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(The New York Times)   Mitt may go to Israel to explain why Mormons posthumously baptize Holocaust victims   (nytimes.com) divider line 271
    More: Fail, romney, Mormons, Holocaust victims, Holocaust, US Ambassador, eyes, Israel lobby in the United States, Boston Consulting Group  
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7363 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-03 08:39:25 PM  

intelligent comment below: treesloth: I asked you one thing: Show that "most of their beliefs" came from the source you claimed, the Egyptian scrolls. Until you do that, everything you say in reply to me is evasion and backpedaling. Now, can you demonstrate your assertion or not?


The religion is based off the scrolls, he found them, translated them, then magically lost them and that created a religion. Then wrote a whole new Bible.

If that doesn't show the religion believes in the Egyptian scrolls more than Christianity and its own Bible then I am sure you have no problem just using a real Bible in your church, right? Since you are ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS and all.

You can't accept the truth, that's typical of your cult. You don't use the Old Testament that Jesus followed, you know, REAL JEWS/CHRISTIANS, your cult leaders decided to write their own inserting Egyptian mythology and ancient alien garbage based on nothing but a known fraudsters delusional grandiose dreams.

Maybe you just should have left, there is no debating a cult member.

/Just playing semantics and questioning me without any arguments on your side doesn't actually mean you're trying to debate anything. It means you're desperate not to show your derp cards.


Well, you're right about one thing. I'm really not trying to debate. At no point have I attempted that. All I've tried to do is get you to back up a single statement of yours. You failed. I'm done. Go ahead, you can have the last word.
 
2012-07-03 08:41:10 PM  

OhLuverly: If it's been said once, it's been said a thousand times. Posthumous baptism does not in any way shape or form make these people a part of the Mormon church. It is clear to see in the database that the rite was done after death and in no way can be confused with them converting during their life. Posthumous baptism is an invitation to them after their death to accept the gospel if they so chose, as they may not have been given the opportunity to do so in life. That's it. Take off your tin foil hats.



There's a difference between altering a person's body or gravesite and saying some prayers and putting them on a roster.
 
2012-07-03 08:43:43 PM  
^Shoot, i was trying to quote the posts where someone said atheist relatives would be mad if someone put crosses on their graves...
 
2012-07-03 08:46:04 PM  

Gyrfalcon: OhLuverly: If it's been said once, it's been said a thousand times. Posthumous baptism does not in any way shape or form make these people a part of the Mormon church. It is clear to see in the database that the rite was done after death and in no way can be confused with them converting during their life. Posthumous baptism is an invitation to them after their death to accept the gospel if they so chose, as they may not have been given the opportunity to do so in life. That's it. Take off your tin foil hats.

That may be true--that it doesn't make them Mormons--but it's still an affront to their survivors who know they had the "opportunity" as you say and didn't take it because they DIDN'T BELIEVE IT. Many Jews believe that baptism is a denial of the religion of their fathers, which is why Jews in the Holocaust refused to convert even if it would have saved their lives--because that was their belief.

You can't just go around saying "We'll give you one more chance not to be a Jew/Muslim/atheist (you poor deluded soul)" and expect the genuine believers of that faith not to be really really pissed at you.



The Nazis were not trying to "convert" Jews to Christianity. They wanted them out of their hair. Period.

The Holocaust was not the result of a clash of religions, rather, it was an ethnic/racial/tribal conflict - the interests of one group were perceived as being opposed to the interests of the other. The conflict in present-day Palestine is not all that dissimilar - sure the opposing sides are of different "faiths", but it is the ethnocentric tribalism and narcissism that fuels the hatred.

Many Jews - even Israeli Jews - are in fact atheists or agnostic, yet they cling firmly to their ethnocentric TRIBALIST mentality.

You may have been thinking of the Inquisition, though even that was fueled more by cultural clashes than religious.


/No offense!
 
2012-07-03 08:53:45 PM  
You know, it really boils down to the Mormons showing some simple respect. But I guess that's too much to ask from any sect of Christianity.
 
2012-07-03 09:00:28 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


I agree wholeheartedly. It's the same as if people were posthumously inducted into the Communist Party and registered as Satanists. This kind of thing has no more effect than consecrating deceased Christians as Muslims.
 
2012-07-03 10:25:00 PM  
I've found, in the searching out my family tree, that there have been several of my ancestors that were posthumously baptized by the mormons. Funny they only baptize people that are of a 'certain social standing' I have some ancestors, Sinclair's (St. Clair) in Scotland of Rosslynn Castle that were 'mormonized' posthumously.

As I have no religion personally, I don't care, but I can't speak for anyone other than myself. Although I can understand people being upset that a family member was spiritually hijacked after death by a religion that was not theirs.

I know one thing, the mormons have amassed a shiatton of documents from all over the world...
 
2012-07-03 10:41:27 PM  

OK So Amuse Me: I know one thing, the mormons have amassed a shiatton of documents from all over the world...


The great thing about my ancestry is that I have very little documentation as far as ancestry goes for the Mormons to hijack. And the great thing about me is that I'm going to outlive Mormonism.
 
2012-07-03 11:31:32 PM  
Not enslavement, but this guy knows the feeling:
cdn.baekdal.com

Link
 
2012-07-04 12:53:38 AM  
Why doesn't Israel simply convert all of the dead mormons, starting with Joseph Smith, to Judaism.
 
2012-07-04 02:46:32 AM  

OK So Amuse Me: Funny they only baptize people that are of a 'certain social standing'


It's not uncommon that people of, as you say, a "certain social standing" have better records kept of their lives, doings, existence. But, no, it's not like we score more points for doing a proxy baptism of a duke over a ditch digger.
 
2012-07-04 02:50:20 AM  

treesloth: It's not uncommon that people of, as you say, a "certain social standing" have better records kept of their lives, doings, existence. But, no, it's not like we score more points for doing a proxy baptism of a duke over a ditch digger.


c'mon, get real.

ask yourself why obama's mother wasn't worth conversion until his election? she died in 1995, yet her soul became important in 2008.

they treat people like celebrity soul collector cards or spirit pokemon - and nobody cares about ditchdigger pokemon.
 
2012-07-04 03:47:22 AM  

treesloth: Well, you're right about one thing. I'm really not trying to debate. At no point have I attempted that. All I've tried to do is get you to back up a single statement of yours. You failed. I'm done. Go ahead, you can have the last word.



Exactly the response I figured. Absolutely no evidence to counter what I've said. Your God doesn't exist or give a fark about you. And I speak as a position of authority.
 
2012-07-04 03:52:45 AM  

Amos Quito: 1. They weren't "scrolls", they were PLATES - Golden Plates, to be precise



semantics again

Amos Quito: 2. He didn't "find" them. They were SHOWN to him by an angel / giant white salamander (depends on version)
3. He translated them with the help of "peep stones" - the "Urim and Thummim"
4. He didn't "lose them", they were taken away to confuse non-believers like you
5. The Book of Mormon is not a "new Bible" (though Smith did create an "inspired translation" of the Old and New Testaments).



2. find, shown. semantics again
3. sure he did
4. exactly
5. It's said to be the new Bible, an addition to the original and "corrected"

Amos Quito: 6. Golden Plates were NEVER claimed to have been written in Egyptian
7. Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible ALL THE TIME. They just spice it up with the BOM, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Abraham (LOL!) and "revelations" given to them via their Latter Day prophets.


6. False. They were written in "reformed Egyptian"
7. Like I said, revisionist Bible

Amos Quito: True - as it is of YOUR (older but just as silly) cult, I might add...


False

Amos Quito: Yes they do.



No if you change parts of it, it isn't the OT

Amos Quito: Dude, the fact that your myths have more miles on them doesn't make them any less nutty than theirs.


Actually it certain makes them more valid

Amos Quito: New cult, old cult - crazy religion is crazy - all are farking cancers and liabilities on humanity. They were invented to control and pit one group against another, and have caused more pain, suffering and death than any disease I can think of.

Maybe it's time we just dropped this superstitious bullshiat and moved on as human beings.

No?



Religion is not a liability, stupid people like yourself are

You can self hate all you want, and live your life thinking nothing else is out there, that's what greedy self centered selfish people do
 
2012-07-04 04:51:25 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: Really shows your faith in the one true god when you're worried about other gods.


Same god.

Plus a bunch christian sects that believe that certain things have to come about, some involving Israel, in order to trigger armageddon. So they believe that helping Israel will help with the second coming.
 
2012-07-04 05:00:00 AM  
Wow there's some really awesome Trolling going on here...

I think the point should be that the Jewish people believe that by having the Mormons babtize their dead they are endangering their loved one's enternal peace. What if they're right? who knows? point being they believe it and should have the right to protect and honor their dead just like everyone else...it's really the same reason I can't go have sex with a dead body...it's not like the dead person would care...just sayin
 
2012-07-04 05:47:51 AM  

vernonFL: I would like Romney to explain why Israel's universal healthcare system - which pays for abortions, no less - is so evil, and why we would support a country that has such an evil healthcare system.


how does a theocratic state justify taking tax dollars from everyone in order to pay for abortions?
 
2012-07-04 12:49:53 PM  

heap: ask yourself why obama's mother wasn't worth conversion until his election? she died in 1995, yet her soul became important in 2008.


Maybe someone heard of her and decided it would be a good idea? I don't know. But, no, unless someone just happens to get their jollies from that, there's no benefit to doing work for prominent people.
 
2012-07-05 03:43:31 PM  
ha! you guys are still feeding Silly Jesus? Jesus!
 
2012-07-06 05:31:36 PM  

Morpheses: BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.

THIS. They are trying to increase membership numbers from the grave.

Don't believe a word they say about membership numbers. They make you file a formal letter to the office in SLC to be removed from the church membership rolls, plus endure a visit from a bishop trying to change your mind. Most people don't bother, and are never officially removed from the membership totals, despite thinking the whole thing is a bunch of shiat.

/Its a scam


When you asked to be removed from the membership rolls, they also revoke your baptism. No baptism, no heaven..... They also believe there are 3 heavens, one for the devote Mormons, the other two for we lesser gentiles.
 
2012-07-06 05:34:24 PM  

Morpheses: BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.

THIS. They are trying to increase membership numbers from the grave.

Don't believe a word they say about membership numbers. They make you file a formal letter to the office in SLC to be removed from the church membership rolls, plus endure a visit from a bishop trying to change your mind. Most people don't bother, and are never officially removed from the membership totals, despite thinking the whole thing is a bunch of shiat.

/Its a scam


When you ask to be removed from the membership rolls, they revoke your baptism. No baptism, no heaven..... Oh, and they believe there are 3 separate heavens, one for the devote Mormons, and the other two for the rest of us gentiles. (And, yes, they call anyone who is not Mormon gentiles.)
 
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