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(CBS New York)   Stopped by the police and want to secretly record the encounter? The ACLU has an app for that   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 127
    More: Cool, ACLU-NJ, ACLU, application software, information needs, CBS Radio, Rodney King  
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13564 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2012 at 10:52 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-04 11:47:26 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Why would you want to secretly record a police encounter? Isn't the entire point of recording the encounter to insure that the police don't misbehave? Everybody should always openly record any police encounter they are a part of, and it would be helpful if bystanders also recorded. Don't give them a single second of privacy on the job.


so get a dashboard cam, and some of those gopro cams set up in your car, then have all of it streamed to a qik account, be sure to get a full 360 surround though

/it'd be kind of interesting to drive down the freeway with a live feed for people to watch jackasses drive from the safety of their own homes
 
2012-07-04 11:49:14 AM
Didn't RTFA, but if true, good.
 
2012-07-04 11:51:03 AM

Karac: CokeBear: If they're not doing anything wrong, they should have nothing to fear.

A cop objecting to being recorded is practically an admission of guilt.

You'd think most police would welcome people recording their actions in public. Get hit with a excessive force complaint and not only do you have your dash cam that might not show all the action when you were out of view, but you'll also have all the cell phone recordings to show that you only tased the guy after he pulled a knife and not just for shiats and giggles.


That assumes that most police aren't using excessive force or covering for partners using excessive force.
Since most police don't welcome people recording their actions, then that assumption is probably incorrect.
 
2012-07-04 11:51:20 AM

gingerjet: Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.

You sound white.


I needed a good laugh right now, thanks!

/last time I was stopped by the cops other than 'hey you ok alright' I had a black coworker walking with me
//white girl
///aclu member
 
2012-07-04 11:51:40 AM

Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.



Interesting, I was just watching this.

Being fat, drunk and stupid.a minority is no way to go through life, son. Link
 
2012-07-04 11:52:18 AM

gingerjet: Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.

You sound white.


Yep, sounds like his kids are white too. I doubt he's ever had a police officer, at a routine traffic violation stop, start asking irrelevant questions about his internationally adopted child right after the local version of Arizonas' SB 1070 passed.
 
2012-07-04 11:53:08 AM

Carth: I'm betting the app gets more use by people wanting to covertly record sexual encounters than people wanting to record police arrests.


For most single people of either gender, i would definitely suggest recording consensual encounters. So that later when a partner says "but I had two beers that night and I decided this morning I don't like what happened", you don't have to spend the rest of your life in prison.
 
2012-07-04 11:53:11 AM

Karac: You'd think most police would welcome people recording their actions in public. Get hit with a excessive force complaint and not only do you have your dash cam that might not show all the action when you were out of view, but you'll also have all the cell phone recordings to show that you only tased the guy after he pulled a knife and not just for shiats and giggles.


So the guy has a knife in one hand and is recording the assault with his cellphone in the other? Does it look like this?

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-04 11:55:13 AM
I can imagine people that are not from NJ using the 'know your rights' button and getting pretty confused when cops laugh at them. Get one out per state!
 
2012-07-04 11:55:36 AM

magill248: Been a police officer for 19 years. I couldn't care less if you want to record me on a traffic stop; I've nothing to hide.


This is how it should be. Thanks.
 
2012-07-04 11:56:09 AM
since i dont live in one of those states that require 2-party consent, i have a new app on my phone.
 
2012-07-04 11:58:43 AM
Came here for ACLU hate... didn't find any. Maybe people are finally starting to get it.
 
2012-07-04 11:58:44 AM
The fact that everyone is happy to sit around debating the finer points of privacy rights as they relate to public servants in a position of easily abused power who as a whole obviously do not want anyone to have indisputable records of what they do is simply frightening to me.

It is alarming that there exist laws which can be tortured into preventing such things from happening, laws so carelessly written they prevent such things happening or laws that exists expressly to prevent such things from happening but in the end I care much, much more about why they don't want it to happen in the first place.

Forest > Trees
 
2012-07-04 11:59:42 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Why would you want to secretly record a police encounter? Isn't the entire point of recording the encounter to insure that the police don't misbehave? Everybody should always openly record any police encounter they are a part of, and it would be helpful if bystanders also recorded. Don't give them a single second of privacy on the job.


Politicians should also have a camera in their office that can't be turned off and streamed on the web.
 
2012-07-04 12:00:32 PM
Link

This Land Is Your Land
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me
 
2012-07-04 12:01:11 PM
 
2012-07-04 12:05:36 PM

austin_millbarge: Came here for ACLU hate... didn't find any. Maybe people are finally starting to get it.


I think the cop hate outweighs the ACLU hate here, no contest.

Now if it was ACLU vs NRA or something, then we'd have a rip roaring pay-per-view event.
 
2012-07-04 12:05:58 PM

Carth: Politicians should also have a camera in their office that can't be turned off and streamed on the web.


That would be excellent, but unfortunately we have the opposite. Boehner can just turn off the CSPAN cameras whenever he and his party are about to do something awful.
 
2012-07-04 12:07:49 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I wonder if this would apply to dashboard cams for civilian vehicles. We live in an area filled with jackass drivers who think it is amusing to cut you off and slam on the brakes. I've been contemplating getting one installed.


swoop and squat. fake accident(s) for the money. this video report is from Britain but they happen all over. it was interesting to see how much this is happening in Russia. seems the latest must have car accessory is a dash cam. there are lots of youtube video from there.
 
2012-07-04 12:12:18 PM

magill248: Been a police officer for 19 years. I couldn't care less if you want to record me on a traffic stop; I've nothing to hide.


Reported! I mean, recorded!
 
2012-07-04 12:25:16 PM

Marcintosh: Link

This Land Is Your Land
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me


Excellent, comrade.
 
2012-07-04 12:27:22 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Karac: You'd think most police would welcome people recording their actions in public. Get hit with a excessive force complaint and not only do you have your dash cam that might not show all the action when you were out of view, but you'll also have all the cell phone recordings to show that you only tased the guy after he pulled a knife and not just for shiats and giggles.

So the guy has a knife in one hand and is recording the assault with his cellphone in the other? Does it look like this?

[i45.tinypic.com image 480x360]


Small typo, I omitted that the cell phone recording would be from other bystanders. After all, Rodney King didn't videotape himself getting beaten. If those cops hadn't used excessive force they'd have sent thank you cards and vouchers for 1 free pass at a traffic stop to everyone filming.
 
2012-07-04 12:29:53 PM

Lunaville: gingerjet: Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.

You sound white.

Yep, sounds like his kids are white too. I doubt he's ever had a police officer, at a routine traffic violation stop, start asking irrelevant questions about his internationally adopted child right after the local version of Arizonas' SB 1070 passed.


Wait, I have kids? International kids?? My wife is gonna be pissed.
 
2012-07-04 12:33:53 PM

Weaver95: a LOT of those laws are being ruled unconstitutional. the cops don't have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' when they're out in public. Neither do average citizens either for that matter, so the courts have been leveling the playing field as far as that goes.


After all, Mr. Police Officer Sir, if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.
 
2012-07-04 12:35:51 PM

Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.


Or maybe you're doing it really, really right.

Kinda depends on your point of view, I guess.
 
2012-07-04 12:47:00 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Why would you want to secretly record a police encounter?


I dunno.. to catch them breaking the law??!?
 
2012-07-04 12:49:17 PM

fredklein: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Why would you want to secretly record a police encounter?

I dunno.. to catch them breaking the law??!?


Great, they can break my jaw and I'll get a settlement in court ... or I'll record them openly and not get my jaw broken in the first place.
 
2012-07-04 12:50:21 PM
"The app is currently available for Android users and a version for iPhones is in the works."

The ACLU thinks Mac users don't commit crime? That's racist.
 
2012-07-04 12:52:37 PM
Some years back, I read a book called "The Truth Machine" in which everyone wore watches linked to off site secure storage that allowed them to, in court, submit recordings in evidence.

I thought that I would rather not live in a world like that.

I still feel that way.

OTOH, I also agree with the statement that if the Cops are doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear from recordings of their activities.

And with the militarization of the cops - example: Yesteray at post office, state wildlife cop. 21 round automatic pistol and THREE extra magazines - 84 shots, just on his belt. WTF? And don't get me started on the High and Tight styling of the current pseudo cops/assault troops....

/cops used to have hair
//I even knew some with as much as 4-5" of hair
///on their heads...
 
2012-07-04 12:55:03 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: 6655321: LEOs will, during the routine patdown of a person, confiscate any cellphone as department policy. This is being done to protect the officers' safety. Then add a charge of recording a public official in the performance of their duties.

Feel safe, citizen?

They'll also rape you, then go back in time to prevent you from going to school on the day they teach the importance of using citations when making substantial claims.


You don't need to cite common knowledge and most people are aware and have heard of this happening to the point that asking for a citation either makes you a troll or completely ignorant. I can think of several cases off the top of my head where this has happened and a quick search of google reveals dozens of instances. The fact that you cannot is not a failure in his citation, it is a failure of your ability to pay attention.

/Go rtfas instead of just posting in the threads.
//you might actually learn something
 
2012-07-04 12:56:10 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: fredklein: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Why would you want to secretly record a police encounter?

I dunno.. to catch them breaking the law??!?

Great, they can break my jaw and I'll get a settlement in court ... or I'll record them openly and not get my jaw broken in the first place.


...and the next time they catch you without a camera, they'll break your jaw and your legs.


It's simple:

If people record openly, the cops will treat the people with cameras in their hands nicely, and treat people without cameras badly.

If people record secretly, the cops never know if they are being recorded, and therefore have to treat everyone nicely.

This is the same theory behind 'surprise inspections' and 'pop quizzes'.
 
2012-07-04 12:56:10 PM

fjnorton: Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.

Yeah, my wife got pulled over for not having headlights on 1/2 hour before dusk.


police are legally obligated to pull over good looking heads and chat them up. it's the law.
 
2012-07-04 12:58:01 PM

fredklein: ...and the next time they catch you without a camera, they'll break your jaw and your legs.


It's simple:

If people record openly, the cops will treat the people with cameras in their hands nicely, and treat people without cameras badly.

If people record secretly, the cops never know if they are being recorded, and therefore have to treat everyone nicely.

This is the same theory behind 'surprise inspections' and 'pop quizzes'.


Great. You go ahead and secretly tape them and get your ass beat. I'll openly tape them and they'll leave me alone. Win-win.
 
2012-07-04 01:01:39 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Carth: I'm betting the app gets more use by people wanting to covertly record sexual encounters than people wanting to record police arrests.

For most single people of either gender, i would definitely suggest recording consensual encounters. So that later when a partner says "but I had two beers that night and I decided this morning I don't like what happened", you don't have to spend the rest of your life in prison.


I used to do that in college, I simply hit the audio record and placed my phone down. Even though that was probably illegal in my state and inadmissible at least I would have something to go viral around the school and a theoretical accuser would probably fess up somewhere down the line.

Never had a problem though, I always found cuddling afterwards and making sure to call/text a few times was the best proactive defense. Most of the guys who had false accusations land on them seem to be the guys that like to act like a complete dick and send them on their way once the party was over. I wasn't the best looking guy so it was easy to get them to think they were the ones breaking it off with me.
 
2012-07-04 01:07:30 PM
cdn.arstechnica.net
"I've made a big mistake..."

/"Do it! Do it!"
 
2012-07-04 01:08:16 PM
Dammit, wrong thread..

/too much 4th.
 
2012-07-04 01:20:14 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Great. You go ahead and secretly tape them and get your ass beat. I'll openly tape them and they'll leave me alone. Win-win.


You completely missed the point. I'll say it once more, explained like I do to a child:

If you openly record cops, then they will be nice to you... but only while you're holding a camera. The minute you're not holding a camera, they know they no longer need to be nice to you.

If I secretly record the cops, they can never be sure if they are being recorded or not, so they always have to be nice to me.
 
2012-07-04 01:26:52 PM

bmwericus: Some years back, I read a book called "The Truth Machine" in which everyone wore watches linked to off site secure storage that allowed them to, in court, submit recordings in evidence.


upload.wikimedia.org

Brin also wrote the non-fiction The Transparent Society that covers some of these issues.
 
2012-07-04 01:30:40 PM

Nem Wan: Illinois is a "failed state" with no recognizable government. Anyone pulling you over is a member of one of the gangs vying for control.


Yeah.....well, I don't know what's going on North of I-80 in Rahmsylvania, but here a bit further South we haven't seen too much disruption yet. Don't get me wrong, we're all loaded up and ready for bear, but so far no zombie hordes on the horizon.
 
2012-07-04 01:32:43 PM

bmwericus: Some years back, I read a book called "The Truth Machine" in which everyone wore watches linked to off site secure storage that allowed them to, in court, submit recordings in evidence.

I thought that I would rather not live in a world like that.

I still feel that way.

OTOH, I also agree with the statement that if the Cops are doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear from recordings of their activities.

And with the militarization of the cops - example: Yesteray at post office, state wildlife cop. 21 round automatic pistol and THREE extra magazines - 84 shots, just on his belt. WTF? And don't get me started on the High and Tight styling of the current pseudo cops/assault troops....

/cops used to have hair
//I even knew some with as much as 4-5" of hair
///on their heads...


I imagine a state wildlife cop has the chance of running across grow-ops in the forest... poachers... drunk assholes with guns, etc.

Plenty to worry about as far as cop authority goes but eh. Use your outrage somewhere else other than ammo and hair (so suspects can't grab it in a fight is one reason).
 
2012-07-04 01:35:13 PM

ciberido: bmwericus: Some years back, I read a book called "The Truth Machine" in which everyone wore watches linked to off site secure storage that allowed them to, in court, submit recordings in evidence.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 315x475]

Brin also wrote the non-fiction The Transparent Society that covers some of these issues.


I think there was another author who wrote about a society filled with surveillance cameras/TV screens. Of course, they weren't used to help people win lawsuits, but rather keep the populace under control. And inform them the chocolate ration had been increased this week. And that Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace, and Ignorance is Strength.

/imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever
//Better the hell not be obscure
 
2012-07-04 01:41:02 PM

ciberido: bmwericus: Some years back, I read a book called "The Truth Machine" in which everyone wore watches linked to off site secure storage that allowed them to, in court, submit recordings in evidence.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 315x475]

Brin also wrote the non-fiction The Transparent Society that covers some of these issues.


A wikipedia link? No Amazon link? Now, I have to schlep all the way over to Amazon to put the book on my wish list. I am put upon, I tell you, put upon!
 
2012-07-04 01:44:47 PM
Is there an app that turns the ticket the cop gives you into a warning that he was originally gonna give you until he found out you were recording him.......you know...for liability purposes
 
2012-07-04 02:08:07 PM

Lunaville: ciberido: bmwericus: Some years back, I read a book called "The Truth Machine" in which everyone wore watches linked to off site secure storage that allowed them to, in court, submit recordings in evidence.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 315x475]

Brin also wrote the non-fiction The Transparent Society that covers some of these issues.

A wikipedia link? No Amazon link? Now, I have to schlep all the way over to Amazon to put the book on my wish list. I am put upon, I tell you, put upon!


Kiln People is a good read - worth the schlep.
 
2012-07-04 02:15:19 PM
If cops have nothing to hide, they shouldn't mind being recorded.

You have no expectation of privacy in the street.
 
2012-07-04 02:25:46 PM
for the two party states.


"Hi Officer, I'm going to record myself, you should be made aware that any interaction with me implies consent to be recorded, if you wish to not be recorded, you should get back in your cruiser and drive away."
 
2012-07-04 02:38:52 PM

ZAZ: Be careful. This app is illegal in all-party consent states such as Massachusetts and Illinois. Don't get yourself in more trouble than you deserve.


Those laws are unconstitutional. I plan on getting and using the iPhone app as soon as it is available. And then using it until I get arrested for breaking an unconstitutional law.

/why yes, I have a lot of free time.
/and yes, I have the money and access to lawyers to fight this.
/I am sooooo getting arrested next time I get pulled over for speeding.
 
2012-07-04 02:40:01 PM

studebaker hoch: If cops have nothing to hide, they shouldn't mind being recorded.

You have no expectation of privacy in the street.


plus
HOW does two party consent work when some LEO cars have video cameras???
Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha
 
2012-07-04 02:45:51 PM

Girion47: for the two party states.


"Hi Officer, I'm going to record myself, you should be made aware that any interaction with me implies consent to be recorded, if you wish to not be recorded, you should get back in your cruiser and drive away."


"Please be advised that this conversation may be recorded for quality control purposes."
 
2012-07-04 02:46:56 PM
I'm thinking about applying the following sticker to the doors of my car.

" For quality control purposes, ALL conversations may be monitored by audio and/or video methods".

Think it would hold up in court ?
 
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