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(PennLive)   Atheist threatens to sue restaurant he's never been to for their Sunday church-bulletin discount program. Tag is for restaurant owner, who tells atheist he'll get over it   (pennlive.com) divider line 456
    More: Hero, Freedom From Religion Foundation, German Jews, pa legislature, discounts, baptisms, own, religions and spiritual traditions  
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18106 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2012 at 9:38 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 10:48:08 PM  
My fellow atheists, don't be assholes. Unless they are begging for it.
 
2012-07-02 10:48:27 PM  
"We're the most unprejudiced of all. I don't care if you are purple or polka dot. The only requirement we have is men must wear sleeves," she said.

Freedom from Sleeves Foundation weighed in yet?
 
2012-07-02 10:50:09 PM  
I'm the most militant atheistic atheist that ever atheisted, and I still don't get what the basis would be for this suit.

There is no God. Of that I'm absolutely certain (as certain as I am that there is no Santa Claus). You best not be violating my 1st amendment rights by teaching your religion in my taxpayer funded schools, or I be exercising my 2nd amendment rights on you.

But still, don't see a problem with this.
 
2012-07-02 10:50:19 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: AKTurkey: What's your point? Remind me again, which religious creed are atheists?

See my post above. The federal courts have long determined that lack of a religious creed IS a creed for the purpose of religious discrimination laws.


Irrelevant. No one is required to believe in God/the church/whatever to get this discount, only to carry a piece of paper. No one is turned away for the nature of their beliefs, or lack thereof, only for their lack of a piece of paper. The woman even says outright that atheists are welcome to grab a program from any church and get the discount, too. She doesn't give a rat's ass about someone's beliefs, she's just trying to get people into her restaurant.

If that's discrimination, so is passing on a discount only to people who clipped coupons from the local paper.
 
2012-07-02 10:50:19 PM  
Okay, that's it. I'm no longer calling myself an atheist. I'm just a guy. A guy who happens not to believe in all that nonsense, and by "all that nonsense", I'm throwing in atheism as well.

//Fark you, Atheism!
 
2012-07-02 10:50:34 PM  

AKTurkey: Salt Lick Steady: AKTurkey: Salt Lick Steady: AKTurkey: What's your point? Remind me again, which religious creed are atheists?

See my post above. The federal courts have long determined that lack of a religious creed IS a creed for the purpose of religious discrimination laws.

You cite a PA statute and then claim federal courts have determined lack of a religious creed IS a creed. Hey, that's awesome, but state courts own the interpretation of state statutes. Now I'm not saying that the federal constitution doesn't include a protection which trumps any state law or that PA courts haven't interpreted lack of religious creed to be a creed (who knows, west law it if you want), but your post makes no sense.

The 14th amendment - equal protection - applies to the states, genius.

You are correct that the 14th amendment applies equal protection to the states (it also incorporates the first amendment). It is also true that if there is an equal protection violation, any state law that allows the violation is unconstitutional unless it passes strict scrutiny. However, this still doesn't answer why you felt the need to post a PA statute which has nothing to do with the equal protection clause.


To make it easier for you, just read Wallace v Jaffree mentioned above. In sum, it invalidated a state law allowing for a "moment of silence or prayer" in part based on the principle that lack of religious belief constituted a creed that could be violated by such a state law. In this sense, the matter can be construed as both a first and a fourteenth amendment issue; states cannot pass laws that respect religious beliefs over lack of religious beliefs.
 
2012-07-02 10:50:43 PM  

OOBE Juan Kenobi: exick: jj325: People like this need to STFU and quit giving atheists a bad name

I was ready to say this too, but then I saw that the dude is 80 and decided to chalk it up to old man yells at cloud.

That's funny. I lol'd, but the reality is there are plenty of people in that age range that still have a sharp mind.


Not this guy, if that were the case, then he would know that Prudhomme's is not the government.
 
2012-07-02 10:52:01 PM  
If you biatch and cry about your religious beliefs, and demand other people satisfy your desires, you are a religion.
Join the band, Godless assholes.
 
2012-07-02 10:52:25 PM  

AbbeySomeone: FloydA: Sensei Can You See: he's another no-life-haver

FriarReb98: the stick up that atheist's butt must have a stick up its butt.


He's 80. Being grumpy for no good reason is his duty.

He's bored and lonely and working out his own issues with childhood religious abuse. That said, he should f*ck off and find another activity.


I agree. This is a stupid fight that was started by a senile old guy. Even though I agree with him that "god" is made up and religion is a bunch of nonsensical superstition, I agree with you that he should probably just sit the hell down and go back to watching Matlock. The restaurant has every right to give discounts to the superstitious people if they want to; it's their business. Atheists can just have all you can eat brunch someplace else if it really bothers them.



andyfromfl:

You might throw some of the last century's dictators in that extreme atheists category.



RY28:

Especially the mass genocide types .



Name a dictator who had people killed because they were not atheists.

Stalin had people killed because they were not Stalinists, although the Russian Orthodox church persisted through the Stalin era, so you can't use him as an example.

Mao had people killed because they were not Maoists, but Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, and many "folk" religions persisted in China during and after Mao's reign, so he's also not an example.

You might be able to make an argument that Pol Pot tried to eliminate religion in Kampuchea, although given the fact that the Khmer Rouge used religion as one of their primary categories for classifying people, it would be a tough argument to make.

So, given the fact that you can't use Stalin or Mao, and the use of Pol Pot is at best, tenuous, your argument that "atheism is the cause of genocide" is on rather shaky footings.

Unless you have some other examples that you would like to present of people who killed others because they were not atheists.

I'd be happy to hear of them, if you have examples.
 
2012-07-02 10:54:51 PM  

shoegaze99: Irrelevant. No one is required to believe in God/the church/whatever to get this discount, only to carry a piece of paper. No one is turned away for the nature of their beliefs, or lack thereof, only for their lack of a piece of paper. The woman even says outright that atheists are welcome to grab a program from any church and get the discount, too. She doesn't give a rat's ass about someone's beliefs, she's just trying to get people into her restaurant.

If that's discrimination, so is passing on a discount only to people who clipped coupons from the local paper.


Did you even read the statutes I posted? No, being required to have a current church bulletin even though you don't attend such a church is not valid (and neither is advertising as such). An atheist professing a sincerely held belief in atheism should not be required to steal or copy a religious bulletin, to essentially pretend to be religious, in order to obtain the discount.

And no, it's not of the likes of someone not clipping a coupon; coupons are not religious in nature.
 
2012-07-02 10:55:20 PM  

jayphat:

Dude. My Little Pony? Really?


Yes. Powered by nvidia, intel core2 duo, intel core i5, AMD X2, and ponies. :D

(Windows 7 is also (C)2010 Hasbro...)
 
2012-07-02 10:55:43 PM  

muck4doo: MrCrazyInsane: One of the drawbacks of evolution is the slow rate of change. I wish I could say that in my lifetime humans will evolve to the point that sky wizard worship is eradicated.

Homosexual marriage hate on a tax-free dime. Don't kill babies, or we'll kill doctors. Evolution denial is the topper. I wish these days would pass.

However, if, as someone suggested above, the discount was for people throwing out bibles on the way in the door, or better yet, some charred gospel pages for a free appetizer, the religious would protest the restaurant into oblivion.

Fair and equal is all atheists want.

You're free to open your own restaurant and do it.


Not the point. Not at all.

I am well aware of what I am free to do. The point is that these terrorists** that live among us (tax free, no less) feel that strength in numbers excuses their mass stupidity. Theism in all forms needs to be abolished if there is any hope for mankind to advance.

I could not give less of a fark about 10 cents off their shiatty salad bar. It's the fact that the religious do and say what they want because the opposing voice is taboo.

**far from a troll attempt; define the word and prove me wrong.
 
2012-07-02 10:56:52 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: The question is whether someone proclaiming to be an atheist - who would not have a "current bulletin" - would be denied the discount if requested.


It's not much of a question. Current bulletin, current coupon, same damn thing. You're not required to be a church-going Christian to get the discount, nor are you required to believe in God. You're only required to turn in the slip of paper that qualifies you for the discount -- just like a coupon. No coupon, no discount.

FTA:

Prudhomme, who does not attend church due to her work schedule, said she told the group she operates an independent restaurant and suggested non church-goers can pick up bulletins from any church and bring them to the restaurant to cash in on the discount.

You'd have to s t r e t c h pretty damn far to call this discrimination. If it is, so are coupons, not to mention dozens of other promotions like this.
 
2012-07-02 10:56:54 PM  
Meh... as I see it, the problem is not that he's an atheist, but an asshole...
 
2012-07-02 10:56:55 PM  
Excellent differential pricing strategy be the owner of the diner!

It's very similar to the "Jack Benny Platter" deal. They don't offer that discount because they respect and admire senior citizens, they do it because, statistically, the elderly are more price sensitive - so they can pull them in with a discount, but still charge the younger people the higher price.

I feel bad for their wait staff, though. They are getting stiffed regularly on these days, you can be sure.
 
2012-07-02 10:56:59 PM  

AsprinBurn: Okay, that's it. I'm no longer calling myself an atheist. I'm just a guy. A guy who happens not to believe in all that nonsense, and by "all that nonsense", I'm throwing in atheism as well.

//Fark you, Atheism!


OK, Charles Manson was a white guy. I am officially declaring that I'm no longer white because that one guy was an asshole.

//Fark you, white people!

Oh wait, that sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it? Never mind.
 
2012-07-02 10:59:04 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Did you even read the statutes I posted? No, being required to have a current church bulletin even though you don't attend such a church is not valid (and neither is advertising as such). An atheist professing a sincerely held belief in atheism should not be required to steal or copy a religious bulletin, to essentially pretend to be religious, in order to obtain the discount.

And no, it's not of the likes of someone not clipping a coupon; coupons are not religious in nature.


Hmm, you seem to be a fundamentalist when it comes to "statutes."

Perhaps they are your own little book of scripture and we'll be damned if anything is going to shake you from your convictions.

Maybe you should get a group together on Sunday mornings and start publishing your own newsletter, a "bulletin" perhaps?
 
2012-07-02 10:59:18 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: AKTurkey: Salt Lick Steady: AKTurkey: Salt Lick Steady: AKTurkey: What's your point? Remind me again, which religious creed are atheists?

See my post above. The federal courts have long determined that lack of a religious creed IS a creed for the purpose of religious discrimination laws.

You cite a PA statute and then claim federal courts have determined lack of a religious creed IS a creed. Hey, that's awesome, but state courts own the interpretation of state statutes. Now I'm not saying that the federal constitution doesn't include a protection which trumps any state law or that PA courts haven't interpreted lack of religious creed to be a creed (who knows, west law it if you want), but your post makes no sense.

The 14th amendment - equal protection - applies to the states, genius.

You are correct that the 14th amendment applies equal protection to the states (it also incorporates the first amendment). It is also true that if there is an equal protection violation, any state law that allows the violation is unconstitutional unless it passes strict scrutiny. However, this still doesn't answer why you felt the need to post a PA statute which has nothing to do with the equal protection clause.

To make it easier for you, just read Wallace v Jaffree mentioned above. In sum, it invalidated a state law allowing for a "moment of silence or prayer" in part based on the principle that lack of religious belief constituted a creed that could be violated by such a state law. In this sense, the matter can be construed as both a first and a fourteenth amendment issue; states cannot pass laws that respect religious beliefs over lack of religious beliefs.


Still not seeing why you listed the state law and I have read Wallace v Jaffree in Con Law my first year at Michigan Law.
 
2012-07-02 10:59:27 PM  
What a farking douchebag. As an Atheist I fully support this PRIVATE BUSINESS on this one. Sure, their religious discount program would make me want to go someplace else, but that is what free enterprise is about. They are free to give discounts and I am free to go someplace else if I do not like that.

As for the ash-hole's complaint, he will lose in a heartbeat. They are not discriminating against anyone. Besides, most churches that I know have little bins just inside with the weekly programs. If the dude is so hung up on getting 10% off then he can park his car outside a church, run inside, grab a brochure, and go get his farking discount. And if not, someone please buy him some padded pants, because he is suffering from some serious butt hurt.
 
2012-07-02 10:59:31 PM  

Hershey Highway Patrol: So what would happen if you offered a discount for everyone who threw a bible in the trash when they walked in?


the Phelps klan picketing outside your establishment with their signs?
 
2012-07-02 10:59:43 PM  

FloydA: AbbeySomeone: FloydA: Sensei Can You See: he's another no-life-haver

FriarReb98: the stick up that atheist's butt must have a stick up its butt.


He's 80. Being grumpy for no good reason is his duty.

He's bored and lonely and working out his own issues with childhood religious abuse. That said, he should f*ck off and find another activity.

I agree. This is a stupid fight that was started by a senile old guy. Even though I agree with him that "god" is made up and religion is a bunch of nonsensical superstition, I agree with you that he should probably just sit the hell down and go back to watching Matlock. The restaurant has every right to give discounts to the superstitious people if they want to; it's their business. Atheists can just have all you can eat brunch someplace else if it really bothers them.



andyfromfl:

You might throw some of the last century's dictators in that extreme atheists category.


RY28:

Especially the mass genocide types .


Name a dictator who had people killed because they were not atheists.

Stalin had people killed because they were not Stalinists, although the Russian Orthodox church persisted through the Stalin era, so you can't use him as an example.

Mao had people killed because they were not Maoists, but Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, and many "folk" religions persisted in China during and after Mao's reign, so he's also not an example.

You might be able to make an argument that Pol Pot tried to eliminate religion in Kampuchea, although given the fact that the Khmer Rouge used religion as one of their primary categories for classifying people, it would be a tough argument to make.

So, given the fact that you can't use Stalin or Mao, and the use of Pol Pot is at best, tenuous, your argument that "atheism is the cause of genocide" is on rather shaky footings.

Unless you have some other examples that you would like to present of people who killed others because they were not atheists.

I'd be happy to hear of them ...


Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. "Just because we ask you to put your faith in the state and not God and kill you if oppose, guy".

Link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

I thought you Atheists were supposed to be much smarter than everyone else? Stop pretending your shiat has never stank.
 
2012-07-02 11:00:03 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: An atheist professing a sincerely held belief in atheism should not be required to steal or copy a religious bulletin, to essentially pretend to be religious, in order to obtain the discount.


You don't have to steal anything. They're there for the public to take. And you don't have to pretend anything, either. You're not being quizzed on your beliefs. You're turning in a freely available slip of paper. No more, no less.

And no, it's not of the likes of someone not clipping a coupon; coupons are not religious in nature.

Neither is turning in a slip of paper, if the paper has no meaning to you.
 
2012-07-02 11:00:37 PM  
Atheist are going to hell.
 
2012-07-02 11:01:01 PM  

MrCrazyInsane: strength in numbers excuses their mass stupidity


So now we're talking about getting a discount for wearing a Colt's jersey?
 
2012-07-02 11:01:22 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Never pass up a chance to fan the flames of hatred against atheists

/f*ck you, subby


Breaking: Christians find, complain about one atheist who's approximately as bigoted as many of them are. News at 10!!
 
2012-07-02 11:01:37 PM  

shoegaze99: You'd have to s t r e t c h pretty damn far to call this discrimination. If it is, so are coupons, not to mention dozens of other promotions like this.


No. Again, coupons are NOT religious in nature. It's not a matter of having a slip of paper; it's a matter of having a religious slip of paper.

And no, this likely wouldn't be a valid discrimination complaint if it can be shown that failure to have the piece of paper does not disqualify you from having the discount and you can prove to the court a sincerely held belief in atheism.
 
2012-07-02 11:01:59 PM  
they're a private business, they should be able to do whatever the hell they want. this guy is a tard.


he's never even been to the restaurant?
tard x2
 
2012-07-02 11:02:58 PM  

doctor wu: Atheist are going to hell.


To hear them biatch you'd think theu already were in hell.
 
2012-07-02 11:03:03 PM  

MrCrazyInsane: Theism in all forms needs to be abolished if there is any hope for mankind to advance.


Perhaps we can assemble everyone who doesn't agree with you in one place?

Concentrate them, you know? In one place? We can call it a Camp of Concentration!

We will call you the Father... no too religious, what is that in German? That might work...
 
2012-07-02 11:03:19 PM  

Godscrack: Good. Hope she wins.


really? why on earth would you hope that?
 
2012-07-02 11:03:28 PM  

MrCrazyInsane: Theism in all forms needs to be abolished if there is any hope for mankind to advance.


I rest my case.
 
2012-07-02 11:03:54 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: FloydA: Marcus Aurelius:
I'm not far from there. I might have to walk in with a Playboy centerfold and tell them I'm from the Church of Tits and Ass. See what they say.

Interesting idea. Better yet, find some of the Subgeniuses or Discordians at Allbright or Harrisburg Area Comm. Coll. (there are always some) and whip up some Bob or Eris pamphlets. See if those get you a discount, or if it's only "the right" religions.

Hah. Walk in dressed as an Arab holding a piece of papyrus covered in Arabic writing, and start ALLAH HU AKBARing. THAT would be fun.


I would love to go in with a program from a synagogue and order some crawfish!
 
2012-07-02 11:04:58 PM  

doctor wu: Atheist are going to hell.


and letrole says atheism is a religion. What's your point?
 
2012-07-02 11:05:37 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: And no, this likely wouldn't be a valid discrimination complaint if it can be shown that failure to have the piece of paper does not disqualify you from having the discount and you can prove to the court a sincerely held belief in atheism.


Jesus bro, you need to borrow a couple of bucks or something?
 
2012-07-02 11:05:44 PM  

scottydoesntknow: BunkyBrewman: Bathia_Mapes: If the restaurant was run by the state I could see there being an issue, but it isn't. It's a privately owned, independent restaurant. Separation of church and state doesn't even factor in.

Having said that, I wonder if this organization has gone after Chick-fil-A yet. Do they even have restaurants in Pennsylvania?

Yes.

Last Sunday I passed one of the local Chick-fil-A's on a Sunday. The only people that were working around the restaurant were the landscapers.

So they don't work on Sunday cause of Jesus, but Jesús has to work on Sunday.


Jesus is Jewish. He gets Saturday off.
 
2012-07-02 11:06:19 PM  
There is actually settled case law on this base on the Civil Right Act of 1964.

If he sues, if he has standing, he'll win... eventually.
 
2012-07-02 11:06:28 PM  

AKTurkey: Still not seeing why you listed the state law and I have read Wallace v Jaffree in Con Law my first year at Michigan Law.


Wow. I'd hate to have you as a lawyer. Because this is a state law claim under the Pennsylvania human rights act, and states cannot define religious creed by excluding lack of religious creed due to federal law.

Get it now?
 
2012-07-02 11:06:30 PM  
Why is the restaurant trying to accumulate ammunition?
 
2012-07-02 11:07:46 PM  
Atheists need to quit whining about how private companies deal with religion. It's their own damned right to cater to whatever bullshiat they want.

Save the battles for when the government starts forcing religion down peoples throats. Half of the elected officials in this country think "religious freedom" means "worship jesus or die, terrorist" and that's a much bigger threat than some farking restaurant actually exercising freedom of religion properly.
 
2012-07-02 11:08:06 PM  

halfof33: MrCrazyInsane: Theism in all forms needs to be abolished if there is any hope for mankind to advance.

Perhaps we can assemble everyone who doesn't agree with you in one place?

Concentrate them, you know? In one place? We can call it a Camp of Concentration!

We will call you the Father... no too religious, what is that in German? That might work...


Ah yes, that card.

Yet, without religion, how might that whole thing have gone?

Please. History is riddled with religious conflict. Time to move on as a species.
 
2012-07-02 11:08:10 PM  

DoctorCal: Why is the restaurant trying to accumulate ammunition?


They actually burn them during the Black Masses they hold on the night of the full moon.
 
2012-07-02 11:08:13 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Good. Who gives a rat's wet asshole if this restaurant offers a discount to people who bring in church bulletins? They're allowed to do that. They could even put up a sign that says "Atheists/Non-Christians not allowed" and you still can't do jack or shiat about it. It's a private business, they can serve or refuse to serve whomever they want. Doesn't make it morally right, but that doesn't make it illegal, either.

Just find a church, grab a bulletin, and get your precious 10% discount if it means that much to you, you whiny little chucklefark.


Actually, private businesses that are open to the public are not allowed to discriminate based on age, gender, sex, physical handicap, or religion. That is actually a Federal Law. And, being an atheist is protected under the term "religion." So, they could not legally put up a sign saying "Atheists/Non-Christians not allowed." And while they are free to refuse service to any customer, they cannot do so because of the person's age, gender, sex, physical handicap, or religion. They can, however, refuse service for just about any other reason.
 
2012-07-02 11:08:18 PM  

Pathman: they're a private business, they should be able to do whatever the hell they want.2


So, a lunch counter with "WHITE ONLY" is just fine in your universe?
 
2012-07-02 11:08:18 PM  

Mock26: What a farking douchebag. As an Atheist I fully support this PRIVATE BUSINESS on this one. Sure, their religious discount program would make me want to go someplace else, but that is what free enterprise is about. They are free to give discounts and I am free to go someplace else if I do not like that.

As for the ash-hole's complaint, he will lose in a heartbeat. They are not discriminating against anyone. Besides, most churches that I know have little bins just inside with the weekly programs. If the dude is so hung up on getting 10% off then he can park his car outside a church, run inside, grab a brochure, and go get his farking discount. And if not, someone please buy him some padded pants, because he is suffering from some serious butt hurt.


i agree with most of this however personally i dont understand why a private business can't discriminate.

i for one wouldn't go eat at a "racist" restaurant. you are free to. i like having that choice. that's what freedom is.

freedom doesn't mean it's the government's job, role or even right to make you a better person.
 
2012-07-02 11:08:39 PM  

JonnyG: RealAmericanHero: I support any and all efforts against Christianity, whatever those may be. Bravo, 80 year old guy.

/and before you bring it up, I'm equally against all religion, but Christianity is the biggest problem here
//any saying "just let it go" is sort of like saying "just let people spread aids, it's their right"

The #1 reason "religion" was created was to unite large groups of people under a common set of morals and beliefs. I dare say that without "religion", we'd be in a lot worse state than we are. Religion is the reason things like murder are illegal. Killing other humans wasn't wrong or taboo until some random guy said it was and people ate it up. Religion is mind control and a necessary one at that. People simply are not capable of thinking for themselves, as is proved by religious followers themselves.


2/10...you did not address God in the Constitution. For shame it had promise.
 
2012-07-02 11:09:28 PM  

shoegaze99: Neither is turning in a slip of paper, if the paper has no meaning to you.


Who says a religious bulletin has no meaning to an atheist? It may likely have quite a distasteful meaning.

But of course that's not the point in the eyes of the law.
 
2012-07-02 11:10:17 PM  
Yay.

This. Thread. AGAIN.
 
2012-07-02 11:10:42 PM  
As an atheist, I am failing to see the issue here. The owner should be allowed to run their business as they see fit, which includes a church bulletin board discount program. It's not discrimination in any form

Also, all religions (and non-religions) have their factions of assholes
 
2012-07-02 11:12:03 PM  

halfof33: Salt Lick Steady: And no, this likely wouldn't be a valid discrimination complaint if it can be shown that failure to have the piece of paper does not disqualify you from having the discount and you can prove to the court a sincerely held belief in atheism.

Jesus bro, you need to borrow a couple of bucks or something?


Aw, you're so sweet! And cute. Sure, I'll start a paypal account just for your deposits, but you're responsible for cleaning the trollgunk out of the tubes.
 
2012-07-02 11:13:07 PM  

FloydA: Private business, not a First Amendment issue. If they were refusing service to atheists, I could understand a complaint,



i understand your point, but to me these two sentences contradict each other.
that business that you have identified as private should be free to refuse service to whomever the hell they want.

as for the bing bong in the article:
tfa
He said he became an atheist about 15 years ago when he became dismayed at the religious right.

so he lost his own beliefs because of how other people chose to believe? this guy sounds like an all around dumbass.
 
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