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(Daily Mail)   Hello? Yes, this is God   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 247
    More: Cool, CERN, god, Edinburgh University, LHC, positive result, Peter Higgs, higgs particles, particle accelerators  
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29152 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2012 at 11:38 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-02 12:09:51 PM  

El Morro: how we might be able to apply this information in a practical way? Obviously, it's going to take years and years and years of research and development, but, what are scientists talking about doing with this?

Would it be possible to manipulate the Higgs field? Are we talking about making near mass-less spacecraft for long distance travel? What's the potential here?


Well, to an extent, I'm not sure we know. It could turn out to be useless.

Think of it this way: When we first discovered electricity and magnetism (and even when we linked the two) they were... novelties. Fairly useless outside a VERY small range.

Or how the greeks figured out steam power, but didn't really use it for crap.

But now....

It's really hard to predict where discoveries will lead. That's one of the reasons we call it research, and not engineering. =)
 
2012-07-02 12:12:15 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: KellyX: Well, here's hoping they use the particle accelerator for something else that advances us technologically now!

I hear ya. A safe sustainable source of power would be nice. It's hard to even imagine how many problems cheap virtually infinite power would solve - food, housing, clean water, the environment, feasible space travel, the works.

Particle physics like this, however, is pretty much the ultra-bleeding edge of knowledge. Unlike applied sciences, the payoff here is probably extremely long term. If the human species is still around a thousand years from now, they will benefit greatly from the work being done today, just like we benefit from the work of Euclid in 300BC. Though the average person in Euclid's time benefited very little from him sitting around thinking amazing things. Applied engineering, like how to smelt iron was of far greater practical impact in the short term.


You never know though. We found a good microscopy use for quantum tunnelling, for example. I feel like engineering may be catcing up, on a macro trend kind of scale, to the that bleeding edge.

/just a hunch, though
//no, it's pronounced eyegor
 
2012-07-02 12:26:08 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: /still a matter of refusing to question the standard model


Nobody is refusing to question the standard model. It doesn't even include gravity, for one obvious brick in the face example. So we know with certainty it is woefully incomplete. And there are several other nagging problems with it than just that one.

It is a good platform for further improvement. For now, the standard model is like the stable boring 1.0 release version, but missing a lot of features we really want. Supersymmetry models are the unstable 2.1 beta test version. String theories are in the vaporware stage for version 6.0 down the line.

The going may get tough at that point, because it is probably not a physical possibility to directly measure strings and small dimensions, like we do with particles now. We will have to start getting clever. Right now we are fumbling around with the really easy obvious stuff.
 
2012-07-02 12:29:12 PM  

Steve Zodiac: cman: Can someone dumb it down even more for a moron like me? Thank you

I will probably get part of this wrong, but here is my understanding. Under the Standard Model of Quantum physics, all forces are really particles which interact with with atoms, or parts of atoms. So electricity, magnetism, nuclear forces (strong and weak) and gravity are all caused by the interaction of particles on atoms. The holy grail of physics is to find one theory which explains all 4 forces (nuclear, gravity, etc). Magnetism and electricity were actually explained as different aspects of the same force by a man named Maxwell in the 1860's. The nuclear forces were figured out in the 1920's and 30's, and they were tied to the electro-magnetic theory in 50's thru the 70's. Gravity has not been integrated into this theory. One of the problems with the particle theory of force is why do some things have mass (you, me, stars, planets, etc) while some things don't- light photons, neutrinos, and other exotic things which have been proven to exist but to the best of our measurement (which keeps getting better) do not have mass. For simplistic purposes, consider mass to be what we 'weigh' when we put something on a weight scale. Photons would not ever weigh anything, no matter how massive a planet or sun their weight was measured on. Gravity can affect these items but cannot not make them 'weigh' anything, or more accurately, have any mass. The Higgs Boson is a theoretical particle which would allow this type of behavior to occur. It is that particle which causes things to have mass, at least theoretically, by interacting with atoms or the components of atoms. Scientists were able to predict that IF the Higgs Boson existed it had to be found at a certain energy level. The Large Hadron Collider is the first man made detector capable of producing the energy required to find the Higgs Boson. If they found it within the energy range that theory predicted then it may finally allow physicists to tie ...


Higgs Boson creates Mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic.

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-07-02 12:35:42 PM  

Sid_6.7: MasterAdkins: someone's poor explanation for the ignorant masses.

Unlike everyone else, I see what you did there.

/+1


Aaagh! *forehead smack*
 
2012-07-02 12:36:04 PM  

Mose: You never know though. We found a good microscopy use for quantum tunnelling, for example. I feel like engineering may be catcing up, on a macro trend kind of scale, to the that bleeding edge.


Okay, yeah, point taken. Now that you mention it, MRI scanners are another good example. We barely understand what magnetic resonance really is at the quantum level, yet we have engineered an incredibly useful practical tool from it already.
 
2012-07-02 12:44:25 PM  

Sid_6.7: MasterAdkins: someone's poor explanation for the ignorant masses.

Unlike everyone else, I see what you did there.

/+1


I, too, was disappointed in the proportion of seers what he did there.
 
2012-07-02 12:52:14 PM  

charro: Alonjar: Everything you are, and the entire world you know, is held together by electromagnetism and gravity. Electromagnetism is what makes your atoms stick together directly to each other (or what repels them). When you try to push your hand through a brick wall, and the wall stops your hand, thats electromagnetism at work.

Close, but there are four fundamental forces in the universe and the Strong Force (or Strong interaction) is the one that keeps the atoms together:

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980127c.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction#Strong_interact io n

I think the discovery of the Higgs particle would allow us to manipulate mass and therefore gravity. Maybe to have gravity in spaceships?


If we could really manipulate gravity, we could make wormholes. That's more valuable than spaceships.
 
2012-07-02 12:53:45 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: ...the average person in Euclid's time benefited very little from him sitting around thinking amazing things. Applied engineering, like how to smelt iron was of far greater practical impact in the short term.


Architecture would like a word with you.
 
2012-07-02 01:07:49 PM  

charro: Alonjar: Everything you are, and the entire world you know, is held together by electromagnetism and gravity. Electromagnetism is what makes your atoms stick together directly to each other (or what repels them). When you try to push your hand through a brick wall, and the wall stops your hand, thats electromagnetism at work.

Close, but there are four fundamental forces in the universe and the Strong Force (or Strong interaction) is the one that keeps the atoms together:

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980127c.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction#Strong_interact io n

I think the discovery of the Higgs particle would allow us to manipulate mass and therefore gravity. Maybe to have gravity in spaceships?


Gravity in ships? Why not gravity-driven ships like in Asimov's Foundation series?
 
2012-07-02 01:11:13 PM  
This doesn't bode well for Robert Langdon.
 
2012-07-02 01:12:14 PM  

Max Awesome: [i42.photobucket.com image 549x1023]


lh3.googleusercontent.com

That looks like my Coonhound Sadie...why is she using the payphone to call Dog and not her cell phone?
 
2012-07-02 01:24:35 PM  
i14.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-02 01:51:22 PM  

TXEric: Max Awesome: [i42.photobucket.com image 400x533]

Hmm, first thought was you were in Texas, but checking your profile says a bit further north.

We have tons of those critters here - we call them "Texas Tans".


Really? Holy crap. I was hoping it was a fake horriblegiantspiderthing. *shudder*
 
2012-07-02 01:53:25 PM  

Nefarious: Pfft... let me know when they find a dog particle.


Your God wants kaets
 
2012-07-02 01:59:11 PM  

WhyteRaven74: GAT_00: The Daily Fail has decided to tell everyone what CERN is going to announce on Wednesday even though there's no leaked evidence that the Higgs bosun has been found.

Last year they announced that one of the LHC detectors indicated it found it to a three sigma level of certainty, that means the data indicates it's 99.7% certain they found it. Another detector produced data that was good for 4 sigma, that's better than 99.9 percent certainly. What they want, is five sigma. And no reason to think they haven't gotten there.


Yeah, but they're still going to have to write the article and then it will be reviewed by other physicists and then it will have to be re-produced at another location before it becomes part of the dogma.
 
2012-07-02 02:15:44 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: phrawgh: Why can't all these smart people get together and pass a federal budget?

Unfortunately, smart people have no inherent powers under the law just for being smart. Our democratic system requires that all citizens at least potentially have a voice in the process, and who gets to do what is fundamentally decided by popular vote. And it turns out that most citizens are not very smart, and don't elect smart people to do things like that.


And also, this isn't in the United States. The US is only one of MANY contributors to the LHC, and not the biggest by any means.
 
2012-07-02 02:20:46 PM  

MrCheeks: Max Awesome: [i42.photobucket.com image 549x1023]

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x584]

That looks like my Coonhound Sadie...why is she using the payphone to call Dog and not her cell phone?


I'm looking to buy a coonhound next year to protect my chickens. Would yours simply eat them, or are they the miracle I have read about?

/is serious
//email in profile
 
2012-07-02 02:21:45 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: So, why is it called the God particle?


www.jesterjournal.com

It's not... It's actually called "The Lloyd Particle"...
 
2012-07-02 02:47:37 PM  
i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-07-02 02:55:45 PM  

AmberDempsey: Empty Matchbook: Hello Homer...this...is God...

...frey Jones.

/Can't believe we got 1000 dog pics, and I'm first to think this. Or at least comment!

First thing I thought of when I read the headline.

/Classic episode.
//Gummi Venus - the rarest gummi of them all.
///Sweet sweet can-
///OK I'll stop now.


Swee-swee-swwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeet

Dunit: Empty Matchbook:

TheManofPA above did a "..frey Jones" comment.


Damn...cards on the table: I WAS just skimming.
 
2012-07-02 03:31:22 PM  
What about the Bosun chair?


i257.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-02 03:34:45 PM  
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't this particle be accurately described as a "graviton?"
 
2012-07-02 04:14:32 PM  

intelligent comment below: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't this particle be accurately described as a "graviton?"


Not quite. It attributes mass, not gravity as such.
 
2012-07-02 04:22:03 PM  

intelligent comment below: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't this particle be accurately described as a "graviton?"


I wonder of you could think of a graviton as an interaction between two different forces that contain Higgs-Bosun particles.

/I could be even more wrong.
 
2012-07-02 04:49:52 PM  
mobile.mmm.dk
 
2012-07-02 05:13:08 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-07-02 05:49:30 PM  

Wangiss: MrCheeks: Max Awesome: [i42.photobucket.com image 549x1023]

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x584]

That looks like my Coonhound Sadie...why is she using the payphone to call Dog and not her cell phone?

I'm looking to buy a coonhound next year to protect my chickens. Would yours simply eat them, or are they the miracle I have read about?

/is serious
//email in profile


Your email appears to not work...
 
2012-07-02 06:00:18 PM  

Benni K Rok: intelligent comment below: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't this particle be accurately described as a "graviton?"

I wonder of you could think of a graviton as an interaction between two different forces that contain Higgs-Bosun particles.

/I could be even more wrong.


This is way over my head, but it's my understanding that although both are theoretical particles related to interaction between matter, they are not the same thing, in that certain "must-have" properties of each are not the same. I could repeat the particulars here, but they probably wouldn't mean anything more to you than they do do me. One, however, is that the graviton should have no mass, while the Higgs should.
 
2012-07-02 06:02:35 PM  

santadog: MasterAdkins: Has nothing to do with god, just someone's poor explanation for the ignorant masses.

Hasn't that always been the case?


My understanding was that Higgs originally called it "that goddam particle" and the editors of the paper changed it...
 
2012-07-02 06:26:19 PM  

MrCheeks: Wangiss: MrCheeks: Max Awesome: [i42.photobucket.com image 549x1023]

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x584]

That looks like my Coonhound Sadie...why is she using the payphone to call Dog and not her cell phone?

I'm looking to buy a coonhound next year to protect my chickens. Would yours simply eat them, or are they the miracle I have read about?

/is serious
//email in profile

Your email appears to not work...


You figured it out!
 
2012-07-02 06:34:30 PM  
pshh - I read about this next week
 
2012-07-02 06:57:42 PM  

malaktaus: This has been reported in legitimate publications; why link to the Daily Fail? This isn't yet another story about a teacher farking a student or a girl with a mental disorder who will only eat pizza.


Because it's legible. I have farking Asperger's and I can't read some of the 'legitimate' geekspeak they publish. The average reader needs to be able to understand what's being said, or there's no point in printing it in an average newspaper. Save the scientific technical terms for the publication, and use layman's terms for general consumption.
 
2012-07-02 07:06:18 PM  

Wangiss: MrCheeks: Wangiss: MrCheeks: Max Awesome: [i42.photobucket.com image 549x1023]

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x584]

That looks like my Coonhound Sadie...why is she using the payphone to call Dog and not her cell phone?

I'm looking to buy a coonhound next year to protect my chickens. Would yours simply eat them, or are they the miracle I have read about?

/is serious
//email in profile

Your email appears to not work...

You figured it out!


A trained coonhound like a black and tan or bluetick won't eat your chickens, but they do have to be trained that they are off limits. They will do an excellent job guarding against raccoons (natch), possums, and foxes, and to a lesser extent things like weasels.

/Dad owned lots of coonhounds and we were quite rural
 
2012-07-02 07:28:48 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Benni K Rok: intelligent comment below: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't this particle be accurately described as a "graviton?"

I wonder of you could think of a graviton as an interaction between two different forces that contain Higgs-Bosun particles.

/I could be even more wrong.

This is way over my head, but it's my understanding that although both are theoretical particles related to interaction between matter, they are not the same thing, in that certain "must-have" properties of each are not the same. I could repeat the particulars here, but they probably wouldn't mean anything more to you than they do do me. One, however, is that the graviton should have no mass, while the Higgs should.


Probably, I'm just talking out of my ass. I hope I'm not right. That would scare me.
 
2012-07-02 08:33:47 PM  
img10.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-02 08:49:21 PM  
i.imgur.com
Bosun Higgs?
 
2012-07-02 10:48:29 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: the graviton should have no mass, while the Higgs should.


I can't remember whether it's been overtaken by events or not, but the guy who wrote This Elegant Universe (science writing explaining string theory for laypeople) said that string theory predicted that the graviton would have a spin of +/- 2. This is something that shouldn't be insanely difficult to test, provided that the particle exists long enough for some farker to look at the silly thing.

/there are a herd of buffalo that graze above an accelerator ring in Texas
//Of course, they're called the Higgs Bison
 
2012-07-02 10:52:26 PM  
God is dead... and here is the body to prove it.
And he's really light too!
 
2012-07-02 11:16:46 PM  
As with all media,
they simply like a good catchphrase.

Truth & proof is irrelevant.
 
2012-07-02 11:29:41 PM  
i296.photobucket.com

Hello
Yes, this is "Bob".
 
2012-07-03 12:32:32 AM  
i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-07-03 03:22:02 AM  
I predict a letdown.
 
2012-07-03 06:36:40 AM  

scalpod: [i296.photobucket.com image 90x132]

Hello
Yes, this is "Bob".


x me baby
 
2012-07-03 12:11:02 PM  
Is this the team out of Illinois? Damn, could you imagine the shiat hemorrhage the Europeans would have if the Americans got the Higgs-Boson before they did?
 
2012-07-03 01:09:03 PM  

Felgraf: El Morro: how we might be able to apply this information in a practical way? Obviously, it's going to take years and years and years of research and development, but, what are scientists talking about doing with this?

Would it be possible to manipulate the Higgs field? Are we talking about making near mass-less spacecraft for long distance travel? What's the potential here?

Well, to an extent, I'm not sure we know. It could turn out to be useless.

Think of it this way: When we first discovered electricity and magnetism (and even when we linked the two) they were... novelties. Fairly useless outside a VERY small range.

Or how the greeks figured out steam power, but didn't really use it for crap.

But now....

It's really hard to predict where discoveries will lead. That's one of the reasons we call it research, and not engineering. =)


Oh, I definitely agree with that. I'm just asking to see if anyone has done that mental exercise of trying to figure out what sort of potential there may be.

Let's say we find a way to manipulate the field. Could it be possible to reduce the HB field around a large object (say, a plane or car), and make it so it could be lifted and moved around by a single person? Or maybe increase the field around something to bump up its mass and make it particularly heavy?

Just spitballing here. I like these sorts of mental exercises.
 
2012-07-04 10:30:39 AM  
Well it's gonna go boom then so we'll have to go out and repopulate or something or another

encycl.opentopia.com
 
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