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(Detroit Free Press)   Don't go downrange when your buddy's trying to clear his jammed AK-47, mmmkay?   (freep.com) divider line 178
    More: Dumbass, gun ranges, intelligent design, Livingston County  
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10991 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2012 at 10:34 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 09:41:18 AM  
mojoimage.com



"Hello, I'm Chuck Darwin, and even though I'm not American, or even alive for that matter, I support and fully endorse the second amendment. Keep farking that chicken, America."
 
2012-07-02 09:50:21 AM  
Do not touch the weapons when the range is clear. If you do, the range master should chew your ass off.
 
2012-07-02 10:36:47 AM  
Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.
 
2012-07-02 10:37:36 AM  
Holy shiat that is a lot of coincidences.

3 friends in bathroom (possible gang bang?)

Instant kill from a misfire? The chances of a bullet making an instant kill when unaimed are VERY slim.

Alone at gun club they weren't supposed to be at?

Me thinks there is A LOT more to this story
 
2012-07-02 10:38:22 AM  
A jammed AK-47? Yeah, I don't think so.
 
2012-07-02 10:38:51 AM  
The old "friend" down range when my jammed AK goes off and kills him routine. That will teach him to fark my girlfriend while I am at work.
 
2012-07-02 10:39:07 AM  
So they sneak onto a range without permission then start wandering onto the range while one guy with a jammed freaking assault rifle is trying to clear it? Darwin approves of this cleaning of the gene pool.
 
2012-07-02 10:39:38 AM  
Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.
 
2012-07-02 10:40:03 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Holy shiat that is a lot of coincidences.

3 friends in bathroom (possible gang bang?)

Instant kill from a misfire? The chances of a bullet making an instant kill when unaimed are VERY slim.

Alone at gun club they weren't supposed to be at?

Me thinks there is A LOT more to this story



I'm skeptical that the firearm was an AK. Like OldManDownDRoad said, those things don't jam (often).
 
2012-07-02 10:40:32 AM  

voodoo_curse: A jammed AK-47? Yeah, I don't think so.


That is because it wasn't an AK. It was one of the cheaply made semi-automatic variants of the AK. The media just reports everything that remotely looks like an AK as an AK.
 
2012-07-02 10:41:05 AM  
 
2012-07-02 10:41:35 AM  
I'm not getting the whole picture here. Was there any staff on hand? Because there's no chance in hell they would've let this guy on the range with a bullet still in a gun and the gun being handled.

The story however says that the shooter told the other people he was a member, when in fact he was not. If he lied to them to get them to come with, then used the range when no one was around, and then managed to be fixing a jam at the moment the other two members of their party was out of sight....I'd want to know if the shooter had a grudge against the victim.
 
2012-07-02 10:41:47 AM  
Don't tell me what to do.
 
2012-07-02 10:41:50 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: 3 friends in bathroom (possible gang bang?)


If 3 of the 4 were in the bathroom then who shot the 4th guy........


You may want to check your math.
 
2012-07-02 10:43:43 AM  
RIP John Kimball?
images.zap2it.com
 
2012-07-02 10:43:57 AM  
"...his friend was applying lubricant..."

"One of the males and the teen girl went to the bathroom and did not witness what had happened..."

Giggity.
 
2012-07-02 10:44:09 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


No we use Lapuas for that. They'll tear right through the gearbox of a UH-60.
 
2012-07-02 10:44:32 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47?


Thinking of it as a semi-auto version of a 30-30 and the versatility is pretty obvious.
 
2012-07-02 10:44:56 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


Maybe he bought it cuz they're fun?

On a serious note, an AK can jam, it's usually caused form the laquer on cheap ammo melting in the hot chamber, it can gum things up. But the article states that the kid had just got the rifle back from service. Either way, learn how to clear a weapon, always point it down range. Never walk out on to the range. it's like walking blindfolded out onto a freeway.
 
2012-07-02 10:45:07 AM  
AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

Hey, anyone who's played World of Tanks knows that the only way to dominate is use the Soviet tech tree.
 
2012-07-02 10:46:23 AM  
If I'm an actual member of that club, I'm a little concerned that people can just walk in unchecked, can wander around & can just start firin' away.

Nice security. Really, what else could go wrong?
 
2012-07-02 10:46:26 AM  
Why do I imagine that alcohol was involved?
 
2012-07-02 10:47:04 AM  
Anybody else have big, huge, BS alarms ringing in their head right now?


There's no doubt it COULD have happened as described, and if so everyone involved was a total moron ignorant of basic gun safety, but my "spidey sense" tells me there will be a LOT more to this story when all is said and done.


The chance of weapon "accidentially" chambering a round and firing, the bullet hitting the friend, this accidential discharge being an instantly fatal shot, and all occuring while the only two other potential witnesses were conveniently in the bathroom?

Yeah, something ain't right here...
 
2012-07-02 10:47:36 AM  
www.no-clutter.com
 
2012-07-02 10:47:43 AM  

ongbok: voodoo_curse: A jammed AK-47? Yeah, I don't think so.

That is because it wasn't an AK. It was one of the cheaply made semi-automatic variants of the AK. The media just reports everything that remotely looks like an AK as an AK.


Or it was the AK-74 and the reporter could not tell the difference.
 
2012-07-02 10:48:39 AM  

OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.


AK-47

i1051.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-02 10:48:54 AM  

Giltric: DoBeDoBeDo: 3 friends in bathroom (possible gang bang?)

If 3 of the 4 were in the bathroom then who shot the 4th guy........


You may want to check your math.


Sorry I read it as 4 guys and 1 girl.

/Probably just hoping there was a gangbang in progress.
 
2012-07-02 10:49:05 AM  
Accident? Not buying it, and neither will the detectives.
 
2012-07-02 10:50:38 AM  
It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.
 
2012-07-02 10:53:10 AM  
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-02 10:55:23 AM  

iron_city_ap: OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.

AK-47

[i1051.photobucket.com image 501x380]


www.unc.edu
 
2012-07-02 10:58:23 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


The reliability of the Kalashnikov action (assuming the firearm to be properly manufactured) has resulted in increased popularity amongst recreational target shooters. The caliber is also sufficient for hunting animals up to the size of deer.
 
2012-07-02 10:58:31 AM  

gopher321: [mojoimage.com image 221x228]


"Hello, I'm Chuck Darwin, and even though I'm not American, or even alive for that matter, I support and fully endorse the second amendment. Keep farking that chicken, America."


Hey, Chuck, remember what happened in Europe a few decades back? Glass houses, and all that.
 
2012-07-02 10:59:15 AM  

Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.


Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."
 
2012-07-02 11:01:00 AM  

Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.


See, that's the thing. The anti-gun types take this story and run with it as if this kind of carelessness happens all the time, whereas gun people treat it like a driver of a car does hearing about a traffic accident: what errors occurred here? Who screwed up? Was this preventable by following normal procedure? (Sounds like yes from what you say.)
 
2012-07-02 11:02:23 AM  

gopher321: "Hello, I'm Chuck Darwin, and even though I'm not American, or even alive for that matter, I support and fully endorse the second amendment. Keep farking that chicken, America."


I think Darwin loves the automobile more.

If this was really an accident, its the shooter who shouldnt be procreating.
 
2012-07-02 11:04:47 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

/oblig
 
2012-07-02 11:04:53 AM  

akula: Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.

Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."


Better to leave the range when retards show up than to suffer from some petty tyrant's whim.
 
2012-07-02 11:05:59 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not touch the weapons when the range is clear. If you do, the range master should chew your ass off kick your ass off the range.


FTFY
 
2012-07-02 11:06:00 AM  

akula: Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.

Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."


theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.

the range i used to go at the range master wouldve stomped the guts out of the guy for being on the bench when people are down range or the other guy for going downrange when the range is still hot.

either way there's a whole lot of Midwestern Stupid goin on here, ja? Go have a pop or something.
 
2012-07-02 11:07:54 AM  
CSB: During my second deployment to Iraq my company found numerous weapons caches, with a great many AK-47s and ammo, as well as a variety of other weapons. One day when not much was going on my platoon leader decided that we would take some of the captured weapons and ammo and go out and shoot it, because A) shooting guns is fun and B) knowing how to use the enemy's weapons could come in handy, you'll never know. Just about everyone in the platoon fhad already fired off a few magazines when an urgent message came through on the radio telling us to immediately desist. Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired. They didn't really keep any detalied records of these caches, so it was entirely possible that some of the ammunition we had found was of the doctored variety.
 
2012-07-02 11:08:06 AM  

jbuist: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47?

Thinking of it as a semi-auto version of a 30-30 and the versatility is pretty obvious.


Yep. The 7.62x39mm cartridge, when loaded with expanding bullets, is a decent short range (less than 100 yards) deer cartridge. An AK-style gun, with a 5 round magazine, is an excellent deep woods/swamp deer gun, and I've noticed over the past couple decades that AKs, and especially SKS-style guns, have begun to gradually replace the venerable lever-action carbine as brush guns. A gun that groups 6" at 100 yards is perfectly adequate for deer, even if considered to be "inaccurate" by most standards. Their short length makes them handy in thick brush, and being semi-automatic they allow for a quick follow-up shot if necessary. The fact that they are inexpensive also helps: A $125 SKS getting scratched up is easier to handle than a $300 Winchester Model 94.

One neat innovation I recently saw was a Marble-type rear aperture sight for an SKS: It replaces the rear take-down lever, and apparently it retains its zero when removing it for cleaning, and it effectively doubles the notoriously short sight radius on an SKS.
 
2012-07-02 11:13:49 AM  

Father_Jack:

theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.



Yes. There are quite a few outdoor ranges on government property that are unmanned. People go out there to sight in their hunting rifles and are responsible for cleanup, etc. They are way out in the middle of nowhere and have no amenities beyond a trash bin.
 
2012-07-02 11:14:08 AM  

Father_Jack: theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.


Yes.

The Missouri Department of Conservation has a bunch of ranges around the state; only a few are actually staffed and maintained. The unmanned ones can be useful for shooting some things you can't at a more maintained range (like buckshot), but it's open to everybody. I've read numerous stories of people having a pleasant day at the range when a truck full of yahoos shows up and starts blasting away when people are downrange.

Some membership only clubs are also unstaffed, but those often require members and guests to voluntarily adhere to a code of conduct as a requirement for using the place. It sounds like they were at one of these kinds of ranges in TFA, only they weren't members and weren't supposed to be there at all.
 
2012-07-02 11:14:36 AM  

Beerguy: Marcus Aurelius: Do not touch the weapons when the range is clear. If you do, the range master should chew your ass off kick your ass off the range.

FTFY


FTFA: They didn't have permission to be there in the first place. He wasn't a member.
 
2012-07-02 11:14:46 AM  

akula: Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.

Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."


I used to think belonging to a private shooting club was a waste of time until some kids started playing with a mosin-nagant with hot loads next to me, and I realized that it just wasnt worth the risk.
 
2012-07-02 11:15:43 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


Why, because tanks and jets that are "not particularly useful against an insurgency" in a foreign land suddenly become useful when used against a domestic insurgency?

You don't have to be able to *WIN*, you just have to make it so potentially expensive that they won't try it in the first place.
 
2012-07-02 11:19:42 AM  

dittybopper: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

Why, because tanks and jets that are "not particularly useful against an insurgency" in a foreign land suddenly become useful when used against a domestic insurgency?


Well sure, that's why Eisenhower signed the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act, so we'd have big roads to handle the heavy armor traffic.
 
2012-07-02 11:19:42 AM  

Father_Jack:
theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.



I belong to a private "sportsman's club" just down the street from my house. We have unstaffed ranges. To "qualify" for the range you must pass a basic safety orientation class (basically sit through a lecture).

I cringe whenever I drive in and find both ranges occupied. If I know who the shooter is I might step in next to him/her, but often I come back later. This isnt even a public range and I am still appalled at the lack of muzzle control and risky hot/cold range activities. I dont get anywhere near as much out of my practice when there is someone else on the range next to me- half of my attention is on them, and for good reason. What part of "step away from the line and keep your hands away from your guns when the range is cold" do people not understand?

Proper gun safety is really one of the simplest things you can learn and can easily become second nature if proper attention is paid to it from day 1. The problem is, if you arent in the habit of actively focusing on gun safety each and every time you touch a firearm, be it at home, in the woods, at the range, etc, you are less likely to notice when you are being unintentionally unsafe.

end rant.
 
2012-07-02 11:19:55 AM  
Beyond the obvious idiocy, two things stick out for me in this story.

One, if the weapon had already malfunctioned enough for repeated service, it was probably not a standard Russian model and more likely a cheap Chinese knockoff.
"It had been malfunctioning and he had it serviced and received it back and was firing it at the range,"

Two, someone needs to kick their teenage daughter right in the ass. Three armed men on a shooting range does not equal safe sex!
"Three 19-year-old men and a 16-year-old girl." "One of the males and the teen girl went to the bathroom and did not witness what had happened."
 
2012-07-02 11:20:09 AM  
Lubricating his AK? Is THAT what it's called now? Kinky.



/member of SPSHG


//"stupid people shouldn't have guns"
 
2012-07-02 11:21:09 AM  
Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.
 
2012-07-02 11:21:16 AM  

dittybopper: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

Why, because tanks and jets that are "not particularly useful against an insurgency" in a foreign land suddenly become useful when used against a domestic insurgency?

You don't have to be able to *WIN*, you just have to make it so potentially expensive that they won't try it in the first place.


Hes not thinking outside the box....an AK might not come in handy trying to take down an f-16 at altitude but it would sure come in handy taking out the pilot whos walking towards the flight line.....its not like the bases they operate from are secret....I'd wager that even our most secret bases are listed on a road map.
 
2012-07-02 11:22:06 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


when the day comes to get all "from my cold dead hands" i doubt there will be much non-compliance. lots of bark, not much bite.
 
2012-07-02 11:22:23 AM  
I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.
 
2012-07-02 11:22:48 AM  

malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired


Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.
 
2012-07-02 11:26:10 AM  
I've seen them cook rounds off without a trigger pull. seen em jam too, like a farker said it's that cheap coated ammo in a mak90 or something like that. But they are easy to clear and point the damn thing into some dirt if you have a round in it moran.
 
2012-07-02 11:26:47 AM  

Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.


Citation needed.
 
2012-07-02 11:27:26 AM  

Animatronik:
I used to think belonging to a private shooting club was a waste of time until some kids started playing with a mosin-nagant with hot loads next to me, and I realized that it just wasnt worth the risk.



That wasn't a hot load. That was just surplus ammo. The Mosin Nagant just rolls like that.
 
2012-07-02 11:27:55 AM  

Giltric: Hes not thinking outside the box....an AK might not come in handy trying to take down an f-16 at altitude but it would sure come in handy taking out the pilot whos walking towards the flight line.....its not like the bases they operate from are secret....I'd wager that even our most secret bases are listed on a road map.


Actually, it would also be useful for taking out the F-16 while it was sitting on the flight line. A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).

All sorts of cheap and easy ways you can fark up a fast mover when it isn't moving.
 
2012-07-02 11:28:23 AM  

malaktaus: CSB: During my second deployment to Iraq my company found numerous weapons caches, with a great many AK-47s and ammo, as well as a variety of other weapons. One day when not much was going on my platoon leader decided that we would take some of the captured weapons and ammo and go out and shoot it, because A) shooting guns is fun and B) knowing how to use the enemy's weapons could come in handy, you'll never know. Just about everyone in the platoon fhad already fired off a few magazines when an urgent message came through on the radio telling us to immediately desist. Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired. They didn't really keep any detalied records of these caches, so it was entirely possible that some of the ammunition we had found was of the doctored variety.


That sounds like a haphazard approach to sabotage, to say the least.
 
2012-07-02 11:28:32 AM  

dittybopper: Giltric: Hes not thinking outside the box....an AK might not come in handy trying to take down an f-16 at altitude but it would sure come in handy taking out the pilot whos walking towards the flight line.....its not like the bases they operate from are secret....I'd wager that even our most secret bases are listed on a road map.

Actually, it would also be useful for taking out the F-16 while it was sitting on the flight line. A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).

All sorts of cheap and easy ways you can fark up a fast mover when it isn't moving.


Addendum: I'd be more worried about the drones, though.
 
2012-07-02 11:29:34 AM  

Giltric: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired

Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.


It was done in Vietnam, but if we tried this in Iraq this is the first I've ever seen of the US trying this trick again.

I have forgotten the name of the operation, but the US made some assorted rounds loaded with explosive and not gunpowder, and then secreted them in ammo caches the VC and NVA were likely to plunder for their own use. They also forged letters about concerns with the quality of ammunition they were getting from China. Between those planted rumors and the occasional AK kaboom, it was a pretty nicely planned psychological warfare op. I think the final utility of the program was questionable though; it didn't have a significant impact on the prosecution of the war.
 
2012-07-02 11:31:44 AM  

akula: Giltric: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired

Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.

It was done in Vietnam, but if we tried this in Iraq this is the first I've ever seen of the US trying this trick again.

I have forgotten the name of the operation



Found it. It was Eldest Son.
 
2012-07-02 11:32:59 AM  

JohnAnnArbor: That sounds like a haphazard approach to sabotage, to say the least.


That's how you do it.

You can't possibly sabotage *ALL* the ammo. But if you do some small fraction of it, the whole cache is now suspect, and won't be used. So for the price of a handful of sabotaged rounds, you've placed tens of thousands of rounds "out of the game".

Plus, you've made other caches suspect, and sown seeds of doubt in every fighter out there. They are all going to be thinking "Hey, Jamal's gun blew up from a sabotaged round. I know this ammo is from a different cache, but what if *THIS* one was sabotaged too?".
 
2012-07-02 11:33:12 AM  

malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.


I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!
 
2012-07-02 11:33:22 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: ongbok: voodoo_curse: A jammed AK-47? Yeah, I don't think so.

That is because it wasn't an AK. It was one of the cheaply made semi-automatic variants of the AK. The media just reports everything that remotely looks like an AK as an AK.

Or it was the AK-74 and the reporter could not tell the difference.


AK-47, per the media.
stanfordflipside.com
 
2012-07-02 11:33:41 AM  

Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.


All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.
 
2012-07-02 11:35:09 AM  

Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle

A very nice rifle; excellent for urban warfare. I'm not sure if it was the direct replacement for the M-1, but it was standard issue in the Army during the mid 1960s when I was stationed in Germany.
 
2012-07-02 11:37:35 AM  

ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.


I was going to call you on the first one, but I read the second and then recognized what you were doing.
 
2012-07-02 11:38:47 AM  

Father_Jack: akula: Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.

Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."

theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.

the range i used to go at the range master wouldve stomped the guts out of the guy for being on the bench when people are down range or the other guy for going downrange when the range is still hot.

either way there's a whole lot of Midwestern Stupid goin on here, ja? Go have a pop or something.


Fairbanks, Alaska has the Cushman Range. Completely unstaffed. It's pretty much a dumping ground, especially the pistol range. You can bring whatever you want out there, shoot whatever you want, and the only time there's any "staff" out there is for a couple of hours on Wednesday mornings when they send out a couple of crews with trucks to haul out all the crap people leave out there. Old TVs, computers, vacuum cleaners, You name it, people will bring it out to shoot, with zero oversight. It's the wild farking west. I'm surprised there HAVEN'T been some deaths.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:28 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


What are you gunna do with all those fabrege eggs? They have no nutritional value ya know? And do really need all those shoes? You can only wear one pair at a time! Are you gunna put all those eggs in a basket and run away when they cancel the lifetime network? Har har har.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:42 AM  
Idiot teenagers. Even so I would not have been so stupid as either of these fools, hell even at thirteen I knew better.
(And I'm British - and as a nation we suck at guns. Nowadays. It wasn't always so).
 
2012-07-02 11:41:54 AM  

Giltric: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired

Someone should have just said "because I said not to" instead of making up that cockamamie line of bs.


We've been doing this long enough to know that "because I said so" will only stop the guys who weren't interested in doing it in the first place. Innovative, motivated soldiers need a stronger deterrent.
 
2012-07-02 11:41:56 AM  

ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.


Dimensions of the cases are different. Which leads to seating problems, extraction problems and feed problems, pressure problems etc....losing an eye and hand problems.....
 
2012-07-02 11:42:37 AM  

KierzanDax: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.

I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!


Read Akula's post about "Operation Eldest Son". Apparently it isn't an urban myth.
 
2012-07-02 11:42:53 AM  

dittybopper: ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.

I was going to call you on the first one, but I read the second and then recognized what you were doing.


Unfortunatley I did not.,
 
2012-07-02 11:43:50 AM  

dittybopper: A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).


Maybe it's just because I used to work on avionics, but I'd go for the avionics bay, if you know where it is. Fark up the wiring harnesses and it'll take a lot longer to get the jet back up. Swapping an engine is routine and can be done in hours. Rewiring is extremely expensive and time consuming; it'd probably take weeks. That's my theory, at least.
 
2012-07-02 11:44:23 AM  

KierzanDax: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.

I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!


They didn't actually use C-4. They used a high explosive that looked similar to gunpowder, but generated 5 times the pressure that a normal round generates.
 
2012-07-02 11:46:31 AM  

Giltric: ElLoco: Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.

All 7.62 rounds are interchangeable. All semi-automatics are also AK-47s.

Dimensions of the cases are different. Which leads to seating problems, extraction problems and feed problems, pressure problems etc....losing an eye and hand problems.....


Interesting. Non-standard ammo tended to jam on the first feed and the last feed with the banana clips.
 
2012-07-02 11:47:05 AM  

Giltric: Lost_in_Oregon: I like AK47 ammo because it works so well in my old M14 with its "NATO" rounds.

Citation needed.


Link

"7.62mm.... Full. Metal. Jacket."
 
2012-07-02 11:47:39 AM  
you never go full retard
 
2012-07-02 11:48:32 AM  

Lost_in_Oregon: banana clips.


Yeah ok.
 
2012-07-02 11:51:37 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.
 
2012-07-02 11:54:28 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not touch the weapons when the range is clear. If you do, the range master should chew your ass off.


Or shoot you immediately to protect others on the firing line and preserve range safety.
 
2012-07-02 11:54:55 AM  

dittybopper: Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.


CSB:

I had some friends out one time to "shoot the .50 cal". They were all giddy thinking I had a Barrett or similar.

Still had a blast firing off the muzzle loader, there is something about regular powder and the nice smoke plume that makes it extra fun.
 
2012-07-02 11:55:05 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: dittybopper: A magazine into one would almost certainly make it unable to fly until fixed, especially if you emptied the magazine into the tailpipe (thus guaranteeing you farked up the blades of the turbine).

Maybe it's just because I used to work on avionics, but I'd go for the avionics bay, if you know where it is. Fark up the wiring harnesses and it'll take a lot longer to get the jet back up. Swapping an engine is routine and can be done in hours. Rewiring is extremely expensive and time consuming; it'd probably take weeks. That's my theory, at least.


Here's the deal, though: You've got a flight line of 10 jets. You can swap an engine out in a few hours, but you've just taken all those planes out of business for that length of time, but probably for much, much more time, for the following reasons:

1. Do you have enough maintenance people to swap out the 10 engines concurrently?
2. Do you have enough resources (engine cradles, specialized tools, etc.) to swap out 10 engines concurrently?
3. Do you have enough spare engines on hand to swap them all out?

Plus, if you've managed to get close enough with enough people to do that to the jets, you could probably do more with very little effort. Knowing where the avionics are requires some specialized knowledge that might be harder to acquire.

I'd be less worried about the F-16s than I would about the drones, though. They are a much tougher proposition to counter.
 
2012-07-02 11:56:29 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.

CSB:

I had some friends out one time to "shoot the .50 cal". They were all giddy thinking I had a Barrett or similar.

Still had a blast firing off the muzzle loader, there is something about regular powder and the nice smoke plume that makes it extra fun.


Yeah, I don't shoot those small bores (mines a .54, and the one that shall be mine is a .62).
 
2012-07-02 11:57:11 AM  

SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.


You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.
 
2012-07-02 11:58:08 AM  

Giltric: DoBeDoBeDo: 3 friends in bathroom (possible gang bang?)

If 3 of the 4 were in the bathroom then who shot the 4th guy........


You may want to check your math.




Obvious suicide....

/or, they might be telling a pre-arranged story about a murder.
 
2012-07-02 11:58:43 AM  

dittybopper: DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Generally, I go shooting at my father's house: He lives out in the country, surrounded by woods and fallow farmland, and he's got a large hill behind his house that makes a great backstop.

When I do go to a range (generally as a guest of a member), though, I end up being the center of attention because I bring the long rifle. I'm used to it, and because I compete with it, I'm used to being around people who shoot them, so to me it's no big deal, but apparently being able to competently shoot a flintlock is almost akin to a special power amongst shooters of more modern guns. Sometimes I let a few take a shot with it, because it *IS* fun.

CSB:

I had some friends out one time to "shoot the .50 cal". They were all giddy thinking I had a Barrett or similar.

Still had a blast firing off the muzzle loader, there is something about regular powder and the nice smoke plume that makes it extra fun.

Yeah, I don't shoot those small bores (mines a .54, and the one that shall be mine is a .62).


I just want to know, try not to be offended, do you have a below-average tallywhacker? Is that just a myth, or is there merit to it?
 
2012-07-02 11:59:21 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


Same thing i do with my SKS, AR 15, Saiga 12 and 22 match rifle. Shoot at targets. Sometimes paper, sometimes, sometimes explodey. Depends on what I feel like doing.

1/10
 
2012-07-02 11:59:31 AM  

aninconvenienterection: Proper gun safety is really one of the simplest things you can learn and can easily become second nature if proper attention is paid to it from day 1. The problem is, if you arent in the habit of actively focusing on gun safety each and every time you touch a firearm, be it at home, in the woods, at the range, etc, you are less likely to notice when you are being unintentionally unsafe.


I agree. Firearm safety isn't difficult at all, especially with today's guns which are far less likely to malfunction.

The problem is that everything else in our modern lives has been nerfed. If I screw up my computer, I can load the last known good configuration and be back up running in minutes. If I crash my car into a wall, I have crumple zones, 9 air bags and a break away steering column. My motorcycle helmet is made out of better material than the moon landing astronauts had. The only danger in my work is diabetes from sitting down all day.

We have to spend so much less attention to not injuring ourselves now because the consequences of injury are so much less severe. But a gun can still kill you in a second if you're not careful.

Imagine 125 years ago when any 2AM trip to the outhouse could result in getting eaten by a wolf, or a bad can of peaches could lead to bleeding to death from your anus. People back in those days were a lot more careful I imagine. A gun was probably safer than your pillow, seeing how easy it was to get TB from a pillow.
 
2012-07-02 12:04:20 PM  

dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.


The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?
 
2012-07-02 12:05:03 PM  

tukatz: Lubricating his AK? Is THAT what it's called now? Kinky.



/member of SPSHG


//"stupid people shouldn't have guns"


That word (lubricating) caught my eye too. If shooting regular ammo, use Hoppe's. When using that corrosive one-time use stuff, clean the gun with a 10:1 ratio of water to ammonia respectively. Knowing how to clean and maintain helps. We have 1 possibly 2 entries for the 2012 Darwin Awards.
 
2012-07-02 12:06:17 PM  
"Kimball was instantly killed, the sheriff said. He did not identify the shooter."

He really didn't have time to identify the shooter.
 
2012-07-02 12:08:23 PM  

Magorn: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?


See also: Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...................

When you have no clear enemy and no clear goal things get FUBAR in a hurry. No one is going to fight a Napoleanic war anymore.
 
2012-07-02 12:12:17 PM  

Magnanimous_J: or a bad can of peaches could lead to bleeding to death from your anus.


annnnnd now I can never eat a canned peach again.
 
2012-07-02 12:14:11 PM  
content.internetvideoarchive.com

"Gunny? My gun's jammed."

/The preferred weapon of our enemy; it makes a very distinctive sound
 
2012-07-02 12:15:14 PM  
Some people have to die in order for guns to make us safer.
 
2012-07-02 12:21:47 PM  

OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.


They do now, thanks to Bill Clinton.
 
2012-07-02 12:23:08 PM  

Magorn: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?



If you knew more history about that war than what you recall trying to sleep through in high school, you'd know how very close the South came on more than one occasion to seeing public and political pressure in the North force a cease fire. Typically, it was after a series of costly Union losses, usually in Northern Virginia (aka: just a few miles into the Confederacy).
 
2012-07-02 12:25:47 PM  

KidneyStone: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

Same thing i do with my SKS, AR 15, Saiga 12 and 22 match rifle. Shoot at targets. Sometimes paper, sometimes, sometimes explodey. Depends on what I feel like doing.

1/10


Yah, not to mention he hasn't watched the news in the last ten or so years.
 
wee
2012-07-02 12:26:20 PM  

OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.


This is the part that got me. From the article, it sounds like it went off when he racked the slide. I know one sure way to make that happen, and it's when you use a metal file to convert a semi auto into a slamfire full auto. Or the sear is bad. That or he shot the guy. Either way, the article says that he had the gun worked on, it didn't say who did the working.
 
2012-07-02 12:39:16 PM  

aninconvenienterection: Father_Jack:
theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.


I belong to a private "sportsman's club" just down the street from my house. We have unstaffed ranges. To "qualify" for the range you must pass a basic safety orientation class (basically sit through a lecture).

I cringe whenever I drive in and find both ranges occupied. If I know who the shooter is I might step in next to him/her, but often I come back later. This isnt even a public range and I am still appalled at the lack of muzzle control and risky hot/cold range activities. I dont get anywhere near as much out of my practice when there is someone else on the range next to me- half of my attention is on them, and for good reason. What part of "step away from the line and keep your hands away from your guns when the range is cold" do people not understand?

Proper gun safety is really one of the simplest things you can learn and can easily become second nature if proper attention is paid to it from day 1. The problem is, if you arent in the habit of actively focusing on gun safety each and every time you touch a firearm, be it at home, in the woods, at the range, etc, you are less likely to notice when you are being unintentionally unsafe.

end rant.


I was watching American Guns on Discovery Channel and was appalled at the nonchalant way they were handling the firearms at the outdoor range. Holding fully automatic weapons in unsafe positions as they were testing them. Very unprofessional.
 
2012-07-02 12:42:09 PM  

tetsoushima: I just want to know, try not to be offended, do you have a below-average tallywhacker? Is that just a myth, or is there merit to it?


You tell me. You're the one that equates caliber with dick length.

Assuming you want a real answer as to why I went with the caliber I chose, here is why:

When you shoot a pure round ball, effectiveness is directly related to caliber. The bigger the ball, the more effective it is because it's heavier and larger. However, there is only so much velocity you can get from black powder, so a large round ball with a reasonable powder charge in a reasonable length gun is going to have a more arcing trajectory than a smaller ball, which can go faster initially, but which will lose energy much faster.

I sat down with a calculator, ballistics tables, and a couple of formulas to figure out which caliber I wanted. My idea was a deer rifle that I could use against bear, elk, or moose if I got the chance to do that. I settled on .54 caliber as a decently flat shooting caliber that would be effective enough with round ball against the larger cervids, and against black bear. A .45 or .50 caliber would have been fine for a pure deer rifle, or just a target gun, but I was looking for something I could use on something a bit larger if I decided to in the future. Given that the gun was built for me, to my measurements, you can see why I might want something that was more useful than a single-purpose gun.

The .62 caliber "gun that shall be mine" is a British Baker rifle. It's that size because that's the size they were back then, but ironically the gun is actually shorter than my long rifle (which is a 'transitional' one, shorter and of larger caliber than a "Golden Age" long rifle). The Baker is more akin to Germanic Jaeger rifle, very short barrelled and very large caliber.

Here are the two guns for comparison: Mine is the top one, the Baker is the bottom:

i54.tinypic.com

/Your prejudice is duly noted, however.
 
2012-07-02 12:46:37 PM  

dittybopper: tetsoushima: I just want to know, try not to be offended, do you have a below-average tallywhacker? Is that just a myth, or is there merit to it?

You tell me. You're the one that equates caliber with dick length.

Assuming you want a real answer as to why I went with the caliber I chose, here is why:

When you shoot a pure round ball, effectiveness is directly related to caliber. The bigger the ball, the more effective it is because it's heavier and larger. However, there is only so much velocity you can get from black powder, so a large round ball with a reasonable powder charge in a reasonable length gun is going to have a more arcing trajectory than a smaller ball, which can go faster initially, but which will lose energy much faster.

I sat down with a calculator, ballistics tables, and a couple of formulas to figure out which caliber I wanted. My idea was a deer rifle that I could use against bear, elk, or moose if I got the chance to do that. I settled on .54 caliber as a decently flat shooting caliber that would be effective enough with round ball against the larger cervids, and against black bear. A .45 or .50 caliber would have been fine for a pure deer rifle, or just a target gun, but I was looking for something I could use on something a bit larger if I decided to in the future. Given that the gun was built for me, to my measurements, you can see why I might want something that was more useful than a single-purpose gun.

The .62 caliber "gun that shall be mine" is a British Baker rifle. It's that size because that's the size they were back then, but ironically the gun is actually shorter than my long rifle (which is a 'transitional' one, shorter and of larger caliber than a "Golden Age" long rifle). The Baker is more akin to Germanic Jaeger rifle, very short barrelled and very large caliber.

Here are the two guns for comparison: Mine is the top one, the Baker is the bottom:

[i54.tinypic.com image 638x256]

/Your prejudice is duly noted, howe ...


Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.
 
2012-07-02 12:48:12 PM  

dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.


Aside from the OT involved, turning your "suburban fortress" into a fiery pile of rubble (with you & all your guns in it) isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things. And it'll quickly come to that if you piss them off enough... your cache of 7.62x39 notwithstanding.

*Is $630 too much to pay for a NIB MA legal WASR 10?
 
2012-07-02 12:50:57 PM  
Actually, that's a DO not a don't. Fewer irresponsible gun owners in our country, the better.

The more that bite the bullet, the better.
 
2012-07-02 12:55:06 PM  

Magorn: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?


False. The Southern states started the war by firing on Fort Sumter.

Picking a fight isn't how you go about the strategy of "make it so expensive the other side won't try". That's like a weight-lifter claiming he bulks up so people won't fight him, then going to a bar and slapping random people upside the head.
 
2012-07-02 12:56:45 PM  
Stupid WASR.
 
2012-07-02 12:56:49 PM  
The fatal shot HAD to be an accident. An AK never hits anything you're actually aiming at.

/kidding
//not kidding
 
2012-07-02 12:56:58 PM  

tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.


Well glad to see you have your EIP since you are into such things.
 
2012-07-02 12:57:18 PM  

Magnanimous_J: a bad can of peaches could lead to bleeding to death from your anus.


Your words, they hypnotize and enthrall me. I am enchanted and wish to receive your affection newsletter.
 
2012-07-02 01:00:22 PM  

SupplySideJesus: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

Aside from the OT involved, turning your "suburban fortress" into a fiery pile of rubble (with you & all your guns in it) isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things. And it'll quickly come to that if you piss them off enough... your cache of 7.62x39 notwithstanding.

*Is $630 too much to pay for a NIB MA legal WASR 10?


OK, so that's one out of how many? That shiat gets *REAL* expensive really fast, in dollars, lives lost, and public opinion.

*Fark if I know, I'm a flintlock guy.
 
2012-07-02 01:05:11 PM  

Magorn: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?


Well if I was fighting the US government today I'd look like a good little citizen and then blow infrastructure up. It is going to get might costly when gas goes to $8-10 dollars a gallon, because some asshole with a few home made bombs blows the shiat out of the pipe lines.

People in the hot states are going to be mighty pissed during the summer when some asshole with a few home made bombs blows the shiat out of the transmission wires and brings the electrical grid down.

Hell you don't even have to do large scale terrorist actions to have big effect if you have enough like minded people. Go to New York and simultaneously spread nails all over the bridges, tunnels, and other roads that are choke points during morning rush hour while at the same time setting off a couple of smoke bombs on the subways.

I'm currently living in St. Louis and if I really wanted to make a terrorist statement and scare the the civilians I'd do a drive by of Ted Drews ice cream stand when they are so busy people are standing in the street. I'd probably kill no more then 8-10 people, but the effect would be insane.
 
2012-07-02 01:06:36 PM  

Giltric: tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.

Well glad to see you have your EIP since you are into such things.


whoops.
 
2012-07-02 01:08:27 PM  

tetsoushima: Giltric: tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.

Well glad to see you have your EIP since you are into such things.

whoops.


Looks like I'll be swimming in dicks in no time at all!
 
2012-07-02 01:10:36 PM  

craig328: Magorn: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

The South had that same philosophy during the Civil war, which is why they decided to fight a defensive war. How'd that work out for them?


If you knew more history about that war than what you recall trying to sleep through in high school, you'd know how very close the South came on more than one occasion to seeing public and political pressure in the North force a cease fire. Typically, it was after a series of costly Union losses, usually in Northern Virginia (aka: just a few miles into the Confederacy).


They may have come close, and certainly the strength of McClellan's challenge to Lincoln for the nomination speaks to that (as do the Draft riots in NYC) but the simple fact is, the potato famine in Ireland, and the susequent waves of migration it caused, meant the North was never going to run out of recruits, and the industrial interests in the north were making too much money on the war for them to simply give up that money source without a fight. Combine that with the Taliban-like zeal of the northern abolitionists, and you know that stopping the war for more than a brief cease-fire was never a realistic option no matter what the Vox populi may have felt about it
 
2012-07-02 01:14:51 PM  

akula: Father_Jack: theres such a thing as an unstaffed range? jeebus.

Yes.

The Missouri Department of Conservation has a bunch of ranges around the state; only a few are actually staffed and maintained. The unmanned ones can be useful for shooting some things you can't at a more maintained range (like buckshot), but it's open to everybody. I've read numerous stories of people having a pleasant day at the range when a truck full of yahoos shows up and starts blasting away when people are downrange.

Some membership only clubs are also unstaffed, but those often require members and guests to voluntarily adhere to a code of conduct as a requirement for using the place. It sounds like they were at one of these kinds of ranges in TFA, only they weren't members and weren't supposed to be there at all.


Yep, the one near St Joe Ive had the same experience. Shooting with friends then a bunch of idiots show up and dont know the basics of gun safety.
 
2012-07-02 01:20:18 PM  

dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: dittybopper: SupplySideJesus: AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.

You'd be amazed (or more likely horrified) at how many "shooters" believe just that.

You don't have to be able to win, you just have to be able to make it so expensive that they won't try.

Aside from the OT involved, turning your "suburban fortress" into a fiery pile of rubble (with you & all your guns in it) isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things. And it'll quickly come to that if you piss them off enough... your cache of 7.62x39 notwithstanding.

*Is $630 too much to pay for a NIB MA legal WASR 10?

OK, so that's one out of how many? That shiat gets *REAL* expensive really fast, in dollars, lives lost, and public opinion.

*Fark if I know, I'm a flintlock guy.


So, by that logic, the ATF should've just packed up and left Waco after the first shots were fired? "Screw this guys, this is going to be way too expensive. Let's just go home."

If there's one thing the gubmint does well, it's blow shiat up... and they don't like being shot at all that much. Any responsible gun owner should know that the difference between a "collection" and an "arsenal" is the mentality of its owner... a distinction usually made after the smoke has cleared. They don't give a rat's ass about your second amendment rights, your family of four or your Gadsden flag. They just know you're an armed and dangerous fark and I promise you they'll act accordingly.
 
2012-07-02 01:24:36 PM  

tetsoushima: tetsoushima: Giltric: tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.

Well glad to see you have your EIP since you are into such things.

whoops.

Looks like I'll be swimming in dicks in no time at all!


Indeed! You will be beating them off with both hands before too long.
 
2012-07-02 01:29:27 PM  

tetsoushima: Looks like I'll be swimming in dicks in no time at all!


But you are already on fark
 
2012-07-02 01:30:15 PM  
Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American
- speaks with a southern drawl
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab'
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend


Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. But those guys are farking retards of the highest order. An after-party for the special olympics track team at Pizza Hut would involve more interesting, and intelligent conversation than a room full of those mutants.

So yeah, I'm pretty safe on the 'friend shoots me with his AK-47' front...
 
2012-07-02 01:39:55 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47....Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. ....


Yes, you are stereotyping. You would be very surprised to see who owns what kinds of guns.I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck. Guns are fun to shoot, period, and there is no telling who is going to get bit by the shooting bug.
 
2012-07-02 01:40:00 PM  

OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.


That's what I came here to say.

/the Internet told me so
 
2012-07-02 01:40:25 PM  

Primum: Fewer irresponsible gun owners in our country, the better.


By all known accounts, the irresponsible gun owner is the one that is still alive.
 
2012-07-02 01:46:53 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


In other news, plinking is fun.

/shockingly enough, people sometimes just own things because they're enjoyable
 
2012-07-02 01:48:42 PM  

SupplySideJesus: They just know you're an armed and dangerous fark and I promise you they'll act accordingly.


Sometimes you don't even have to be dangerous for them to 'act accordingly'. Just ask Randy Weaver.

On the bright side, a whole pile of things changed after Ruby Ridge and Waco. The liklihood of these happening again are very much reduced. Expect to see more of a Freeman-type standoff now as opposed to these other two debacles.
 
2012-07-02 01:54:05 PM  

H31N0US: tetsoushima: Looks like I'll be swimming in dicks in no time at all!

But you are already on fark


I guess you could say I'm already balls-deep.
 
2012-07-02 02:28:20 PM  

HeadLever: SupplySideJesus: They just know you're an armed and dangerous fark and I promise you they'll act accordingly.

Sometimes you don't even have to be dangerous for them to 'act accordingly'. Just ask Randy Weaver.

On the bright side, a whole pile of things changed after Ruby Ridge and Waco. The liklihood of these happening again are very much reduced. Expect to see more of a Freeman-type standoff now as opposed to these other two debacles.


The end result will always be the same my friend, regardless of the means. You'll either walk out, or you'll be carried out. But you will come out. This simple fact cannot be disputed (regardless of how much ammo you've stockpiled) and has always led me to wonder what the keyboard commandos are hoping to accomplish with their "from my cold dead hands" BS. Because ironically, that's exactly how it'd go down.
 
2012-07-02 02:36:02 PM  
SupplySideJesus:

*Is $630 too much to pay for a NIB MA legal WASR 10?

That is about $200 over what they go for here in a Free state, but the premium may be worth it to you due to the limited number available for legal sale in MA

/ paid $289 for a WASR-10 in early '08
// traded even up for a $900 O/U 20ga shotgun Dec '08 - thanks Obama!
 
2012-07-02 02:40:02 PM  

tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.


Well you should fit right in with the anti-gun crowd then.
 
2012-07-02 02:40:43 PM  

SupplySideJesus: The end result will always be the same my friend,. . . You'll either . .


Does not compute. Coming out alive is a little different than coming out dead. Of course you will come out. The objective is never to stay holed up forever.
 
2012-07-02 02:42:00 PM  

umad: tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.

Well you should fit right in with the anti-gun crowd then.


I'm not anti-gun, i'm just pro-penis.
 
2012-07-02 02:43:11 PM  

tetsoushima: umad: tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.

Well you should fit right in with the anti-gun crowd then.

I'm not anti-gun, i'm just pro-penis.


Isn't that the title of a Kinky Friedman song?
 
2012-07-02 02:46:15 PM  

Father_Jack: the range i used to go at the range master wouldve stomped the guts out of the guy for being on the bench when people are down range or the other guy for going downrange when the range is still hot.


THIS.

The primary rangemaster at the range I used to go to in my youth was a WWII Marine vet. Well into his 70s, spry as ever and eagle-eyed. Man brooked no shiat on his range, and most of the regulars wouldn't have had it any other way. I didn't see it personally, but some folks I knew saw him tackle a guy who was handling a weapon while the range was clear.
 
2012-07-02 02:51:56 PM  
I'll never understand the auto-hate that pops up on any story about guns.
Especially those involving range accidents (which are more about poor safety practices than the right to bear arms) because they can happen anywhere in the world.

People would probably be surprised to know that you can legally own a gun in any country if:
A) You are rich.
B) You were born a family member of the douchbag ruling class.
or
C) You are a paid henchman for A or B.

The only difference in the US is we've given everyone an equal right to enjoy the same hobbies.

/It takes an odd kind of person to be in favor of having fewer privileges.
 
2012-07-02 02:53:16 PM  

tetsoushima: umad: tetsoushima: Oh, I don't know anything about guns. I am far more interested in penises.

Well you should fit right in with the anti-gun crowd then.

I'm not anti-gun, i'm just pro-penis.


They are pro-penis too so you have some common ground. They do prefer the large penises though. They can be downright rude to somebody if they think that person has a small penis.

I think they should just be more careful about stretching out their butt-holes so much so they don't have to be so picky, but what do I know? Maybe stretching it out like sleeve of wizard is just an unavoidable consequence of routine buttsecks. I can't say for sure, because unlike them, I don't pretend to be an expert in things that I have no experience in.
 
2012-07-02 02:56:47 PM  

KierzanDax: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.

I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!


You lack significant knowledge on the subject. It takes a lot less energy than you seem to think to set off C4. Allow me to explain how you would go about this in the real world.

Take 7.65 ammo and disassemble. Pour out 90% of the powder, and install a very small wad against what is left. Pack the rest with C4 (over pack it a bit), now CAREFULLY re-compress the round.

When that round is fired, the primer sets off the powder charge, which easily sets off the C4 (I'm pretty sure the primer will do it all by itself though). Doubly so because C4 is pressure and heat sensitive.

You can also pressure form C4 into shapes, like bullets for instance. ;)
 
2012-07-02 03:02:33 PM  

i.r.id10t: SupplySideJesus:

*Is $630 too much to pay for a NIB MA legal WASR 10?

That is about $200 over what they go for here in a Free state, but the premium may be worth it to you due to the limited number available for legal sale in MA

/ paid $289 for a WASR-10 in early '08
// traded even up for a $900 O/U 20ga shotgun Dec '08 - thanks Obama!


Limited number is an understatement. But there's only so much I'm willing to pay for the most over-produced weapon in history, and a stamped version at that.

And my point, HeadLever, is to never let it get to that point in the first place... because you're always going to lose.
 
2012-07-02 03:06:33 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Seriously, though. What the fark are you going to do with an AK47? You going to take on the government when it comes to take your guns away? LOL.


Target shoot, hunt, or defend my home just as I would with any other semi-automatic rifle, because that's what it is and no more, just looks a bit different.
 
2012-07-02 03:07:30 PM  

SupplySideJesus: is to never let it get to that point in the first place... because you're always going to lose.


And my original point is that sometimes your choices in the matter are sometimes limited. Again, just ask Randy Weaver.

/though he and his family did walk away with a couple million so I guess that is somewhat of a consolation prize in the matter.
 
2012-07-02 03:08:12 PM  

Mister Peejay: OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.

That's what I came here to say.

/the Internet told me so


I learned mine from the movies:

Run for it Marty!!!!!!

www.imfdb.org
 
2012-07-02 03:42:37 PM  

aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.


As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
2012-07-02 03:50:08 PM  

dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.

As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


Statistically speaking, though, he's 100% accurate in your case; you provide the 1:1 ratio of IT Professional:camo-wearing redneck he suggests. ;-)
 
2012-07-02 03:52:51 PM  

stevarooni: dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.

As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Statistically speaking, though, he's 100% accurate in your case; you provide the 1:1 ratio of IT Professional:camo-wearing redneck he suggests. ;-)


Even better, while I'm not an accountant per se, I've written custom accounting software.
 
2012-07-02 03:56:14 PM  

way south: /It takes an odd kind of person to be in favor of having fewer privileges.


Most of the free world is "odd" by your definition.

I know you can't and won't ever understand it but before you jump in with "they're all wrong and we're right" you might just think about it for a minute. Your way is not the only right way to run a country.
 
2012-07-02 04:12:59 PM  

Jument: way south: /It takes an odd kind of person to be in favor of having fewer privileges.

Most of the free world is "odd" by your definition.

I know you can't and won't ever understand it but before you jump in with "they're all wrong and we're right" you might just think about it for a minute. Your way is not the only right way to run a country.


That's true, of course. There are many ways to run a country. Some good, some bad, but few others have stood for 223 years.
 
2012-07-02 04:36:33 PM  

dittybopper: stevarooni: dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.

As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Statistically speaking, though, he's 100% accurate in your case; you provide the 1:1 ratio of IT Professional:camo-wearing redneck he suggests. ;-)

Even better, while I'm not an accountant per se, I've written custom accounting software.


Good god man, you are the perfect storm of AK ownership!
 
2012-07-02 04:42:38 PM  

dittybopper: Jument: way south: /It takes an odd kind of person to be in favor of having fewer privileges.

Most of the free world is "odd" by your definition.

I know you can't and won't ever understand it but before you jump in with "they're all wrong and we're right" you might just think about it for a minute. Your way is not the only right way to run a country.

That's true, of course. There are many ways to run a country. Some good, some bad, but few others have stood for 223 years.


This isn't an AR15 thread....
 
2012-07-02 04:50:53 PM  

malaktaus: CSB: During my second deployment to Iraq my company found numerous weapons caches, with a great many AK-47s and ammo, as well as a variety of other weapons. One day when not much was going on my platoon leader decided that we would take some of the captured weapons and ammo and go out and shoot it, because A) shooting guns is fun and B) knowing how to use the enemy's weapons could come in handy, you'll never know. Just about everyone in the platoon fhad already fired off a few magazines when an urgent message came through on the radio telling us to immediately desist. Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired. They didn't really keep any detalied records of these caches, so it was entirely possible that some of the ammunition we had found was of the doctored variety.


That practice might explain some hilarious Youtube Videos.
 
2012-07-02 05:26:55 PM  

wee: OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.

This is the part that got me. From the article, it sounds like it went off when he racked the slide. I know one sure way to make that happen, and it's when you use a metal file to convert a semi auto into a slamfire full auto. Or the sear is bad. That or he shot the guy. Either way, the article says that he had the gun worked on, it didn't say who did the working.


Or he had his finger on the trigger when he racked the slide. You tend to grip with the hand holding the gun when you pull on the slide with the other. If you're dumb enough to put your finger on the trigger, it will subconsciously squeeze too.

I've seen it happen to someone before handling a pistol, and AK's have a pistol grip. Also a good reason to keep it pointed in a clear direction.
 
2012-07-02 05:43:32 PM  

rockhound: wee: OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.

This is the part that got me. From the article, it sounds like it went off when he racked the slide. I know one sure way to make that happen, and it's when you use a metal file to convert a semi auto into a slamfire full auto. Or the sear is bad. That or he shot the guy. Either way, the article says that he had the gun worked on, it didn't say who did the working.

Or he had his finger on the trigger when he racked the slide. You tend to grip with the hand holding the gun when you pull on the slide with the other. If you're dumb enough to put your finger on the trigger, it will subconsciously squeeze too.

I've seen it happen to someone before handling a pistol, and AK's have a pistol grip. Also a good reason to keep it pointed in a clear direction.


As dumb as that is, it still shouldn't result in a shot if the disconnector is working.
 
wee
2012-07-02 05:55:58 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: As dumb as that is, it still shouldn't result in a shot if the disconnector is working.


That's the part that gave me pause. The bit about the gun being worked on was an odd twist I thought. Or it could be he just pulled the trigger after racking it.

I imagine the cops will have an armorer look over it.
 
2012-07-02 06:03:33 PM  

Jument: way south: /It takes an odd kind of person to be in favor of having fewer privileges.

Most of the free world is "odd" by your definition.

I know you can't and won't ever understand it but before you jump in with "they're all wrong and we're right" you might just think about it for a minute. Your way is not the only right way to run a country.


Most of the "free" world Is lead by a handful of oligarchs who only think about what is best for their rule rather than what is most fair for the individual. A man like Stalin would have you carry a rifle to defend him in war and surrender it for his own peace of mind when the threat is gone. He will tell you it's fair and logical.

Whats fair to me is to keep My Mosin nagant is for my own purposes. Not his or anyone else's.

I won't pretend to know what every other individual wants. But I do know that the more restrictions we place on a society, the less likely people are to find happiness.
 
2012-07-02 06:12:47 PM  

dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.

As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


It seems like there are a lot of us that fir both those categories.
 
2012-07-02 06:20:45 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American
- speaks with a southern drawl
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab'
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend


Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. But those guys are farking retards of the highest order. An after-party for the special olympics track team at Pizza Hut would involve more interesting, and intelligent conversation than a room full of those mutants.

So yeah, I'm pretty safe on the 'friend shoots me with his AK-47' front...


Yes, you are stereotyping. You're probably also the type of person who talks about what asshats people who stereotype are, as long as they aren't stereotyping the way you are. I own two.
- I AM an American
- My family is from Massachusetts, so I don't have a drawl, sorry
- Stopped wearing cammies the day my discharge went through
- The only "American Flag" clothing I own are from some races I ran (I'm not even the slow and couch potato American)
- I hate country music
- I pronounce arab properly
- I avoid politics for the most part.

The only other guy I know who owns an AK is my cousin's husband. He's a 6'4" gay black man from Connecticut. I'm pretty sure he'd kick your ass.
 
2012-07-02 06:44:48 PM  

JesseL: dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.

As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

It seems like there are a lot of us that fir both those categories.


Well, with some sprucing up I can opine on many subjects. I think we're just aspen for a little respect, and for people to recognize that our bark is worse unless they don't leave us alone, those sons'a'birches.
 
2012-07-02 06:45:32 PM  

devildog123: He's a 6'4" gay black man from Connecticut. I'm pretty sure he'd kick your ass.


Are you sure "kick" is the right verb there?

/Just sayin'.
 
2012-07-02 06:49:07 PM  

aninconvenienterection: dittybopper: stevarooni: dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: .I am just as likely to run into a IT professional or an accountant at the range shooting an AK as I am camo-wearing redneck.

As an IT professional and camo-wearing redneck, allow me to point out that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Statistically speaking, though, he's 100% accurate in your case; you provide the 1:1 ratio of IT Professional:camo-wearing redneck he suggests. ;-)

Even better, while I'm not an accountant per se, I've written custom accounting software.

Good god man, you are the perfect storm of AK ownership!


Oddly enough, I don't own one. I used to own one, before it was cool. Now I just carry a flintlock, because I'm the ultimate in hipsterism.

Well, except for the guy who brings a matchlock to the primitive biathlons, but that's going too far. Might as well just build a Kirk Cannon out of bamboo if you are gonna shoot one of those.
 
2012-07-02 06:57:45 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American

check
- speaks with a southern drawl
no
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it
own some camo, only wear it when hunting
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing
no Scratch that, I just realized the free shirt I won from Springfield Armory has a bit of a flag motiff on the back.
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool
no
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab'
no
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend
I'm really more the RON PAUL type

I got the perfect pic for this:
sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-07-02 07:01:39 PM  

dittybopper: False. The Southern states started the war by firing on Fort Sumter.


True, and furthermore they did attempt to invade the North when they were in a strategic position to do so. They primarily fought a defensive war because they were at a huge disadvantage in men and materiel, and therefore generally had no real choice in the matter.
 
2012-07-02 07:52:17 PM  
If this thread didn't get a laugh out of you, you're dead inside.
 
2012-07-02 07:55:21 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American
- speaks with a southern drawl
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab'
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend


Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. But those guys are farking retards of the highest order. An after-party for the special olympics track team at Pizza Hut would involve more interesting, and intelligent conversation than a room full of those mutants.

So yeah, I'm pretty safe on the 'friend shoots me with his AK-47' front...


Let's see...
-Yes
-No
-No
-No
-No
-No
-No

Me and my WASR-10 AK say that's below the Mendoza Line buddy. On top of that, I'm a graduate student in a Liberal Arts field, a certified teacher, own more than one gun, have a CCW permit, carry often, and could probably provide you with plenty of intelligent conversation.

Just goes to show, you never know who might be a shooter.
 
2012-07-02 08:07:23 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American Red-blooded.
- speaks with a southern drawl Nope. I'm a Barkeater.
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it Yes, but mostly just my old Army uniforms, and some hunting clothes. Oh, and a couple t-shirts.
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing Actually, apart from the uniforms, I don't think I have anything like that. I generally wear muted earth tones, or grey.
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool Actually, for that kind of stuff I prefer Celtic music, especially bagpipes.
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab' I do this occasionally, but more for ironic hipsterish reasons*.
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend Meh. I don't like the guy, but unless someone else brings him up, I'm not that interested in talking about it.

Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. But those guys are farking retards of the highest order. An after-party for the special olympics track team at Pizza Hut would involve more interesting, and intelligent conversation than a room full of those mutants.

So yeah, I'm pretty safe on the 'friend shoots me with his AK-47' front...


Except that they just might be able to make you look like a fool rhetorically. You might make certain assumptions when you meet me, that will turn out to be incredibly wrong. Yes, I have certain verbal affectations that I tend to use, mainly so that I sound like "plain folk", and yes, I don't walk around in a suit or tie. I know my way in the woods. Then again, I've written software to decode telemetry from ham radio satellites. I carry a slide rule because calculators make math too easy. Hell, I designed and built a working analog calculator out of LEGOs in order to show my son how addition and subtraction work. Shakespeare and Dostoyevskiy share my bookshelf with Foxworthy and Python.
 
2012-07-02 08:07:51 PM  

dittybopper: Might as well just build a Kirk Cannon out of bamboo if you are gonna shoot one of those.


I am trying to decide if this is a great reference, or the greatest reference. I could go either way.
 
2012-07-02 08:29:28 PM  

aninconvenienterection: dittybopper: Might as well just build a Kirk Cannon out of bamboo if you are gonna shoot one of those.

I am trying to decide if this is a great reference, or the greatest reference. I could go either way.


This is the person that I call "Matchlock Guy". He's tougher than Kirk, but probably gets less strange.

farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2012-07-02 08:31:16 PM  

dittybopper: Shakespeare and Dostoyevskiy share my bookshelf with Foxworthy and Python.


Just remembered, I have an entire bookshelf of things like the Federalist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, Democracy in America, Common Sense, etc., and yes, I've read them all.
 
2012-07-02 08:52:44 PM  

dittybopper: aninconvenienterection: dittybopper: Might as well just build a Kirk Cannon out of bamboo if you are gonna shoot one of those.

I am trying to decide if this is a great reference, or the greatest reference. I could go either way.

This is the person that I call "Matchlock Guy". He's tougher than Kirk, but probably gets less strange.

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 375x500]


Matchlock Guy does indeed look plenty tough, and sure, he has some sweet duds and a winning smile but I am not so sure he could stand up to that 2-handed chop/hammer/thingy that Kirk employs so effectively.

I trust your judgement though. You clearly have your finger on the pulse of the matter.
 
2012-07-02 08:53:20 PM  

aninconvenienterection: The problem is, if you arent in the habit of actively focusing on gun safety each and every time you touch a firearm, be it at home, in the woods, at the range, etc, you are less likely to notice when you are being unintentionally unsafe.


The truth. This man speaks it.

The solution to bad accidents is good habits. Habits aren't developed by only doing things rarely.
 
2012-07-02 08:58:01 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American
- speaks with a southern drawl
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab'
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend


Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. But those guys are farking retards of the highest order. An after-party for the special olympics track team at Pizza Hut would involve more interesting, and intelligent conversation than a room full of those mutants.

So yeah, I'm pretty safe on the 'friend shoots me with his AK-47' front...


Sure, I'll feed the troll... why not:

- is American - Yep
- speaks with a southern drawl - From the Bay Area, but no strong lisp.
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it - Nope
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing - Nope (I thought that was against the flag rules)
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool - Can't stand country music
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab' - I'm not a retard
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend - I hate politics, both sides are f'ing morons.
 
2012-07-02 09:02:13 PM  

glassbottomboatcaptain: Luckily, there is no plausible scenario in my foreseeable future that involves me being friends with someone who owns an AK-47.

That's not because I'm that adverse to guns. It's just because there is a very specific type of person who buys a recreational AK-47, generally (but not always, I'm not stereotyping here):
- is American
- speaks with a southern drawl
- owns and happily wears camouflage clothing despite having no actual need for it
- owns at least one pair of 'American flag' clothing
- thinks those songs country singers write when you go to war with other countries are cool
- pronounces 'arab' 'A-rab'
- brings up Obama more often in conversation than a freshly dumped guy brings up his ex-girlfriend


Ok, maybe I'm stereotyping. But those guys are farking retards of the highest order. An after-party for the special olympics track team at Pizza Hut would involve more interesting, and intelligent conversation than a room full of those mutants.

So yeah, I'm pretty safe on the 'friend shoots me with his AK-47' front...


Also... you didn't specify from your list if all or just one of those horrible horrible horrible traits would keep you from making friends with AK47 owners. Does someone need to match your entire list or just one aspect? For example, how about a european that pronounces it "a-rab"?
 
2012-07-02 10:00:45 PM  

akula: Famous Thamas: It sounds like they headed out to an outdoor range after hours for some gun shootin/drinkin/foolin around time.

If the range was in operation, then yes the range master should have been all over that idiot for going down range.

Yup.

Whenever I read about people griping about "Range Nazis" who are coming down on shooters for unsafe practices, this is the kind of crap that results when nobody gives a damn about safety. People going downrange on hot ranges, others dicking with weapons during a cold range, other morons who don't have the first clue how to handle their guns safely at any time, etc.

If you're shooting at an unmanned range (not just one where you're trespassing after hours), one person needs to be appointed rangemaster and everybody MUST obey the commands.

Really, this is why I don't use unstaffed ranges... as much as I love guns and the majority of shooters are decent people, there's a significant minority of shooters who are just cast iron assholes with a "you're not the boss of me complex."


I must run with a different crowd. Been shooting many times at gravel pits/hunting camp. No one person was in charge, everyone knew gun safety and common sense, and no one got hurt/no ADs.
 
2012-07-03 03:48:23 AM  
How farked up DOES an AK47 have to be that it starts jamming after being serviced?

wait

How farked up does an AK47 have to be that it NEEDS SERVICED?!?!

/live gun is like your mom drunk, never know when she's gonna go off.
 
2012-07-03 05:29:04 AM  

prjindigo: How farked up DOES an AK47 have to be that it starts jamming after being serviced?

wait

How farked up does an AK47 have to be that it NEEDS SERVICED?!?!

/live gun is like your mom drunk, never know when she's gonna go off.


I think this misconception is why alot of people get in trouble with the damn things.
All guns need servicing. All guns should be inspected regularly.

The longer you put it off, the more dangerous your potential malfunctions can become.
 
2012-07-03 07:47:23 AM  

ongbok: KierzanDax: malaktaus: Apparently before our unit got there the 101st had also found numerous weapons caches in the area, but instead of merely confiscating them they would occasionally replace the regular ammunition with ammo provided by the CIA, in which the gunpowder had been replaced by C4 so that it would explode when fired.

I call bullshiat.

The "CIA spiking ammo" urban myth has been around since Vietnam. A rifle primer doesn't have the energy needed to detonate the C4.

Someone just didn't want you guys having fun!

Read Akula's post about "Operation Eldest Son". Apparently it isn't an urban myth.


the SOG also did this trick with motor shells. The goal was to make the VC troops scared of their equipment.
 
2012-07-03 07:10:24 PM  

skinink: OldManDownDRoad: Obviously faked. Everyone knows that AKs never jam.

Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.


To be fair to the AK, it DID fire, even when "jammed!"

Shooter was an incredible idiot.
 
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