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(Talking Points Memo)   Obamacare has an impact on many things: It allows insurance coverage of pre-existing conditions, keeps children on their parents' insurance plans until they're 26, lowers the drinking age, extends coveraWAIT...what?   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 71
    More: Strange, obamacare, coveraWAIT, Roberts Court, pre-existing condition, drinking ages, majority opinion, Alcohol law, No Child Left Behind  
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7488 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jul 2012 at 6:31 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-03 08:56:38 PM  
Even in high school, while actively drinking illegally, I was perfectly ok with the law being 21. 18 means you could still be in high school means you could be buying handles of vodka for freshmen. Its already pretty easy to drink illegally, but it doesn't need to be THAT easy.

Though I'd be in favor of making a distinction for 18 yr olds drinking in establishments.
 
2012-07-03 08:59:02 PM  

dlac: Even in high school, while actively drinking illegally, I was perfectly ok with the law being 21. 18 means you could still be in high school means you could be buying handles of vodka for freshmen. Its already pretty easy to drink illegally, but it doesn't need to be THAT easy.

Though I'd be in favor of making a distinction for 18 yr olds drinking in establishments.


Would you mind defining "establishment"? The canteen I've built next to the shop where I play poker has grown a bit out of control. I'm just curious if it meets your definition.
 
2012-07-03 08:59:29 PM  
So, 18-21 year-olds are already being mined by the military.

Let's buy a beer for those guys.
 
2012-07-03 09:04:07 PM  

djkutch: So, 18-21 year-olds are already being mined by the military.

Let's buy a beer for those guys.


Here's the problem. They're in Afghanistan, a Muslim country. The locals will get a bit cranky if we start shipping beer over there.

I'd gladly load a C-5 with beer and ship it over. I've actually done such things, but in this case, I'm not sure the powers that be would let me get away with that.
 
2012-07-03 09:35:14 PM  
Didn't read this, but I'm assuming it's based on the ruling about the Medicaid portion and how the government has been holding highway funds hostage for years to ensure the 21 drinking age? But since the Medicaid ruling specifically mentioned "expected revenue" and would only be lost due to changing a law it probably wouldn't apply retro-actively.
 
2012-07-03 10:35:25 PM  
ya know what still doesn't make sense? drinking ages

seriously, why not let kids start drinking at the age of 16? they're going to drink "illegally" regardless

and make 19 the age you can get a driver's license, most kids are dumbass drivers anyways

see, the kids get some experience drinking and learning how to live with it and be responsible, then they get to drive a car when they're more mature

win-win
 
2012-07-03 10:50:59 PM  

ontariolightning: america is an enigma to the rest of the civilized world.. healthcare = too socialist. .. gay marriage will ruin traditional families. Change the drinking age from 21 and every teen will be driving around drunk... America is the perfect example of what listening to reactionist morons on tv will do to a country


It's weird, we just have to assume that Americans think other Americans are all really, really easily influenced. Like nobody paints their baby's rooms green for fear they'll grow up wanting to have sex with Kermit.
 
2012-07-03 10:54:09 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure MADD would be just fine with that


damnisteppedinpoo.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-03 11:25:50 PM  

Mrtraveler01: ontariolightning: america is an enigma to the rest of the civilized world

I don't know why but I read that as an enema.


Sadly, that makes even more sense.
 
2012-07-04 01:58:52 AM  

King Something: Mrtraveler01: ontariolightning: america is an enigma to the rest of the civilized world

I don't know why but I read that as an enema.

Sadly, that makes even more sense.


Naw. It would've made more sense if it said that America is in desperate NEED of an enema.
 
2012-07-04 02:03:11 AM  
They either need to raise the armed forces recruiting age to 21 or lower the drinking, gambling and smoking ages.

If you are old enough to die for your country, and you're old enough to vote for who leads it, you're old enough to drink, smoke and gamble. I don't care which way they do it, but this needs to change.

It's the one post-18 decision that I am making my stepsons adhere to. Once they are 18 and out of school, they are adults and can make adult decisions, but I refuse to support them joining the military until they have all their rights. Also, it gets them past that 'Oh my God, I'm on my own and scared.' phase that makes a large portion of people fall for the bullshiat recruiter lines. Give them a few years of working and paying bills, and any decision to join the military will be made a lot more rationally.
 
2012-07-04 02:15:26 AM  

eurotrader: Any bets? If any state tries it will be Wisconsin. Wisconsin still allows under 21 to drink if active duty military and fought a few extra years even losing some highway money before going to 21. I remember the grandfather clause. Having the drinking age at 21 causes far more problems than it solves.


My money is also on Wisconsin, with New Hampshire and Louisiana close behind
 
2012-07-04 05:15:40 AM  
Just why is it that the federal government can legally deny highway funds to states that don't do what the federal government wants them to do when it comes to things that the Constitution says is a power reserved to the states? How is that not violating the Constitution?
 
2012-07-04 07:27:51 AM  
The premise has always been relatively simple.

If any of the member states wants a chunk of this giant money-pie... adopt certain baseline standards.
If they don't, no money for them.

There is no 'forcing'.
 
2012-07-04 08:22:15 AM  

GAT_00: I was wondering how that part of Roberts' ruling was going to effect things.

I think that his ruling on HCR is going to end up being one of the most pivotal rulings in decades. He really dropped one on us.


i18.photobucket.com

PROBLEM?
 
2012-07-04 08:31:10 AM  

LordJiro: King Something: Mrtraveler01: ontariolightning: america is an enigma to the rest of the civilized world

I don't know why but I read that as an enema.

Sadly, that makes even more sense.

Naw. It would've made more sense if it said that America is in desperate NEED of an enema.


It's going to get one. It's called "the Boomers dying". And America will feel much better afterward.
 
2012-07-04 10:19:39 AM  

mat catastrophe: I still don't understand how, if Federal road money was tied to speed limits in the 70s and 80s, the states could not be now forced to accept Medicaid expansions.


As I understand the Roberts Opinion, the Feds could tie the highway funds with current medicare funds but states would not be compelled to accept an increase. In other words, the current relationships between the Federal Government and the states is set with regards to drinking age, speed limits, medicare funding and if the feds wanted to, say lower the speed limit to 55 or force states to double their medicaid funding with the highway money attached to it, the states could opt out and wouldn't be at risk of losing the highway money.

The Feds already tax gasoline so states should mandate that if the tax be assessed, that the feds now be responsible for fixing of the interstate highways. County and state highways and bridges should be maintained by the states or communities. That would allow a state to set its own drinking age, speed limit or hell, even legalize Marijuana, which I think is also tied to highway funding.

Someone correct me if I'm sinfully wrong. I'm only one coffee deep today..
 
2012-07-04 11:20:54 AM  

ontariolightning: clowncar on fire: 18-21: three years of weening off the tit and being granted the privileges of being an adult. Keep the age at 21 and save the best for last.

18 is legal age to be a government trained killing machine but not responsible enough to drink legally

FAIL

CSB time:
Amusingly the Canadian Navy keeps beer vending machines aboard ship. According to my brother in law this leads to them playing an amusing game with Americans when they dock at an American port where any American ships are docked too. They chat up some off duty Americans navy types who look to be of legal Canadian drinking age, but under the American one and offer them a tour of the ship which always finishes at the mess, where they goggle at the beer vending machine for a minute. After they finish staring with disbelief the Canadians are sure to mention "the legal drinking age in Canada is 18, and the ship technically is Canadian territory, want a beer?" They then proceed to have a beer with the Americans, going so far as to pay for the drinks, or stealthily refilling their beers. By the time they're done the Americans are three sheets to the wind and barely able to walk. They then help them back to their ship, generally into the waiting arms of their shipmates if they're lucky, MPs if they're not.
 
2012-07-04 11:38:28 AM  

o5iiawah: mat catastrophe: I still don't understand how, if Federal road money was tied to speed limits in the 70s and 80s, the states could not be now forced to accept Medicaid expansions.

As I understand the Roberts Opinion, the Feds could tie the highway funds with current medicare funds but states would not be compelled to accept an increase. In other words, the current relationships between the Federal Government and the states is set with regards to drinking age, speed limits, medicare funding and if the feds wanted to, say lower the speed limit to 55 or force states to double their medicaid funding with the highway money attached to it, the states could opt out and wouldn't be at risk of losing the highway money.

The Feds already tax gasoline so states should mandate that if the tax be assessed, that the feds now be responsible for fixing of the interstate highways. County and state highways and bridges should be maintained by the states or communities. That would allow a state to set its own drinking age, speed limit or hell, even legalize Marijuana, which I think is also tied to highway funding.

Someone correct me if I'm sinfully wrong. I'm only one coffee deep today..


The way I read the opinion, a big part of it is the fact that a state would have to give up 10% of their budget if they decided not to implement the Medicaid expansion. They didn't fundamentally change the ruling in South Dakota v. Dole or restrict the federal government from attaching conditions to pre-existing funds. It's just that when you risk this much money in expanding a program into a new kind of program, you can't pull it all. As I said before, there are no federal grants that come anywhere close to the amount of money involved in Medicaid, so it seems unlikely that other programs are at risk...at least until the Court explains what makes some conditions coercive and others not.
 
2012-07-04 11:56:17 AM  
The drinking age is Belgium is 15. Basically, liquor, wine and beer is not even a controlled substance. They don't seem to have any greater problems with drunk driving or alcoholism.

I was raised in Quebec where basically, you teach kids how to drink responsibly. Kids could have a half glass of wine on special occasions. Have a few beers when they were 15-18 years of age when appropriate. I'm not saying Canada/Quebec doesn't have alcohol problems, we certainly do but if you ever go to bars in Montreal, you see 18 year olds drinking and acting more or less responsibly and you see American 18 year old acting like complete idiots. Effectively acting like 15 year old Canadians getting drunk for the first time. I think kids need to learn how to drink responsibly before they become adults.

I have two kids, and the first time they get drunk, I want it to be under my roof.
 
2012-07-04 12:34:28 PM  

mrshowrules: The drinking age is Belgium is 15. Basically, liquor, wine and beer is not even a controlled substance. They don't seem to have any greater problems with drunk driving or alcoholism.

I was raised in Quebec where basically, you teach kids how to drink responsibly. Kids could have a half glass of wine on special occasions. Have a few beers when they were 15-18 years of age when appropriate. I'm not saying Canada/Quebec doesn't have alcohol problems, we certainly do but if you ever go to bars in Montreal, you see 18 year olds drinking and acting more or less responsibly and you see American 18 year old acting like complete idiots. Effectively acting like 15 year old Canadians getting drunk for the first time. I think kids need to learn how to drink responsibly before they become adults.

I have two kids, and the first time they get drunk, I want it to be under my roof.


THIS, though it has been said a million times by any American who went overseas (or North) and experienced the world beyond the bubble for any length of time. But no one listens. MADD + the X YZ Family Associations (fronts for the religious right) are formidable political opponents to reason.
 
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