"Forget the fire," said the mayor, whose office has an easel with a chart depicting Colorado Springs's financial status, after a briefing on the blaze June 30. "At our current cost curve, we'll be insolvent in eight years."

Evidently not so well.

These Tea Party Patriots™ are going to biatch and moan until they get FEMA money to help them rebuild.

ecmoRandomNumbers: These Tea Party Patriots™ are going to biatch and moan until they get FEMA money to help them rebuild.

Pfft. FEMA funds are only for black people.

It's almost as if planning is an important thing, and you sometimes have to plan to have services you don't need, right now...

Sure, they wouldn't have been able to stop the wildfire but they may have been able to mitigate the damage it did inside the Springs' area.

They have absolutely no capacity to rebuild nor do they have the police staffing to protect property. Due to their anti-tax zealotry, there is no room for any disaster of any scale in CO Springs and now they have this to contend with. The irony of the handout requests from the federal government isn't lost on me here.

Now they have to contend with a pretty bleak future. Colorado Springs gets a significant portion of revenue from taxes related to tourism. When the economy in general went into the shiatter, their revenues dropped-a temporary problem. Their answer was to cut taxes and turn off services, close parks and turn off lights. Some areas started to look bad, tourism dropped a little more, less money became available and more services need to be cut. This cycle feeds itself without the help of a massive fire. Now, with this fire, they will have even less revenue. The money to properly rebuild won't be there as the FEMA cash isn't going to be quite enough to cover. They will have even less attractions to entice tourism and will have even less money to cover the gap.

It is possible that Colorado Springs goes full Detroit. You never go full Detroit.

That's really just sad, all around.

This is what winning looks like for libertarians.

They didn't pay their taxes, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em burn.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: [i50.tinypic.com image 500x293]

They didn't pay their taxes, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em burn.

They wanted to Go Galt, and so I suppose by their standards, we should just let them burn. If they didn't have fire insurance, that's the market speaking, right?

Obviously we need to cut taxes to give business owners incentives to privatize disaster relief efforts.

Weird. I'm not seeing any mention of this story on reason.com.

Rev.K: This is what winning looks like for libertarians.

no, these people are kooky evangelicals. they're 'libertarian' in the same way that they're 'christian' - i.e. in name only. this is the home base for Focus on the Family after all...they're not exactly big on thinking things through.

Gulching sounds pretty cool until your gulch catches fire.

Give them the federal money, but make them write "SOMETIMES TAXES PAY FOR THINGS THAT HELP PEOPLE" on a chalkboard 1000 times.

The city, home of the evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family, is known for being conservative and libertarian. It "was the Tea Party before the Tea Party was cool," Dunn said.

I thought Focus on the Family was a Christian group that focused mostly on the evil homosexual agenda?

vernonFL: The city, home of the evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family, is known for being conservative and libertarian. It "was the Tea Party before the Tea Party was cool," Dunn said.

I thought Focus on the Family was a Christian group that focused mostly on the evil homosexual agenda?

They are also against masturbation, that in itself should get all farkers against it
/grandma was a religious nut
//Focus on the Family came to our church/town when I was in high school

GAT_00: Weaver95: Rev.K: This is what winning looks like for libertarians.

no, these people are kooky evangelicals. they're 'libertarian' in the same way that they're 'christian' - i.e. in name only. this is the home base for Focus on the Family after all...they're not exactly big on thinking things through.

They massively cut taxes, government spending and they expect the Federal government they abhor to come fix everything for them.

Sure looks libertarian to me.

This is what actually happens.

they also say they're christian, but nothing they believe in has anything at all to do with Christianity. its called 'lying' and they lie about a lot of things. c'mon man, work with me on this one. .

vernonFL: The city, home of the evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family, is known for being conservative and libertarian. It "was the Tea Party before the Tea Party was cool," Dunn said.

I thought Focus on the Family was a Christian group that focused mostly on the evil homosexual agenda?

nah, they're basically a community of religious heretics. nothing they believe in has anything to do with what Christ actually said. essentially, these people want a spiritual excuse to be greedy, stupid assholes free from facing the consequences of their actions. Focus on the Family exists to ease their guilty conscious and give them an excuse to act all morally righteous.

So, the Teatards need a bailout?

Anyone hear from HST's Dead Carcass lately? It just occurred to me I haven't seen him post in a bunch of days.

There was an article on some of the returning evacuees on PBS Newshour last night; one of the women who'd lost her home was being visited by her insurance agent to get the ball rolling on a rebuild. Their next interview was with a woman who didn't have insurance on her home, and then the followup to that was that about a quarter of the people in that area actually didn't have insurance at all. I'm sure none of them will take government money, though. Their principles wouldn't allow them to accept that sort of handout for something they didn't believe they needed to have in the first place.

GAT_00: Seriously, why SHOULDN'T we hold these people to their principles? Why not make them stand up for what they believe?

Oh c'mon. There are other people living there.

Like half my staff. Who are doing OK thus far.

djkutch: So, the Teatards need a bailout?

no, the teatards need a MASSIVE bailout - as I understand it, these fires have torched a rather large percentage of this community. if they plan on rebuilding at all, they'll need a lot of Federal help. Which they qualify for and deserve...the problem is that their stated philosophy is that ALL government aid is evil. remember - to these folks, 'government is the debbil' is an absolute position, they CANNOT compromise on their beliefs. Compromise is weakness, and the weak are cast out.

GAT_00:
Look, you can keep whatever utopian ideals of libertarianism you want, but this is what you actually get. This, and 1870s robber barons. That's the real face of libertarianism.

This is why i don't take you seriously when you say everything can be better.

But let me directly ask you: do you think they should be denied aid?

ok, lets try this again: this is the home base of 'Focus on the Family', who are radical evangelicals that claim to be Christian. I think you and I can both agree that this organization and its followers DO NOT live a Christian lifestyle, nor are their beliefs in line with anything Christ actually said. I know you agree with me on this, you've said so several times. Focus on the Family...lie. they're liars (technically heretics but stick with me a moment).

So if these folks are lying about their faith....do you not also think it logical that they'd be lying about being libertarians? After all, they've warped Christianity to serve their political goals...what's to say that they haven't also warped and distorted the tenets of libertarian thought as well? Try and understand what I am telling you, because it's important.

Weaver95: djkutch: So, the Teatards need a bailout?

no, the teatards need a MASSIVE bailout - as I understand it, these fires have torched a rather large percentage of this community. if they plan on rebuilding at all, they'll need a lot of Federal help. Which they qualify for and deserve...the problem is that their stated philosophy is that ALL government aid is evil. remember - to these folks, 'government is the debbil' is an absolute position, they CANNOT compromise on their beliefs. Compromise is weakness, and the weak are cast out.

The only moral emergency is their emergency.

Hoisted on their own retard...

But I'm quite sure Grover Norquist is volunteering to help rebuild their city.

Weaver95: GAT_00:
Look, you can keep whatever utopian ideals of libertarianism you want, but this is what you actually get. This, and 1870s robber barons. That's the real face of libertarianism.

This is why i don't take you seriously when you say everything can be better.

But let me directly ask you: do you think they should be denied aid?

ok, lets try this again: this is the home base of 'Focus on the Family', who are radical evangelicals that claim to be Christian. I think you and I can both agree that this organization and its followers DO NOT live a Christian lifestyle, nor are their beliefs in line with anything Christ actually said. I know you agree with me on this, you've said so several times. Focus on the Family...lie. they're liars (technically heretics but stick with me a moment).

So if these folks are lying about their faith....do you not also think it logical that they'd be lying about being libertarians? After all, they've warped Christianity to serve their political goals...what's to say that they haven't also warped and distorted the tenets of libertarian thought as well? Try and understand what I am telling you, because it's important.

I think it's disturbing that you two are acting like the ONLY people who live there are FOF.

GAT_00: But let me directly ask you: do you think they should be denied aid?

I live in Florida. Are you going to take punitive measures against me the next time we need federal hurricane aid, because my Governor and the people who voted him in are assholes?

They will get away with their asshattery and will receive aid in Colorado Springs because anything less would be inhumane.

Pocket Ninja: There was an article on some of the returning evacuees on PBS Newshour last night; one of the women who'd lost her home was being visited by her insurance agent to get the ball rolling on a rebuild. Their next interview was with a woman who didn't have insurance on her home, and then the followup to that was that about a quarter of the people in that area actually didn't have insurance at all. I'm sure none of them will take government money, though. Their principles wouldn't allow them to accept that sort of handout for something they didn't believe they needed to have in the first place.

LOL!

djkutch: The only moral emergency is their emergency.

OMG LOL!!

doyner: Hoisted on their own retard...

But I'm quite sure Grover Norquist is volunteering to help rebuild their city.

OMGWTFBBQLOLZ!!!11!!!

dugitman: Gulching sounds pretty cool until your gulch catches fire.

you know they make like a cream for that now

djkutch: Weaver95: djkutch: So, the Teatards need a bailout?

no, the teatards need a MASSIVE bailout - as I understand it, these fires have torched a rather large percentage of this community. if they plan on rebuilding at all, they'll need a lot of Federal help. Which they qualify for and deserve...the problem is that their stated philosophy is that ALL government aid is evil. remember - to these folks, 'government is the debbil' is an absolute position, they CANNOT compromise on their beliefs. Compromise is weakness, and the weak are cast out.

The only moral emergency is their emergency.

i'm sure that most of the tea baggers are no strangers to hypocrisy but...it does make a point about how shallow their commitment is to their own cause.

Neddy doesn't believe in insurance. He considers it a form of gambling.

One little point of note:

They still pay federal taxes, soooooo...

GAT_00:
Well, they elected a proclaimed libertarian, demanded tax cuts and government service cuts. That's the core of libertarian ideals, right?

ok, i'm gonna keep hitting this point until I get it across to you: these people ARE NOT libertarians. have you paid attention to ANY of what i've been saying? they claim to be christian, but they're not. they claim to be libertarian...but they're not. can you understand what I am telling you?

Look, how exactly would this be any different they were "real" libertarians, whoever the fark they are. Would not a libertarian government cut taxes, cut government spending, lay off employees, the whole nine yards? Do you think they would have refused federal assistance? Would YOU if you were Mayor? Would you refuse to apply for disaster aid? Would you insist on repaying every cent that it cost to put out the fires?

it makes a very large difference. if they were actual libertarians, they'd balance personal freedom with tax reforms and completely cut religious beliefs from public policy decisions. would there be cuts? probably. would there be tax hikes? probably. Problem is, we'll never know...because these religious nutballs corrupt and distort anything they get involved with until it serves their political purposes.

GAT_00:

And what's more, this preposterous exercise in libertarian government cuts to fark over everyone and then taking millions in Federal Aid when it all crashes down needs to farking stop. This shiat is going to bankrupt us, and until people r ...

these people are libertarians in the same way that they're 'christian'. seriously...dude. stop. you're embarrassing yourself.

GAT_00: I think if you can't hold people to their principles, then the principles are worthless.

And what's more, this preposterous exercise in libertarian government cuts to fark over everyone and then taking millions in Federal Aid when it all crashes down needs to farking stop. This shiat is going to bankrupt us, and until people realize that they will be held to their own principles, nothing will change. There's no good way to only help the people who actually live in a modern society and are willing to pay for it.

I'm farking sick of these people, because they never see the consequences of their actions. Let people actually see what a libertarian paradise looks like.

I'm not willing to punish the innocent for the actions of the wicked. And to be honest, I'm a bit put off that you are. Level of frustration on your part notwithstanding.

GAT_00: doyner: One little point of note:

They still pay federal taxes, soooooo...

Fine. Refund their Federal taxes paid this year. Problem solved, wipe hands on pants.

While hanging them out to dry would be delightfully satisfying, it would not be as worthwhile as rendering assistance and then rubbing their noses in their hypocrisy.

GAT_00:
You just totally farking dodged the hard questions to bash me.

no, I am trying to break through that pig stubborn prejudice you've got towards libertarians. These people ARE NOT libertarian.

once more - they claim to be christian. But they warp Christianity and get 'focus on the family' and the prosperity gospel. point conceded, right? I mean you see that they're NOT even remotely Christian. same thing with their claims about being libertarian. they claim to be libertarians but...they're using that label as an excuse. I mean you see that, right?

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: [i50.tinypic.com image 500x293]

They didn't pay their taxes, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em burn.

The is the perfect opportunity for them to show how well teatardisim works. The government needs to stay off of their backs.