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(Salon)   Remember the slogan "The South shall rise again"? IT HAS RISEN AGAIN   (salon.com) divider line 324
    More: Scary, Patrick Henry, West Indies, Magna Carta, economic powers, southern culture, plantations  
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12547 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jul 2012 at 1:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 12:29:06 PM
I don't know if I agree with everything in that article...but this part is a fairly good description of the GOP elites and how they want to run the country:

When a Southern conservative talks about "losing his liberty," the loss of this absolute domination over the people and property under his control -- and, worse, the loss of status and the resulting risk of being held accountable for laws that he was once exempt from -- is what he's really talking about. In this view, freedom is a zero-sum game. Anything that gives more freedom and rights to lower-status people can't help but put serious limits on the freedom of the upper classes to use those people as they please. It cannot be any other way
 
2012-07-02 12:29:19 PM
This photo provided by the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles shows the design of a proposed Sons of the Confederacy license plate.

I'm not willing to wait around for them to secede from the Union.

Let's toss their asses out right goddamn now.
 
2012-07-02 12:32:49 PM
Secede you f*ckers
 
2012-07-02 12:32:52 PM
Hmm, article appears to be truncated on my browser.

The entire article is available here: Link
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-02 12:35:55 PM
Republicans tried to control the South with the Southern Strategy and it ended up controlling them.

Sounds pretty much on target. Civil War v2.0
 
2012-07-02 12:37:27 PM

vpb: Republicans tried to control the South with the Southern Strategy and it ended up controlling them.

Sounds pretty much on target. Civil War v2.0


I don't think we're quite there yet - and if this country DOES tip over into civil war, it won't be due to the actions of the GOP yahoos that does the trick.
 
2012-07-02 12:52:50 PM
He sure does make a lot of broad, sweeping generalizations in that article. He seems kinda mad too.

Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.

It's not quite that simple...
 
2012-07-02 12:53:56 PM
You mean when a government passes laws to empower a large group of people, there is always a smaller group of people that it disfranchises? Quick! Someone tell the Babylonians!

Does Salon just hire poli sci major drop outs to write their stories?
 
2012-07-02 12:54:27 PM
i258.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-02 12:57:37 PM
img443.imageshack.us

1 step forward, 2 steps back.
 
2012-07-02 01:00:20 PM

Silly Jesus: He sure does make a lot of broad, sweeping generalizations in that article. He seems kinda mad too.

Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.

It's not quite that simple...


there's a lot in that article that makes sense tho - a lot of Republicans do seem to view 'freedom' as a zero sum game. If they aren't free to loot and pillage at will then they believe that they're being oppressed. we've seen THAT viewpoint around fark often enough to know it's true!
 
2012-07-02 01:03:54 PM

Silly Jesus: Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.


Must be a Farker. That sounds about like a lot of the stuff I've read here.
 
2012-07-02 01:06:41 PM

Weaver95: Silly Jesus: He sure does make a lot of broad, sweeping generalizations in that article. He seems kinda mad too.

Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.

It's not quite that simple...

there's a lot in that article that makes sense tho - a lot of Republicans do seem to view 'freedom' as a zero sum game. If they aren't free to loot and pillage at will then they believe that they're being oppressed. we've seen THAT viewpoint around fark often enough to know it's true!


True, there are tidbits of good in the article, but they are overshadowed by the foaming at the mouth "southerners are the spawn of Satan while northerners are charitable angels" nonsense.

The author would be much more credible if he took a Xanax.
 
2012-07-02 01:09:45 PM

Silly Jesus:

True, there are tidbits of good in the article, but they are overshadowed by the foaming at the mouth "southerners are the spawn of Satan while northerners are charitable angels" nonsense.

The author would be much more credible if he took a Xanax.


you just don't like the implications of what that article says about the GOP elites.
 
2012-07-02 01:17:52 PM
I'm pretty sure the North did its share of crappy things too. Like union busting.

/not that the South was any better
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-02 01:20:12 PM
It is the old Agrarian vs Industrial sociecy conflict. That's why Republican policies seem like Third World policies. They basically are.
 
2012-07-02 01:27:55 PM

Weaver95: Silly Jesus: He sure does make a lot of broad, sweeping generalizations in that article. He seems kinda mad too.

Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.

It's not quite that simple...

there's a lot in that article that makes sense tho - a lot of Republicans do seem to view 'freedom' as a zero sum game. If they aren't free to loot and pillage at will then they believe that they're being oppressed. we've seen THAT viewpoint around fark often enough to know it's true!


That was probably the one big thing I took away from the article. All this talk of freedom is really all about preserving the status quo of their oppression to women and minorities. Religion and guns are used as a tool of control and suppression. The party therefore appeals to rednecks and fascists of all stripes, the police, military and ex-military, and of course white men. Companies and corporations as 'persons' serve their needs to 'own' someone while providing a shield against criminal prosecution.
 
2012-07-02 01:30:17 PM

vpb: It is the old Agrarian vs Industrial sociecy conflict. That's why Republican policies seem like Third World policies. They basically are.


I would argue it's 'Agrarian and Industrial' against Post-Industrial, with plenty of people in between.
 
2012-07-02 01:32:04 PM

vpb: Republicans tried to control the South with the Southern Strategy and it ended up controlling them.

Sounds pretty much on target. Civil War v2.0


The Union should borrow a page from the previous president and engage a pre-emptive strike on South Carolina.
 
2012-07-02 01:32:41 PM
How many times can these people be on the wrong side of history?
 
2012-07-02 01:33:44 PM
Yeah, liberty...

"Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?"

/ What Texans actually believe
// And wrote into law
/// And committed treason to enforce
//// Fark the south
 
2012-07-02 01:34:12 PM

Weaver95: I don't know if I agree with everything in that article...but this part is a fairly good description of the GOP elites and how they want to run RUIN the country:


FTFA
 
2012-07-02 01:34:40 PM
Area Man will be relieved that he no longer has to wait.
 
2012-07-02 01:34:51 PM
On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.
 
2012-07-02 01:36:48 PM
Hey, Texas, stop talking about secession and f*cking do it already. While you're at it, take Arizona, Oklahoma, Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, and North Carolina with you. You will all get the society to have been fantasizing about, and so will the rest of us. Everyone wins when you start take actions instead of just posturing like little biatches.
 
2012-07-02 01:38:12 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Hey, Texas, stop talking about secession and f*cking do it already. While you're at it, take Arizona, Oklahoma, Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, and North Carolina with you. You will all get the society to have been fantasizing about, and so will the rest of us. Everyone wins when you start take actions instead of just posturing like little biatches.


They'd last one week before being 'annexed' by the Mexican government 'over humanitarian reasons'.

And they know it.
 
2012-07-02 01:39:05 PM
FTA: "Sara Robinson is a trained social futurist and the editor of AlterNet's Vision page."

That's a very North degree.

/ok, a lot of what she says is right on, but the cool liberal intellectuals avoid grand narratives
 
2012-07-02 01:40:20 PM
The simple truth of the matter is, people have different moralities and social ideals. Many of the Northern ideals involve doing better for other people, equality for all regardless of effort, and making others see their point of view. Much of the South believes that there is a definite order to the world, value and reward hard work, and knowing your place in the world.

These two ideals will ALWAYS come into conflict with each other. They just will. Playing the "who-did-what" game won't make it any better.

\the rest of the country also has their own ideals, but this is just the pertinent parts
 
2012-07-02 01:40:36 PM

Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.


Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.
 
2012-07-02 01:41:50 PM
yeehaw, does this mean that the NFL and NBA no longer have exclusive rights to the slavery trade?
 
2012-07-02 01:42:00 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Hey, Texas, stop talking about secession and f*cking do it already. While you're at it, take Arizona, Oklahoma, Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, and North Carolina with you. You will all get the society to have been fantasizing about, and so will the rest of us. Everyone wins when you start take actions instead of just posturing like little biatches.


Hey man, I get where you're coming from. I do. But here's the thing, there are a lot of us in Texas that don't like how insanely conservative our government is. We hate Perry. We haven't been satisfied since Richards was in office. We're ashamed to be associated with W. We're ashamed of how a bunch of rich, asshole oil men have f*cked up politics in this country.

But make no mistake, we're just as American as you are, and don't want to be part of another country just because we share a state with a bunch of pricks. They outnumber us, and that's sad, but we're still American citizens, and we want to stay that way. Hell, I like Texas. I like the sh*tty hot weather. I like the open sky. I like the trees and the scrubby brush and even the sh*tty giant grackles. Because it's my home. I can tolerate the crazy asshole Republicans because I'm smart enough to avoid them and I have no intention of letting them educate my kids. But I ain't leaving the United States.
 
2012-07-02 01:42:57 PM
Liberals:

photo.shockya.com

You sure gotta pretty mouth.
 
2012-07-02 01:43:03 PM

Rent Party: Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.

Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.


My god that is awesome! There was a day when some Colonel Sanders mustachioed Suthroner might slap at you with a glove over that!
 
2012-07-02 01:43:52 PM

Weaver95: Silly Jesus: He sure does make a lot of broad, sweeping generalizations in that article. He seems kinda mad too.

Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.

It's not quite that simple...

there's a lot in that article that makes sense tho - a lot of Republicans do seem to view 'freedom' as a zero sum game. If they aren't free to loot and pillage at will then they believe that they're being oppressed. we've seen THAT viewpoint around fark often enough to know it's true!


Kinda like how the left view money as a zero sum game. Them rich people have money and are therefore holding us down!
 
2012-07-02 01:43:57 PM

Rent Party: Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.

Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.


Well, the fact that he burned his way across Georgia, looting the whole way to support his army has 'something' to do with his reputation, I think.
 
2012-07-02 01:46:27 PM

Rent Party: Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.

Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.


Now, now, let's be fair. John Bell Hood was very busy getting his own troops slaughtered through gross incompetence at the time.
 
2012-07-02 01:46:37 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Hey, Texas, stop talking about secession and f*cking do it already. While you're at it, take Arizona, Oklahoma, Kansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, and North Carolina with you. You will all get the society to have been fantasizing about, and so will the rest of us. Everyone wins when you start take actions instead of just posturing like little biatches.

Hey man, I get where you're coming from. I do. But here's the thing, there are a lot of us in Texas that don't like how insanely conservative our government is. We hate Perry. We haven't been satisfied since Richards was in office. We're ashamed to be associated with W. We're ashamed of how a bunch of rich, asshole oil men have f*cked up politics in this country.

But make no mistake, we're just as American as you are, and don't want to be part of another country just because we share a state with a bunch of pricks. They outnumber us, and that's sad, but we're still American citizens, and we want to stay that way. Hell, I like Texas. I like the sh*tty hot weather. I like the open sky. I like the trees and the scrubby brush and even the sh*tty giant grackles. Because it's my home. I can tolerate the crazy asshole Republicans because I'm smart enough to avoid them and I have no intention of letting them educate my kids. But I ain't leaving the United States.


Nobody said there wouldn't be any sacrifices ;)
 
2012-07-02 01:46:55 PM
Yeah, this particular type of person is running the GOP, but this model is running on borrowed time. There simply aren't enough aging white Southern conservatives to make this posture sustainable after this election cycle. They're not making any more 63 year-olds from Macon.
 
2012-07-02 01:48:29 PM
20prospect.files.wordpress.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-02 01:50:27 PM

bdub77: vpb: It is the old Agrarian vs Industrial sociecy conflict. That's why Republican policies seem like Third World policies. They basically are.

I would argue it's 'Agrarian and Industrial' against Post-Industrial, with plenty of people in between.


Still the same thing. Traditional society vs modern, conservative vs liberal, progressive vs regressive. Same thing.

The point is that this is nothing unique to the US. Modern industrialized countries are the ones where the traditional/agrarian interests lost. That's why "Banana Republics" are called that. That's what the south was except with cotton instead of bananas.
 
2012-07-02 01:51:14 PM

derpdeederp:
Kinda like how the left view money as a zero sum game. Them rich people have money and are therefore holding us down!


What's your solution -print more?
 
2012-07-02 01:51:18 PM

Silly Jesus: He sure does make a lot of broad, sweeping generalizations in that article. He seems kinda mad too.

Everyone from the north was good and charitable. Everyone from the south was Satan.

It's not quite that simple...


It didn't see the sweeping generalizations that you did. The author states at the outset of her article:

"For most of our history, American economics, culture and politics have been dominated by a New England-based Yankee aristocracy that was rooted in Puritan communitarian values, educated at the Ivies and marinated in an ethic ofnoblesse oblige (the conviction that those who possess wealth and power are morally bound to use it for the betterment of society). While they've done their share of damage to the notion of democracy in the name of profit (as all financial elites inevitably do), this group has, for the most part, tempered its predatory instincts with a code that valued mass education and human rights; held up public service as both a duty and an honor; and imbued them with the belief that once you made your nut, you had a moral duty to do something positive with it for the betterment of mankind."
 
2012-07-02 01:51:40 PM
This photo provided by the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles shows the design of a proposed Sons of the Confederacy license plate. (AP/Texas Department of Motor Vehicles)

But we're talking about the Party of Lincoln, right?

They would never go around saying stuff like, "The spirit of Jefferson Davis lives in the Republican platform," or ""We don't do Lincoln Day Dinners in North Carolina. It's nothing personal, but it takes a while to get over things," or "Your magazine also helps set the record straight. You've got a heritage of doing that, of defending Southern patriots like [Robert E.] Lee, [Stonewall] Jackson and [Confederate President Jefferson] Davis. Traditionalists must do more. I've got to do more. We've all got to stand up and speak in this respect, or else we'll be taught that these people were giving their lives, subscribing their sacred fortunes and their honor to some perverted agenda."
 
2012-07-02 01:52:03 PM

Infernalist: Rent Party: Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.

Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.

Well, the fact that he burned his way across Georgia, looting the whole way to support his army has 'something' to do with his reputation, I think.


Sherman, was a pacifist, but a deeply practical one:

"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace.

War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.
 
2012-07-02 01:53:06 PM

Infernalist: Rent Party: Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.

Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.

Well, the fact that he burned his way across Georgia, looting the whole way to support his army has 'something' to do with his reputation, I think.


That there, what you just said, ain't true. He burned storehouses and supplies that might be used to resupply the confederate army, which is what any responsible army commander might do. The entire point of that expedition was to break the back of the Confederate supply lines keeping Lee's army alive. "Hey boss, we found all this feed and fodder that the Rebs can use after we leave. I think we should leave it here because someone might think you're mean if we destroy it." He did feel like it was justice to rebels, and in a way, it was.

Sherman completed his operation in December, and was going to head north in the spring. Lee cut and ran from Richmond in April. That is not coincidental. You will note that in that winter, there was no great famine or starvation. Sherman left plenty for those poor oppressed plantation owners to eat.
 
2012-07-02 01:54:26 PM
They'll quiet down when the president isn't black anymore.
 
2012-07-02 01:54:27 PM
Just let the South go. Seriously, other than Texas oil and launching stuff into space from Florida, what more do they contribute? Most of their states are leeches off the Federal government anyway. They want to live like a third-world country then I say we let them.
 
2012-07-02 01:54:43 PM

Rent Party: Infernalist: On a side note, the mere thought of Sherman in control of nuclear weapons instinctively terrifies me.

It could be the fact that I was born in in the South.

Well, Sherman as an Earth salting Hulk smash monster is a creation of the South. The reality is that he pretty much went unopposed from Atlanta to Savannah because the Confederate Army (with a few noted exceptions, Wheeler, etc..) refused to engage him. He took Savannah unopposed after the defending garrison snuck out in the middle of the night.

Southerners need Sherman to be a monster because it covers up the very real fact that they failed to defend themselves, choosing to run instead.


Also, when you're obviously lagging behind your Norhtern Neighbors it's easier to believe in some fictional myth of being one step behind from having to reconstruct your devastated war torn ruins, rather than admit that your entire economy was dependent on slave labor that no longer exists
 
2012-07-02 01:56:03 PM

HotWingConspiracy: They'll quiet down when the president isn't black anymore.


i'm not so sure. look - Justice Roberts was ONE OF THEM - and he betrayed The Cause. You simply just do not do that sort of thing and expect to walk away. the Republicans will have to find a way to punish Roberts. They *have* to go after him. they can't let someone just snub the GOP agenda and get away with it.
 
2012-07-02 01:56:51 PM

Weaver95: I don't know if I agree with everything in that article...but this part is a fairly good description of the GOP elites and how they want to run the country:

When a Southern conservative talks about "losing his liberty," the loss of this absolute domination over the people and property under his control -- and, worse, the loss of status and the resulting risk of being held accountable for laws that he was once exempt from -- is what he's really talking about. In this view, freedom is a zero-sum game. Anything that gives more freedom and rights to lower-status people can't help but put serious limits on the freedom of the upper classes to use those people as they please. It cannot be any other way


Not just the elites; that's precisely how the rank-and-file justify their opposition to gay marriage as "threatening" their own marriages. They see the expansion of basic rights to gay couples as themselves losing the privilege of inflicting punishment on a group they despise.
 
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