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(Yahoo)   2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500. Winner to the left, sane reasonable discussion to the right   (autos.yahoo.com) divider line 128
    More: Interesting, Ford Shelby GT500, Motor Trend, Camaro, camaro zl1, Cadillacs, school zones, SPD, back end  
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4946 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Jul 2012 at 2:40 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-01 02:53:04 PM  
Go banana!
 
2012-07-01 02:55:06 PM  
I thought Shelby died.

He must be the Tupac of the automotive industry.
 
2012-07-01 03:00:01 PM  
Shelby GT500: Weight Distribution: 57/43 %

I see that Ford still hasn't fixed this problem after decades of work. Damn, Ford, get with the program! At least the ZL1 *TRIES* to be evenly balanced.
 
2012-07-01 03:03:47 PM  
the Ford is cheaper and will smoke the ZL1 in a straight line and hang pretty tight in the twisties all with a live rear axle. Sorry GM lost again.

\ Ford FTMFW
\\ Didn't read link.
 
2012-07-01 03:17:55 PM  
Both are too heavy. Let me bring up a relevant discussion from "The Restaurant At the End of the Universe" by Douglas Adams:

The next one was a big one and thirty yards long - a coach built limoship and obviously designed with one aim in mind, that of making the beholder sick with envy. The paintwork and accessory detail clearly said "Not only am I rich enough to afford this ship, I am also rich enough not to take it seriously." It was wonderfully hideous.

"Just look at it," said Zaphod, "multi-cluster quark drive, perspulex running boards. Got to be a Lazlar Lyricon custom job."

He examined every inch.

"Yes," he said, "look, the infra-pink lizard emblem on the neutrino cowling. Lazlar's trade mark. The man has no shame."

"I was passed by one of these mothers once, out by the Axel Nebula," said Ford, "I was going flat out and this thing just strolled past me, star drive hardly ticking over. Just incredible."

Zaphod whistled appreciatively.

"Ten seconds later", said Ford, "it smashed straight into the third moon of Jaglan Beta."

"Yeah, right?"

"Amazing looking ship though. Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow."
 
2012-07-01 03:19:06 PM  
I will sum up the article

"The mustang gets better gas mileage, was faster in the 1/4, faster on the track even after "serious (brake) fade" and easy to drive without computer assistance, but we expected the car to be worse and the ride was bumpy sometimes, so the camaro wins!"
 
2012-07-01 03:31:44 PM  
TLDR

Mustang: Faster on the strip, faster on the track, The better "performance" car, Cheaper.
Camaro: Better everyday driver, Effectively close enough to the mustang in performance that most people will never notice.

Winner: Camaro

I cant say I agree with their idea of choosing the better street car, but god damn the camaro is farking ugly. I would choose the mustang any day of the week.
 
2012-07-01 03:36:35 PM  

tacos813: I will sum up the article

"The mustang gets better gas mileage, was faster in the 1/4, faster on the track even after "serious (brake) fade" and easy to drive without computer assistance, but we expected the car to be worse and the ride was bumpy sometimes, so the camaro wins!"


mustang gets better mileage only on the highway 16/19 camaro 15/24 mustang
the Mustang was faster in the 1/4
Faster on the track for the first lap and then faded quickly "By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. "
I don't see where it was easier to drive but they did say that he was faster with it off. He also said he would prefer the Camaro on the track ""I think I'd go Camaro just because of the braking confidence," Pobst summarized."

And their summary was
"We're staggered by how good the GT500 is, but unless it's on a drag strip, the ZL1 is just a little bit better.'
 
2012-07-01 03:39:18 PM  

Axel_Gear: TLDR

Mustang: Faster on the strip, faster on the track, The better "performance" car, Cheaper.
Camaro: Better everyday driver, Effectively close enough to the mustang in performance that most people will never notice.

Winner: Camaro

I cant say I agree with their idea of choosing the better street car, but god damn the camaro is farking ugly. I would choose the mustang any day of the week.


On the base price the mustang is $900 cheaper
Also as tested the mustang was much more expensive at $64,770 (the Camaro was $56,365 )
 
2012-07-01 03:46:45 PM  
The Camaro reminds me of those terrible Transformers movies. Advantage: Mustang.
 
2012-07-01 03:55:32 PM  
Ford went all out with the airbags, damn.

Dual front, front side, f/r side, front head, f/r head, front curtain, f/r curtain, front side/head; f/r side/head, front knee, driver knee, passenger knee, pedestrian
 
2012-07-01 04:04:45 PM  

tacos813: Ford went all out with the airbags, damn.

Dual front, front side, f/r side, front head, f/r head, front curtain, f/r curtain, front side/head; f/r side/head, front knee, driver knee, passenger knee, pedestrian


When you wreck, the car turns into a giant bubble and promptly vanishes completely
 
2012-07-01 04:20:48 PM  
So to recap, the Mustang is quicker, faster, lighter, handles better and gets better gas mileage.Winner, Camaro.

Sounds about right. I'm honestly surprised the BMW didn't win.
 
2012-07-01 04:20:53 PM  
Rarely has one picture:

l1.yimg.com

Better illustrated the utter lack of distinctiveness and sheer ugliness of modern muscle cars. They look like the
exact same graceless hunk of plastic and aluminum.
 
2012-07-01 04:28:04 PM  

Tellingthem: Axel_Gear: TLDR

Mustang: Faster on the strip, faster on the track, The better "performance" car, Cheaper.
Camaro: Better everyday driver, Effectively close enough to the mustang in performance that most people will never notice.

Winner: Camaro

I cant say I agree with their idea of choosing the better street car, but god damn the camaro is farking ugly. I would choose the mustang any day of the week.

On the base price the mustang is $900 cheaper
Also as tested the mustang was much more expensive at $64,770 (the Camaro was $56,365 )


Ah, reading comprehension fail on my part. I did forget to include that the mustang gets slightly better gas mileage.
 
2012-07-01 04:29:20 PM  
just what the world needs: more cars for poorly endowed, undersexed cavemen.

/not a fan of most exotics/supercars either
 
2012-07-01 04:31:55 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: They look like the exact same graceless hunk of plastic and aluminum.


I have to assume you have that weird Aspberger's inability to recognize people's faces and distinct shapes. Either that, or there's something wrong with your video card. They look nothing alike, other than both being "car-shaped".

That said, huge advantage goes to the Camaro. At any given stoplight around here, there will be at least 2 Mustangs. They're almost always being driven by young girls. If the Mustang were a movie, it would be Twilight.
 
2012-07-01 04:32:32 PM  

majestic: So to recap, the Mustang is quicker, faster, lighter, handles better and gets better gas mileage.Winner, Camaro.

Sounds about right. I'm honestly surprised the BMW didn't win.


Had it been a review by car and driver I would have expected nothing less.
 
2012-07-01 04:33:20 PM  

dumbobruni: just what the world needs: more cars for poorly endowed


Yeah, I was thinking about random guys' junk as well. Nothing wrong with it, and you can ignore anyone who says otherwise.
 
2012-07-01 04:37:28 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Rarely has one picture:

[l1.yimg.com image 630x395]

Better illustrated the utter lack of distinctiveness and sheer ugliness of modern muscle cars. They look like the
exact same graceless hunk of plastic and aluminum.


Like women, it only matters where the lumps and humps are.
 
2012-07-01 04:49:43 PM  
I've driven a shelby (ok, it was a 2010 or '11, not as fast as the current one but till insanely, absurdly, uselessly, big-shiat-eating-grin-causingly fast). the idea of an even faster version strikes me as olympic-grade silliness (and if anyone here has one of either, I'll be an impartial judge *and* leave your clutch intact. Mostly.)

I've sat in a camaro, though not driven one. I didn't like the style, and even being a tall and skinny guy, the visibility was akin to a Piper Cherokee - limited in the front, worse in the back, and not much better on the sides. The numbers on it make me think I'd crap my pants while laughing maniacally and throttle-steering to leverage the few decent bits of visibility out the drivers seat, though. They're both a little rich for my budget, but not my imagination.

But like I said, if anyone wants an impartial judgement of either car on the NW side of Houston, I'll render a fair verdict. And provide a case of your favorite suds with which to drown your sorrows or reward your excellent taste.
 
2012-07-01 04:53:04 PM  

Tourney3p0: DjangoStonereaver: They look like the exact same graceless hunk of plastic and aluminum.

I have to assume you have that weird Aspberger's inability to recognize people's faces and distinct shapes. Either that, or there's something wrong with your video card. They look nothing alike, other than both being "car-shaped".

That said, huge advantage goes to the Camaro. At any given stoplight around here, there will be at least 2 Mustangs. They're almost always being driven by young girls. If the Mustang were a movie, it would be Twilight.


The original Mustang and Camaro were quite distinctive from each other:

mustangspory.com

www.utahstories.com

Different sizes, different body shapes, very different looking cars.

The only real difference between their current incarnations is that the 'stang is slightly more hump backed, and
the grill is more oval shaped. That's about it.
 
2012-07-01 05:35:41 PM  

Axel_Gear: Mustang: Faster on the strip, faster on the track, The better "performance" car, Cheaper.
Camaro: Better everyday driver, Effectively close enough to the mustang in performance that most people will never notice.


What sort of bonehead would buy either of these cars at $55k if it was their everyday driver? I could see buying something like these if it was a second car just for fun, but when every other car in the price range is infinitely superior to live with every day, why on earth would you buy either of these as your daily?

I had a Mustang when it was fun and cheap. It was the best car I ever owned. But I'd have to cut out about 90% of my braincells before I thought it was a good idea to drive one as my daily car for the price they're asking for these types of cars now.

I need to drive to work on the highway in traffic, not the left lane on the drag strip. That's just a crazy thing to buy for anybody with a normal commute...
 
2012-07-01 05:39:51 PM  

tacos813: Ford went all out with the airbags, damn.

Dual front, front side, f/r side, front head, f/r head, front curtain, f/r curtain, front side/head; f/r side/head, front knee, driver knee, passenger knee, pedestrian


So, it turns into a giant cannoli?

i291.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-01 05:43:47 PM  
I like this. I have absolutely nothing to back that up. It's probably worse than every other car in every measurable respect.

But I just like it.

i634.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-01 05:48:00 PM  

Tourney3p0: dumbobruni: just what the world needs: more cars for poorly endowed

Yeah, I was thinking about random guys' junk as well. Nothing wrong with it, and you can ignore anyone who says otherwise.


this from the guy that gets offended by women driving cars.
 
2012-07-01 06:30:56 PM  

Splinshints: Axel_Gear: Mustang: Faster on the strip, faster on the track, The better "performance" car, Cheaper.
Camaro: Better everyday driver, Effectively close enough to the mustang in performance that most people will never notice.

What sort of bonehead would buy either of these cars at $55k if it was their everyday driver? I could see buying something like these if it was a second car just for fun, but when every other car in the price range is infinitely superior to live with every day, why on earth would you buy either of these as your daily?

I had a Mustang when it was fun and cheap. It was the best car I ever owned. But I'd have to cut out about 90% of my braincells before I thought it was a good idea to drive one as my daily car for the price they're asking for these types of cars now.

I need to drive to work on the highway in traffic, not the left lane on the drag strip. That's just a crazy thing to buy for anybody with a normal commute...


Plus, if it's your second car anyway, $55k still buys a pretty decent classic muscle car (one that will most likely retain most, if not all, of its value if you buy smart).
 
2012-07-01 06:48:56 PM  

StopLurkListen: I like this. I have absolutely nothing to back that up. It's probably worse than every other car in every measurable respect.

But I just like it.

[i634.photobucket.com image 629x301]


That is almost identical to mine. I like that it looks like a classic car, like the original challenger. The only the the Camaro and Mustang retain from their origin is the name; if you were to call it anything else, no one would make any sort of connection.
 
2012-07-01 06:53:52 PM  
media.caranddriver.com

Way cheaper, smaller, quicker, more efficient and probably a lot more fun to drive.
 
2012-07-01 06:56:59 PM  
Shelby commin' around the mountain when she comes...

/the cobra has always been a dream car for me, groaning up.
//only seen two or three, both were metallic blue with a silver stripe down the hood and onto the spoiler.
 
2012-07-01 07:09:10 PM  

verbaltoxin: [media.caranddriver.com image 429x262]

Way cheaper, smaller, quicker, more efficient and probably a lot more fun to drive.


Not quicker, not even close..
 
2012-07-01 07:12:35 PM  

majestic: So to recap, the Mustang is quicker, faster, lighter, handles better and gets better gas mileage.Winner, Camaro.

Sounds about right. I'm honestly surprised the BMW didn't win.


ZL1 produced a BMW troucing Nurburgring time, don't know about the gt500, but the Boss 302 has done the same
 
2012-07-01 07:17:02 PM  
Remember folks, when racing your american-made muscle cars, it is best to abstain from sex with relatives for at least 24hours prior in order to maintain maximum concentration and vehicle control
 
2012-07-01 07:18:22 PM  
Design wise i'd have to go with the Mustang, even if i likely can't drive it

The way the camaro is laid out, and the visibility out of it would make me leery of driving the damn thing

I saw footage of the camaros at a track vs daytona prototypes, the camaros made it look like their drivers had little slits to see the course from
 
2012-07-01 07:23:25 PM  

verbaltoxin: [media.caranddriver.com image 429x262]

Way cheaper, smaller, quicker, more efficient and probably a lot more fun to drive.


If only someone would match up all these cars

toss in the BRZ's twin, and the challenger
 
2012-07-01 07:29:54 PM  
Torion!: groaning up

Paging Dr. Freud.
 
2012-07-01 07:45:13 PM  
I bought my '07 Charger from a Ford dealership. All of the salesmen kept giving me this major stinkeye as I walked through the showroom, past all those gleaming rows of ricer-inspired new gen Mustangs.

I get decent fuel economy, good handling, and since it's not the rally version, I don't attract traffic cops like a swarm of gnats everywhere I go. It drives the way the original Mustang was meant to. The engine only makes itself noticed when I choose to floor it.

/BOSS 429 is the only Mustang I would ever even consider
 
2012-07-01 07:59:22 PM  
Motor Trend? Seriously?
 
2012-07-01 08:07:15 PM  

verbaltoxin: [media.caranddriver.com image 429x262]

Way cheaper, smaller,


And that's all.
 
2012-07-01 08:21:05 PM  

verbaltoxin: Way cheaper, smaller, quicker, more efficient and probably a lot more fun to drive.


Quicker? [citation needed]

Also, the BRZ/FR-S use Prius tires. lolfail

Part of buying a brand new car shouldn't mean having to buy new tires before you even take it off the goddamn lot.

Regardless, did you have anything other than apples to compare to the article's oranges, or are you just being dumb?
 
2012-07-01 08:24:48 PM  

Splinshints: Quicker? [citation needed]


You know, this would be a wonderful time to be able to pull a top gear style challenge

sadly I'm too damn broke and am not a television personality
 
2012-07-01 09:14:38 PM  
Jeremy Clarkson: "They're both utter rubbish!"

/out of the way
 
2012-07-01 09:15:43 PM  
Both cars are techinically amazing, there isn't a soul between the two of them much less individually. Sad what we call "sports cars" lately.
 
2012-07-01 09:30:26 PM  

Tellingthem: Also as tested the mustang was much more expensive at $64,770 (the Camaro was $56,365 )


I just did the biggest spit-take reading that...

cache.jalopnik.com

Cost in the US is $39,203.12 base price. By the time you throw a buttload of the wiz-bang go-fast 'options' on it you're still going to come in well below 60 grand.

I'll take the car that costs less, goes faster, stops better, and corners harder... And throw the cash I save at an old pickup to drive when it's raining.
 
2012-07-01 09:54:51 PM  

moike: Cost in the US is $39,203.12 base price.


Err.. from the Atom website:

2012 Ariel Atom 3 - 2.4L
Standard Specification starting at $52,480.00

You *are* talking about the Atom, right? Is your figure some kind of wholesale price?
 
2012-07-01 09:55:58 PM  

NightSteel: moike: Cost in the US is $39,203.12 base price.

Err.. from the Atom website:

2012 Ariel Atom 3 - 2.4L
Standard Specification starting at $52,480.00

You *are* talking about the Atom, right? Is your figure some kind of wholesale price?


Nobody "in the game" pays retail. Nobody.
 
2012-07-01 09:58:18 PM  

NightSteel: moike: Cost in the US is $39,203.12 base price.

Err.. from the Atom website:

2012 Ariel Atom 3 - 2.4L
Standard Specification starting at $52,480.00

You *are* talking about the Atom, right? Is your figure some kind of wholesale price?


maybe he saw the uk price and plopped a dollar sign in front of it
 
2012-07-01 10:04:53 PM  
Nothing better than American muscle cars, I don't care what anybody says.
 
2012-07-01 10:06:48 PM  

moike: Tellingthem: Also as tested the mustang was much more expensive at $64,770 (the Camaro was $56,365 )

I just did the biggest spit-take reading that...

[cache.jalopnik.com image 640x305]

Cost in the US is $39,203.12 base price. By the time you throw a buttload of the wiz-bang go-fast 'options' on it you're still going to come in well below 60 grand.

I'll take the car that costs less, goes faster, stops better, and corners harder... And throw the cash I save at an old pickup to drive when it's raining.


You're leaving out the cost of annual facelifts to keep you from looking like droopy dog after driving it on a regular basis:

web1.holidayhype.co.uk
 
2012-07-01 10:09:32 PM  

consider this: Nothing better than American muscle cars, I don't care what anybody says.


Which is why we can just leave out the Challenger out of the discussion, since it is built in Canuckistan.
 
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