Ambivalence: EnviroDude: Or people with HSAs that now have to buy a product they don't want.

Ha ha! you know how I know you don't have an HSA? No one, short of some mental disability, would prefer an HSA over actual health insurance. HSAs are shiat.

THIS!

My employer offers me a choice between the two. And even though I'm 24, I still can't figure out why someone would pick something as worthless as an HSA over traditional more comprehensive insurance.

This is not a bookmark, it is something far deeper and more meaningful.

Mrtraveler01: Ambivalence: EnviroDude: Or people with HSAs that now have to buy a product they don't want.

Ha ha! you know how I know you don't have an HSA? No one, short of some mental disability, would prefer an HSA over actual health insurance. HSAs are shiat.

THIS!

My employer offers me a choice between the two. And even though I'm 24, I still can't figure out why someone would pick something as worthless as an HSA over traditional more comprehensive insurance.

My husband's work moved from insurance to HSAs a couple years ago. It was the first time ever I felt compelled to say "fark this shiat! I'll put you on my insurance".

Now that I'm getting laid off later this year I"m hoping the law will compell his company to offer actual insurance again but I'm not holding my breath.

I had a wife of a high school friend who was rambling on about how her business might as well close now thanks to these new laws and that Obama wanted her on welfare. Another friend pointed out that there wouldn't be any particular impact since her company size is so small and it could be beneficial to her in the long run. The response was simply, "yeah, but what about when the death panels start then."

miss diminutive: Very informative. Nice to see some information without the usual warrrrgaarrrbl.

on fark even

Too bad that's way too much text for a Republican to have read to them.

BMulligan: I can't believe there are people who still respond to EnviroDerp. I understand the notion that it is sometimes necessary to respond to trolls to counter disinformation, but nothing that neanderfark says could possibly be taken seriously by anyone. There's no need to "refute" his logorrhea, because it's self-refuting.

Yes, but I am bored.

EnviroDude: No. Let's say that you are self employed as a government contractor. The years have been good. Good enough thay you over qualify. Suddenly, the government cancels your contract. Now you have to decide what you are going to pay for. Because you made to much money year to date, you fail to qualify for assistance.

So, someone has made something like $45,000 through a fraction of the year and now they are destitute?

How did their contract deal with early termination?

jjorsett: Decide not to buy health insurance? Tax. Have a "Cadillac" high-cost health plan? Tax. Have capital gains or dividends? Tax. Use a tanning booth? Tax. Use your employer's healthcare Flexible Spending Account? Tax. Itemize your medical deductions? Tax. Are you an insurance provider? Tax. Manufacturer of medical devices? Tax.

Good thing I don't have or do any of those things then.

But I'm sure Obamacare will be bad for me somehow for some reason or another right?

Ringshadow: My brother just found a provision in it that, supposedly, allows the RFID chipping of humans.

But anyway, yes, marvelous breakdown in very simple language.

oh good, it will make them much easierfor the super wealthy to hunt them for sport

gingerjet: I totally get the confusion over health plans - I work for a health insurance company. But HSA's aren't "worthless". In general - HSA's are cheaper, the savings account is not tied to your employer, and its tax deductible. If your health expenses are low - HSA's saves money and gives you more insight into what the health expenses really are.

The only benefit i see is that it's cheaper. But as a result, you get less coverage which will leave you SOL if something unexpected does happen to you.

Which is why I'd rather not risk it and gamble my life on it just to save some money.

IronTom: First, after Obama is re-elected, they TAX the everloving shiat out of the middle class

Look at how stupid you are.

Tahs4Evar: Now can any American give me a similarly short and to the point explanation of why this is so vigorously opposed?

The biggest reason is because american politics have shifted so far to the right that moderately conservative views are seen as radical. GOP ideas from 15-20 years ago are seen as wildly liberal in our current political environment.

That's really what we have.

Combine that with a dangerously uninformed or misinformed populace that is highly partisan because of a bad economic situation combined with two wars and a massive terrorist attack that have caused serious distrust and fear when considering federal and state government issues on top of the ever growing social issues forcing bigotry and racism to bubble back up to the surface....well, there's no stopping it.

I blame 24/7 cable news.

EnviroDude: vpb: EnviroDude: Let me get this straight . . .

We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a... President who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!

What the h*ll could possibly go wrong?'

Donald Trump

No you didn't get it strait. Only financially irresponsible people get fined. Ask a five year old to explain it to you.

You mean self employed types that might have to choose between food or insurance. Or people with HSAs that now have to buy a product they don't want.

Please continue

You already got busted in this thread for lying. Stop digging, jackwagon.

jjorsett: Decide not to buy health insurance? Tax. Have a "Cadillac" high-cost health plan? Tax. Have capital gains or dividends? Tax. Use a tanning booth? Tax. Use your employer's healthcare Flexible Spending Account? Tax. Itemize your medical deductions? Tax. Are you an insurance provider? Tax. Manufacturer of medical devices? Tax.

All of these apply to people with sub-$250K incomes, the last two indirectly thru higher prices.

Decide to have kids? tax credits. Decide to go back to school? Tax credits.

I could go on and on. Tax policy has always been used to INFLUENCE (as opposed to control, I don't want you mistaking the two) behavior of people and businesses. They tax certain things they want people to do less of, like smoking and drinking. They give tax credits for certain things they want you to do more of, like going to school or buying energy efficient appliances.

That is how it works. Now some of the "taxes" you listed are not real. If you have to pull stuff out of your fevered imagination...well...maybe you should just have a seat over there and argue with yourself.

I like the 'if states can do it for cheaper and get approval.. good luck with that'

gingerjet: If your health expenses are low - HSA's saves money

I think that's the key right there. While you are young and lucky and don't have any major medical expenses then HSAs are great. But for the few people who aren't so lucky it sucks balls.

jjorsett: Mrtraveler01: jjorsett: Decide not to buy health insurance? Tax. Have a "Cadillac" high-cost health plan? Tax. Have capital gains or dividends? Tax. Use a tanning booth? Tax. Use your employer's healthcare Flexible Spending Account? Tax. Itemize your medical deductions? Tax. Are you an insurance provider? Tax. Manufacturer of medical devices? Tax.

Good thing I don't have or do any of those things then.

But I'm sure Obamacare will be bad for me somehow for some reason or another right?

In other words, it doesn't affect you so screw everyone else? Most of these taxes are not going to affect me either because I've structured my affairs to avoid them, but I don't take your callous attitude. I actually care that my fellow citizens who can't do what I've done are going to get clobbered.

And which fellow citizens are those? The one who tan every day?

jjorsett: In other words, it doesn't affect you so screw everyone else? Most of these taxes are not going to affect me either because I've structured my affairs to avoid them, but I don't take your callous attitude. I actually care that my fellow citizens who can't do what I've done are going to get clobbered.

I love that you are using this argument when attacking the taxes created when attempting to provide health care to a country's citizens. Just enough irony to be a good subtle troll.

But, stupid enough to make me think that you're an idiot.

jjorsett: n other words, it doesn't affect you so screw everyone else?

It's the Tea Party motto right? ;)

I actually care that my fellow citizens who can't do what I've done are going to get clobbered.

LOL, sure you do. With this one issue, you and your ilk actually give a damn about your fellow citizens. But when it comes to things like access to health care and education, etc. it's all about what's in it for you amright?

gingerjet: I totally get the confusion over health plans - I work for a health insurance company. But HSA's aren't "worthless". In general - HSA's are cheaper, the savings account is not tied to your employer, and its tax deductible. If your health expenses are low - HSA's saves money and gives you more insight into what the health expenses really are.

/the confusion over plans is largely due to fark'd up government rules
//obamacare will neither improve or make this worse

HSAs may not be worthless, but they are markedly inferior to health insurance. That's why it's so much cheaper. When you have a company that offers ONLY HSAs for its employees "If your health expenses are low" is never going to be a given among all employees meaning someone is going to get screwed. HSAs are not an adequate substitution, in general.

Sure, HSAs may be fine if you only have to deal with the occasional checkup or doctor visit, but good luck to you if you develop a medical condition. Even a moderate medical condition can be prohibitively expensive under an HSA.

And I always hate it when people use the argument that the money saved by going HSA could pay for additional medical expenses. The money saved by having an HSA is almost never actually SAVED, it's almost always spent on something else.

Ambivalence: And I always hate it when people use the argument that the money saved by going HSA could pay for additional medical expenses. The money saved by having an HSA is almost never actually SAVED, it's almost always spent on something else.

Well duh we're Americans!

Since when do we actually SAVE our money?

/And this is a bipartisan thing that both conservatives and liberals do

jjorsett: I wouldn't trust George Bush or Ronald Reagan with that responsibility either, and they were at least competent former governors, as opposed to the empty suit now in the White House.

Aw damn.

I thought today was "Obama is an evil dictator that Hitler wishes he could be" day.

/needs a new calandar

bulldg4life: jjorsett: In other words, it doesn't affect you so screw everyone else? Most of these taxes are not going to affect me either because I've structured my affairs to avoid them, but I don't take your callous attitude. I actually care that my fellow citizens who can't do what I've done are going to get clobbered.

I love that you are using this argument when attacking the taxes created when attempting to provide health care to a country's citizens. Just enough irony to be a good subtle troll.

But, stupid enough to make me think that you're an idiot.

$5 says the irony will be lost on him.

/Not an actual bet

jjorsett: No, what it boils down to is the majority of the people don't believe government could organize a ham sandwich, much less handle something as serious as controlling and regulating all of health care.

Yeah.

America sucks. They can't do anything other countries can. Third-world losers.

/this message brought to you by 30 years of GOP propaganda.

I am impressed how you two coordinated the shift change for trolling this thread. Why, people hardly even notice which tard is throwing shiat against the wall.

jjorsett: Pincy: jjorsett: Mrtraveler01: jjorsett: Decide not to buy health insurance? Tax. Have a "Cadillac" high-cost health plan? Tax. Have capital gains or dividends? Tax. Use a tanning booth? Tax. Use your employer's healthcare Flexible Spending Account? Tax. Itemize your medical deductions? Tax. Are you an insurance provider? Tax. Manufacturer of medical devices? Tax.

Good thing I don't have or do any of those things then.

But I'm sure Obamacare will be bad for me somehow for some reason or another right?

In other words, it doesn't affect you so screw everyone else? Most of these taxes are not going to affect me either because I've structured my affairs to avoid them, but I don't take your callous attitude. I actually care that my fellow citizens who can't do what I've done are going to get clobbered.

And which fellow citizens are those? The one who tan every day?

If you can't be bothered to read and understand my point, even if you disagree with it, please just butt out so that you don't embarrass yourself.

Like I said before, you only care about your citizens when they are negatively impacted by a policy you don't like.

If they're negatively impacted by a policy that you do like, you wouldn't give a flying fark about them.

Why do you think the joke motto of the Tea Party is: "Got mine. Fark you"?

jjorsett: Pincy: jjorsett: Mrtraveler01: jjorsett: Decide not to buy health insurance? Tax. Have a "Cadillac" high-cost health plan? Tax. Have capital gains or dividends? Tax. Use a tanning booth? Tax. Use your employer's healthcare Flexible Spending Account? Tax. Itemize your medical deductions? Tax. Are you an insurance provider? Tax. Manufacturer of medical devices? Tax.

Good thing I don't have or do any of those things then.

But I'm sure Obamacare will be bad for me somehow for some reason or another right?

In other words, it doesn't affect you so screw everyone else? Most of these taxes are not going to affect me either because I've structured my affairs to avoid them, but I don't take your callous attitude. I actually care that my fellow citizens who can't do what I've done are going to get clobbered.

And which fellow citizens are those? The one who tan every day?

If you can't be bothered to read and understand my point, even if you disagree with it, please just butt out so that you don't embarrass yourself.

Oh, I understand your point loud an clear. Obviously you didn't understand mine because you apparently don't get the joke.

jjorsett: Because Tea Party opposers are desperately thrashing around in an effort to find a way to marginalize a grass-roots movement they hate and fear? Just a guess.

Grass roots? LOL

A movement that didn't gain any traction until corporate interests and right-wing media got behind it does NOT make it a grassroots movement.

jjorsett: Because Tea Party opposers are desperately thrashing around in an effort to find a way to marginalize a grass-roots movement they hate and fear? Just a guess.

So Fox News is a grass-roots movement now?

jjorsett: Ambivalence: That is how it works. Now some of the "taxes" you listed are not real. If you have to pull stuff out of your fevered imagination...well...maybe you should just have a seat over there and argue with yourself.

Which ones "are not real"?

There is not a separate tax for "itemizing your medical deductions". You may end up paying more by itemizing your medical deductions but that is not the same thing as there being an "itemized medical deductions tax". If you pay less by NOT itemizing then DON'T. People like to think that everything that comes out of your pocket to the government is a tax. It's not. Fines are not taxes. Fees are not taxes. False equivalence is false.