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(The Verge)   Want a smart phone OS that is completely open, standards based, polished and respects your privacy? You may finally get your wish in the near future   (theverge.com) divider line 54
    More: Cool, operating systems, Chrome OS, Deutsche Telekom, smartphones, standard bases  
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6355 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Jul 2012 at 1:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 12:18:12 PM
Consumers don't care about privacy. They say they do, but they really don't. They want shiny apps and gizmos to distract themselves with.
 
2012-07-02 01:31:38 PM
For some reason this brought up the memory of my Sharp Zaurus PDA back in the day.

"Cool, I have linux on a PDA! Now what?"

That's not to belittle the efforts of the Mozilla team. But making a phone ecosystem is no small feat. I hope it's functional and successful.
 
2012-07-02 01:31:42 PM
And doodads. Don't skimp on the doodads.
 
2012-07-02 01:32:33 PM
Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.
 
2012-07-02 01:33:14 PM
Well, subby, at least until VZW gets a hold of it.
 
2012-07-02 01:35:54 PM
Well current gen smartphones do tend to have at least a half gig of ram, so they should be 'okay' on that front.
 
2012-07-02 01:38:35 PM
You'll need the Windows Task Manager App installed to actually shut the phone off though.
 
2012-07-02 01:39:24 PM
Oh goody,l something that matches the speed and breadth of applications offered by WebOS with the svelteness of Firefox.

I wonder if it will stop to update itself every time I run it like Firefox does?
 
2012-07-02 01:39:34 PM

the_geek: Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.


The smaller mobile OSes simply don't have enough critical mass to challenge either iOS or Android at the moment. Look at webOS. Look at RIM.
 
2012-07-02 01:44:04 PM

MightyPez: For some reason this brought up the memory of my Sharp Zaurus PDA back in the day.

"Cool, I have linux on a PDA! Now what?"

That's not to belittle the efforts of the Mozilla team. But making a phone ecosystem is no small feat. I hope it's functional and successful.


Ha, yup. My SL-6000 is in a drawer somewhere. Having a legitimate serial cable and keyboard made if nifty for debugging other equipment, but that was about it.
 
2012-07-02 01:46:36 PM

RexTalionis: Consumers don't care about privacy. They say they do, but they really don't. They want shiny apps and gizmos to distract themselves with.


I don't even say I want privacy anymore. I know that the best you get is an illusion. So, yeah, take my info and sell it away but please give me more interesting and relevant ads in its place.
 
2012-07-02 01:48:30 PM
I used Firefox for many, many years through the whole "firebird" naming fiasco and back to Mozilla before it forked. I just dropped it this weekend because it spent most of the weekend resetting TCP sessions to random websites for no apparent reason until I cleared the cache. Toss in the fact that I'd already been fairly annoyed at their "release a batch of bug fixes and call it a new version every 22 seconds" philosophy and I got fed up enough to stop using it altogether.

Now I'm stuck with Opera until I find something better (and, no, Chrome is not better... nothing offered by Google is better. Ever).
 
2012-07-02 01:50:19 PM

RexTalionis: Consumers don't care about privacy. They say they do, but they really don't.


They do care, but most will put in only minimal effort to achieve it. Businesses just ensure that they stay just above that threshold.
 
2012-07-02 01:50:33 PM
I wonder if I can run this on the palm pre collecting dust on my desk?
 
2012-07-02 01:50:45 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I used Firefox for many, many years through the whole "firebird" naming fiasco and back to Mozilla before it forked. I just dropped it this weekend because it spent most of the weekend resetting TCP sessions to random websites for no apparent reason until I cleared the cache. Toss in the fact that I'd already been fairly annoyed at their "release a batch of bug fixes and call it a new version every 22 seconds" philosophy and I got fed up enough to stop using it altogether.

Now I'm stuck with Opera until I find something better (and, no, Chrome is not better... nothing offered by Google is better. Ever).


Chrome is better. Also, google.com is better than whateveryouuse.com
 
2012-07-02 01:51:15 PM
 
2012-07-02 01:54:37 PM
Remember when all the neckbeards on Fark were championing OpenMoko?

I do.
 
2012-07-02 01:57:00 PM
If they actually pull this off (i.e, make something functionally equivalent to iOS or Android), it's about the only thing that would pull me away from Android.

That being said, I don't think they'll pull this off.
 
2012-07-02 02:00:47 PM

ProfessorOhki: Ha, yup. My SL-6000 is in a drawer somewhere. Having a legitimate serial cable and keyboard made if nifty for debugging other equipment, but that was about it.


Maybe I'll dig my SL-5500 out of the crawl space. I think it still has the CF 802.11b adapter in it...
 
2012-07-02 02:04:38 PM
"By aping Google's desktop Chrome OS and focusing solely on web-based, HTML5 applications, the platform aims to offer a consistent experience across a wide range of hardware, stripping out what the foundation terms "unnecessary middleware layers.""

Yeah, but Chrome OS has flopped and running every app on top of a web browser is a prime example of an unnecessary middleware layer.
 
2012-07-02 02:04:39 PM

the_geek: Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.


I disagree.

*Some* competition is good.
*More* competition isn't.

Sure, the companies involved will all pay some lip-service to 'standards' but they'll all implement the 'standards' differently, spin-off their own way to do stuff, and have implementation gaps. Ultimately, it means the market will be fragmented. Developers will spend time and money jumping through hoops to get things to work 'for everyone'. Only the most mainstream things will work on all the phones. The stuff you want to do may or may not work on your phone. Supporting these phones will be a nightmare too.

Two or three is plenty.

We have Symbian, BlackBerry, iOS, Android, Bada and Windows...and now we've got FireFox OS coming.

And it's not like these are individual things. People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android. So a company can't just write something that runs great on 'Android'. Each new version of Android adds new and cool stuff that everyone not running the new version can't use.

1.androidauthority.com

Same with all the others.
 
2012-07-02 02:20:17 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I used Firefox for many, many years through the whole "firebird" naming fiasco and back to Mozilla before it forked. I just dropped it this weekend because it spent most of the weekend resetting TCP sessions to random websites for no apparent reason until I cleared the cache. Toss in the fact that I'd already been fairly annoyed at their "release a batch of bug fixes and call it a new version every 22 seconds" philosophy and I got fed up enough to stop using it altogether.

Now I'm stuck with Opera until I find something better (and, no, Chrome is not better... nothing offered by Google is better. Ever).


LOL...yeah. When I finally got fed up with Firefox 11/12/13's antics I simply uninstalled it and reinstalled FF 7.0.1. Problem solved. No need to go to Chrome, Opera or IE.
 
2012-07-02 02:20:53 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Two or three is plenty.


I'd say that three or four is about the threshold for fragmentation. Unless the platforms have some common APIs, anymore than that becomes a headache.


Fark_Guy_Rob: People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android.


As somebody running 2.3.7, I'm not getting a kick out of this.

I tried one of the nightly builds of Cyanogenmod 9 (which is based on Android 4.0.x) and it was zippy enough on my Galaxy S. But it will be some time before we see a stable, bug-fixed release of Cyanogenmod 9. Meanwhile, Google is already on Android 4.1.

I know damn well that my carrier will never release an official Android 4.0.x update for my phone. They want you to buy a new one with that lovely 2-year contract lock. And the independent groups are having a hard time keeping up with Google's release schedule.

I expect Android fragmentation to only get worse.
 
2012-07-02 02:24:21 PM
But will you have to restart it every couple hours due to memory leaks?
 
2012-07-02 02:24:51 PM
Firefox OS

It will start off small and nimble and then Mozilla will push out updates every 26 days that will make it bloated and unstable.

/posted from chrome
 
2012-07-02 02:48:07 PM
It would be nice if some cute puzzle game didn't have access to the contents of your SD card and contact list...
/JUST SAYIN'
 
2012-07-02 02:58:03 PM

the_geek: Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.


You capitalist shill you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
2012-07-02 03:00:57 PM

MightyPez: ProfessorOhki: Ha, yup. My SL-6000 is in a drawer somewhere. Having a legitimate serial cable and keyboard made if nifty for debugging other equipment, but that was about it.

Maybe I'll dig my SL-5500 out of the crawl space. I think it still has the CF 802.11b adapter in it...


Bah, you 5500 guys got all the cool stuff. By the time the 6000 came around, they community was sort of, "We figured everything out from scratch and you can too."
 
2012-07-02 03:04:33 PM

zvoidx: It would be nice if some cute puzzle game didn't have access to the contents of your SD card and contact list...
/JUST SAYIN'


If it saves progress to the SD card rather than THE CLOUD, it needs access to the card. Your contacts list is for that "find friends who also play" thing.

Every app you've installed on your PC has full access to every file on your PC, yet there's a distinct lack of outrage. Well, excepting some of the more intrusive DRM schemes at least. It's like it being on a phone somehow made people aware of all these privacy concerns that have always been there.
 
2012-07-02 03:08:53 PM

zvoidx: It would be nice if some cute puzzle game didn't have access to the contents of your SD card and contact list...
/JUST SAYIN'


and full internet access and access to your messages and call history...
 
2012-07-02 03:09:28 PM

the_geek: Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.


You consume wee?
 
2012-07-02 03:19:59 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: the_geek: Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.

I disagree.

*Some* competition is good.
*More* competition isn't.

Sure, the companies involved will all pay some lip-service to 'standards' but they'll all implement the 'standards' differently, spin-off their own way to do stuff, and have implementation gaps. Ultimately, it means the market will be fragmented. Developers will spend time and money jumping through hoops to get things to work 'for everyone'. Only the most mainstream things will work on all the phones. The stuff you want to do may or may not work on your phone. Supporting these phones will be a nightmare too.

Two or three is plenty.

We have Symbian, BlackBerry, iOS, Android, Bada and Windows...and now we've got FireFox OS coming.

And it's not like these are individual things. People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android. So a company can't just write something that runs great on 'Android'. Each new version of Android adds new and cool stuff that everyone not running the new version can't use.

[1.androidauthority.com image 460x250]

Same with all the others.


Not really. I used to do mobile app development for a living. Our app is for both iPhone and Android, and we spent 90% of our time dealing with Android issues. Writing for iOS 4 literally covered 98% of all iOS devices. To get to even 90% of Android devices, you'd need to write for 2.3.3, 2.2, and one of 4.0 or 2.1 - and note that 2.3.3 means 2.3.3, not 2.3.x. To get to 98%, you'd need to write for 2.1, 2.3.3, 2.2. 3.2, and 4.0. You also need to understand that the different API versions in Android are more different than you'd think, and that the approved way to do certain relatively important things can vary from "not really possible in this version" to "fairly difficult" to "easy".

Add in to that that Android devices have vastly different screen sizes, may or may not have hardware keyboards, may or may not have decent graphics accelerators, may or may not have trackballs, may or may not have multiple cores, may or may not have a bolted-on user interface from the handset manufacturer, may or may not be drastically limited by the carrier....

Yeah, I'm not a huge Apple fan, but their forcing of carriers and hardware manufacturers to support what Apple wanted on the iPhone instead of what the carrier or manufacturer wanted made development much, much easier and was probably just a big a contributor to Apple's "winning" the app war than the head start.
 
2012-07-02 03:21:13 PM

ProfessorOhki: zvoidx: It would be nice if some cute puzzle game didn't have access to the contents of your SD card and contact list...
/JUST SAYIN'

If it saves progress to the SD card rather than THE CLOUD, it needs access to the card. Your contacts list is for that "find friends who also play" thing.

Every app you've installed on your PC has full access to every file on your PC, yet there's a distinct lack of outrage. Well, excepting some of the more intrusive DRM schemes at least. It's like it being on a phone somehow made people aware of all these privacy concerns that have always been there.


That's not entirely true. I realize for a lot of people there might not be a difference; but there are a lot of options for PC users that don't exist on the phone-oses (at least not yet).

With my cell phone I can either 'Accept' the app's permission request or I can choose not to use the app. And, a malicious app (at least in theory) only needs to make my phone dial a number for me to be billed by my phone company.

With my PC I can keep my information in non-standard locations, I can run the application in a virtual machine, I can run the application as a user with restricted access to the file-system, I can store my important information so that it is encrypted, I can run other software (like a Firewall) that prevents the application from phoning home....and, because (without my credit card number) my PC is incapable of racking up a bill for me - I have less to worry about.

Smart phones are really amazing; but in so many ways it feels like paying someone to beat me up and take my lunch money.
 
2012-07-02 03:24:56 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Smart phones are really amazing; but in so many ways it feels like paying someone to beat me up and take my lunch money.


Or to put it another way, its a brand new frontier and just like the days of win98 vs the first generation of broadband connections talking to this 'internet' thing: Its gonna be a bumpy ride for a while.

/haven't bought smartphone yet
//waiting for more dust to settle
 
2012-07-02 03:25:59 PM

Lord Dimwit: Fark_Guy_Rob: the_geek: Even if it doesn't "win" I hope it becomes big enough to demand a decent alternative to iOS/Android. More competition is good for us wee consumers.

I disagree.

*Some* competition is good.
*More* competition isn't.

Sure, the companies involved will all pay some lip-service to 'standards' but they'll all implement the 'standards' differently, spin-off their own way to do stuff, and have implementation gaps. Ultimately, it means the market will be fragmented. Developers will spend time and money jumping through hoops to get things to work 'for everyone'. Only the most mainstream things will work on all the phones. The stuff you want to do may or may not work on your phone. Supporting these phones will be a nightmare too.

Two or three is plenty.

We have Symbian, BlackBerry, iOS, Android, Bada and Windows...and now we've got FireFox OS coming.

And it's not like these are individual things. People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android. So a company can't just write something that runs great on 'Android'. Each new version of Android adds new and cool stuff that everyone not running the new version can't use.

[1.androidauthority.com image 460x250]

Same with all the others.

Not really. I used to do mobile app development for a living. Our app is for both iPhone and Android, and we spent 90% of our time dealing with Android issues. Writing for iOS 4 literally covered 98% of all iOS devices. To get to even 90% of Android devices, you'd need to write for 2.3.3, 2.2, and one of 4.0 or 2.1 - and note that 2.3.3 means 2.3.3, not 2.3.x. To get to 98%, you'd need to write for 2.1, 2.3.3, 2.2. 3.2, and 4.0. You also need to understand that the different API versions in Android are more different than you'd think, and that the approved way to do certain relatively important things can vary from "not really possible in this version" to "fairly difficult" to "easy".

Add in to that that Android devices have vastly differe ...


I agree 100% that iOS is light-years ahead of Android in that regard. But from what I've heard Windows phones will be segregated into Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 devices. Symbian has Symbian^2 and Symbian^3/Anna/Belle

etc, etc...
 
2012-07-02 03:28:13 PM

Dinjiin: RexTalionis: Consumers don't care about privacy. They say they do, but they really don't.

They do care, but most will put in only minimal effort to achieve it. Businesses just ensure that they stay just above that threshold.


I care only inasmuch as my search history will never be revealed. Releasing my address and favorite search terms would probably result in my suicide. I imagine the torch-and-pitchfork crowd will show up anyway in case I chicken out, but the military will surely nuke my place from orbit, just to be sure.

\"His laptop survived the conflagration!"
\\"Stab it with your pitchfork!"
 
hej
2012-07-02 03:47:23 PM
It isn't a smartphone if there aren't apps you can install for it. And I don't foresee many people making apps for yet another phone ecosystem.
 
2012-07-02 03:53:41 PM
This was what they said about MeeGo.

I'll believe it when I see it.
 
2012-07-02 04:07:51 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: (and, no, Chrome is not better... nothing offered by Google is better. Ever).


YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!!

/I keed.
//Google fanatic.
///Privacy is an illusion anyway.
 
2012-07-02 04:17:11 PM

JustHereForThePics: Well, subby, at least until VZW gets a hold of it.


Get a Windows Phone from VZW, WP7.5 Mango is really nice and part of Microsoft's deal with all carriers is that proprietary shiat-ware must be easily fully uninstalled.

I really like the Metro UI, has great hardware and long battery life.

Fark the apps, I really just need a phone, messaging, and web. Seriously, what else do you need?
 
2012-07-02 04:20:20 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: ProfessorOhki: zvoidx: It would be nice if some cute puzzle game didn't have access to the contents of your SD card and contact list...
/JUST SAYIN'

If it saves progress to the SD card rather than THE CLOUD, it needs access to the card. Your contacts list is for that "find friends who also play" thing.

Every app you've installed on your PC has full access to every file on your PC, yet there's a distinct lack of outrage. Well, excepting some of the more intrusive DRM schemes at least. It's like it being on a phone somehow made people aware of all these privacy concerns that have always been there.

That's not entirely true. I realize for a lot of people there might not be a difference; but there are a lot of options for PC users that don't exist on the phone-oses (at least not yet).

With my cell phone I can either 'Accept' the app's permission request or I can choose not to use the app. And, a malicious app (at least in theory) only needs to make my phone dial a number for me to be billed by my phone company.

With my PC I can keep my information in non-standard locations, I can run the application in a virtual machine, I can run the application as a user with restricted access to the file-system, I can store my important information so that it is encrypted, I can run other software (like a Firewall) that prevents the application from phoning home....and, because (without my credit card number) my PC is incapable of racking up a bill for me - I have less to worry about.

Smart phones are really amazing; but in so many ways it feels like paying someone to beat me up and take my lunch money.


But you can do all that stuff with custom firmware (well, maybe not the same level of virtualization quite yet). I know, I know: most users run stock firmware. Most users also run default firewall settings, don't sandbox anything, etc. When something asks to run as admin, they're just going to click "ok."

I'll give you the billing one though, 900-numbers and premium SMS are things I really wasn't considering. Then again, back in the glory days of dial-up modems, there was modem-jacking.

As far as the lunch money bit; I sadly agree, but my rage is directed more towards the network providers than anyone else.
 
2012-07-02 04:24:16 PM

aspAddict: Vegan Meat Popsicle: (and, no, Chrome is not better... nothing offered by Google is better. Ever).

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!!

/I keed.
//Google fanatic.
///Privacy is an illusion anyway.


Eh.... just because I can't stop them doesn't mean I have to help them.
 
2012-07-02 04:31:13 PM

Dinjiin: Fark_Guy_Rob: Two or three is plenty.

I'd say that three or four is about the threshold for fragmentation. Unless the platforms have some common APIs, anymore than that becomes a headache.


Fark_Guy_Rob: People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android.

As somebody running 2.3.7, I'm not getting a kick out of this.

I tried one of the nightly builds of Cyanogenmod 9 (which is based on Android 4.0.x) and it was zippy enough on my Galaxy S. But it will be some time before we see a stable, bug-fixed release of Cyanogenmod 9. Meanwhile, Google is already on Android 4.1.

I know damn well that my carrier will never release an official Android 4.0.x update for my phone. They want you to buy a new one with that lovely 2-year contract lock. And the independent groups are having a hard time keeping up with Google's release schedule.

I expect Android fragmentation to only get worse.


RC1 is out and its pretty good. Give it a try.

/CM9
 
2012-07-02 04:47:16 PM

ChubbyTiger: Dinjiin: Fark_Guy_Rob: Two or three is plenty.

I'd say that three or four is about the threshold for fragmentation. Unless the platforms have some common APIs, anymore than that becomes a headache.


Fark_Guy_Rob: People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android.

As somebody running 2.3.7, I'm not getting a kick out of this.

I tried one of the nightly builds of Cyanogenmod 9 (which is based on Android 4.0.x) and it was zippy enough on my Galaxy S. But it will be some time before we see a stable, bug-fixed release of Cyanogenmod 9. Meanwhile, Google is already on Android 4.1.

I know damn well that my carrier will never release an official Android 4.0.x update for my phone. They want you to buy a new one with that lovely 2-year contract lock. And the independent groups are having a hard time keeping up with Google's release schedule.

I expect Android fragmentation to only get worse.

RC1 is out and its pretty good. Give it a try.

/CM9


Not for a lot of devices. I'm using Andromadus Beta 5 on my G2 right now; it's not bad, but the GPS barely works.

People underestimate the amount of stuff that changed between 2.3 and 4.0. Practically the entire driver model is different.
 
2012-07-02 05:37:21 PM
I loves me some Mozilla but I envision the OS wanting to update three times a day.
 
2012-07-02 05:45:45 PM

ChubbyTiger: RC1 is out and its pretty good. Give it a try.


Only the nightly builds of CM9 are available for my phone. I'm on 7.2-RC3 right now.
 
2012-07-02 05:56:37 PM

RexTalionis: Consumers don't care about privacy. They say they do, but they really don't. They want shiny apps and gizmos to distract themselves with.



Standard privacy policy is full of legalese, it really needs to be simplified for Joe and Jane Netgoer. The internet isn't just for geeks anymore who are savvy to shiat like this, now all your aunts and grandmas are connected, people who don't know much about PC operation besides pushing the power button and double clicking the browser shortcut on the desktop. Before these fairly recent mass privacy concerns, Google or Facebook didn't explicitly state what they would be doing with your information unless you wanted to wade through that legalese and all that terms of use shiat. Do you actually read the whole terms of use and EULA of EVERYTHING online? If you do, you're in the vast minority.

Google wouldnt have had any privacy flareups like earlier in the year if they actually stated their whole intentions from the get go. Listen, we're going to save the information we get about you from your behavior on our website, and use it to tailor advertisements to you. We're a business, and we're funded by advertisers, and they pay us good money for the data we collect on you. In turn, we display the most relevant data with advertisements for you that you might actually buy. Sounds fair to me.

I don't know about Facebook but I bet they don't have something like that, and they certainly didnt before the privacy debacle if they do now.
 
2012-07-02 06:14:25 PM

Dinjiin: Fark_Guy_Rob: Two or three is plenty.

I'd say that three or four is about the threshold for fragmentation. Unless the platforms have some common APIs, anymore than that becomes a headache.


Fark_Guy_Rob: People don't run 'Android' - they run a specific version of Android.

As somebody running 2.3.7, I'm not getting a kick out of this.

I tried one of the nightly builds of Cyanogenmod 9 (which is based on Android 4.0.x) and it was zippy enough on my Galaxy S. But it will be some time before we see a stable, bug-fixed release of Cyanogenmod 9. Meanwhile, Google is already on Android 4.1.

I know damn well that my carrier will never release an official Android 4.0.x update for my phone. They want you to buy a new one with that lovely 2-year contract lock. And the independent groups are having a hard time keeping up with Google's release schedule.

I expect Android fragmentation to only get worse.


I'm running cyanogen 9 (4.0x) beta I believe dual booting webos on an HP tablet. It is very stable imo. I rarely get a reboot and never errors. They even got netflix working properly. I haven't messed with the nightlies though. The version I am using runs great.
 
2012-07-02 06:17:57 PM

HeartBurnKid: This was what they said about MeeGo.

I'll believe it when I see it.


Maemo does all of that on my N900. Lovely phone.
 
2012-07-02 07:07:19 PM

Gordon Bennett: HeartBurnKid: This was what they said about MeeGo.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Maemo does all of that on my N900. Lovely phone.


50 years from now we will still be hearing about the N900, the phone that nobody owns.
 
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