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(Detroit Free Press)   Don't go downrange when your buddy's trying to clear his jammed AK-47, mmmkay?   (freep.com) divider line 178
    More: Dumbass, gun ranges, intelligent design, Livingston County  
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10981 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2012 at 10:34 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 11:20:09 AM
Lubricating his AK? Is THAT what it's called now? Kinky.



/member of SPSHG


//"stupid people shouldn't have guns"
 
2012-07-02 11:21:09 AM
Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.
 
2012-07-02 11:21:16 AM

dittybopper: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

Why, because tanks and jets that are "not particularly useful against an insurgency" in a foreign land suddenly become useful when used against a domestic insurgency?

You don't have to be able to *WIN*, you just have to make it so potentially expensive that they won't try it in the first place.


Hes not thinking outside the box....an AK might not come in handy trying to take down an f-16 at altitude but it would sure come in handy taking out the pilot whos walking towards the flight line.....its not like the bases they operate from are secret....I'd wager that even our most secret bases are listed on a road map.
 
2012-07-02 11:22:06 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


when the day comes to get all "from my cold dead hands" i doubt there will be much non-compliance. lots of bark, not much bite.
 
2012-07-02 11:22:23 AM
I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.
 
2012-07-02 11:22:48 AM

malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired


Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.
 
2012-07-02 11:26:10 AM
I've seen them cook rounds off without a trigger pull. seen em jam too, like a farker said it's that cheap coated ammo in a mak90 or something like that. But they are easy to clear and point the damn thing into some dirt if you have a round in it moran.
 
2012-07-02 11:26:47 AM

Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.


Citation needed.
 
2012-07-02 11:27:26 AM

Animatronik:
I used to think belonging to a private shooting club was a waste of time until some kids started playing with a mosin-nagant with hot loads next to me, and I realized that it just wasnt worth the risk.



That wasn't a hot load. That was just surplus ammo. The Mosin Nagant just rolls like that.
 
2012-07-02 11:27:55 AM

Giltric: Hes not thinking outside the box....an AK might not come in handy trying to take down an f-16 at altitude but it would sure come in handy taking out the pilot whos walking towards the flight line.....its not like the bases they operate from are secret....I'd wager that even our most secret bases are listed on a road map.


Actually, it would also be useful for taking out the F-16 while it was sitting on the flight line. A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).

All sorts of cheap and easy ways you can fark up a fast mover when it isn't moving.
 
2012-07-02 11:28:23 AM

malaktaus: CSB: During my second deployment to Iraq my company found numerous weapons caches, with a great many AK-47s and ammo, as well as a variety of other weapons. One day when not much was going on my platoon leader decided that we would take some of the captured weapons and ammo and go out and shoot it, because A) shooting guns is fun and B) knowing how to use the enemy's weapons could come in handy, you'll never know. Just about everyone in the platoon fhad already fired off a few magazines when an urgent message came through on the radio telling us to immediately desist. Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired. They didn't really keep any detalied records of these caches, so it was entirely possible that some of the ammunition we had found was of the doctored variety.


That sounds like a haphazard approach to sabotage, to say the least.
 
2012-07-02 11:28:32 AM

dittybopper: Giltric: Hes not thinking outside the box....an AK might not come in handy trying to take down an f-16 at altitude but it would sure come in handy taking out the pilot whos walking towards the flight line.....its not like the bases they operate from are secret....I'd wager that even our most secret bases are listed on a road map.

Actually, it would also be useful for taking out the F-16 while it was sitting on the flight line. A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).

All sorts of cheap and easy ways you can fark up a fast mover when it isn't moving.


Addendum: I'd be more worried about the drones, though.
 
2012-07-02 11:29:34 AM

Giltric: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired

Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.


It was done in Vietnam, but if we tried this in Iraq this is the first I've ever seen of the US trying this trick again.

I have forgotten the name of the operation, but the US made some assorted rounds loaded with explosive and not gunpowder, and then secreted them in ammo caches the VC and NVA were likely to plunder for their own use. They also forged letters about concerns with the quality of ammunition they were getting from China. Between those planted rumors and the occasional AK kaboom, it was a pretty nicely planned psychological warfare op. I think the final utility of the program was questionable though; it didn't have a significant impact on the prosecution of the war.
 
2012-07-02 11:31:44 AM

akula: Giltric: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired

Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.

It was done in Vietnam, but if we tried this in Iraq this is the first I've ever seen of the US trying this trick again.

I have forgotten the name of the operation



Found it. It was Eldest Son.
 
2012-07-02 11:32:59 AM

JohnAnnArbor: That sounds like a haphazard approach to sabotage, to say the least.


That's how you do it.

You can't possibly sabotage *ALL* the ammo. But if you do some small fraction of it, the whole cache is now suspect, and won't be used. So for the price of a handful of sabotaged rounds, you've placed tens of thousands of rounds "out of the game".

Plus, you've made other caches suspect, and sown seeds of doubt in every fighter out there. They are all going to be thinking "Hey, Jamal's gun blew up from a sabotaged round. I know this ammo is from a different cache, but what if *THIS* one was sabotaged too?".
 
2012-07-02 11:33:12 AM

malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.


I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!
 
2012-07-02 11:33:22 AM

Slaves2Darkness: ongbok: voodoo_curse: A jammed AK-47? Yeah, I don't think so.

That is because it wasn't an AK. It was one of the cheaply made semi-automatic variants of the AK. The media just reports everything that remotely looks like an AK as an AK.

Or it was the AK-74 and the reporter could not tell the difference.


AK-47, per the media.
stanfordflipside.com
 
2012-07-02 11:33:41 AM

Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.


All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.
 
2012-07-02 11:35:09 AM

Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle

A very nice rifle; excellent for urban warfare. I'm not sure if it was the direct replacement for the M-1, but it was standard issue in the Army during the mid 1960s when I was stationed in Germany.
 
2012-07-02 11:37:35 AM

ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.


I was going to call you on the first one, but I read the second and then recognized what you were doing.
 
2012-07-02 11:38:47 AM

Father_Jack: akula: Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.

Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."

theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.

the range i used to go at the range master wouldve stomped the guts out of the guy for being on the bench when people are down range or the other guy for going downrange when the range is still hot.

either way there's a whole lot of Midwestern Stupid goin on here, ja? Go have a pop or something.


Fairbanks, Alaska has the Cushman Range. Completely unstaffed. It's pretty much a dumping ground, especially the pistol range. You can bring whatever you want out there, shoot whatever you want, and the only time there's any "staff" out there is for a couple of hours on Wednesday mornings when they send out a couple of crews with trucks to haul out all the crap people leave out there. Old TVs, computers, vacuum cleaners, You name it, people will bring it out to shoot, with zero oversight. It's the wild farking west. I'm surprised there HAVEN'T been some deaths.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:28 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


What are you gunna do with all those fabrege eggs? They have no nutritional value ya know? And do really need all those shoes? You can only wear one pair at a time! Are you gunna put all those eggs in a basket and run away when they cancel the lifetime network? Har har har.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:42 AM
Idiot teenagers. Even so I would not have been so stupid as either of these fools, hell even at thirteen I knew better.
(And I'm British - and as a nation we suck at guns. Nowadays. It wasn't always so).
 
2012-07-02 11:41:54 AM

Giltric: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired

Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.


We've been doing this long enough to know that "because I said so" will only stop the guys who weren't interested in doing it in the first place. Innovative, motivated soldiers need a stronger deterrent.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:56 AM

ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.


Dimensions of the cases are different. Which leads to seating problems, extraction problems and feed problems, pressure problems etc....losing an eye and hand problems.....
 
2012-07-02 11:42:37 AM

KierzanDax: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.

I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!


Read Akula's post about "Operation Eldest Son". Apparently it isn't an urban myth.
 
2012-07-02 11:42:53 AM

dittybopper: ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.

I was going to call you on the first one, but I read the second and then recognized what you were doing.


Unfortunatley I did not.,
 
2012-07-02 11:43:50 AM

dittybopper: A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).


Maybe it's just because I used to work on avionics, but I'd go for the avionics bay, if you know where it is. Fark up the wiring harnesses and it'll take a lot longer to get the jet back up. Swapping an engine is routine and can be done in hours. Rewiring is extremely expensive and time consuming; it'd probably take weeks. That's my theory, at least.
 
2012-07-02 11:44:23 AM

KierzanDax: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.

I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!


They didn't actually use C-4. They used a high explosive that looked similar to gunpowder, but generated 5 times the pressure that a normal round generates.
 
2012-07-02 11:46:31 AM

Giltric: ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.

Dimensions of the cases are different. Which leads to seating problems, extraction problems and feed problems, pressure problems etc....losing an eye and hand problems.....


Interesting. Non-standard ammo tended to jam on the first feed and the last feed with the banana clips.
 
2012-07-02 11:47:05 AM

Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.


Link

"7.62mm.... Full. Metal. Jacket."
 
2012-07-02 11:47:39 AM
you never go full retard
 
2012-07-02 11:48:32 AM

Lost_in_Oregon: banana clips.


Yeah ok.
 
2012-07-02 11:51:37 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.
 
2012-07-02 11:54:28 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Do not touch the weapons when the range is clear. If you do, the range master should chew your ass off.


Or shoot you immediately to protect others on the firing line and preserve range safety.
 
2012-07-02 11:54:55 AM

dittybopper: Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.


CSB:

I had some friends out one time to "shoot the .50 cal". They were all giddy thinking I had a Barrett or similar.

Still had a blast firing off the muzzle loader, there is something about regular powder and the nice smoke plume that makes it extra fun.
 
2012-07-02 11:55:05 AM

Fish in a Barrel: dittybopper: A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).

Maybe it's just because I used to work on avionics, but I'd go for the avionics bay, if you know where it is. Fark up the wiring harnesses and it'll take a lot longer to get the jet back up. Swapping an engine is routine and can be done in hours. Rewiring is extremely expensive and time consuming; it'd probably take weeks. That's my theory, at least.


Here's the deal, though: You've got a flight line of 10 jets. You can swap an engine out in a few hours, but you've just taken all those planes out of business for that length of time, but probably for much, much more time, for the following reasons:

1. Do you have enough maintenance people to swap out the 10 engines concurrently?
2. Do you have enough resources (engine cradles, specialized tools, etc.) to swap out 10 engines concurrently?
3. Do you have enough spare engines on hand to swap them all out?

Plus, if you've managed to get close enough with enough people to do that to the jets, you could probably do more with very little effort. Knowing where the avionics are requires some specialized knowledge that might be harder to acquire.

I'd be less worried about the F-16s than I would about the drones, though. They are a much tougher proposition to counter.
 
2012-07-02 11:56:29 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.

CSB:

I had some friends out one time to "shoot the .50 cal". They were all giddy thinking I had a Barrett or similar.

Still had a blast firing off the muzzle loader, there is something about regular powder and the nice smoke plume that makes it extra fun.


Yeah, I don't shoot those small bores (mines a .54, and the one that shall be mine is a .62).
 
2012-07-02 11:57:11 AM

SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.


You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.
 
2012-07-02 11:58:08 AM

Giltric: DoBeDoBeDo: 3 friends in bathroom (possible gang bang?)

If 3 of the 4 were in the bathroom then who shot the 4th guy........


You may want to check your math.




Obvious suicide....

/or, they might be telling a pre-arranged story about a murder.
 
2012-07-02 11:58:43 AM

dittybopper: DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.

CSB:

I had some friends out one time to "shoot the .50 cal". They were all giddy thinking I had a Barrett or similar.

Still had a blast firing off the muzzle loader, there is something about regular powder and the nice smoke plume that makes it extra fun.

Yeah, I don't shoot those small bores (mines a .54, and the one that shall be mine is a .62).


I just want to know, try not to be offended, do you have a below-average tallywhacker? Is that just a myth, or is there merit to it?
 
2012-07-02 11:59:21 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


Same thing i do with my SKS, AR 15, Saiga 12 and 22 match rifle. Shoot at targets. Sometimes paper, sometimes, sometimes explodey. Depends on what I feel like doing.

1/10
 
2012-07-02 11:59:31 AM

aninconvenienterection: Proper gun safety is really one of the simplest things you can learn and can easily become second nature if proper attention is paid to it from day 1. The problem is, if you arent in the habit of actively focusing on gun safety each and every time you touch a firearm, be it at home, in the woods, at the range, etc, you are less likely to notice when you are being unintentionally unsafe.


I agree. Firearm safety isn't difficult at all, especially with today's guns which are far less likely to malfunction.

The problem is that everything else in our modern lives has been nerfed. If I screw up my computer, I can load the last known good configuration and be back up running in minutes. If I crash my car into a wall, I have crumple zones, 9 air bags and a break away steering column. My motorcycle helmet is made out of better material than the moon landing astronauts had. The only danger in my work is diabetes from sitting down all day.

We have to spend so much less attention to not injuring ourselves now because the consequences of injury are so much less severe. But a gun can still kill you in a second if you're not careful.

Imagine 125 years ago when any 2AM trip to the outhouse could result in getting eaten by a wolf, or a bad can of peaches could lead to bleeding to death from your anus. People back in those days were a lot more careful I imagine. A gun was probably safer than your pillow, seeing how easy it was to get TB from a pillow.
 
2012-07-02 12:04:20 PM

dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.


The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?
 
2012-07-02 12:05:03 PM

tukatz: Lubricating his AK? Is THAT what it's called now? Kinky.



/member of SPSHG


//"stupid people shouldn't have guns"


That word (lubricating) caught my eye too. If shooting regular ammo, use Hoppe's. When using that corrosive one-time use stuff, clean the gun with a 10:1 ratio of water to ammonia respectively. Knowing how to clean and maintain helps. We have 1 possibly 2 entries for the 2012 Darwin Awards.
 
2012-07-02 12:06:17 PM
"Kimball was instantly killed, the sheriff said. He did not identify the shooter."

He really didn't have time to identify the shooter.
 
2012-07-02 12:08:23 PM

Magorn: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?


See also: Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...................

When you have no clear enemy and no clear goal things get FUBAR in a hurry. No one is going to fight a Napoleanic war anymore.
 
2012-07-02 12:12:17 PM

Magnanimous_J: or a bad can of peaches could lead to bleeding to death from your anus.


annnnnd now I can never eat a canned peach again.
 
2012-07-02 12:14:11 PM
content.internetvideoarchive.com

"Gunny? My gun's jammed."

/The preferred weapon of our enemy; it makes a very distinctive sound
 
2012-07-02 12:15:14 PM
Some people have to die in order for guns to make us safer.
 
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