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(Some Guy)   Gene Wilder knew exactly what he was talking about   (bookfaked.com) divider line 139
    More: Cool, Gene Wilder, Somerset, Willy Wonka  
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22582 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Jul 2012 at 3:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-03 10:52:25 PM
No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.
 
2012-07-03 11:03:14 PM
 
2012-07-03 11:30:34 PM

mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.


Agreed. You run a risk when you remake a brilliant classic that you will fall short compared to the original. Johnny Depp is an exceptional performer but the remake was subpar compared to the original.
 
2012-07-03 11:40:08 PM

mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.


And I will never forgive them for what they did to Alice in Wonderland.
 
2012-07-03 11:43:09 PM

Ambivalence: mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.

Agreed. You run a risk when you remake a brilliant classic that you will fall short compared to the original. Johnny Depp is an exceptional performer but the remake was subpar compared to the original.


I have to disagree. Don't get me wrong, the Wilder version is the better movie, but the Depp version was closer to the book. It's like comparing "Blade Runner" to "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Both are good, but they aren't the same.
 
2012-07-03 11:54:28 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.

And I will never forgive them for what they did to Alice in Wonderland.


I actually liked Alice in Wonderland. It worked as a "sequel" of the original story.
 
2012-07-03 11:59:19 PM

FloydA: Ambivalence: mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.

Agreed. You run a risk when you remake a brilliant classic that you will fall short compared to the original. Johnny Depp is an exceptional performer but the remake was subpar compared to the original.

I have to disagree. Don't get me wrong, the Wilder version is the better movie, but the Depp version was closer to the book. It's like comparing "Blade Runner" to "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Both are good, but they aren't the same.


I would disagree that the Burton movie was even good. The CGI alone was enough to turn anyone off. Then you add the stupid subplot about his father being a dentist...ridiculous and unnecessary. Yes, it was closer to the book but the movie itself just wasn't done well. The problem with the remake in general is that, as Ambivalence said, it didn't need to be made. Remakes & reboots are good when the original was awful or a franchise has so completely gone off the rails, it needs to be retold from scratch (think Alien, Superman, Batman, Highlander). Willy Wonka was superbly done, even if it strayed from the book.
 
2012-07-04 12:38:16 AM
Getting away from the Burton discussion, I'm really impressed by how Wilder phrased his criticisms. What a classy guy.
 
2012-07-04 01:06:50 AM
Very classy letter, and fun link Subby.
 
2012-07-04 01:40:42 AM

mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.


This. Depp has played some great characters, but Wilder nailed Wonka. This movie is as good now as it was when it was made. Certain movies just shouldn't be touched. This was one of them.
 
2012-07-04 02:38:08 AM
We're not sure, are we black?
 
2012-07-04 03:18:57 AM
Trivia: They hired John August specifically because he'd never seen the Gene Wilder film. They required that he did not see it until his script was finished.

Once he saw the Gene Wilder film, he said he was shocked by how dark it was.

Obviously, he was not well acquainted with Roald Dahl.

/Candy is Dandy
//But Liquor is Quicker
 
2012-07-04 03:57:26 AM

brigid_fitch: Willy Wonka was superbly done, even if it strayed from the book.


It strayed to the point Dahl hated it with a passion.
 
2012-07-04 04:07:51 AM
These were pretty good.

theimaginaryworld.com

//my lawn, get off.
 
2012-07-04 04:13:40 AM
Remarkable eye for detail.
 
2012-07-04 04:13:46 AM
Wilder is definitely one of the most unique personalities and supremely talented actors in the history of show business. The only modern actor I can think of that can come close to pulling off the divinely insane characters that Wilder managed so well is Sam Rockwell

Ken VeryBigLiar: brigid_fitch: Willy Wonka was superbly done, even if it strayed from the book.

It strayed to the point Dahl hated it with a passion.


Which is fine. Great books don't necessarily make great screenplays.
 
2012-07-04 04:20:14 AM
i.imgur.com

Not a bad version of Veruca Salt.
 
2012-07-04 04:21:27 AM
i1107.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-04 04:21:52 AM
"Being close to the book" does not really matter. The point is to tell a story, and the original Willy Wonka did that swimmingly.

It also doesn't matter that the author hated the movie adaptation. King hated Kubrick's The Shining... and he was wrong.
 
2012-07-04 04:23:23 AM

Ken VeryBigLiar: brigid_fitch: Willy Wonka was superbly done, even if it strayed from the book.

It strayed to the point Dahl hated it with a passion.


Dahl wished he could write as good as that movie. It took his ideas and made them much better. The remake was actively bad and a pile of crap.
 
2012-07-04 04:23:38 AM
I wonder how many actors today have this kind of input, or can be bothered to think about their character?

I think this is the best thing Gene Wilder has done.
 
2012-07-04 04:36:21 AM

theurge14: [i.imgur.com image 380x436]

Not a bad version of Veruca Salt.


I saw them open for P.J. Harvey who was opening for that band "Live" that nobody remembers anymore, and i have to say that they were a pretty boring dyke-rock band,
 
2012-07-04 04:37:23 AM
awesome quote: "To match the shoes with the jacket is fey. To match the shoes with the hat is taste."
 
2012-07-04 04:40:16 AM

Forty-Two: Getting away from the Burton discussion, I'm really impressed by how Wilder phrased his criticisms. What a classy guy.


To match the shoes with the jacket is fey. To match the shoes with the hat is taste.

I need to find a way to incorporate this into my daily routine.
 
2012-07-04 04:42:39 AM

Neeek: Ken VeryBigLiar: brigid_fitch: Willy Wonka was superbly done, even if it strayed from the book.

It strayed to the point Dahl hated it with a passion.

Dahl wished he could write as good as that movie.


If Dahl had his way, the movie would have ended with Grandpa Joe shouting "yippie" after learning that Charlie would be getting the factory. Director Mel Stuart called in screenwriter David Seltzer who had been doing uncredited rewrites for the movie (the literary quotes, which Dahl denounced as "pretentious", were his contribution). He pleaded "I can't end my movie with 'yippie', I need something better." So David Seltzer improvised the "don't forget what happened to the man who got everything he ever wanted" dialogue on the spot. I'm guessing Dahl didn't like that either.
 
2012-07-04 04:47:44 AM

FloydA: It's like comparing "Blade Runner" to "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Both are good, but they aren't the same.


I disagree. The book was a steaming pile of dog crap.
 
2012-07-04 04:55:33 AM

mikemoto: No offense to Johnny Depp and Tim Burton (who I both like), but this movie did NOT need to be remade.


Yes it did. Saw the original when it came out: it was too trippy weird for us kids and it just plain sucks as an adult.

Gene Wilder's creepy Wonka luring in children with candy...
 
2012-07-04 04:55:49 AM

gunga galunga: So David Seltzer improvised the "don't forget what happened to the man who got everything he ever wanted" dialogue on the spot. I'm guessing Dahl didn't like that either.


Who knows, but it's much more in keeping with Dahl's worldview.

I love the original movie, but it's more than a bit of a mess. It was made -believe it or not- by the Quaker Oats company, for reasons I still don't completely fathom.

Roald Dahl was actually a respected screenwriter at the time the film was made; he's written the script for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and the Man with the Golden Gun, and done rewrites on a number of other films.
 
2012-07-04 04:57:16 AM
I want to see the horror version of it.

Seriously though, the boat ride scared the shiat out of me as a kid...
 
2012-07-04 05:00:10 AM

brigid_fitch: I would disagree that the Burton movie was even good. The CGI alone was enough to turn anyone off. Then you add the stupid subplot about his father being a dentist...ridiculous and unnecessary. Yes, it was closer to the book but the movie itself just wasn't done well. The problem with the remake in general is that, as Ambivalence said, it didn't need to be made. Remakes & reboots are good when the original was awful or a franchise has so completely gone off the rails, it needs to be retold from scratch (think Alien, Superman, Batman, Highlander). Willy Wonka was superbly done, even if it strayed from the book.


Roald Dahl forbade that Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator be made into a movie when he saw Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

Imagine what would have happened to the remake had he been alive to see it.. There probably wouldn't have been a fire big enough for him.
 
2012-07-04 05:04:08 AM
My Willie Wonka does'nt like all chocolate factories.
 
2012-07-04 05:08:01 AM
Slime green trousers are icky. But sand colored trousers are just as unobtrusive for your camera, but tasteful.

So this is the only good shot of the pants I could find

asecretforest.typepad.com

Since 2/3rds of TFA talked about the costume they could have included some pictures.
 
2012-07-04 05:15:21 AM
The only children's movie creeper than Wonka is "Popeye" with Robin Williams. I cried.
 
2012-07-04 05:19:47 AM

SoothinglyDeranged: awesome quote: "To match the shoes with the jacket is fey. To match the shoes with the hat is taste."


Indeed. Words to live by. Or at least dress by.
 
2012-07-04 05:25:01 AM
i.dailymail.co.uk

Favorite quote from the original movie: "It's hot and creamy. I can actually feel it running down my throat!"
 
2012-07-04 05:29:37 AM
I didn't mind the remake. It's unfortunate it had to overwrite Gene Wilder who is always pure win, but the rest of the characters benefited from it, except maybe the grandfather, as well the environment. A piece of shiat, even with a shining diamond in it, is still a piece of shiat.

I'd much rather see good production value over poorly / obviously hand painted dwarfs and similarly dated and unconvincing dated wooden acting and dated shabby environment. IE the land often looked like a cobbled together movie set, and the character's like bad actors, rather than what they were intended to be. Aside from Gene Wilder's performance it's got B movie written all over it, in a cringeworthy bad way.

If I wanted to play pretend, I'd read the actual book. If I wanted to watch a play on the stage for it's specific allure, I would do that. I am, however, watching a movie, and would much prefer to not have to play pretend to fill in the woeful shortcomings of the production value. That's charming in a play and not what a play is about, but simply disturbing in a movie.

Stanley Kubrick, for example, did a glorious thing. He died before making the pet project, A.I., into a reality because he couldn't do the work to the standards he desired, with the materials / technology at hand. That is what movie making is about, doing the whole concept as much of a service as possible, even if that means waiting until technology or even society catches up(IE Nolan's Batman / Joker combo, and similarly, other Frank Miller works).

There is plenty of reason for remaking many many a movie from decades ago, Spiderman origin story, not so much.
 
2012-07-04 05:30:17 AM

Forty-Two: Getting away from the Burton discussion, I'm really impressed by how Wilder phrased his criticisms. What a classy guy.


That was my thing. None of this read as "demands". I knew about the fake pratfall, but the site presents the letter as Wilder being some kind of jerk. Nothing says that at all. He didn't want to wear green pants, so what? I don't either. He took the designer's work into consideration and presented his ideas more as a dialogue. He wanted to talk about it and be involved.
 
2012-07-04 05:30:22 AM

Dwight_Yeast: gunga galunga: So David Seltzer improvised the "don't forget what happened to the man who got everything he ever wanted" dialogue on the spot. I'm guessing Dahl didn't like that either.

Who knows, but it's much more in keeping with Dahl's worldview.

I love the original movie, but it's more than a bit of a mess. It was made -believe it or not- by the Quaker Oats company, for reasons I still don't completely fathom.


They wanted to break into the candy business. So the financed this movie to showcase their new line of chocolate bar.....which had a fatal design flaw in that they melted way too quickly.
 
2012-07-04 05:32:45 AM

enzoweb: I wonder how many actors today have this kind of input, or can be bothered to think about their character?

I think this is the best thing Gene Wilder has done.


HIS NAME IS FRANKENSTEIN.
 
2012-07-04 05:37:56 AM

Asa Phelps: theurge14: [i.imgur.com image 380x436]

Not a bad version of Veruca Salt.

I saw them open for P.J. Harvey who was opening for that band "Live" that nobody remembers anymore, and i have to say that they were a pretty boring dyke-rock band,


"Lightning Crashes", that band? I remember them. The fatal flaw there was picking such a terrible name. They only did two good albums and as a teenager even I was saying they were a little too morose for me. No pop songs is one thing but it seemed like they were fighting popularity. They got so confused Dave Matthews swept in, did half the work, got twice the crowd.
 
2012-07-04 05:41:41 AM

OgreMagi: FloydA: It's like comparing "Blade Runner" to "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Both are good, but they aren't the same.

I disagree. The book was a steaming pile of dog crap.


You just don't understand paranoia. And I'll prove it to you as long as you keep looking at the screen.
 
2012-07-04 05:44:23 AM

omeganuepsilon: I didn't mind the remake. It's unfortunate it had to overwrite Gene Wilder who is always pure win, but the rest of the characters benefited from it, except maybe the grandfather, as well the environment.


I dunno, maybe it's because I've seen David Kelly naked, but I'll have to argue that he turned in an arresting performance in the remake.
 
2012-07-04 06:02:21 AM

Doctor Jan Itor: The only children's movie creeper than Wonka is "Popeye" with Robin Williams. I cried.


That movie is fantastically insane. I love it just for that.
 
2012-07-04 06:07:54 AM

Shadowtag: omeganuepsilon: I didn't mind the remake. It's unfortunate it had to overwrite Gene Wilder who is always pure win, but the rest of the characters benefited from it, except maybe the grandfather, as well the environment.

I dunno, maybe it's because I've seen David Kelly naked, but I'll have to argue that he turned in an arresting performance in the remake.


I said maybe, because I haven't seen either really recently. I do remember Albertson, however, atleast being convincing(mostly), in the original. Not so much a distracting ham fisted characicature as the kind of acting meant for the stage, but decent film acting(stellar compared to some bits of the day). It was not meant to be a comment on Kelly.

/also sleep deprived
//stupid allergies, I rattle when I lie down
///just about exhausted enough to pass out anyhow
 
2012-07-04 06:27:16 AM

Shadowtag: Asa Phelps: theurge14: [i.imgur.com image 380x436]

Not a bad version of Veruca Salt.

I saw them open for P.J. Harvey who was opening for that band "Live" that nobody remembers anymore, and i have to say that they were a pretty boring dyke-rock band,

"Lightning Crashes", that band? I remember them. The fatal flaw there was picking such a terrible name. They only did two good albums and as a teenager even I was saying they were a little too morose for me. No pop songs is one thing but it seemed like they were fighting popularity. They got so confused Dave Matthews swept in, did half the work, got twice the crowd.


Pain on the Riverside had an excellent bass line.
 
2012-07-04 06:36:32 AM

Shadowtag: Asa Phelps: theurge14: [i.imgur.com image 380x436]

Not a bad version of Veruca Salt.

I saw them open for P.J. Harvey who was opening for that band "Live" that nobody remembers anymore, and i have to say that they were a pretty boring dyke-rock band,

"Lightning Crashes", that band? I remember them. The fatal flaw there was picking such a terrible name. They only did two good albums and as a teenager even I was saying they were a little too morose for me. No pop songs is one thing but it seemed like they were fighting popularity. They got so confused Dave Matthews swept in, did half the work, got twice the crowd.


I have 'Throwing Copper' in my cd player right now.
 
2012-07-04 07:14:02 AM

Dr. Mojo PhD: Forty-Two: Getting away from the Burton discussion, I'm really impressed by how Wilder phrased his criticisms. What a classy guy.

To match the shoes with the jacket is fey. To match the shoes with the hat is taste.

I need to find a way to incorporate this into my daily routine.


Yeah, this quote just oozes class. Who'da thought from Gene Wilder?
 
2012-07-04 07:36:00 AM
Wilder is pure class. What a great way to critize without coming across as a complete ass. They guy must have been a pleasure to work with.
 
2012-07-04 08:12:30 AM
His genius was hinted at earlier, when he had the smarts to marry Gilda Radner.

/bawls
 
2012-07-04 08:14:15 AM

AngryDragon: Yeah, this quote just oozes class. Who'da thought from Gene Wilder?


It shouldn't be surprising, I guess as Wilder made it big working for Mel Brooks, who has a reputation for being an extremely nice guy.
 
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