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(Talking Points Memo)   Mitch McConnell admits the GOP has a snowballs chance in shell at repealing Obamacare   (2012.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Mitch McConnell, obamacare, GOP, memorial hospital, American health care, Party leaders of the United States Senate  
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3144 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jul 2012 at 9:53 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-03 10:52:39 AM  
FTFA - on how his party would cover the roughly 30 million uninsured Americans, McConnell downplayed the concern.

"That is not the issue," McConnell told Wallace. "The question is how can you go go step by step to improve the American health care system. It is already the finest health care system in the world."


Sure it is for those that can pay
 
2012-07-03 10:54:21 AM  

Serious Black: quatchi: Sgt Stubby: Obama has already repealed 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and he has single-handedly repealed immigration law.

Don't forget he also personally put a bullet through Bin Laden's eye socket.

/I always enjoy Obama the All Powerful/ Supreme Dictator/ Tyrant Day much more than Empty Suit/ Ineffectual/ Needs-more-experience Obama Day.

Oh, that's today? Damnit, I got my calendar wrong again! I thought it was Empty Suit Day today. I need to go adjust everything again...


The right has pretty much had to abandon Empty Suit Day since they've (all but)nominated one as their candidate. Should be back after the election, tho.
 
2012-07-03 10:55:09 AM  

what_now: Mrtraveler01: Well to be fair,according to people like him, being Catholic means letting poor and uninsured people starve and die on the streets.

It does. Read a little bit about the history of Catholicism. It's not a very nice organization.


But on the other hand...
HATS! DECORATED HATS!
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t0.gstatic.com Cowgirl hats!~
also, funny site - evil NWO eyeballs!
www.jesus-is-savior.com
Pointy hats!~
2.bp.blogspot.comOther Pointy hats!~
rlv.zcache.comTrucker Hats!~
 
2012-07-03 10:55:45 AM  

WombatControl: - Require health insurance plans to be sold across state lines.


Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has no clue what they're talking about.
 
2012-07-03 10:56:15 AM  

Sgt Stubby: I believe that what he's saying is that this nightmare of a 'law' is already spawning regulations, commissions, committees and various forms of forced action that have already taken root. Still, with the House, Romney and 51 senators, it can be done away with overnight.

They can use reconciliation to kill it, just like the democrat party did to force it down our throats. In fact, there's pleny of stuff Romney could do with executive action (Obama style), to gut the thing on day one.


DRINK!
 
2012-07-03 10:56:20 AM  

Mrtraveler01: WombatControl: - Require health insurance plans to be sold across state lines.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has no clue what they're talking about.


Why? believe me, you want what Massachusetts is selling.
 
2012-07-03 10:56:27 AM  

WombatControl: The "repeal and replace" idea works, so long as the GOP has a plan for what to replace it with. Which, as of now, they have plenty of ideas, but no plan.

The problem with health care in America is that everyone is thinking about it in exactly the wrong way - they're using health insurance as a proxy for health care. But health insurance is worthless if you don't have enough providers to provide the care you need.

What this country needs is a totally different approach to financing health care. We need to stop assuming that all health care purchasing should be done with insurance. That causes more problems than it solves. And we make it worse by tying your insurance to your employment, which only makes sense for tax reasons. The idea that if you lose your job you lose your health insurance is just assinine. It's never really made sense.

Here's what we need to do in broad strokes:

- Eliminate the employers tax deduction for purchasing health care or extend it to individuals.
- Require health insurance plans to be sold across state lines.
- Pass legislation requiring price transparency in medical care - consumers should have the right to know exactly what the costs are on either a per-service basis or an hourly basis.
- End the tax and regulatory restrictions on HSAs (one of the worst parts of ObamaCare)
- Allow for easier access to high-deductible insurance plans for real medical emergencies - those situations where it actually makes sense to use insurance.

Basically, what we're doing is trying to artificially increase access to health care by fiat. That never works - because it violates basic economic principles. You can't give people more of something without finding a way of paying for it - but government is trying to both reduce the cost and increase access through artificial means. What happens is that you end up with shortages - it's no more going to work in health care than it worked for Gosplan's bread rations in the Soviet Union.

The real solution is to ...


What a brilliant plan. The poor can easily pay for all non-catastrophic care with the giant piles of cash they all have. High deductible plans are the perfect solution for poor people with their large liquid assets that they can fall back on. Bankruptcy for medical costs will be eliminated once we require people in poverty to cover a $5000 deductible every single year. How can anyone be against the simple common sense solution of expecting the poor to draw on their vast savings to cover the majority of their healthcare costs?
 
2012-07-03 10:56:34 AM  
WombatControl, you are speaking to a liberal echo-chamber here. To them, Obama can do NO wrong (he's so pure) and - the fact is - liberals HATE freedom. What they love... is government force (and infinite debt).

Other than that, what you wrote made perfectly good sense. That's why you'll be attacked.
 
2012-07-03 10:57:01 AM  

Sgt Otter: Sgt Stubby: I believe that what he's saying is that this nightmare of a 'law' is already spawning regulations, commissions, committees and various forms of forced action that have already taken root. Still, with the House, Romney and 51 senators, it can be done away with overnight.

They can use reconciliation to kill it, just like the democrat party did to force it down our throats. In fact, there's pleny of stuff Romney could do with executive action (Obama style), to gut the thing on day one.

DRINK!


Drink..er...what? Exactly?
 
2012-07-03 10:57:15 AM  

Sgt Stubby: WombatControl, you are speaking to a liberal echo-chamber here. To them, Obama can do NO wrong (he's so pure) and - the fact is - liberals HATE freedom. What they love... is government force (and infinite debt).

Other than that, what you wrote made perfectly good sense. That's why you'll be attacked.


Oh, I get it. You're trolling.
 
2012-07-03 10:57:18 AM  

bindlestiff2600: real question

can anyone yet say what the cost will be to a low income person (less that 20k a year)

a) if they comply

b) if they dont comply

will bow in the direction of the person that provides answer


This has become my favorite troll.

Walk in a thread and ask basic questions so others can spoon feed you.

+1
 
2012-07-03 10:58:17 AM  

Sgt Stubby: WombatControl, you are speaking to a liberal echo-chamber here. To them, Obama can do NO wrong (he's so pure) and - the fact is - liberals HATE freedom. What they love... is government force (and infinite debt).

Other than that, what you wrote made perfectly good sense. That's why you'll be attacked.


Shouldn't you be preparing for your propaganda hour, Mr. Hannity?
 
2012-07-03 10:59:24 AM  

NateGrey: bindlestiff2600: real question

can anyone yet say what the cost will be to a low income person (less that 20k a year)

a) if they comply

b) if they dont comply

will bow in the direction of the person that provides answer

This has become my favorite troll.

Walk in a thread and ask basic questions so others can spoon feed you.

+1


I don't know if you can call that a troll...
 
2012-07-03 10:59:50 AM  

Sgt Stubby: WombatControl, you are speaking to a liberal echo-chamber here. To them, Obama can do NO wrong (he's so pure) and - the fact is - liberals HATE freedom. What they love... is government force (and infinite debt).

Other than that, what you wrote made perfectly good sense. That's why you'll be attacked.


You have a fan.

How nice for you.
 
2012-07-03 10:59:55 AM  
decrying the new law as a means to transform "the American health care system into a western European system."

You mean more effective and less costly? Clearly any person concerned with being fiscally sound and helping the people should be opposed to it.

what_now: There isn't a single person in this country- save the 1%- who doesn't know of someone who's life has been turned upside down by health INSURANCE problems. Not health problems- we understand that our bodies are flawed machines that need maintenance and repair, but problems PAYING for said repair.


The thing is, they don't have to make the US system look perfect they just have to make people's perceptions put it above other countries. And most Americans don't know squat about healthcare systems around the world. They see the media talking about the (statistically insignificant and usually rich) Canadians that seek treatment in the US, they see the occasional horror story about the NHS in Britain, and then they get the GOP talking points about government bureaucrats deciding if your grandma lives or dies throughout Europe. They don't see the statistics that put the US on the bottom.
 
2012-07-03 11:00:33 AM  
Is 4Chan down or something? Someone seems to have wandered in here with some /b-quality trolling, and thinks it will fly here.
 
2012-07-03 11:01:00 AM  

WombatControl: Here's what we need to do in broad strokes:

- Eliminate the employers tax deduction for purchasing health care or extend it to individuals.
- Require health insurance plans to be sold across state lines.
- Pass legislation requiring price transparency in medical care - consumers should have the right to know exactly what the costs are on either a per-service basis or an hourly basis.
- End the tax and regulatory restrictions on HSAs (one of the worst parts of ObamaCare)
- Allow for easier access to high-deductible insurance plans for real medical emergencies - those situations where it actually makes sense to use insurance.


1) I have absolutely nothing against this like most economists, but try battling the status quo. It's not easy.
2) If you like buying your absolutely awful and completely unregulated health insurance from Connecticut, sure, why not?
3) The insurance industry has been battling this effort for years so much that even Republicans in Congress will do nothing about it.
4) Are you talking about the increase from 10% to 20% on early withdrawals and the prevention of use for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription? The latter is a debatable issue for sure, but Obamacare didn't change anything else about what qualified as an eligible medical expense.
5) There's nothing in the law that bans high-deductible insurance plans other than the $2,000/$4,000 limit on small group plans offered through the exchange. If you're an individual and an insurance company can build a plan with a $6,000 deductible that has an actuarial value of 60%, that can still be sold. If you think $6,000 isn't a high-deductible plan designed for real emergencies, you're more entitled than people who use Medicaid and food stamps.
 
2012-07-03 11:01:24 AM  

Tor_Eckman: Sgt Stubby: WombatControl, you are speaking to a liberal echo-chamber here. To them, Obama can do NO wrong (he's so pure) and - the fact is - liberals HATE freedom. What they love... is government force (and infinite debt).

Other than that, what you wrote made perfectly good sense. That's why you'll be attacked.

You have a fan.

How nice for you.


They look so cute together don't they?
 
2012-07-03 11:01:45 AM  

what_now: Drink..er...what? Exactly?


www.theagencygroup.com
 
2012-07-03 11:02:02 AM  

threedingers: The "Europe has universal coverage and look at how shiatty they're doing!" argument is pure, unadulterated fear mongering.

Notice how no one on the right points to Canada (or Germany for that matter) and says, "They have universal health coverage and a strong economy! ZOMG socialism!"


You just leave us out of your Southern troubles. If you yanks start looking too hard up North you might realize that we have a shiat load of oil too.

All kidding aside I've had a little experience with American style healthcare I was visiting a friend in the US, she developed a horrible sore throat, nasty cough, she was almost unable to talk. I took her to a doctor and once it was our turn to talk to the receptionist, I started explaining why we were there. The receptionist cut me off saying "350$ to see the doctor, cash or cheque?" I was speechless! A receptionist demanding payment to see a doctor? It was outside my field of experience, the friend was expecting that though and had her credit card at the ready so I didn't gape like an idiot too long. Amusingly earlier that day I'd seen an a smear ad from one of their governor hopefuls. That ominous voiced guy informed the viewers that so and so supported... *even deeper* "Canadian Style Healthcare." It's like you guys have been fed shiat sandwiches for so long you've not only gotten used to the taste, but you refuse to believe that some people are able to get a slightly stale grilled cheese sandwich instead.
 
2012-07-03 11:02:39 AM  

what_now: Mrtraveler01: WombatControl: - Require health insurance plans to be sold across state lines.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has no clue what they're talking about.

Why? believe me, you want what Massachusetts is selling.


weknowmemes.com
 
2012-07-03 11:03:10 AM  

Serious Black: - Pass legislation requiring price transparency in medical care - consumers should have the right to know exactly what the costs are on either a per-service basis or an hourly basis.


Serious Black: 3) The insurance industry has been battling this effort for years so much that even Republicans in Congress will do nothing about it.


Except that this is already in the ACA and it started this week.

Link
 
2012-07-03 11:03:59 AM  

what_now: Mrtraveler01: WombatControl: - Require health insurance plans to be sold across state lines.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has no clue what they're talking about.

Why? believe me, you want what Massachusetts is selling.


I would but under this plan, all the insurance companies will move to conneticut and take advantage of the lax regulations on them meaning that insurance companies will be much more protected leaving the customer to be screwed.

See: the credit card industry deregulation.

This is essentially just code for deregulating the insurance industry.
 
2012-07-03 11:04:27 AM  

Serious Black: weknowmemes.com



...

what_now: I looked into it a few times- for me, a single woman age 3311/12ths, , a cancer survivor with a yet to be diagnosed auto immune disorder and a family history of every possible terrible thing you can think of, I would pay $300/mo for health insurance.


You tell me there's a better plan than that? That I can purchase on my own in another state?

Find it.
 
2012-07-03 11:06:08 AM  

what_now: Serious Black: - Pass legislation requiring price transparency in medical care - consumers should have the right to know exactly what the costs are on either a per-service basis or an hourly basis.

Serious Black: 3) The insurance industry has been battling this effort for years so much that even Republicans in Congress will do nothing about it.

Except that this is already in the ACA and it started this week.

Link


The medical loss ratio provision is different than what he's talking about. He's explicitly talking about something like this bill that would have required all health care providers and insurance companies to conspicuously publish the prices of every test, treatment, and procedure they can do. Strangely, this specific bill was sponsored exclusively by Democrats. I wonder why the GOP doesn't want the free market to work in health care?
 
2012-07-03 11:07:38 AM  

Mrtraveler01: I would but under this plan, all the insurance companies will move to conneticut and take advantage of the lax regulations on them meaning that insurance companies will be much more protected leaving the customer to be screwed.


1) fng Connecticut
2) see the link I just posted. Regardless of where they are located, they have to spend 80% of the costs on providing health care, not overhead. The HHS has already ruled that they CAN'T make bullshiat administrative costs part of "providing care".
 
2012-07-03 11:07:51 AM  

Serious Black: what_now: Serious Black: - Pass legislation requiring price transparency in medical care - consumers should have the right to know exactly what the costs are on either a per-service basis or an hourly basis.

Serious Black: 3) The insurance industry has been battling this effort for years so much that even Republicans in Congress will do nothing about it.

Except that this is already in the ACA and it started this week.

Link

The medical loss ratio provision is different than what he's talking about. He's explicitly talking about something like this bill that would have required all health care providers and insurance companies to conspicuously publish the prices of every test, treatment, and procedure they can do. Strangely, this specific bill was sponsored exclusively by Democrats. I wonder why the GOP doesn't want the free market to work in health care?


Well, because socialism. And like and such.
 
2012-07-03 11:07:56 AM  

what_now: Serious Black: weknowmemes.com


...what_now: I looked into it a few times- for me, a single woman age 3311/12ths, , a cancer survivor with a yet to be diagnosed auto immune disorder and a family history of every possible terrible thing you can think of, I would pay $300/mo for health insurance.

You tell me there's a better plan than that? That I can purchase on my own in another state?

Find it.


As mrtraveler01 pointed out just above, if interstate sales based on the state of incorporation were completely legalized without federal oversight, every company would lobby one state to repeal all of their insurance regulations and move all of their operations there overnight. There wouldn't be any insurance companies selling from Massachusetts for you to purchase.
 
2012-07-03 11:10:21 AM  
I have a question for my American neighbours. Health care insurances and Federal and State laws are extremely complicated even before reform. It is a huge National expense and enormous problem.

Do high schools not give classes on this issue at least from a personal Home Economics perspective?

It would have a huge benefit to the individual but I can't help but think that it would have a societal benefit for people understanding the issue better in order to fix it.
 
2012-07-03 11:10:37 AM  

Jackson Herring: Mitch McConnell looks more like a turtle than any actual turtle ever has. He is the platonic ideal of a turtle. Turtles see him walkin down the street and they are like "daaaaamn look at that turtley lookin motherfarker"


Proof that America has the best Turtloplasty surgeons in the world.
 
2012-07-03 11:10:41 AM  

WombatControl: Basically, what we're doing is trying to artificially increase access to health care by fiat. That never works - because it violates basic economic principles... What happens is that you end up with shortages - it's no more going to work in health care than it worked for Gosplan's bread rations in the Soviet Union.


It'll never work!!! It's a violation of basic economic principles!! It's just like the Soviet Union!!!!!

(Except in every other civilized nation on earth, where universal health care has been working just fine for years and years and years... at lower cost than ours. Yeah, other than that small fact, you're right on the goddamn money.)
 
2012-07-03 11:12:27 AM  

Sgt Stubby: red5ish: It is amusing when Romney says he will repeal "Obamacare" on his first day as President because it assumes that the President can repeal anything, which is not true, only congress can repeal a law


Obama has already repealed 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and he has single-handely repealed immigration law. He's even personally dictating (through ObamaCare) what it means to be a Catholic. He does this, not by 'repealing' laws, by circumventing them through cabinet agencies and unelected czars.

Romeny can do the same thing and just take the thing apart piecemeal. How about a taste of your own, f*cked-up medicine?


Thanks for reminding me to highlight your posts in Grey 1.
 
2012-07-03 11:14:03 AM  

mrshowrules: Do high schools not give classes on this issue at least from a personal Home Economics perspective?


High Schools don't teach home economic. Or any economics.

High Schools in the past decade ONLY teach to the tests that George Bush required X number of students pass in order for the High School to get funding, under the "No Child Left Behind" bill.

The test is only Math and English, so other subjects aren't as important to the schools.

NCLB doesn't often get mentioned as one of Bush's failures, as his other failures are so dramatic and bloody, but this has dumbed down an entire generation of voters. Luckily, Obama has allowed states to opt out.
 
2012-07-03 11:17:42 AM  

what_now: mrshowrules: Do high schools not give classes on this issue at least from a personal Home Economics perspective?

High Schools don't teach home economic. Or any economics.

High Schools in the past decade ONLY teach to the tests that George Bush required X number of students pass in order for the High School to get funding, under the "No Child Left Behind" bill.

The test is only Math and English, so other subjects aren't as important to the schools.

NCLB doesn't often get mentioned as one of Bush's failures, as his other failures are so dramatic and bloody, but this has dumbed down an entire generation of voters. Luckily, Obama has allowed states to opt out.


Yeah, but that trickster Ted Kennedy duped poor ole' George into signing it. It's not his fault.
 
2012-07-03 11:18:28 AM  

Jormungandr: threedingers: The "Europe has universal coverage and look at how shiatty they're doing!" argument is pure, unadulterated fear mongering.

Notice how no one on the right points to Canada (or Germany for that matter) and says, "They have universal health coverage and a strong economy! ZOMG socialism!"

You just leave us out of your Southern troubles. If you yanks start looking too hard up North you might realize that we have a shiat load of oil too.

All kidding aside I've had a little experience with American style healthcare I was visiting a friend in the US, she developed a horrible sore throat, nasty cough, she was almost unable to talk. I took her to a doctor and once it was our turn to talk to the receptionist, I started explaining why we were there. The receptionist cut me off saying "350$ to see the doctor, cash or cheque?" I was speechless! A receptionist demanding payment to see a doctor? It was outside my field of experience, the friend was expecting that though and had her credit card at the ready so I didn't gape like an idiot too long. Amusingly earlier that day I'd seen an a smear ad from one of their governor hopefuls. That ominous voiced guy informed the viewers that so and so supported... *even deeper* "Canadian Style Healthcare." It's like you guys have been fed shiat sandwiches for so long you've not only gotten used to the taste, but you refuse to believe that some people are able to get a slightly stale grilled cheese sandwich instead.


Actually, I'm Canadian too. I'm with you brother.
 
2012-07-03 11:19:16 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: Mitch McConnell looks more like a turtle than any actual turtle ever has. He is the platonic ideal of a turtle. Turtles see him walkin down the street and they are like "daaaaamn look at that turtley lookin motherfarker"

Proof that America has the best Turtloplasty surgeons in the world.


Not to mention the fact that it's covered under Obama Government Socialism Takeover.
 
2012-07-03 11:19:17 AM  

Sgt Stubby: WombatControl


Don't the two of you have rocks to bang together or something?
 
2012-07-03 11:20:38 AM  

what_now: mrshowrules: Do high schools not give classes on this issue at least from a personal Home Economics perspective?

High Schools don't teach home economic. Or any economics.

High Schools in the past decade ONLY teach to the tests that George Bush required X number of students pass in order for the High School to get funding, under the "No Child Left Behind" bill.

The test is only Math and English, so other subjects aren't as important to the schools.

NCLB doesn't often get mentioned as one of Bush's failures, as his other failures are so dramatic and bloody, but this has dumbed down an entire generation of voters. Luckily, Obama has allowed states to opt out.


I always thought basic banking and understanding loans/mortgages should be a minimum requirement of anyone graduating from school. I'd add health insurance to that.
 
2012-07-03 11:21:53 AM  

Sgt Stubby: WombatControl, you are speaking to a liberal echo-chamber here. To them, Obama can do NO wrong (he's so pure) and - the fact is - liberals HATE freedom. What they love... is government force (and infinite debt).

Other than that, what you wrote made perfectly good sense. That's why you'll be attacked.


'liberal echo chamber'? if there's ONE thing about the fark politics tab its that there IS no consensus here. you stand or fall on your own and nobody is going to swoop in and purge politically dissident ideas from the site. you want to put GOP talking points into play, expect to see them ripped apart. you want to play the DNC propaganda game? same thing is gonna happen - ripping and tearing will occur. And god help you if you're a libertarian...because everyone is gonna jump yer shiat. But 'liberal echo chamber' this place is not!
 
2012-07-03 11:23:18 AM  

qorkfiend: I don't know if you can call that a troll...


You are probably right.

But I see it as:

"Ok so what was in this healthcare law that Fartbama passed by decree?"

With the Joe the Plumber style precondition:

"I make $10,000 a year, how will my taxes go up?"

On top of the 28% tax rate this fake guy is paying I am sure.
 
2012-07-03 11:24:22 AM  

what_now: Regardless of where they are located, they have to spend 80% of the costs on providing health care, not overhead. The HHS has already ruled that they CAN'T make bullshiat administrative costs part of "providing care".


In addition to legalizing interstate sales of insurance based on the state of incorporation, the GOP wants to repeal the MLR rule and allow insurers to spend however much money they want on administrative expenses. Needless to say, this would be the nightmare scenario.
 
2012-07-03 11:24:35 AM  

WombatControl: tldr


Cool ideas bro.

You should write your Republican congress person to put these ideas forward when they are debating the bill....two years ago.
 
2012-07-03 11:25:40 AM  

NateGrey: WombatControl: tldr

Cool ideas bro.

You should write your Republican congress person to put these ideas forward when they are debating the bill....two years ago.


He can ask President Obama if he can borrow his magical time machine to do just that!
 
2012-07-03 11:27:03 AM  
no worries, Mittens will get in done on day-one!
 
2012-07-03 11:27:23 AM  

Tor_Eckman: what_now: mrshowrules: Do high schools not give classes on this issue at least from a personal Home Economics perspective?

High Schools don't teach home economic. Or any economics.

High Schools in the past decade ONLY teach to the tests that George Bush required X number of students pass in order for the High School to get funding, under the "No Child Left Behind" bill.

The test is only Math and English, so other subjects aren't as important to the schools.

NCLB doesn't often get mentioned as one of Bush's failures, as his other failures are so dramatic and bloody, but this has dumbed down an entire generation of voters. Luckily, Obama has allowed states to opt out.

Yeah, but that trickster Ted Kennedy duped poor ole' George into signing it. It's not his fault.


My girlfriend's father informed me the other day that NCLB was signed into law by Obama.
 
2012-07-03 11:27:54 AM  

mrshowrules: I always thought basic banking and understanding loans/mortgages should be a minimum requirement of anyone graduating from school. I'd add health insurance to that.


I completely agree with that - American schools do a piss-poor job on economic education, and it's more important to the average citizen than a lot of what is taught. If we want to educate kids to be informed and capable citizens, what's more important to them: solving polynomial equations or being able to understand what the interest rate on their credit card actually means?

The other problem is that our health insurance system is so farked up that most people with advanced degrees can't figure it out. Especially when you start adding in stuff like ERISA to the mix. I'd bet there are fewer than 5,000 people in the entire country who actually understand that in any great detail, and a good portion of those are law professors.
 
2012-07-03 11:28:18 AM  

Serious Black: In addition to legalizing interstate sales of insurance based on the state of incorporation



I don't think there is a federal law against it. The GOP wants to take the power to regulate insurers in each state away from the people of that state.
 
2012-07-03 11:35:09 AM  

WombatControl: The other problem is that our health insurance system is so farked up that most people with advanced degrees can't figure it out. Especially when you start adding in stuff like ERISA to the mix. I'd bet there are fewer than 5,000 people in the entire country who actually understand that in any great detail, and a good portion of those are law professors.


Sounds like you want single-payer, then. That's incredibly easy to understand and figure out.
 
2012-07-03 11:35:44 AM  

WombatControl: what's more important to them: solving polynomial equations or being able to understand what the interest rate on their credit card actually means?


I don't have kids yet. But when I do unleash my terrible crotchfruit upon you all, I'd rather they be able to understand engineering principles (those horrible polynomial equations) than be taught economics instead.

If you aren't going into the field of economics, you do not need an education in economics. I know there is this conservative fantasy about us all being oil baron captains of industry with our own "self-made" millions because we're so ruggedly individualist and simply bootstrapped our way to success, but that's just a fantasy and a populace with critical thinking skills and the ability to express their understanding in fields that actually produce things for humanity instead of exploiting it are far more valuable.

WombatControl: informed and capable citizens


This seems to be a subjective term. Call me crazy, but somehow I don't think my definition of informed and capable citizen matches yours.
 
2012-07-03 11:36:29 AM  

StubePT: Anyone want to help me start the "Geico" of health insurance? When this Act takes off in 2014, minimum coverage health care will be a booming business.


I've already got "minimum health care" coverage, even though its the most expensive plan an individual can buy in North Carolina! I needed a couple of MRIs last year, and had to pay $3K out of pocket because there's a cap on what they'll pay that's only 25% of the actual costs.

I also cracked two teeth in half and needed a root canal on a third, and the "dental insurance" only paid a few hundred bucks, but I ended up paying around $7,500 out of pocket. (Yes, I know dental isn't "health" technically, but I believe its splitting hairs.)

If you include paying $750/month for the "cadillac plan" for an individual, last year I paid $19,500 for health and dental combined. That's farked up.
 
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