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(Engadget)   Cisco tries its hand at locking you out of your router   (engadget.com) divider line 46
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8200 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Jul 2012 at 2:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-07-03 12:02:43 PM
5 votes:
Note to self: don't buy any more Linksys routers.
2012-07-03 05:19:35 PM
2 votes:
All the talk of OpenWRT and DD-WRT (excellent distros) makes me want to chime in, no matter how late to the party I might be.

I cast my vote in favour of pfSense on mini-ITX rigs. Enterprise class firewall / router Free-BSD distro. I have acted as a cheerleader for this for the last couple of years and have brought several of my Network Engineer colleagues into the light. I am proud to report that I have costed Cisco a ton of business by having pfSense deployed on HP ProLiant hardware where big ASA / PIX, and router deployments would normally have happened. The fact that you can perform CARP failover, redundant WAN connections, and can acquire enterprise support for peanuts (often a requirement of company policies) makes pfSense a no-brainer.
2012-07-03 12:25:13 PM
2 votes:
This is my router. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Cisco apparently never read Routergod. Or believes that a network at home is sort of like a privacy boundary.. a "demarcation" if you will .. and that crossing that is sort of like declaring war on users... to some.
2012-07-03 12:23:07 PM
2 votes:

Dinki: I bought a couple of the cisco/linksys routers after the merger. They were shiat. The wireless will randomly stop working, or the whole thing will simply hang. Never buying a cisco product again.

/the old linksys stuff was great.

//Cisco business class routers/firewall/switches are overpriced garbage too.


Really?

Been managing Cisco devices for 15 years, also worked on HP, Linksys (pre and post Cisco), Juniper, and Avaya.

Cisco is the most reliable for LAN and enterprise I've ever seen, with the most features for administration, management and monitoring.

Overpriced? Agree.

Garbage? Do not agree.

Belkin is garbage. Never managed one that worked right.
2012-07-03 09:19:30 PM
1 votes:

DanZero: It's bad enough the cable company here locks you out of tweaking the modem/router because too many people didn't know how to work the farking web interface -- and you cannot log into the modem to make it a bridge with your own router until you give them a call for the username/password to get inside it. Stuck with their SSID and weak ass encryption too.

/at least its 40mbps


Telus, here in Canada, imposes upon its users an all-in-one Wireless router / ADSL modem. That's all fine and good until you find that the firmware has been replaced with a Telus special. Even if you disable WiFi, it broadcasts a "TELUSXXXX" (where X is an arbitrary number) SSID so they can sell the bandwidth they already sold to you, to subscribers of their WiFi anywhere product. Since every other household uses Telus, you're almost always near a Telus hotspot. There is a direct-to-WAN port so your own devices can get a public IP, but Telus has disabled that port in their firmware so that the only device that can get an IP is the one router they provide. Then they have disabled all of the advanced features of the device and require you to call them to make any changes.

Confront them on the phone and they offer to let you change to a simple featureless ADSL modem for an additional fee.
2012-07-03 08:35:42 PM
1 votes:
It's bad enough the cable company here locks you out of tweaking the modem/router because too many people didn't know how to work the farking web interface -- and you cannot log into the modem to make it a bridge with your own router until you give them a call for the username/password to get inside it. Stuck with their SSID and weak ass encryption too.

/at least its 40mbps
2012-07-03 08:12:44 PM
1 votes:
I work for an ISP that uses PPPoE for the wireless and DSL connections. Therefore I cannot stand the e-series Cisco routers, and their habit of disconnecting and reconnecting every 30 seconds no matter what you set the connect mode to, and regardless of whether or not the connection is in use.

Also, here is a list of how my customers have pronounced Linksys:

Linski (by far the most popular)
Linkski
Linksystems
Link Eye
Link 5 Y 5
Lynx
Ling-bees (seriously!)
Link
Linkies
2012-07-03 06:39:03 PM
1 votes:
Another +1 here for DD-WRT. You don't even have to be a hardware geek to install/manage it. There are dumbed-down steps online in many places.
2012-07-03 06:08:09 PM
1 votes:
Dalek Caan's doomed mistress:
Belkin is garbage. Never managed one that worked right.

I've never had a Linksys router work properly for me. I returned one three times under warranty because the damn thing would randomly drop signal, even when I was in the same room as it. The response I got? It was operating under normal parameters.

Belkin, on the other hand, has never dropped signal or had any issues, even after running constantly for five years. The Linksys couldn't go five hours without needing to be reset.

I wouldn't waste money on Linksys. Sure, they used to be good, but that was a long, long time ago back when Leading Edge made computers and Civ1 was the best game on the market.

/Linksys also overheats like no tomorrow
//in a 40F environment
/can't believe they're still charging the prices they are for their crap

Belkin is not immune to this crap either. A while back, every 8 hours, their routers redirected users to a page offering content filter software. Story.
2012-07-03 06:01:57 PM
1 votes:

FinFangFark: Jormungandr: nvmac: Dinki: I bought a couple of the cisco/linksys routers after the merger. They were shiat. The wireless will randomly stop working, or the whole thing will simply hang. Never buying a cisco product again.

/the old linksys stuff was great.

//Cisco business class routers/firewall/switches are overpriced garbage too.

Really?

Been managing Cisco devices for 15 years, also worked on HP, Linksys (pre and post Cisco), Juniper, and Avaya.

Cisco is the most reliable for LAN and enterprise I've ever seen, with the most features for administration, management and monitoring.

Overpriced? Agree.

Garbage? Do not agree.

Belkin is garbage. Never managed one that worked right.

Airlink is another shiat one. We had an Airlink wireless router that somehow made all our printers take 15 minutes to print out a page. That was a lot of fun.

I remember airlinks when I used to shop at Frys. My brother bought their USB adapters...talk about utter crap. I was skeptical about the Asus networking equipment, but it's all been great to me so far.

I also bought a Motorola surfboard DOCSIS 3 modem so I don't have to lease from Comcast, and all that combined, my home network streams great to all my devices...though I had to adjust the download master settings on the router b/c it was saving directly to the USB drive and NAS, and that was causing buffering issues while people were streaming the home media. I save my torrents locally, then move over at a later time the NAS is not in use.


Motorola Surfboards are pretty decent over all. I hated the " turn off the internet" standby button they had on top for awhile. I was working internet tech support and many times people had just bumped the admittedly reeally sensitive button. But yeah, fark Airlink right in their ears.
2012-07-03 06:00:19 PM
1 votes:
Ubiquiti makes really nice, modestly priced routers and access points...
2012-07-03 05:39:43 PM
1 votes:

nvmac: Dinki: I bought a couple of the cisco/linksys routers after the merger. They were shiat. The wireless will randomly stop working, or the whole thing will simply hang. Never buying a cisco product again.

/the old linksys stuff was great.

//Cisco business class routers/firewall/switches are overpriced garbage too.

Really?

Been managing Cisco devices for 15 years, also worked on HP, Linksys (pre and post Cisco), Juniper, and Avaya.

Cisco is the most reliable for LAN and enterprise I've ever seen, with the most features for administration, management and monitoring.

Overpriced? Agree.

Garbage? Do not agree.

Belkin is garbage. Never managed one that worked right.


I've never had a Linksys router work properly for me. I returned one three times under warranty because the damn thing would randomly drop signal, even when I was in the same room as it. The response I got? It was operating under normal parameters.

Belkin, on the other hand, has never dropped signal or had any issues, even after running constantly for five years. The Linksys couldn't go five hours without needing to be reset.

I wouldn't waste money on Linksys. Sure, they used to be good, but that was a long, long time ago back when Leading Edge made computers and Civ1 was the best game on the market.

/Linksys also overheats like no tomorrow
//in a 40F environment
/can't believe they're still charging the prices they are for their crap
2012-07-03 04:33:37 PM
1 votes:
Tales of Cisco-induced semi-psychotic fits are common. Often, people on a Cisco binge end up curled into a fetal ball, shuddering and muttering paranoid rants. Nudity and violence may well be involved too.

Yeah, I know, different Cisco.

Anyway, after years of my WRT54Gv2 working ultra-reliably with DD-WRT, I decided I wanted 802.11n and got a couple of refurbed Netgear WNDR3300 units (which I also flashed with DD-WRT). I'm hanging on to the old WRT, though, as there's nothing wrong with it. What's nice about a lot of the newer units (WNDR3300 included) is that they have two radios, so you can isolate traffic or provide a guest network. I have one WNDR3300 running in bridge mode upstairs and connected to my MythTV setup via the N link, and the downstairs unit hooked to the cable modem. The downstairs G link handles general-purpose wireless through the house.

I'm glad I didn't get suckered into this Cloud Connect Crap. Indeed, anytime I see the word "cloud" with some whizbang new service I take it as a sign to run like hell from it.
2012-07-03 04:24:46 PM
1 votes:

KierzanDax: From their TOS:

As a condition of your use of the Service, you agree that your use of the Service in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement is permitted under and will comply with the applicable laws of the country where you use the Service. You agree not to use or permit the use of the Service: (i) to invade another's privacy; (ii) for obscene, pornographic, or offensive purposes; (iii) to infringe another's rights, including but not limited to any intellectual property rights; (iv) to upload, email or otherwise transmit or make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, spam, junk mail or any other form of solicitation; (v) to transmit or otherwise make available any code or virus, or perform any activity, that could harm or interfere with any device, software, network or service (including this Service); or (vi) to violate, or encourage any conduct that would violate any applicable law or regulation or give rise to civil or criminal liability.

While we are not responsible for any content or data that you choose to access or otherwise use in connection with the Service, we reserve the right to take such action as we (i) deem necessary or (ii) are otherwise required to take by a third party or court of competent jurisdiction, in each case in relation to your access or use or misuse of such content or data. Such action may include, without limitation, discontinuing your use of the Service immediately without prior notice to you, and without refund or compensation to you.

You will indemnify and hold us and Cisco Systems Inc. and its affiliates harmless against any claims, losses or damages arising from any threatened, repudiatory or actual breach by you of the covenants set out in this Section.

Link

So, if you like to view porn, like to steal your porn, or try to set up your own porn, Cisco, at their own discretion, will essentially brick your router. And fark you on getting a refund you porn loving hippy.


Not exactly. That paragraph says if you use their cloud connect service to access your home network and THEN do the pr0n stuff, they'll cut off your cloud connect access.

Having said that, the policy is still bullshiat.
2012-07-03 04:11:50 PM
1 votes:

zarberg: f it was some shady cloak-and-dagger scheme, they wouldn't even have put in that privacy policy. Jeeze, I'd like to think that if the government wanted to do something like that they'd send back occasional packets with info on where you're surfing and disguise them as the router looking for updates.


I wouldn't be surprised if it was not the DHS, but rather Cisco's legal team put the clause in to cover their butts.

With the new NAS data center going online in Utah, the government no longer want to get the occasional packet, they want all of them.
2012-07-03 03:45:29 PM
1 votes:
Read about this last week, and had the same disconnect issues on my old Linksys router mentioned earlier in the thread. Just got my new Asus RT-N16 router and flashed with Toastman firmware last night. Holy crap, I never knew what I was missing out on.
2012-07-03 03:39:15 PM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: Linux_Yes: Cisco is the most reliable for LAN and enterprise I've ever seen, with the most features for administration, management and monitoring.

Maybe the best you've seen

Cisco is absolutely the best router in the world.

Wrong.

Foundry, biatches. Foundry.


Foundry was absorbed by Brocade, but yeah, so far they're still good. I'm not completely pleased with their multicast routing, but I'm not in a position to compare it to Cisco.
2012-07-03 03:33:13 PM
1 votes:

lordargent: zarberg: Ok, try not to be too judgemental, but I bought an Apple Airport Extreme

Aren't those things like $120?


I don't have an airport, but it's not just a router. It's a router, NAS, print server, and airplay server. If you use even two of those things that stuff, it's worth the money. If you use it for three of those things, it's a bargain. If all you use it for is routing, it's a rip-off.

If you keep a computer powered on 24/7 to act as a NAS, then you'd easily save enough on power to pay for the device.
2012-07-03 03:16:01 PM
1 votes:

Linux_Yes: Cisco is the most reliable for LAN and enterprise I've ever seen, with the most features for administration, management and monitoring.


Maybe the best you've seen

Cisco is absolutely the best router in the world.

Wrong.

Foundry, biatches. Foundry.
2012-07-03 02:50:07 PM
1 votes:
Roll your own. m0n0wall or smoothwall just needs an old PC with 2 nics. Faster, more stable and more features. Past that, you just need a switch. Super easy to admin and very very stable.
2012-07-03 02:49:30 PM
1 votes:
I would check the uptime on my current routers, but one was reset relatively recently due to cleaning and the other is currently offline as it has no use after the television used as a monitor for all connected devices exploded.
2012-07-03 02:49:04 PM
1 votes:

nvmac: Lor M. Ipsum: Generation_D: Cisco apparently never read Routergod. Or believes that a network at home is sort of like a privacy boundary

I have a feeling that the article could be exaggerating. A router should be able to act as a standalone device, like hosting a private LAN. If Cisco decentralizes administrative access of the router onto the Internet, how would administrating a private network even be possible?

CIsco's official response:Link

Engadget article could be misleading. More to come I'm sure.

/slashies


I have not read Engadget's article but this has been on Slashdot for a while. Taking away local access to a router is never a good move.
2012-07-03 02:48:12 PM
1 votes:

zarberg: Ok, try not to be too judgemental, but I bought an Apple Airport Extreme and I absolutely love it. It's got 2 USB ports, one I've plugged a 2 TB hard drive into that I can access from any machine on my network and the other has a printer that is automatically networked. Setting up port forwarding is nice and easy.

That being said, I'm never buying an Apple product again, as I've had 2 of their laptops die within months of the 3 year Applecare Extended plan ending. Probably going Alienware next time out.


I used to buy Airport Expresses. I have one for travel purposes for the odd hotel without Wireless service. But I don't really like them. They overheat like a biatch and you can't configure them with a web browser. I tried running two Expresses in bridge mode and I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather punch myself in the dick than do that again.
2012-07-03 02:48:05 PM
1 votes:

gingerjet: Durendal: This is why God made DD-WRT. I find it funny that companies like Cisco, with tons of money, total knowledge of the product, and expertise for this sort of thing, still crank out firmware that's absolute crap compared to what some guys put together in their spare time.

DD-WRT is completely shiat. The third time it crashed, it reset its settings back to its default which created an open wireless access point. I threw the whole thing out.

/using a netgear n600 now - not a single problem
//generally like cisco for anything but security
///juniper certified


How difficult is configuring wireless bridge setup on a Netgear N600?
2012-07-03 02:47:53 PM
1 votes:

zarberg: Ok, try not to be too judgemental, but I bought an Apple Airport Extreme and I absolutely love it. It's got 2 USB ports, one I've plugged a 2 TB hard drive into that I can access from any machine on my network and the other has a printer that is automatically networked. Setting up port forwarding is nice and easy.


Airport Exterme's are consistently praised for being excellent home routers. They are spendy, but crazy reliable. I gave one to a friend of mine after I volunteered for the SamKnows broadband testing project (free Netgear WNR3500L) after he was struggling with Netgear,Llinksys, and D-Link home routers constantly needing to be power cycled or dropping wifi connections. He hasn't had an issue since.
2012-07-03 02:47:53 PM
1 votes:
I've had several over the years, and they've been unreliable pieces of carp. I switched to DLink (825 and a DAP 1522) and it works flawlessly. F*ck Cisco and their nanny state attitudes.
2012-07-03 02:47:14 PM
1 votes:
I got sick of crappy routers a few years ago. I had various kinds, all seemed to drop connections or plain stop working periodically.

Then, about 6 years ago, I picked up a TRENDnet TEW-631BRP. Ugly as sin, but works like a champ.

techgage.com

NEVER had to restart it other than to unplug it when I moved.
2012-07-03 02:47:09 PM
1 votes:
Thanks guys, I"ll give DD-WRT another shot. Used to run it years ago on my WRT54GL when it was plugged directly into the my cable modem. A few moves and different routers later, it stopped DHCP packets to any device, so I switched to Tomato and have been running it since. You really can't go wrong with either, but I do notice my signal isn't as strong with Tomato, might worth a shot.
2012-07-03 02:46:11 PM
1 votes:

make me some tea: Dinki: I bought a couple of the cisco/linksys routers after the merger. They were shiat. The wireless will randomly stop working, or the whole thing will simply hang. Never buying a cisco product again.

/the old linksys stuff was great.

//Cisco business class routers/firewall/switches are overpriced garbage too.

I've had a Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato for 4 years now. Works great.

The OS that comes preloaded is crap.


OpenWRT on the 54GL here. Nice to have a router that you can configure, add/remove software, etc pretty much like a "real" computer.
2012-07-03 02:45:18 PM
1 votes:

Durendal: This is why God made DD-WRT. I find it funny that companies like Cisco, with tons of money, total knowledge of the product, and expertise for this sort of thing, still crank out firmware that's absolute crap compared to what some guys put together in their spare time.


DD-WRT is completely shiat. The third time it crashed, it reset its settings back to its default which created an open wireless access point. I threw the whole thing out.

/using a netgear n600 now - not a single problem
//generally like cisco for anything but security
///juniper certified
2012-07-03 02:43:51 PM
1 votes:
I'll second the third party firmwares.Flashed my Netgear WNR3500L with Toastman's Tomato and it gives me complete control over my network. PPTP server, QoS, traffic monitoring, and way more control of the wireless. One thing that seems common, however, is a lack of IPSEC VPN functionality. Though it may be due to licensing issues.

And for an anecdote, there is nothing quite as frustrating as putting a Cisco/Linksys RV042 "business" class router on your network at the insistance of one of your clients for VPN functionality only to have it cause a packet storm and knock your shiny new Exchange 2010 server (and several printers) off the network.
2012-07-03 02:39:31 PM
1 votes:
Gig103: Well, now that I can't buy new Linksys routers, even though I used them for over a decade, any suggestions by the Fark community?

You can still buy WRT54GLs and flash them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=33-124-190

The price keeps creeping up though. Wait until they're on sale (I bought three over the years for between $50-$65). My oldest one is about 7 years old I think.
2012-07-03 02:39:27 PM
1 votes:

YodaBlues: Ooo, how's the wireless bridging work on DD-WRT? Fairly stable? Does it work with DHCP? I'm running Tomato with a wireless bridge from my living room (xbox/tv/media pc) to my FIOS router in the office. Works great, the only problem is it only seems to work with WEP, not WPA2. Not a huge deal, don't have many neighbors I'm worried about, but it would be nice to be a little bit more secure. I tried the same setup with DD-WRT a few years ago, and I could never get the wireless bridge to forward DHCP properly, so I'd have to manually set all my IP addresses. Not a big deal, but I just don't care that much to manually setup all my devices in the living room,


I've had it going for a few weeks between a linksys running dd-wrt and a morotola cable modem/wireless router combo running motorola firmware. WPA2/AES. No hitches, just works.

FWIW, the Motorola has been as solid as any consumer network device I've had with the default firmware. Pretty configurable (port forwarding, guest network, etc). interface is ugly as sin, but I log in like 3 times a year, and it's clear enough where to go. It's almost like motorola's focusing their development on things that matter.
2012-07-03 02:38:05 PM
1 votes:

Gig103: Well, now that I can't buy new Linksys routers, even though I used them for over a decade, any suggestions by the Fark community? Netgear?


I use a Buffalo device (I'm not near it, so I don't know the model). Put DD-WRT on it. Very nice little unit.

Or you could go the whole-nine-yards and build a Free BSD box to act as a router.
2012-07-03 02:34:28 PM
1 votes:

Gig103: Well, now that I can't buy new Linksys routers, even though I used them for over a decade, any suggestions by the Fark community? Netgear?


I've been using various SMC stuff since the late '90s. They've been rock solid for me every time I've gotten one.
2012-07-03 02:22:49 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: This is my router. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Cisco apparently never read Routergod. Or believes that a network at home is sort of like a privacy boundary.. a "demarcation" if you will .. and that crossing that is sort of like declaring war on users... to some.



without tomato linux, my linksys router is useless. without my router, i am useless. lol
2012-07-03 02:21:42 PM
1 votes:

Gig103: Well, now that I can't buy new Linksys routers, even though I used them for over a decade, any suggestions by the Fark community? Netgear?


Been years since I used one, but it was fine back in the day. Beware the netgear chipsets are not generally supported by the alternate router firmware like dd-wrt.
2012-07-03 02:21:10 PM
1 votes:

make me some tea: Note to self: don't buy any more Linksys routers.


Yeah, no kidding. Or Cisco hardware, where possible. Keep your snooping "morality" out of the hardware I purchased, kthx.
2012-07-03 01:58:02 PM
1 votes:

slayer199: There's a few good alternatives if you have a Linksys WRT model. I haven't tried Tomato but I've been using DD-WRT.


My only regret with DD-WRT is that I didn't flash it to my WRT router sooner. I freaking love DD-WRT.

(You mean I can finally do port forwarding and static IP based on MAC address from the router? yippee!)
2012-07-03 12:51:45 PM
1 votes:
This is why God made DD-WRT. I find it funny that companies like Cisco, with tons of money, total knowledge of the product, and expertise for this sort of thing, still crank out firmware that's absolute crap compared to what some guys put together in their spare time.

My WRT-320N has been running virtually flawlessly since I got it, and flashing it with DD-WRT was the first thing I did.
2012-07-03 12:45:19 PM
1 votes:

make me some tea: I've had a Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato for 4 years now. Works great.

The OS that comes preloaded is crap.


There's a few good alternatives if you have a Linksys WRT model. I haven't tried Tomato but I've been using DD-WRT.
2012-07-03 12:35:47 PM
1 votes:
I have an e3000. Generally, it works fine. The one problem I have, and it's a fairly big one, is that I can either log into the router directly, or use their desktop application to adjust the settings. Neither option gives you full control, though. You have to use the desktop app if you want to use their "guest" feature. It's a pretty nice feature; I could give people who visit my house an easy password, they log in as "guest", and all they have is internet access. However, using the desktop app drastically limits to control you have over the router, you have no ability to set up port forwarding, wifi blacklists or whitelists, etc.

If I log into the router directly, I cannot use the desktop app, and therefore not the "guest" feature. The "guest" SSID is still broadcast (with no way to turn it off), but I cannot set a password, because you'd have to use the desktop app to do that...and as soon as you open the app, it resets all the routers settings to default.
2012-07-03 12:35:39 PM
1 votes:

Lor M. Ipsum: Generation_D: Cisco apparently never read Routergod. Or believes that a network at home is sort of like a privacy boundary

I have a feeling that the article could be exaggerating. A router should be able to act as a standalone device, like hosting a private LAN. If Cisco decentralizes administrative access of the router onto the Internet, how would administrating a private network even be possible?


CIsco's official response:Link

Engadget article could be misleading. More to come I'm sure.

/slashies
2012-07-03 12:25:44 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: the Connect Cloud service came with a supplemental privacy policy that explicitly allowed Cisco to peek at a user's "internet history," "traffic" and "other related information." If Cisco discovered you had used your router for "pornographic or offensive purposes" or to violate "intellectual property rights," it reserved the right to shut down your cloud account and effectively cut you off from your router.

If this is true, never buying Cisco for home or office again.


Cutting users off from porn? This does not bode well for Cisco.
2012-07-03 12:19:32 PM
1 votes:
the Connect Cloud service came with a supplemental privacy policy that explicitly allowed Cisco to peek at a user's "internet history," "traffic" and "other related information." If Cisco discovered you had used your router for "pornographic or offensive purposes" or to violate "intellectual property rights," it reserved the right to shut down your cloud account and effectively cut you off from your router.

If this is true, never buying Cisco for home or office again.
2012-07-03 12:10:07 PM
1 votes:
I bought a couple of the cisco/linksys routers after the merger. They were shiat. The wireless will randomly stop working, or the whole thing will simply hang. Never buying a cisco product again.

/the old linksys stuff was great.

//Cisco business class routers/firewall/switches are overpriced garbage too.
 
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