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(Discover)   Bad Astronomy's more detailed explanation of the Higgs-Boson announcement   (blogs.discovermagazine.com) divider line 150
    More: Followup, higgs particles, Discover Magazine, Bad Astronomy, Standard Model, Sean Carroll, new physics, particle physics, electron volts  
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17142 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2012 at 10:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-04 09:18:52 AM
Thank you The Bad Astronomer for once again explaining things for those of us that chose to spend our school years soaking brain cells in ethanol.

*burp*
 
2012-07-04 10:32:33 AM
freethoughtblogs.com

//Pre-emptive
 
2012-07-04 10:36:01 AM

alwaysjaded: Thank you The Bad Astronomer for once again explaining things for those of us that chose to spend our school years soaking brain cells in ethanol.


Stephen Hawking did the same thing as an undergrad.
 
2012-07-04 10:36:42 AM
dnrtfa yet but does this mean all our money now shifts to finding out how gravity works? Seems like its gravity's turn.
 
2012-07-04 10:36:45 AM
Except for that weird bump in the middle of the decay graph, it's almost exactly not unlike the Higgs boson.
 
2012-07-04 10:37:36 AM
Well.. whata ya kno....I prefer Higgs fermions instead.

Would that make it the Devil particle?
 
2012-07-04 10:39:34 AM
Came for the "still no cure for cancer", leaving disappointed but self gratified.

/Only reads the magazines for the articles.
 
2012-07-04 10:40:51 AM

WhyteRaven74: alwaysjaded: Thank you The Bad Astronomer for once again explaining things for those of us that chose to spend our school years soaking brain cells in ethanol.

Stephen Hawking did the same thing as an undergrad.


And look at what happened to him.

/ I'll show myself out
 
2012-07-04 10:40:57 AM
Watching the video of the ATLAS conference, I'm struck by the overwhelming presence of caucasians and orientals. I saw a smattering of south-asians, but the lack of diversity was striking.

Now that we've found the Higgs boson, perhaps we can focus some of our energy into solving the education gap.
 
2012-07-04 10:41:44 AM
I have one question.

What can we do with this information?

Can we tamper with the Higgs field? Modification of mass would be a nifty trick, and would provide a means of ignoring the speed limit.
 
2012-07-04 10:42:37 AM
So can anyone explain if there is any practical use to this? I get they theorized it existed a long time ago and they're really happy they think they found it.

But what do I get out of it? Greater understanding of physics and the universe is good and all but if this is the sort of thing that will be lectured and quickly forgotten in physics 101 courses around the world, I feel kinda meh. Now if we can look forward to interstellar space travel or jet packs or something, then I can get some enthusiasm worked up.
 
2012-07-04 10:42:44 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Now that we've found the Higgs boson, perhaps we can focus some of our energy into solving the education gap.


To be fair, CERN is in Europe, so we should expect Europeans to be overrepresented.
 
2012-07-04 10:43:49 AM

PawisBetlog: dnrtfa yet but does this mean all our money now shifts to finding out how gravity works? Seems like its gravity's turn.


Actually we're already working on it, with a couple very large machines. Just that with these machines it's a matter of sit back and wait, unlike the LHC which is turn it on and see what comes out.
 
2012-07-04 10:45:46 AM

wildcardjack: I have one question.

What can we do with this information?

Can we tamper with the Higgs field? Modification of mass would be a nifty trick, and would provide a means of ignoring the speed limit.


On the contrary, I strongly suspect it drives the last nail in the C coffin.

Bummer, dude...
 
2012-07-04 10:46:00 AM

t3knomanser: To be fair, CERN is in Europe, so we should expect Europeans to be overrepresented.


Actually roughly half of the high energy physicists in the entire world are involved either directly or just one step removed from the LHC.
 
2012-07-04 10:46:22 AM

wildcardjack: What can we do with this information?


We don't know yet. Keep in mind, when Relativity was new, we didn't even know about the existence of the atomic nucleus, so the very idea of things like nuclear reactions weren't even able to be contemplated. But the products of Relativity defined the 20th century more than any other discovery.

Pure research leads practical applications by decades, sometimes longer (Newtonian gravity/mechanics predicted orbital rockets centuries before anybody actually tried).
 
2012-07-04 10:46:33 AM

wildcardjack: Can we tamper with the Higgs field? Modification of mass would be a nifty trick, and would provide a means of ignoring the speed limit.


Nah, you don't wanna do that and just turn into a big ol' ball of fluff. Much like my your mom.
 
2012-07-04 10:47:09 AM
Whie in Amerka we're still debating evolution, treating women like chattel, homeschooling kids to think Jeebus lived with the dinosaurs, think healthcare for all is socialzims, the financial sector can police itself, taxes are too high (they're the lowest in 60 years), and our crumbling infrastructure is Obama's fault.

We couldn't have built the LHC (let alone HSR) because we can't do anything requiring long term planning. The rest of the world is passing us by while the forces of conservative thought rally in their triumphs of willful ignorance.
 
2012-07-04 10:47:23 AM
OOoohh, when can I 3D print my own Higgs bosons and build a private space station with them?
 
2012-07-04 10:48:46 AM

WhyteRaven74: Actually roughly half of the high energy physicists in the entire world are involved either directly or just one step removed from the LHC.


And we still would expect more Europeans to be physically present in Europe. I'm not saying that there isn't a global education gap, but I would argue that this one data point probably isn't a good one to draw a line from.
 
2012-07-04 10:48:54 AM

js34603: So can anyone explain if there is any practical use to this? I get they theorized it existed a long time ago and they're really happy they think they found it.

But what do I get out of it? Greater understanding of physics and the universe is good and all but if this is the sort of thing that will be lectured and quickly forgotten in physics 101 courses around the world, I feel kinda meh. Now if we can look forward to interstellar space travel or jet packs or something, then I can get some enthusiasm worked up.


I gather that the importance is, that so much science depended on this very hard-to-find thing being real, that now having proof provides confidence to invest in new research that might otherwise have seemed too iffy.
 
2012-07-04 10:51:14 AM

Void_Beavis: Came for the "still no cure for cancer", leaving disappointed but self gratified.

/Only reads the magazines for the articles.


You have strange (to me) tastes in self-gratification material.

/I usually go to the Foobies page.
 
2012-07-04 10:52:56 AM
So, are we past the "OMFG, this thing will destroy the universe" stage now?
 
2012-07-04 10:53:04 AM
Does this Boson make me look fat?
 
2012-07-04 10:54:11 AM

IXI Jim IXI: So, are we past the "OMFG, this thing will destroy the universe" stage now?


hehehe I hope so
 
2012-07-04 10:54:37 AM

MAYORBOB: Does this Boson make me look fat?


Technically, yes.
 
2012-07-04 10:55:40 AM
Thanks Phil
Now wheres our light sabres or warp engines?
 
2012-07-04 11:00:31 AM
FTA: This particle is very hard to detect, because it doesn't live long. Once it forms it decays in a burst of energy and other particles (think of them as shrapnel) extremely rapidly. The only way to make them is to smash other particles together at incredibly high energies, and look at the resulting collisions.

I'm confused by this passage , I'm not sure how to interpret it. If the Higgs can only survive for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, does this mean the mass of electrons, etc is continually being refreshed with these coming into and out of existence the whole time, like virtual particles? I would have thought it existed as long as the electron did.

As that just seems stupid, I'm interpreting the passage above as referring to the Higgs as it can be seen by the LHC, rather than how they exist naturally, but as it's talking about the particle being 'formed' (as if the LHC collision creates it) as opposed to it how it is possible to observe it) I'm a bit puzzled.

Can one of you clear this up for me please?
 
2012-07-04 11:01:56 AM
And not one mention of Cobain or Nirvana.

fark.com, I am disappoint....

(and please don't make me post lyrics)
 
2012-07-04 11:03:36 AM

lohphat: Whie in Amerka we're still debating evolution, treating women like chattel, homeschooling kids to think Jeebus lived with the dinosaurs, think healthcare for all is socialzims, the financial sector can police itself, taxes are too high (they're the lowest in 60 years), and our crumbling infrastructure is Obama's fault.

We couldn't have built the LHC (let alone HSR) because we can't do anything requiring long term planning. The rest of the world is passing us by while the forces of conservative thought rally in their triumphs of willful ignorance.


Gosh, you're an uninformed, small-minded person, full of prejudice and afraid of those who don't think like you.

And therefore you naturally think you are better than them.

That's strange because I thought liberals were tolerant of others' views.

If you want to see what a backward thinking, provencial hick looks like go find a mirror.
 
2012-07-04 11:05:43 AM
i256.photobucket.com

Awesome porn name.
 
2012-07-04 11:06:42 AM
So? We're all just as farked as we were yesterday. Let me know when they figure out how to fix climate change and global economic collapse.
 
2012-07-04 11:09:19 AM

wildcardjack: I have one question.

What can we do with this information?

Can we tamper with the Higgs field? Modification of mass would be a nifty trick, and would provide a means of ignoring the speed limit.


Have a seat over there.

images.wikia.com
 
2012-07-04 11:09:21 AM

skodabunny: FTA: This particle is very hard to detect, because it doesn't live long. Once it forms it decays in a burst of energy and other particles (think of them as shrapnel) extremely rapidly. The only way to make them is to smash other particles together at incredibly high energies, and look at the resulting collisions.

I'm confused by this passage , I'm not sure how to interpret it. If the Higgs can only survive for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, does this mean the mass of electrons, etc is continually being refreshed with these coming into and out of existence the whole time, like virtual particles?

Can one of you clear this up for me please?


It's as if all the other particles are in a ship, and the ship needs to have the energy to move through space and time, or _all_ of them will die. There's only one particle that can provide this energy: the Higgs-Boson. It realizes this, but doesn't tell them. It simply up, and goes to it's business. It executes the needed mechanics to provide the energy, then, other particles realize what's done, and they use that energy to escape, I mean move.

However, the Higgs-Boson is now, basically, dead. It will not share in the journey all the other particles will make.

They're still trying to locate this other particle that has a last conversation with the Higgs-Boson just before it completely dies.

About all they found of _it_ so far is a small, whimpering, "no...."
 
2012-07-04 11:10:26 AM
shouldn't this be a plug tag if Phil submitted it himself

/i'm giving him a hard time
 
2012-07-04 11:11:09 AM
The Bad Astronomer is a spotlight seeking asshole. Met him at SXSW. Total douchebag.
 
2012-07-04 11:11:32 AM

lohphat: Whie in Amerka we're still debating evolution, treating women like chattel, homeschooling kids to think Jeebus lived with the dinosaurs, think healthcare for all is socialzims, the financial sector can police itself, taxes are too high (they're the lowest in 60 years), and our crumbling infrastructure is Obama's fault.

We couldn't have built the LHC (let alone HSR) because we can't do anything requiring long term planning. The rest of the world is passing us by while the forces of conservative thought rally in their triumphs of willful ignorance.


Hell of a post for July 4, dude. What are you, stealth Canadian?

""The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then." -Thomas Jefferson
 
2012-07-04 11:12:35 AM

fatkiddown: skodabunny: FTA: This particle is very hard to detect, because it doesn't live long. Once it forms it decays in a burst of energy and other particles (think of them as shrapnel) extremely rapidly. The only way to make them is to smash other particles together at incredibly high energies, and look at the resulting collisions.

I'm confused by this passage , I'm not sure how to interpret it. If the Higgs can only survive for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, does this mean the mass of electrons, etc is continually being refreshed with these coming into and out of existence the whole time, like virtual particles?

Can one of you clear this up for me please?

It's as if all the other particles are in a ship, and the ship needs to have the energy to move through space and time, or _all_ of them will die. There's only one particle that can provide this energy: the Higgs-Boson. It realizes this, but doesn't tell them. It simply up, and goes to it's business. It executes the needed mechanics to provide the energy, then, other particles realize what's done, and they use that energy to escape, I mean move.

However, the Higgs-Boson is now, basically, dead. It will not share in the journey all the other particles will make.

They're still trying to locate this other particle that has a last conversation with the Higgs-Boson just before it completely dies.

About all they found of _it_ so far is a small, whimpering, "no...."


Anyone else?
 
2012-07-04 11:13:28 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: OOoohh, when can I 3D print my own Higgs bosons and build a private space station with them?


shut the fark up

just cause it's not working on making you into an immortal douche doesn't mean it needs to be pissed on
 
2012-07-04 11:13:28 AM
It's time that you realize that we already have the capability to tantilize or tease this particle and are already able to control mass within an atom. Now when you see something and a minute later it dissapeared, you will know what has happened. A item as heavy as a car can be lifted up with one finger. Also we will be able to control time as well as mass, so you may be here in the present at one moment and the next thing you know a dinasour will be chasing you up a tree for it's next meal....good luck with your new science.
 
2012-07-04 11:16:41 AM

apachevoyeur: The Bad Astronomer is a spotlight seeking asshole. Met him at SXSW. Total douchebag.


but you're not a spotlight seeking asshole for posting this, are you?
 
2012-07-04 11:17:04 AM

foo monkey: So? We're all just as farked as we were yesterday. Let me know when they figure out how to fix climate change and global economic collapse.


"Bah! Electric magnets be damned! What good are they to me when the very stock market itself is crashing to earth?"
~foomonkey, circa 1873
 
2012-07-04 11:20:03 AM

Madbassist1: apachevoyeur: The Bad Astronomer is a spotlight seeking asshole. Met him at SXSW. Total douchebag.

but you're not a spotlight seeking asshole for posting this, are you?


Spotlight? On Fark? Get real. Now for what I was promoting at SXSW, maybe a little. But yeah, Phil is a total attention whore and all around not very nice guy.
 
2012-07-04 11:20:11 AM

skodabunny: I'm confused by this passage , I'm not sure how to interpret it. If the Higgs can only survive for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, does this mean the mass of electrons, etc is continually being refreshed with these coming into and out of existence the whole time, like virtual particles?


Quantum mechanics gets weird about the idea of "existence". It's not exactly like virtual particles, but it's the same idea. Let's use a different example- we have a photon. At one end, we have an electron jumping down an energy state to emit the photon. At the other end, we have an electron absorbing the photon and jumping up an energy state.

In between those two points, does the photon exist? With QM, it boils down to, "It depends how you describe the system."

You can describe the system, not as photon emission, but as entanglement between two electrons. The photon mediates the interaction, but we don't actually need the photon in the system.

The Higgs is similar. It's a particle that mediates the interaction between massive particles and the Higgs field. If we aren't the particle and we aren't the field, the Higgs basically doesn't exist in any practical sense. But, when we whack massive particles together hard enough, we can actually create a free Higgs particle. But Higgs particles, like BDSM enthusiasts, don't want to be free. So the Higgs particle rapidly decays into a tell-tale signature that we can look for.
 
2012-07-04 11:24:39 AM

t3knomanser: skodabunny: I'm confused by this passage , I'm not sure how to interpret it. If the Higgs can only survive for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, does this mean the mass of electrons, etc is continually being refreshed with these coming into and out of existence the whole time, like virtual particles?

Quantum mechanics gets weird about the idea of "existence". It's not exactly like virtual particles, but it's the same idea. Let's use a different example- we have a photon. At one end, we have an electron jumping down an energy state to emit the photon. At the other end, we have an electron absorbing the photon and jumping up an energy state.

In between those two points, does the photon exist? With QM, it boils down to, "It depends how you describe the system."

You can describe the system, not as photon emission, but as entanglement between two electrons. The photon mediates the interaction, but we don't actually need the photon in the system.

The Higgs is similar. It's a particle that mediates the interaction between massive particles and the Higgs field. If we aren't the particle and we aren't the field, the Higgs basically doesn't exist in any practical sense. But, when we whack massive particles together hard enough, we can actually create a free Higgs particle. But Higgs particles, like BDSM enthusiasts, don't want to be free. So the Higgs particle rapidly decays into a tell-tale signature that we can look for.


Okay, that's more like it! Much obliged to you :)
 
2012-07-04 11:25:31 AM

Valiente:
Hell of a post for July 4, dude. What are you, stealth Canadian?


What's to celebrate today? The grand marketing of the Great Lie that we are a free people? Tell that to gay people who are denied access to existing civil law contracts and benefits while others rally in that withholding of basic equality and liberty.

We've replaced the aristocracy of intergenerational noble birth with the aristocracy of intergenerational wealth. We are still ruled by the top 1% who have theirs and to hell with everyone else.
 
2012-07-04 11:29:08 AM

skodabunny: If the Higgs can only survive for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second, does this mean the mass of electrons, etc is continually being refreshed with these coming into and out of existence the whole time, like virtual particles? I would have thought it existed as long as the electron did.


Electrons, protons and neutrons are nice and stable, they hang around a long long long time. As for seeing the Higgs, or well seeing the remnants of it, the thing has to do with having it out alone. It's like the W and Z particles that get their mass from the Higgs. They're around all the time, inside every proton and neutron. Thing is in order to actually observe them, or rather their decay products, you need to smash together stuff with a lot of energy in order to produce a W and or a Z. And it's in seeing such particles in isolation that we can determine things like their mass and other properties. Which in turns helps clarify theoretical understanding of their regular day to day behavior.
 
2012-07-04 11:30:30 AM

skodabunny:

Anyone else?


ffs
 
2012-07-04 11:36:22 AM

fatkiddown: skodabunny:

Anyone else?

ffs


Yeah, your metaphor was rubbish. But, yeah, thanks a lot for responding with it, I guess.

Thanks Whyte Raven also. No more answers please!
 
2012-07-04 11:40:01 AM

skodabunny:
Yeah, your metaphor was rubbish. But, yeah, thanks a lot for responding with it, I guess.

Thanks Whyte Raven also. No more answers please!


You don't get much do you? It's far bigger for you than the higgs-boson (don't get me wrong, I don't get it either -- but I _do_ get humor).

Here, I'll slow it down further. "ffs" in my last post was a hyperlink. Here it is again but with the link visible:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+does+the+higgs+boson+work


take your time....
 
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