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(Kaiser Family Foundation)   Before you go yelling about how Obamacare is evil, a tax, will kill grandma, etc, maybe you should take this quiz to see if you even know what's in the bill. Subby got 9/10   (healthreform.kff.org) divider line 740
    More: Interesting, health reform, obamacare  
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9087 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jul 2012 at 6:43 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-03 08:02:11 PM  

qorkfiend: GoldSpider: qorkfiend: praymantis: I still believe a lot if this could have been accomplished with a simplified law.

Such as?

Expand medicare coverage to all Americans.

Done.

Would this have been able to pass Congress? No.


if they axed the filibuster probably.
 
2012-07-03 08:02:29 PM  
I am part of the .4%.
 
2012-07-03 08:02:35 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: 10/10

Though since I work in the healthcare industry (and I've read the bill), it's not too unexpected.


Most Americans now work in Healthcare. Most of us should have done well.

//works in Healthcare
 
2012-07-03 08:02:39 PM  

Ned Stark: Mrtraveler01: qorkfiend: praymantis: I still believe a lot if this could have been accomplished with a simplified law.

Such as?

Tort reform and cross-border competition. Duh!

Those are the only ideas that have ever come from the right on this issue.

well, that and obamacare.


j.imagehost.org
 
2012-07-03 08:02:55 PM  
9/10, better than 97% of Americans
 
2012-07-03 08:03:25 PM  
Holy carp I got ten out of ten...

I was so sure - absolutely sure - that I'd gotten a couple of them wrong that I'm not sure in my case it speaks well to my grade. It was weird - upon reading these policy points, I actually couldn't remember the outcome, though I knew they'd been discussed. It's like the conversation actually smothered the conclusion.

That's the Republican smokescreen in a nutshell...make the controversy so huge that people can't remember whether or not it was settled. Good work, guys.
 
2012-07-03 08:03:36 PM  

GoldSpider: gingerjet: Ah ... what the hell are you talking about? Insurance companies are not getting further taxed. We have new regulations to abide to and in exchange we get millions of new members.

It's hard to believe how people still don't understand what an enormous handout to insurance companies this was.


Obamacare is largely the old Republican plan with a few tweaks.. of COURSE the insurance companies made out on the deal.
 
2012-07-03 08:04:09 PM  

GoldSpider: qorkfiend: Would this have been able to pass Congress? No.

It wasn't even discussed. You know damned well seniors would have been on board.


Why would seniors be on board to enact a program they already benefit from?
 
2012-07-03 08:05:05 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Tort reform and cross-border competition. Duh! Those are the only ideas that have ever come from the right on this issue.


You forgot Poland cutting taxes on the wealthy.
 
2012-07-03 08:06:14 PM  
Even better. He threadshiatted on my facebook when I posted about it. I politely requested he remove that. He then ranted about how he didn't care about it for half an hour, then blew up, admitted he got 4/10, said he didn't care, fark you, got pissily sarcastic, and logged off.

...I swear, he's actually a decent guy if you avoid politics.
 
2012-07-03 08:07:14 PM  

Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.


Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.
 
2012-07-03 08:07:45 PM  

Weaver95: Obamacare is largely the old Republican plan with a few tweaks.. of COURSE the insurance companies made out on the deal.


It's cognitive dissonance on a national scale, on both sides of the aisle. Republicans call it a "government takeover" of health care, and I don't understand how any Democrat can consider it meaningful reform.
 
2012-07-03 08:08:05 PM  

jigger: Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.

Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.


ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?
 
2012-07-03 08:09:37 PM  

jigger: Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.

Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.


I'm pretty sure it's constitutional no matter what we call it.
 
2012-07-03 08:09:37 PM  

Mrtraveler01: qorkfiend: praymantis: I still believe a lot if this could have been accomplished with a simplified law.

Such as?

Tort reform and cross-border competition. Duh!

Those are the only ideas that have ever come from the right on this issue.


Not sure why they aren't interested in the severe market restrictions on the state level. That's where all the policy problems are in the first place. It's the states' farking fault.
 
2012-07-03 08:09:42 PM  
2/10...GOP-like test-taking detected.

/actually 10/10
//not a Republican...duh!
 
2012-07-03 08:10:12 PM  

qorkfiend: Why would seniors be on board to enact a program they already benefit from?


It would completely disarm the right-wing "Democrats are trying to take away your Medicare" boogeyman.
 
2012-07-03 08:10:49 PM  

Shostie: WHOO!

I'M BETTER THAN 99.6 PERCENT OF YOU F*CKERS!


but not better than me since i got an 11
(I found the question whose answer was wrong based on the recent scotus ruling)


what this is missing is the cost....would have been great to have that instead of here are all the "freebies" you get.
 
2012-07-03 08:11:00 PM  
Nanny state! Tax! Unprecedented intrusion! Wage Slavery! Saul Alinsky! ACORN! Lamestream MSM media! Woodrow Wilson! Teachers' Union! Sandra Fluke!

yay, 10 out of 10
 
2012-07-03 08:11:00 PM  

GoldSpider: Weaver95: Obamacare is largely the old Republican plan with a few tweaks.. of COURSE the insurance companies made out on the deal.

It's cognitive dissonance on a national scale, on both sides of the aisle. Republicans call it a "government takeover" of health care, and I don't understand how any Democrat can consider it meaningful reform.


While it has some things that the libs like, I doubt most are completely sold on its efficacy but we're willing to see because the status quo blows.
 
2012-07-03 08:11:13 PM  

GoldSpider: Weaver95: Obamacare is largely the old Republican plan with a few tweaks.. of COURSE the insurance companies made out on the deal.

It's cognitive dissonance on a national scale, on both sides of the aisle. Republicans call it a "government takeover" of health care, and I don't understand how any Democrat can consider it meaningful reform.


Because it IS meaningful reform. it's not absolute reform, nor does it fix every problem and every situation...but to say that this legislation isn't 'meaningful' is either ill informed or intellectually dishonest. What I get a kick out of is the sudden (and very weird) GOP statements against 'government control' of our lives. these are the same people who constantly push for ever more draconian drug laws and openly support TSA gate rape. I'm sorry but if you think the TSA is a great thing and that the Patriot act isn't an invasion of our rights then you need to STFU about Obamacare violating our rights.
 
2012-07-03 08:11:37 PM  

Weaver95: jigger: Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.

Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.

ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?


good.
so 0bama lied about not raising taxes for families making less than 250k.
 
2012-07-03 08:11:41 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: 8 of 10, better than 90% of Americans and worse than 100% of Farkers so far.


8 of 10, only because I didn't know the "government run insurance plan" wasn't the same thing as Medicare.
 
2012-07-03 08:12:43 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Weaver95: jigger: Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.

Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.

ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?

good.
so 0bama lied about not raising taxes for families making less than 250k.


Actually, Obama didn't make it a tax - SCOTUS did. So Obama is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct there is.
 
2012-07-03 08:13:12 PM  

markie_farkie: Bangladesh...........


They do have some pretty biatchin concerts...
 
2012-07-03 08:13:25 PM  

qorkfiend: jigger: Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.

Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.

I'm pretty sure it's constitutional no matter what we call it.


I'm pretty sure Romney doesn't want to have this discussion right now :-)
 
2012-07-03 08:13:56 PM  
Middle and upper class people already have insurance, so this tax doesn't affect them. Those likely not to have insurance are lower middle class and poor people, which include Blacks, Latinos, students, single mothers, and hippies. So here's the groovy medicine Obama wants you to take:

1. Do A and pay X amount of dollars.

or

2. Do B and pay X amount of dollars.

Either way, girls, you're screwed.
 
2012-07-03 08:13:58 PM  

jigger: Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one


Actually, Roberts' ruling was that it wasn't a tax, but that it was a penalty which fell under the umbrella of Congress' power of taxation.

It's the same reason other tax penalties (or, for that matter, tax credits) can exist. They are not taxes, but they are part of Congress' power to tax.
 
2012-07-03 08:14:03 PM  

GoldSpider: qorkfiend: Why would seniors be on board to enact a program they already benefit from?

It would completely disarm the right-wing "Democrats are trying to take away your Medicare" boogeyman.


Not in the slightest. Without any change in funding mechanism, it would be very easy to make the argument that expanding Medicare to all would necessarily entail lower spending on current beneficiaries. Additionally, the GOP has never needed any sort of reasonable basis to claim the Democrats are trying to take away your Medicare.
 
2012-07-03 08:14:05 PM  

Weaver95: ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?


It seems to be pretty hard for the Democrats. They do not want to call it a tax.

Neither do the Republicans, because if it's not a tax, it's unconstitutional (according to John Roberts).

qorkfiend: I'm pretty sure it's constitutional no matter what we call it.


John Roberts doesn't really care what you call it, but he said that it is a tax no matter what you call it.

The Democrats don't like calling it a tax, even though the Supreme Court said that it is.
 
2012-07-03 08:14:33 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The My Little Pony Killer: 8 of 10, better than 90% of Americans and worse than 100% of Farkers so far.

8 of 10, only because I didn't know the "government run insurance plan" wasn't the same thing as Medicare.


so you think that Medicare is a "NEW government run insurance plan" ?

hint; it is not NEW, it has been around for a while.
 
2012-07-03 08:14:48 PM  

GoldSpider: qorkfiend: Why would seniors be on board to enact a program they already benefit from?

It would completely disarm the right-wing "Democrats are trying to take away your Medicare" boogeyman.


Because right-wing talking points have historically crumpled up and blown away when facts are presented? The "boogeyman" is completely fictitious but inspires fear anyway, which is why people refer to these kinds of attacks as "boogeymen".
 
2012-07-03 08:15:00 PM  

Weaver95: Because it IS meaningful reform.


I suppose that's subjective; I'd call "meaningful" reform an abandonment of the failed employment-based insurance system, at the very least.

Weaver95: What I get a kick out of is the sudden (and very weird) GOP statements against 'government control' of our lives. these are the same people who constantly push for ever more draconian drug laws and openly support TSA gate rape. I'm sorry but if you think the TSA is a great thing and that the Patriot act isn't an invasion of our rights then you need to STFU about Obamacare violating our rights.


Good thing I'm not one of those idiots.
 
2012-07-03 08:15:01 PM  

jigger: Weaver95: ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?

It seems to be pretty hard for the Democrats. They do not want to call it a tax.


nah - it's only a big deal to the Norquist blood cultists. the rest of the world really doesn't care if you call it a tax or not.
 
2012-07-03 08:15:09 PM  

Pincy: spongeboob: So a nurse anesthetist today told me she is worried because Obamacare will add millions to the insurance roles and that we don't have enough doctors as it is and people who already have insurance will now have to wait even longer to get into see doctors.

And of course there is nothing we could do, absolutely nothing, no incentives, no financial aid, nothing we could do facilitate an increase in the numbers of health care professionals needed to adequately take care of everyone.


The sad thing is that's not even necessary. There's no shortage of qualified candidates apply to Med schools. The various medical schools and the AMA have been artificially limiting the number of "seats" available in Med schools for decades, which is why even excellent students who are willing to take on the tremendous debt to go into medicine frequently can't get accepted. Until we increase seats, however, we'll just keep doing what we've been doing -- letting other countries train doctors, and then offering visas to foreign nationals to come to the US to make a fortune off of our inability to correct simple problems like this.

/ There are lots of capable people in the US who would like a nice six figure salary and good job security. The reason we have an excess of bankers, lawyers, and dentists, and a relative scarcity of medical doctors, isn't because people would rather fight for a share of the saturated markets. Its because we let the medical community determine how best to "retain the value of medical services" through an artificial scarcity.
 
2012-07-03 08:15:20 PM  
9/10.

Apparently, the tax you'll pay for not having insurance is a "fine," which is why they counted me as having gotten question 1 wrong.

/64% of people got that one "right"
//9/10 = 97th percentile
 
2012-07-03 08:15:48 PM  

GoldSpider: coeyagi: Because it was about the law itself and not the projected outcomes of the law?

True, "results" have been a distant secondary goal of laws for some time.


I'm pretty sure 'projected outcomes' was a euphemism for 'wharrgarble'.
 
2012-07-03 08:15:52 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: good.
so 0bama lied about not raising taxes for families making less than 250k.


...making Joe the Plumber President retroactively!
 
2012-07-03 08:16:15 PM  

GoldSpider: Weaver95: Because it IS meaningful reform.

I suppose that's subjective; I'd call "meaningful" reform an abandonment of the failed employment-based insurance system, at the very least.


if that's what gets you through the day, then have at it....but this law IS a step in the right direction.
 
2012-07-03 08:16:49 PM  

ShawnDoc: Sadly my dad has now embraced the latest talking point "We're adding health coverage for all of these people, but we haven't added any doctors!". Because, no one gets sick unless they have health coverage.


Then just say.. "then you agree tat the free market has made higher education far to expensive".
 
2012-07-03 08:17:35 PM  

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: Weaver95: jigger: Weaver95: I still don't understand why this is such a big deal. tax, fine, penalty...big f*cking deal.

Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one.

ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?

good.
so 0bama lied about not raising taxes for families making less than 250k.

Actually, Obama didn't make it a tax - SCOTUS did. So Obama is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct there is.


Nope., you are wrong again.
It was a law that was challenged.
The challenged failed.

Or did you think that everything stopped the minute the court challenges started?

(hint: it didn't)

you really should learn how the judicial system works.
 
2012-07-03 08:17:42 PM  

Agneska: Those likely not to have insurance are lower middle class and poor people, which include Blacks, Latinos, students, single mothers, and hippies. So here's the groovy medicine Obama wants you to take:

1. Do A and pay X amount of dollars, unless you're poor in which case you pay nothing.

or

2. Do B and pay X amount of dollars, unless you can't afford it in which case we'll pay instead.


Fixed that for you.
 
2012-07-03 08:17:43 PM  

Agneska: Middle and upper class people already have insurance, so this tax doesn't affect them. Those likely not to have insurance are lower middle class and poor people, which include Blacks, Latinos, students, single mothers, and hippies. So here's the groovy medicine Obama wants you to take:

1. Do A and pay X amount of dollars.

or

2. Do B and pay X amount of dollars.

Either way, girls, you're screwed.


Surprise! They qualify for Medicaid under the expansion.
Surprise! There's government assistance for people who can't afford a plan.
 
2012-07-03 08:17:44 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: jigger: Because they're different things. Yeah, a fine is a type of penalty. A tax is meant to raise revenue, not to punish, although some people like to try to alter people's behavior through taxation as if it were a punishment.

Anyway, lets put it this way. It's either unconstitutional or it's a tax. Pick one

Actually, Roberts' ruling was that it wasn't a tax, but that it was a penalty which fell under the umbrella of Congress' power of taxation.

It's the same reason other tax penalties (or, for that matter, tax credits) can exist. They are not taxes, but they are part of Congress' power to tax.


What other "tax penalties" (penaltaxes?) exist?
 
2012-07-03 08:18:10 PM  

Weaver95: if that's what gets you through the day, then have at it....but this law IS a step in the right direction.


It's a deal with the Devil; more people are covered, but the insurance companies' grip on our collective balls has never been tighter.
 
2012-07-03 08:18:23 PM  

jigger: Weaver95: ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?

It seems to be pretty hard for the Democrats. They do not want to call it a tax.

Neither do the Republicans, because if it's not a tax, it's unconstitutional (according to John Roberts).

qorkfiend: I'm pretty sure it's constitutional no matter what we call it.

John Roberts doesn't really care what you call it, but he said that it is a tax no matter what you call it.

The Democrats don't like calling it a tax, even though the Supreme Court said that it is.


I could call it a Happy Funland Token and it would change absolutely nothing.
 
2012-07-03 08:18:37 PM  

GoldSpider: tenpoundsofcheese: good.
so 0bama lied about not raising taxes for families making less than 250k.

...making Joe the Plumber President retroactively!


why? Joe was never running for office.
 
2012-07-03 08:18:46 PM  

Weaver95: jigger: Weaver95: ok, it's a tax. there - that wasn't so hard, now was it?

It seems to be pretty hard for the Democrats. They do not want to call it a tax.

nah - it's only a big deal to the Norquist blood cultists. the rest of the world really doesn't care if you call it a tax or not.


Uh, no. You need to watch interviews. When repeatedly asked if it's a tax, they're all like "Hell, no. Stop saying that it's a tax. It's not a tax."
 
2012-07-03 08:19:29 PM  

jigger: Not sure why they aren't interested in the severe market restrictions on the state level.


Because deregulating the insurance industry and taking power away from the states will just result in a race to the bottom where all the insurance companies will be based in their equivalent of Delaware where they can get by offering as little as they can and charge as much as they can.

Just look at the spectacular job it did with the credit card industry.
 
2012-07-03 08:19:33 PM  

Bontesla: markie_farkie: Bontesla: My mother - in-law did not do so well.

Is she well infromed?

No, she watches Fox and declared the test "liberal propaganda."


Isn't that what they call everything they disagree with?

Also scored 10/10, but I'm big ACA fan, so I've been following them since they were just gigging in local clubs.
 
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