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(The New York Times)   Mitt may go to Israel to explain why Mormons posthumously baptize Holocaust victims   (nytimes.com) divider line 271
    More: Fail, romney, Mormons, Holocaust victims, Holocaust, US Ambassador, eyes, Israel lobby in the United States, Boston Consulting Group  
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7370 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:49 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-03 09:22:47 AM  
I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?
 
2012-07-03 09:27:20 AM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.
 
2012-07-03 09:39:09 AM  

RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.


But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.
 
2012-07-03 09:41:36 AM  

Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.


No, but it's not just about the dead is it? What if I decided to dig up your dead relatives and start using them in my art installation? That might be a bit distressing to your family and friends, perhaps?
 
2012-07-03 09:46:44 AM  
Sounds like epic train wreck of religious fail. Except watch them forget his mormonness since they already are so butthurt over Obama's islamicness.
 
2012-07-03 09:50:43 AM  

RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

No, but it's not just about the dead is it? What if I decided to dig up your dead relatives and start using them in my art installation? That might be a bit distressing to your family and friends, perhaps?


Personally, and honestly, that really wouldn't bother me. My belief is that upon death you start decaying back into dirt. No soul floating around. No hocus pocus associated with the body / bones. It's just a sack of cells waiting to compost.

I can, however, see more easily how someone else would have a problem with that. Are the Mormons using Jewish skeletons in art installations?
 
2012-07-03 09:54:02 AM  

Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?


it's just a dick move. it's no less of a dick move than going up to you and baptizing you while you're alive without your input on the topic.

that doesn't mean you get claimed by the jesus team or alter who or what you are, it means somebody in your general vicinity is a pushy, self righteous dick.

in conclusion, those mormons are dicks.
 
2012-07-03 09:57:29 AM  

heap: Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

it's just a dick move. it's no less of a dick move than going up to you and baptizing you while you're alive without your input on the topic.

that doesn't mean you get claimed by the jesus team or alter who or what you are, it means somebody in your general vicinity is a pushy, self righteous dick.

in conclusion, those mormons are dicks.


So saying some chant, or whatever the hell it is that they do, from a thousand miles away, unbeknownst to the dead person (obviously) is the same as someone coming up to me and splashing water in my face?
 
2012-07-03 10:01:37 AM  

Silly Jesus: So saying some chant, or whatever the hell it is that they do, from a thousand miles away, unbeknownst to the dead person (obviously) is the same as someone coming up to me and splashing water in my face?


i didn't say it was the same, i said they were both dick moves.

kinda like punching a dwarf and shiatting in a mailbox are both dick moves - that doesn't mean dwarf punching and mailbox shiatting are the same thing.
 
2012-07-03 10:04:31 AM  

heap: Silly Jesus: So saying some chant, or whatever the hell it is that they do, from a thousand miles away, unbeknownst to the dead person (obviously) is the same as someone coming up to me and splashing water in my face?

i didn't say it was the same, i said they were both dick moves.

kinda like punching a dwarf and shiatting in a mailbox are both dick moves - that doesn't mean dwarf punching and mailbox shiatting are the same thing.


Ok. Tonight I am going to baptize a Farker in the name of FSM, peace be upon him. I will pick this person at random and at no point, before or after, will I tell them about my plans. I hope that Mr./Mrs. random Farker doesn't think that I'm a dick tomorrow.
 
2012-07-03 10:07:02 AM  
Is he doing this trip before or after the election?
I've always wondered if someone can be elected president posthumously, so he if he goes pre-election, we may find out.
 
2012-07-03 10:11:36 AM  

Silly Jesus: I will pick this person at random and at no point, before or after, will I tell them about my plans.


well, that's not what's happening here - they claim their little souls like fictional scalps.
 
2012-07-03 10:20:10 AM  

heap: Silly Jesus: I will pick this person at random and at no point, before or after, will I tell them about my plans.

well, that's not what's happening here - they claim their little souls like fictional scalps.


But aren't the names of the baptized always leaked or 'uncovered'? I'm not sure Mormons really want the names of the posthumously baptized out there. They don't even let non-Mormons into their temples.
 
2012-07-03 10:20:15 AM  

Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.


It's just... rude, I guess is the only way I can explain it. The dead obviously don't care, but by and large as a culture, we have respect for the dead.

My mother was Catholic. I have a more agnostic way of looking at things. If I found out some Mormons (or anyone) who didn't even know her were performing their own religious rituals on her behalf, I'd be pissed as hell.at them. Not because I believe in anything in particular, or believe that they have power, but because my mother DID have her beliefs and who are they to decide she was somehow wrong or needed them to intervene on her behalf after she died?

I can't even imagine having this done to a relative if someone were a devout follower of the faith of the deceased as well. Like I said, it's just rude.
 
2012-07-03 10:33:46 AM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.
 
2012-07-03 10:37:07 AM  

Lumpmoose: But aren't the names of the baptized always leaked or 'uncovered'?


because it isn't at all secret among the people doing the babbling. some of it is right on their genealogical databases (apparently, they get to baptize people to decide who can be royalty in the afterlife, or some kind of goofyness. that kind of goofyness is apparently a clerical matter) and some of it only comes out as those involved in the ceremonies speak about it.

i don't really see that changing much - take the religion out of the topic completely - would it be a dick move for nambla to hold a meeting and tell their members that you or i were members in good standing?

and no, i'm not saying mormons are nambla. i'm saying that being allowed to decide for yourself who you're associated with isn't too much to ask.
 
2012-07-03 10:37:45 AM  
I would like Romney to explain why Israel's universal healthcare system - which pays for abortions, no less - is so evil, and why we would support a country that has such an evil healthcare system.
 
2012-07-03 11:09:01 AM  

vernonFL: I would like Romney to explain why Israel's universal healthcare system - which pays for abortions, no less - is so evil, and why we would support a country that has such an evil healthcare system.


Our relationship doesn't work that way. We are beholden to them. Not the other way around.
 
2012-07-03 11:56:25 AM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


The reason is so that the Mormons can claim that the Nazi's were actively gassing Mormons.

That way they can be victims without -you know, actually being victims.
 
2012-07-03 11:58:45 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

The reason is so that the Mormons can claim that the Nazi's were actively gassing Mormons.

That way they can be victims without -you know, actually being victims.


We're through the looking glass, people!
 
2012-07-03 12:00:14 PM  

serpent_sky: Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It's just... rude, I guess is the only way I can explain it. The dead obviously don't care, but by and large as a culture, we have respect for the dead.

My mother was Catholic. I have a more agnostic way of looking at things. If I found out some Mormons (or anyone) who didn't even know her were performing their own religious rituals on her behalf, I'd be pissed as hell.at them. Not because I believe in anything in particular, or believe that they have power, but because my mother DID have her beliefs and who are they to decide she was somehow wrong or needed them to intervene on her behalf after she died?

I can't even imagine having this done to a relative if someone were a devout follower of the faith of the deceased as well. Like I said, it's just rude.


Street corner preachers scream at random people that they'll pray for them. Do you get deeply offended by that too?

I guess I just equate this with getting all butt hurt over some crazy guy yelling his crazy nonsense at you. He's crazy, don't let him get to you, it has no meaning, real or imagined...ignore him.
 
2012-07-03 12:01:02 PM  

BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.


Trolling the Holocaust. That would be a new low.
 
2012-07-03 12:04:37 PM  

heap: Lumpmoose: But aren't the names of the baptized always leaked or 'uncovered'?

because it isn't at all secret among the people doing the babbling. some of it is right on their genealogical databases (apparently, they get to baptize people to decide who can be royalty in the afterlife, or some kind of goofyness. that kind of goofyness is apparently a clerical matter) and some of it only comes out as those involved in the ceremonies speak about it.

i don't really see that changing much - take the religion out of the topic completely - would it be a dick move for nambla to hold a meeting and tell their members that you or i were members in good standing?

and no, i'm not saying mormons are nambla. i'm saying that being allowed to decide for yourself who you're associated with isn't too much to ask.


I now cristen you a noble member in good standing of the Girl Scouts of America. Nah-nah-na-boo-boo. Let the butthurt flow through you. They are going to talk about you at their meeting tonight.

/6 boxes of Thin Mints, please.
 
2012-07-03 12:06:05 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

The reason is so that the Mormons can claim that the Nazi's were actively gassing Mormons.

That way they can be victims without -you know, actually being victims.


Is that actually a thing? I thought the person above you that said that was just joking.
 
2012-07-03 12:06:13 PM  

Silly Jesus: Nah-nah-na-boo-boo. Let the butthurt flow through you.


erm...you asked. if you don't like the explanation, that's cool.
 
2012-07-03 12:08:14 PM  

heap: Silly Jesus: Nah-nah-na-boo-boo. Let the butthurt flow through you.

erm...you asked. if you don't like the explanation, that's cool.


Yeah, that came across as a bit too assholish, didn't it? My apologies. Didn't mean it that way...was just funnin'.

/I'd still like the Thin Mints, though.
 
2012-07-03 12:51:14 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?
 
2012-07-03 12:52:29 PM  

RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.


What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.
 
2012-07-03 12:53:25 PM  
Farking SWEET, it's a Kerry paparazzi moment!!
Who the fark lets the woman drive the tandem jet ski?
Grow a pair, Mittens.

graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2012-07-03 12:53:40 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?


Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.
 
2012-07-03 12:53:46 PM  

Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.


Pro tip: Not everyone thinks or believes the same thing you do. Stop forcing you beliefs on others or get offended when others don't share your views.
 
2012-07-03 12:54:29 PM  
Does it involve Total Absorption?
 
2012-07-03 12:54:47 PM  

Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.


images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-07-03 12:54:56 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.


Cool. so where is your grandma's grave since you don't mind me and others crapping on it?

Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave.
 
2012-07-03 12:55:31 PM  

Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.


It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...
 
2012-07-03 12:55:39 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]


That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.
 
2012-07-03 12:56:13 PM  
Mr. Romney, who has pledged to "do the opposite" of the Obama

Mitt is going to cease aid for Israel? I can't believe he would double-cross our ally. Well, I guess I'll have to take him at his word.
 
2012-07-03 12:56:21 PM  
Finally! A presidential candidate with the courage to pander to Israel.
 
2012-07-03 12:56:42 PM  
how many electoral votes does Israel have? I bet you libs didn't factor THIS into the equation
 
2012-07-03 12:57:04 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.


So you believe no one should be offended from people crapping on people's graves then?
 
2012-07-03 12:58:13 PM  
its funny that in order to become president of the United States, you have to have israeli approval. Isn't the pres supposed to take care of America, not bow to some little tinhorn middle eastern theocracy?
 
2012-07-03 12:58:29 PM  
Well, he is taking buttloads of money from the Xtian right, so Romney must go to the mount to pay homage to the "Holy Land"/JewishState/center of craziness.

He's gotta get his ticket punched.
 
2012-07-03 12:58:33 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?
 
2012-07-03 12:58:53 PM  

falcon176: how many electoral votes does Israel have? I bet you libs didn't factor THIS into the equation


And I don't think this is even that big for American Jews. I think more American Christians flip out on America/Israel than American Jews do. (not saying none do, just saying I think a lot don't care.)
 
2012-07-03 12:59:06 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.

Cool. so where is your grandma's grave since you don't mind me and others crapping on it? Um, I said it was a BAD analogy.

Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

 
2012-07-03 01:00:33 PM  
For me it isn't so much that they perform some silly rite for a dead person. The issue I have with it, is they then claim that person is a member of the church.

Benjamin Franklin? Well he was a member of the Mormon church, it says right there in our records! Same with George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and Pauly Shore.

It reminds me of the spin that gets put on history over the course of time. You know "Benjamin Franklin - First Fireman".
 
2012-07-03 01:00:44 PM  

BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.


That only works if the vast majority of non-mormon records are destroyed.... In which case they could just say it and no one would know any better.
 
2012-07-03 01:01:24 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


Here let me honestly explain it to you:

The reason is people think of it as other people saying "Your religion is wrong!". It's like if they started erecting crosses on the graves of atheists. Atheists (many at least) would not like that because it is an affront to their beliefs.
 
2012-07-03 01:01:41 PM  
If it's been said once, it's been said a thousand times. Posthumous baptism does not in any way shape or form make these people a part of the Mormon church. It is clear to see in the database that the rite was done after death and in no way can be confused with them converting during their life. Posthumous baptism is an invitation to them after their death to accept the gospel if they so chose, as they may not have been given the opportunity to do so in life. That's it. Take off your tin foil hats.
 
2012-07-03 01:01:47 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


Never underestimate how much importance others put onto things they put their faith into. It lacks reason to begin with, don't try to reason with them now. If nothing else it's the civil thing to do. It may not be religion but there is probably something you hold deep convictions about that you wouldn't want people crapping on, whether they believe it or not.
 
2012-07-03 01:01:48 PM  

Generation_D: Sounds like epic train wreck of religious fail. Except watch them forget his mormonness since they already are so butthurt over Obama's islamicness.


Not just that: Imagine if the Ayatollah's in Iran decided Brigham Young's been posthumously converted to Islam and given a muslim name. You don't think the Mormons would be hella-pissed about somebody converting him?
 
2012-07-03 01:02:11 PM  

DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...


It can create uneasiness.

/And don't him Shirley
 
2012-07-03 01:02:42 PM  

Silly Jesus: Cool. so where is your grandma's grave since you don't mind me and others crapping on it? Um, I said it was a BAD analogy.


Why is it? Aren't they dead? Do dead people care more about crap on their grave then these ceremonies?

Are you saying dead people know when people crap on their graves magically?
 
2012-07-03 01:02:44 PM  

serpent_sky: Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It's just... rude, I guess is the only way I can explain it. The dead obviously don't care, but by and large as a culture, we have respect for the dead.

My mother was Catholic. I have a more agnostic way of looking at things. If I found out some Mormons (or anyone) who didn't even know her were performing their own religious rituals on her behalf, I'd be pissed as hell.at them. Not because I believe in anything in particular, or believe that they have power, but because my mother DID have her beliefs and who are they to decide she was somehow wrong or needed them to intervene on her behalf after she died?

I can't even imagine having this done to a relative if someone were a devout follower of the faith of the deceased as well. Like I said, it's just rude.


Exactly: rude indeed. It's presumptuous for someone to assume that being roped into their religion is what the deceased would have wished for. If we're going to be stuck with sky wizards, keep 'em opt-in, please, not opt-out.
 
2012-07-03 01:02:49 PM  

DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...


Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

It's like if we were walking down the sidewalk together and happened upon a schizophrenic guy screaming random nonsense and I said "WTF?" and you said, "I know, but can't you at least sort of see where he's coming from?"
 
2012-07-03 01:03:10 PM  

Silly Jesus: My belief is that upon death you start decaying back into dirt. No soul floating around. No hocus pocus associated with the body / bones. It's just a sack of cells waiting to compost


They believe differently, and as such aren't pleased as this is personally offensive to their beliefs. If you do not share either of those faiths, it might seem odd. So it goes for every religion.
 
2012-07-03 01:03:18 PM  

Famous Thamas: For me it isn't so much that they perform some silly rite for a dead person. The issue I have with it, is they then claim that person is a member of the church.

Benjamin Franklin? Well he was a member of the Mormon church, it says right there in our records! Same with George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and Pauly Shore.

It reminds me of the spin that gets put on history over the course of time. You know "Benjamin Franklin - First Fireman".


Just because offended people SAY that's what they are doing doesn't mean that IS what they are doing.

They claim the "work" has been done for the person, they do not count the deceased as a convert.
 
2012-07-03 01:03:21 PM  
So he's going to the Middle East to give some speeches in the run up to the election? Hey, whatever works.
 
2012-07-03 01:03:31 PM  

Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.


So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?
 
2012-07-03 01:04:24 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.


I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?
 
2012-07-03 01:04:57 PM  

Silly Jesus: Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.


Then why exactly would you be against someone crapping on someones grave then?

You just said "so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family" so why can't I crap on your grandmas grave?
 
2012-07-03 01:05:03 PM  
Wait, we are missing the real controversy. Mitt is going abroad while just a candidate, taking secret service along with him. This will surely cost the American tax payer 200 million dollars a day! Where is the outrage?
 
2012-07-03 01:06:05 PM  

Silly Jesus: heap: Silly Jesus: So saying some chant, or whatever the hell it is that they do, from a thousand miles away, unbeknownst to the dead person (obviously) is the same as someone coming up to me and splashing water in my face?

i didn't say it was the same, i said they were both dick moves.

kinda like punching a dwarf and shiatting in a mailbox are both dick moves - that doesn't mean dwarf punching and mailbox shiatting are the same thing.

Ok. Tonight I am going to baptize a Farker in the name of FSM, peace be upon him. I will pick this person at random and at no point, before or after, will I tell them about my plans. I hope that Mr./Mrs. random Farker doesn't think that I'm a dick tomorrow.


It's been done
May contain NSFW language
 
2012-07-03 01:06:26 PM  

Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

No, but it's not just about the dead is it? What if I decided to dig up your dead relatives and start using them in my art installation? That might be a bit distressing to your family and friends, perhaps?

Personally, and honestly, that really wouldn't bother me. My belief is that upon death you start decaying back into dirt. No soul floating around. No hocus pocus associated with the body / bones. It's just a sack of cells waiting to compost.

I can, however, see more easily how someone else would have a problem with that. Are the Mormons using Jewish skeletons in art installations?


It's actually more that the Mormons are using this to claim Mormons were targeted in the Holocaust.
 
2012-07-03 01:06:35 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?


What are you saying? Do you even listen to what you are saying?

All opinions are not equally valid. But people are offended by different reasons.

I think it's stupid you get offended by me crapping on your grandma grave. So you shouldn't get offended for me doing it right?
 
2012-07-03 01:06:38 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.

So you believe no one should be offended from people crapping on people's graves then?


For purely practical reasons. If someone wanted to visit the grave and there was a turd there, that might be unpleasant. I don't think that the dead person would care though, and I, as the visitor, wouldn't think that the turd tarnished the sack of bones in the ground somehow.
 
2012-07-03 01:06:56 PM  
So, not to take away from the enlightenment here, but Mormons hope to baptise the world. EVERYONE.

So they are not just doing this for Jews, thats just the group that got all butthurt about it. The Mormons believe they must do this for all people (even Nazi's and Taliban) they are not doing it for the Jews to pick on them, or to belong to some club of people who have died for their religion. Technically they already belong to that club.

Mormons believe that baptism for the dead allows them the oportunity to accept or deny the ordinance in the afterlife. They beleive offering the dead this choice is a mission of the church.

/not Mormon, just grew up in Utah.
 
2012-07-03 01:07:04 PM  

Generation_D: Sounds like epic train wreck of religious fail. Except watch them forget his mormonness since they already are so butthurt over Obama's islamicness.


they just want his assurance that he will attack Iran for them.
 
2012-07-03 01:07:27 PM  

Chewb1zz: Wait, we are missing the real controversy. Mitt is going abroad while just a candidate, taking secret service along with him. This will surely cost the American tax payer 200 million dollars a day! Where is the outrage?


Things that everyone does is only offensive when it is Obama.
 
2012-07-03 01:08:05 PM  
Please do that, Mitt. I waill have my popcorn ready.
 
2012-07-03 01:08:23 PM  

liam76: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?


WTF? That's a rational leap to you?
 
2012-07-03 01:09:03 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.

So you believe no one should be offended from people crapping on people's graves then?

For purely practical reasons. If someone wanted to visit the grave and there was a turd there, that might be unpleasant. I don't think that the dead person would care though, and I, as the visitor, wouldn't think that the turd tarnished the sack of bones in the ground somehow.


Why would you visit her grave? I thought you were an atheist. Why would you visit bones? Why should you care?

So then why would you care? There are turds in the park, why not on a grave? You still haven't explained.
 
2012-07-03 01:09:40 PM  
mob561.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-03 01:11:33 PM  

Silly Jesus: liam76: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?

WTF? That's a rational leap to you?


It is, if your not intolerant to religious sensibilities. It's similar.

You are making a mockery of something held important to a person.
 
2012-07-03 01:12:41 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.

So you believe no one should be offended from people crapping on people's graves then?

For purely practical reasons. If someone wanted to visit the grave and there was a turd there, that might be unpleasant. I don't think that the dead person would care though, and I, as the visitor, wouldn't think that the turd tarnished the sack of bones in the ground somehow.


So then I can poop all over her grave as long as I clean it up?
 
2012-07-03 01:12:46 PM  
Really shows your faith in the one true god when you're worried about other gods.
 
2012-07-03 01:12:51 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?


Personally, no. It's be no different from me putting meatballs on all of their graves. What does it change?
 
2012-07-03 01:14:02 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

No, but it's not just about the dead is it? What if I decided to dig up your dead relatives and start using them in my art installation? That might be a bit distressing to your family and friends, perhaps?

Personally, and honestly, that really wouldn't bother me. My belief is that upon death you start decaying back into dirt. No soul floating around. No hocus pocus associated with the body / bones. It's just a sack of cells waiting to compost.

I can, however, see more easily how someone else would have a problem with that. Are the Mormons using Jewish skeletons in art installations?

It's actually more that the Mormons are using this to claim Mormons were targeted in the Holocaust.


Citation needed.

Mormons have a very nice history of real and imagined persecution right here in the USof A. Even though it happened so long ago that no one alive knew any alive that knew anyone from that time they WON'T farkING SHUT UP ABOUT IT.

They don't need the Holocaust, and even if they were going to use it, the Nazis killed some 12 million people, it's very likely they snagged a pack of Mormons or two.
 
2012-07-03 01:14:05 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

Then why exactly would you be against someone crapping on someones grave then?

You just said "so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family" so why can't I crap on your grandmas grave?


I explained it. It's not pleasant if one were to want to visit the grave site.
 
2012-07-03 01:14:47 PM  
FWIW, the LDS church has very explicitly come out against the above-described baptisms. When it happens, it's rogue members who are initiating it. Can't judge a whole religion by what a couple of bad actors do.
 
2012-07-03 01:15:34 PM  
I like the guy with the website that will posthumously gay marry Mormons.
 
2012-07-03 01:16:05 PM  
FTFA: "Mr. Romney, who has pledged to "do the opposite" of the Obama administration on matters pertaining to Israel"

So, by "do the opposite" are we to presume that "President" Romney would tell Israel to gtfo of the West Bank, return the Golan Heights to Syria, cut off economic and military support, and tell them he is recognizing the State of Palestine?

Because that's what "doing the opposite" means in plain English.
 
2012-07-03 01:16:36 PM  
Silly Jesus, trolls are for kicks. or something.

+1 for getting the entire thread to feed you. impressive.
 
2012-07-03 01:16:49 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

Then why exactly would you be against someone crapping on someones grave then?

You just said "so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family" so why can't I crap on your grandmas grave?

I explained it. It's not pleasant if one were to want to visit the grave site.


Sorry why would you visit those bones again?

So if I clean it up I can shiat all over it? With lot's of squirts all over the grave stone?
 
2012-07-03 01:18:00 PM  

PluckYew: Silly Jesus: heap: Silly Jesus: So saying some chant, or whatever the hell it is that they do, from a thousand miles away, unbeknownst to the dead person (obviously) is the same as someone coming up to me and splashing water in my face?

i didn't say it was the same, i said they were both dick moves.

kinda like punching a dwarf and shiatting in a mailbox are both dick moves - that doesn't mean dwarf punching and mailbox shiatting are the same thing.

Ok. Tonight I am going to baptize a Farker in the name of FSM, peace be upon him. I will pick this person at random and at no point, before or after, will I tell them about my plans. I hope that Mr./Mrs. random Farker doesn't think that I'm a dick tomorrow.

It's been done
May contain NSFW language


Ha! Loved it.

on a side note..a technical question..how do you link to a certain spot in the video as you did?
 
2012-07-03 01:18:27 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?

Personally, no. It's be no different from me putting meatballs on all of their graves. What does it change?


Because it belittles their beliefs they had while they were alive.
 
2012-07-03 01:19:50 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?

What are you saying? Do you even listen to what you are saying?

All opinions are not equally valid. But people are offended by different reasons.

I think it's stupid you get offended by me crapping on your grandma grave. So you shouldn't get offended for me doing it right?

 
2012-07-03 01:20:29 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

Then why exactly would you be against someone crapping on someones grave then?

You just said "so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family" so why can't I crap on your grandmas grave?

I explained it. It's not pleasant if one were to want to visit the grave site.


Ok I'll just piss on it! It will make the grass greener. Then I can send it out as my Christmas card.
 
2012-07-03 01:21:49 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?

What are you saying? Do you even listen to what you are saying?

All opinions are not equally valid. But people are offended by different reasons.

I think it's stupid you get offended by me crapping on your grandma grave. So you shouldn't get offended for me doing it right?


Well aren't you saying these people shouldn't be offended because YOU think it's stupid?

Why does it work for you but not for anyone else? That the argument YOU are making I just turned it around on you and now you are saying it's not a valid argument.
 
2012-07-03 01:24:22 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.

So you believe no one should be offended from people crapping on people's graves then?

For purely practical reasons. If someone wanted to visit the grave and there was a turd there, that might be unpleasant. I don't think that the dead person would care though, and I, as the visitor, wouldn't think that the turd tarnished the sack of bones in the ground somehow.

Why would you visit her grave? I thought you were an atheist. Why would you visit bones? Why should you care?

So then why would you care? There are turds in the park, why not on a grave? You still haven't explained.


Lol. It's a natural gathering place for family to come together and share memories on the anniversary of a death or their birthday etc. That doesn't mean that there's a spiritual element to it. A seance isn't held.

There are human turds already spread around most parks? Where the fark do you live? It isn't rational to not want a family gathering around a pile of turds?
 
2012-07-03 01:24:37 PM  

Silly Jesus: liam76: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?

WTF? That's a rational leap to you?


Yes it is.

Black people were killed and threatened with being hung. The effigy being hung doesn't physically hurt anyone.

Jews were were killed over and threatened for their religion and not being baptised. The posthmous baptism doesn't actually hurt anyone.

if you have a problem with one symbolic act that brings up a "painful" part of history you hsould have a problem with the other.
 
2012-07-03 01:24:52 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?

What are you saying? Do you even listen to what you are saying?

All opinions are not equally valid. But people are offended by different reasons.

I think it's stupid you get offended by me crapping on your grandma grave. So you shouldn't get offended for me doing it right?


Are you so stupid you don't understand my argument is being made rhetorically?

I don't ACTUALLY believe people should be able to crap on other people's graves!! I am just using the same arguments you are using, so when you say my argument is stupid you are saying your own argument is stupid.

YOU believing people shouldn't get offended is YOU saying that other people should all obey YOUR opinion.
 
2012-07-03 01:26:27 PM  

Silly Jesus: Lol. It's a natural gathering place for family to come together and share memories on the anniversary of a death or their birthday etc. That doesn't mean that there's a spiritual element to it. A seance isn't held.


What? Why waste gas? What "magic" do you think grave sites hold?

So can I piss on her grave? You still haven't answered. I'll get like 10 guys to do it. It will make the grass all nice and green.
 
2012-07-03 01:29:02 PM  
oh hey, it's Silly Jesus, the borderline troll and/or Farker who has no human empathy!

might be better to just ignore him. he posts merely to get a rise out of people.
 
2012-07-03 01:29:48 PM  
 
2012-07-03 01:30:52 PM  

Silly Jesus: DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...

Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

It's like if we were walking down the sidewalk together and happened upon a schizophrenic guy screaming random nonsense and I said "WTF?" and you said, "I know, but can't you at least sort of see where he's coming from?"


I don't think it's like that at all. You don't have to be religious to understand the importance of religion to others. I mean, take that absolutely unshakable faith you have that God doesn't exist and try to imagine how someone can believe that God DOES exist with that same unshakeable faith. Not having the same empathic connection with a certain subject doesn't preclude one from understanding arguments founded on that subject; it simply prevents you from believing in it the same way.
 
2012-07-03 01:32:08 PM  
I wonder how Romney would feel if he were post-infantially(?) circumcised...
 
2012-07-03 01:35:25 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: liam76: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?

WTF? That's a rational leap to you?

It is, if your not intolerant to religious sensibilities. It's similar.

You are making a mockery of something held important to a person.



"Violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children: organized religion ought to have a great deal on its conscience."― Christopher Hitchens

Religion is not something to be respected. It is the source of a great deal of suffering in this world and I do not hold it in a special regard whatsoever. Why should I respect someone's right to cause such harm? Do you respect the beliefs of the KKK, for example? Do you not think it OK to mock the KKK?
 
2012-07-03 01:36:02 PM  

farkinfilipino: oh hey, it's Silly Jesus, the borderline troll and/or Farker who has no human empathy!


Interesting, my most recent reply to him contained the word "empathic"...
 
2012-07-03 01:36:10 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Good point. Like if I was to start crapping on someone grave, why would that make their family upset?

Crapping on a grave is a good analogy for someone thousands of miles away saying nonsense in their head about someone without their knowledge.

So you believe no one should be offended from people crapping on people's graves then?

For purely practical reasons. If someone wanted to visit the grave and there was a turd there, that might be unpleasant. I don't think that the dead person would care though, and I, as the visitor, wouldn't think that the turd tarnished the sack of bones in the ground somehow.

So then I can poop all over her grave as long as I clean it up?


Sure. Knock yourself out.
 
2012-07-03 01:37:28 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?

Personally, no. It's be no different from me putting meatballs on all of their graves. What does it change?


How about this:
-Mormons baptized a bunch of dead Jews.
-Jews catch wind of all the baptizin', politely ask that the Church cut it out.
-Mormons say they'll stop the posthumous baptizing in 1995. And again in the mid-2000s. And again in 2008. And again in 2012.
-Jews again get het up about the posthumous baptizin'.

And the rest of you wonder what the problem is? If I ask you to not do something, yet you insist on doing it, then you tell me you've taken steps to make sure it doesn't happen again, and yet it still happens - what then? Do I just have to grin and bear it because you're not physically hurting anyone?

The LDS Church is being dicks, either willfully or accidentally. Not against the law, but there's certainly no reason to be silent about it.
 
2012-07-03 01:37:55 PM  

Silly Jesus: Religion is not something to be respected. It is the source of a great deal of suffering in this world and I do not hold it in a special regard whatsoever. Why should I respect someone's right to cause such harm?


You could have saved us a lot of typing if you had simply lead off with this statement.
 
2012-07-03 01:38:26 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

Then why exactly would you be against someone crapping on someones grave then?

You just said "so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family" so why can't I crap on your grandmas grave?

I explained it. It's not pleasant if one were to want to visit the grave site.

Sorry why would you visit those bones again?

So if I clean it up I can shiat all over it? With lot's of squirts all over the grave stone?


It's a logical place for family to gather...as would be an old home site, or an old favorite park etc. Nothing spiritual required.

Sure, do all you want, as long as it isn't unpleasant / unsanitary when I get there.

/You're starting to make me thing that you've got some sort of pooping fetish.
 
2012-07-03 01:39:36 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?

Personally, no. It's be no different from me putting meatballs on all of their graves. What does it change?

Because it belittles their beliefs they had while they were alive.


Their beliefs killed people. Screw em.

Would you be concerned with belittling the beliefs of a KKK member?
 
2012-07-03 01:39:56 PM  
www.latimes.com

"Relax, f*ckers. He's going to Israel because I told him to go to Israel. Anyone got a problem with that? I need a president that's going to make sure we don't waste any Israeli lives dealing with whoever we think might be threatening us. For $100 million, I expect American troops at the disposal of the Israeli government. Jewish lives are too valuable to waste on dealing with some pissant dictatorship like Iran."
 
2012-07-03 01:40:11 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

Then why exactly would you be against someone crapping on someones grave then?

You just said "so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family" so why can't I crap on your grandmas grave?

I explained it. It's not pleasant if one were to want to visit the grave site.

Ok I'll just piss on it! It will make the grass greener. Then I can send it out as my Christmas card.


You're strange.
 
2012-07-03 01:41:15 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?

What are you saying? Do you even listen to what you are saying?

All opinions are not equally valid. But people are offended by different reasons.

I think it's stupid you get offended by me crapping on your grandma grave. So you shouldn't get offended for me doing it right?

Well aren't you saying these people shouldn't be offended because YOU think it's stupid?

Why does it work for you but not for anyone else? That the argument YOU are making I just turned it around on you and now you are saying it's not a valid argument.


My opinion is reality based. Theirs isn't.
 
2012-07-03 01:43:45 PM  
I can't say I would care if it were done to my dead relatives, though I'm not certain how I'd feel if they started getting listed as "Mormon" or whatever.

I'm quite certain that those with stronger religious beliefs than I may have some serious problems with it. Perhaps empathy isn't Silly Jesus's strong suit.


/Regardless, if he goes through with it how can it not torpedo his political campaign?
 
2012-07-03 01:44:16 PM  

liam76: Silly Jesus: liam76: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?

WTF? That's a rational leap to you?

Yes it is.

Black people were killed and threatened with being hung. The effigy being hung doesn't physically hurt anyone.

Jews were were killed over and threatened for their religion and not being baptised. The posthmous baptism doesn't actually hurt anyone.

if you have a problem with one symbolic act that brings up a "painful" part of history you hsould have a problem with the other.


So hanging an effigy on a noose in a public place, which has traditionally been seen as a threat of eminent violence / death, is the same as someone thousands of miles away saying some sort of prayer nonsense about a stranger?
 
2012-07-03 01:45:15 PM  
ox45tallboy   : You forgot the part where he demands that they release that good little innocent Jonathan Pollard, whose only crime was to be CURIOUS!
 
2012-07-03 01:46:34 PM  

DeltaPunch: It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...


or maybe some of us think that it's not cool to shiat all over someone else's beliefs solely to forward your own political agenda
 
2012-07-03 01:47:37 PM  
Because practically everyone here seems unclear on the doctrine, to reiterate, Mormons baptize for the dead, by proxy. The baptized dead are NOT considered members of the church; they're only tallied as having had the ordinance done for them. Mormons believe that baptism by authority is necessary for salvation. Baptism is a physical ordinance (a body in the water, etc.). It follows, then, that those who died without the opportunity to be baptized will either never have the opportunity for salvation, or must have the ordinance done for them by proxy here on earth. IMO, it's much more "fair" to offer the opportunity for acceptance than say that the dead are damned forever because they just missed out on the chance while they were alive, died as an infant, etc., so sorry, so sad, like some faiths do. So, you can disbelieve the doctrine all you want, but you can't claim the Mormon's aren't trying to be fair about it.
 
2012-07-03 01:48:13 PM  
What we need now is a group to posthumously convert Mormons to Islam.
You could even graph it in realtime, like a race.
So as the Mormons are patting themselves on the backs for having added a few thousand more souls to their roster they'll turn their heads to see Islam coming up from behind.
 
2012-07-03 01:48:16 PM  
When Mormons die, they get their own planet.

After being trapped in that attic for five years, I'm sure Helen Keller appreciates the elbow room.
 
2012-07-03 01:48:48 PM  

Akambe: but you can't claim the Mormon's aren't trying to be fair about it.


So is that why they're making such a public deal about it? Just trying to save those souls?
 
2012-07-03 01:48:56 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?

What are you saying? Do you even listen to what you are saying?

All opinions are not equally valid. But people are offended by different reasons.

I think it's stupid you get offended by me crapping on your grandma grave. So you shouldn't get offended for me doing it right?

Are you so stupid you don't understand my argument is being made rhetorically?

I don't ACTUALLY believe people should be able to crap on other people's graves!! I am just using the same arguments you are using, so when you say my argument is stupid you are saying your own argument is stupid.

YOU believing people shouldn't get offended is YOU saying that other people should all obey YOUR opinion.


Is it your view that all instances of people being offended are valid? Or, is there a sliding scale of legitimacy for "I'm offended" claims?

I'm offended that you put a burning cross in my yard and a noose on my mailbox.
VS.
I'm offended that you wore two different patterns of plaid today.

One of those is rational, the other is completely absurd. But everyone's opinions are equally valid, right?
 
2012-07-03 01:50:39 PM  

Silly Jesus: RexTalionis:
But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?


Well, I can, but that's just because I paid attention in Necromancy class and didn't spend all my time trying to get that cheerleader who sat in front of me out on a date, unlike some I can name who used to have to let queer old Professor Whipley go down on them to get their exam marks moved up to a D-.
 
2012-07-03 01:51:05 PM  

Corvus: Silly Jesus: Lol. It's a natural gathering place for family to come together and share memories on the anniversary of a death or their birthday etc. That doesn't mean that there's a spiritual element to it. A seance isn't held.

What? Why waste gas? What "magic" do you think grave sites hold?

So can I piss on her grave? You still haven't answered. I'll get like 10 guys to do it. It will make the grass all nice and green.


I guess we could have a family gathering over the phone...that would save lots of gas. All these crazy folks flying out family reunions and such.

Sure, you and your boyfriends go practice your pissing / pooping fetish all you want.
 
2012-07-03 01:52:24 PM  

Porous Horace: What we need now is a group to posthumously convert Mormons to Islam.
You could even graph it in realtime, like a race.
So as the Mormons are patting themselves on the backs for having added a few thousand more souls to their roster they'll turn their heads to see Islam coming up from behind.


Behind? there are already far more muslims, alive or dead, than mormons both alive and dead.


Silly Jesus: Is it your view that all instances of people being offended are valid? Or, is there a sliding scale of legitimacy for "I'm offended" claims?


To be fair, it isn't as if you can demonstrate unequivocally that what the Mormons or Jews believe is false. If you think you can, you aren't half as clever as you'd like to think you are.

Your argument sort of sounds like a kindergarten teacher justifying why they they teach their entire class that Santa isn't real the day before winter break. "I'm supposed to be teaching them truth!"
 
2012-07-03 01:52:40 PM  

Silly Jesus: liam76: Silly Jesus: liam76: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

Do you also not understand why black people would get upset if you took an effigy of Martin Luther King and hung it?

WTF? That's a rational leap to you?

Yes it is.

Black people were killed and threatened with being hung. The effigy being hung doesn't physically hurt anyone.

Jews were were killed over and threatened for their religion and not being baptised. The posthmous baptism doesn't actually hurt anyone.

if you have a problem with one symbolic act that brings up a "painful" part of history you hsould have a problem with the other.

So hanging an effigy on a noose in a public place, which has traditionally been seen as a threat of eminent violence / death, is the same as someone thousands of miles away saying some sort of prayer nonsense about a stranger?


Where did I say public place?

If a group of people kept an effigy of MLK hung up and pictures slipped out people would be understandably upset (especially if after it came public they promised to stop, then promised again and kept doing it).

As far as "prayer nonsense" it is great that you are so above religion you can feel that way, but many people have been killed for not accepting that baptism and have been forcibly baptised so it is as much "nonsense" as hanging an effigy.

Neither physically hurts anyone but both are symbolic acts related with past violence and opression.
 
2012-07-03 01:52:48 PM  

DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...

Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

It's like if we were walking down the sidewalk together and happened upon a schizophrenic guy screaming random nonsense and I said "WTF?" and you said, "I know, but can't you at least sort of see where he's coming from?"

I don't think it's like that at all. You don't have to be religious to understand the importance of religion to others. I mean, take that absolutely unshakable faith you have that God doesn't exist and try to imagine how someone can believe that God DOES exist with that same unshakeable faith. Not having the same empathic connection with a certain subject doesn't preclude one from understanding arguments founded on that subject; it simply prevents you from believing in it the same way.


But all opinions are not equally valid.
 
2012-07-03 01:55:47 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?

Personally, no. It's be no different from me putting meatballs on all of their graves. What does it change?

How about this:
-Mormons baptized a bunch of dead Jews.
-Jews catch wind of all the baptizin', politely ask that the Church cut it out.
-Mormons say they'll stop the posthumous baptizing in 1995. And again in the mid-2000s. And again in 2008. And again in 2012.
-Jews again get het up about the posthumous baptizin'.

And the rest of you wonder what the problem is? If I ask you to not do something, yet you insist on doing it, then you tell me you've taken steps to make sure it doesn't happen again, and yet it still happens - what then? Do I just have to grin and bear it because you're not physically hurting anyone?

The LDS Church is being dicks, either willfully or accidentally. Not against the law, but there's certainly no reason to be silent about it.


But there's a sliding scale of the legitimacy of such a complaint. If the Mormons kept going up to Jews and poking them in the arm and repeatedly promising to quit...that situation would be completely different from the Mormons doing what amounts to *thinking* about the Jews and promising to quit thinking about them. WTF? Grow up. Both of you.
 
2012-07-03 01:58:07 PM  

jakomo002: ox45tallboy   : You forgot the part where he demands that they release that good little innocent Jonathan Pollard, whose only crime was to be CURIOUS!


www.businesspundit.com

"You think I give two sh*ts about that kid? He was a soldier. He got caught. Big f*cking deal. He makes for a nice bargaining chip, though, right? As long as the U.S. thinks they got one over on Israel, they'll feel all smug and superior and not realize WE OWN THIS F*CKING COUNTRY!"
 
2012-07-03 01:58:09 PM  

Silly Jesus: But there's a sliding scale of the legitimacy of such a complaint. If the Mormons kept going up to Jews and poking them in the arm and repeatedly promising to quit...that situation would be completely different from the Mormons doing what amounts to *thinking* about the Jews and promising to quit thinking about them. WTF? Grow up. Both of you.


Thus showing Silly Jesus's complete lack of regard for the realities of the world political sphere.

Is this some sort of elaborate pro-Mormon astroturf?
 
2012-07-03 01:58:55 PM  

Akambe: MO, it's much more "fair" to offer the opportunity for acceptance than say that the dead are damned forever because they just missed out on the chance while they were alive, died as an infant, etc., so sorry, so sad, like some faiths do.


how about you just leave your crazy to yourself?

i won't get mine on you if you keep yours where it belongs.
 
2012-07-03 01:59:04 PM  

Voiceofreason01: DeltaPunch: It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...

or maybe some of us think that it's not cool to shiat all over someone else's beliefs solely to forward your own political agenda


upload.wikimedia.org

That bastard, shiatting all over all of those slave holders beliefs for his own political gain!


- All beliefs / opinions are equally valid and should be respected, amiright?
 
2012-07-03 01:59:10 PM  
Don't forget Hitler. They baptized Hitler, too.
 
2012-07-03 02:00:20 PM  
graphics8.nytimes.com

Minimum contact with the Jewish guy. Must prevent peener circumcision. Step One: Intercept circumcising hand. Step Two: Pretend to shake hands. Step Three: Inventory shake hand and see if any finger tips are gone.
 
2012-07-03 02:00:33 PM  
Romney, an Eye on Campaign, Plans a Trip to Israel

3.bp.blogspot.com

You'll need plenty of this, Mitt
 
2012-07-03 02:02:05 PM  
Silly Jesus: "Street corner preachers scream at random people that they'll pray for them. Do you get deeply offended by that too?"

Praying for someone is different than compiling a database of lies, suggesting that everyone who passed you on that corner believed what you believed and then using that database to further market your nonsense, claim validation of it and indoctrinate new members into your alternate history.

In the end, we're all dust and we can't control what others say. But to use that logic to imply that people *shouldn't care* when others lie about your family to defend and justify things that your family would have disagreed with in the strongest of terms, is to deliberately mis-understand the human condition.
 
2012-07-03 02:02:43 PM  

Akambe: Because practically everyone here seems unclear on the doctrine, to reiterate, Mormons baptize for the dead, by proxy. The baptized dead are NOT considered members of the church; they're only tallied as having had the ordinance done for them.


whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com
Yeah, you can totally see how it says "by proxy" there. And it even says "Baptism done for" rather than "Baptized". Anyone who gets upset about this, like the Jews, is clearly just racist against the Mormons.
 
2012-07-03 02:03:11 PM  

ringersol: deliberately mis-understand


i think that's kinda the goal.
 
2012-07-03 02:04:11 PM  

Silly Jesus: But all opinions are not equally valid.


www.nationofchange.org

"No sh*t. You goyim sit there, all wrapped up in your Christianity, doing exactly what you're told. You fight our battles and keep our people protected, all thinking we have this kind of 'alliance' going on. Guess what? You're still f*cking goyim. That's all you'll ever be. You like to pretend you're as good as us, but you exist to serve us. Think about that the next time you go to war in the middle east, and how much of a struggle it is just to get Israel to let you launch the attack from inside its borders. Israel is doing you a f*cking favor by letting you die in its service. And you don't even realize it.".
 
2012-07-03 02:04:31 PM  
www.salamandersociety.com
Crikey!
 
2012-07-03 02:04:41 PM  
I don't quite understand allt he "Why should anyone care?" arguments. Even from Atheists

It's sort of the reason Pat Tillman's brother got frustrated when everyone was touting how Tillman was a GREAT AMERICAN CHRISTIAN HERO, when he was, in fact, an atheist (and some atheists also were unhappy about that, as I recall).

Or why people might get upset at the Westboro baptist church screaming that person X is IN HAAEEELLLL at a person's funeral, even if they don't believe that person is in hell (or don't even believe in heaven or hell or any sort of afterlife).
 
2012-07-03 02:04:47 PM  

Theaetetus: Akambe: Because practically everyone here seems unclear on the doctrine, to reiterate, Mormons baptize for the dead, by proxy. The baptized dead are NOT considered members of the church; they're only tallied as having had the ordinance done for them.

[whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com image 640x462]
Yeah, you can totally see how it says "by proxy" there. And it even says "Baptism done for" rather than "Baptized". Anyone who gets upset about this, like the Jews, is clearly just racist against the Mormons.



My sky-god can fart louder than your sky-god!
 
2012-07-03 02:06:44 PM  
wonkette.com
I think this one means that Fartbongo is Mormon, so Sarah Palin gets to return to govern Alaska.
 
2012-07-03 02:07:53 PM  

Silly Jesus: Dr Dreidel: Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Also when you die we will put a cross on your grave. Sure, have at it. Cover it in crosses. I assure you, I won't mind.

So you have no problem wit a christian group putting big crosses on every dead atheists grave?

Personally, no. It's be no different from me putting meatballs on all of their graves. What does it change?

How about this:
-Mormons baptized a bunch of dead Jews.
-Jews catch wind of all the baptizin', politely ask that the Church cut it out.
-Mormons say they'll stop the posthumous baptizing in 1995. And again in the mid-2000s. And again in 2008. And again in 2012.
-Jews again get het up about the posthumous baptizin'.

And the rest of you wonder what the problem is? If I ask you to not do something, yet you insist on doing it, then you tell me you've taken steps to make sure it doesn't happen again, and yet it still happens - what then? Do I just have to grin and bear it because you're not physically hurting anyone?

The LDS Church is being dicks, either willfully or accidentally. Not against the law, but there's certainly no reason to be silent about it.

But there's a sliding scale of the legitimacy of such a complaint. If the Mormons kept going up to Jews and poking them in the arm and repeatedly promising to quit...that situation would be completely different from the Mormons doing what amounts to *thinking* about the Jews and promising to quit thinking about them. WTF? Grow up. Both of you.


It's one religion "I'm not touchiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing yoooooooooooooou" another. They may both need to grow up, but the fact remains that the LDS Church could end this mishuga'as now if they wanted (and as they agreed to at least 3 separate times).

Sure, the Jews could ignore it, but the fact that it's now a more open "secret" than Anderson Cooper's sexuality kinda makes that hard. Mormons should not be allowed to co-opt (essentially trading on the names/reputations of) Anne Frank, Stanley Ann Dunham, George Washington and millions of others less famous, at their own will. Private citizens are private citizens.

If freedom of religion means anything, it's the freedom to worship as you please - freedom of conscience, as Ben Franklin put it. Baptising someone else who can't choose not to be baptised is usurping their freedom to choose.
 
2012-07-03 02:08:28 PM  
Romney going to Israel is a wonderful idea.

If he survives, I hope that he stays.

Maybe sixteen years, but that's between him and the Israeli legal system.
 
2012-07-03 02:09:11 PM  

ph0rk: To be fair, it isn't as if you can demonstrate unequivocally that what the Mormons or Jews believe is false. If you think you can, you aren't half as clever as you'd like to think you are.


www.atheistmemebase.com
 
2012-07-03 02:09:31 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Baptising someone else who can't choose not to be baptised is usurping their freedom to choose.


i agree, but you have to admit that's the case for a vast swath of them. kinda hard to let anybody know your choice in the matter when you can't even talk yet.
 
2012-07-03 02:10:29 PM  
I actually died in April and was baptized in May so am really getting a kick out of all this. When I as granted access to the database I was told that even looking up certain names (i.e. holocaust victims or other names of notoriety) that have nothing to do with my own family line could lead to my being barred from using the database unsupervised or even could lead to dis-fellowship if the meddling was deemed serious enough. That being said, some times a name will slip through that shouldn't, in such cases the ordinances have been deemed null and removed from the records. Actions are being taken, the only people who are being baptized posthumously at this point should be people with whom have an active member in the church doing their family history and are actively submitting the names for the ordinances.
 
2012-07-03 02:12:13 PM  
Silly Jesus PluckYew: Silly Jesus: heap: Silly Jesus:
on a side note..a technical question..how do you link to a certain spot in the video as you did?


Add #t= to the end then put where you want the video to start, in this case 2m57s so you add #t=2m57s to the end of the original YouTube video.
 
2012-07-03 02:13:15 PM  

Silly Jesus: heap: Silly Jesus: So saying some chant, or whatever the hell it is that they do, from a thousand miles away, unbeknownst to the dead person (obviously) is the same as someone coming up to me and splashing water in my face?

i didn't say it was the same, i said they were both dick moves.

kinda like punching a dwarf and shiatting in a mailbox are both dick moves - that doesn't mean dwarf punching and mailbox shiatting are the same thing.

Ok. Tonight I am going to baptize a Farker in the name of FSM, peace be upon him. I will pick this person at random and at no point, before or after, will I tell them about my plans. I hope that Mr./Mrs. random Farker doesn't think that I'm a dick tomorrow.


If they do, just shiat in their mailbox and punch their shortest child.
 
2012-07-03 02:13:37 PM  

Silly Jesus: ph0rk: To be fair, it isn't as if you can demonstrate unequivocally that what the Mormons or Jews believe is false. If you think you can, you aren't half as clever as you'd like to think you are.

[www.atheistmemebase.com image 640x391]


Odd that you claim to be a big fan of Christopher Hitchens, and follow his reasoning when it comes to religion (or at least appera to from repeated copy/paste of his comments), yet on this the only religious reaction you seem to have a problem with is that of the jews.
 
2012-07-03 02:15:12 PM  
Theaetetus - if your reading comprehension is so limited that you can't figure out someone who died in 1995 and was baptized in 2008 wasn't done by proxy there really isn't anything anyone can do to help you. :-(
 
2012-07-03 02:15:22 PM  

Sticky Hands: BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.

That only works if the vast majority of non-mormon records are destroyed.... In which case they could just say it and no one would know any better.


Even with mountains of evidence and survivors who are still alive, we already have a loud minority who thinks what really happened in Europe in the '40s didn't really happen. Add 100 years, remove any witnesses or children of witnesses, throw in an organization dedicated to pushing their own version at all costs...not saying it will definitely happen, but I'm definitely worried.
 
2012-07-03 02:15:23 PM  

heap: Dr Dreidel: Baptising someone else who can't choose not to be baptised is usurping their freedom to choose.

i agree, but you have to admit that's the case for a vast swath of them. kinda hard to let anybody know your choice in the matter when you can't even talk yet.


And who is empowered to make decisions (in areas of healthcare, religion, child-rearing, education - which sometimes overlap - and just about everything else, too) for their kids? Some asshole with a database in Provo? Does the LDS posthumously get to make my granddad Mexican? Do they get to undo his service record?

I just want to know what the extent is of metaphysical "damage" one group can do to another before they've run afoul of some arbitrary standard.

// my standard: if they're not (and were never) part of your group, leave them the fark alone
 
2012-07-03 02:16:23 PM  

OhLuverly: That being said, some times a name will slip through that shouldn't, in such cases the ordinances have been deemed null and removed from the records.


That makes no sense and seems to be hypocritical. If the Mormon church truly believes that they're merely offering the opportunity for salvation in the afterlife, then why would they ever remove ordinances from the records? First of all, they've been performed, so theoretically the dead soul has been asked, so it's a matter of historical fact, right? Second of all, if you believe you're saving someone from eternal hell, then wouldn't you feel your actions were entirely justified, and why would you ever retract them?

No, the very fact that the Mormons are retracting them when people complain means that they're acknowledging that it's purely politics and has nothing to do with their beliefs of salvation.
It's much the same as when the Mormons stopped engaging in bigamy so that Utah could become a state, while at the same time retaining the concept of celestial plural marriages. Pure politics.
 
2012-07-03 02:17:17 PM  
FTA: "For Mr. Romney, the trip is an opportunity to appeal both to Jewish voters and donors, whose overwhelming support of President Obama has softened"


Obama has failed to kiss ass as promised, and Xrael and her supporters want him OUT of the White House.

Mitt has to prove his fealty to the Xhosen State in order to receive the support of the, pundits, editors, political analysts, news directors and other assorted "experts" that will choose the next president of the United States for us.


upload.wikimedia.org

Ich bin mit Mitt!
 
2012-07-03 02:17:41 PM  

ringersol: Silly Jesus: "Street corner preachers scream at random people that they'll pray for them. Do you get deeply offended by that too?"

Praying for someone is different than compiling a database of lies, suggesting that everyone who passed you on that corner believed what you believed and then using that database to further market your nonsense, claim validation of it and indoctrinate new members into your alternate history.

In the end, we're all dust and we can't control what others say. But to use that logic to imply that people *shouldn't care* when others lie about your family to defend and justify things that your family would have disagreed with in the strongest of terms, is to deliberately mis-understand the human condition.


What you said is pretty rational, and I really want to be in your camp, but I just can't make it past the "competing sky wizards" nonsense.

"You said that your imaginary friend now accepts my dead relative into his kingdom, but my dead relative's imaginary friend works differently than that, so I'm offended."
 
2012-07-03 02:18:55 PM  
I'm still trying to figure out why we're allied with Israel in the first place, much less why we're at their beckon call like some kind of guard dog.
 
2012-07-03 02:20:09 PM  

OhLuverly: Theaetetus - if your reading comprehension is so limited that you can't figure out someone who died in 1995 and was baptized in 2008 wasn't done by proxy there really isn't anything anyone can do to help you. :-(


That wasn't what our Mormon apologist said. He said: "The baptized dead are... only tallied as having had the ordinance done for them."

Clearly, that's not true. Now yes, anyone can figure out that Obama's mother wasn't a Mormon, but does that excuse the dishonesty from the Mormons? Additionally, those death dates don't necessarily show up on every screen.
For example, if I publish the Grand History of the KKK with descriptions of prominent KKK members and Grand Dragons Brigham Young and Joesph Smith, but mention in a footnote on page 128 that they were only elevated to those ranks posthumously in recognition of their great deeds, is that the same as noting that they were never actually members?
 
2012-07-03 02:20:36 PM  

Theaetetus: [wonkette.com image 494x346]
I think this one means that Fartbongo is Mormon, so Sarah Palin gets to return to govern Alaska.



Nah, Mormonism isn't passed on via matrilineal descent like Jewishness.

But Romney THINKS he's an "adopted Jew".

Set him straight, Theaetetus
 
2012-07-03 02:21:19 PM  

Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.


No Sky Wizard? I darn you to Heck!

dilbert.com
 
2012-07-03 02:22:42 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: I'm still trying to figure out why we're allied with Israel in the first place, much less why we're at their beckon call like some kind of guard dog.


Probably because you are the type of person who says "beckon call".
 
2012-07-03 02:24:09 PM  

Dr Dreidel: It's one religion "I'm not touchiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing yoooooooooooooou" another. They may both need to grow up, but the fact remains that the LDS Church could end this mishuga'as now if they wanted (and as they agreed to at least 3 separate times).

Sure, the Jews could ignore it, but the fact that it's now a more open "secret" than Anderson Cooper's sexuality kinda makes that hard. Mormons should not be allowed to co-opt (essentially trading on the names/reputations of) Anne Frank, Stanley Ann Dunham, George Washington and millions of others less famous, at their own will. Private citizens are private citizens. Are you saying that it should be some sort of law? Like slander? Would it be illegal for me to have a website listing all of the celebrities that I think are aliens?

If freedom of religion means anything, it's the freedom to worship as you please - freedom of conscience, as Ben Franklin put it. Baptising someone else who can't choose not to be baptised is usurping their freedom to choose. Dead people don't have freedoms. If someone were forcing live Jews to dunk their head in a bucket and listen to a chant from a crazy Mormon, then you'd have a valid point.

 
2012-07-03 02:25:47 PM  

Theaetetus: OhLuverly: That being said, some times a name will slip through that shouldn't, in such cases the ordinances have been deemed null and removed from the records.

That makes no sense and seems to be hypocritical. If the Mormon church truly believes that they're merely offering the opportunity for salvation in the afterlife, then why would they ever remove ordinances from the records? First of all, they've been performed, so theoretically the dead soul has been asked, so it's a matter of historical fact, right? Second of all, if you believe you're saving someone from eternal hell, then wouldn't you feel your actions were entirely justified, and why would you ever retract them?

No, the very fact that the Mormons are retracting them when people complain means that they're acknowledging that it's purely politics and has nothing to do with their beliefs of salvation.
It's much the same as when the Mormons stopped engaging in bigamy so that Utah could become a state, while at the same time retaining the concept of celestial plural marriages. Pure politics.


So you're pissed when they do something and pissed when they try to make something right? Are you just trying to find things to be butthurt over at this point?
 
2012-07-03 02:27:23 PM  

heap: Dr Dreidel: Baptising someone else who can't choose not to be baptised is usurping their freedom to choose.

i agree, but you have to admit that's the case for a vast swath of them. kinda hard to let anybody know your choice in the matter when you can't even talk yet.


Ah, this is also an excellent point. An infant is no more a Christian / Jew (religious, not ethnic) / Muslim etc. when born than he is a Republican / Democrat or Red Sox fan. Those things are imposed on him, usurping his freedom to choose.

So, taste of their own medicine? Eh?
 
2012-07-03 02:28:08 PM  
Can someone see if the Mormons have blessed, baptised and processed Andy Griffin yet?

I'm picturing a 24 hour turnaround on celebs. Can't leave them parked in Purgatory with the rabble.
 
2012-07-03 02:28:33 PM  

PluckYew: Silly Jesus PluckYew: Silly Jesus: heap: Silly Jesus:
on a side note..a technical question..how do you link to a certain spot in the video as you did?

Add #t= to the end then put where you want the video to start, in this case 2m57s so you add #t=2m57s to the end of the original YouTube video.


Awesome. Gracias!
 
2012-07-03 02:28:59 PM  

liam76: Keizer_Ghidorah: I'm still trying to figure out why we're allied with Israel in the first place, much less why we're at their beckon call like some kind of guard dog.

Probably because you are the type of person who says "beckon call".



static01.mediaite.com

^What Beck on call might look like^


/That Beck, fine Mormon guy!
//LOVES him some Xrael
///Prolly Bibi on the Red Line, no?
 
2012-07-03 02:31:56 PM  

falcon176: how many electoral votes does Israel have?



All of them.
 
2012-07-03 02:32:38 PM  

Dr Dreidel: And who is empowered to make decisions (in areas of healthcare, religion, child-rearing, education - which sometimes overlap - and just about everything else, too) for their kids?


i'm not saying it's something i want altered societally or anything, it's just what the situation is.
a whole swath of indoctrination/induction into religion is done w/out the choice of the person involved. it's kinda the default.

and yah, i think it'd be spiffy if people would wait until their kids could think, but parents see religious instruction as teaching their kids how to think - it's circular, but then again, me thinking something would be spiffy doesn't mean i actually expect it to happen, either.

Dr Dreidel: I just want to know what the extent is of metaphysical "damage" one group can do to another before they've run afoul of some arbitrary standard.

// my standard: if they're not (and were never) part of your group, leave them the fark alone


same here - it just isn't too much to ask to keep our collective crazy to ourselves.
 
2012-07-03 02:32:58 PM  
"Mr. Romney, who has pledged to "do the opposite" of the Obama administration on matters pertaining to Israel,"

So he'll try to stop providing aid to an apartheid state and recognize Palestine?
 
2012-07-03 02:34:29 PM  

liam76: Silly Jesus: ph0rk: To be fair, it isn't as if you can demonstrate unequivocally that what the Mormons or Jews believe is false. If you think you can, you aren't half as clever as you'd like to think you are.

[www.atheistmemebase.com image 640x391]

Odd that you claim to be a big fan of Christopher Hitchens, and follow his reasoning when it comes to religion (or at least appera to from repeated copy/paste of his comments), yet on this the only religious reaction you seem to have a problem with is that of the jews.


Oh, I'm an equal opportunity despiser of religion. I didn't mean to indicate otherwise. The subject here is the Jewish folks being offended, so that's what the topic has mostly been. The Mormons are fools too, but that wasn't the direction that the conversation went in. Want to go down that path too?
 
2012-07-03 02:38:07 PM  

BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.


THIS. They are trying to increase membership numbers from the grave.

Don't believe a word they say about membership numbers. They make you file a formal letter to the office in SLC to be removed from the church membership rolls, plus endure a visit from a bishop trying to change your mind. Most people don't bother, and are never officially removed from the membership totals, despite thinking the whole thing is a bunch of shiat.

/Its a scam
 
2012-07-03 02:38:42 PM  

OhLuverly: Theaetetus: OhLuverly: That being said, some times a name will slip through that shouldn't, in such cases the ordinances have been deemed null and removed from the records.

That makes no sense and seems to be hypocritical. If the Mormon church truly believes that they're merely offering the opportunity for salvation in the afterlife, then why would they ever remove ordinances from the records? First of all, they've been performed, so theoretically the dead soul has been asked, so it's a matter of historical fact, right? Second of all, if you believe you're saving someone from eternal hell, then wouldn't you feel your actions were entirely justified, and why would you ever retract them?

No, the very fact that the Mormons are retracting them when people complain means that they're acknowledging that it's purely politics and has nothing to do with their beliefs of salvation.
It's much the same as when the Mormons stopped engaging in bigamy so that Utah could become a state, while at the same time retaining the concept of celestial plural marriages. Pure politics.

So you're pissed when they do something and pissed when they try to make something right? Are you just trying to find things to be butthurt over at this point?


I know, right? It's as unreasonable as being pissed when someone says a racist or sexist slur, and then says "things were said, and I'm sorry if anyone was so sensitive as to be offended." Like, OMG, they tried to make it right, you know?
 
2012-07-03 02:43:03 PM  

heap: Dr Dreidel: And who is empowered to make decisions (in areas of healthcare, religion, child-rearing, education - which sometimes overlap - and just about everything else, too) for their kids?

i'm not saying it's something i want altered societally or anything, it's just what the situation is.
a whole swath of indoctrination/induction into religion is done w/out the choice of the person involved. it's kinda the default.

and yah, i think it'd be spiffy if people would wait until their kids could think, but parents see religious instruction as teaching their kids how to think - it's circular, but then again, me thinking something would be spiffy doesn't mean i actually expect it to happen, either.



"If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world." - Hitchens
 
2012-07-03 02:44:07 PM  

Sticky Hands: Famous Thamas: For me it isn't so much that they perform some silly rite for a dead person. The issue I have with it, is they then claim that person is a member of the church.

Benjamin Franklin? Well he was a member of the Mormon church, it says right there in our records! Same with George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and Pauly Shore.

It reminds me of the spin that gets put on history over the course of time. You know "Benjamin Franklin - First Fireman".

Just because offended people SAY that's what they are doing doesn't mean that IS what they are doing.

They claim the "work" has been done for the person, they do not count the deceased as a convert.


And its farking creepy no matter how you slice it.

/Love these threads so I can fav the apologists in a nice blue shade
 
2012-07-03 02:46:26 PM  
Theaetetus many people before me have tried to explain it (and have done a far better job, I am no debater) and I'm sure many people after will as well. You've made up your mind that it is an apple regardless of countless people showing you it's an orange. So enjoy your apple sir.
 
2012-07-03 02:46:45 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


Because history is a fragile thing.
 
2012-07-03 02:47:43 PM  

Theaetetus: [wonkette.com image 494x346]
I think this one means that Fartbongo is Mormon, so Sarah Palin gets to return to govern Alaska.


In both of your examples the death date is clearly shown, the ordinance date is also shown to be after that date. It's quite obvious that this is not the same thing as a choice made by a living breathing person.

I can understand people getting offended by this, I just prefer they attack it on what is is, not what they imagine it to be.

Much like downloading songs and movies from the torrents is not stealing, this is not a conversion.


Theaetetus: That makes no sense and seems to be hypocritical. If the Mormon church truly believes that they're merely offering the opportunity for salvation in the afterlife, then why would they ever remove ordinances from the records? First of all, they've been performed, so theoretically the dead soul has been asked, so it's a matter of historical fact, right? Second of all, if you believe you're saving someone from eternal hell, then wouldn't you feel your actions were entirely justified, and why would you ever retract them?


I'm with you 100% on this.

I suspect one of the following:

Either the names aren't actually removed from the database, just blocked somehow, or if they do remove them, it's because they consider the important part done and the recording of the incident to be secondary.

I've compared them to internet providers (google and others) before, and for what I feel is very good reason. While google does take steps to block copyright violators, they can't get them all, and they run into the issue where it's difficult for them to tell if a new site is legit or not. When they are informed, they take steps. But maybe a better comparison is to Fark. Like that database, Fark content is user generated. There is some code in place to block the most obvious abuses, but by and large the moderators and user reporting to keep us in line. Occasionally one of us gets a vacation, or in the case of those that go way to far, (like he that shall not be named) a banination.

Others seem to be indicating that getting caught doing this can result in a disfellowship. It's my understanding that that would be the second most sever punishment that the church hands out, ranking only after excommunication. How often they actually go that far is a valid question that I don't have the answer to, and since enforcement is everything, that would do more to tell us if the church takes the issue seriously or not.
 
2012-07-03 02:50:24 PM  
Hmm... let me thumb through my Republican playbook from 08 and see what we've got...

Hey Obama Mittens, the election is over here in the USA, this isn't an international popularity contest!
 
2012-07-03 02:52:07 PM  

Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?

Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

No, but it's not just about the dead is it? What if I decided to dig up your dead relatives and start using them in my art installation? That might be a bit distressing to your family and friends, perhaps?

Personally, and honestly, that really wouldn't bother me. My belief is that upon death you start decaying back into dirt. No soul floating around. No hocus pocus associated with the body / bones. It's just a sack of cells waiting to compost.

I can, however, see more easily how someone else would have a problem with that. Are the Mormons using Jewish skeletons in art installations?


I call dibs on this guy's sternum.

One of the legs on desk is just a wee bit to short and I need something to wedge down there.

/TWSS?
 
2012-07-03 02:53:11 PM  

OhLuverly: Theaetetus many people before me have tried to explain it (and have done a far better job, I am no debater) and I'm sure many people after will as well. You've made up your mind that it is an apple regardless of countless people showing you it's an orange. So enjoy your apple sir.


No one has ever yet tried to show me it's an orange. People have denied those screenshots exist; claimed that even though they do exist, they're so incredibly clearly distinguishing those ordinances from those performed for the living, like yourself; and finally, like yourself, have claimed that anyone who's upset by the practice must be wrong and walked away from the debate.

Look, it's no skin off my nose. I think your religion is based on lies and hypocrisy, but that's just my opinion, supported by demonstrable facts and evidence. So, no worries.
 
2012-07-03 02:53:29 PM  

Morpheses: Sticky Hands: Famous Thamas: For me it isn't so much that they perform some silly rite for a dead person. The issue I have with it, is they then claim that person is a member of the church.

Benjamin Franklin? Well he was a member of the Mormon church, it says right there in our records! Same with George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and Pauly Shore.

It reminds me of the spin that gets put on history over the course of time. You know "Benjamin Franklin - First Fireman".

Just because offended people SAY that's what they are doing doesn't mean that IS what they are doing.

They claim the "work" has been done for the person, they do not count the deceased as a convert.

And its farking creepy no matter how you slice it.

/Love these threads so I can fav the apologists in a nice blue shade


Call it creepy or disrespectful, I can totally understand that point of view.

Just don't call it a conversion.
Because they will just say "it's not a conversion", and since it technically isn't, they will be technically right, and everyone will just run in circles yelling at each other.
 
2012-07-03 02:55:10 PM  

Silly Jesus: Corvus: Silly Jesus: Corvus: RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.

What!?!? Everyone must play by Silly Jesus's rules of being offended. No one can be offended different than him. It's not allowed.

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 450x338]

That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying you are not offended by it so no one else should be.

That's stupid.

I'm offended by air. Don't you dare think I'm nuts though. All opinions are equally valid. Amiright?


Well you could do us all a favor and stop breathing it.
 
2012-07-03 02:59:21 PM  
Silly Jesus: "What you said is pretty rational, and I really want to be in your camp, but I just can't make it past the "competing sky wizards" nonsense."

That's just it: you don't have to 'get' anything. You don't have to understand faith (I sure don't). And you don't have to pick a team.

You just have to recognize that most of your fellow humans, across most of the world, for essentially all of recorded history, feel very strongly about their sky wizards and will inflict wholly self-defeating and pointless grudges, blood-feuds and wars upon each other over the topic. And thus it greatly behooves society to recognize limits to acceptable behavior among these groups, when it comes to practice and recognition of their faith and in their interaction with others. Because they will eventually start murdering one another over this shiat. And the people who get hit the hardest in those squabbles are those of us without a sky wizard in the fight.
 
2012-07-03 03:00:44 PM  

Sticky Hands: In both of your examples the death date is clearly shown, the ordinance date is also shown to be after that date. It's quite obvious that this is not the same thing as a choice made by a living breathing person.


Yes, but it's not what the Mormons said is there. They've repeatedly claimed that the records say that the ordinances are performed by proxy. But they don't. They've repeatedly claimed that the records say that the ordinances were done for the deceased. They don't. They've repeated claimed that the records even look different than those of regular Mormons. They don't.

And of course, anyone can look and tell that Anne Frank was baptized after her death... provided they look at that one page. Flip to any of the other pages and it's not evident anymore.

Either the names aren't actually removed from the database, just blocked somehow, or if they do remove them, it's because they consider the important part done and the recording of the incident to be secondary.

I've compared them to internet providers (google and others) before, and for what I feel is very good reason. While google does take steps to block copyright violators, they can't get them all, and they run into the issue where it's difficult for them to tell if a new site is legit or not. When they are informed, they take steps.


Sure, but as I said, if they're deleting records based on what's equivalent to a DMCA complaint, then they're acknowledging that the ceremony has no religious meaning, since they can't retract an offer of salvation. In other words, this is closer to the people who claim abortion is murder and that abortion doctors are murderers... but then condemn clinic bombers. If they truly held those beliefs, then they're condemning people they believe are heroes and saviors. Accordingly, it's unlikely they truly hold those beliefs.

Others seem to be indicating that getting caught doing this can result in a disfellowship. It's my understanding that that would be the second most sever punishment that the church hands out, ranking only after excommunication. How often they actually go that far is a valid question that I don't have the answer to, and since enforcement is everything, that would do more to tell us if the church takes the issue seriously or not.

Agreed. It's like a police internal investigation that consistently never finds any wrongdoing.
 
2012-07-03 03:00:47 PM  
The Road to Hell Heaven is paved with good intentions.

As I understand it, the Mormons believe, along with many Christians, that you can repent your sins and accept Salvation and Lord Jesus right up to Judgment Day. Since all will be resurrected to be judged in the flesh as well as the spirit, this belief entails that you may become a Christian (Mormon) after death. This does away with the theological problem of the righteous heathens who did not hear the gospel in their lifetimes, as well as unbaptized babies, the hard to convert, and people who leave everything important to the very last minute. Without "post-humous" baptism, one of the essential criteria for Salvation (baptism) would be missing for many, while others would not even have the chance of a snowball in Hellfire of being saved due to never accepting the Lord Jesus as their personal Saviour.

It's a nice thought that salvation will be offered retroactively, so to speak, to faithful Jews and righteous heathens, not to mention many indviduals who, through no fault of their own, are damned to perpetual torment because of negligence or ignorance or even malice and aforethought for which they would be very, very sorry if they were given a proper chance to see the errors of their ways.

Atheists for example, have proven extremely hard of hearing which it comes to the gospel for some reason. Standing nekkid before the Throne of God is a last ditch ressort, but better than nothing. Like paying your taxes, you are still OK if your paperwork is time-stamped one second before midnight on Tax Day.

Of course, this is not how people who have their own religious beliefs or no religious beliefs see it. To them, it looks like good-old-fashioned fishing in another man's pond.

I don't think we really have to worry about the details. If the Mormons baptize your ancestors, or even you, it isn't likely to count unless the Mormons are right. You can just ignore them. Be careful not to tick that box, by the way, if you are using Mormon genealogical software. There is a tick box (I don't recall if it is pre-ticked or not) which authorizes them to baptize everybody in your family tree and another which authorizes them to add your ancestors to their non-church data banks, which are the largest store of genealogical information in the world and are buried in a mountain in Utah to be safe from nuclear war and Armageddon.

I suppose that you might be committing a sin if you intentionally allow the Mormons to baptize you or yours posthumously just to be on the safe side. Some religions, like some countries, don't approve of dual citizenship in the Kingdom of God, so to speak. Your lack of faith would appal them.

Personally, I would sooner that the Mormons don't baptize my ancestors unless I choose to become a Mormon and take on the duty of saving my ancestors as well as anybody else who comes to hand.

Jews have a particularly long history of being baptized by force, as noted above, and so they are most likely to object to being christianized without their consent. Muslims no doubt are also learning to resent forced christianization, although they have forced Islam on many peoples in accordance with their own evangelical urges and urgings dating back all the way to Mohammed and the Quiran (spelled variously).

Heathens, of course, are fair game for everybody to exploit, torture, kill, forceably convert, etc., especially the blacker varieties armed with fruit.

According to a certain type of religionist, we are all God's Chillun, but some of us are more God's Chullun than others. His stamp of approval is the whiteness of our skins, not the whiteness of our hearts, so these people think.

Personally, I am more inclined to William Blake's party on this one. It may be a bit maudlin, but the poet meant well when he wrote:

The Little Black Boy
By William Blake 1757-1827

My mother bore me in the southern wild,
And I am black, but O! my soul is white;
White as an angel is the English child,
But I am black, as if bereav'd of light.

My mother taught me underneath a tree,
And sitting down before the heat of day,
She took me on her lap and kissed me,
And pointing to the east, began to say:

"Look on the rising sun: there God does live,
And gives his light, and gives his heat away;
And flowers and trees and beasts and men receive
Comfort in morning, joy in the noonday.

And we are put on earth a little space,
That we may learn to bear the beams of love;
And these black bodies and this sunburnt face
Is but a cloud, and like a shady grove.

For when our souls have learn'd the heat to bear,
The cloud will vanish; we shall hear his voice,
Saying: 'Come out from the grove, my love and care,
And round my golden tent like lambs rejoice.' "

Thus did my mother say, and kissed me;
And thus I say to little English boy,
When I from black and he from white cloud free,
And round the tent of God like lambs we joy,

I'll shade him from the heat, till he can bear
To lean in joy upon our father's knee;
And then I'll stand and stroke his silver hair,
And be like him, and he will then love me.

Indubitably this poem has been the joy* of English schoolchildren for nearly two hundred years. They really should make children memorize more poetry like they used to in former times. Everything I know by heart, I taught myself.

*And sport.
 
2012-07-03 03:01:37 PM  

Dr Dreidel: If LDS had told everyone to fark off back iattractive and successful African-Americanather


O.o

"If LDS had told everyone to fark off back in nineteen ninety five rather than acquiesce..."

// Drew hates numbers now?
 
2012-07-03 03:02:47 PM  

Sticky Hands: Morpheses: Sticky Hands: Famous Thamas: For me it isn't so much that they perform some silly rite for a dead person. The issue I have with it, is they then claim that person is a member of the church.

Benjamin Franklin? Well he was a member of the Mormon church, it says right there in our records! Same with George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and Pauly Shore.

It reminds me of the spin that gets put on history over the course of time. You know "Benjamin Franklin - First Fireman".

Just because offended people SAY that's what they are doing doesn't mean that IS what they are doing.

They claim the "work" has been done for the person, they do not count the deceased as a convert.

And its farking creepy no matter how you slice it.

/Love these threads so I can fav the apologists in a nice blue shade

Call it creepy or disrespectful, I can totally understand that point of view.

Just don't call it a conversion.
Because they will just say "it's not a conversion", and since it technically isn't, they will be technically right, and everyone will just run in circles yelling at each other.


All I called it was creepy. Because it is. It is also disrespectful and rude, especially since people are only supposed to be doing this for their ancestors, and we both know that's not happening.
 
2012-07-03 03:08:47 PM  

DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: DeltaPunch: Silly Jesus: Perhaps I just can't comprehend it because I don't have a sky wizard, other than the tasty, tasty FSM, of course.

It makes perfect sense for atheists, but try to imagine other religious people that DO believe in souls and the afterlife. Maybe for them there exists an uneasiness about people from one religion screwing around with the souls and afterlife of your beloved ones. Surely you can see how that might create some uneasiness...

Sort of. I have a very loose grasp on it. If I were able to fully grasp religion, I'd be religious...I guess. It's sort of the same concept. I can't really fathom spirit people floating around and other such nonsense, so it's hard for me to truly understand how one could insult a spirit and its family.

It's like if we were walking down the sidewalk together and happened upon a schizophrenic guy screaming random nonsense and I said "WTF?" and you said, "I know, but can't you at least sort of see where he's coming from?"

I don't think it's like that at all. You don't have to be religious to understand the importance of religion to others. I mean, take that absolutely unshakable faith you have that God Yhor doesn't exist and try to imagine how someone can believe that Thor DOES exist with that same unshakeable faith. Not having the same empathic connection with a certain subject doesn't preclude one from understanding arguments founded on that subject; it simply prevents you from believing in it the same way.


FTFY.

/thor
 
2012-07-03 03:09:35 PM  
Mitt isn't going to Israel to apologize for anything. He doesn't give a shiat about Holocaust victims. He's going to Israel so he can come back and tell the nutty fundy Republican base that he believes their crazy end times crap (which will be a lie), so please donate to his campaign.
 
2012-07-03 03:10:49 PM  
If the Mormons really believed they were offering eternal salvation, then (a) they wouldn't retract it, and (b) they wouldn't publish it.

This is more like the person who, knowing you disagree with their religion, tells you to your face that they'll "pray for your soul."
 
2012-07-03 03:13:59 PM  

Theaetetus: Yes, but it's not what the Mormons said is there. They've repeatedly claimed that the records say that the ordinances are performed by proxy. But they don't. They've repeatedly claimed that the records say that the ordinances were done for the deceased. They don't. They've repeated claimed that the records even look different than those of regular Mormons. They don't.

And of course, anyone can look and tell that Anne Frank was baptized after her death... provided they look at that one page. Flip to any of the other pages and it's not evident anymore.


I'll have to check that out. I've seen regular member records (though I've never looked up someone who was a member on that site) and I remember them looking quite different. But days go by, things change, and I remember the 80s as awesome... so my memory isn't always perfect.


Theaetetus: Sure, but as I said, if they're deleting records based on what's equivalent to a DMCA complaint, then they're acknowledging that the ceremony has no religious meaning, since they can't retract an offer of salvation. In other words, this is closer to the people who claim abortion is murder and that abortion doctors are murderers... but then condemn clinic bombers. If they truly held those beliefs, then they're condemning people they believe are heroes and saviors. Accordingly, it's unlikely they truly hold those beliefs.

Yeah there is something to that. I guess it all depends on how much importance they put on recording of the event vs the actual event. An argument could be made that the recording of the event is more for man's benefit, to prevent him from doing the same thing over and over again. And that in God's eyes, the offering is there to be accepted if the person chooses. Religious people can get quite good at the mental gymnastics.
 
2012-07-03 03:15:16 PM  

brantgoose: They really should make children memorize more poetry like they used to in former times.


Absolutely. It's good for the mind, develops your memory and impresses the girls. Well, as long as it doesn't begin, "There once was a man from Nantucket".

Also, the only acceptable form of prose poetry is Haiku. Anything else is like playing tennis without a net.
 
2012-07-03 03:16:52 PM  

BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 11 million Mormons died for their faith.


Slightly off topic, but I find some irony in the fact that Jews were ~54.5% of the victims of Nazi genocide, yet we get all the attention, and then people biatch about how "the Jews" (or "Israel") "use" the Holocaust to avoid any responsibility for the shiatty things we/they do.

Perhaps if, instead of "6 million Jews", the refrain taught in schools was "11 million people", the world could abandon that stupid, stupid line of thought.

// yes, I've had people goggle when I reminded them of the rest of the victims
// as in, "had not heard of the other genocided groups"
// public school - whaddaya gonna do, 'mirite?
 
2012-07-03 03:24:09 PM  

Theaetetus: If the Mormons really believed they were offering eternal salvation, then (a) they wouldn't retract it, and (b) they wouldn't publish it.


I'm not sure it's meant to be published so much as referenced.

It's a small difference I know, and I probably didn't use the exact right wording, but I think the point of the archive is more to let Nefi know that Great Great Great Great Grandpa Gonzales has had his work done, so check on Grandma Andersen's side and see what needs to be done over there.



This is more like the person who, knowing you disagree with their religion, tells you to your face that they'll "pray for your soul."


Yeah it is a lot like that, and I've heard more than a few stories of saying more or less that to their parents/spouses.
 
2012-07-03 03:26:03 PM  

Sticky Hands: Others seem to be indicating that getting caught doing this can result in a disfellowship. It's my understanding that that would be the second most sever punishment that the church hands out, ranking only after excommunication.



Apparently you've never heard of "Blood Atonement".

QUOTE:

"In Mormonism, blood atonement is a controversial doctrine that teaches that murder is so heinous that the atonement of Jesus does not apply. Thus, to atone for these sins the perpetrators must have their blood shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering...

[...]

"In a full Mormon theocracy, blood atonement practice would be implemented by the state as a penal measure."

[...]

"The blood atonement doctrine was the impetus behind laws in the territory and state of Utah allowing capital punishment by firing squad or decapitation. Though people in Utah were executed by firing squad for capital crimes under the assumption that this would aid their salvation, there is no clear evidence that Young or other top theocratic Mormon leaders enforced blood atonement for apostasy or non-capital crimes like miscegenation.[1] There is, however, some evidence that the doctrine was enforced a few times at the local church level without regard to secular judicial procedure.[2] The rhetoric of blood atonement may have contributed to a culture of violence leading to the Mountain Meadows massacre.[3]

END QUOTE


Is America ready for a Full Mormon Theocracy?
 
2012-07-03 03:31:48 PM  

Silly Jesus: That bastard, shiatting all over all of those slave holders beliefs for his own political gain!

- All beliefs / opinions are equally valid and should be respected, amiright?


or maybe some of us think that it's not cool to shiat all over someone else's beliefs solely to forward your own political agenda

are you trolling or just stupid?
 
2012-07-03 03:40:02 PM  

ringersol: Silly Jesus: "What you said is pretty rational, and I really want to be in your camp, but I just can't make it past the "competing sky wizards" nonsense."

That's just it: you don't have to 'get' anything. You don't have to understand faith (I sure don't). And you don't have to pick a team.

You just have to recognize that most of your fellow humans, across most of the world, for essentially all of recorded history, feel very strongly about their sky wizards and will inflict wholly self-defeating and pointless grudges, blood-feuds and wars upon each other over the topic. And thus it greatly behooves society to recognize limits to acceptable behavior among these groups, when it comes to practice and recognition of their faith and in their interaction with others. Because they will eventually start murdering one another over this shiat. And the people who get hit the hardest in those squabbles are those of us without a sky wizard in the fight.


Fair enough. Well said. Your position is reasonable, I'm just not quite there.
 
2012-07-03 03:45:18 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Silly Jesus: That bastard, shiatting all over all of those slave holders beliefs for his own political gain!

- All beliefs / opinions are equally valid and should be respected, amiright?

or maybe some of us think that it's not cool to shiat all over someone else's beliefs solely to forward your own political agenda

are you trolling or just stupid?


Just stupid, evidently, because I don't know what you're rambling on about. And you're obviously my intellectual superior.
 
2012-07-03 03:48:20 PM  

Dr Dreidel: BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 11 million Mormons died for their faith.


While I suppose such a thing might be possible, I don't think it is likely nor the intention. They were doing baptisms for the dead long before the war. (not with the names of Holocaust victims obviously)

Also, as I posted before, they have their own history with their own special brand of persecution, and while it has been exaggerated and the things they did to provoke such treatment ignored, it is very much enshrined in the myth of who they are.

If I may be so bold, I would compare it to Jews trying to co-opt the casualties of Maoist China. I suppose it would get some numbers up... but you have your own history filled with very real and independently verifiable persecution against you.. why bother?



Slightly off topic, but I find some irony in the fact that Jews were ~54.5% of the victims of Nazi genocide, yet we get all the attention, and then people biatch about how "the Jews" (or "Israel") "use" the Holocaust to avoid any responsibility for the shiatty things we/they do.

Perhaps if, instead of "6 million Jews", the refrain taught in schools was "11 million people", the world could abandon that stupid, stupid line of thought.

// yes, I've had people goggle when I reminded them of the rest of the victims
// as in, "had not heard of the other genocided groups"
// public school - whaddaya gonna do, 'mirite?


I think the schools actually do teach the 11-12 million number, or at least they used to. I know I knew about it long before I jumped on the interbubes. I'm not sure how much it would help, since the deniers are just going to move the goal posts, and don't really care anyway, but it's always good to have a properly informed population.
 
2012-07-03 03:49:20 PM  

Amos Quito: Is America ready for a Full Mormon Theocracy?


As ready as it is for Sharia Law I wager.
 
2012-07-03 03:50:26 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


I think I can explain this one for ya. Suppose that after Richard Dawkins dies some church posthumously baptizes him and records this in its files. In a couple of hundred years the "fact" that Richard Dawkins was a Christian is trotted out with documented evidence to discredit his atheist ideas. Does that thought annoy you?

Or suppose that an atheist soldier from WWI was drafted after the fact into some religion and they began to preach that he could only have done the things he did or survived the horrors of war because of his faith in God. Would that be vexing? Would it be worse if this happened many years after his death and there was no concrete way of refuting their claim?

Essentially this is a big deal because the person claiming the dead is hijacking their legacy, literally the only thing they have left on this earth, and twisting it to fit their agenda.
 
2012-07-03 03:57:40 PM  
What the relatves who care about the stupid postmortem baptism want to happen to their deceased:

i3.kym-cdn.com


What the relatves who care about the stupid postmortem baptism are afraid will happen instead:

cdn.smosh.com


What most everyone else is doing:

www.lowbird.com
 
2012-07-03 04:05:10 PM  

tarnok: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

I think I can explain this one for ya. Suppose that after Richard Dawkins dies some church posthumously baptizes him and records this in its files. In a couple of hundred years the "fact" that Richard Dawkins was a Christian is trotted out with documented evidence to discredit his atheist ideas. Does that thought annoy you?

So, basically, Mormons shouldn't do this because stupid people, and those too lazy to / unable to do research may be baffled at some later date?

If the Mormons were wiping the internet / libraries / various archives clean of Richard Dawkins' thoughts and replacing them with Mormon nonsense, I'd completely agree with you. Putting him on a list on a silly website is hardly the same.

 
2012-07-03 04:07:29 PM  

RexTalionis: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

There's a long history of Christians forcibly converting Jews or otherwise converting them against their will, sometimes under threat of death or torture. In the late Medieval period, the Catholic church kidnapped a bunch of Jewish boys and forcibly baptized them and sent them to live with Christian families.

So, with that cultural background, you might see how Jews might not exactly warm to the idea of some Christian offshoot posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims.


this.
 
2012-07-03 04:17:15 PM  

Silly Jesus: Putting him on a list on a silly website is hardly the same.


If the list was titled "People who were not Mormons but have been baptized posthumously," then I'd agree. Or even if the list had annotations like "Posthumously baptized" or "baptized by proxy".
But when the list simply says "baptized," and dates are only shown when looking at one page of several, then it starts looking suspicious. Furthermore, when the fix is that easy, what is it saying that the Mormons haven't done so? Are they really saying that they're so incompetent at website design that they can't add a flag indicating a posthumous baptism? Or is it more of a "we don't think you should be offended, so therefore, we're not going to take even the teeniest step to avoid offending you"?
Because if so, that's a major dick move.
 
2012-07-03 04:17:45 PM  
Silly Jesus
So, basically, Mormons shouldn't do this because stupid people, and those too lazy to / unable to do research may be baffled at some later date?

If the Mormons were wiping the internet / libraries / various archives clean of Richard Dawkins' thoughts and replacing them with Mormon nonsense, I'd completely agree with you. Putting him on a list on a silly website is hardly the same.

I think you're missing some stuff about how history actually works. There are not big flags that say "this is factual" and "this is propaganda." Someone who does their research in the situation I described above would find a great deal of evidence first, that he had been atheist, and second, that he had converted at some point. There does not even have to be malicious intent for this to occur. In my example Snidely Whiplash twirls his mustaches as he tells everyone that Dawkins converted. In reality this could just as easily occur from a researcher finding fragmentary records in the disused church library and making the talk show rounds with the stunning revelation that Dawkins disavowed atheism on his deathbed.

Once it's written down it's part of the stuff you research. If people are permitted to record this sort of stuff unchallenged then it becomes history. The fact that people are speaking out against this makes it harder for such a confusion to happen, but you seem to think that people shouldn't complain about this. What then would the future scholar research that would tell him that the record of Dawkin's conversion was false?
 
2012-07-03 04:23:11 PM  
Fun how a headline can completely dominate the content of the discussion while the article is almost entirely ignored. "Hey, I've decided we need another circle jerk of bashing XYZ. I'll find an article, ignore its contents, and write a headline that basically orders, 'You will now bash XYZ'." Nice.
 
2012-07-03 04:25:04 PM  

treesloth: Fun how a headline can completely dominate the content of the discussion while the article is almost entirely ignored. "Hey, I've decided we need another circle jerk of bashing XYZ. I'll find an article, ignore its contents, and write a headline that basically orders, 'You will now bash XYZ'." Nice.


yeah but the article is pretty boring
 
2012-07-03 04:26:11 PM  

Voiceofreason01: treesloth: Fun how a headline can completely dominate the content of the discussion while the article is almost entirely ignored. "Hey, I've decided we need another circle jerk of bashing XYZ. I'll find an article, ignore its contents, and write a headline that basically orders, 'You will now bash XYZ'." Nice.

yeah but the article is pretty boring


So is Mitt.
 
2012-07-03 04:27:45 PM  

Theaetetus: If the list was titled "People who were not Mormons but have been baptized posthumously," then I'd agree. Or even if the list had annotations like "Posthumously baptized" or "baptized by proxy".


Doesn't the "Died: 1990" "Baptized: 2008" sort of take care of that part?

Nobody has the right to not be offended.
 
2012-07-03 04:30:12 PM  

tarnok: I think you're missing some stuff about how history actually works. There are not big flags that say "this is factual" and "this is propaganda." Someone who does their research in the situation I described above would find a great deal of evidence first, that he had been atheist, and second, that he had converted at some point. There does not even have to be malicious intent for this to occur. In my example Snidely Whiplash twirls his mustaches as he tells everyone that Dawkins converted. In reality this could just as easily occur from a researcher finding fragmentary records in the disused church library and making the talk show rounds with the stunning revelation that Dawkins disavowed atheism on his deathbed.


All of his books in various libraries / homes / museums + millions of videos, youtube and otherwise + newspaper articles / fark threads etc. + various movies VS the Mormon website. I'm not too concerned.
 
2012-07-03 04:33:10 PM  

Silly Jesus: Doesn't the "Died: 1990" "Baptized: 2008" sort of take care of that part?


I think he was told there would be no math...
 
2012-07-03 04:35:57 PM  

Voiceofreason01: yeah but the article is pretty boring


That helps... doesn't distract from the headline!
 
2012-07-03 04:39:11 PM  

Silly Jesus: Theaetetus: If the list was titled "People who were not Mormons but have been baptized posthumously," then I'd agree. Or even if the list had annotations like "Posthumously baptized" or "baptized by proxy".

Doesn't the "Died: 1990" "Baptized: 2008" sort of take care of that part?

Nobody has the right to not be offended.



Being offended can be both fun AND profitable!

Some folks seem to live for it.
 
2012-07-03 04:41:42 PM  

Silly Jesus: Theaetetus: If the list was titled "People who were not Mormons but have been baptized posthumously," then I'd agree. Or even if the list had annotations like "Posthumously baptized" or "baptized by proxy".

Doesn't the "Died: 1990" "Baptized: 2008" sort of take care of that part?


This is why it sometimes helps to read the next sentence:
"But when the list simply says "baptized," and dates are only shown when looking at one page of several, then it starts looking suspicious."

So, no, it doesn't.

Nobody has the right to not be offended.

Which is why the Mormons don't have a right to be offended when I say that their actions in this matter show them to be dishonest hypocrites who don't even believe their own espoused doctrine.
 
2012-07-03 04:43:25 PM  

Silly Jesus: But they're dead...Can you enslave dead people?


fc00.deviantart.net

Yes...
 
2012-07-03 04:44:42 PM  
Why is Romney campaigning in Israel?
 
2012-07-03 04:56:08 PM  

Theaetetus: "But when the list simply says "baptized," and dates are only shown when looking at one page of several, then it starts looking suspicious."


Seriously, if that is what you're complaining about, you can be safely ignored. The purpose of the site is genealogy, not satisfying your paranoia. All of the information is there, accessible in about 2 clicks for anyone that wishes to determine if a person was baptized by proxy or not.
 
2012-07-03 05:00:17 PM  

doyner: vernonFL: I would like Romney to explain why Israel's universal healthcare system - which pays for abortions, no less - is so evil, and why we would support a country that has such an evil healthcare system.

Our relationship doesn't work that way. We are beholden to them. Not the other way around.



Yes of course, because of all their petro dollars they control the WORLD!

/amusing how the richest most powerful nation is somehow a slave to a tiny country thousands of miles away with little real power
 
2012-07-03 05:02:25 PM  

Supes: FWIW, the LDS church has very explicitly come out against the above-described baptisms. When it happens, it's rogue members who are initiating it. Can't judge a whole religion by what a couple of bad actors do.



citation needed
 
2012-07-03 05:04:08 PM  

Amos Quito: Romney, an Eye on Campaign, Plans a Trip to Israel

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x278]

You'll need plenty of this, Mitt



I knew when the Jew whistle was blown, you would magically show up again

Fark's most un-favorite anti-Semite
 
2012-07-03 05:08:06 PM  
I'd like to know why Mormon's care about Israel? Shouldn't he be visting Egypt? After all, their religion basically said most of the Bible was wrong, and based most of their beliefs off ancient Egyptian history.

I'd also like to know why idiots still keep parroting the idea that Israel controls American politics. The leader of Oman just bought a 100 million dollar home in New York City. Now tell me who really has money and power in this world? Sounds like a bunch of idiots who can't figure out OPEC has more control that any Jewish PAC could dream of.
 
2012-07-03 05:08:09 PM  

treesloth: Seriously, if that is what you're complaining about, you can be safely ignored.


This message was brought to you by the Church of Latter-Day Saints: the Dicks.
 
2012-07-03 05:19:16 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Why is Romney campaigning in Israel?



For the same reason that Willie Sutton robbed banks?
 
2012-07-03 05:23:38 PM  

intelligent comment below: I'd like to know why Mormon's care about Israel? Shouldn't he be visting Egypt? After all, their religion basically said most of the Bible was wrong, and based most of their beliefs off ancient Egyptian history.



Says ICB, who knows nothing about Mormonism...


intelligent comment below: I'd also like to know why idiots still keep parroting the idea that Israel controls American politics. The leader of Oman just bought a 100 million dollar home in New York City. Now tell me who really has money and power in this world? Sounds like a bunch of idiots who can't figure out OPEC has more control that any Jewish PAC could dream of.



...or anything else.
 
2012-07-03 05:32:37 PM  
Will Mitt be wearing his magic temple underwear on the trip?
 
2012-07-03 05:35:46 PM  

Amos Quito: Silly Jesus: Theaetetus: If the list was titled "People who were not Mormons but have been baptized posthumously," then I'd agree. Or even if the list had annotations like "Posthumously baptized" or "baptized by proxy".

Doesn't the "Died: 1990" "Baptized: 2008" sort of take care of that part?

Nobody has the right to not be offended.


Being offended can be both fun AND profitable!

Some folks seem to live for it.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-03 05:37:52 PM  

Theaetetus: This message was brought to you by the Church of Latter-Day Saints: the Dicks.


Does mindlessly lashing out make you feel better than admitting you've got nothing? Apparently so.
 
2012-07-03 05:38:23 PM  
That's right, Mitt. Appeal to the doomsday-cultists who think they can trick God into ending the world ahead of schedule by artificially creating the signs of the apocalypse.
 
2012-07-03 05:39:05 PM  

Theaetetus: Silly Jesus: Theaetetus: If the list was titled "People who were not Mormons but have been baptized posthumously," then I'd agree. Or even if the list had annotations like "Posthumously baptized" or "baptized by proxy".

Doesn't the "Died: 1990" "Baptized: 2008" sort of take care of that part?

This is why it sometimes helps to read the next sentence:
"But when the list simply says "baptized," and dates are only shown when looking at one page of several, then it starts looking suspicious."

So, no, it doesn't.

If someone was genuinely interested in the truth, they could probably tolerate clicking through all of the pages.

Nobody has the right to not be offended.

Which is why the Mormons don't have a right to be offended when I say that their actions in this matter show them to be dishonest hypocrites who don't even believe their own espoused doctrine.

Sounds good to me. I certainly wouldn't argue that the Mormons need any sympathy here. It's an equal opportunity retard-fest. Grown people fighting over who's imaginary friend better suits their dead relatives.

 
2012-07-03 05:40:39 PM  

treesloth: Theaetetus: This message was brought to you by the Church of Latter-Day Saints: the Dicks.

Does mindlessly lashing out make you feel better than admitting you've got nothing? Apparently so.


You haven't addressed any of my points, but merely said "that's what people are offended about? Well, fark them," so not only have you got nothing, you're actually admitting that all of the criticism is spot on and you just don't care.

Which I guess is something.
 
2012-07-03 05:42:33 PM  

intelligent comment below: Supes: FWIW, the LDS church has very explicitly come out against the above-described baptisms. When it happens, it's rogue members who are initiating it. Can't judge a whole religion by what a couple of bad actors do.


citation needed


It's not that tough...
 
2012-07-03 05:47:30 PM  

Theaetetus: You haven't addressed any of my points


In fact, I did, you just didn't like it. Having to click twice to answer the question of whether the baptism was by proxy or not isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple. Yes, it could be altered. For that matter, it might be at some point, but here's the thing: the purpose of the website is to do genealogy, not to publicize how baptisms were done. So, to find out how a baptism was done, you have to click twice, not once. Yes, if that's too much, then I guess we're just never going to agree. Oh, well.
 
2012-07-03 05:49:09 PM  
Maybe to appeal to the Jewish voters, Mitt could get circumcised in Israel,.
The leftovers could be used to make a suit.
 
2012-07-03 05:49:24 PM  

Theaetetus: You haven't addressed any of my points


Oh, and pointing out that I just don't care what you think is not the same as conceding that you have a point. Past a certain point, if an person's complaints are sufficiently vacuous, I feel no more need to point out their errors than I do to argue with the Time Cube guy.
 
2012-07-03 05:55:30 PM  

Amos Quito: Says ICB, who knows nothing about Mormonism...


http://www.biblequery.org/OtherBeliefs/Mormonism/BookOfAbraham.htm

The Origin of the Scrolls

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and translator of the Book of Mormon, obtained some ancient Egyptian scrolls in July, 1835. Joseph stated they contained the writings of Abraham, and his divinely inspired translation of them became Mormon scripture.
 
2012-07-03 05:57:16 PM  

intelligent comment below: Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and translator of the Book of Mormon, obtained some ancient Egyptian scrolls in July, 1835. Joseph stated they contained the writings of Abraham, and his divinely inspired translation of them became Mormon scripture.


Awesome! Now you need to show that "most of their beliefs" come from that.
 
2012-07-03 05:59:09 PM  

treesloth: Theaetetus: You haven't addressed any of my points

In fact, I did, you just didn't like it. Having to click twice to answer the question of whether the baptism was by proxy or not isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple.


Altering the page isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple, and it would obviate all of the complaints.
But that's too much for the Mormons. Which makes one ask what their real motive is.
 
2012-07-03 06:23:49 PM  

treesloth: intelligent comment below: Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and translator of the Book of Mormon, obtained some ancient Egyptian scrolls in July, 1835. Joseph stated they contained the writings of Abraham, and his divinely inspired translation of them became Mormon scripture.

Awesome! Now you need to show that "most of their beliefs" come from that.



No, I totally forgot the passages in the real Bible that mention Kobol! Stupid me

Dumbass Mormon shill
 
2012-07-03 06:25:07 PM  
Or that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Or Magic Underpants. etc etc etc etc etc

Guess I gotta go back to the Torah, silly me
 
2012-07-03 06:35:46 PM  

Theaetetus: treesloth: Theaetetus: You haven't addressed any of my points

In fact, I did, you just didn't like it. Having to click twice to answer the question of whether the baptism was by proxy or not isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple.

Altering the page isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple, and it would obviate all of the complaints.
But that's too much for the Mormons. Which makes one ask what their real motive is.


So the website created / maintained / published etc. by the Mormons should conform to the desires of the Jews, otherwise they are assholes? The primary purpose of the site isn't to placate the Jews. The primary purpose of the site is accessed with one click. The purpose that the Jews are after is accessed with two clicks. It doesn't seem appropriate to you that the people who created / own etc. the site don't modify it so that something that is two clicks away comes up as the primary page, even if that page isn't what they intended to be the primary page?
 
2012-07-03 06:37:33 PM  

Theaetetus: Altering the page isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple, and it would obviate all of the complaints.
But that's too much for the Mormons. Which makes one ask what their real motive is.


By all means, let us know once you discover the insidious designs behind making users click twice instead of once.

intelligent comment below: No, I totally forgot the passages in the real Bible that mention Kobol! Stupid me

Dumbass Mormon shill


It's "Kolob", not "Kobol". And that falls far, far short of the "most of their beliefs" standard that you set for yourself. However, it's now pretty obvious that your intention is personal attacks, not legitimate disagreement, so I think I'll bow out now.
 
2012-07-03 06:55:55 PM  

intelligent comment below: Or that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Or Magic Underpants. etc etc etc etc etc

Guess I gotta go back to the Torah, silly me



As if you ever left, lol!

Talmudy blues?
 
2012-07-03 07:06:41 PM  

treesloth: It's "Kolob", not "Kobol". And that falls far, far short of the "most of their beliefs" standard that you set for yourself. However, it's now pretty obvious that your intention is personal attacks, not legitimate disagreement, so I think I'll bow out now.



Huh? Your savior MADE UP history based on his claimed reading of EGYPTIAN SCROLLS

And yet you still call yourselves "true original Christians" when your views are based more on ancient Egyptian mythology than any Jewish writing or even Jesus'

Personal attacks? Yeah damn my personal attacks reminding you that your religion is an Egyptian religion NOT Christianity and that the founder and all his family members were convicted of fraud multiple times

The truth hurts, it's no wonder none of you can ever take any constructive criticism.
 
2012-07-03 07:07:34 PM  

Amos Quito: intelligent comment below: Or that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Or Magic Underpants. etc etc etc etc etc

Guess I gotta go back to the Torah, silly me


As if you ever left, lol!

Talmudy blues?



Why are you shilling on behalf of Mormon's? Do you view everyone as "better" than the evil Jews who rule the world?
 
2012-07-03 07:23:42 PM  

intelligent comment below: treesloth: It's "Kolob", not "Kobol". And that falls far, far short of the "most of their beliefs" standard that you set for yourself. However, it's now pretty obvious that your intention is personal attacks, not legitimate disagreement, so I think I'll bow out now.


Huh? Your savior MADE UP history based on his claimed reading of EGYPTIAN SCROLLS

And yet you still call yourselves "true original Christians" when your views are based more on ancient Egyptian mythology than any Jewish writing or even Jesus'

Personal attacks? Yeah damn my personal attacks reminding you that your religion is an Egyptian religion NOT Christianity and that the founder and all his family members were convicted of fraud multiple times

The truth hurts, it's no wonder none of you can ever take any constructive criticism.


I asked you one thing: Show that "most of their beliefs" came from the source you claimed, the Egyptian scrolls. Until you do that, everything you say in reply to me is evasion and backpedaling. Now, can you demonstrate your assertion or not?
 
2012-07-03 07:24:05 PM  

treesloth: Theaetetus: Altering the page isn't too much to ask. It's very, very simple, and it would obviate all of the complaints.
But that's too much for the Mormons. Which makes one ask what their real motive is.

By all means, let us know once you discover the insidious designs behind making users click twice instead of once.

intelligent comment below: No, I totally forgot the passages in the real Bible that mention Kobol! Stupid me

Dumbass Mormon shill

It's "Kolob", not "Kobol". And that falls far, far short of the "most of their beliefs" standard that you set for yourself. However, it's now pretty obvious that your intention is personal attacks, not legitimate disagreement, so I think I'll bow out now.


You're fighting really hard to defend people who are trying their best to bring everyone into their fold, willingly or not, and have to resort to converting dead people to do it. Sorry, but Mormoms are a special brand of crazy.
 
2012-07-03 07:26:42 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: ... and have to resort to converting dead people to do it.


Mormons (like me) don't even think that's possible. We might be a special kind of crazy, but we appreciate having our craziness properly stated.
 
2012-07-03 07:29:10 PM  

treesloth: Keizer_Ghidorah: ... and have to resort to converting dead people to do it.

Mormons (like me) don't even think that's possible. We might be a special kind of crazy, but we appreciate having our craziness properly stated.


Sorry, quoted wrong. That should have included:

Keizer_Ghidorah: ... bring everyone into their fold, willingly or not...

 
2012-07-03 07:34:11 PM  

intelligent comment below: Amos Quito: intelligent comment below: Or that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Or Magic Underpants. etc etc etc etc etc

Guess I gotta go back to the Torah, silly me


As if you ever left, lol!

Talmudy blues?


Why are you shilling on behalf of Mormon's? Do you view everyone as "better" than the evil Jews who rule the world?



ME shill for one sky-god-klan over another?

Heaven forbid!

But if you want to make fun of their fantasies (while clinging to your own), at least try to learn a bit about said fantasies.

It's KOLOB, not Kobol.

The "funny underwear" was "borrowed" from Masonry (as were many of their weird Temple Rites).

Joseph Smith was either raving mad or a shrewd charlatan (or both), but he was quite successful, wasn't he?

The Book of Mormon is a laughable (and very poorly written) fairy tale that contradicts all early American history, archeology, etc- yet millions of the Faithful continue to swear by it.

Brigham Young was the true Mormon genius: He took over the church in a coup, led the Saints into the desert (where he planned to form his own nation), organized and ruled the church, which he built into an extremely powerful, wealthy and efficient corporate machine that functions with its army of Mobots to this day...

And soon we'll have one as president!

If all this seems crazy, it is.

But then so is the Bible / Torah, and the other kooky faiths they spawned.

No?
 
2012-07-03 07:51:26 PM  

treesloth: I asked you one thing: Show that "most of their beliefs" came from the source you claimed, the Egyptian scrolls. Until you do that, everything you say in reply to me is evasion and backpedaling. Now, can you demonstrate your assertion or not?



The religion is based off the scrolls, he found them, translated them, then magically lost them and that created a religion. Then wrote a whole new Bible.

If that doesn't show the religion believes in the Egyptian scrolls more than Christianity and its own Bible then I am sure you have no problem just using a real Bible in your church, right? Since you are ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS and all.

You can't accept the truth, that's typical of your cult. You don't use the Old Testament that Jesus followed, you know, REAL JEWS/CHRISTIANS, your cult leaders decided to write their own inserting Egyptian mythology and ancient alien garbage based on nothing but a known fraudsters delusional grandiose dreams.

Maybe you just should have left, there is no debating a cult member.

/Just playing semantics and questioning me without any arguments on your side doesn't actually mean you're trying to debate anything. It means you're desperate not to show your derp cards.
 
2012-07-03 07:52:06 PM  
Just read up some more on Mormonism on Wiki. I knew a good bit about it, and had seen the South Park episode...but holy farking FSM, these people are nuts. I'm actually terrified of these goobers on the bikes now. They have to be quite mentally unstable to believe this stuff. They should be in an asylum, not out in public and around children.
 
2012-07-03 08:24:57 PM  

OhLuverly: If it's been said once, it's been said a thousand times. Posthumous baptism does not in any way shape or form make these people a part of the Mormon church. It is clear to see in the database that the rite was done after death and in no way can be confused with them converting during their life. Posthumous baptism is an invitation to them after their death to accept the gospel if they so chose, as they may not have been given the opportunity to do so in life. That's it. Take off your tin foil hats.


That may be true--that it doesn't make them Mormons--but it's still an affront to their survivors who know they had the "opportunity" as you say and didn't take it because they DIDN'T BELIEVE IT. Many Jews believe that baptism is a denial of the religion of their fathers, which is why Jews in the Holocaust refused to convert even if it would have saved their lives--because that was their belief.

You can't just go around saying "We'll give you one more chance not to be a Jew/Muslim/atheist (you poor deluded soul)" and expect the genuine believers of that faith not to be really really pissed at you.
 
2012-07-03 08:37:11 PM  

intelligent comment below: treesloth: I asked you one thing: Show that "most of their beliefs" came from the source you claimed, the Egyptian scrolls. Until you do that, everything you say in reply to me is evasion and backpedaling. Now, can you demonstrate your assertion or not?


The religion is based off the scrolls, he found them, translated them, then magically lost them and that created a religion. Then wrote a whole new Bible.



1. They weren't "scrolls", they were PLATES - Golden Plates, to be precise

www.utlm.org

2. He didn't "find" them. They were SHOWN to him by an angel / giant white salamander (depends on version)
3. He translated them with the help of "peep stones" - the "Urim and Thummim"
4. He didn't "lose them", they were taken away to confuse non-believers like you
5. The Book of Mormon is not a "new Bible" (though Smith did create an "inspired translation" of the Old and New Testaments).


intelligent comment below: If that doesn't show the religion believes in the Egyptian scrolls more than Christianity and its own Bible then I am sure you have no problem just using a real Bible in your church, right? Since you are ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS and all.



6. Golden Plates were NEVER claimed to have been written in Egyptian
7. Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible ALL THE TIME. They just spice it up with the BOM, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Abraham (LOL!) and "revelations" given to them via their Latter Day prophets.


intelligent comment below: You can't accept the truth, that's typical of your cult.



True - as it is of YOUR (older but just as silly) cult, I might add...


intelligent comment below: You don't use the Old Testament that Jesus followed, you know



Yes they do.


intelligent comment below: you know, REAL JEWS/CHRISTIANS, your cult leaders decided to write their own inserting Egyptian mythology and ancient alien garbage based on nothing but a known fraudsters delusional grandiose dreams.



Dude, the fact that your myths have more miles on them doesn't make them any less nutty than theirs.


intelligent comment below: Maybe you just should have left, there is no debating a cult member.



New cult, old cult - crazy religion is crazy - all are farking cancers and liabilities on humanity. They were invented to control and pit one group against another, and have caused more pain, suffering and death than any disease I can think of.

Maybe it's time we just dropped this superstitious bullshiat and moved on as human beings.

No?
 
2012-07-03 08:39:25 PM  

intelligent comment below: treesloth: I asked you one thing: Show that "most of their beliefs" came from the source you claimed, the Egyptian scrolls. Until you do that, everything you say in reply to me is evasion and backpedaling. Now, can you demonstrate your assertion or not?


The religion is based off the scrolls, he found them, translated them, then magically lost them and that created a religion. Then wrote a whole new Bible.

If that doesn't show the religion believes in the Egyptian scrolls more than Christianity and its own Bible then I am sure you have no problem just using a real Bible in your church, right? Since you are ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS and all.

You can't accept the truth, that's typical of your cult. You don't use the Old Testament that Jesus followed, you know, REAL JEWS/CHRISTIANS, your cult leaders decided to write their own inserting Egyptian mythology and ancient alien garbage based on nothing but a known fraudsters delusional grandiose dreams.

Maybe you just should have left, there is no debating a cult member.

/Just playing semantics and questioning me without any arguments on your side doesn't actually mean you're trying to debate anything. It means you're desperate not to show your derp cards.


Well, you're right about one thing. I'm really not trying to debate. At no point have I attempted that. All I've tried to do is get you to back up a single statement of yours. You failed. I'm done. Go ahead, you can have the last word.
 
2012-07-03 08:41:10 PM  

OhLuverly: If it's been said once, it's been said a thousand times. Posthumous baptism does not in any way shape or form make these people a part of the Mormon church. It is clear to see in the database that the rite was done after death and in no way can be confused with them converting during their life. Posthumous baptism is an invitation to them after their death to accept the gospel if they so chose, as they may not have been given the opportunity to do so in life. That's it. Take off your tin foil hats.



There's a difference between altering a person's body or gravesite and saying some prayers and putting them on a roster.
 
2012-07-03 08:43:43 PM  
^Shoot, i was trying to quote the posts where someone said atheist relatives would be mad if someone put crosses on their graves...
 
2012-07-03 08:46:04 PM  

Gyrfalcon: OhLuverly: If it's been said once, it's been said a thousand times. Posthumous baptism does not in any way shape or form make these people a part of the Mormon church. It is clear to see in the database that the rite was done after death and in no way can be confused with them converting during their life. Posthumous baptism is an invitation to them after their death to accept the gospel if they so chose, as they may not have been given the opportunity to do so in life. That's it. Take off your tin foil hats.

That may be true--that it doesn't make them Mormons--but it's still an affront to their survivors who know they had the "opportunity" as you say and didn't take it because they DIDN'T BELIEVE IT. Many Jews believe that baptism is a denial of the religion of their fathers, which is why Jews in the Holocaust refused to convert even if it would have saved their lives--because that was their belief.

You can't just go around saying "We'll give you one more chance not to be a Jew/Muslim/atheist (you poor deluded soul)" and expect the genuine believers of that faith not to be really really pissed at you.



The Nazis were not trying to "convert" Jews to Christianity. They wanted them out of their hair. Period.

The Holocaust was not the result of a clash of religions, rather, it was an ethnic/racial/tribal conflict - the interests of one group were perceived as being opposed to the interests of the other. The conflict in present-day Palestine is not all that dissimilar - sure the opposing sides are of different "faiths", but it is the ethnocentric tribalism and narcissism that fuels the hatred.

Many Jews - even Israeli Jews - are in fact atheists or agnostic, yet they cling firmly to their ethnocentric TRIBALIST mentality.

You may have been thinking of the Inquisition, though even that was fueled more by cultural clashes than religious.


/No offense!
 
2012-07-03 08:53:45 PM  
You know, it really boils down to the Mormons showing some simple respect. But I guess that's too much to ask from any sect of Christianity.
 
2012-07-03 09:00:28 PM  

Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?


I agree wholeheartedly. It's the same as if people were posthumously inducted into the Communist Party and registered as Satanists. This kind of thing has no more effect than consecrating deceased Christians as Muslims.
 
2012-07-03 10:25:00 PM  
I've found, in the searching out my family tree, that there have been several of my ancestors that were posthumously baptized by the mormons. Funny they only baptize people that are of a 'certain social standing' I have some ancestors, Sinclair's (St. Clair) in Scotland of Rosslynn Castle that were 'mormonized' posthumously.

As I have no religion personally, I don't care, but I can't speak for anyone other than myself. Although I can understand people being upset that a family member was spiritually hijacked after death by a religion that was not theirs.

I know one thing, the mormons have amassed a shiatton of documents from all over the world...
 
2012-07-03 10:41:27 PM  

OK So Amuse Me: I know one thing, the mormons have amassed a shiatton of documents from all over the world...


The great thing about my ancestry is that I have very little documentation as far as ancestry goes for the Mormons to hijack. And the great thing about me is that I'm going to outlive Mormonism.
 
2012-07-03 11:31:32 PM  
Not enslavement, but this guy knows the feeling:
cdn.baekdal.com

Link
 
2012-07-04 12:53:38 AM  
Why doesn't Israel simply convert all of the dead mormons, starting with Joseph Smith, to Judaism.
 
2012-07-04 02:46:32 AM  

OK So Amuse Me: Funny they only baptize people that are of a 'certain social standing'


It's not uncommon that people of, as you say, a "certain social standing" have better records kept of their lives, doings, existence. But, no, it's not like we score more points for doing a proxy baptism of a duke over a ditch digger.
 
2012-07-04 02:50:20 AM  

treesloth: It's not uncommon that people of, as you say, a "certain social standing" have better records kept of their lives, doings, existence. But, no, it's not like we score more points for doing a proxy baptism of a duke over a ditch digger.


c'mon, get real.

ask yourself why obama's mother wasn't worth conversion until his election? she died in 1995, yet her soul became important in 2008.

they treat people like celebrity soul collector cards or spirit pokemon - and nobody cares about ditchdigger pokemon.
 
2012-07-04 03:47:22 AM  

treesloth: Well, you're right about one thing. I'm really not trying to debate. At no point have I attempted that. All I've tried to do is get you to back up a single statement of yours. You failed. I'm done. Go ahead, you can have the last word.



Exactly the response I figured. Absolutely no evidence to counter what I've said. Your God doesn't exist or give a fark about you. And I speak as a position of authority.
 
2012-07-04 03:52:45 AM  

Amos Quito: 1. They weren't "scrolls", they were PLATES - Golden Plates, to be precise



semantics again

Amos Quito: 2. He didn't "find" them. They were SHOWN to him by an angel / giant white salamander (depends on version)
3. He translated them with the help of "peep stones" - the "Urim and Thummim"
4. He didn't "lose them", they were taken away to confuse non-believers like you
5. The Book of Mormon is not a "new Bible" (though Smith did create an "inspired translation" of the Old and New Testaments).



2. find, shown. semantics again
3. sure he did
4. exactly
5. It's said to be the new Bible, an addition to the original and "corrected"

Amos Quito: 6. Golden Plates were NEVER claimed to have been written in Egyptian
7. Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible ALL THE TIME. They just spice it up with the BOM, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Abraham (LOL!) and "revelations" given to them via their Latter Day prophets.


6. False. They were written in "reformed Egyptian"
7. Like I said, revisionist Bible

Amos Quito: True - as it is of YOUR (older but just as silly) cult, I might add...


False

Amos Quito: Yes they do.



No if you change parts of it, it isn't the OT

Amos Quito: Dude, the fact that your myths have more miles on them doesn't make them any less nutty than theirs.


Actually it certain makes them more valid

Amos Quito: New cult, old cult - crazy religion is crazy - all are farking cancers and liabilities on humanity. They were invented to control and pit one group against another, and have caused more pain, suffering and death than any disease I can think of.

Maybe it's time we just dropped this superstitious bullshiat and moved on as human beings.

No?



Religion is not a liability, stupid people like yourself are

You can self hate all you want, and live your life thinking nothing else is out there, that's what greedy self centered selfish people do
 
2012-07-04 04:51:25 AM  

J. Frank Parnell: Really shows your faith in the one true god when you're worried about other gods.


Same god.

Plus a bunch christian sects that believe that certain things have to come about, some involving Israel, in order to trigger armageddon. So they believe that helping Israel will help with the second coming.
 
2012-07-04 05:00:00 AM  
Wow there's some really awesome Trolling going on here...

I think the point should be that the Jewish people believe that by having the Mormons babtize their dead they are endangering their loved one's enternal peace. What if they're right? who knows? point being they believe it and should have the right to protect and honor their dead just like everyone else...it's really the same reason I can't go have sex with a dead body...it's not like the dead person would care...just sayin
 
2012-07-04 05:47:51 AM  

vernonFL: I would like Romney to explain why Israel's universal healthcare system - which pays for abortions, no less - is so evil, and why we would support a country that has such an evil healthcare system.


how does a theocratic state justify taking tax dollars from everyone in order to pay for abortions?
 
2012-07-04 12:49:53 PM  

heap: ask yourself why obama's mother wasn't worth conversion until his election? she died in 1995, yet her soul became important in 2008.


Maybe someone heard of her and decided it would be a good idea? I don't know. But, no, unless someone just happens to get their jollies from that, there's no benefit to doing work for prominent people.
 
2012-07-05 03:43:31 PM  
ha! you guys are still feeding Silly Jesus? Jesus!
 
2012-07-06 05:31:36 PM  

Morpheses: BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.

THIS. They are trying to increase membership numbers from the grave.

Don't believe a word they say about membership numbers. They make you file a formal letter to the office in SLC to be removed from the church membership rolls, plus endure a visit from a bishop trying to change your mind. Most people don't bother, and are never officially removed from the membership totals, despite thinking the whole thing is a bunch of shiat.

/Its a scam


When you asked to be removed from the membership rolls, they also revoke your baptism. No baptism, no heaven..... They also believe there are 3 heavens, one for the devote Mormons, the other two for we lesser gentiles.
 
2012-07-06 05:34:24 PM  

Morpheses: BunkoSquad: Silly Jesus: I'm not clear on why people care. They are dead. Do they fear that the Jewish sky wizard will be confused about the fate of the Jewish folks if the Mormons start talking to their sky wizard about them?

It lays the groundwork for 100 years from now, teaching kids that 6 million Mormons died for their faith.

THIS. They are trying to increase membership numbers from the grave.

Don't believe a word they say about membership numbers. They make you file a formal letter to the office in SLC to be removed from the church membership rolls, plus endure a visit from a bishop trying to change your mind. Most people don't bother, and are never officially removed from the membership totals, despite thinking the whole thing is a bunch of shiat.

/Its a scam


When you ask to be removed from the membership rolls, they revoke your baptism. No baptism, no heaven..... Oh, and they believe there are 3 separate heavens, one for the devote Mormons, and the other two for the rest of us gentiles. (And, yes, they call anyone who is not Mormon gentiles.)
 
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