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(CNN)   We are... Penn State... We are... So screwed   (cnn.com) divider line 117
    More: Followup, Penn State, Mike McQueary, Graham Spanier, Joe Paterno, graduate assistant, event scheduling, athletic director, Jerry Sandusky  
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6614 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Jul 2012 at 9:01 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-07-02 09:13:14 AM
8 votes:

WTF Indeed: Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"


I can't buy this argument, because as recently as 2007 Paterno was actively making sure players weren't disciplined by campus police.

And this is not the only instance of this. In an Aug. 12, 2005, email to Pennsylvania State University President Graham Spanier and others, Vicky Triponey, the university's standards and conduct officer, complained that Mr. Paterno believed she should have "no interest, (or business) holding our football players accountable to our community standards. The Coach is insistent he knows best how to discipline his players...and their status as a student when they commit violations of our standards should NOT be our concern...and I think he was saying we should treat football players different from other students in this regard."

I have to believe Paterno knew exactly what he was doing.
2012-07-02 09:28:01 AM
6 votes:

WTF Indeed: President of the college: "Hey guys, so we got this problem with a coach, and it's pretty bad. What should we do?"

Others: "This could look bad for us. Lets go ask Joe what we should do."

Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"

President of the college: "Okay, lets just let this go and hope nothing comes of it."

Others: "Sounds like a plan."


More like this...

Schultz to Curley: "So we have this three-step plan to talk to Sandusky, notify his charity and contact the Department of Welfare."

Curley: "Cool."

Next day...

Curley: "Hey, Schultz, I talked to Joe yesterday and how about we just do an internal investigation and politely ask Jerry not to do it again? Joe had a pretty shiatty season last year and people think he's too old to run the program. Plus if this ever got out, it could threaten our university's cashcow football program. Isn't it more humane to let Sandusky off instead of giving his victims the justice they deserve?"

Schultz: "Okay. Instead of following a good plan like the one we originally developed, let's do what Joe says because Joe is god around here. It's not like this will ever come back to bite us in the ass one day."

If they don't tear down that statute of Joe Paterno at Penn State, they need to follow the example set by out troops in Iraq and put a hood over it:

bezalel.secured.co.il

Your football god is dead. His legacy is in tatters. I only wish he had lived long enough to have to face Sandusky's victims and explain himself. Joe Paterno is a disgrace and a national embarrassment.
2012-07-02 09:54:02 AM
5 votes:

WTF Indeed: Let's look at this logically. If you've been with a company for 60 years and are beloved by everyone, and the President of the company comes to you one day and says. "One of the employees that reports to you has been stealing money from the company for years and it will hurt us publicly when this comes out. What do you think we should do?" Now you know that this looks terrible for you, since it's your section and this person has been working with you for years and you have personal relationship with this person. So you say, "Yes, something should be done, but please be as kind as you can to him." So the President of the company, after listening to you decides he'll just fire the guy rather than press charges and hurt the company."

Now ten years later, the books are wrong and the company is in trouble. The President says that you are to blame for this because everyone liked you and they didn't want to damage your image. So are the company's problems your fault for being beloved, or the President's fault for not doing his job and reporting the crime?


That's an awful analogy.

1) Paterno is not just an old employee, he is the head of the football program, the most powerful person on campus and one of the most powerful people in the state.

2) The vicim of the crime in your analogy is the company, the victim of this crime is a child and child predators are well known to have more than one victim.

3) The issue isn't covering up a past, embarassing mistake, but not acting and not preemptively stopping future crimes. If there weren't victims after this 'shower incident' it would have been just a black mark on his reputation. Since there were victims afterwards, it puts a big stain on everything about Joe Pa
2012-07-02 09:34:36 AM
5 votes:

WTF Indeed: What these emails show is that the executives of a major US college knew about child abuse, and when confronted with it they decided to ask a lower ranking employee. If your boss came in and asked you how you think he should do his job what are you going to tell him? More than likely it would end with the phrase, "Hey, but you're the boss. Do what you think is best.".


Seriously? You've gone completely off the rails. If my boss told me that kids were getting farked in our office, I'd put a stop to it. No, that's not me being an internet tough guy. I'd call the farking cops. You wouldn't do the same? Shame on you if not. Shame on JoePa and all of the culpable members of Penn State's administration.
2012-07-02 09:10:45 AM
5 votes:
They need to shut down the entire football program indefinitely.

Give the guys already on the team who have athletic scholarships the option to continue their education at Penn State for free, or help them find another university to play for.
2012-07-02 10:05:13 AM
4 votes:
Penn State football needs to be given the death penalty by the NCAA. I know some people say that this evil stuff wasn't committed by an "active" member of the football program, but it is pretty darn clear at this point that a) the football facilities were used, b) the football program knew about them and covered them up, c) the administration of the university knew about it and covered it up. This is a first time ever type of case and the NCAA needs to put its foot down. The law has handled Sandusky and Penn State is going to be hit with millions of dollars in law suits, but the breadth of the cover up is so deep that the entire football program needs to be shut down for at least 5 years and no one involved in the program from an administrative position should be allowed back in. That said, I do feel that players should be given the option to transfer to another school and still be allowed to play.
2012-07-02 09:50:50 AM
4 votes:
I'd always liked Paterno. From a dumb little kid to a guy approaching middle age who doesn't give a damn about football any more. When this first broke, I was disappointed, to say the least. What a way to throw away a legacy. What we knew then was bad enough. But now.... f*ck you, Joe Paterno.

Penn State needs to take down every reference to that guy on campus. And Penn State students, alumni and fans need to understand that this is about a lot more than football. It sucks, I know, but that's how it is and how it always will be from now on. He crapped all over whatever he'd built and deserves no honors.
2012-07-02 09:32:14 AM
4 votes:

WTF Indeed: Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"


There's a zero percent chance he said anything close to that.

WTF Indeed: What these emails show is that the executives of a major US college knew about child abuse, and when confronted with it they decided to ask a lower ranking employee. If your boss came in and asked you how you think he should do his job what are you going to tell him? More than likely it would end with the phrase, "Hey, but you're the boss. Do what you think is best.".


No, what they show is that in State College, PA, Joe Paterno wasn't a "lower ranking employee". Any suggestion to the contrary is naive and stupid. And bear in mind, Paterno already knew about Sandusky's proclivities in 1998, which is why he was told he'd never be the head coach at Penn State and fired as defensive coordinator. That was all Paterno.
2012-07-02 09:23:30 AM
4 votes:

UNC_Samurai: I have to believe Paterno knew exactly what he was doing.


Nobody told Joe Pa what to do, that's for sure. Regardless of whether he knew more about Sandusky than he let on, the fact is that nobody f*cked with the football program, and corruption inevitably results from that kind of power.
2012-07-02 09:15:23 AM
4 votes:
In an alleged e-mail dated February 26, 2001, Schultz writes to Curley that he assumes Curley's "got the ball" about a three-part plan to "talk with the subject asap regarding the future appropriate use of the University facility," ... "contacting the chair of the charitable organization" and "contacting the Department of Welfare," according to a source with knowledge of the case.
...
Curley indicates he no longer wants to contact child welfare authorities just yet. He refers to a conversation the day before with Paterno. It's not known what Paterno may have said to Curley.


Yeah. I think we can put to rest this whole "JoePa did what he was supposed to do" thing. Sorry Penn State fans, I think your god was just as dirty on this as anyone else.
2012-07-02 09:06:01 AM
4 votes:
I am an alumnus and I say they can all burn in hell, throw the book at every single one of them.
2012-07-02 04:22:19 PM
3 votes:
Count me as one of the minority then.. I'm an alumnus and while I figured Schulze, Curley, and Spanier were dirty, I thought JoePa had just made a grave error in his moral judgement. If this article is reporting the emails correctly and this stuff turns out to be true, then fark Joe too. I hope these bastards burn. I'm not one of these freaky Central PA types that worship the school, but I always felt a fair amount of pride about it. Now... the actions (or inaction) of these jackasses has brought down a great institution, and then even worse, allowed that infected asswhisker Sandusky to continue raping little boys...

It just disgusts me to think that I lived on that campus at the time this was all taking place. Something about Spanier at the time always seemed a little sketchy... I guess now I know why.
2012-07-02 11:02:08 AM
3 votes:

Aarontology: They need to shut down the entire football program indefinitely.

Give the guys already on the team who have athletic scholarships the option to continue their education at Penn State for free, or help them find another university to play for.


I'm not given to hyperbole, but Penn State needs to cease having a football rpgram, FOREVER, raze the stadium, sow salt on the feild and in its place create a memorial for all victims of sexual abuse, topped with a statue that should be named "The goddess of completely farked up Priorities".
2012-07-02 10:22:15 AM
3 votes:

Optimus Primate: EVERY SINGLE company meeting


What kind of dumbass company do you work for where this shiat is discussed at meetings? Tell him to knock it off and be professional.
2012-07-02 09:44:08 AM
3 votes:

srhp29: Why are we talking about shutting down the football program? Since the President of the University was in on this cover up, maybe it is the school that should be shut down for a while, which would automatically shut down the football team as well..


Oh, come on, that's just...

HotWingConspiracy: I'm still amazed that they rioted in support of a child rape cover up.


Actually, maybe that's not a bad idea.
2012-07-02 09:40:20 AM
3 votes:
I'm still amazed that they rioted in support of a child rape cover up.
2012-07-02 09:37:21 AM
3 votes:
Apparently the price of ones soul is a winning football team.

If there is a hell, I hope Joe Pa went to the special one, and Sandusky and every other enabler who covered for Sandusky joins him there soon.

I'm all for love and tolerance, but seriously, fark these people.
2012-07-02 09:31:19 AM
3 votes:
Wow... I didn't really believe Penn State should get the "death penalty" over this mess... but if these e-mails are true, then ABSOLUTELY. Kill that program, tear down the stadium and salt the earth.

Disgusting.

/When does MugzyBrown show up to defend Penn State, child rape, and Paterno?
2012-07-02 12:34:53 PM
2 votes:

Yanks_RSJ: RichieLaw: This. I mentioned some of this to a Penn State fan yesterday and she about ripped my head off. She said that this was akin to someone talking about your grandfather like a criminal. As it was my gf's birthday and this was one of her best friends I let it lie, but all I wanted to say was, "My grandfather never enabled child rape."

You can't even talk to them about it, they're completely nuts.

1) He's not your grandfather, you probably have never even met him
2) If my grandfather stood idly by while a known pedophile terrorized children, he deserved to be called a lot of horrible things

But yeah, there's no reasoning with people who treat Paterno like a secular deity.


Yeah, when this scandal first came out, I was shocked on how much of a weird little cult they have up in Happy Valley. It's rather pathetic.
2012-07-02 12:10:52 PM
2 votes:

DubyaHater: I would like think that if I witnessed such atrocities, I would have the balls to report it. I would also like to think that if I was not happy with the response, I would continue to tell my story until someone responded appropriately.
shiat, I hope I would have the balls to run in and stop what I was witnessing. There are not enough people in prison for this mess.


If McQuery had gone public at the time he probably would have ended up in a shallow grave withing a week.
2012-07-02 12:02:43 PM
2 votes:

bubbaprog: cettin: I am an alumnus and I say they can all burn in hell, throw the book at every single one of them.

You're in the minority. Most Penn State fans are in denial, claiming CNN is making everything up and that Paterno is completely innocent.


This. I mentioned some of this to a Penn State fan yesterday and she about ripped my head off. She said that this was akin to someone talking about your grandfather like a criminal. As it was my gf's birthday and this was one of her best friends I let it lie, but all I wanted to say was, "My grandfather never enabled child rape."
2012-07-02 11:55:44 AM
2 votes:

Gonz: No, people. Penn State can't get the death penalty. The lack of a football program might hurt businesses in State College, PA.


what's really gonna hurt PSU is the allegations that they completely lack ethics. that's the sort of thing that just destroys organizations. they'll tear themselves apart - how can you say that the football program is honorable when it's run by people who looked the other way while someone in their organization raped kids? you can't...and that's when it all falls apart.
2012-07-02 11:38:04 AM
2 votes:

Aarontology: rjakobi: First, if the NCAA didn't think it proper to shut down Miami's football program despite rogue boosters and hookers and spoiling their college athletes with favors, what makes you think they're gonna shut down Penn State with their coach having a boy service on the side unaffiliated with the football program?

They lied and covered it up to protect the football program and by extension, the university. Because Sandusky was so important to the program, they allowed him to go about raping children.

Destroy it.


Also, raping a child is far, far worse than spoiling a bunch of college athletes. Way worse.
2012-07-02 11:27:45 AM
2 votes:
It would be easy to say that this is a clear case of "a lack of institutional control", but that's really not the case. The institution was in control the entire time, and they chose to sanction systematic child rape in a not-so-roundabout way.
2012-07-02 11:13:00 AM
2 votes:

Magorn: Weaver95: If any of that turns out to be true, then Penn State has a very serious problem.

The most important of which is that somehow a FOOTBALL Coach managed to exert a degree of control over a major US university, that is usually only seen in doomsday religious cults.

Honest to holy God, How completely warped does your moral compass have to be that when you hear an eyewitness allegation of one of your employees RAPING a child (and you know he runs several charities that give him access to children) your first impulse is NOT to run screaming to the cops, but instead to check it out with the football coach, and let him convince you that covering the whole thing up is the "humane" thing to do?


Penn State football really is almost a religion. it's difficult to explain to people who haven't seen it first hand and up close....but to a lot of people in central Pa, Penn State football is the be all/end all of their lives. they live, breathe and love the people who run Penn State football.
2012-07-02 11:04:43 AM
2 votes:

ongbok: Penn State's football team is about to become the newest member of the Alantic-10. That is if the school isn't sued into community college status.


Does the Big Ten have a legal case to kick Penn State out? They were admitted in 1994, at the height of "Tickle Monster's" defense and "Saint Joe's" aura of running a clean, respectable program.

Penn State lying to protect its image, then cashing in because of that image.
2012-07-02 10:39:26 AM
2 votes:
If any football program deserved the death penalty it's this one. It spawned and maintained corporation dedicated to finding and collecting unprotected children for Sandusky to rape. The NCAA needs to kill it, and never associate with that school again. It's hard to imagine how the situation could have been worse, or how the people involved could have handled every element any worse. It was a collective abdication of simple humanity by the entire administration of the institution.
2012-07-02 10:30:58 AM
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: Paterno was used to giving the punishment to his players. Everywhere from cleaning the stadium after games, shoveling the stadium when it snowed. That kind of punishment.


When your players skip curfew, or get caught with a beer and they're under 21, then yes, I can see Paterno using those sorts of punishment. Getting criminal assault charges dismissed and interfering with the school's investigation are instances where he should have known better and let the authorities do their job.
2012-07-02 10:24:56 AM
2 votes:
Just wait until Sandusky starts giving up names of people and their involvement in the coverup or other people who enjoyed little boys with him in exchange for getting sentenced to a minimum security jail.
2012-07-02 10:21:39 AM
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: I'm pretty sure legally there was someone with higher authority. In fact, I'm know there a lot of people with higher authority at PSU than Paterno.


Legally, sure there were.

In actual practice? No there weren't.
2012-07-02 10:20:55 AM
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: Yanks_RSJ: There was no higher authority than Joe Paterno. None. Zero.

I'm pretty sure legally there was someone with higher authority. In fact, I'm know there a lot of people with higher authority at PSU than Paterno. You want to get angry because it's easier to blame one man rather than several up-until-this story nameless men who ran a university as stewards. Blame is easier when you have singular focus. "Bob did X wrong, shame on Bob." It's much harder to personally feel justice if it's "Larry, Tom, Sam, and Paul all hid Bob's X wrong." Bob committed a crime. Larry, Tom, Sam, and Paul covered it up. What you are doing here is blaming Paterno for Spanner and his lot not doing their job. Would you want to be blamed for your boss not doing their job? And before you scream how Paterno was the top authority, he wasn't. He was the football coach, not the President, vice-president, or dean.


So if Sandusky had done this to one of JoePa's grandson's i'm sure JoePa's response would have been the same? Or do you think JoePa would have made sure the bastard rotted in hell??

/But hey, they were just some poor kids who no one really gave a shiat about so that makes JoePa's lack of concern/action alright
2012-07-02 10:18:49 AM
2 votes:

MisterLoki: Nuke it from orbit.


It's the only way to be sure.

I have an ULTRA pro-Penn State alumnus here in the office. He wears various forms of apparel related to the sports programs several times a week to 'show support' (he graduated with a "degree" in physical fitness and had golfed with Sandusky). He worships JoePa like his own grandpappy. He has little signs he printed out and put on his office walls which say "We are...Penn State" etc etc...

He has FINALLY conceded that Sandusky was a pervert, but stresses that ALL OTHER personnel are blameless and that anyone trying to go after the university is "a goddam witch hunt".

I want to see his head hanging in shame. I don't even care about the whole Penn State thing really, this is just personal. After months and MONTHS of his "We are.." bullshiat and defense of "the program" at EVERY SINGLE company meeting - I want to see him faced with the sickening reality at last.

This article shows a crack in the dam starting to form...
2012-07-02 10:17:37 AM
2 votes:
Humane to Sandusky, but not to his victims. Interesting choice there Penn State.
2012-07-02 09:34:28 AM
2 votes:
Allow me to mash-up the arguments against prosecuting Penn State into one concise, if inane, post. These are actual sentiments put forth elsewhere...

'Puh-LEEZE! Look, there are some things we have to get straight here:

1) It is UNFAIR to punish the football players, Penn State students, and most of all the sweet, innocent fans by shuttering PSU football! When the games begin this Fall the HEALING will begin.

2) This just proves that it was NOT Joe Paterno's fault that Sandusky got away with this for so long. These guys with the emails were his superiors! What, do you think Paterno was some sort of omnipotent being on campus? It's not like they erected a statue of him to worship like a false idol!

3) Stop pushing this. It all should end with Sandusky's conviction. He was the sole person at fault here. It's just out and out MCCARTHYISM and a WITCH-HUNT! I love my BIG TIME COLLEGE FOOTBALL!!!'

*begins sobbing and slowly masturbating to the Big Ten schedule*
2012-07-02 09:32:27 AM
2 votes:
I have to start to wonder if Joe Pa was doing some underage raping himself. sounds like he basically talked them out of turning Sandusky in to the police.

May you burn in hell forever, Joe Pa..Jerry will join you soon.
2012-07-02 09:27:19 AM
2 votes:

UNC_Samurai: I have to believe Paterno knew exactly what he was doing.


Paterno was used to giving the punishment to his players. Everywhere from cleaning the stadium after games, shoveling the stadium when it snowed. That kind of punishment.

What these emails show is that the executives of a major US college knew about child abuse, and when confronted with it they decided to ask a lower ranking employee. If your boss came in and asked you how you think he should do his job what are you going to tell him? More than likely it would end with the phrase, "Hey, but you're the boss. Do what you think is best.".
2012-07-02 09:21:18 AM
2 votes:
When Penn State has paid out on all the lawsuits sure to follow, will they be reduced to merely a Ju-Co or all the way to a trade school?

You deserve every farking thing you get Penn State for your 'humane approach' to handling a situation that left Tickle Monster in a position to rape four more kids using your school as part of the web that helped make it happen. No better than the catholic church.
2012-07-02 09:05:46 AM
2 votes:
If they don't shutter their football program for at least 5 years, I will.....continue not caring about college football, I guess.
2012-07-02 08:59:37 AM
2 votes:
If any of that turns out to be true, then Penn State has a very serious problem.
2012-07-03 12:46:02 AM
1 votes:

AmberDempsey: Meatschool: Count me as one of the minority then.. I'm an alumnus and while I figured Schulze, Curley, and Spanier were dirty, I thought JoePa had just made a grave error in his moral judgement. If this article is reporting the emails correctly and this stuff turns out to be true, then fark Joe too. I hope these bastards burn. I'm not one of these freaky Central PA types that worship the school, but I always felt a fair amount of pride about it. Now... the actions (or inaction) of these jackasses has brought down a great institution, and then even worse, allowed that infected asswhisker Sandusky to continue raping little boys...

It just disgusts me to think that I lived on that campus at the time this was all taking place. Something about Spanier at the time always seemed a little sketchy... I guess now I know why.

Alum here too ('03) and I agree with this 100%. What a disgrace.


Alum here as well ('09), I hope we recover from this scandal, at least I was off-campus.
2012-07-03 12:25:10 AM
1 votes:

Meatschool: Count me as one of the minority then.. I'm an alumnus and while I figured Schulze, Curley, and Spanier were dirty, I thought JoePa had just made a grave error in his moral judgement. If this article is reporting the emails correctly and this stuff turns out to be true, then fark Joe too. I hope these bastards burn. I'm not one of these freaky Central PA types that worship the school, but I always felt a fair amount of pride about it. Now... the actions (or inaction) of these jackasses has brought down a great institution, and then even worse, allowed that infected asswhisker Sandusky to continue raping little boys...

It just disgusts me to think that I lived on that campus at the time this was all taking place. Something about Spanier at the time always seemed a little sketchy... I guess now I know why.


Alum here too ('03) and I agree with this 100%. What a disgrace.
2012-07-02 10:18:25 PM
1 votes:
I bet all of the Miami players that walked out of the banquet before the Fiesta Bowl are pretty happy that they didn't have to eat dinner in the same room as Sandusky and Paterno.
2012-07-02 10:00:38 PM
1 votes:

SharkTrager: WTF Indeed: MugzyBrown: Nobody was Paterno's boss.

What people think Paterno was at PSU:

"He ran the day-to-day operations of the college. He had no equal, and was less a coach and more a middle eastern dictator."

What Paterno actually was at PSU:

"An old guy who made speeches at pep rallies, stood on the sidelines, and traveled around Pennsylvania recruiting players."

So you're OK with vacating his credit for all the wins after 1998 and letting Bowden have the record.

If all he was was a recruiter he doesn't deserve credit for those wins. Those are for the head coach, not the head booster.


And considering he was actively keeping the university from properly investigating criminal incidents involving his players as recently as 2007, the idea that he was anything more than a figure head is deeply flawed.
2012-07-02 08:32:59 PM
1 votes:

rjakobi: Aarontology: They need to shut down the entire football program indefinitely.

Give the guys already on the team who have athletic scholarships the option to continue their education at Penn State for free, or help them find another university to play for.

Two things.

First, if the NCAA didn't think it proper to shut down Miami's football program despite rogue boosters and hookers and spoiling their college athletes with favors, what makes you think they're gonna shut down Penn State with their coach having a boy service on the side unaffiliated with the football program?

Second, were you molested by football players in high school?


Your comparing raping boys to hookers? What happened, did your wife start working the streets? Nevermind, I saw her throat deep behind a garbage bin...sorry to wake up that demon!
2012-07-02 07:52:28 PM
1 votes:
In case you were wondering, here's the Pedobear Tour schedule for 2012:
09/08/12 at Virginia
09/29/12 at Illinois
10/20/12 at Iowa
11/03/12 at Purdue
11/10/12 at Nebraska
2012-07-02 07:43:43 PM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: Yanks_RSJ: That was all Paterno.

Let's look at this logically. If you've been with a company for 60 years and are beloved by everyone, and the President of the company comes to you one day and says. "One of the employees that reports to you has been stealing money from the company for years and it will hurt us publicly when this comes out. What do you think we should do?" Now you know that this looks terrible for you, since it's your section and this person has been working with you for years and you have personal relationship with this person. So you say, "Yes, something should be done, but please be as kind as you can to him." So the President of the company, after listening to you decides he'll just fire the guy rather than press charges and hurt the company."

Now ten years later, the books are wrong and the company is in trouble. The President says that you are to blame for this because everyone liked you and they didn't want to damage your image. So are the company's problems your fault for being beloved, or the President's fault for not doing his job and reporting the crime?


A) This is a terrible analogy, but that has been addressed by others so I will not elaborate.
B) Your apologetics for the deceased pedophile enabler make me physically ill. Your beloved JoePa's legacy is one of pure moral bankruptcy, and if you fail to see that it suggests that you are no better than he was. Penn State is hated these days, and not because of Sandusky. It is hated because the student body rioted in defense of a pedophile coverup and because people like you continue to defend it. That might not be the way you look at it, but from here in the real world it's pretty clear that that is what you are doing. You want people to change their minds and decide that Penn State is great after all? Step one is getting back in touch with reality. Sometimes your heroes fail you, and sometimes they fail so miserably that the only decent and honorable thing to do is to reject them utterly. Some moral failures are so enormous that there is no getting over them, and everything else you may accomplish is as nothing in their shadow. "You fark one goat..."
2012-07-02 06:40:49 PM
1 votes:

Passive Aggressive Larry: As a Big Ten school alum (Purdue), I'd like to see Penn State completely shut down their football program voluntarily, or get the hell out of the conference. I know that athletics has nothing to do with the rest of the University, which is why I don't want to punish the academic side for the crimes of a few assholes who thought money and winning was more important than justice. They can keep the other sports, just not football.


I want them out of the Big Ten completely. The main reason they were invited in was football, and the main reason for football was Paterno and Sandusky. Since all this was built on fraud and crime, I say kick them out and vacate all their conference wins.

Some sins are unforgivable. Enabling child rape is one of those, its like you murdered the victim then let him live. Rape is all about power over the victim, right? Remove all power of the rotten, criminal-enabling culture of Penn State football forever.
2012-07-02 06:31:50 PM
1 votes:

drivingsouth: There were reports for years that Second Mile pimped out kids to big PSU donors. Can't wait till that hits the fan too,


A couple of people were searching for that last major thread. Mark Madden was the one who brought it up as a big rumor (he'd mentioned the Sandusky rumors in advance). That would definitely be a huge conspiracy if you look at the names of those involved with 2nd Mile
2012-07-02 06:30:20 PM
1 votes:
There were reports for years that Second Mile pimped out kids to big PSU donors. Can't wait till that hits the fan too,
2012-07-02 05:48:54 PM
1 votes:

consider this: Has a team ever been kicked out of a conference? That's what the Big 10 should be considering right now.


The Big East kicked out Temple. Then begged them to come back.
2012-07-02 05:46:39 PM
1 votes:
Pray for the victims!!!

/Seriously though, I hope they are able to find peace in their lives.
2012-07-02 05:31:42 PM
1 votes:

Derwood: Thus the only logical thing to do is punish all the people who had nothing to do with any of this. If you shut down the school, erase the football program and burn down the stadium, all of the victims will become un-raped


Well, then, fark. Why punish any college sports program for anything? Ever? College athletes make the perfect human shields! 'No! Don't punish that corrupt-to-the-core football program! You'll hit the kids! Why are you in favor of hurting kids! YOU MONSTER!'

When SMU got the death penalty, every student on the roster at the time was allowed to immediately transfer to any other college that would have them without having to so much as sit out a season. (And colleges would have them. Many of them were waiting out in the parking lot right after the death-penalty announcement was made.) I'd have to assume a Penn State death penalty would include the same provision.
2012-07-02 04:54:53 PM
1 votes:

jekostas: kdawg7736:
Call me stupid if you want, but I don't trust a whole lot from major media outlets, like CNN, since they don't even show half the story most of the time.

The e-mails were released by Penn state and have already been widely reported on many different sites, and the authenticity of said e-mails has been established.

So yes, you're stupid.


Just wondering, do you have a college degree?
2012-07-02 03:28:42 PM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: Yanks_RSJ: That was all Paterno.

Let's look at this logically. If you've been with a company for 60 years and are beloved by everyone, and the President of the company comes to you one day and says. "One of the employees that reports to you has been stealing money from the company for years and it will hurt us publicly when this comes out. What do you think we should do?" Now you know that this looks terrible for you, since it's your section and this person has been working with you for years and you have personal relationship with this person. So you say, "Yes, something should be done, but please be as kind as you can to him." So the President of the company, after listening to you decides he'll just fire the guy rather than press charges and hurt the company."

Now ten years later, the books are wrong and the company is in trouble. The President says that you are to blame for this because everyone liked you and they didn't want to damage your image. So are the company's problems your fault for being beloved, or the President's fault for not doing his job and reporting the crime?


Are....are you seriously comparing embezzlement to child rape?!
2012-07-02 02:05:07 PM
1 votes:

ongbok: Derwood: mentallo69: How can the NCAA not give Penn State the Death Penalty. Not only is this disgusting, these are crimes over children. A institute of Higher learning should have know to do the right thing here and now they deserve what they get.

Because the NCAA only has jurisdiction over athletic programs, not entire universities. They can't punish a school over a non-football related scandal, even if football coaches were involved.

Yes they can. First of all just from what you said the football coaches were involved and it was a football related scandal since Sandusky used his access to the football team as a means to molest boys. Secondly the school covered up the molestation to not only protect the reputation of the school, but also the money making machine that the football program was, and it appears that the head football coach was involved in the cover up. So this is all football related and it can be seen as the school didn't have institutional control over the football team, it let what was best for the football team dictate what to do and chose to protect football over victims, and that is key in a decision to hand out the death penalty. But I doubt that they will go through with it.


NCAA infractions involving the football team, there is a big difference there, so they can't get the death penalty and I don't think the NCAA has any plan on killing their team.
2012-07-02 01:50:01 PM
1 votes:

Killer Cars: mentallo69: How can the NCAA not give Penn State the Death Penalty.

I wouldn't really look to the NCAA to do the "right" thing, although I'll admit I'm not sure I'd personally vouch for it in this case.

My mind could definitely change though. Aside from the sheer disgusting nature of this, depending on how much comes to the light, both legally and just from a PR perspective, simply allowing the football team to exist as normal might present a serious security risk for the players and personnel. Again, depending on the depth of more bad sh*t that may or may not come to light, I can't fathom any other Big Ten school when PSU goes on the road not having their own special "welcome" for the Nittany Lions.

The death penalty might literally save a lot of grief assuming the worst.


We can always spot those that have no clue about how college football works, this is internal with nothing directly related to the actual team or players.
2012-07-02 01:47:09 PM
1 votes:

kdawg7736: about Joe Paterno, he is dead, it is easy to throw him under the bus since he can't defend himself. So we can't accurately judge him.


a lot of people are dead. yet we can accurately judge their actions (or inactions) during their lifetimes. it's not that difficult to do.
2012-07-02 01:42:53 PM
1 votes:

IlGreven: Again, this cover-up truly only involved the AD and the VP and President of the University as a whole. So why aren't you calling for a total shutdown of Penn State University, or even a total shutdown of PSU athletics, but only its football program?


actually it directly involved the head coach of the football team protecting his long time assistant and the reputation of his team by covering up the rape of children. the team had too much power, the death penalty will help lessen that power. that is a good thing.
2012-07-02 01:42:51 PM
1 votes:
Well I am not rushing to judgment just yet. The Freeh report will be released by the end of the month which will give more details.

Call me stupid if you want, but I don't trust a whole lot from major media outlets, like CNN, since they don't even show half the story most of the time.

The perjury trials will begin soon and we will find out more then.

And one more thing....about Joe Paterno, he is dead, it is easy to throw him under the bus since he can't defend himself. So we can't accurately judge him.
2012-07-02 01:39:37 PM
1 votes:
let's just say that no one was more respected or important than JoePa. That doesn't mean for one second that the administrations judgement and moral compasses pointed directly at him. Although i'm sure they valued his opinion, and that he was a god amongst men at that school, common sense, federal law, and morality should have been the greatest power. we're not talking about drug possession, dui, theft, etc. We're talking about rape. That is not something that is to be handled internally with a stern talking to. The administrators should have gone to the police the second they found out. That is a crime that doesn't get swept under the rug. Now they look so much worse for thinking they were doing the right thing for the school. Instead of protecting it, they damned it.
2012-07-02 01:16:31 PM
1 votes:
How can the NCAA not give Penn State the Death Penalty. Not only is this disgusting, these are crimes over children. A institute of Higher learning should have know to do the right thing here and now they deserve what they get.
2012-07-02 12:48:10 PM
1 votes:
Penn State might as well just shut down now. The civil suits are going to destroy them anyway. I can't believe the NCAA won't shut down their football program. What's the point of pretending anyone wants to be associated with the Cathoilc Church of higher education?
2012-07-02 12:44:28 PM
1 votes:

ongbok: I can't remember what school it was but shortly after the Sandusky news broke there was another story about a prof of either psychology or early childhood development, who was an authority in the field, who had been molesting kids for decades but the school didn't do anything about it.


i think that was penn state as well...

/seriously
2012-07-02 12:36:04 PM
1 votes:
If those e-mails are legit then Penn state is farked up beyond all recognition.

On top on that with out Paterno and with the recent scandals their football recruiting is going to be a night mare for some time.
2012-07-02 12:32:37 PM
1 votes:

Killer Cars: steamingpile: I wouldn't have let it go, fark that kind of thinking, I love UGA and their program but if it were to come out they did something remotely this bad they would be dead to me.

Same with me and my alma mater, but apparently you and I "just don't get it" and are simply lesser human beings for not drinking the Kool-Aid.

/That, or alternatively, I spin some tale how "it's different at PSU.."


Count me in. I just don't get this insane hero worship that PSU alums are afflicted with. It's just a damn school for christ sake.
2012-07-02 12:17:05 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: ongbok: Magorn: Weaver95: If any of that turns out to be true, then Penn State has a very serious problem.

The most important of which is that somehow a FOOTBALL Coach money managed to exert a degree of control over a major US university, that is usually only seen in doomsday religious cults.

Honest to holy God, How completely warped does your moral compass have to be that when you hear an eyewitness allegation of one of your employees RAPING a child (and you know he runs several charities that give him access to children) your first impulse is NOT to run screaming to the cops, but instead to check it out with the football coach, and let him convince you that covering the whole thing up is the "humane" thing to do?

This didn't even have to be a sports program. It could have happened if they had a world renowned physics department that brought in millions of dollars every year in grant money and they had a researcher that was the face of modern physics. The fear of losing money and reputation brought this on, not the need to protect a football team.

You know, that makes some logical sense, but I don't think it's ultimately true. I think if Penn State had a Physics prof who was Stephen Hawkings and the Second coming of Albert Einstien, combined, There would not be a bronze statue of him on campus, especially not while he was still alive. And no matter HOW much grant money he oversaw, he'd be out of his ass if someone even accused him of half of what Sandusky did; and nary a single student would riot in protest.

No, Football, a game, was clearly King at Penn State and as the High Priest of the football program, Paterno exert influence even way beyond his program's economic importance to the U


I will agree with you that a great prof wouldn't have any public recognition in his or her lifetime like Paterno or Sandusky did, face it the only people who would get recognition like that are athletes and entertainers, but if this guy was bringing in loads of grant money, government research projects and recognition in the field, they would cover it up just like they did with Sandusky.

I can't remember what school it was but shortly after the Sandusky news broke there was another story about a prof of either psychology or early childhood development, who was an authority in the field, who had been molesting kids for decades but the school didn't do anything about it.
2012-07-02 12:14:34 PM
1 votes:

RichieLaw: bubbaprog: cettin: I am an alumnus and I say they can all burn in hell, throw the book at every single one of them.

You're in the minority. Most Penn State fans are in denial, claiming CNN is making everything up and that Paterno is completely innocent.

This. I mentioned some of this to a Penn State fan yesterday and she about ripped my head off. She said that this was akin to someone talking about your grandfather like a criminal. As it was my gf's birthday and this was one of her best friends I let it lie, but all I wanted to say was, "My grandfather never enabled child rape."


I wouldn't have let it go, fark that kind of thinking, I love UGA and their program but if it were to come out they did something remotely this bad they would be dead to me.
2012-07-02 12:13:37 PM
1 votes:
Too late. Penn State is already becoming synonymous with Child Rapists/Child Rapist Enablers. Congratulations on overshadowing the Catholic Church in that regard, guys.

/your fans are animals too
2012-07-02 12:07:34 PM
1 votes:

steamingpile: I hope all those saying mcqueary was a scumbag will now concentrate on real enemy, which were his higher ups and you can bet they shut him up by threatening him.


nah, the fans are still looking for a scapegoat. Remember - Saint Joe can't be blamed for any of this. it's someone ELSEs fault, not Saint Joe.
2012-07-02 11:42:37 AM
1 votes:
At least we know that Paterno is still untainted by this whole thing. There's no evidence whatsoever to show that he covered anything up. Right?

In an alleged e-mail dated February 26, 2001, Schultz writes to Curley that he assumes Curley's "got the ball" about a three-part plan to "talk with the subject asap regarding the future appropriate use of the University facility," ... "contacting the chair of the charitable organization" and "contacting the Department of Welfare," according to a source with knowledge of the case.

(The "subject" is Sandusky and his Second Mile charity is the "charitable organization," according to a source with knowledge of the e-mails. Pennsylvania law requires suspected child abuse be reported to outside authorities, including the state's child welfare agencies).

But then, something changes.


The next evening, February 27, Curley allegedly writes to Spanier; Schultz, who's out of the office for two weeks, is copied.

Curley refers to a meeting scheduled that day with Spanier and indicates they apparently discussed the Sandusky incident two days earlier.

Curley indicates he no longer wants to contact child welfare authorities just yet. He refers to a conversation the day before with Paterno. It's not known what Paterno may have said to Curley.

Curley allegedly writes: "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps."


Oh.

Never mind.

/melt down the statue
2012-07-02 11:38:17 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: If any of that turns out to be true, then Penn State has a very serious problem.


Well it was reported by CNN so...
2012-07-02 11:37:28 AM
1 votes:

rjakobi: First, if the NCAA didn't think it proper to shut down Miami's football program despite rogue boosters and hookers and spoiling their college athletes with favors, what makes you think they're gonna shut down Penn State with their coach having a boy service on the side unaffiliated with the football program?


They lied and covered it up to protect the football program and by extension, the university. Because Sandusky was so important to the program, they allowed him to go about raping children.

Destroy it.
2012-07-02 11:32:45 AM
1 votes:
I FARKING TOLD YOU IT WAS A COVER UP! to quote myself from last november (ok, so i got the year wrong, but still):

in 1998 the police were called by the parent of a boy. this started an investigation. which started the need for the cover-up. sandusky plays the "oop, my bad. it was a mistake. i won't do it again" card. joepa tell the police to "take it easy, this is my national title winning defensive coordinator, i know the man, this has to be a mistake, we'll handle this." however, joepa is a little disturbed by the whole incident. i mean, he was showering with a boy, what the fark is that shiat. joepa realizes that he can't let sandusky became the next head coach of penn state. he sits him down and says "look you farked up. it's over, but just retire and be cool. no more fark ups too." sandusky fearful of being exposed takes the deal. of course being a predator sandusky can't stop. now just like when a booster pays a recruit/player and thinks he owns them, but in reality the recruit/player has the upper hand since exposing the illicit deal would bring down the booster, that's the situation joepa and the ad found themselves in. they thought they were helping a friend, but once sandusky raped again they realized that if the truth about 1998 came out it would destroy them and the program as well as sandusky. because they would have allow a predator to go free and additional boys to become victims. then into the shower walks mcqueary...and a new cover-up partner is needed. unfortunately when a new investigation initiated by a high school that did the right think and called the cops started mcqueary didn't keep up the lie. and that's what actually happened
2012-07-02 11:26:49 AM
1 votes:
If I'm a current student, I'd be transferring out in a heartbeat. I'd probably go to Ann Arbor out of spite.
2012-07-02 11:23:36 AM
1 votes:

Gosling: Orgasmatron138: I would like to think that anyone confronted with this would go above and beyond their minimum legal requirements to stop what is perhaps the worst crime that can possibly be committed.

Murder? You mean murder, right?


I consider rape as a form of torture, and I think I'd rather be killed than tortured. That may be a matter of preference, though.
2012-07-02 11:22:27 AM
1 votes:

Gosling: Orgasmatron138: I would like to think that anyone confronted with this would go above and beyond their minimum legal requirements to stop what is perhaps the worst crime that can possibly be committed.

Murder? You mean murder, right?


Its true, Sandusky did not murder anyone.

With Penn State how it is, I wonder if anyone would have reported it if he had.
2012-07-02 11:20:41 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: President of the college: "Hey guys, so we got this problem with a coach, and it's pretty bad. What should we do?"

Others: "This could look bad for us. Lets go ask Joe what we should do."

Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"

President of the college: "Okay, lets just let this go and hope nothing comes of it."

Others: "Sounds like a plan."


5 posts to get to a JoPa apologist. Can't believe it took that long
2012-07-02 11:15:21 AM
1 votes:

JohnBigBootay: They got the guy who farked the children and I don't care two shiats about penn state football so now when the news stories come on about it I hear them in the voice that charlie brown's teacher had on the tv specials.

/NEXT!


The didn't get the guys who covered it up. Nor the culture that enabled all that to occur. Penn State apologists are still convinced Joe Paterno was innocent and their university was the victim of a single pervert. Not, that the evidence is showing, that this pervert had much help from many people to go on raping boys.

The entire town defending these scumbags needs to be exposed. In a town that size, plenty of people had to have heard the rumors, or seen evidence of the crimes, or looked the other way like McQuery was told to do (and then did, because you know, Penn State Football is so much more important than reporting a felony rape committed on campus to the police. Career killer, that. Better to just tell Joe instead)

The entire culture at Penn State is involved; that is the president, the assistant, and the now-deceased head coach. The wife of the assistant, the one who was IN THE HOUSE WHERE ONE OF THE RAPES OCCURRED yet did nothing and continued to cover up for her husband for years.
2012-07-02 11:13:38 AM
1 votes:

Generation_D:
For starters, "Lack of institutional control" is a big rule in the NCAA. Schools have been death penaltied before for stuff like paying players or not reporting income properly.

Which to me pales in comparison to the head coach and university president strategizing how not to report repeated cases of child rape occurring by the assistant coach on campus using campus facilities.


I agree. While I REALLY hope they get the death penalty for this, I don't really expect it. The NCAA isn't an organization that I hold in very high regards when it comes down to punishing "high profile" programs. I personally feel their response will be something like "Well, the law handled this just fine so we won't do anything else", which is total BS
2012-07-02 11:10:59 AM
1 votes:
They got the guy who farked the children and I don't care two shiats about penn state football so now when the news stories come on about it I hear them in the voice that charlie brown's teacher had on the tv specials.

/NEXT!
2012-07-02 11:06:41 AM
1 votes:

Magorn: Weaver95: If any of that turns out to be true, then Penn State has a very serious problem.

The most important of which is that somehow a FOOTBALL Coach money managed to exert a degree of control over a major US university, that is usually only seen in doomsday religious cults.

Honest to holy God, How completely warped does your moral compass have to be that when you hear an eyewitness allegation of one of your employees RAPING a child (and you know he runs several charities that give him access to children) your first impulse is NOT to run screaming to the cops, but instead to check it out with the football coach, and let him convince you that covering the whole thing up is the "humane" thing to do?


This didn't even have to be a sports program. It could have happened if they had a world renowned physics department that brought in millions of dollars every year in grant money and they had a researcher that was the face of modern physics. The fear of losing money and reputation brought this on, not the need to protect a football team.
2012-07-02 10:59:16 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: If any of that turns out to be true, then Penn State has a very serious problem.


The most important of which is that somehow a FOOTBALL Coach managed to exert a degree of control over a major US university, that is usually only seen in doomsday religious cults.

Honest to holy God, How completely warped does your moral compass have to be that when you hear an eyewitness allegation of one of your employees RAPING a child (and you know he runs several charities that give him access to children) your first impulse is NOT to run screaming to the cops, but instead to check it out with the football coach, and let him convince you that covering the whole thing up is the "humane" thing to do?
2012-07-02 10:49:22 AM
1 votes:

ongbok: Just wait until Sandusky starts giving up names of people and their involvement in the coverup or other people who enjoyed little boys with him in exchange for getting sentenced to a minimum security jail.


if there's a benevolent God then every single person involved in covering up this string of child rapes will be named and punished.

the amount of organized evil involved in this sad story is mind-blowing.
2012-07-02 10:45:37 AM
1 votes:

bubbaprog: cettin: I am an alumnus and I say they can all burn in hell, throw the book at every single one of them.

You're in the minority. Most Penn State fans are in denial, claiming CNN is making everything up and that Paterno is completely innocent.


That message board is a prime example of why adults shouldn't have heroes.
2012-07-02 10:31:28 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: President of the college: "Hey guys, so we got this problem with a coach, and it's pretty bad. What should we do?"

Others: "This could look bad for us. Lets go ask Joe what we should do."

Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"

President of the college: "Okay, lets just let this go and hope nothing comes of it."

Others: "Sounds like a plan."


Not really how it happened. What the newly uncovered emails are suggesting is that the school officials had decided to go to the authorities, but were convinced not to by JoePa.

The bigger story is that JoePa and other school officials had business deals associated with Second Mile; these deal are very favorable because of the tax angles involved with working with a charitable organization.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/05/120511-news-paterno-business- 1 -5/

Everyone stood to lose a shiat ton of money if Second Mile were to be shut down, which is exactly what happened once the scandal went public. Also, the football program and school would be disgraced. You can see the temptation to cover the whole thing up.

My problem with the public perception is that the JoePa apologists are trying to have it both ways. On one hand, they want to deify JoePa as a saint who went beyond coaching football to become a shaper and molder of young men. On the other hand, when it comes to the moral obligation of following up on what he damn well knew was happening, apologists want to claim that JoePa was "just a football coach."

I would like to think that anyone confronted with this would go above and beyond their minimum legal requirements to stop what is perhaps the worst crime that can possibly be committed.

JoePa's own testimony to the grand jury is enough to convince me that he was a dirtbag, too. His statue should be torn down.
2012-07-02 10:22:21 AM
1 votes:

oryx: Humane to Sandusky, but not to his victims. Interesting choice there Penn State.


Even if Penn State manages to avoid criminal repercussions for their actions, they'll probably face civil suits over this. Not to mention that there's now a very real danger of people getting the impression that the Penn State football program is run by amoral schmucks who stood by and let little boys get raped by a senior official within their organization.
2012-07-02 10:17:14 AM
1 votes:

Krustofsky: It's hard to know if the NCAA will take any action or not, but this seems to reflect the "lack of institutional control" that the NCAA likes to use when they nail an athletic program with penalties.


Seems like the best bet, given that you can't punish the dead and you can't go back to the 90s and punish the program while this was going on, either. Shut the football program down until about 2018 to let an entire college 'generation' flush through and give every school around the country notice that if you don't clean up after yourself eventually the NCAA will come get you.
2012-07-02 10:14:55 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: Yanks_RSJ: There was no higher authority than Joe Paterno. None. Zero.

I'm pretty sure legally there was someone with higher authority. In fact, I'm know there a lot of people with higher authority at PSU than Paterno. You want to get angry because it's easier to blame one man rather than several up-until-this story nameless men who ran a university as stewards. Blame is easier when you have singular focus. "Bob did X wrong, shame on Bob." It's much harder to personally feel justice if it's "Larry, Tom, Sam, and Paul all hid Bob's X wrong." Bob committed a crime. Larry, Tom, Sam, and Paul covered it up. What you are doing here is blaming Paterno for Spanner and his lot not doing their job. Would you want to be blamed for your boss not doing their job? And before you scream how Paterno was the top authority, he wasn't. He was the football coach, not the President, vice-president, or dean.


I've gotta admit, even if you're blatantly ignoring facts, this is one very impassioned defense of Paterno. It's without basis, but it's impassioned.

Paterno had his hand in this as much as anyone. To deny that and to say "he was just a football coach" is ridiculous.
2012-07-02 10:14:47 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: What you are doing here is blaming Paterno for Spanner and his lot not doing their job. Would you want to be blamed for your boss not doing their job? And before you scream how Paterno was the top authority, he wasn't. He was the football coach, not the President, vice-president, or dean.


We can blame all of them for failing to do their job. The difference, of course, is you are absolving Paterno of wrong-doing by saying that his bosses did not do their job. These emails (and other evidence of Paterno's control) indicate that Paterno had enough pull to steer investigations and control penalties directed at his football team.

It is, actually, possible to condemn or admonish all of them. However, there are several people who feel the need to absolve the football coach because, come on, he did all he could've done.
2012-07-02 10:10:51 AM
1 votes:
Death penalty time.
2012-07-02 10:10:06 AM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: Yeah, that's done through the civil courts... which will happen in this case


True, and what we're discussing are civil penalties enforced by the NCAA - an organization with voluntary membership. It the NCAA cares at all about its reputation, then it will enforce severe penalties of its own.
2012-07-02 10:10:05 AM
1 votes:
Deadspin had a nice summation on this entire mess...

Leaked Penn State Emails Suggest Joe Paterno Protected Jerry Sandusky

Curley, Schultz, Spanier and Paterno had always maintained they acted appropriately, alerted the proper officials and did what they were supposed to do. One day after the three-pronged approach to Sandusky was discussed, Tim Curley emailed the group indicating a desire to change course. It was a decision he made after speaking with Joe Paterno.

Curley indicates he no longer wants to contact child welfare authorities just yet. He refers to a conversation the day before with Paterno. It's not known what Paterno may have said to Curley.

Curley writes: "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps."

The athletic director apparently preferred to keep the situation an internal affair and talk things over with Sandusky instead of notifying the state's child welfare agency to investigate Sandusky's suspicious activity.

"I am having trouble with going to everyone, but the person involved," Curley allegedly continues.

It's true, it is not known what Joe Paterno might have said to Curley. But, we can probably hazard a guess, can't we? These emails should put to rest any lingering questions people may have about Joe Paterno's role at Penn State. High ranking officials were in the middle of investigating a serious and disgusting set of allegations against a former employee, and devising a plan of action therefor. In walks Joe Paterno, who says something (granted, we don't know what) and that plan morphs from alerting child welfare officials to handling the matter in-house. Joe Paterno says "jump," university officials say "how high?"
2012-07-02 10:09:40 AM
1 votes:
He was just a little old guy used as a figurehead. He had no real power within the school administration.

I love that the deflection and defense of Paterno continues and, at every turn, it comes back to him as being involved in brushing it under the rug.
2012-07-02 10:05:32 AM
1 votes:

bubbaprog: cettin: I am an alumnus and I say they can all burn in hell, throw the book at every single one of them.

You're in the minority. Most Penn State fans are in denial, claiming CNN is making everything up and that Paterno is completely innocent.


If you're still a Penn State fan after all this, you almost have to be in denial....

/ex-Penn State fan
2012-07-02 10:04:13 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: What people think Paterno was at PSU:

"He ran the day-to-day operations of the college. He had no equal, and was less a coach and more a middle eastern dictator."

What Paterno actually was at PSU:

"An old guy who made speeches at pep rallies, stood on the sidelines, and traveled around Pennsylvania recruiting players."


In 2004, the head of the Board of Trustees and the university president twice went to Paterno's house to get him to resign. He refused. But, no, he was just a regular football coach.
2012-07-02 10:03:24 AM
1 votes:
The administrators involved in this mess will be given up by the University as none of them are current employees. Expect some jail time from at least one person involved to show that due diligence was served.

The NCAA will not act as this is a prestigious school and their excuse will be that the football program was not directly involved and the school did not gain any competitive advantage, therefore no serious sanctions will be levied.

The civil suits will all be settled out of court for very large sums of cash.

The University will make a statement to the effect of:

"We all appreciate the seriousness of what happened under the previous administration. While tragic, the incidents in question involved a relatively few well meaning individuals who ultimately failed to act in a manner consistent with our values. This in no way is reflective of the University as a whole and we will strive to prove ourselves each day to be leaders in our society.

Please respect the victims and family as we all begin the healing process, starting with the creation and funding of a new program designed to both prevent and reach out to victims of sexual abuse. From each student, professor, administrator, alumni, fan, and family member Penn State we say, Thank you."

Now move along citizen, nothing more to see here.
2012-07-02 10:02:21 AM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: There is no need to shut down the football program since pretty much everybody involved is fired, resigned, in jail, or dead.


If a corporation (or any organization) does something illegal, it's not enough to just prosecute the people who did the illegal acts. You also need to penalize the corporation for creating the situation and allowing it to happen. The stockholders suffer even though they had no knowledge of the malfeasance, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. It's important to have real deterrence, otherwise the behavior patterns can continue as long as you have a scapegoat.

Allowing the current players to move on is probably the most equitable outcome for them. Most of them would welcome the opportunity to seek a scholarship with another college without penalty. Lord knows this isn't the program they signed up for.
2012-07-02 10:00:06 AM
1 votes:

Owangotang: Allow me to mash-up the arguments against prosecuting Penn State into one concise, if inane, post. These are actual sentiments put forth elsewhere...

'Puh-LEEZE! Look, there are some things we have to get straight here:

1) It is UNFAIR to punish the football players, Penn State students, and most of all the sweet, innocent fans by shuttering PSU football! When the games begin this Fall the HEALING will begin.

2) This just proves that it was NOT Joe Paterno's fault that Sandusky got away with this for so long. These guys with the emails were his superiors! What, do you think Paterno was some sort of omnipotent being on campus? It's not like they erected a statue of him to worship like a false idol!

3) Stop pushing this. It all should end with Sandusky's conviction. He was the sole person at fault here. It's just out and out MCCARTHYISM and a WITCH-HUNT! I love my BIG TIME COLLEGE FOOTBALL!!!'

*begins sobbing and slowly masturbating to the Big Ten schedule*


You left out my favorite, which I have actually read more than once on PSU boards this weekend:

"How do we know the Joe mentioned in the emails is even JoePa? It could be anyone. Joe is a very common name!"
2012-07-02 09:58:13 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: What Paterno actually was at PSU:

"An old guy who made speeches at pep rallies, stood on the sidelines, and traveled around Pennsylvania recruiting players."


Nobody thinks Joe Pa ran the day to day operations of the school or even the football team, but Joe Pa had enough power in the university to get Graham Spanier or Curley fired if he ever wanted to.
2012-07-02 09:55:50 AM
1 votes:

MugzyBrown: Nobody was Paterno's boss.


What people think Paterno was at PSU:

"He ran the day-to-day operations of the college. He had no equal, and was less a coach and more a middle eastern dictator."

What Paterno actually was at PSU:

"An old guy who made speeches at pep rallies, stood on the sidelines, and traveled around Pennsylvania recruiting players."
2012-07-02 09:48:49 AM
1 votes:

Babwa Wawa: Situation 1 didn't involve any felonies and coverups of those felonies. Situation 2 did. You don't need to be molested by football players in order to advocate shutting down a program involved in the coverup of particularly despicable criminal activity.


There is no need to shut down the football program since pretty much everybody involved is fired, resigned, in jail, or dead.

If the NCAA decided to take away scholarships for 5 years, it'd be odd since the scandal had nothing to do with the football team or its players, but I wouldn't think it was an outrageous idea.
2012-07-02 09:46:42 AM
1 votes:

Yanks_RSJ: That was all Paterno.


Let's look at this logically. If you've been with a company for 60 years and are beloved by everyone, and the President of the company comes to you one day and says. "One of the employees that reports to you has been stealing money from the company for years and it will hurt us publicly when this comes out. What do you think we should do?" Now you know that this looks terrible for you, since it's your section and this person has been working with you for years and you have personal relationship with this person. So you say, "Yes, something should be done, but please be as kind as you can to him." So the President of the company, after listening to you decides he'll just fire the guy rather than press charges and hurt the company."

Now ten years later, the books are wrong and the company is in trouble. The President says that you are to blame for this because everyone liked you and they didn't want to damage your image. So are the company's problems your fault for being beloved, or the President's fault for not doing his job and reporting the crime?
2012-07-02 09:45:32 AM
1 votes:

rjakobi: Two things.

First, if the NCAA didn't think it proper to shut down Miami's football program despite rogue boosters and hookers and spoiling their college athletes with favors, what makes you think they're gonna shut down Penn State with their coach having a boy service on the side unaffiliated with the football program?

Second, were you molested by football players in high school?


Situation 1 didn't involve any felonies and coverups of those felonies. Situation 2 did. You don't need to be molested by football players in order to advocate shutting down a program involved in the coverup of particularly despicable criminal activity.

If you let the players move on to another program or stay on their scholarships, they're inconvenienced, but OK.

Do you really think that the NCAA should do nothing to the program so they can avoid hurting the players? Can you imagine backlash that would occur as a result? It would be far more damaging to players who were locked into playing for Penn State.
2012-07-02 09:41:52 AM
1 votes:

BronyMedic: Apparently the price of ones soul is a winning profitable football team.


FTFY
2012-07-02 09:41:21 AM
1 votes:

rjakobi: Aarontology: They need to shut down the entire football program indefinitely.

Give the guys already on the team who have athletic scholarships the option to continue their education at Penn State for free, or help them find another university to play for.

Two things.

First, if the NCAA didn't think it proper to shut down Miami's football program despite rogue boosters and hookers and spoiling their college athletes with favors, what makes you think they're gonna shut down Penn State with their coach having a boy service on the side unaffiliated with the football program?

Second, were you molested by football players in high school?


One big reason: outside of college football no one gave a damn about Miami's problems. How many people do you know that don't care about college football that have an opinion on this? Everyone does. And that pressure from outside, be it public, legal or political is why the program will (and should rightfully) be shut down.
2012-07-02 09:41:19 AM
1 votes:

srhp29: I have to start to wonder if Joe Pa was doing some underage raping himself. sounds like he basically talked them out of turning Sandusky in to the police.

May you burn in hell forever, Joe Pa..Jerry will join you soon.


I doubt that. He and the others decided to sweep this under the rug because they were afraid that it would destroy Paterno's reputation and the school's reputation. And the thing is in reality, yes if they would have gone to the police and did what they were supposed to do at first their would have been a shiat storm, some heads may have rolled, but if they handled it correctly the damage could have been limited and it would have left a footnote in school history, but not the shiat storm they are facing now.
2012-07-02 09:38:11 AM
1 votes:
Why are we talking about shutting down the football program? Since the President of the University was in on this cover up, maybe it is the school that should be shut down for a while, which would automatically shut down the football team as well..
2012-07-02 09:35:37 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: If your boss came in and asked you how you think he should do his job what are you going to tell him? More than likely it would end with the phrase, "Hey, but you're the boss. Do what you think is best.".


Nobody was Paterno's boss.

LesserEvil: When does MugzyBrown show up to defend Penn State, child rape, and Paterno?


I've shown up, but I've never defended PSU or Paterno or Sandusky.
2012-07-02 09:35:06 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: President of the college: "Hey guys, so we got this problem with a coach, and it's pretty bad. What should we do?"

Others: "This could look bad for us. Lets go ask Joe what we should do."

Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"

President of the college: "Okay, lets just let this go and hope nothing comes of it."

Others: "Sounds like a plan."


Here we go again...How long have people been saying Joe Pa runs that campus and is the most powerful man on campus. Everyone wants to skirt the blame from him and put it off on the higher ups...WTF? HE WAS THE HIGHER UP, especially in this case.
2012-07-02 09:35:02 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: What these emails show is that the executives of a major US college knew about child abuse, and when confronted with it they decided to ask a lower ranking employee. If your boss came in and asked you how you think he should do his job what are you going to tell him? More than likely it would end with the phrase, "Hey, but you're the boss. Do what you think is best."


Oh, no they didn't. Sandusky was part of the football program. Nobody did anything with anyone associated in the football program without Paterno's OK. People who did got fired.
2012-07-02 09:34:15 AM
1 votes:

Aarontology: They need to shut down the entire football program indefinitely.

Give the guys already on the team who have athletic scholarships the option to continue their education at Penn State for free, or help them find another university to play for.


Two things.

First, if the NCAA didn't think it proper to shut down Miami's football program despite rogue boosters and hookers and spoiling their college athletes with favors, what makes you think they're gonna shut down Penn State with their coach having a boy service on the side unaffiliated with the football program?

Second, were you molested by football players in high school?
2012-07-02 09:22:14 AM
1 votes:
FTFA: "'This is a more humane and upfront way to handle this,' Gary Schultz, who was a university vice president at the time, allegedly wrote."

LOL, he actually used the word "humane." What a heaping bucket of fail.

I'm not sure exactly what needs to happen here, but it needs to be harsh. Is shuttering a football program even practical? How will the University shield itself and/or pay for all the civil suits?

What a gigantic goddamn mess.
2012-07-02 09:16:09 AM
1 votes:
Oops, my second link got eaten. Apparently we can't link to WSJ at all anymore.

Google:

A Discipline Problem
Paterno Fought Penn State Official Over Punishment of Players

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020444340457705207367256 1 402.html
2012-07-02 09:15:54 AM
1 votes:
Nuke it from orbit.
2012-07-02 09:11:48 AM
1 votes:
I love how the Spanier is on record as saying this might make us look bad. If you look at a particular action and say ....if we do this, it might make us look bad....guaranteed at some point in the future IT WILL MAKE YOU LOOK BAD!
2012-07-02 09:08:42 AM
1 votes:
JoePa and Co. were making too much money with 2nd Mile side deals to destroy Sandusky. So they did the humane thing and told him to take it off campus.
2012-07-02 09:06:03 AM
1 votes:
President of the college: "Hey guys, so we got this problem with a coach, and it's pretty bad. What should we do?"

Others: "This could look bad for us. Lets go ask Joe what we should do."

Joe: "Ummm....you guys realize I'm just the football coach and it's your job to take of things like this?"

President of the college: "Okay, lets just let this go and hope nothing comes of it."

Others: "Sounds like a plan."
 
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