 AM

HeathenHealer: Holy crap. I just read most of this thread. For those of you who think he's got some kind of unfair advantage, you're blithering idiots. I'm a T&F fan and the general consensus is that Oscar would be world class if he had his lower limbs, probably even faster. No other prosthetic athletes have come close to what he's done as far as his 400 times.

Clearly there are others with "magic" legs out there. Why don't they all run faster than the current world records if they have such an advantage?
HINT: They're missing their farking limbs you idiots.


No one is questioning his drive or potential, the are questioning if the match is equitable or not.

Heck even in motor and horse racing there's the concept of common specs.
 
2012-07-07 03:48:06 PM

HeathenHealer: the general consensus is that Oscar would be world class if he had his lower limbs, probably even faster.


There is absolutely no way to prove this. If he had lost his limbs as an adult there would be a frame of reference to possibly draw this conclusion (but it would still be guess work). Since he lost them as a child, it is silly to try to conclude this. You have no way to know what his musculature would be. You can say he is ultra-competitive. So what? I know many ultracompetitive people that are slow as fark.

Even if it gives no advantage, he is still allowed to use something that others aren't. You can bring up glasses (or corrective lenses), but that would be a bad comparison because anyone could use lenses.
 
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