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(AZCentral)   Phoenix lands pro soccer franchise. Sheriff Joe Arpaio expected to volunteer to provide professional security at all games, scanning stands for potential troublemakers   (azcentral.com) divider line 34
    More: Strange, United Soccer Leagues, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, USL Second Division, soccer, BDR Sports  
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808 clicks; posted to Sports » on 04 Jul 2012 at 11:29 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-04 11:37:47 AM
Phoenix Firebirds?

OH I WAS KIDDING!!!
 
2012-07-04 12:07:00 PM
When the Sounders joined MLS, I really thought that the bulk (maybe not the majority) of fans would be Hispanic. That's turned out not to be the case, although there are certainly alot of hispanic fans of the team.

Discuss.
 
2012-07-04 12:07:01 PM
All the world's top players will want to sign with this team to prepare them for the playing conditions in Qatar 2022.
 
2012-07-04 12:42:34 PM
Dear Subby,

I like it when my sports tab is not mistaken for the politics tab.

Sincerely,

Stoli

/awaiting my Welcome to Fark moment...
 
2012-07-04 12:44:00 PM
Soccer beneath MLS is a wild, chaotic, swirling mess. That they got a team is one thing, but so have a bunch of cities. They haven't all survived down there. We'll see how they shake out.
 
2012-07-04 12:48:28 PM
My dad took me to a few Phoenix Inferno games in the early 80's when I was a wee lad.


/lame story bro
 
2012-07-04 12:59:49 PM

Cornelius Dribble: All the world's top players will want to sign with this team to prepare them for the playing conditions in Qatar 2022.


Seriously, f*ck Qatar.

I wanted USA 2022. It would have been perfect.
 
2012-07-04 01:03:47 PM

Gosling: Soccer beneath MLS is a wild, chaotic, swirling mess. That they got a team is one thing, but so have a bunch of cities. They haven't all survived down there. We'll see how they shake out.


I think the USSF needs to get in line with the rest of the world and make their leagues merit-based. If it needs Canada to fill out the lower leagues, then make it so. The US has the bottom of the barrel wrong. The excitement isn't who's gonna get the #1 draft pick for next year; that's boring. The excitement should be which team is even gonna be in the top pro league next year.
 
2012-07-04 01:31:00 PM
This competes with the Diamondbacks for the entertainment dollar. Is Goldwater going to file frivolous lawsuits to get this kicked out of the city too?
 
2012-07-04 01:44:48 PM

IlGreven: I think the USSF needs to get in line with the rest of the world and make their leagues merit-based. If it needs Canada to fill out the lower leagues, then make it so. The US has the bottom of the barrel wrong. The excitement isn't who's gonna get the #1 draft pick for next year; that's boring. The excitement should be which team is even gonna be in the top pro league next year.


The infrastructure isn't there yet. For promotion/relegation to be feasible, you need enough teams below MLS to be able to become viable MLS teams, as-is. And I'm not seeing that yet. You've got a lot of shiny new teams, many founded just in 2010, with little to no proof of viability built up.

MLS raided just about all the viable-as-is franchises underneath them, and another one- Orlando City- was created to basically invoke the same end. The lower tiers need to replenish and stabilize before you can make it work.

When it does become a thing- and I'd want to see that 20th club be added first- I'd want to see some infrastructure requirements built in. Minimum capacities and such.
 
2012-07-04 02:23:48 PM

Gosling: IlGreven: I think the USSF needs to get in line with the rest of the world and make their leagues merit-based. If it needs Canada to fill out the lower leagues, then make it so. The US has the bottom of the barrel wrong. The excitement isn't who's gonna get the #1 draft pick for next year; that's boring. The excitement should be which team is even gonna be in the top pro league next year.

The infrastructure isn't there yet. For promotion/relegation to be feasible, you need enough teams below MLS to be able to become viable MLS teams, as-is. And I'm not seeing that yet. You've got a lot of shiny new teams, many founded just in 2010, with little to no proof of viability built up.

MLS raided just about all the viable-as-is franchises underneath them, and another one- Orlando City- was created to basically invoke the same end. The lower tiers need to replenish and stabilize before you can make it work.

When it does become a thing- and I'd want to see that 20th club be added first- I'd want to see some infrastructure requirements built in. Minimum capacities and such.


The fact that this discussion is even taking place makes me totally stoked.
 
2012-07-04 02:31:17 PM
awesome!
 
2012-07-04 02:34:16 PM

yelmrog: Gosling: IlGreven: I think the USSF needs to get in line with the rest of the world and make their leagues merit-based. If it needs Canada to fill out the lower leagues, then make it so. The US has the bottom of the barrel wrong. The excitement isn't who's gonna get the #1 draft pick for next year; that's boring. The excitement should be which team is even gonna be in the top pro league next year.

The infrastructure isn't there yet. For promotion/relegation to be feasible, you need enough teams below MLS to be able to become viable MLS teams, as-is. And I'm not seeing that yet. You've got a lot of shiny new teams, many founded just in 2010, with little to no proof of viability built up.

MLS raided just about all the viable-as-is franchises underneath them, and another one- Orlando City- was created to basically invoke the same end. The lower tiers need to replenish and stabilize before you can make it work.

When it does become a thing- and I'd want to see that 20th club be added first- I'd want to see some infrastructure requirements built in. Minimum capacities and such.

The fact that this discussion is even taking place makes me totally stoked.



Don't get your hopes up. If a team has the minimum infrastructure requirements then they'll just join MLS. Plus, it's not just infrastructure. The gap in ownership $$$ needed between MLS and minor league soccer is huge. It's not just the $60 Million expansion fee that the league now requires, the league also demands regular cash calls of the ownership. No investor is going to pony up that type of cash (which doesn't even include the building/maintenance of a stadium and other facilities) just to have to see their team play second division (translated to "minor league" for the average American) ball. The financial problems with pro-rel aren't worth the benefits of having fans feel more "european".

You'll see a 30 team league with NFL-style geographic divisions long before you'll ever see a two 15 team pro-rel leagues.
 
2012-07-04 03:29:02 PM
" If a team has the minimum infrastructure requirements then they'll just join MLS. Plus, it's not just infrastructure."


nope. Speaking as a fan of one of the teams that could have met the requirements and still got the middle finger from MLS, MLS wants major markets only.

/rochester rhinos for the win.
 
2012-07-04 04:07:49 PM

cnhn: " If a team has the minimum infrastructure requirements then they'll just join MLS. Plus, it's not just infrastructure."


nope. Speaking as a fan of one of the teams that could have met the requirements and still got the middle finger from MLS, MLS wants major markets only.

/rochester rhinos for the win.


64.13.248.103 The Flint Tropics know this all too well.
 
2012-07-04 04:41:46 PM

Longtime Lurker: which doesn't even include the building/maintenance of a stadium and other facilities


ts3.mm.bing.net

I'm sure they could work out a schedule with the current occupants
/don't see it getting full though
//maybe a little expensive on the rent side, too
 
2012-07-04 05:52:28 PM
If Phoenix wants a whiff of MLS, their only hope is relocation. I could see Chivas or a struggling team moving to the Valley.

I still can't believe MLS is pushing for NY2. I'd love to see the Cosmos reactivated, but Red Bull can't sell out.
 
2012-07-04 05:54:14 PM
Also: If Glendale loses the coyotes, I could see them making a big play to try and bring an MLS team in.
 
2012-07-04 06:50:22 PM

MattyFridays: Also: If Glendale loses the coyotes, I could see them making a big play to try and bring an MLS team in.


Unless they plan on turning jobbing.com into an outdoor venue, it won't offset the loss.
 
2012-07-04 06:58:22 PM
I would be interested in seeing how the economics of several pro leagues compare to eachother to see how they are profitable...

The ones I am thinking of:

NFL
MLB
NBA
NHL
MLS
CFL
AHL

Granted the CFL is Canadian only, and AHL is a farm league, but I'd be interested in seeing what the average team gets for

gate revenue
tv deal
average ticket price
average attendance
merchandise
stadium mortgage/rental costs
player salary

In my mind MLS should be on par with the CFL but a $60 million expansion fee seems outlandish to me. Does MLS actually have a good enough tv deal to make that economic? Are tickets reflective of justifying that expense?

Just asking questions.
 
2012-07-04 07:44:10 PM
Cute headline.

But where I work, Mexicans turn down free tickets to a Real Salt Lake team that tied Monterrey in La Sultana Del Norte but they will buy their own plane tickets and fly to Texas or California to watch El Tri.
 
2012-07-04 07:53:28 PM

MattyFridays: If Phoenix wants a whiff of MLS, their only hope is relocation. I could see Chivas or a struggling team moving to the Valley.

I still can't believe MLS is pushing for NY2. I'd love to see the Cosmos reactivated, but Red Bull can't sell out.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-04 08:13:06 PM

MattyFridays: Also: If Glendale loses the coyotes, I could see them making a big play to try and bring an MLS team in.


What I would do (if I could do whatever the fark I wanted) is redevelop the state fairgrounds and Coliseum (for non-Phoenix area farkers, just northeast of where the I-10 and I-17 intersect, used to be where the Suns and IHL Roadrunners played) to either be a 25,000 seat retractable dome soccer stadium or a 17,000 hockey arena and tell Glendale to fark themselves for farking things up so badly.

/Just move the Coyotes to the arena in downtown Phoenix for 2-3 years while building the new place.
 
2012-07-04 09:50:28 PM

MattyFridays: If Phoenix wants a whiff of MLS, their only hope is relocation. I could see Chivas or a struggling team moving to the Valley.

I still can't believe MLS is pushing for NY2. I'd love to see the Cosmos reactivated, but Red Bull can't sell out.


It's like the old joke, "A town too small to support 1 lawyer can undoubtedly support 2 of them."

Cosmos - Red Bull clasicos would generate big bucks. London has 8 teams, Mexico City has 3. Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro used to have their own leagues.

I see Chivas USA moving to Riverside or San Bernardino once the economy picks up. Except for the once-a-year Nascar race, Las Chivas Gringas del Imperio Interior would be the only game in town.
 
2012-07-04 09:53:07 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: In my mind MLS should be on par with the CFL but a $60 million expansion fee seems outlandish to me. Does MLS actually have a good enough tv deal to make that economic? Are tickets reflective of justifying that expense?


No. It is outlandish for a league that is generally not making anyone a whole lot of money (but a lot of rich guys are having a lot of fun with).

The $60m is there as a deterrent. MLS is just about 3 years removed from deathwatch status. Expansion since RSL has generally been better than anticipated. But, outside of NY2, which the league wants to see happen, they'd just as soon not go over 20 for at least five years. They don't want to get even further away from promoting domestic talent. And the domestic talent pool just isn't that strong. Even on the best teams, there's barely a full XI of fairly good players.

The $60m is saying "look, we totally haven't closed the door if Zygi Wilf or whoever wants to wave a whole bunch of cash". But, they aren't actively looking either until they're more solid overall, DC and San Jose have better parks, and possibly Chivas have figure something out.
 
2012-07-04 10:19:23 PM

cnhn: " If a team has the minimum infrastructure requirements then they'll just join MLS. Plus, it's not just infrastructure."


nope. Speaking as a fan of one of the teams that could have met the requirements and still got the middle finger from MLS, MLS wants major markets only.

/rochester rhinos for the win.


Your stadium had trailers for dressing rooms and your ownership group doesn't have enough money to afford MLS. Shame because I like the Rhinos, but they need the backing of a billionaire first.
 
2012-07-04 11:38:30 PM
Just in time, b/c the Suns traded Steve Nash to the Lakers.
 
2012-07-04 11:55:36 PM

Anonymocoso:

Cosmos - Red Bull clasicos would generate big bucks. London has 8 teams, Mexico City has 3. Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro used to have their own leagues.

I see Chivas USA moving to Riverside or San Bernardino once the economy picks up. Except for the once-a-year Nascar race, Las Chivas Gringas del Imperio Interior would be the only game in town.


Red Bull can't even sell out for derbies against Philly/NE/DC, what makes you think clasicos against Cosmos would fair any better?

The absolute kiss of death for this would be NY2 getting activated and NOT having Cosmos branding. One of the main reasons Red Bull sucks so much is shiatty marketing. Nobody wants to be FC Energy Drink.

Union is having a hard enough time with their shirt sponsor.
 
2012-07-05 12:39:19 AM

Anonymocoso: MattyFridays: If Phoenix wants a whiff of MLS, their only hope is relocation. I could see Chivas or a struggling team moving to the Valley.

I still can't believe MLS is pushing for NY2. I'd love to see the Cosmos reactivated, but Red Bull can't sell out.

It's like the old joke, "A town too small to support 1 lawyer can undoubtedly support 2 of them."

Cosmos - Red Bull clasicos would generate big bucks. London has 8 teams, Mexico City has 3. Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro used to have their own leagues.

I see Chivas USA moving to Riverside or San Bernardino once the economy picks up. Except for the once-a-year Nascar race, Las Chivas Gringas del Imperio Interior would be the only game in town.


I read somewhere that Chivas was actively looking to move to Santa Ana in Orange County. I say put an MLS team in San Diego or Phoenix and cap it at the FIFA-mandated 20 teams, then make the NASL and USL more stable.
 
2012-07-05 03:28:11 AM

MattyFridays: One of the main reasons Red Bull sucks so much is shiatty marketing. Nobody wants to be FC Energy Drink.


Yeah, but then, Red Bull doesn't quite get that. They have teams in Austria, Germany and Brazil with Red Bull branding too.

*Austria, they just ganked a team out from under its preexisting fanbase, dumped all the team history to make Red Bull Salzburg, and the fans went off and made a phoenix club that has proceeded to stampede up the Austrian pyramid. The jilted fans should be getting their revenge on Red Bull any season now.
*German rules prevent naming the club Red Bull. So when Red Bull grabbed some tiny club in a big market that had no really successful club- Leipzig- they made a name that abbreviated to RB. They also made sure they took the club in Leipzig that was least likely to give them the Salzburg treatment. This involved getting a club with so few fans in such a shiatty situation that they just shrugged their shoulders and went 'well, hey, if they get us some wins, we'll make it work'.
*Brazil, they straight-up created a club and named it Red Bull. Brazilian soccer does not work that way. They're mired in the Sao Paulo local leagues and have no real prospect of ever making anything of themselves.

In the US, they can get away with being a sponsor club, because sponsors go on everything in these parts and it's not like they can get relegated or have all sorts of angry 'Metrostars' fans to deal with. They just have to settle for being a crappy club nobody is all that keen to go see.

It's funny. Red Bull is normally ridiculously awesome when it comes to sports. They just can't get soccer right.
 
2012-07-05 10:39:55 AM
Just when you thought the MLS was the worst soccer you could ever watch..
 
2012-07-05 11:27:19 AM

MFAWG: When the Sounders joined MLS, I really thought that the bulk (maybe not the majority) of fans would be Hispanic. That's turned out not to be the case, although there are certainly alot of hispanic fans of the team.

Discuss.


Alot is not a word.
 
2012-07-05 12:11:32 PM

MattyFridays:

Union is having a hard enough time with their shirt sponsor.


What lady wouldn't want this across her chest???
cdn1.sbnation.com
 
2012-07-05 12:17:28 PM

Dopgang: MattyFridays:

Union is having a hard enough time with their shirt sponsor.

What lady wouldn't want this across her chest???
[cdn1.sbnation.com image 450x300]


Yeah, my wife. She was so freaking happy when I found her an non-sponsored jersey from 2010. I did the same for my daughter.

The BIMBO issue is mainly a branding fail on the bakery, NOT the Union. Yes, I understand Bimbo doesn't mean anything in Mexico. IT DOES HERE. It's like the whole Chevy Nova urban legend.

Bimbo makes great products that are freaking delicious, but it's just a tremendous marketing fail on their part.
 
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