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(WRCB)   First they came for the 10 Commandments and we threw a hissy fit. Now they tell us we can't pray to Jesus before commission meetings and we are NOT going to take THIS laying down, by gum   (wrcbtv.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, First they came..., teachings, hissy fit, Lord's Prayer, Alliance Defense Fund, Hamilton County, prayers  
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2734 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Jul 2012 at 2:53 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-04 08:39:43 PM  

PsiChick: skullkrusher: Thorndyke Barnhard: FloydA: "Father, there's a lot of confusion as to how we should pray," Pastor Toby Brogden intones.

In church How about literally anyhow and anywhere you want EXCEPT on the motherfarking job that is funded by motherfarking tax payers and is bound by constitutional motherfarking limits, you moronic farknugget. That's what it's for!


...If you'll pardon the slight correction...

why the exception? Christian councilmembers want to have a short prayer before getting down to business. OMG STOP FORCING YOUR RELIGION ON MEEE!

Seriously, does anyone really give a flying fark about this public piety bullshiat?

A) It's annoying. B) It's creepy.


so mock and deride them. Do no try to impose your will on them and deny them the right to practice their religion like Kim Jong Whidbey here
 
2012-07-04 08:51:19 PM  

skullkrusher: so mock and deride them. Do no try to impose your will on them and deny them the right to practice their religion like Kim Jong Whidbey here


Skull, unless something's stopping them from praying in their homes, when they're on the job, they represent their employer, not themselves. They don't get to express religious faith. That's just how we roll here in America.

When they punch out, they can pray nonstop until they clock in again, but unless there's some big problem like not having anywhere to pray or something, yeah, no, they can STFU.
 
2012-07-04 09:02:35 PM  

PsiChick: Skull, unless something's stopping them from praying in their homes, when they're on the job, they represent their employer, not themselves. They don't get to express religious faith. That's just how we roll here in America.


bullshiat. Their employer IS the government which is expressly forbidden from preventing them from exercising their religion.

PsiChick: When they punch out, they can pray nonstop until they clock in again, but unless there's some big problem like not having anywhere to pray or something, yeah, no, they can STFU.


the Constitution is not put on hold when you get to work. There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about them starting their council sessions with a prayer. Preventing them from doing so, however, is and is by far the far more egregious action.
 
2012-07-04 09:03:55 PM  

ShuyaNanahara: kid_icarus:
Oh, there is merchandise for that. Please visit your local Christian bookstore for all your Jesus swag needs.

Do you guys know where I can get one of those gold necklaces with a 'T' on it?


Its a cross.

/ Across from where?
 
2012-07-04 09:07:20 PM  

skullkrusher: PsiChick: Skull, unless something's stopping them from praying in their homes, when they're on the job, they represent their employer, not themselves. They don't get to express religious faith. That's just how we roll here in America.

bullshiat. Their employer IS the government which is expressly forbidden from preventing them from exercising their religion.

PsiChick: When they punch out, they can pray nonstop until they clock in again, but unless there's some big problem like not having anywhere to pray or something, yeah, no, they can STFU.

the Constitution is not put on hold when you get to work. There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about them starting their council sessions with a prayer. Preventing them from doing so, however, is and is by far the far more egregious action.


Skull, the problem here is that we have separation of church and state. It means either a) we have no prayer, b) we have ALL POSSIBLE prayers, even that squirrel prayer the troll guy made up, or c) we have the lawsuit from hell.

We make lawmakers go with A on the clock, because it's the least waste of taxpayer dollars and time. And doesn't have vague connotations of 'I am making these laws because of my religion', which is a HUGE no-no.
 
2012-07-04 09:14:29 PM  

PsiChick: Skull, the problem here is that we have separation of church and state. It means either a) we have no prayer, b) we have ALL POSSIBLE prayers, even that squirrel prayer the troll guy made up, or c) we have the lawsuit from hell.


which is what TFA is about. Including other faiths in their pre-session blessing. Glad to hear you are cool with this incredibly innocuous, albeit silly and superficially pious, activity.

PsiChick: We make lawmakers go with A on the clock, because it's the least waste of taxpayer dollars and time. And doesn't have vague connotations of 'I am making these laws because of my religion', which is a HUGE no-no.


these guys are saying a short prayer prior to their session. It's ok. No atheists were harmed in the filming of this City Council session
 
2012-07-04 09:20:24 PM  

skullkrusher: PsiChick: Skull, the problem here is that we have separation of church and state. It means either a) we have no prayer, b) we have ALL POSSIBLE prayers, even that squirrel prayer the troll guy made up, or c) we have the lawsuit from hell.

which is what TFA is about. Including other faiths in their pre-session blessing. Glad to hear you are cool with this incredibly innocuous, albeit silly and superficially pious, activity.

PsiChick: We make lawmakers go with A on the clock, because it's the least waste of taxpayer dollars and time. And doesn't have vague connotations of 'I am making these laws because of my religion', which is a HUGE no-no.

these guys are saying a short prayer prior to their session. It's ok. No atheists were harmed in the filming of this City Council session


There is no way to include B without pissing off atheists and resulting in C.

Let me put this another way: Do you want to pay for the lawsuit and be that twerp who okayed violating Separation of Church and State?
 
2012-07-04 09:25:07 PM  

JadedRaverLA: ShuyaNanahara: kid_icarus:
Oh, there is merchandise for that. Please visit your local Christian bookstore for all your Jesus swag needs.

Do you guys know where I can get one of those gold necklaces with a 'T' on it?

Its a cross.

/ Across from where?


Phew, I'm glad someone finally responded. I thought I'd made a huge mistake.
 
2012-07-04 09:27:19 PM  

PsiChick: There is no way to include B without pissing off atheists and resulting in C.


that's the thing. If atheists are pissed that people are praying in city hall, too farking bad. If they are pissed that city hall is passing laws violating their freedom of religion, that's something else entirely. Being pissed that people are praying doesn't mean your rights are being violated. It means you are far too sensitive to live outside of a big plastic bubble

PsiChick: Let me put this another way: Do you want to pay for the lawsuit and be that twerp who okayed violating Separation of Church and State?


There is no violation of church and state here except in the suit brought by those two doofuses (doofusi?) Praying in unison in a public building is not a violation of the separation of church and state
 
2012-07-04 09:36:32 PM  

skullkrusher: PsiChick: There is no way to include B without pissing off atheists and resulting in C.

that's the thing. If atheists are pissed that people are praying in city hall, too farking bad. If they are pissed that city hall is passing laws violating their freedom of religion, that's something else entirely. Being pissed that people are praying doesn't mean your rights are being violated. It means you are far too sensitive to live outside of a big plastic bubble

PsiChick: Let me put this another way: Do you want to pay for the lawsuit and be that twerp who okayed violating Separation of Church and State?

There is no violation of church and state here except in the suit brought by those two doofuses (doofusi?) Praying in unison in a public building is not a violation of the separation of church and state


Actually, it is, because it's implying that the State takes a side in the religion-v-atheism debate--and sides with religion. Cheering for one team is supporting them. Support is as much a violation as oppression.
 
2012-07-04 10:04:40 PM  

PsiChick: Actually, it is, because it's implying that the State takes a side in the religion-v-atheism debate--and sides with religion. Cheering for one team is supporting them. Support is as much a violation as oppression.


That ship sailed quite some time ago
 
2012-07-04 10:06:48 PM  

skullkrusher: because you are an authoritarian dickbag


You keep using that word. It's not the insult you think it is.:)

Actually, all you've been doing is throwing around insults to distract from the fact that you believe people have the "right" to shove prayer down people's throats in a government facility.

Same old *yawn* skullkrusher.
 
2012-07-04 10:09:57 PM  

whidbey: You keep using that word. It's not the insult you think it is.:)


To you authoritarian is a complement. I know, you're proud of your desire to force people to live as you want them to.

whidbey: Actually, all you've been doing is throwing around insults to distract from the fact that you believe people have the "right" to shove prayer down people's throats practice their faith in a government facility.


try not to use such pussified liberal cliches, ok? Stick with honesty
 
2012-07-04 10:11:36 PM  

skullkrusher: Stick with honesty


Oh trust me, I am being honest. And I'd say I've pegged you pretty good here.

Hence all the projection from your end.
 
2012-07-04 10:14:51 PM  

whidbey: skullkrusher: Stick with honesty

Oh trust me, I am being honest. And I'd say I've pegged you pretty good here.

Hence all the projection from your end.


Well, I'm convinced.
 
2012-07-04 10:16:31 PM  

skullkrusher: whidbey: Actually, all you've been doing is throwing around insults to distract from the fact that you believe people have the "right" to shove prayer down people's throats practice their faith in a government facility.


Yeah well you don't. Not when it infringes on someone else's rights.

And eventually the whole idea of the a chaplain performing services in a government facility such as the SCOTUS and Congress will also be successfully challenged.
 
2012-07-04 10:18:28 PM  

whidbey: skullkrusher: whidbey: Actually, all you've been doing is throwing around insults to distract from the fact that you believe people have the "right" to shove prayer down people's throats practice their faith in a government facility.

Yeah well you don't. Not when it infringes on someone else's rights.

And eventually the whole idea of the a chaplain performing services in a government facility such as the SCOTUS and Congress will also be successfully challenged.


ok, now you're just repeating yourself. It was stupid when you first said it, it remains stupid now 500 repetitions later
 
2012-07-04 10:22:26 PM  

skullkrusher: whidbey: skullkrusher: Stick with honesty

Oh trust me, I am being honest. And I'd say I've pegged you pretty good here.

Hence all the projection from your end.

Well, I'm convinced.


Oh yeah. The insults, the ridiculous Fox News talking points about me being an "authoritarian," the "Kim Jong" bit.

All silent cries of desperation on your part because we're not buying your weak argument. None of us here, I might add.

And eventually the whole idea of the a chaplain performing services in a government facility such as the SCOTUS and Congress will also be successfully challenged.

ok, now you're just repeating yourself. It was stupid when you first said it


Nothing stupid about it.

Religion does not belong in our government. Period.

Get over it.
 
2012-07-04 10:25:25 PM  

whidbey: Oh yeah. The insults, the ridiculous Fox News talking points about me being an "authoritarian," the "Kim Jong" bit.


You said "talking points"! Drink!
Seriously dude... who the fark am I kidding, you're not better than that

whidbey: Nothing stupid about it.

Religion does not belong in our government. Period.

Get over it.


People are allowed to pray in front of you. Even in public buildings. They always will be allowed to. Your hiding behind the veil of alleged "rights" violations at the hands of public prayers when you really just want to prevent people from practicing their religion is cowardly and transparent.

Get over it.
 
2012-07-04 10:30:03 PM  

ShuyaNanahara: JadedRaverLA: ShuyaNanahara: kid_icarus:
Oh, there is merchandise for that. Please visit your local Christian bookstore for all your Jesus swag needs.

Do you guys know where I can get one of those gold necklaces with a 'T' on it?

Its a cross.

/ Across from where?

Phew, I'm glad someone finally responded. I thought I'd made a huge mistake.


That's okay. I'm here to help. Are you forgetting I was a professional twice over -- an analyst and a therapist.

The world's first analrapist.
 
2012-07-04 10:35:33 PM  

skullkrusher: People are allowed to pray in front of you. Even in public buildings. They always will be allowed to. Your hiding behind the veil of alleged "rights" violations at the hands of public prayers when you really just want to prevent people from practicing their religion is cowardly and transparent.

Get over it.


Oh great. Another Fox News style disingenuous talking point AND you feel the need to steal my own comments instead of coming up with your own.

I took you off ignore for this weak sauce?
 
2012-07-04 10:40:24 PM  

skullkrusher: bulldg4life: It's just not fair when we can't force our views on everyone else.

like when a person of no faith hires a lawyer to prevent people of faith from praying before work?


not from praying. from making a public spectacle of it. do you not see how this is a way of ostracizing and singling out the "others" by those of "faith"?
 
2012-07-04 10:55:53 PM  

Hobodeluxe: skullkrusher: bulldg4life: It's just not fair when we can't force our views on everyone else.

like when a person of no faith hires a lawyer to prevent people of faith from praying before work?

not from praying. from making a public spectacle of it. do you not see how this is a way of ostracizing and singling out the "others" by those of "faith"?


freedom of religion, just do it privately. Better yet, maybe you should only meet in secret caves with a fish on the entrance signifying it as a safe haven for the practice of religion.

You don't have the right to feel included. The government is prevented from establishing religion and preventing you from practicing as you see fit. The government can't make you pray. They can't use public funds to erect religious statues. They can't pray in public schools. Of course, a few teachers can say grace together before lunch or does that make the people sitting near them feel left out? People who work for the government don't sign away their constitutionally protected rights because they are in a public building. Nothing there about not having people pray in front of you and making you feel uncomfortable
 
2012-07-04 11:56:40 PM  

skullkrusher: freedom of religion,


along with that comes freedom from religion. the workplace is not a temple. it's not a private club. it's a public workplace. and allowing a certain select few the ability to use it for their own selfish purpose of a public display of piety.
 
2012-07-04 11:57:45 PM  

Hobodeluxe: skullkrusher: freedom of religion,

along with that comes freedom from religion. the workplace is not a temple. it's not a private club. it's a public workplace. and not for allowing a certain select few the ability to use it for their own selfish purpose of a public display of piety.

 
2012-07-05 12:22:06 AM  

skullkrusher: There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about them starting their council sessions with a prayer. Preventing them from doing so, however, is and is by far the far more egregious action.


When the prayer is during official government business then there is a problem. If they all need to get together and prayer before the session begins they are completely free to do so. Or will Jesus/God not hear their prayers unless they are done into a microphone on the government dime?
 
2012-07-05 12:25:46 AM  
Hobodeluxe:

There is no possible way for you to make the person you're arguing with respond to reason.
 
2012-07-05 12:29:25 AM  

FloydA: Hobodeluxe:

There is no possible way for you to make the person you're arguing with respond to reason.


100% reason. It is knee-jerk silliness that sees it as anything but. No one is compelled to pray. No one is compelled to worship or swear fealty to a deity or faith. This is a group of people unanimously deciding to begin their meetings with a blessing of some sort and also unanimously deciding to invite members of other faiths to join them in making this blessing. Those farking monsters. This is why regular people laugh at you guys.

Luckily, there is no shortage of knee-jerk silliness on Fark so here we are.
 
2012-07-05 12:30:35 AM  

FloydA: Hobodeluxe:

There is no possible way for you to make the person you're arguing with respond to reason.


It occurs to me that my words might be misinterpreted. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you should stop; if this is fun for you, go for it. We all have our hobbies. Just making sure you're aware that you've engaged in a Sisyphean task.
 
2012-07-05 12:37:28 AM  

Pincy: When the prayer is during official government business then there is a problem.


Oh, I completely understand that your position requires this to be a problem. Difficulty is that it is not a problem. Take it to the Supreme Court and wonder at your chances when they begin their day with a recitation which ends "God save the United States and this honorable court"

Pincy: If they all need to get together and prayer before the session begins they are completely free to do so.


they're also free to pray after the session starts too. Just like Congress begins with a benediction. And football teams at private and public universities alike pray before games. Tricksy 1st Amendment.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is stupid public God bothering. They are completely within their rights to do it though and these two jokers bringing the suit are bored attention whores.
 
2012-07-05 03:14:47 AM  

skullkrusher: Pincy: When the prayer is during official government business then there is a problem.

Oh, I completely understand that your position requires this to be a problem. Difficulty is that it is not a problem. Take it to the Supreme Court and wonder at your chances when they begin their day with a recitation which ends "God save the United States and this honorable court"

Pincy: If they all need to get together and prayer before the session begins they are completely free to do so.

they're also free to pray after the session starts too. Just like Congress begins with a benediction. And football teams at private and public universities alike pray before games. Tricksy 1st Amendment.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is stupid public God bothering. They are completely within their rights to do it though and these two jokers bringing the suit are bored attention whores.


Not on the public dime, they don't.

And yes, that applies to publicly-funded universities.

It is not anyone's "right" to cram religion down people's throats. How many times do you need to be reminded of this?

As stated many times in this thread, we DO have the right to be free of it, and displays as seen in TFA are inappropriate.

I have no problem with prayers at football games. I do when it involves my city government.

It does not belong there. Pretty much ever.

this is why regular people laugh at you guys.

Ah the old "us vs them" putdown. How original.
 
2012-07-05 09:13:14 AM  

skullkrusher: FloydA: Hobodeluxe:

There is no possible way for you to make the person you're arguing with respond to reason.

100% reason. It is knee-jerk silliness that sees it as anything but. No one is compelled to pray. No one is compelled to worship or swear fealty to a deity or faith. This is a group of people unanimously deciding to begin their meetings with a blessing of some sort and also unanimously deciding to invite members of other faiths to join them in making this blessing. Those farking monsters. This is why regular people laugh at you guys.

Luckily, there is no shortage of knee-jerk silliness on Fark so here we are.


... and if someone in attendance believes otherwise and it is no longer UNANIMOUS then they'll skip the public prayer?

... do they poll everyone before each meeting to determine if anyone has changed their position (thereby also making it no longer unanimous)?

... is there no private room where "the faithful" can gather before the public meeting to pray? Must it be done to an audience? Will God not hear the prayer if offered in private?

IMHO it's a question of accommodation. It is VERY EASY to accommodate people who want to pray without having it become a necessary part of a meeting whose audience includes people who do not share a single believe system. By making it a part of the meeting, they have explicitly REMOVED accommodation for anyone who doesn't share their religious belief.
 
2012-07-05 09:17:18 AM  
"... by gum?"
 
2012-07-05 10:08:57 AM  

skullkrusher: People are allowed to pray in front of you. Even in public buildings. They always will be allowed to.


In the case of private citizens, yes. However, civil rights are one of the few cases where being an elected official can make conduct that would otherwise be lawful, unlawful.
 
2012-07-05 10:50:28 AM  
So the prayer is open to anyone?

I hope Rev. Brown leads one of their prayers...

img3.imageshack.us

// He did help Gilligan get off the island...
 
2012-07-05 11:58:44 AM  
dailypop.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-05 08:45:37 PM  

skullkrusher: PsiChick: Actually, it is, because it's implying that the State takes a side in the religion-v-atheism debate--and sides with religion. Cheering for one team is supporting them. Support is as much a violation as oppression.

That ship sailed quite some time ago


Originally, back when the Founding Fathers walked the Earth, it was customary to praise God every time you so much as scratched your arse. It meant about as much as saying 'bless you' when someone sneezes does now, but some offices were created that, while technically a violation of Separation, are damned hard to remove.

I completely fail to see why one person who can get away with breaking a rule because of X, Y, and Z means that the guy over there can break the same rule with no excuse. That would be like saying that, because this person here got off on the theft charges because of a technicality, all robbery is now legal.
 
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