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(Huffington Post)   Obamacare support rises from 'festering ingrown toenail' to 'cold sore' after Supreme Court ruling   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 113
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2122 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jul 2012 at 11:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 08:48:30 AM
like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.
 
2012-07-02 09:12:51 AM

Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.


i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."
 
2012-07-02 09:16:47 AM

FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."


I think the GOP is going regret a lot of things.
 
2012-07-02 09:20:34 AM
I know just from the G+ Facebook and a couple other forums, people are actually talking about what Obamacare actually is and how it works. It ceased being a nebulous boogieman as a side effect of the screaming about ARE FREEDOMS, people did research.

FlashHarry: i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."


Indeed.
 
2012-07-02 09:26:08 AM

FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."


The best part is that Obama's own facebook page called it Obamacare after it was upheld. He's in deep "OH SNAP" territory here.
 
2012-07-02 09:41:24 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

The best part is that Obama's own facebook page called it Obamacare after it was upheld. He's in deep "OH SNAP" territory here.


Whoever was involved with the PR for the ACA, aka Obamacare, should be fired, they let the misinformation about the whole thing get way out of hand.
 
2012-07-02 09:41:33 AM

Weaver95: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

I think the GOP is going regret a lot of things.


Why would you expect them to start now?
 
2012-07-02 09:45:44 AM
A cold sore? So Obamacare gave us herpes?
 
2012-07-02 09:48:59 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

The best part is that Obama's own facebook page called it Obamacare after it was upheld. He's in deep "OH SNAP" territory here.


The court ruling almost provides a PR do-over. Now's the time to capitalize on the fact that the public likes nearly every aspect of the law when it is explained to them individually. They should really go after that, own "Obamacare," and start focusing like a laser on the more popular aspects of it. Constant, consistent drumbeat between now and November.
 
2012-07-02 09:53:58 AM

Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.


I'm already used to it. My daughter is still on my plan, I can switch companies without them excluding my "preexisting conditions", and they can't cut me off if I become unprofitable.

I think that is awesome. Should have happened decades ago.
 
2012-07-02 09:57:13 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

I'm already used to it. My daughter is still on my plan, I can switch companies without them excluding my "preexisting conditions", and they can't cut me off if I become unprofitable.

I think that is awesome. Should have happened decades ago.


Remember - to the Republicans, that's an evil that will destroy all life in the universe as we know it. so basically you and your family are bad people who are going to burn in hell for socialisms and evilness. or something.
 
2012-07-02 09:59:27 AM

dennysgod: PC LOAD LETTER: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

The best part is that Obama's own facebook page called it Obamacare after it was upheld. He's in deep "OH SNAP" territory here.

Whoever was involved with the PR for the ACA, aka Obamacare, should be fired, they let the misinformation about the whole thing get way out of hand.


I may be giving too much credit but I think some part of the strategy is letting the rhetoric from the far right work itself into a tizzy by rebutting sparingly. Intentional or not, letting the right wing base look unhinged works for Obama to some degree.
 
2012-07-02 10:01:57 AM

Weaver95: Marcus Aurelius: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

I'm already used to it. My daughter is still on my plan, I can switch companies without them excluding my "preexisting conditions", and they can't cut me off if I become unprofitable.

I think that is awesome. Should have happened decades ago.

Remember - to the Republicans, that's an evil that will destroy all life in the universe as we know it. so basically you and your family are bad people who are going to burn in hell for socialisms and evilness. or something.


That certainly explains why it was THEIR plan to begin with. Obama stole it. And now they're left with nothing.
 
2012-07-02 10:02:10 AM
It's sort of sad, that the very things that so many Conservatives had been trying to pile into health care reform, they got, and now they can't even claim the victory lap.

To be fair, the real winners in this scenario are still the insurance companies, but rather than tout the compromise that was necessary to get some reform in, folks have removed their victory in that arena.
 
2012-07-02 10:04:01 AM

hubiestubert: It's sort of sad, that the very things that so many Conservatives had been trying to pile into health care reform, they got, and now they can't even claim the victory lap.

To be fair, the real winners in this scenario are still the insurance companies, but rather than tout the compromise that was necessary to get some reform in, folks have removed their victory in that arena.


the insurance companies seem to be quite happy about this situation. they got what they wanted, Obama is catching hell for it, and life goes on.
 
2012-07-02 10:06:55 AM
Amazing that people would accept it once the Supreme Court ruled on it.

I have a sad though, because I bet by election day, you still find people that believe it has been repealed or struck down, because CNN and Fox both had up that it was struck down, until the government got to them and made them change their story...
 
2012-07-02 10:08:54 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert: It's sort of sad, that the very things that so many Conservatives had been trying to pile into health care reform, they got, and now they can't even claim the victory lap.

To be fair, the real winners in this scenario are still the insurance companies, but rather than tout the compromise that was necessary to get some reform in, folks have removed their victory in that arena.

the insurance companies seem to be quite happy about this situation. they got what they wanted, Obama is catching hell for it, and life goes on.


They staved off a universal health care plan that would have made their entire industry redundant and useless. We are a step closer, but it will be a generation, possibly two, before we can even think about reform to bring us to the point that most other civilized nations took already. Those creepy hellholes like Canuckistan, England or those broke down hovels in Europe...
 
2012-07-02 10:12:54 AM
That's probably because more people now realize they should actually read about what's in it instead of just ignorantly complaining.
 
2012-07-02 10:19:37 AM

hubiestubert: We are a step closer, but it will be a generation, possibly two, before we can even think about reform to bring us to the point that most other civilized nations took already.


I think we'll have to see about that. With the ACA requiring a rebate if they don't spend enough on actual care we may see the insurance companies leading the next reform charge. If they could dump the costly people into a single payer system while removing that requirement and converting to only cadillac plans they might see that as a gravy train. Insurance companies have made out ok in many countries with nationalized healthcare by doing just that.
 
2012-07-02 10:20:26 AM

TwoHead: hubiestubert: We are a step closer, but it will be a generation, possibly two, before we can even think about reform to bring us to the point that most other civilized nations took already.

I think we'll have to see about that. With the ACA requiring a rebate if they don't spend enough on actual care we may see the insurance companies leading the next reform charge. If they could dump the costly people into a single payer system while removing that requirement and converting to only cadillac plans they might see that as a gravy train. Insurance companies have made out ok in many countries with nationalized healthcare by doing just that.


they already did that.

It's called Medicare and Medicaid
 
2012-07-02 10:23:46 AM
Maybe I've been warped because of the years and years of Bush being in the 20s, but an approval rating in the high 40s seems pretty decent to me.
 
2012-07-02 10:28:51 AM

FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."


It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for them to take credit for it in a few years, that's for sure.
 
2012-07-02 10:31:56 AM

cameroncrazy1984: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for them to take credit for it in a few years, that's for sure.


I dunno. They seemed to have convinced their followers it was bad in the first place aven though they came up with it. Never underestimate the the power of angry willful ignorance.
 
2012-07-02 10:45:37 AM

cameroncrazy1984: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for them to take credit for it in a few years, that's for sure.


The GOP invented the farking bill 18 years ago, and their candidate for President implemented a version of it himself first.

No it isn't.
 
2012-07-02 10:51:35 AM

GAT_00: cameroncrazy1984: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for them to take credit for it in a few years, that's for sure.

The GOP invented the farking bill 18 years ago, and their candidate for President implemented a version of it himself first.

No it isn't.


Romney has already claimed credit for saving the auto industry, after saying that they should go down in flames, and that those flames will only stoke the fires of MOAR risky capitalism.

At this point, there really isn't anything that he won't morph into as his position. And that explains very easily why he wants to avoid appearing on those Lamestream Media outlets, who seem to keep footage for more than a few hours. At least Drudge and Breitbart's folks have that lovely goldfish quality that they don't talk back...
 
2012-07-02 11:17:35 AM
Headline is a great example of herp in the derp.
 
2012-07-02 11:26:29 AM
Obamacare is a start. It does a lot, but there are obviously flaws. The people who argue the whole thing is out to destroy the country are retards. Costs will go up over time though, because the insurance companies are incented to provide more health care, not less, which will result in higher costs across the board, and Congress will have to tweak the health care laws to prevent bubbles. But overall, it's a start. I'm much more in favor of it than against it. I think the people who are against it have no idea how hard it was to get this passed in the first place, how big a deal this is - the GOP was almost universally opposed to it. And people don't even know how good they now have it.
 
2012-07-02 11:32:35 AM

bdub77: Costs will go up over time though, because the insurance companies are incented to provide more health care, not less, which will result in higher costs across the board,


Then why hasn't it happened in Mass?
 
2012-07-02 11:50:14 AM
Probably because the Supreme Court stories forced news agencies to explain the provisions more clearly.

Funny. Every time the specifics get explained, support goes up.
 
2012-07-02 11:51:07 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: The best part is that Obama's own facebook page called it Obamacare after it was upheld.


Nope.

Best part....Forever.

/you knew that already
 
2012-07-02 11:51:51 AM

bdub77: Costs will go up over time though, because the insurance companies are incented to provide more health care, not less, which will result in higher costs across the board,


That "more health care" will be preventative. It will reduce costs in the long run.
 
2012-07-02 11:51:53 AM
I don't understand how an opinion poll gets swayed by a SCOTUS ruling. It's the same exact policy. Is it just that people saw one team "win," and now they want to switch sides?

This may be one of the biggest problems in politics today. People really don't understand the difference between a functioning democracy and a WWE feud.
 
2012-07-02 11:52:53 AM

bdub77: Obamacare is a start. It does a lot, but there are obviously flaws. The people who argue the whole thing is out to destroy the country are retards. Costs will go up over time though, because the insurance companies are incented to provide more health care, not less, which will result in higher costs across the board, and Congress will have to tweak the health care laws to prevent bubbles. But overall, it's a start. I'm much more in favor of it than against it. I think the people who are against it have no idea how hard it was to get this passed in the first place, how big a deal this is - the GOP was almost universally opposed to it. And people don't even know how good they now have it.


Social security as it stands today barely resembles what was first passed in 1935. Obama and Co. got America's foot in the door on health care reform. Future Congresses now have something to build upon but taking the first step was huge.
 
2012-07-02 11:55:10 AM
If 48% supporting is a cold sore, then then the Republican party must have AIDS by now, right?
 
2012-07-02 11:55:35 AM

imontheinternet: Is it just that people saw one team "win," and now they want to switch sides?


People like to be on a "winning" side. In politics, if you can make one side's discourse a "dirty word" among an influential few, others will fall in line. Not that anyone in American media echo chambers would ever contemplate such a thing, of course.
 
2012-07-02 11:55:36 AM

imontheinternet: I don't understand how an opinion poll gets swayed by a SCOTUS ruling. It's the same exact policy. Is it just that people saw one team "win," and now they want to switch sides?


Well consider that when the GOP runs around saying it's "unconstitutional" some people think they're being serious. And when it's found not to be, that makes the GOP look dumb.
 
2012-07-02 11:57:34 AM

imontheinternet: I don't understand how an opinion poll gets swayed by a SCOTUS ruling. It's the same exact policy. Is it just that people saw one team "win," and now they want to switch sides?

This may be one of the biggest problems in politics today. People really don't understand the difference between a functioning democracy and a WWE feud.


Politics is no longer about public service, but a sports match that must be won at all costs. This is what sound-bite celebrity culture has gotten us. It will not change until we have some serious election reform. We need fairness doctrine, federal election funds,and instant-runoff voting, at a minimum.
 
2012-07-02 12:00:54 PM

Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.


The funny thing is, I don't think even the hardcore ACA supports (I'm about to be proved wrong) think this is the be all and end all. This is the bill that could make it through a fairly partisan time period in American politics, avoid the filibusters, etc. It's a first stab at this and parts of it aren't going to work, parts will be will lacking, etc.

The whole thing is designed to phase in solely with time for amending of the bill as needed. What all Americans need to agree is we spent way too much of our GDP for shiat returns in healthcare (unless you're lucky like me and work for a place that offers Cadillac healthcare plans). So we need to engage in structural, not partisan, reforms of it.

/I'm betting in 5 to 10 years ACA will be radically different
//the only question is if it is improved by a Congress that gives a shiat or gutted by a reactionary moment
 
2012-07-02 12:01:31 PM
Democrats: "We have rights and just because the majority doesn't want gay marriage doesn't mean that right should be taken away."

Republicans: "We have rights and just because the majority wants socialized medicine doesn't mean our rights should be taken away."

What if you're both right?

Republicans and Democrats, farking it up for the rest of us.
 
2012-07-02 12:03:05 PM

tgregory: Republicans: "We have rights and just because the majority wants socialized medicine doesn't mean our rights should be taken away."


Please explain exactly what right you thinks has been taken away by Obamacare.
 
2012-07-02 12:04:50 PM

TwoHead: hubiestubert: We are a step closer, but it will be a generation, possibly two, before we can even think about reform to bring us to the point that most other civilized nations took already.

I think we'll have to see about that. With the ACA requiring a rebate if they don't spend enough on actual care we may see the insurance companies leading the next reform charge. If they could dump the costly people into a single payer system while removing that requirement and converting to only cadillac plans they might see that as a gravy train. Insurance companies have made out ok in many countries with nationalized healthcare by doing just that.


Would it be a good idea to have a single payer system for most types of basic care - anything that isn't an ER visit or a life altering illness - and then just make everyone by catastrophic health insurance plans? Is that the worst of both worlds?
 
2012-07-02 12:05:02 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

I'm already used to it. My daughter is still on my plan, I can switch companies without them excluding my "preexisting conditions", and they can't cut me off if I become unprofitable.

I think that is awesome. Should have happened decades ago.


Why do you support forcing companies to have to give you their labor and property? We already abolished slavery. Why do we have to fight this battle again?

Am I doing it right?
 
2012-07-02 12:05:24 PM
Well, honestly, let's look at the situation:

Obama: "We need health care reform. You guys can't keep excluding people because of pre-existing conditions and dropping people when they get sick and cutting people off because they've got cancer. That's terrible and it needs to be fixed."

Insurance executives: "Yeah, it's terrible, but have you seen the costs of this stuff? If we didn't exclude people because of pre-existing conditions and trim our roles of sick people, everyone's premiums would be insanely high. We're all businesses, you know, we're doing this for profit, not for the common good. That's the government's job."

Obama: "True that. Tell you what. We'll pass a law saying that 'everyone' has to have health insurance. With that many new customers, with that built-in customer base, you can still make your profits. In return, you can't kick anyone off for being sick or getting sick or using up too much money."

Insurance executives: "Holy snap, that's a pretty good deal. Our suppliers aren't going to like it, but this makes good business sense to us. Sign us up."
 
2012-07-02 12:07:00 PM

imontheinternet: I don't understand how an opinion poll gets swayed by a SCOTUS ruling. It's the same exact policy. Is it just that people saw one team "win," and now they want to switch sides?


I'm sure a lot has to do with people actually LOOKING at what Obamacare does. They may have started out as being resigned to a "bad" ruling (like the Left was w/Citizens United) but, once they started researching, realized it wasn't the big, bloated, Death Panel boogeyman FoxNews said it was.
 
2012-07-02 12:07:31 PM

FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."


I said this from the beginning.

The term "The Big Bang" was an epithet coined by the supporters of the Steady State hypothesis. But as it became a proven theory, the name went from being an attempt at ridicule to a way to explain what it is to people that couldn't grasp the bits about Planck time and singularities.

And so it is about ObamaCare. It has been repeated so much, people can't stop it now. It's care, from Obama. And, as a bonus, we also got to see what the Republiconservabertarians were going to say about it if it were struck down (so they just look like whiners now).

i301.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-02 12:10:56 PM
48% of people like it. 52% don't. Some meaningful percentage of those 52% don't like it because it is not liberal enough and are holding out hope for the single payer fairy to swoop in and fix everything. I have seen estimates showing the single payer supporters to be as much as 10-15% of the 52% number.

Maybe some percentage of unhappy liberals are peeled away by an esoteric liberal 3rd party but no way does it rise over a percent or so. This is not good news for the GOP.
 
2012-07-02 12:10:58 PM

cameroncrazy1984: It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for them to take credit for it in a few years, that's for sure.


I want to agree with you but I can't. They're already drafting talking points about how they were pro-gay marriage all along and how being pro-gay marriage is consistent with the "small government" America they've always dreamed of. One group even went as far as congratulating Obama for coming to the same opinion that Dick Cheney came to 4 years ago. (Of course stating you're pro-gay marriage once you've retired from public office versus during an election year where you're up for re-election are exactly the same thing).

Once support of ACA hits 51% they'll have talking points ready about how this was all based on Mitt Romney's plan in Massachusetts, just like bailing out the auto companies was Mitt Romney's idea too.

The sad part is that it'll work with their base.

"We Are At War With Eurasia. We Have Always Been At War With Eurasia."
 
2012-07-02 12:11:03 PM

MithrandirBooga: imontheinternet: I don't understand how an opinion poll gets swayed by a SCOTUS ruling. It's the same exact policy. Is it just that people saw one team "win," and now they want to switch sides?

This may be one of the biggest problems in politics today. People really don't understand the difference between a functioning democracy and a WWE feud.

Politics is no longer about public service, but a sports match that must be won at all costs. This is what sound-bite celebrity culture has gotten us. It will not change until we have some serious election reform. We need fairness doctrine, federal election funds,and instant-runoff voting, at a minimum.


The only problem with your proposal is that in order to be implemented, it would have to be approved by the very politicians who currently benefit from the lack of a fairness doctrine, federal election funds and instant-runoff voting.

/see also the law passed a few years ago that provides Congressmen an automatic pay raise every term unless they specifically vote against it
//and such a "nay" vote would only apply to that term's pay raise -- they could still get another salary increase by not voting against it the following term
 
2012-07-02 12:11:48 PM

ha-ha-guy: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

The funny thing is, I don't think even the hardcore ACA supports (I'm about to be proved wrong) think this is the be all and end all.


I'm not a hardcore ACA supporter, but only because I wanted single-payer. As such, I support it from a "well, it's better than nothing" position. Even from that, I agree with you: Give it a generation or two and we'll have universal healthcare. The ACA as it stands now was the best possibility when dealing with the Party of No and the asshole Blue Dogs at the time.

/Now, many of the Blue Dogs are gone
//Replaced by the much worse Teabaggers
 
2012-07-02 12:12:00 PM

dennysgod: PC LOAD LETTER: FlashHarry: Weaver95: like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay. best get used to it.

i think they're going to regret calling it "obamacare."

The best part is that Obama's own facebook page called it Obamacare after it was upheld. He's in deep "OH SNAP" territory here.

Whoever was involved with the PR for the ACA, aka Obamacare, should be fired, they let the misinformation about the whole thing get way out of hand.


It's difficult to dispute strawmen and prove negatives.
 
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