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(PennLive)   Atheist threatens to sue restaurant he's never been to for their Sunday church-bulletin discount program. Tag is for restaurant owner, who tells atheist he'll get over it   (pennlive.com) divider line 470
    More: Hero, Freedom From Religion Foundation, German Jews, pa legislature, discounts, baptisms, own, religions and spiritual traditions  
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18083 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2012 at 9:38 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 11:40:25 PM

muck4doo: sillydragon: muck4doo: MrCrazyInsane: Theism in all forms needs to be abolished if there is any hope for mankind to advance.

I rest my case.

Wow, holy shiat. You're right! Your quoting of some random farker named "MrCrazyInsane" is rock solid evidence. This means that Jesus is King, Elvis can suck it, and Dawkins has to write a 6660 word essay on why he's a mean poopyhead.

Oh, are you doubting there aren't a bunch of other people out there who think this way? Are you new to Fark? The Webs? To life?

I see though you want to remain willfully ignorant and keep insisting that your beliefs have never had their assholes, including yes, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot to name a few.

/You can bring up the crusades and inquisition if it makes you feel better.


No, I'm not doubting there are people like that around, but you quoting some random guy off of fark as evidence of pretty much anything beyond "Some random guy on Fark.com said..." is pretty silly.

And...wat? I "keep insisting"? Where?
 
2012-07-02 11:40:55 PM

towatchoverme: Reading these threads is like walking past a table full of drunk Philosophy sophomores.


That is why fark is losing
"subscribers" to something called
Reddit.Which is available on the intraweb
\o/
|
/ \
 
2012-07-02 11:41:32 PM
just so you coupon kings know, those church bulletins are plentiful, they'll gladly find you one if you don't see the pile(s).
 
2012-07-02 11:41:40 PM
I'm as agnostic/atheist/anti-religion as the next guy, and I have no problem with this restaurant. It's no different than giving a discount for bringing in your ticket stub from the ballgame the night before.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:46 PM
I'm an atheist myself, but folks like this John Wolff of Manheim Twp. are just sad little pricks. What that restaurant is doing is no different than what all the restaurants around the big multiplex/IMAX theater where I live do when they offer a 10% discount with your movie ticket stub.
 
2012-07-02 11:42:12 PM
Oh FARK YOU, haters.
I don't cry when it's ladies night.
I don't give a crap about Senior Citizen discounts.
Don't like it? Don't eat there.
Buncha crybabies.
 
2012-07-02 11:43:24 PM

Shostie: Coco LaFemme: It's a private business, they can serve or refuse to serve whomever they want. Doesn't make it morally right, but that doesn't make it illegal, either.

That's actually not... entirely true...

Link


this is about a 10% discount...not...a...refuse...service...situation but carry on.

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
 
2012-07-02 11:45:35 PM

RealAmericanHero: I support any and all efforts against Christianity, whatever those may be. Bravo, 80 year old guy.

/and before you bring it up, I'm equally against all religion, but Christianity is the biggest problem here
//any saying "just let it go" is sort of like saying "just let people spread aids, it's their right"


THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
 
2012-07-02 11:46:46 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Hershey Highway Patrol: So what would happen if you offered a discount for everyone who threw a bible in the trash when they walked in?

That could be determined to be hate speech. If someone were to run a special if you desecrate a Tanakh or Quran, it is beyond certainty that it would be considered hate speech in this country. Probably the same with your bible special. So, while not strictly illegal, it would almost certainly open you up to many expensive lawsuits. Try it with Qurans and see what happens.

My best guess is you would simply have no customers because you are obviously a hateful douche, with whom even most militant of atheists don't want to be associated. Again, being a hateful douche isn't illegal, it just means you will go out of business after about a week.


Oh, and BTW - paper bibles generally cost $10 bucks each. So your customers getting $3 off for their $10 investment probably aren't the brightest bulbs on the tree.


I'd go to the restaurant and do it for the laughs. As far as the cost, let the Gideons bear it ;)

Personally, I think the idea is dumb for a business, but it could be funny as heck to watch. I'd change it to ANY "Holy Book" from any religion for the lulz. Watch the collective uproar!
 
2012-07-02 11:47:32 PM
ImJustaTroll

your name

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
 
2012-07-02 11:47:50 PM

exick: jj325: People like this need to STFU and quit giving atheists a bad name

I was ready to say this too, but then I saw that the dude is 80 and decided to chalk it up to old man yells at cloud.


Poor old guy will be in hell soon. Id be yelling at clouds too.
 
2012-07-02 11:48:02 PM

sillydragon: muck4doo: sillydragon: muck4doo: MrCrazyInsane: Theism in all forms needs to be abolished if there is any hope for mankind to advance.

I rest my case.

Wow, holy shiat. You're right! Your quoting of some random farker named "MrCrazyInsane" is rock solid evidence. This means that Jesus is King, Elvis can suck it, and Dawkins has to write a 6660 word essay on why he's a mean poopyhead.

Oh, are you doubting there aren't a bunch of other people out there who think this way? Are you new to Fark? The Webs? To life?

I see though you want to remain willfully ignorant and keep insisting that your beliefs have never had their assholes, including yes, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot to name a few.

/You can bring up the crusades and inquisition if it makes you feel better.

No, I'm not doubting there are people like that around, but you quoting some random guy off of fark as evidence of pretty much anything beyond "Some random guy on Fark.com said..." is pretty silly.

And...wat? I "keep insisting"? Where?


My bad, that wasn't you. It really doesn't have anything to do with religion or "lack thereof". It has to do with authoritarian asshats who want to enforce their beliefs on everyone else. Those come in all creeds, shapes, and sizes.

/Yeah, I called ya fat.
//Look at me, I'm skinny
///It never stopped me from gettin' busy
 
2012-07-02 11:48:54 PM

halfof33: towatchoverme: Reading these threads is like walking past a table full of drunk Philosophy sophomores.

That is why fark is losing
"subscribers" to something called
Reddit.Which is available on the intraweb
\o/
|
/ \


LOL!
 
2012-07-02 11:48:58 PM

inglixthemad: I'd go to the restaurant and do it for the laughs. As far as the cost, let the Gideons bear it ;)

Personally, I think the idea is dumb for a business, but it could be funny as heck to watch. I'd change it to ANY "Holy Book" from any religion for the lulz. Watch the collective uproar!


The birth of an internet tough guy
 
2012-07-02 11:51:39 PM

Zombie DJ: Oh FARK YOU, haters.
I don't cry when it's ladies night.
I don't give a crap about Senior Citizen discounts.
Don't like it? Don't eat there.
Buncha crybabies Crybaby.


Feexed
 
2012-07-02 11:53:20 PM
Maybe the Restaurant can give a discount for bringing in a copy of "The God Delusion."

Maybe if a person believes in Mammon, He can bring in a copy of the Sunday financial section.
 
2012-07-02 11:54:18 PM

ImJustaTroll: Way to have a retarded comment section, fark.. you just keep losing subscribers to Reddit.


Anyone we lose to the Reddit hivemind wasn't worth keeping to begin with.
 
2012-07-02 11:54:20 PM
I dunno, he could argue that "church" is used in the broad sense and give the discount to people with stuff from mosques/temples/wiccan circles/philosophy lectures/comic conventions/etc too. That could be justifiable.

If he literally means just Christian churches, then yeah, prepare to be lawsuited. That's not how civil rights work, religion falls under protected class so legally this is basically the same as refusing to offer normal-price service to non-white people.

zzrhardy: There seems to be a new breed of athiest whose entire cognition amounts to getting in peoples faces for a reddit picture pose.

Old school athiests used to profoundly understate their point by simply being more Christ-like than the Christians.


WTF are you talking about? Atheists have assholes and good eggs like everyone else. The louder, more obvious Christians are generally among the assholes, too.

We're not inherently any better behaviorally than religious people (well, on average, yeah, but not in a case-by-case way) we're just wrong about a million things humans are usually wrong about instead of a million and one.
 
2012-07-02 11:56:09 PM

dougputhoff: Maybe the Restaurant can give a discount for bringing in a copy of "The God Delusion."


Maybe the Restaurant can give a discount for bringing in a copy of "The Pietà."
 
2012-07-02 11:58:11 PM

Hobodeluxe: Hershey Highway Patrol: So what would happen if you offered a discount for everyone who threw a bible in the trash when they walked in?

the Phelps klan picketing outside your establishment with their signs?


So no downside?
 
2012-07-02 11:58:49 PM

Mock26: Coco LaFemme: Good. Who gives a rat's wet asshole if this restaurant offers a discount to people who bring in church bulletins? They're allowed to do that. They could even put up a sign that says "Atheists/Non-Christians not allowed" and you still can't do jack or shiat about it. It's a private business, they can serve or refuse to serve whomever they want. Doesn't make it morally right, but that doesn't make it illegal, either.

Just find a church, grab a bulletin, and get your precious 10% discount if it means that much to you, you whiny little chucklefark.

Actually, private businesses that are open to the public are not allowed to discriminate based on age, gender, sex, physical handicap, or religion. That is actually a Federal Law. And, being an atheist is protected under the term "religion." So, they could not legally put up a sign saying "Atheists/Non-Christians not allowed." And while they are free to refuse service to any customer, they cannot do so because of the person's age, gender, sex, physical handicap, or religion. They can, however, refuse service for just about any other reason.


And the resturant refused sevice to whom...?? What law sets the Federally Mandated Price for a Plate of Chow?

Crimeny: a private business wants to charge different rates. Oh my, the outrage!!11!!!1!!!!111 Bugger off, Grumpy Gus.


Salt Lick Steady: shoegaze99: (snip) No. Again, coupons are NOT religious in nature. It's not a matter of having a slip of paper; it's a matter of having a religious slip of paper. [...]


What quality does a 'religious slip of paper' have to distinguish it from non-reliigous slips? Does anything printed in a church become 'religious'? Are only bullitens religious, or are member mailing lists religious too?? Can any slip of paper with words from a religious text become religious itself, or only slips of paper intended to preserve and record religious teachings?

You're trying very hard, and should get credit for that effort. But the argument that buliitens are being used as de facto coupons is rather compelling. The requirement that they be "current" bolsters this line of reasoning -- meaning a patron could not simply turn in a bulliten from 1962, much like newspaper-clipped coupons are typically printed with an expiration date.

Are there legitamate instances of discrimination due to religious and/or a-religious beliefs? Probably so. Is this one of them, or does it rise to the level of a cause celebre?? I just don't see it. It's a private business trying to increase traffic by altering the price of its goods. Stretching it into a Federal case seems rather petty.
 
2012-07-02 11:59:22 PM
Whooooo hooooo!!!! Athiesm thread on night shift is wack!
 
2012-07-03 12:02:02 AM

Jim_Callahan: this is basically the same as refusing to offer normal-price service to non-white people.


It isn't. The discount is not based on whether or not you are a Christian, or whether you do or do not believe, or even whether or not you attend church. It's based on whether or nor you have a freely available, easily-accessible slip of paper.

The woman says straight out that you don't need to be a church-goer to get the discount: Prudhomme, who does not attend church due to her work schedule, said she told the group she operates an independent restaurant and suggested non church-goers can pick up bulletins from any church and bring them to the restaurant to cash in on the discount.

You don't have to attend church. You don't have to believe. You don't have to do anything other than present a flier you can pick up for free all over town. It's nothing at all like refusing discounts to blacks or any other such comparison,
 
2012-07-03 12:02:25 AM
So it's like the westboro basptisist of atheism?

What irritates me most is not people who don't agree with me, but rather people who are so convinced they have the only possible right answer that it not only is it no longer necessary for them to continue thinking, but they'd invite you to stop as well.

We share this world. Think about it.
 
2012-07-03 12:03:21 AM
What about churches that don't have bulletins? I bet they would have something to say about this!
 
2012-07-03 12:04:24 AM
HERO???

Really?
 
2012-07-03 12:04:36 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Are they the ones who have Bible verses on their drink cups and food wrappers, or is that In-N-Out? Or do both of them do that?


You may be thinking of Cook-Out (or Cook Out or Cookout, the spelling seems inconsistent), a chain of 100 restaurants in the southeastern USA.

'Cookout caters to Christian customers by playing Christian music over the intercom and printing various Bible verses on their cups and bags. Their packaging displays a variety of religious phrases printed, for example, "John 3:16″ and "God Bless America" are printed on the cups, "God Bless the USA" and "Galatians 6:10″ are printed on the french fry bags, and "THANK YOU GOD FOR AMERICA" and "Psalms 119:165″ are printed on the full size bags, but Bible verses vary.'

Their food's pretty good, actually. Bit better than your average burger joint in that part of America.
 
2012-07-03 12:07:36 AM

ImJustaTroll: Ah, 214 comments, which means about 3 people will actually read my comment.

Way to have a retarded comment section, fark.. you just keep losing subscribers to Reddit.

Anyways... I think the restaurant has a right to discriminate based on non-protected classes of people. Age, Military Service, Religion, Student, Women, etc.

Is it fair to everyone? Not really. Is it rustling everyone's Jimmies? Not too much.

I think we need to address the fact that there are like 8 states where atheists don't even have the right to hold public office before we go after some maw and paw food bag.


Hooray!! I'm in the 33%

/ go me!
 
2012-07-03 12:09:21 AM

GT_bike: RealAmericanHero: I support any and all efforts against Christianity, whatever those may be. Bravo, 80 year old guy.

/and before you bring it up, I'm equally against all religion, but Christianity is the biggest problem here
//any saying "just let it go" is sort of like saying "just let people spread aids, it's their right"

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE


You're on a roll tonight, Biker.

I AM OUTRAGED!!!
 
2012-07-03 12:11:10 AM

s2s2s2: Salt Lick Steady: That's not the question as the courts have already determined that lack of religion is, for the purposes of religious discrimination laws, a religion

Atheism is a religion. The courts say so. I'm glad you finally proved it*.

*once you provide a citation.


Atheism isn't a religion. However, I'd argue Anti-theism is... meetings and conventions held with some regularity, books that guide thought, a belief that not adhering to a certain viewpoint places your morals in danger of corruption... sounds pretty religious to me.
 
2012-07-03 12:15:31 AM
"threatens to sue"? He actually filed the complaint with the Human Rights Commission... It uses the states resources to bring the business owner to court.
 
2012-07-03 12:17:29 AM

Marine1: Atheism isn't a religion. However, I'd argue Anti-theism is... meetings and conventions held with some regularity, books that guide thought, a belief that not adhering to a certain viewpoint places your morals in danger of corruption... sounds pretty religious to me.


Except for that whole "belief in a supernatural being" thing.

Webster or Oxford - it's the definition of religion
 
2012-07-03 12:19:37 AM

KyDave: Are there legitamate instances of discrimination due to religious and/or a-religious beliefs? Probably so. Is this one of them, or does it rise to the level of a cause celebre?? I just don't see it. It's a private business trying to increase traffic by altering the price of its goods. Stretching it into a Federal case seems rather petty.


Christ, read the thread. It's not a federal case, and I already said it's not a big deal but that he could plausibly have a case under the PHRA
 
2012-07-03 12:20:04 AM

whatshisname: Marine1: Atheism isn't a religion. However, I'd argue Anti-theism is... meetings and conventions held with some regularity, books that guide thought, a belief that not adhering to a certain viewpoint places your morals in danger of corruption... sounds pretty religious to me.

Except for that whole "belief in a supernatural being" thing.

Webster or Oxford - it's the definition of religion


Well, maybe I'm using the wrong term. Dogma would be a better description. Anti-theism certainly has a dogma, and ultimately, that's what causes persecution and hatred. They won't admit it, and would love to pass off faith as the cause, but the real cause is dogma.
 
2012-07-03 12:20:48 AM

BMFPitt: jj325: People like this need to STFU and quit giving atheists a bad name

That's the big difference between non-believers and believers. When an atheist acts like an asshat over his non-belief, other atheists won't hesitate to call them out on it.

doglover: There's a reason no atheist has been elected president, and it's not because of the Christian voters.

What makes you think we haven't had quite a few?


History books.
 
2012-07-03 12:22:31 AM

OgreMagi: Damn atheists are as annoying as vegan. Vegans are annoying because they NEVER SHUT UP about being a vegan. Atheists are annoying because they NEVER SHUT UP about religion.

/my religion is I don't give a shiat.


This is why I hate horse enthusiasts. They never, *ever* STFU about their stupid god damn horses.

/relevant
 
2012-07-03 12:22:53 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Are they the ones who have Bible verses on their drink cups and food wrappers, or is that In-N-Out? Or do both of them do that?


I don't think I've ever eaten at an In-N-Out Burger, so I thought of Cook-Out first. According to Wikipedia, however, both restaurants do the Bible verse thing.

I would guess that Cook-Out and In-N-Out are similar, but Cook-Out's on the East Coast, and In-N-Out is out West.

Meanwhile, Chik-Fil-A's founder is Southern Baptist, it's closed on Sundays (and Christmas) to promote Christianity, and it's extremely hostile to Islam (and probably any other religious viewpoint that's not Baptist) and homosexuality.

They seem to have backed off this position ever so slightly, however. The original statement was "I was not so committed to financial success that I was willing to abandon my principles and priorities. One of the most visible examples of this is our decision to close on Sunday. Our decision to close on Sunday was our way of honoring God and of directing our attention to things that mattered more than our business." according to Wikipedia.

On their official website, it now says:

"He [Truett Cathy] has often shared that his decision was as much practical as spiritual. He believes that all franchised Chick-fil-A Operators and their Restaurant employees should have an opportunity to rest, spend time with family and friends, and worship if they choose to do so. That's why all Chick-fil-A Restaurants are closed on Sundays."

Interesting.
 
2012-07-03 12:23:52 AM
I used to go to a place that had free food, but only for Catholics.

Not much food, just little wafers...
 
2012-07-03 12:24:35 AM
Is their chicken halal?
Kosher?
 
2012-07-03 12:29:22 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Never pass up a chance to fan the flames of hatred against atheists

/f*ck you, subby


Atheist makes ass of himself and a Farker notices and posts an article about it with a snarky comment. That's "fanning the flames of hatred" to you? If you find that people are treating you like you're a hair-trigger hysteric, this is why.
 
2012-07-03 12:31:54 AM

whatshisname: Marine1: Atheism isn't a religion. However, I'd argue Anti-theism is... meetings and conventions held with some regularity, books that guide thought, a belief that not adhering to a certain viewpoint places your morals in danger of corruption... sounds pretty religious to me.

Except for that whole "belief in a supernatural being" thing.

Webster or Oxford - it's the definition of religion


Except it says "power" not "being"

Anti-theists basic logic and high school science facts have some special change the world's culture. That's a snowball's chance, so they must subscribe to it some supetnatural propert.

Atheists, on the other hand, just don't care to believe in god. They might even go to church events to be sociable. But they're not gonna piss on people's fun out of spite.

So yeah, anti-theism is a religion.
 
2012-07-03 12:32:49 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Never pass up a chance to fan the flames of hatred against atheists

/f*ck you, subby


Subby's not the one filing with the Human Rights Commission, dumbass. That would be the atheist who has never been near this restaurant and goes on to claim "I bear them no ill will." Bullshiat.
 
2012-07-03 12:33:46 AM

Plastic Trash Vortex: OgreMagi: Damn atheists are as annoying as vegan. Vegans are annoying because they NEVER SHUT UP about being a vegan. Atheists are annoying because they NEVER SHUT UP about religion.

/my religion is I don't give a shiat.

This is why I hate horse enthusiasts. They never, *ever* STFU about their stupid god damn horses.

/relevant


I'm an equestrian, and what you said about horse owners (especially women) is absolutely true.
 
2012-07-03 12:37:57 AM

Marcus Aurelius: /to mennonite: how you make an amish girl happy


I know an atheist who was brought up mennonite.... I think I might sail that one past her next time I see her.

/I'd just avoid the restaurant Sunday afternoon.
//Like I do Chik-fil-a all week.
 
2012-07-03 12:41:37 AM

Salt Lick Steady: KyDave: Are there legitamate instances of discrimination due to religious and/or a-religious beliefs? Probably so. Is this one of them, or does it rise to the level of a cause celebre?? I just don't see it. It's a private business trying to increase traffic by altering the price of its goods. Stretching it into a Federal case seems rather petty.

Christ, read the thread. It's not a federal case, and I already said it's not a big deal but that he could plausibly have a case under the PHRA


{ sarc }
You mean 14th Amendment and SCOTUS citations aside, it's not a Federal Case? Gotcha -- thanks for clarification.
{ /sarc }

/ Also, "Christ, read the thread (...)" warning: Irony Alert !!
// Made me lulz a little
 
2012-07-03 12:43:10 AM
So ... this is an independently-owned restaurant, the owner of which said she was looking for a way to drum up Sunday dinner sales, took advantage of the many church-goers in her area, and even said that anyone who comes in with a church pamphlet could get a discount, effectively allowing her restaurant to take a dip in dinner sales. There's no infringement upon Separation of Church of State, no one actually must attend church, and now there's another internet Atheists v. Theists war over this. Um, what's the problem again?
 
2012-07-03 12:44:07 AM

OgreMagi: Plastic Trash Vortex: OgreMagi: Damn atheists are as annoying as vegan. Vegans are annoying because they NEVER SHUT UP about being a vegan. Atheists are annoying because they NEVER SHUT UP about religion.

/my religion is I don't give a shiat.

This is why I hate horse enthusiasts. They never, *ever* STFU about their stupid god damn horses.

/relevant

I'm an equestrian, and what you said about horse owners (especially women) is absolutely true.


I'm hung like a horse, so I'm getting a kick out of this.

/ Well, quarter horse, anyway.
 
2012-07-03 12:46:00 AM

ciberido: Bathia_Mapes: Are they the ones who have Bible verses on their drink cups and food wrappers, or is that In-N-Out? Or do both of them do that?

I don't think I've ever eaten at an In-N-Out Burger, so I thought of Cook-Out first. According to Wikipedia, however, both restaurants do the Bible verse thing.

I would guess that Cook-Out and In-N-Out are similar, but Cook-Out's on the East Coast, and In-N-Out is out West.

Meanwhile, Chik-Fil-A's founder is Southern Baptist, it's closed on Sundays (and Christmas) to promote Christianity, and it's extremely hostile to Islam (and probably any other religious viewpoint that's not Baptist) and homosexuality.

They seem to have backed off this position ever so slightly, however. The original statement was "I was not so committed to financial success that I was willing to abandon my principles and priorities. One of the most visible examples of this is our decision to close on Sunday. Our decision to close on Sunday was our way of honoring God and of directing our attention to things that mattered more than our business." according to Wikipedia.

On their official website, it now says:

"He [Truett Cathy] has often shared that his decision was as much practical as spiritual. He believes that all franchised Chick-fil-A Operators and their Restaurant employees should have an opportunity to rest, spend time with family and friends, and worship if they choose to do so. That's why all Chick-fil-A Restaurants are closed on Sundays."

Interesting.


They never gave me a problem and I'm Catholic. Then again, I left a copy of the Koran in the bathroom stall for patrons to use.
 
2012-07-03 12:53:36 AM
I'd like to see somewhere in 78704 do this with Pride fliers and PFLAG membership cards
 
2012-07-03 12:55:36 AM

CigaretteSmokingMan: scottydoesntknow: BunkyBrewman: Bathia_Mapes: If the restaurant was run by the state I could see there being an issue, but it isn't. It's a privately owned, independent restaurant. Separation of church and state doesn't even factor in.

Having said that, I wonder if this organization has gone after Chick-fil-A yet. Do they even have restaurants in Pennsylvania?

Yes.

Last Sunday I passed one of the local Chick-fil-A's on a Sunday. The only people that were working around the restaurant were the landscapers.

So they don't work on Sunday cause of Jesus, but Jesús has to work on Sunday.

Jesus is Jewish. He gets Saturday off.


Shabbat starts just before sunset on Friday evening. That's how Jesus rolls.
 
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