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(Sun Sentinel)   Lifeguard fired for saving drowning man's life   (sun-sentinel.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, Hallandale Beach, medical privacy, physical exams  
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17444 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2012 at 2:51 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-04 04:04:09 AM  

DrPainMD: Kevin72: That's your future, America. Ghost of Christmas Future. Privatization. Outsourcing. Corporatization. Profits over people. I hope this alarms you the way Scrooge got alarmed on seeing his future.

Hmmm... let's look at the factors involved here:

1) Liability laws: blame falls on the government.
2) The decision to outsource: blame falls on the government.
2) The contract under which the lifeguard company was operating: blame falls on the government.

But, yeah, let's blame the private sector.


We have to blame the private sector, because of the conservative wet dream of a private company in charge instead of the government. Fortunately, the man didn't drown. But of he did, I suppose it would have been the government's fault for outsourcing it to a private company. The important thing is that the man who didn't follow corporate dogma is fired and therefore can't get unemployment or a good reference.
 
2012-07-04 04:04:46 AM  
 
2012-07-04 04:04:51 AM  

Tumunga: Being named Lopez, I bet it's real hard for him to fight the urge to jump in the water, let alone being paid the big bucks to pull people out of it.

/got nothing.


Wait. I'm trying to understand this racist joke. I thought it was black people who didn't swim? Can someone explain?
 
2012-07-04 04:07:15 AM  
Just leave them a message here, and let them know how you feel.
https://www.facebook.com/ellisandassociates
 
2012-07-04 04:08:49 AM  

DrPainMD: FTA: "Hallandale Beach began outsourcing its lifeguards in 2003 as a money-saving measure. The city pays the company about $334,000 annually to provide four lifeguards and one supervisor at the beach year-round..."

At $8.25 per hour, the four lifeguards (assuming 40-hour weeks) cost $68,640 per year. That leaves $265,360 for the supervisor and administrative/overhead costs. Somehow, I don't think that they're saving money on the deal. I do, however, believe that a relative of someone on the city council owns the lifeguard company.


Assuming no lifeguards are on duty in the middle of the night, the company likely needs around 15 full-time employees to provide the sort of coverage that the city wants.

5 posts
2 shifts per day
7 days per week
= 70 shifts

The city is getting a reasonably good deal.
 
2012-07-04 04:12:24 AM  

I sound fat: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: WorldCitizen: Hallandale Beach began outsourcing its lifeguards in 2003 as a money-saving measure. The city pays the company about $334,000 annually to provide four lifeguards and one supervisor at the beach year-round, said Dobens. The company also provides lifeguard services at the city's pools as part of the contract.

I hope they put in a lot of additional lifeguards and time at the city's pools. Otherwise, between the 5 staff members that would be $66,800 each per year, and the lifeguards are getting paid $8,25 per hour...

Huh...
Let's assume the lifeguards work 80 hours per week (and get double pay for overtime, because management is so generous)
8.25 x 4 x 40 = $1320 per week & 8.25 x 4 x 40 x 2 = $2640, combined that equals $3960 per week. Since the coverage is year round, multiplying that by 52 is 205,920 dollars. Let's also assume that training and auditing costs equal 1000 per week, which brings the total cost up to 257,920. Add in insurance premiums (let's say forty thousand, just because that's a large number) and the total rises to 297,920 dollars. Which means that the supervisor is getting paid 36,080 dollars (which assumes the company operating this is non-profit, but that point is refuted by the article - I choose to ignore it for the sake of simplicity)

Even with those MASSIVELY inflated estimations, the 334K seems unreasonably high.

um....

4 lifegaurds, I would assume there is more than 1 shift per day, and they dont work 7 days a week. thats more than 4 people, folks.


The company gets paid for 4 life guards and a manager. Let's assume that the manager is another life guards who does paperwork on the side. This would give us 5 people to fill out the shifts. The internet tells me the following:

Lifeguards are on duty 365 days of the year as follows:
9:15am - 4:45 pm October 1 - March 31
10:00am - 5:30 pm April 1 - September 30

So 4 people a time filling out an 8 hour shift with the fifth person having a day off. 4*8*365*8.25= 96,360

That would leave US$240,000 for "various" costs. Even if the manager person were to earn more, or the shifts are arranged differently, we'd still have over US$200,000 to account for.
5*8*365*8.25 = 120,450 giving is US$210,000 for various costs.

OT:

By the logic displayed by the company they could be sued for not rescuing someone if the lifeguard was busy rescuing someone else within his stretch of beach at that time.
 
2012-07-04 04:12:29 AM  

Sullyville: Tumunga: Being named Lopez, I bet it's real hard for him to fight the urge to jump in the water, let alone being paid the big bucks to pull people out of it.

/got nothing.

Wait. I'm trying to understand this racist joke. I thought it was black people who didn't swim? Can someone explain?


Swimming across the Rio Grande to get into Texas. Yes I know it's Miami, but you know..... to racists, all them Lopezes are interchangeable.
 
2012-07-04 04:25:43 AM  

DrPainMD: I sound fat: DrPainMD: Kevin72: That's your future, America. Ghost of Christmas Future. Privatization. Outsourcing. Corporatization. Profits over people. I hope this alarms you the way Scrooge got alarmed on seeing his future.

Hmmm... let's look at the factors involved here:

1) Liability laws: blame falls on the government.
2) The decision to outsource: blame falls on the government.
2) The contract under which the lifeguard company was operating: blame falls on the government.

But, yeah, let's blame the private sector.

Dude, no offense, but in this case, a private company made a decision to reward a hero with a pink slip. that is not the government.

your #2 point does have merit.

See point #1: liability laws.


Liability laws are irrelevant because as the company said they had enough life guards to cover the designated area while the lifeguard was away assisting in the incident. The company has alternatives to firing an employees that was entirely there decision. Even if he broke the rules the company is the one that decides whether to blindly follow no tolerance or allow employees some level of discretion. In any business that is involved in save and protecting human life it is irresponsible of a company to cause doubt in their employee's mind, "Will I be fired for saving this person?" Should never be a possible thought that crosses their mind. Period. There is no excuse for it.

The person that should really be fired is whoever handed the lifeguard a pink slip, because if you are in a management position you have two potential options:
1. Fire an employee who assisted in a drowning incident and deal with negative publicity it causes.
or
2. Give a minor reprimand to an employee who assisted in a drowning incident and left their station (but it was covered while he was away so the company and swimmers should have had no liability/risk on their ends) and benefit from positive publicity of having employees that go above and beyond what they are required to do.

And you choose option number 1, you have no business managing anything, in particular anything that involves human life.

Also liability laws originated as a result of both private and public sector groups neglecting what should be a common sense responsibility of protecting life and general over all safety of workers, consumers, and any possible collateral damage whether human or property. It just has been abused by lawyers and people that it should be protecting.


Bottom line it is not a matter of Public vs Private. It is a matter of people a few people ruining everything for the majority of people. If people were not dicks in general this would not be an issue.
 
2012-07-04 04:26:48 AM  
$334,000 a year is $915 a day. We don't know how many non-oceanic swimming pools they staff, but 3 ocean staffers x $8.25 x 8 hours $198 a day.
 
2012-07-04 04:35:03 AM  
Welcome to America, where no good deed goes unpunished.
 
2012-07-04 04:35:59 AM  
www.blotto.net
 
2012-07-04 04:36:09 AM  

Frederick: "It was the moral thing to do," Lopez said. "I would never pick a job over my morals."

He's ruled out a lot of professions; politician, banker, CEO...


Rules out lawyer and management positions at Ellis and Associates too.
 
2012-07-04 04:54:53 AM  
People hide behind rules so they don't have to think or otherwise behave like HUMAN BEINGS.
 
2012-07-04 05:02:17 AM  
Fark Me To Tears

WTF? So if someone is drowning in the water past an artificial boundary line, you're just supposed to let him drown? Who came up with this nonsense? Ron Paul?

No. LAWYERS did.
 
2012-07-04 05:06:12 AM  
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

Peetie the Don't Sue People Panda DISAPPROVES
 
2012-07-04 05:18:24 AM  

sporkme: RULES ARE RULES
[www.actwon.com image 468x96]
NOT MY BEACH
FARK YOU, DROWN
These are the principles that have made us who we are.

I would never hire a company like this one, or fire an employee like that one.

$8.50 an hour? Seriously? What an asshole of a company.

Boycott all Ellis beaches -- only drown at non-Ellis beaches!


lol at "Aquatic Safety & Risk Management"! Yeah, I bet you are farked with them no matter what you do.
 
2012-07-04 05:18:24 AM  
Their facebook page seems to be gone
 
2012-07-04 05:40:51 AM  

eekmale: Their facebook page seems to be gone


Yeah, was trying to see some of these negative comments left behind before the dude in charge erased them (as per Javacrucian's comment), but it looks like they took the 'nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure' approach.
 
2012-07-04 05:41:25 AM  
This company could have surfed the high and bodaciously good wave of positive publicity by praising this guy instead of firing him (and later quietly billing the government of the "not in our zone" area for the save). Instead, they've become yet another example of why certain government services should definitely not be run like a business.
 
2012-07-04 05:42:57 AM  
Dick move Ellis and Associates, dick move.
 
2012-07-04 05:43:58 AM  

yadumey: eekmale: Their facebook page seems to be gone

Yeah, was trying to see some of these negative comments left behind before the dude in charge erased them (as per Javacrucian's comment), but it looks like they took the 'nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure' approach. And I find that funny as all farking hell.


Added that for me.

WordyGrrl: This company could have surfed the high and bodaciously good wave of positive publicity by praising this guy instead of firing him (and later quietly billing the government of the "not in our zone" area for the save). Instead, they've become yet another example of why certain government services should definitely not be run like a business.


Also, this.
 
2012-07-04 05:54:40 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Pools don't have the buoyancy that ocean water does. It's an easier job to save people from drowning in the ocean than it is at a pool.


Um, FAIL. Pools are also not as deep or large, have better visibility, don't have seaweed to wrap around your legs, and don't have currents (especially rip currents) to swim in while dragging a struggling drowner. So... no. Pools are not easier to lifeguard.
 
2012-07-04 06:02:53 AM  

DrPainMD: 2) The decision to outsource: blame falls on the government.


Lol... wait. So are you arguing that the government SHOULDN'T trust private industry to do things?
The government does something that conservatives would ostensibly like -- outsourcing to an "efficient" private company for lifeguarding -- and when they take to typical private sector douchebaggery you blame the government for outsourcing in the first place?? LMAO

Well guys, I guess the private sector can't be trusted to do a good job -- you get what you pay for.
Time to roll out the government services!
 
2012-07-04 06:12:16 AM  

hb0mb: By the time Lopez arrived, several witnesses had pulled the unidentified man out of the water. Lopez said the man appeared semi-conscious and had water in his lungs.

Lopez said he and a off-duty nurse attended to the man until the city's paramedics arrived.


It doesn't sound like the life guard made any difference in rescuing this guy.


You'd make a shiatty lifeguard.
 
2012-07-04 07:17:40 AM  
i could easily get paid to watch someone drown
where can i sign up for this amazing CAREER?
 
2012-07-04 07:19:06 AM  
Anybody see the 'Flag bikinis' in the accompanying article? My favorite was #9!
 
2012-07-04 07:19:26 AM  

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Lopez said he was sitting at his post at about 1:45 p.m. Monday when someone rushed to his stand asking for help. Lopez said he noticed a man struggling in the water south of his post. The man was previously swimming in an "unprotected" stretch of the beach, city officials confirmed Tuesday.

"It was a long run, but someone needed my help. I wasn't going to say no," he said.

Company officials said the rescue took place about 1,500 feet south of the company's protective boundaries. The unprotected area has signs alerting beachgoers to swim at their own risk.

By the time Lopez arrived, several witnesses had pulled the unidentified man out of the water. Lopez said the man appeared semi-conscious and had water in his lungs.

Lopez said he and a off-duty nurse attended to the man until the city's paramedics arrived.

WTF? So if someone is drowning in the water past an artificial boundary line, you're just supposed to let him drown? Who came up with this nonsense? Ron Paul?


The free market. This is what happens when governments outsource important functions like this.
 
2012-07-04 07:24:39 AM  
Wow... I have found so much wrong with this....

FTA:
1) Lopez stepped out of the beach zone his company is paid to patrol
So let me get this right, it is outside of your zone? So let the man die because you weren't paid to cover the area SLIGHTLY down the beach. Going politics here, yes... let's privatize more things in this country. They will do the right thing.
2) The job pays $8.25 an hour, the lifeguards said.
To put your life on the line and to save other people's lives? WTF is this shiat?
3) Hallandale Beach began outsourcing its lifeguards in 2003 as a money-saving measure. The city pays the company about $334,000 annually to provide four lifeguards and one supervisor at the beach year-round, said Dobens. The company also provides lifeguard services at the city's pools as part of the contract.
$334,000??? OMFG for 4 full-time lifeguards and a supervisor? Quick math here. Let's say the lifeguards earned $10 and the super $15. That is 114,400, if they are working year round, 40 hours each. They city has one municipal pool. Half the year it is only open 6 hours, and the other half it is open 8 hours for 5 days and 6 the other 2. With the way they pay their lifeguards that can't cost more than $50,000. So were are talking 164 grand for lifeguard salary. Way to save money Hallandale Beach.

/I could be totally wrong
 
2012-07-04 07:30:25 AM  

Kevin72: $334,000 a year is $915 a day. We don't know how many non-oceanic swimming pools they staff, but 3 ocean staffers x $8.25 x 8 hours $198 a day.


According to the City's website they have ONE municipal pool.
 
2012-07-04 07:31:14 AM  

DerAppie: .The company gets paid for 4 life guards and a manager. Let's assume that the manager is another life guards who does paperwork on the side. This would give us 5 people to fill out the shifts. The internet tells me the following:

Lifeguards are on duty 365 days of the year as follows:
9:15am - 4:45 pm October 1 - March 31
10:00am - 5:30 pm April 1 - September 30

So 4 people a time filling out an 8 hour shift with the fifth person having a day off. 4*8*365*8.25= 96,360

That would leave US$240,000 for "various" costs. Even if the manager person were to earn more, or the shifts are arranged differently, we'd still have over US$200,000 to account for.
5*8*365*8.25 = 120,450 giving is US$210,000 for various costs.

OT:

By the logic displayed by the company they could be sued for not rescuing someone if the lifeguard was busy rescuing someone else within his stretch of beach at that time...


about $200K for insurance premiums seems about right...
/is there an Ellis and Associates Insurance Company
 
2012-07-04 07:43:36 AM  
"They didn't tell me in a bad way. It was more like they were sorry, but rules are rules," Lopez said.

"That's policy" is always the last refuge of the cowardly bureaucrat. When you ask them why that's policy, you'll get no answer.
 
2012-07-04 07:47:52 AM  
Was it this guy?

encrypted-tbn3.google.com

(Hotlinked, for your Baywatch pleasure)
 
2012-07-04 07:49:40 AM  
Was it Hitler? Because then I would understand
 
2012-07-04 08:06:16 AM  

DrPainMD: 1) Liability laws: blame falls on the government.
2) The decision to outsource: blame falls on the government.
2) The contract under which the lifeguard company was operating: blame falls on the government.

But, yeah, let's blame the private sector.


So to sum up, Kevin72 says "privitazation is bad," and your response is, "yeah, but the government chose to privatize, therefore government is bad." Hmmmm.

That's some fine logic there, Lou.
 
2012-07-04 08:16:59 AM  
The people who decided to fire the lifeguard should be fired. Clearly, they think the right thing to do is for lifeguards to watch people drown
 
2012-07-04 08:17:55 AM  
ad­m­i­n­is­trat­o­r[nospam-﹫-backwards]sill­ej*com

/bring the noise
 
2012-07-04 08:20:43 AM  
The guy may have started to drowned in the "designated" area but due to him drowning and all floated out of said "designated" area. What happens then life guard "lets go save him boy's, oh opp's he is now face down outside of our area bad luck.
 
2012-07-04 08:25:23 AM  

Kevin72: Sullyville: Tumunga: Being named Lopez, I bet it's real hard for him to fight the urge to jump in the water, let alone being paid the big bucks to pull people out of it.

/got nothing.

Wait. I'm trying to understand this racist joke. I thought it was black people who didn't swim? Can someone explain?

Swimming across the Rio Grande to get into Texas. Yes I know it's Miami, but you know..... to racists, all them Lopezes are interchangeable.



I thought it was swimming from Cuba? This is Miami and all.
 
2012-07-04 08:28:07 AM  
This is a perfect example of why industries that are called on to save and protect lives should never ever be privatized.
 
2012-07-04 08:30:49 AM  

Anenu: This is a perfect example of why industries that are called on to save and protect lives should never ever be privatized.


QFT
 
2012-07-04 08:34:54 AM  

Waldo Pepper: [i682.photobucket.com image 457x640]">

makes me wonder how much she made per hour


$20 for a handy, $60 for everything
 
2012-07-04 08:47:52 AM  
Let's hope this story goes viral so that this company can learn a valuable lesson right before they lose their contract.
 
2012-07-04 08:48:24 AM  
What a stupid company! They should have thanked the employee for the great press, then sent a huge bill to the idiot for services rendered during the rescue. Start posting signs in the swim at your own risk areas that any rescue services provided will be billed to swimmers and I bet you'll see people think twice.
 
2012-07-04 08:52:16 AM  

cbcs: Just leave them a message here, and let them know how you feel.
https://www.facebook.com/ellisandassociates


Looks like they took down their FB page. I try to go there and it redirects to my logged in FB main page.
 
2012-07-04 09:26:27 AM  

violentsalvation:
Have you stolen the chair you think I sit in?


I know it's your chair because I found your dentures lost in the cushion.

We are talking about the fundamentals of liberty. The liberty to own another person and to remove their ability to make decisions at least while you are pay them (or if they are incarcerated). Yes, that "lifeguard" should be in jail.
 
2012-07-04 09:43:50 AM  

Gawdzila: AverageAmericanGuy: Pools don't have the buoyancy that ocean water does. It's an easier job to save people from drowning in the ocean than it is at a pool.

Um, FAIL. Pools are also not as deep or large, have better visibility, don't have seaweed to wrap around your legs, and don't have currents (especially rip currents) to swim in while dragging a struggling drowner. So... no. Pools are not easier to lifeguard.


It's ok little buddy, i think it was a joke.
 
2012-07-04 09:52:30 AM  
Yep, their Facebook page is gone. Their website's contact page is still up though. Maybe I'll give them a call.
 
2012-07-04 09:56:55 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: violentsalvation: slayer199: I can see the company's point-of-view (I don't agree) but if someone on their "protected" stretch of beach were to drown, they'd be held liable despite the fact the other lifeguards were watching their stretch of the beach. They may also be held liable if the lifeguard didn't save the guy.

However, common sense should overrule the company's decision to fire him. A human life is worth more than "the rules" or a fighting a potential lawsuit. Commend and suspend perhaps, but not outright firing the guy.

What a farked up society we live in where common sense is overruled by legal concerns.

I claim this post as my own.

When you work for someone else that person owns you. If you step out of line, they should have the right to fire you, because you are doing only the job that they say you are paid to do -no other job under any conditions. So if you are an armed security guard and you see a child getting raped and murdered across the street -you have to ask your boss before calling 911 -because your time is your boss's time.


So much this.

Or, you know, if you're the Asst. Football coach for a major university, and see a kid getting raped, it's just not your job to intervene.

/such bullshiat in this world
 
2012-07-04 10:05:48 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Damn. $8.25 an hour!?!? That is insane.

~
~
Pretty sure the Aussies invented surf lifesaving[?] and it has always been volunteer work in Australia. Things might have changed since I quit years ago, but at that time in my club [Cottesloe SLC] there was ONE paid surf lifesaver. He was called the Ranger and was employed by the local government council. He had similar powers to the council dog catcher.

Funny.... when you say damn only $8.25. I'm thinking something completely different.
 
2012-07-04 10:06:49 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: hb0mb: By the time Lopez arrived, several witnesses had pulled the unidentified man out of the water. Lopez said the man appeared semi-conscious and had water in his lungs.

Lopez said he and a off-duty nurse attended to the man until the city's paramedics arrived.


It doesn't sound like the life guard made any difference in rescuing this guy.

So he should have ignored the fact that there was a possibly dying man because, hey, somebody else is probably going to deal with it?

I wonder what Kitty Genovese would have thought of an attitude like that.


No, my point is that everyone is saying that this lifeguard somehow made a difference in rescuing the guy when in fact all the heavy lifting was already done when he got there. I don't think the lifeguard should have been fired for going to someone's aid. But in this case it sounds like he didn't make much of a difference, which to me makes him getting fired even worse.
 
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