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(CBS New York)   Stopped by the police and want to secretly record the encounter? The ACLU has an app for that   (newyork.cbslocal.com) divider line 127
    More: Cool, ACLU-NJ, ACLU, application software, information needs, CBS Radio, Rodney King  
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13564 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2012 at 10:52 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-04 10:11:21 AM
Be careful. This app is illegal in all-party consent states such as Massachusetts and Illinois. Don't get yourself in more trouble than you deserve.
 
2012-07-04 10:14:57 AM
Or you could just use Qik, which streams video to a cloud server automatically so even if the local files are deleted you have an off-site backup.
 
2012-07-04 10:18:06 AM

ZAZ: Be careful. This app is illegal in all-party consent states such as Massachusetts and Illinois. Don't get yourself in more trouble than you deserve.


Illinois' eavesdropping law was ruled unconstitutional in May.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-04 10:25:47 AM
Fark It

It was invalidated as applied to people openly recording police dealing with protestors. I did not interpret the decision to apply to secret recording of personal encounters.
 
2012-07-04 10:41:38 AM

Fark It: ZAZ: Be careful. This app is illegal in all-party consent states such as Massachusetts and Illinois. Don't get yourself in more trouble than you deserve.

Illinois' eavesdropping law was ruled unconstitutional in May.


a LOT of those laws are being ruled unconstitutional. the cops don't have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' when they're out in public. Neither do average citizens either for that matter, so the courts have been leveling the playing field as far as that goes.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-04 10:52:41 AM
Weaver95

The decision limiting Illinois' law was based primarily on freedom of the press. Under the circumstances audiovisual recording was the most effective way to report on matters of public concern. Recording a police officer pulling you over, or beating you up, is of lesser public concern than recording a protest march.

I have not seen a wave of invalidations on constitutional grounds. In Massachusetts and Illinois state courts have said you do not have a right to defensive recording. In Massachusetts it's OK if the officer has actual or constructive knowledge of the recording (not merely lack of privacy). In Illinois you must stop recording if he tells you to stop.
 
2012-07-04 10:55:39 AM
You'd think police would loosen up on their policy now that Rodney King is dead.
 
2012-07-04 10:58:12 AM
fark the police.
 
2012-07-04 10:58:25 AM
Weaver95: a LOT of those laws are being ruled unconstitutional. the cops don't have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' when they're out in public. Neither do average citizens either for that matter, so the courts have been leveling the playing field as far as that goes.

I doubt that most of these recorded police encounters would get into a trial.

I'm thinking that Youtube is a far more powerful and effective social forum to expose police corruption.
 
2012-07-04 10:58:33 AM
Well, that helps people out in New Jersey, but until it comes out for Illinois, I'm sure the cops there will continue to put the smackdown on the common citizen who tries recording them...

I'm going to look into Qik, though, since this interests me greatly...
 
2012-07-04 10:58:43 AM

ZAZ: Weaver95

The decision limiting Illinois' law was based primarily on freedom of the press. Under the circumstances audiovisual recording was the most effective way to report on matters of public concern. Recording a police officer pulling you over, or beating you up, is of lesser public concern than recording a protest march.

I have not seen a wave of invalidations on constitutional grounds. In Massachusetts and Illinois state courts have said you do not have a right to defensive recording. In Massachusetts it's OK if the officer has actual or constructive knowledge of the recording (not merely lack of privacy). In Illinois you must stop recording if he tells you to stop.


the courts seem to be leaning on the whole 'reasonable expectation of privacy' standard. i'm not a lawyer but near as I can figure, the way the courts are ruling is along the lines of 'if the cops can spy on people in public...then the public can spy on the cops when they're out in the open as well'.
 
2012-07-04 10:59:24 AM

ZAZ: Weaver95

The decision limiting Illinois' law was based primarily on freedom of the press. Under the circumstances audiovisual recording was the most effective way to report on matters of public concern. Recording a police officer pulling you over, or beating you up, is of lesser public concern than recording a protest march.

I have not seen a wave of invalidations on constitutional grounds. In Massachusetts and Illinois state courts have said you do not have a right to defensive recording. In Massachusetts it's OK if the officer has actual or constructive knowledge of the recording (not merely lack of privacy). In Illinois you must stop recording if he tells you to stop.


Then maybe I should be civilly disobedient
 
2012-07-04 10:59:46 AM
If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.
 
2012-07-04 11:01:54 AM

ZAZ: Be careful. This app is illegal in all-party consent states such as Massachusetts and Illinois. Don't get yourself in more trouble than you deserve.


i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-04 11:02:07 AM

Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.


You sound white.
 
2012-07-04 11:02:18 AM

jakomo002: Weaver95: a LOT of those laws are being ruled unconstitutional. the cops don't have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' when they're out in public. Neither do average citizens either for that matter, so the courts have been leveling the playing field as far as that goes.

I doubt that most of these recorded police encounters would get into a trial.

I'm thinking that Youtube is a far more powerful and effective social forum to expose police corruption.


I honestly don't think that most cops would have problem with being recorded while they're out in public and in uniform. Oh some of the authoritarian dickholes won't like it very much...but they can piss off about it. lets face it - most police work is kinda boring and unexciting: traffic stops, directions, 'show the flag' kinda stuff. actual abuses are, in most cases, fairly rare. that said, when cops DO get abusive then REALLY get abusive....so any check on that sort of thing we can come up with is ok by me.
 
2012-07-04 11:02:32 AM
I hope the quality of the app is better than their shiatty video of how it works.
 
2012-07-04 11:04:22 AM

ZAZ: Weaver95

The decision limiting Illinois' law was based primarily on freedom of the press. Under the circumstances audiovisual recording was the most effective way to report on matters of public concern. Recording a police officer pulling you over, or beating you up, is of lesser public concern than recording a protest march.

I have not seen a wave of invalidations on constitutional grounds. In Massachusetts and Illinois state courts have said you do not have a right to defensive recording. In Massachusetts it's OK if the officer has actual or constructive knowledge of the recording (not merely lack of privacy). In Illinois you must stop recording if he tells you to stop.


I wonder if this would apply to dashboard cams for civilian vehicles. We live in an area filled with jackass drivers who think it is amusing to cut you off and slam on the brakes. I've been contemplating getting one installed.
 
2012-07-04 11:07:04 AM

Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.


At least it's free, takes up no physical space, and weighs nothing. That skews the cost/benefit analysis considerably.
 
2012-07-04 11:08:00 AM

gingerjet: Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.

You sound white.


Said the Minnesotan.
 
2012-07-04 11:08:10 AM

Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.


Yeah, my wife got pulled over for not having headlights on 1/2 hour before dusk.
 
2012-07-04 11:08:27 AM

TwistedIvory: Or you could just use Qik, which streams video to a cloud server automatically so even if the local files are deleted you have an off-site backup.


Came to say this.

Be sure to know the law where you are, unless you're trying to get arrested so you can take it all the way to SCOTUS. If so, I'll throw a few bucks at your defense fund.
 
2012-07-04 11:09:18 AM
Weaver95: I honestly don't think that most cops would have problem with being recorded while they're out in public and in uniform. Oh some of the authoritarian dickholes won't like it very much...but they can piss off about it. lets face it - most police work is kinda boring and unexciting: traffic stops, directions, 'show the flag' kinda stuff. actual abuses are, in most cases, fairly rare. that said, when cops DO get abusive then REALLY get abusive....so any check on that sort of thing we can come up with is ok by me.

Not to mention great PR for the 5-0 if they actually act all proper and legal.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: We live in an area filled with jackass drivers who think it is amusing to cut you off and slam on the brakes.

Maybe work on repealing seatbelt laws, that jackass problem will take care of itself. And I'm pretty sure the police will hose off the pavement after they scrape up the remains.
 
2012-07-04 11:12:29 AM

jakomo002: Weaver95: I honestly don't think that most cops would have problem with being recorded while they're out in public and in uniform. Oh some of the authoritarian dickholes won't like it very much...but they can piss off about it. lets face it - most police work is kinda boring and unexciting: traffic stops, directions, 'show the flag' kinda stuff. actual abuses are, in most cases, fairly rare. that said, when cops DO get abusive then REALLY get abusive....so any check on that sort of thing we can come up with is ok by me.

Not to mention great PR for the 5-0 if they actually act all proper and legal.

whizbangthedirtfarmer: We live in an area filled with jackass drivers who think it is amusing to cut you off and slam on the brakes.

Maybe work on repealing seatbelt laws, that jackass problem will take care of itself. And I'm pretty sure the police will hose off the pavement after they scrape up the remains.


That will do wonders for me and the kids, too, when I finally can't stop in time.
 
2012-07-04 11:13:59 AM
Illinois is a "failed state" with no recognizable government. Anyone pulling you over is a member of one of the gangs vying for control.
 
2012-07-04 11:16:20 AM
LEOs will, during the routine patdown of a person, confiscate any cellphone as department policy. This is being done to protect the officers' safety. Then add a charge of recording a public official in the performance of their duties.

Feel safe, citizen?
 
2012-07-04 11:18:31 AM
whizbangthedirtfarmer; That will do wonders for me and the kids, too, when I finally can't stop in time.

No, no, YOU continue to wear seatbelts. That's pretty much the crux of it, I probably should have mentioned that.
 
2012-07-04 11:18:40 AM

ZAZ: Weaver95

The decision limiting Illinois' law was based primarily on freedom of the press. Under the circumstances audiovisual recording was the most effective way to report on matters of public concern. Recording a police officer pulling you over, or beating you up, is of lesser public concern than recording a protest march.

I have not seen a wave of invalidations on constitutional grounds. In Massachusetts and Illinois state courts have said you do not have a right to defensive recording. In Massachusetts it's OK if the officer has actual or constructive knowledge of the recording (not merely lack of privacy). In Illinois you must stop recording if he tells you to stop.


In Maryland this would fall under wiretapping. I think it is stupid but that is how it plays out. Up until recently they would charge people under that law for openly videotaping in public.


And where is hero tag.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-04 11:19:18 AM
whizbangthedirtfarmer

Video recording in public is generally safe. Audio laws are stricter.

Reasonable expectation of privacy is a common standard in video laws. If you are in a place without a reasonable expectation of privacy you have to keep your underwear on, blouse buttoned, etc. or risk the consequences. Some states are stricter, but we've had cases involving upskirt shots in malls that were not illegal because the girl did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a mall.
 
2012-07-04 11:19:45 AM
Is there an associated app that uploads the audio/video in real time to a remote secure server so when the doctors remove the damaged and mem wiped phone from your ass where you accidentally sat on it while reaching for your gun that smells like the inside of a ziplock bag while assaulting the officer(s) making the stop... your family will be able to collect your life insurance?

Cause that one would also be handy.
 
2012-07-04 11:20:33 AM

6655321: LEOs will, during the routine patdown of a person, confiscate any cellphone as department policy. This is being done to protect the officers' safety. Then add a charge of recording a public official in the performance of their duties.

Feel safe, citizen?


They'll also rape you, then go back in time to prevent you from going to school on the day they teach the importance of using citations when making substantial claims.
 
2012-07-04 11:24:01 AM

Weaver95: ZAZ: Weaver95

The decision limiting Illinois' law was based primarily on freedom of the press. Under the circumstances audiovisual recording was the most effective way to report on matters of public concern. Recording a police officer pulling you over, or beating you up, is of lesser public concern than recording a protest march.

I have not seen a wave of invalidations on constitutional grounds. In Massachusetts and Illinois state courts have said you do not have a right to defensive recording. In Massachusetts it's OK if the officer has actual or constructive knowledge of the recording (not merely lack of privacy). In Illinois you must stop recording if he tells you to stop.

the courts seem to be leaning on the whole 'reasonable expectation of privacy' standard. i'm not a lawyer but near as I can figure, the way the courts are ruling is along the lines of 'if the cops can spy on people in public...then the public can spy on the cops when they're out in the open as well'.


From the looks of it, ZAZ is, so I'll take his advice.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-04 11:31:41 AM
I'm not a lawyer but I've read about the subject. I drive and I'd like to be able to record police. A Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court decision c. 2001 said secretly recording police during a traffic stop was a felony, notwithstanding Rodney King and lack of privacy and all that. The defendant in that case fit a profile (musician, long hair, Porsche) and was sick of being harassed. He went to the police station with a recording to make a complaint. The cops responded with felony wiretapping charges. Abington, Mass., if you want to know what town to avoid.
 
2012-07-04 11:31:56 AM

Sully11: If you get stopped by the police so frequently that you need an app, you're doing it wrong. And by it, I mean life.


You sound white.
 
2012-07-04 11:32:06 AM

Weaver95: jakomo002: Weaver95: a LOT of those laws are being ruled unconstitutional. the cops don't have a 'reasonable expectation of privacy' when they're out in public. Neither do average citizens either for that matter, so the courts have been leveling the playing field as far as that goes.

I doubt that most of these recorded police encounters would get into a trial.

I'm thinking that Youtube is a far more powerful and effective social forum to expose police corruption.

I honestly don't think that most cops would have problem with being recorded while they're out in public and in uniform. Oh some of the authoritarian dickholes won't like it very much...but they can piss off about it. lets face it - most police work is kinda boring and unexciting: traffic stops, directions, 'show the flag' kinda stuff. actual abuses are, in most cases, fairly rare. that said, when cops DO get abusive then REALLY get abusive....so any check on that sort of thing we can come up with is ok by me.


It's exactly the ones that do things that prompt people to record them that are the ones that will object to the recording.
 
2012-07-04 11:32:53 AM
If they're not doing anything wrong, they should have nothing to fear.

A cop objecting to being recorded is practically an admission of guilt.
 
2012-07-04 11:36:48 AM
FTFA: "The app lets users record audio and video discretely with a stealth mode that hides the fact that the recording is happening."

I'm betting the app gets more use by people wanting to covertly record sexual encounters than people wanting to record police arrests.
 
2012-07-04 11:37:31 AM
Is it wrong that I want to get this really cool free app just so I can use it to illegally record encounters that have nothing to do with the police?

I mean, I'm a middle-class white guy, so it's not like I have any use for its intended purpose. I couldn't get stop-and-frisked if I tucked a bazooka into my bike shorts.
 
2012-07-04 11:37:56 AM
Sadly, in practical terms, you really have no 'rights' on the street. If the cops decide to hassle you/arrest/beat you for something they don't like, but is legal, what are you going to do about it? Fight back? Sure, the charges might be thrown out after you've spent the night/weekend in jail, but the goal of punishing you has been achieved. Constitutional rights/freedoms, etc are for courts. In real life you do what the authorities allow you to do...
 
2012-07-04 11:38:11 AM
Been a police officer for 19 years. I couldn't care less if you want to record me on a traffic stop; I've nothing to hide.
 
2012-07-04 11:39:36 AM

Carth: FTFA: "The app lets users record audio and video discretely with a stealth mode that hides the fact that the recording is happening."

I'm betting the app gets more use by people wanting to covertly record sexual encounters than people wanting to record police arrests.


Jumping Christ on a pogo stick....

I am completely embarrassed that I didn't think of that. Unbelievable. Sigh...

I seriously am getting old/slow. :(
 
2012-07-04 11:39:58 AM

Carth: I'm betting the app gets more use by people wanting to covertly record sexual encounters than people wanting to record police arrests.


Exactly. See, this guy gets me. This app solves half the problem of covertly recording my sexual encounters. Now for the tricky part: having sexual encounters.
 
2012-07-04 11:41:21 AM

ZAZ: Fark It

It was invalidated as applied to people openly recording police dealing with protestors. I did not interpret the decision to apply to secret recording of personal encounters.


police are public servants not private parties.
 
2012-07-04 11:42:16 AM

semiotix: Is it wrong that I want to get this really cool free app just so I can use it to illegally record encounters that have nothing to do with the police?

I mean, I'm a middle-class white guy, so it's not like I have any use for its intended purpose. I couldn't get stop-and-frisked if I tucked a bazooka into my bike shorts.


I know a few girls who would stop and frisk you if you really have a bazooka in your bike shorts.
 
2012-07-04 11:42:42 AM

semiotix: Carth: I'm betting the app gets more use by people wanting to covertly record sexual encounters than people wanting to record police arrests.

Exactly. See, this guy gets me. This app solves half the problem of covertly recording my sexual encounters. Now for the tricky part: having sexual encounters.


Don't worry about that; girls find it a turn-on when you spend the entire conversation awkwardly holding up your cell phone towards them.
 
2012-07-04 11:42:53 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I wonder if this would apply to dashboard cams for civilian vehicles. We live in an area filled with jackass drivers who think it is amusing to cut you off and slam on the brakes. I've been contemplating getting one installed.


I think that's why they're so popular in Russia
 
2012-07-04 11:43:14 AM
Why would you want to secretly record a police encounter? Isn't the entire point of recording the encounter to insure that the police don't misbehave? Everybody should always openly record any police encounter they are a part of, and it would be helpful if bystanders also recorded. Don't give them a single second of privacy on the job.
 
2012-07-04 11:46:31 AM
Am I the only one who finds it amusing that the link site keeps nagging for my facebook login user/pass (which I deleted a couple of years ago) to view the content. how about an aclu app for that?
 
2012-07-04 11:46:41 AM
I'm just going to put a sign on my car.

"If you choose to interact with any inhabitant of this vehicle you consent to audio/video recording of the interaction, consent cannot be waived once an interaction is initiated"
 
2012-07-04 11:46:53 AM

CokeBear: If they're not doing anything wrong, they should have nothing to fear.

A cop objecting to being recorded is practically an admission of guilt.


You'd think most police would welcome people recording their actions in public. Get hit with a excessive force complaint and not only do you have your dash cam that might not show all the action when you were out of view, but you'll also have all the cell phone recordings to show that you only tased the guy after he pulled a knife and not just for shiats and giggles.
 
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