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(Spiegel)   'Miss Holocaust Survivor' beauty pageant held in Israel   (spiegel.de ) divider line
    More: Strange, Holocaust, Holocaust survivors, beauty contests, Israeli government, SPIEGEL, umbrella organization  
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7933 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2012 at 1:06 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



114 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-07-02 12:01:57 AM  
Cue the studmen talking about how her knees are too sharp and how they hate tattoos on women.
 
2012-07-02 01:08:57 AM  
And now in the "Most Tasteless Pageant" category, we have...
 
2012-07-02 01:11:21 AM  
Naming it a beauty pageant may have been a poor choice of words. These women deserve to tell their story, a story to which some people are still (forcefully at times) ignorant. However if some of these women want to participate more power to them.
 
2012-07-02 01:12:12 AM  
dude! they should get surviving nazi officers to be on the judges panel.
 
2012-07-02 01:12:47 AM  
how do you say "flogging a dead horse" in hebrew?

in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants.
 
2012-07-02 01:18:47 AM  
They need a sammich!
 
2012-07-02 01:19:02 AM  
mtylerjr.smallbizdepot.com
 
2012-07-02 01:26:20 AM  
wantingout,
how do you say "flogging a dead horse" in hebrew?
in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants.


Give it a few more years, someone will try to do yet another redux of some 70's Shoah guilt exploitation featuring striped prisoner gear.

Forgetting the Sudan, Rwandan, Cambodia, Armenian Genocide, Bosnia, and other events in history I forgot about which might have one headliner film for each event and have been forgotten about.

/To those that survived it, I have the greatest respect for you.
 
2012-07-02 01:28:39 AM  
It was good until the talent contest, when one Holocaust lady showed her skills with ovens.
 
2012-07-02 01:31:58 AM  
i.imgur.com

/Hot
 
2012-07-02 01:32:06 AM  
Did they use their tattoos as their contestant numbers?
 
2012-07-02 01:32:07 AM  
This would have been a much better idea if they'd suspended the "too soon" rule.
 
2012-07-02 01:34:49 AM  
BRB. Tiaras. LOL
 
2012-07-02 01:39:23 AM  
www.nobodygoeshere.com
 
2012-07-02 01:40:40 AM  

wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants.


[summon_you_know_who.jpg]
 
2012-07-02 01:45:36 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Cue the studmen talking about how her knees are too sharp and how they hate tattoos on women.


No need to persecute the studmen, they are in denial.
 
2012-07-02 01:47:36 AM  

Gyrfalcon: And now in the "Most Tasteless Pageant" category, we have...


I'm not a fan of size -1 models.
 
2012-07-02 01:51:33 AM  
"Why use a beauty contest to show that these people survived and that they're brave?" Lili Haber, who also heads an organization that provides assistance to Holocaust survivors, asked AP.

Because they're more than just objects for you to glorify yourself by pitying, they're people. And people, especially women, like to be fussed over by professional fuss-overers and told they're pretty every now and then.
 
2012-07-02 02:01:51 AM  
The contest itself doesn't bother me too much. What does bother me is that they apparently told at least 286 Holocaust survivors that they weren't pretty enough to be allowed to share their stories with an audience.

Should have done a better job putting on the sunscreen when you were in those forced labor camps, ladies!
 
2012-07-02 02:03:55 AM  
Also, why was Kim Jong Il invited?
 
2012-07-02 02:09:44 AM  
too skinny, wouldnt bang
 
2012-07-02 02:27:31 AM  
and after the winner was crowned, the rest were told to hit the showers.
 
2012-07-02 02:39:21 AM  
"It sounds totally macabre to me," Colette Avital, chairwoman of Israel's leading Holocaust survivor's umbrella group, said according to the Associated Press. "I'm in favor of enriching lives, but a one-time pageant masquerading (survivors) with beautiful clothes is not what is going to make their lives more meaningful."

Who was born in 1950, so frankly, can EABOD about telling holocaust survivors what they can or can't do.
 
2012-07-02 02:42:13 AM  
HGGMILF?
 
2012-07-02 02:43:31 AM  
They survived Hitler. They all won.

/My mother's mother lost her cousins to the little paperhanger's camps.
 
2012-07-02 02:56:17 AM  
Here's one I wish had survived. I read her book in the 70's when I was at the age she wrote it, and it still tears me up:
img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com

She'd only be 83 now. But she died as a teenager in a Nazi death camp.

What a waste.
 
2012-07-02 03:32:57 AM  
Such a waste of my cum
 
2012-07-02 04:14:43 AM  
At this age, with their wrinkly skin, I wonder how hard it'd be to get their numbers.
 
2012-07-02 04:30:05 AM  
shouldn't the irony tag have been used here because der spiegel is reporting it?
 
2012-07-02 04:39:55 AM  
The producers of Toddlers & Tiaras are thrilled that the heat's not on them...Happy now,Haifa?
 
2012-07-02 04:41:19 AM  

universebetween: dude! they should get surviving nazi officers to be on the judges panel.


Exactly! The pageant is a false front to lure them in. The Nazi Hunters set this up!
 
2012-07-02 06:00:17 AM  
womensstudiesjmu.wikispaces.com

I was expecting someone more like this.

/ticket please.
 
2012-07-02 06:21:14 AM  
pics or it didn't happen
 
2012-07-02 06:45:17 AM  
A bunch of broads too ugly for the Nazis to rape to death makes for a horrible beauty pageant.

/I only did that because of all the callous and snarky comments.
 
2012-07-02 06:55:58 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Cue the studmen talking about how her knees are too sharp and how they hate tattoos on women.


I lol'ed way too hard at that.
 
2012-07-02 07:18:40 AM  
All that came to my mind was the word chutzpah. And to top it off, they had fun. What a wonderful idea.

// They got the world to notice for 30 seconds. That's all they could have hoped for.
 
2012-07-02 08:34:14 AM  

ansius: [womensstudiesjmu.wikispaces.com image 540x431]

I was expecting someone more like this.

/ticket please.


I thought the same thing.
 
2012-07-02 09:04:19 AM  
if they're not taking the Holocaust seriously anymore, does that mean we can stop too?
 
2012-07-02 09:08:59 AM  

almandot: Did they use their tattoos as their contestant numbers?


Next story will have one of the contestants will be disqualified for having a fake Holocaust tattoo. They realized the truth when her story consisted of the hardship of running out of belgium waffles and german chocolate while living in Switzerland.
 
2012-07-02 09:11:14 AM  
Hope they invited guest judges like this fine woman.
 
2012-07-02 09:18:12 AM  
Holocaust Reminder #45763849. Hitler's evil. We get it.

It still doesn't excuse what Israel does to Palestine, and it never will.
 
2012-07-02 09:18:20 AM  

SoxSweepAgain: Here's one I wish had survived. I read her book in the 70's when I was at the age she wrote it, and it still tears me up:
[img.photobucket.com image 200x254]

[img.photobucket.com image 460x276]

She'd only be 83 now. But she died as a teenager in a Nazi death camp.

What a waste.



Agreed. It's a shame that she couldn't see it coming.


/I'd prefer an aisle seat, please.
 
2012-07-02 09:35:20 AM  
Hot!
 
2012-07-02 09:37:50 AM  
Maybe if the contest was held about 60 years ago this would have been a good idea
 
2012-07-02 09:42:44 AM  

The_Great_Hambino: SoxSweepAgain: Here's one I wish had survived. I read her book in the 70's when I was at the age she wrote it, and it still tears me up:
[img.photobucket.com image 200x254]

[img.photobucket.com image 460x276]

She'd only be 83 now. But she died as a teenager in a Nazi death camp.

What a waste.


Agreed. It's a shame that she couldn't see it coming.


/I'd prefer an aisle seat, please.


Or hear them.

/smoking
 
2012-07-02 09:50:02 AM  

wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants


You do realize that the population in Gaza is growing, so to compare it to the holocaust show either profound ignorance or dishonesty.
 
2012-07-02 10:02:41 AM  
liam76: wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants

You do realize that the population in Gaza is growing, so to compare it to the holocaust show either profound ignorance or dishonesty.


Oh you're right. So the fact the the Israelis treat the Gazans just like the Nazis treated the Jews is ok, because Gazans can keep popping out more kids than than the number of people that the IDF kills. Makes sense!
 
2012-07-02 10:05:04 AM  
What the winner might look like:

3.bp.blogspot.com

// Hot.
 
2012-07-02 10:26:20 AM  

wantingout: liam76: wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants

You do realize that the population in Gaza is growing, so to compare it to the holocaust show either profound ignorance or dishonesty.


Oh you're right. So the fact the the Israelis treat the Gazans just like the Nazis treated the Jews is ok, because Gazans can keep popping out more kids than than the number of people that the IDF kills. Makes sense!


The Israelis have starting gassing Gazans? When did that start?

People that whine about Israelis treating people like the Nazis treated them are truly ignorant. First of all, they are NOT doing that, not even close. Second, do you expect Israelis to be super nice to people and allow them to do as they please because of what the Jews suffered? That is nonsense.

Strangely enough, Israel is more concerned about people treating them badly. Go figure. These people that you want to Israelis to play nice with have a history of killing Israelis and have threatened to kill more.
 
2012-07-02 10:36:18 AM  

chuckufarlie: wantingout: Oh you're right. So the fact the the Israelis treat the Gazans just like the Nazis treated the Jews is ok, because Gazans can keep popping out more kids than than the number of people that the IDF kills. Makes sense!

The Israelis have starting gassing Gazans? When did that start?

People that whine about Israelis treating people like the Nazis treated them are truly ignorant. First of all, they are NOT doing that, not even close. Second, do you expect Israelis to be super nice to people and allow them to do as they please because of what the Jews suffered? That is nonsense.

Strangely enough, Israel is more concerned about people treating them badly. Go figure. These people that you want to Israelis to play nice with have a history of killing Israelis and have threatened to kill more.


I call it "Holocaust Non-Denial Denial." They make up lies about what the Israelis did, because they deeply believe the Holocaust survivors made up the Holocaust, and it's not fair that the Jews get to lie about the Holocaust but they don't get to lie about Israel.

/they get really lulzy when they flip out over the fact that reality itself doesn't bend to their will like it seems to do for Israel
//objective reality becomes a Zionist conspiracy
 
2012-07-02 10:39:22 AM  

wantingout: liam76: wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants

You do realize that the population in Gaza is growing, so to compare it to the holocaust show either profound ignorance or dishonesty.


Oh you're right. So the fact lie that the Israelis treat the Gazans just like the Nazis treated the Jews is ok, because Gazans can keep popping out more kids than than the number of people that the IDF kills. Makes sense!


FTFY

More of your profound ignorance or dishonesty.

If Israel treated Gazans like the Nazi's treated the jews they wouldn't be popping out kids, they would be killed.

The fact is that according to the UN HDI Palestenians, under Israel, did better than many of their arab neighbors.
 
2012-07-02 10:43:07 AM  

SoxSweepAgain: Here's one I wish had survived. I read her book in the 70's when I was at the age she wrote it, and it still tears me up:
[img.photobucket.com image 200x254]

[img.photobucket.com image 460x276]

She'd only be 83 now. But she died as a teenager in a Nazi death camp.

What a waste.


I went to her house a few weeks ago. I was surprised at how big it was. 2 floors, 8ft ceilings, a kitchenette, bedrooms for everyone...apart from the "keep absolutely silent during the day or the Nazis will torture you and everyone you love to death" thingy, it's a better situation than the one I live in now.

// plus they had free Wi-fi
 
2012-07-02 10:56:00 AM  
Oh come on the Jews are just trolling us now. Everybody knows there was no Holocaust, those 6 million people just stole the a Nazi space craft, took it to France and flew off to Alpha Centauri. Now some people could say the Nazis had it coming, considering they stole that ship from a bunch of Grey's on spring break leaving them stranded in Russia.

The Nazis invaded France trying to get that stolen space ship back and invaded Russia to see if those little Grey farkers had anymore ships they could steal. Anyway after the US kicked the Nazis ass they stole all the tech, sending it all to area 54 (area 51 is just a front to keep people looking in the wrong direction), but unfortunately a horrible accident killed all the Greys and we have been left to try and figure out this crap.
 
2012-07-02 11:24:50 AM  

chuckufarlie: The Israelis have starting gassing Gazans? When did that start?


You are aware that the gas chambers were only the "grand finale," right? It took the nazis over a decade to build up to the "final solution." The zionists are still at the "ghetto" stage.
 
2012-07-02 11:46:19 AM  
Ye elders of Israel, come join now with me
And seek out the righteous, where'er they may be-
In desert, on mountain, on land, or on sea-
And bring them to Zion, the pure and the free.
 
2012-07-02 11:51:35 AM  

liam76: wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants

You do realize that the population in Gaza is growing, so to compare it to the holocaust show either profound ignorance or dishonesty.


WFT? Did the Jewish population post-Holocaust fail to grow or something?
 
2012-07-02 12:16:50 PM  

qualtrough: liam76: wantingout: in other news, the Palestinians just held a 'Miss Gaza Survivor' pageant. But sadly the IDF showed up and shot to death all the entrants

You do realize that the population in Gaza is growing, so to compare it to the holocaust show either profound ignorance or dishonesty.

WFT? Did the Jewish population post-Holocaust fail to grow or something?


Not sure how post holocaust is relevent.

Uncle Tractor: You are aware that the gas chambers were only the "grand finale," right? It took the nazis over a decade to build up to the "final solution." The zionists are still at the "ghetto" stage


So when Nazi's put Jews in ghettos do you think they have more access to hospitals and universities then they did previously? Did their life expectancy go up? Infant mortality go down? Literacy go up? Becasue all of those things have happened to the Palestenians since Israel took over, so to make that comparison you must be profoundly ignorant or dishonest.
 
2012-07-02 12:36:36 PM  

Uncle Tractor: chuckufarlie: The Israelis have starting gassing Gazans? When did that start?

You are aware that the gas chambers were only the "grand finale," right? It took the nazis over a decade to build up to the "final solution." The zionists are still at the "ghetto" stage.


crawl back into your hole, idiot.
 
2012-07-02 12:47:31 PM  

liam76: So when Nazi's put Jews in ghettos do you think they have more access to hospitals and universities then they did previously? Did their life expectancy go up? Infant mortality go down? Literacy go up? Becasue all of those things have happened to the Palestenians South African blacks since Israel the Afrikaaners took over, so to make that comparison you must be profoundly ignorant or dishonest.


FTFY
 
2012-07-02 12:59:49 PM  

LordPomposity: liam76: So when Nazi's put Jews in ghettos do you think they have more access to hospitals and universities then they did previously? Did their life expectancy go up? Infant mortality go down? Literacy go up? Becasue all of those things have happened to the Palestenians South African blacks since Israel the Afrikaaners took over, so to make that comparison you must be profoundly ignorant or dishonest.

FTFY


So your point is that South Africa wasn't a Nazi like state either? Not sure how that is relevant.


If you want to compare SA and Israel that is another topic. Off the top of my head the comparison fails Israel has arab muslim citizens who can vote, have equal protection under the law, etc. I am not too familiar with SA history but I have never heard of black south africans electing a govt who has wiping out whites as a stated goal in their charter, I don't recall surrounding countries expeling all their white citizens, etc
 
2012-07-02 12:59:49 PM  
They're all beautiful!
 
2012-07-02 01:02:18 PM  
That's hot!
 
2012-07-02 01:56:21 PM  

liam76: So when Nazi's put Jews in ghettos do you think they have more access to hospitals and universities then they did previously? Did their life expectancy go up? Infant mortality go down? Literacy go up? Becasue all of those things have happened to the Palestenians since Israel took over,


...despite the best efforts of Israel, because isolating people in banthustans surrounded by hostile savages or inflicting an unending siege broken only by sporadic air raids is such a great way to reduce child mortality (etc).

The statistics you're mentioning say far more about the resilience of the palestinians than of the "benevolence" of the israeli occupation / land grab.

so to make that comparison you must be profoundly ignorant or dishonest.

Not words you should be using ...
 
2012-07-02 01:57:31 PM  

Tatterdemalian: chuckufarlie: wantingout: Oh you're right. So the fact the the Israelis treat the Gazans just like the Nazis treated the Jews is ok, because Gazans can keep popping out more kids than than the number of people that the IDF kills. Makes sense!

The Israelis have starting gassing Gazans? When did that start?

People that whine about Israelis treating people like the Nazis treated them are truly ignorant. First of all, they are NOT doing that, not even close. Second, do you expect Israelis to be super nice to people and allow them to do as they please because of what the Jews suffered? That is nonsense.

Strangely enough, Israel is more concerned about people treating them badly. Go figure. These people that you want to Israelis to play nice with have a history of killing Israelis and have threatened to kill more.

I call it "Holocaust Non-Denial Denial." They make up lies about what the Israelis did, because they deeply believe the Holocaust survivors made up the Holocaust, and it's not fair that the Jews get to lie about the Holocaust but they don't get to lie about Israel.

/they get really lulzy when they flip out over the fact that reality itself doesn't bend to their will like it seems to do for Israel
//objective reality becomes a Zionist conspiracy


No, its the propaganda arms of the allied powers that made it up. Most survivors were themselves devices, with only a tiny minority complicit.
 
2012-07-02 02:05:05 PM  

Uncle Tractor: liam76: So when Nazi's put Jews in ghettos do you think they have more access to hospitals and universities then they did previously? Did their life expectancy go up? Infant mortality go down? Literacy go up? Becasue all of those things have happened to the Palestenians since Israel took over,

...despite the best efforts of Israel, because isolating people in banthustans surrounded by hostile savages or inflicting an unending siege broken only by sporadic air raids is such a great way to reduce child mortality (etc).

The statistics you're mentioning say far more about the resilience of the palestinians than of the "benevolence" of the israeli occupation / land grab.

so to make that comparison you must be profoundly ignorant or dishonest.

Not words you should be using ...


I didn't say they were benevolent, but the fact is the life of Palestenians under Israel control is better then when they were prior to the founding of Israel, and when gaza and the west bank were controlled by Egypt and Jordan.

So for you to compare their treatment to that of jews under Nazi's you are being dishonest. Just as you are being dishonest with claims of this being despite "the best effort of Israel". If they wanted to they could wipe out Palestenians in a day or two, of course you are too blinded by antisemetism to see that isn't what Israel wants.
 
2012-07-02 02:09:44 PM  
Devices/deceived.
gah.
 
2012-07-02 02:21:25 PM  

SoxSweepAgain: Here's one I wish had survived. I read her book in the 70's when I was at the age she wrote it, and it still tears me up:
[img.photobucket.com image 200x254]

[img.photobucket.com image 460x276]

She'd only be 83 now. But she died as a teenager in a Nazi death camp.

What a waste.


upload.wikimedia.org

Lousy way to die.


www.malariaworld.org

It's a pity that the Germans didn't have access.

Could have saved the life of Anne and so many others.
 
2012-07-02 02:22:59 PM  
wow...that one is so weird and wrong even he wouldn't show up in the thread:
encrypted-tbn0.google.com
 
2012-07-02 02:25:44 PM  

liam76: The fact is that according to the UN HDI Palestenians, under Israel, did better than many of their arab neighbors.



Yeah, well, on the whole, it seems that the descendants of black slaves brought to the US have fared far better than their relatives who remained in Africa.

No?
 
2012-07-02 02:32:29 PM  

Amos Quito: liam76: The fact is that according to the UN HDI Palestenians, under Israel, did better than many of their arab neighbors.


Yeah, well, on the whole, it seems that the descendants of black slaves brought to the US have fared far better than their relatives who remained in Africa.

No?


Not sure how pointing out that the relationship between USA and African Americans really doesn't resemble the relationship between jews and Nazi's adds to the conversation, but I am sure you will find some way to twist that into proof that jews are evil.
 
2012-07-02 03:24:37 PM  

liam76: Amos Quito: liam76: The fact is that according to the UN HDI Palestenians, under Israel, did better than many of their arab neighbors.


Yeah, well, on the whole, it seems that the descendants of black slaves brought to the US have fared far better than their relatives who remained in Africa.

No?

Not sure how pointing out that the relationship between USA and African Americans really doesn't resemble the relationship between jews and Nazi's adds to the conversation, but I am sure you will find some way to twist that into proof that jews are evil.



Your implication seems to be that the Palestinians are better of thanks to their brutal occupation under the Israelis.

Sounds like you're saying the Pallies should be grateful for the "comforts" with which the Zionist boot-heel has blessed them.

No?
 
2012-07-02 04:49:18 PM  

liam76: I didn't say they were benevolent, but the fact is the life of Palestenians under Israel control is better then when they were prior to the founding of Israel,


You know what the world was like prior to the founding of Israel? It was worse for pretty much everybody, and the further back you go, the worse it was.

and when gaza and the west bank were controlled by Egypt and Jordan.

Yeah, but they're not there any longer, so who cares?

So for you to compare their treatment to that of jews under Nazi's you are being dishonest.

No, I'm not. Remember, bot are instances of a dominant ethnicity trying to rid a land area of another ethnicity.

How else can you create a jewish homeland in an area where more than 90% of the population is arab?

Just as you are being dishonest with claims of this being despite "the best effort of Israel". If they wanted to they could wipe out Palestenians in a day or two,

But then the world would turn against you the way it turned against Hitler and Milosevic. Even the US would have stopped supporting Israel. So instead, the zionists have settled for a slow apartheid / cleansing that takes place over decades. It won't last much longer though.

of course you are too blinded by antisemetism to see that isn't what Israel wants.

...And that's why you have no right to talk about dishonesty.
 
2012-07-02 05:40:21 PM  

Amos Quito: Your implication seems to be that the Palestinians are better of thanks to their brutal occupation under the Israelis.

Sounds like you're saying the Pallies should be grateful for the "comforts" with which the Zionist boot-heel has blessed them.

No?


I'll say it if he won't: the Palestinians are provably better off under an Israeli democracy than under an Islamic theocracy.

/feel free to call me a monster for saying that
//I'll just as freely call you a liar for using the word "brutal" to describe Israeli "occupation"
 
2012-07-02 06:02:38 PM  

Tatterdemalian: I'll say it if he won't: the Palestinians are provably better off under an Israeli democracy than under an Islamic theocracy.


The problem with this israeli democracy is that it's for jews only. Yes, some of the arabs get to vote (not the ones in Gaza and the WB), but they're a minority and Israel does not enforce laws that protect minorities (if Israel even has laws like that). I'll admit all those paper victories look good in the headlines, though.

/feel free to call me a monster for saying that
//I'll just as freely call you a liar for using the word "brutal" to describe Israeli "occupation"


Yeah, because there's nothing brutal about rampaging settlers or bombing civilians with white phosphorus.
 
2012-07-02 06:05:01 PM  

Uncle Tractor: But then the world would turn against you the way it turned against Hitler and Milosevic. Even the US would have stopped supporting Israel. So instead, the zionists have settled for a slow apartheid / cleansing that takes place over decades. It won't last much longer though.


Muslim arab Israelis citizens have the same rights as Jewish Israeli's, so not an apartheid.

The population of arab muslims (in Israel and in Palestine) is growing faster then the population of jews, so not cleansing.

You, continually lying about it, an anti-semite.

Amos Quito: Your implication seems to be that the Palestinians are better of thanks to their brutal occupation under the Israelis.

Sounds like you're saying the Pallies should be grateful for the "comforts" with which the Zionist boot-heel has blessed them.

No?


No. The implication is that anyone who uses the language of the holocaust (claims of death camps, comparison of Israel to Nazi's, etc) is either ignorant or dishonest. Didn't say anything about "grateful".
 
2012-07-02 06:20:13 PM  

Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: liam76: The fact is that according to the UN HDI Palestenians, under Israel, did better than many of their arab neighbors.


Yeah, well, on the whole, it seems that the descendants of black slaves brought to the US have fared far better than their relatives who remained in Africa.

No?

Not sure how pointing out that the relationship between USA and African Americans really doesn't resemble the relationship between jews and Nazi's adds to the conversation, but I am sure you will find some way to twist that into proof that jews are evil.


Your implication seems to be that the Palestinians are better of thanks to their brutal occupation under the Israelis.

Sounds like you're saying the Pallies should be grateful for the "comforts" with which the Zionist boot-heel has blessed them.

No?


When life gives you lemons, amirite?

The Palis, AKA the world's biggest welfare case, enjoy a much higher standard of living than many of their brethren (indeed, many Americans) thanks to your donations.
 
2012-07-02 06:22:56 PM  

Amos Quito: liam76: The fact is that according to the UN HDI Palestenians, under Israel, did better than many of their arab neighbors.


Yeah, well, on the whole, it seems that the descendants of black slaves brought to the US have fared far better than their relatives who remained in Africa.

No?


[citation needed]

Africa is a whole entire continent, with many countries and peoples, btw.
 
2012-07-02 07:20:55 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Amos Quito: Your implication seems to be that the Palestinians are better of thanks to their brutal occupation under the Israelis.

Sounds like you're saying the Pallies should be grateful for the "comforts" with which the Zionist boot-heel has blessed them.

No?

I'll say it if he won't: the Palestinians are provably better off under an Israeli democracy than under an Islamic theocracy.



Okay then, prove it.

And remember, we're not just talking about the small number of Palestinians that live in "Israel proper", but those that live in Gaza, the West Bank and the various concentration refugee camps that they were forced to flee to thanks to the invasion of the interloping European Jews.


media.komonews.com

BTW, I read that one of your favorite terrorists / former Prime Ministers died over the weekend.

My condolences.
 
2012-07-02 07:31:41 PM  

liam76: Uncle Tractor: But then the world would turn against you the way it turned against Hitler and Milosevic. Even the US would have stopped supporting Israel. So instead, the zionists have settled for a slow apartheid / cleansing that takes place over decades. It won't last much longer though.

Muslim arab Israelis citizens have the same rights as Jewish Israeli's, so not an apartheid.

The population of arab muslims (in Israel and in Palestine) is growing faster then the population of jews, so not cleansing.

You, continually lying about it, an anti-semite.

Amos Quito: Your implication seems to be that the Palestinians are better of thanks to their brutal occupation under the Israelis.

Sounds like you're saying the Pallies should be grateful for the "comforts" with which the Zionist boot-heel has blessed them.

No?

No. The implication is that anyone who uses the language of the holocaust (claims of death camps, comparison of Israel to Nazi's, etc) is either ignorant or dishonest. Didn't say anything about "grateful".



I seem to recall that the Nazis sought to enforce the dominance of a single ethnic group over others, to expand their territory in the name of "living space" and manifest destiny, and rationalized their doing so by claiming that out-group members were inferior, subversive, of dubious loyalty, and that they posed a threat to state security.

They uprooted, isolated and concentrated the targeted groups, depriving them of liberty, property, means of livelihood and of life itself, all in the name of "security" and the betterment of the Reich.

Any of this sound familiar?
 
2012-07-02 07:35:21 PM  

Amos Quito:
They uprooted, isolated and concentrated the targeted groups, depriving them of liberty, property, means of livelihood and of life itself, all in the name of "security" and the betterment of the Reich.

Any of this sound familiar?


The US? Mongolians? Islamists?
Lots of people have done that.

Btw, are you happy now that people are playing with you?
Who's a good little shiat, eh? Who's a good little shiat? Want a cookie? They're halal!
 
2012-07-02 07:43:25 PM  

Porous Horace: Amos Quito:
They uprooted, isolated and concentrated the targeted groups, depriving them of liberty, property, means of livelihood and of life itself, all in the name of "security" and the betterment of the Reich.

Any of this sound familiar?

The US? Mongolians? Islamists?
Lots of people have done that.



Yeah, but we're only supposed to cry about the Jews that Hitler hit, right?

Porous Horace: Btw, are you happy now that people are playing with you?
Who's a good little shiat, eh? Who's a good little shiat? Want a cookie? They're halal!


cdn1.spiegel.de

"Poor Us! Whore Us!"

Innat right, Porous Horace
 
2012-07-02 07:43:54 PM  

Amos Quito: ... the various refugee camps ...


You mean the ones in Arab countries? Why are the Arabs treating the Palis so poorly? Aren't they brethren? Or can the only things Arabs be united about is hatred for non-Arabs/Muslims?
 
2012-07-02 08:05:52 PM  
See?
 
2012-07-02 08:28:42 PM  

Amos Quito: liam76:

No. The implication is that anyone who uses the language of the holocaust (claims of death camps, comparison of Israel to Nazi's, etc) is either ignorant or dishonest. Didn't say anything about "grateful".


I seem to recall that the Nazis sought to enforce the dominance of a single ethnic group over others, to expand their territory in the name of "living space" and manifest destiny, and rationalized their doing so by claiming that out-group members were inferior, subversive, of dubious loyalty, and that they posed a threat to state security.

They uprooted, isolated and concentrated the targeted groups, depriving them of liberty, property, means of livelihood and of life itself, all in the name of "security" and the betterment of the Reich.

Any of this sound familiar?


That sounds like every invasion in history. The holocaust was a lot more than that. It was attempted genocide of specific religious and ethnic groups.

As far as the "dubious loyalty" and "threat to state security" do you think that is just a claim wrt Palestinian feelings on Israel? Even a lying sack of anti-semitic shiat, like your self, can clearly see the difference between the relationship german jews had with germany (many loyal people who actually fought for Germany during WWI) and Arab muslims had with Israel (declared war when it was founded).

Also Nazi Germany didn't allow the "targeted groups" to vote, keep citizenship, etc.
 
2012-07-02 10:02:36 PM  

liam76: Amos Quito: liam76:

No. The implication is that anyone who uses the language of the holocaust (claims of death camps, comparison of Israel to Nazi's, etc) is either ignorant or dishonest. Didn't say anything about "grateful".


I seem to recall that the Nazis sought to enforce the dominance of a single ethnic group over others, to expand their territory in the name of "living space" and manifest destiny, and rationalized their doing so by claiming that out-group members were inferior, subversive, of dubious loyalty, and that they posed a threat to state security.

They uprooted, isolated and concentrated the targeted groups, depriving them of liberty, property, means of livelihood and of life itself, all in the name of "security" and the betterment of the Reich.

Any of this sound familiar?

That sounds like every invasion in history. The holocaust was a lot more than that. It was attempted genocide of specific religious and ethnic groups.

As far as the "dubious loyalty" and "threat to state security" do you think that is just a claim wrt Palestinian feelings on Israel? Even a lying sack of anti-semitic shiat, like your self, can clearly see the difference between the relationship german jews had with germany (many loyal people who actually fought for Germany during WWI) and Arab muslims had with Israel (declared war when it was founded).

Also Nazi Germany didn't allow the "targeted groups" to vote, keep citizenship, etc.


Don't you remember? Just the other day he said that Jews engineered the Holocaust for their little Middle East land swindle and German Jews brought on Kristallnacht by protesting Nazi policies. He even posted helpful pictures.
 
2012-07-03 04:20:03 AM  

liam76: Muslim arab Israelis citizens have the same rights as Jewish Israeli's, so not an apartheid.


Those rights are on paper only. Also, I notice you say "Israeli citizens." What about those in Gaza and the WB? What rights do they have? None.

The population of arab muslims (in Israel and in Palestine) is growing faster then the population of jews, so not cleansing.

The amount of land available to them is shrinking, so definitely cleansing.

You, continually lying about it, an anti-semite.

The only liar here is you. BTW:

i560.photobucket.com

Your petulant accusations of anti-semitism don't work any more. Israel is a racist state. Calling Israel (and it's idiot supporters) on it isn't racist.
 
2012-07-03 04:31:41 AM  

liam76: That sounds like every invasion in history. The holocaust was a lot more than that. It was attempted genocide of specific religious and ethnic groups.


The "genocide" bit didn't appear until 1941(-ish). Before that, the nazis wanted to evict the jews, not wipe them out. That's why Eichmann was sent to Palestine, for instance. Not unlike what Israel wants for the Palestinians now.

As far as the "dubious loyalty" and "threat to state security" do you think that is just a claim wrt Palestinian feelings on Israel? Even a lying sack of anti-semitic shiat, like your self,

...heh ...

can clearly see the difference between the relationship german jews had with germany (many loyal people who actually fought for Germany during WWI) and Arab muslims had with Israel (declared war when it was founded).

The arabs declared war because a european colony was created on their land. I don't see anything strange about that.

Also Nazi Germany didn't allow the "targeted groups" to vote, keep citizenship, etc.

First, the arab vote is about as worthless as the vote of a black guy in a southern lynch mob. Second, about keeping their citizenships ...
 
2012-07-03 06:50:24 AM  

Uncle Tractor: The "genocide" bit didn't appear until 1941(-ish). Before that, the nazis wanted to evict the jews, not wipe them out. That's why Eichmann was sent to Palestine, for instance. Not unlike what Israel wants for the Palestinians now.


Only if you are a lying antisemitic piece of shiat who sees no difference between Gaza/west bank and concentration camps/ghettos.

And please remember that it has been proven that life in Gaza/West bank is objectivley better according to the UN HDI under Israel, but don't let things like reality get in the way of your jew hate.


Uncle Tractor: liam76: Also Nazi Germany didn't allow the "targeted groups" to vote, keep citizenship, etc.

First, the arab vote is about as worthless as the vote of a black guy in a southern lynch mob. Second, about keeping their citizenships ...



Too bad the article wasn't about Israeli citizens, but palestenians with resident status? So the questiion is are you tto stupid to know the difference between resident and citizen, or do you feel fine lying about the difference if it makes Israel look bad?
 
2012-07-03 07:27:37 AM  

liam76: Only if you are a lying antisemitic piece of shiat who sees no difference between Gaza/west bank and concentration camps/ghettos.


Why do you keep ignoring the fact that the Holocaust wasn't gas chambers from day one, but slowly developed over a period of over a decade? Oh yeah; because it doesn't fit your agenda. Israel can't be compared with Germany in the 40s, but it can be compared with Germany in the 30s. Is it a carbon copy? No. Nor does that invalidate the comparisons. Every ethnic cleansing is unique, even though they share certain characteristics.

And please remember that it has been proven that life in Gaza/West bank is objectivley better according to the UN HDI under Israel,

Which, as you know, is *despite* Israel's best efforts ...or perhaps you can tell me how rampaging settlers and army choke-points somehow make life better for the palestinians?

but don't let things like reality get in the way of your jew hate.

Grow up, kiddo.

Uncle Tractor: First, the arab vote is about as worthless as the vote of a black guy in a southern lynch mob. Second, about keeping their citizenships ..

Too bad the article wasn't about Israeli citizens, but palestenians with resident status? So the questiion is are you tto stupid to know the difference between resident and citizen, or do you feel fine lying about the difference if it makes Israel look bad?

Yeah, I thought you might focus on that. Typical dishonest hasbara tactic. Why don't you explain to me the practical difference for a WB palestinian between being stripped of his / her residency and of his / her citizenship?
 
2012-07-03 07:58:10 AM  

Uncle Tractor: liam76: Only if you are a lying antisemitic piece of shiat who sees no difference between Gaza/west bank and concentration camps/ghettos.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that the Holocaust wasn't gas chambers from day one, but slowly developed over a period of over a decade? Oh yeah; because it doesn't fit your agenda. Israel can't be compared with Germany in the 40s, but it can be compared with Germany in the 30s. Is it a carbon copy? No. Nor does that invalidate the comparisons. Every ethnic cleansing is unique, even though they share certain characteristics.


I am not ignoring it, in fact I have shown you evidence, repeatedly that the situation for Jews in Germany even before death camps was far worse than what Palestenians face, and the goals are clearly different.

The one ignoring facts here is you. You ignore attacks by Palestenians, you ignore the improvement in their life under Israeli rule (which even a lying piece of shiat like your self can;t claim for jews under Nazi's). You are ignoring your own farking posts. In one decade Jews went from regular loyal citizens to being sent to deathcamps through no fault of their own. Palestenians, otoh, have been supporting wars against Israel, electing parties that call from wiping Israel out to removing every jew in Israel, etc for the past 60+years yet they are doing better than many fo their arab neighbors.


Uncle Tractor: And please remember that it has been proven that life in Gaza/West bank is objectivley better according to the UN HDI under Israel,

Which, as you know, is *despite* Israel's best efforts ...or perhaps you can tell me how rampaging settlers and army choke-points somehow make life better for the palestinians?


Despite Israel's best efforts? Try despite Palestenians best efforts. Look at the economy in Palestine prior to the 2nd intafada. One fo the fastes gtrowing economies in the ME, but all the trade and labor that was going back and forth came to a screeching ahlt because of the actions of the Palestenians. Their rocket attacks, suicide bombins, and gunmen made regular trade impossible.


Uncle Tractor: liam76: Too bad the article wasn't about Israeli citizens, but palestenians with resident status? So the questiion is are you tto stupid to know the difference between resident and citizen, or do you feel fine lying about the difference if it makes Israel look bad?

Yeah, I thought you might focus on that. Typical dishonest hasbara tactic. Why don't you explain to me the practical difference for a WB palestinian between being stripped of his / her residency and of his / her citizenship?


Dishonest tactis? We were talking abotu citizens and you brought up residents. You changed the subject. You dishonestly pretended that residents losing their residency had something to do with arab citizens of Israel.

So now you are pretending you are too stupid to know the difference between a citizen and a resident? You are too farking dense to know that a citizen has the right to vote, the right to live there forever? You are so stupid you don't realize that residents don't get to vote, don;t have a guarantee to live there forever, need to perform certain steps to keep their residency? All of that is news to you? Or how about you put on your big girl pants and admit you were dishonest.
 
2012-07-03 09:34:41 AM  

liam76: I am not ignoring it, in fact I have shown you evidence, repeatedly


Where? Go on, give me a link and a quote.

that the situation for Jews in Germany even before death camps was far worse than what Palestenians face, and the goals are clearly different.

Today's Israel has the same goals as the Third Reich before 1941; to get rid of an unwanted people. For the TR it was the jews, for Israel it's the non-jews.

The one ignoring facts here is you. You ignore attacks by Palestenians,

Because they are totally irrelevant to this discussion.

you ignore the improvement in their life under Israeli rule

I have done no such thing. You, however, have repeatedly ignored my request for an explanation of how the israeli occupation has caused these improvements.

(which even a lying piece of shiat like your self

How old are you? 14?

one decade Jews went from regular loyal citizens to being sent to deathcamps through no fault of their own.

...and the palestinians went from being people minding their own business to being second-rate citizens in a territory desired by an aggressive european colony. No, the palestinians haven't been sent to death-camps. Yet. There's no telling what the future holds.

Which, as you know, is *despite* Israel's best efforts ...or perhaps you can tell me how rampaging settlers and army choke-points somehow make life better for the palestinians?

Despite Israel's best efforts?


Apart from the efforts mentioned in the text quoted above? Apart from chopping up the WB, isolating the palestinians in smaller and smaller enclaves, hindering their access to hospitals, schools, even their own farmlands? Using Gaza as a live fire target range? Destroying orchards, stealing water, killing random civilians, destroying property, hindering movement, and so on? Apart from all that, you mean?

Why don't you tell me about many ways in which Israel has improved the lives of the palestinians?

Try despite Palestenians best efforts. Look at the economy in Palestine prior to the 2nd intafada. One fo the fastes gtrowing economies in the ME, but all the trade and labor that was going back and forth came to a screeching ahlt be ...

And you talk about "ignoring?" What a hypocrite you are. I suppose that's a requirement for being a hasbara muppet.
 
2012-07-03 09:36:20 AM  

Amos Quito: SoxSweepAgain: Here's one I wish had survived. I read her book in the 70's when I was at the age she wrote it, and it still tears me up:
[img.photobucket.com image 200x254]

[img.photobucket.com image 460x276]

She'd only be 83 now. But she died as a teenager in a Nazi death camp.

What a waste.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x344]

Lousy way to die.


[www.malariaworld.org image 424x424]

It's a pity that the Germans didn't have access.

Could have saved the life of Anne and so many others.


that bottle of DDT looks like a bottle of soda
 
2012-07-03 09:42:22 AM  

liam76: Yeah, I thought you might focus on that. Typical dishonest hasbara tactic. Why don't you explain to me the practical difference for a WB palestinian between being stripped of his / her residency and of his / her citizenship?

Dishonest tactis? We were talking abotu citizens and you brought up residents. You changed the subject.


I'm not changing the subject. However...

You dishonestly pretended that residents losing their residency had something to do with arab citizens of Israel.

So now you are pretending you are too stupid to know the difference between a citizen and a resident? You are too farking dense to know that a citizen has the right to vote, the right to live there forever? You are so stupid you don't realize that residents don't get to vote, don;t have a guarantee to live there forever, need to perform certain steps to keep their residency? All of that is news to you?


Good, and now you get to tell me why a palestinian citizen of palestine (the WB) is merely a "resident" rather than a citizen, and what authority Israel has to deny it? Is this an indirect admission that the WB is part of Israel? If so, why aren't people who've lived there their whole lives no citizens with the right to vote? Apartheid?

Or how about you put on your big girl pants and admit you were dishonest.

Speaking of big girl pants, it looks to me like you've got your knickers all twisted up.
 
2012-07-03 09:49:10 AM  

Uncle Tractor: liam76: I am not ignoring it, in fact I have shown you evidence, repeatedly

Where? Go on, give me a link and a quote.

that the situation for Jews in Germany even before death camps was far worse than what Palestenians face, and the goals are clearly different.

Today's Israel has the same goals as the Third Reich before 1941; to get rid of an unwanted people. For the TR it was the jews, for Israel it's the non-jews.


I have provided you a link to the UN HDI numerous times. this isn't our first conversation, and you even conceded that all the factors I listed (life expectancy, literacy, etc) have improved. Now you are going to go yoru ussual route and play dumb.


If they have the same goals as the Nazi's in 1941 (which you haven't posted a single shred of evidence for, and goes against the growth of the rights of Israeli Muslim Arabs for the past 50 or so years) then they must be terribly inept as the % of Israeli Muslim Arabs is rising, but you aren't one to let facts get ont he way of your dishonest comparisons.


Uncle Tractor: How old are you? 14?


I am sorry you don't like being called a lying piece of shiat, but when you repeated lie (pretend you don't knwo the difference between resident and citizen, pretend I am making up the UN HDI, etc) I am going to call you out on it.
 
2012-07-03 09:55:49 AM  

Uncle Tractor: I'm not changing the subject. However...


You can only think that if you are too stupid/dishonest to see the difference between Israeli citizens and residents.

Either way there is no popint going on unless you can fix your stupidity/dishonesty.
 
2012-07-03 11:31:12 AM  

Fano: Don't you remember? Just the other day he said that Jews engineered the Holocaust for their little Middle East land swindle and German Jews brought on Kristallnacht by protesting Nazi policies. He even posted helpful pictures.



Mind digging up exact quotes where I said what you allege I said and posting them here Fano?

You know, prove you're not a hyperbolic liar?

Pathetic, lad.

I thought better of you.
 
2012-07-03 04:39:08 PM  

liam76: Uncle Tractor:Today's Israel has the same goals as the Third Reich before 1941; to get rid of an unwanted people. For the TR it was the jews, for Israel it's the non-jews.

I have provided you a link to the UN HDI numerous times. this isn't our first conversation, and you even conceded that all the factors I listed (life expectancy, literacy, etc) have improved. Now you are going to go yoru ussual route and play dumb.


It's like I'm talking to a wall here. Sure,their life expectancy etc has improved. I'm not arguing against that. What I'm arguing against is that Israel somehow deserves the credit for this. Not only that, but each time I ask you to explain why you think Israel deserves credit for this, despite all the shiat they're putting the palestinians through, you ignore it and return to your broken record.

Basically, you're being dishonest.

If they have the same goals as the Nazi's in 1941 (which you haven't posted a single shred of evidence for,

No, before 1941. Before 1941, Germany wanted the jews out, just like today's Israel wants the arabs out. After 1941, Germany wanted the jews dead. Thus the gas chambers.

and goes against the growth of the rights of Israeli Muslim Arabs for the past 50 or so years)

Paper rights only, and as such, they're worthless.

then they must be terribly inept as the % of Israeli Muslim Arabs is rising, but you aren't one to let facts get ont he way of your dishonest comparisons.

Does "israeli muslims" include the people in the WB and Gaza? Does "Israel" include the WB and Gaza?

Uncle Tractor: How old are you? 14?

I am sorry you don't like being called a lying piece of shiat, but when you repeated lie (pretend you don't knwo the difference between resident and citizen, pretend I am making up the UN HDI, etc) I am going to call you out on it.


Yeah, except I did no such thing, and it's obvious to anybody who's bothered to follow your blather. See, the problem isn't that you're calling me names. The problem is that it makes me feel like I'm wasting my time on some kid in junior high.

So to return to the question you keep dodging:

Why don't you tell me about the many ways in which Israel has improved the lives of the palestinians?
 
2012-07-03 04:40:46 PM  

liam76: Uncle Tractor: I'm not changing the subject. However...

You can only think that if you are too stupid/dishonest to see the difference between Israeli citizens and residents.

Either way there is no popint going on unless you can fix your stupidity/dishonesty.


I see you chose to ignore my question. I'll try again:

Tell me why a palestinian citizen of palestine (the WB) is merely a "resident" rather than a citizen, and what authority Israel has to deny it? Is this an indirect admission that the WB is part of Israel? If so, why aren't people who've lived there their whole lives no citizens with the right to vote? Apartheid?
 
2012-07-03 04:53:56 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Tell me why a palestinian citizen of palestine (the WB)


That you are still lying about that being the same subject as Israeli citizens shows, very clearly, you are too stupid/dishonest to have this conversation.

Not wasting my time until you can fix that.
 
2012-07-03 05:12:24 PM  

liam76: Uncle Tractor: Tell me why a palestinian citizen of palestine (the WB)

That you are still lying about that being the same subject as Israeli citizens shows, very clearly, you are too stupid/dishonest to have this conversation.

Not wasting my time until you can fix that.


Well, running away is easier than defending Israel.
 
2012-07-03 05:20:55 PM  
I got afew minutes, so I will go ahead and point out your lies, again, so I can just link to it next time.

Uncle Tractor: It's like I'm talking to a wall here. Sure,their life expectancy etc has improved. I'm not arguing against that. What I'm arguing against is that Israel somehow deserves the credit for this. Not only that, but each time I ask you to explain why you think Israel deserves credit for this, despite all the shiat they're putting the palestinians through, you ignore it and return to your broken record.


I am not trying to argue they "deserve" credit. I am pointing out the very real fact the undeniable fact that under Nazi Germany million sof jews were killed, they had their citizenship removed and all objective measure of quality of life went down, in stark contrast to what has happened to Palestinians. So any comparison to Nazi Germany is factually wrong, and only supported by the ignorant or liars.

Uncle Tractor: No, before 1941. Before 1941, Germany wanted the jews out, just like today's Israel wants the arabs out. After 1941, Germany wanted the jews dead. Thus the gas chambers.


First off if that was truly what you meant with the Nazi comparisons you would still agree that all association with the language of the holocaust (concentration camps, etc) is wrong, but seeing as how you chimed in supporting Amos that shows that is not what you meant. Of course that level of dishonesty is par for the course with you

Also it doesn't pass the BS test. When people talk about Nazi Germany they aren't bent out of shape because of what happened before 1941. It is because of the holocaust. Your comparison is like people who say those that want to take gun rights are like the Nazi's. Yes they took guns, but that isn't what people associate with Nazi's.

Also your comparison is flat out wrong because after 1941 things got worse for jews, whereas in Israel the rights of (and the % of the population who are) arab muslims is increasing. What is the point of bringing up Nazi's other than to prevent the next step? What is unique about Nazi's other than that next step? Bringing it up at all is dogwhistle politics, and you know that.

Uncle Tractor: Does "israeli muslims" include the people in the WB and Gaza? Does "Israel" include the WB and Gaza?


No. And personally I think they should get out, however after the showers of rockets and attacks since the pulled all their people out of Gaza, I can see how that is a tough to impossible sell politically.
 
2012-07-03 06:59:16 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Germany wanted the jews out, just like today's Israel wants the arabs out.


The other huge flaw with your comparison here is looking at it in a vacuum.
German jews fought for Germany in WWI. They supported the state of Germany. Palestinians and Israel? Not so much. Now you could make the argument in 1948 that jews had no right to be there but (aside form being racist*) since 1948 Palestinians have worked against Israel, elected groups whose platform is to wipe out all the jews, etc, and even an anti-Semitic nut like yourself can't compare the actions of jews in 1941 Germany to that.


*yes arguing that a group, because of ethnicity have no right to buy land, live in a place or have the same rights as their neighbors to form a govt is racist.
 
2012-07-04 02:53:14 AM  

liam76: I got afew minutes, so I will go ahead and point out your lies, again, so I can just link to it next time.

I am not trying to argue they "deserve" credit. I am pointing out the very real fact the undeniable fact that under Nazi Germany million sof jews were killed, they had their citizenship removed and all objective measure of quality of life went down, in stark contrast to what has happened to Palestinians. So any comparison to Nazi Germany is factually wrong, and only supported by the ignorant or liars.


Apart from the whole ethnic cleansing / land grab / state racism / lebensraum thing, you mean?

Uncle Tractor: No, before 1941. Before 1941, Germany wanted the jews out, just like today's Israel wants the arabs out. After 1941, Germany wanted the jews dead. Thus the gas chambers.

First off if that was truly what you meant with the Nazi comparisons you would still agree that all association with the language of the holocaust (concentration camps, etc) is wrong, but seeing as how you chimed in supporting Amos that shows that is not what you meant. Of course that level of dishonesty is par for the course with you

Also it doesn't pass the BS test. When people talk about Nazi Germany they aren't bent out of shape because of what happened before 1941. It is because of the holocaust.

The holocaust didn't begin with the gas chambers. It started immediately after the nazis came to power. The gas chambers were merely the "climax."

Your comparison is like people who say those that want to take gun rights are like the Nazi's. Yes they took guns, but that isn't what people associate with Nazi's.

People who think the Holocaust was nothing but the gas chambers don't know their history. Besides, I believe I've mentioned several times that I'm talking about Germany *before* 1941, so I don't see why you keep bringing it up.

I suppose it's because you need a strawman to attack.

The main thing about the nazis is the Lebensraum mentality. The gas chambers were just a consequence of that mentality. Zionism is based on the same ideas, and that makes the comparison a valid one. The fact that people like you only associate nazis with gas chambers and gun control (really? you sound like a gun nut) says more about you than anything else.

Also your comparison is flat out wrong because after 1941 things got worse for jews, whereas in Israel the rights of (and the % of the population who are) arab muslims is increasing.

Paper rights are worthless.

What is the point of bringing up Nazi's other than to prevent the next step?

See, that "next step" is what worries me. What will happen to the official israeli arabs (the ones outside Gaza and the WB) when their numbers become politically significant?

What is unique about Nazi's other than that next step? Bringing it up at all is dogwhistle politics, and you know that.

There's that strawman again.

Uncle Tractor: Does "israeli muslims" include the people in the WB and Gaza? Does "Israel" include the WB and Gaza?

No.


Why not? Israel seems to think the land they live on belongs to Israel, and the people who live on it go with it.

And personally I think they should get out, however after the showers of rockets and attacks since the pulled all their people out of Gaza, I can see how that is a tough to impossible sell politically.

Which again leads to the one-state solution.
 
2012-07-04 02:56:49 AM  

liam76: Uncle Tractor: Germany wanted the jews out, just like today's Israel wants the arabs out.

The other huge flaw with your comparison here is looking at it in a vacuum.
German jews fought for Germany in WWI. They supported the state of Germany. Palestinians and Israel? Not so much.


You seem to have difficulty wrapping your head around this whole not wanting a foreign colony planted on their land thing. Not much I can do until you've understood the concept.

Now you could make the argument in 1948 that jews had no right to be there but (aside form being racist*) since 1948 Palestinians have worked against Israel, elected groups whose platform is to wipe out all the jews, etc, and even an anti-Semitic nut like yourself can't compare the actions of jews in 1941 Germany to that.

And again with the childish ad hominems.

*yes arguing that a group, because of ethnicity have no right to buy land, live in a place or have the same rights as their neighbors to form a govt is racist.

This isn't about buying land. It's about creating a new homeland in somebody else's land, and you know it. Yet you keep hammering away with the same old discredited arguments, over and over.
 
2012-07-04 05:36:59 AM  

Uncle Tractor: liam76: I got afew minutes, so I will go ahead and point out your lies, again, so I can just link to it next time.

I am not trying to argue they "deserve" credit. I am pointing out the very real fact the undeniable fact that under Nazi Germany million sof jews were killed, they had their citizenship removed and all objective measure of quality of life went down, in stark contrast to what has happened to Palestinians. So any comparison to Nazi Germany is factually wrong, and only supported by the ignorant or liars.

Apart from the whole ethnic cleansing / land grab / state racism / lebensraum thing, you mean?

Uncle Tractor: No, before 1941. Before 1941, Germany wanted the jews out, just like today's Israel wants the arabs out. After 1941, Germany wanted the jews dead. Thus the gas chambers.

First off if that was truly what you meant with the Nazi comparisons you would still agree that all association with the language of the holocaust (concentration camps, etc) is wrong, but seeing as how you chimed in supporting Amos that shows that is not what you meant. Of course that level of dishonesty is par for the course with you

Also it doesn't pass the BS test. When people talk about Nazi Germany they aren't bent out of shape because of what happened before 1941. It is because of the holocaust.

The holocaust didn't begin with the gas chambers. It started immediately after the nazis came to power. The gas chambers were merely the "climax."

Your comparison is like people who say those that want to take gun rights are like the Nazi's. Yes they took guns, but that isn't what people associate with Nazi's.

People who think the Holocaust was nothing but the gas chambers don't know their history. Besides, I believe I've mentioned several times that I'm talking about Germany *before* 1941, so I don't see why you keep bringing it up.

I suppose it's because you need a strawman to attack.

The main thing about the nazis is the Lebensraum mentality. The gas chambers were just a consequence of that mentality. Zionism is based on the same ideas, and that makes the comparison a valid one. The fact that people like you only associate nazis with gas chambers and gun control (really? you sound like a gun nut) says more about you than anything else.

Also your comparison is flat out wrong because after 1941 things got worse for jews, whereas in Israel the rights of (and the % of the population who are) arab muslims is increasing.

Paper rights are worthless.

What is the point of bringing up Nazi's other than to prevent the next step?

See, that "next step" is what worries me. What will happen to the official israeli arabs (the ones outside Gaza and the WB) when their numbers become politically significant?

What is unique about Nazi's other than that next step? Bringing it up at all is dogwhistle politics, and you know that.

There's that strawman again.

Uncle Tractor: Does "israeli muslims" include the people in the WB and Gaza? Does "Israel" include the WB and Gaza?

No.

Why not? Israel seems to think the land they live on belongs to Israel, and the people who live on it go with it.

And personally I think they should get out, however after the showers of rockets and attacks since the pulled all their people out of Gaza, I can see how that is a tough to impossible sell politically.

Which again leads to the one-state solution.


The "main thing" about nazis was leibensraum? Really? Almost every war ever fought had a big land component. For you to sit there and deny that the unique and main thing that people think of and remember them for is the Holocaust has got to be your biggest lie to date.

Even if your claim here could pass the snuff test the fact is you chimed in to support Amos who was making dire t Holocaust comparisons, so I can't buy even your twisted mind buys that.

You claim the rights of Israeli Arabs are paper with no proof and ignore the govt benefits they get their parties in Parliament etc.
 
2012-07-04 06:31:53 AM  

liam76: The "main thing" about nazis was leibensraum? Really? Almost every war ever fought had a big land component.


Kings and emperors wanting to rule more land is not the same as lebensraum.

For you to sit there and deny that the unique and main thing that people think of and remember them for is the Holocaust has got to be your biggest lie to date.

I don't give a crap what people you know remember about the Third Reich (gun control???). I'm talking about their main motivation, which was lebensraum, which is also the driving force of zionism.

Even if your claim here could pass the snuff test the fact is you chimed in to support Amos who was making dire t Holocaust comparisons,

Where did I "chime in with Amos?" Quote and link, please.

You claim the rights of Israeli Arabs are paper with no proof and ignore the govt benefits they get their parties in Parliament etc.

Yeah, they have politicians in Knesset. Now, what have those politicians managed to do on behalf of their voters? Protect them from blatant land theft? No. Give them equal rights to water? No. Give them equal education? No. Ensure equal treatment under the law? No. Prevent the apartheid wall from being built? No. They're just for show, so hasbara muppets like you can point to them and say "equal rights."

Oh, and:

Tell me why a palestinian citizen of palestine (the WB) is merely a "resident" rather than a citizen, and what authority Israel has to deny it? Is this an indirect admission that the WB is part of Israel? If so, why aren't people who've lived there their whole lives no citizens with the right to vote? Apartheid?
 
2012-07-04 07:59:36 AM  

Uncle Tractor: liam76: The "main thing" about nazis was leibensraum? Really? Almost every war ever fought had a big land component.

Kings and emperors wanting to rule more land is not the same as lebensraum.

For you to sit there and deny that the unique and main thing that people think of and remember them for is the Holocaust has got to be your biggest lie to date.

I don't give a crap what people you know remember about the Third Reich (gun control???). I'm talking about their main motivation, which was lebensraum, which is also the driving force of zionism.

Even if your claim here could pass the snuff test the fact is you chimed in to support Amos who was making dire t Holocaust comparisons,

Where did I "chime in with Amos?" Quote and link, please.

You claim the rights of Israeli Arabs are paper with no proof and ignore the govt benefits they get their parties in Parliament etc.

Yeah, they have politicians in Knesset. Now, what have those politicians managed to do on behalf of their voters? Protect them from blatant land theft? No. Give them equal rights to water? No. Give them equal education? No. Ensure equal treatment under the law? No. Prevent the apartheid wall from being built? No. They're just for show, so hasbara muppets like you can point to them and say "equal rights."

Oh, and:

Tell me why a palestinian citizen of palestine (the WB) is merely a "resident" rather than a citizen, and what authority Israel has to deny it? Is this an indirect admission that the WB is part of Israel? If so, why aren't people who've lived there their whole lives no citizens with the right to vote? Apartheid?


I am on my phone i cant directly quote the bs highlights in this post but "their voters" are Israeli citizens. All your claims of water, wall etc don't apply to Israeli citizens because Palestinians donvite in Israel.

Ten farking posts on and you are pretending Israeli citizens and Palestinians are the same thing.
 
2012-07-04 01:13:54 PM  

liam76: Ten farking posts on and you are pretending Israeli citizens and Palestinians are the same thing.


They are, when Uncle Tractor wants them to be. They are also completely different, when Uncle Tractor wants them to be.

---

The needle went up to sixty. "How many fingers, Winston?"

"Five! Five! Fivel"

"No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?"

"Four! Five! Four! Anything you like. Only stop it, stop the pain!"

Abruptly he was sitting up with O'Brien's arm round his shoulders. He had perhaps lost consciousness for a few seconds.... He felt very cold, he was shaking uncontrollably.... For a moment he clung to O'Brien like a baby, curiously comforted by the heavy arm round his shoulders. He had the feeling that O'Brien was his protector, that the pain was something that came from outside, from some other source, and that it was O'Brien who would save him from it.

"You are a slow learner, Winston," said O'Brien gently.

"How can I help it?" he blubbered. "How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes. they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

-- George Orwell, 1984
 
2012-07-04 01:36:54 PM  

Tatterdemalian: liam76: Ten farking posts on and you are pretending Israeli citizens and Palestinians are the same thing.

They are, when Uncle Tractor wants them to be. They are also completely different, when Uncle Tractor wants them to be.

---

The needle went up to sixty. "How many fingers, Winston?"

"Five! Five! Fivel"

"No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?"

"Four! Five! Four! Anything you like. Only stop it, stop the pain!"

Abruptly he was sitting up with O'Brien's arm round his shoulders. He had perhaps lost consciousness for a few seconds.... He felt very cold, he was shaking uncontrollably.... For a moment he clung to O'Brien like a baby, curiously comforted by the heavy arm round his shoulders. He had the feeling that O'Brien was his protector, that the pain was something that came from outside, from some other source, and that it was O'Brien who would save him from it.

"You are a slow learner, Winston," said O'Brien gently.

"How can I help it?" he blubbered. "How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes. they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

-- George Orwell, 1984


Careful, you can get accused of being a hyperbolic liar to draw conclusions from conveniently arbitrarily used facts
 
2012-07-04 01:40:56 PM  

liam76: I am on my phone i cant directly quote the bs highlights in this post but "their voters" are Israeli citizens. All your claims of water, wall etc don't apply to Israeli citizens because Palestinians donvite in Israel.


Do WB settlers vote in israeli elections? Yes? Then why don't the palestinians get to vote as well?

Ten farking posts on and you are pretending Israeli citizens and Palestinians are the same thing.

Yes, and I'll keep on doing that until Israel stops pretending that Gaza and the WB is part of Israel.
 
2012-07-04 02:08:53 PM  

Fano: Careful, you can get accused of being a hyperbolic liar to draw conclusions from conveniently arbitrarily used facts


I honestly don't care what they accuse me of. You'll notice I never bothered to respond to Amos Quitler's demand for proof; if I reproduced the WHO's reports he would just declare them invalid for being reposted plagarized. Really the only reason I even bother to comment is to see what bizarre leaps of logic they spew, as it tends to give away the Taliban's plans for their next wave of anti-American propaganda.
 
2012-07-04 03:03:07 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Fano: Careful, you can get accused of being a hyperbolic liar to draw conclusions from conveniently arbitrarily used facts

I honestly don't care what they accuse me of. You'll notice I never bothered to respond to Amos Quitler's demand for proof; if I reproduced the WHO's reports he would just declare them invalid for being reposted plagarized. Really the only reason I even bother to comment is to see what bizarre leaps of logic they spew, as it tends to give away the Taliban's plans for their next wave of anti-American propaganda.


I didn't and won't respond because it is apparent that endless semantics games, goalpost shifting, and Schrodinger's Cat-like shifts in logic are useless.

I just like clarifying "I'm just asking questions here" statements intended to crudely hide the a priori assumption.
 
2012-07-04 10:02:24 PM  

Uncle Tractor: liam76: I am on my phone i cant directly quote the bs highlights in this post but "their voters" are Israeli citizens. All your claims of water, wall etc don't apply to Israeli citizens because Palestinians donvite in Israel.

Do WB settlers vote in israeli elections? Yes? Then why don't the palestinians get to vote as well?

Ten farking posts on and you are pretending Israeli citizens and Palestinians are the same thing.

Yes, and I'll keep on doing that until Israel stops pretending that Gaza and the WB is part of Israel.


So you think because I lived in Indonesia (as an American ) Indonesian should be able to vote in the us?

I think I was pretty clear that I thought WB and Gaza wasn't part of Israel, of course me being clear on something never stopped you from being dishonest.
 
2012-07-05 05:35:51 AM  

liam76: Yes, and I'll keep on doing that until Israel stops pretending that Gaza and the WB is part of Israel.

So you think because I lived in Indonesia (as an American ) Indonesian should be able to vote in the us?


You are aware that there is a difference between living in a country and colonizing it, right?

Right?

I think I was pretty clear that I thought WB and Gaza wasn't part of Israel, of course me being clear on something never stopped you from being dishonest.

Oh, I know *you* think the WB and Gaza aren't part of Israel. Unfortunately, Israel doesn't agree with you.

Israel has successfully killed the two-state solution. All that's left is the one-state solution, and that means that the palestinians are de facto israelis, regardless of whether anybody wants it that way.

You might as well accept the facts on the ground; the arabs of Gaza and the WB are de facto israeli citizens.
 
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