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(Miami Herald)   It wouldn't be July 1st in Florida without ignoring the State's constitution and teeing off the ACLU, chiropractors, school boards and probably the Courts   (miamiherald.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, ACLU, florida, school boards, rulemaking process, online learning, constitutions, voyeurism, Rick Scott  
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9811 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2012 at 2:27 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-01 04:56:56 PM  

jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.


THIS. And to answer the question that Kumana raises about what would they do, they'd do something based on farking sciene and anatomy, not on quakery.

Here it is: chiropractic is nonsense, pure and simple. Some chiropractors may do things analogous
to what might be done by a LMT or a PT and that's what helps, not the chiropractic "medicine".

/PTs have enabled me to keep working despite having badly messed up my back 40+ years ago.
 
2012-07-01 05:00:35 PM  

Gough: jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.

THIS. And to answer the question that Kumana raises about what would they do, they'd do something based on farking sciene and anatomy, not on quakery.

Here it is: chiropractic is nonsense, pure and simple. Some chiropractors may do things analogous
to what might be done by a LMT or a PT and that's what helps, not the chiropractic "medicine".

/PTs have enabled me to keep working despite having badly messed up my back 40+ years ago.


Okay, let's go there.

What would an LMT or PT do?

What is the "chiropractic medicine" that is quackery?

If a chiropractor does exclusively things that an LMT or PT would do, are they a quack?
 
2012-07-01 05:04:42 PM  
Mind you, I mean if the chiro does a subset of the things an LMT or PT would do. i'm not suggesting that a chiro does all the things an LMT or PT does.
 
2012-07-01 05:25:56 PM  
and by subset i mean a smaller subset, not the subset equal to teh set.
 
2012-07-01 05:31:15 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Gough: jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.

THIS. And to answer the question that Kumana raises about what would they do, they'd do something based on farking sciene and anatomy, not on quakery.

Here it is: chiropractic is nonsense, pure and simple. Some chiropractors may do things analogous
to what might be done by a LMT or a PT and that's what helps, not the chiropractic "medicine".

/PTs have enabled me to keep working despite having badly messed up my back 40+ years ago.

Okay, let's go there.

What would an LMT or PT do?

What is the "chiropractic medicine" that is quackery?

If a chiropractor does exclusively things that an LMT or PT would do, are they a quack?


It's called "subluxation theory", and it's the basis of chiropractic.
 
2012-07-01 05:57:05 PM  
Article is a little long, but from what I scanned it sounds like the author would place my chiropractor in the "competent" column. Lucky me.

Interesting stuff, I have bookmarked it.

As far as the idea that people need continuous chiropractic adjustments because they will get various types of illnesses if their vertebra are misaligned, this has not ever been suggested to me. My experience was that I had some serious back and neck pain, saw the chiro a few times, and stopped seeing the chiro when my problem was fixed. Neither of the guys I saw told me "okay now, you'll have to come back every week for the rest of your life or else your nervous system will make various parts of your body sick".
 
2012-07-01 06:29:51 PM  

FoxholeAtheist: It's called "subluxation theory", and it's the basis of chiropractic.


Every "chiropractor" I've known has rejected subluxation theory on the basis that it's pure bunk. They go through the motions because people who would never dream of visiting a physical therapist will happily go to a chiropractor, so that's where the business is. They tend to perform the same therapy as actual PTs (I believe all but maybe one of the ones I've known were licensed PTs), have the same training, go to the same conferences, and so on. I've never really tried to get to know any woowoo whackos, though, my fiancee is the one who knows all of the astrologers and homeopaths. I don't ask about them, but as far as I know she doesn't know any chiropractors like that, aside from one guy who calls himself one (whether licensed or not, I don't know), works out of his home, and prescribes homeopathic remedies.

Not to mention that there are plenty of bad PTs out there, too - worker's comp and disability insurance fraud is rampant, not just by employees, but by incompetent PTs who do jack shiat for patients while collecting payments.
 
2012-07-01 07:01:01 PM  
The chiro just down the road from my house advertises on a billboard out front that you should bring your kids in for chiropractic adjustments to fix ear infections. This is by no means uncommon.
 
2012-07-01 07:18:02 PM  
FoxholeAtheist:

We get it, some chiropractors are frauds. You made your point.
 
2012-07-01 07:35:17 PM  
Apparently you don't get it. This is not some offshoot bunch of whackjob chiros that have taken the basically sound teachings of chiropractic schools and turned it "bad"; this is a group of mainstream chiros regurgitating what they learned in school, which is pure pseudoscience. The non-scam chiros are the exceptions, not the rule. In chiropractic schools they teach that all diseases are due to these "subluxations", and that with proper adjustment, chiros can cure all sorts of non-musculo-skeletal conditions. On top of that, as they're taught to not trust science-based medicine in school, they tend to also promote homeopathy, anti-vaccination, and all sorts of related woo-woo shiat. The entirety of chiropractic "theory" is 100% bullshiat, and until they denounce "subluxation theory", it will always be so. Of course, they are unlikely to do that as that would make them little better than PT's, and they would have to stop calling each other "Doctor" so-and-so.
 
2012-07-01 07:46:21 PM  

FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.


THIS. And allowing them to make the determination on whether high school kids who have had concussions can return to play is completely asinine. Just really, really stupid.
 
2012-07-01 09:45:38 PM  
Seriously US of A, chirocrapters can currently asses you for an insurance claim.

/the more I learn about American health care the more I doubt you guys have long for this world
//well, the first world at least
 
2012-07-01 11:45:37 PM  
Can you farkers please stop posting Miami Herald links?? I'm not going to log in to read that shiat. And deleting cookies doesn't help.
 
2012-07-01 11:46:59 PM  

foxyshadis: Every "chiropractor" I've known has rejected subluxation theory on the basis that it's pure bunk


That's crazy talk, because subluxation theory is the core of chiropractic college. Use Google to search the site of any chiropractic college and you'll find oodles of pages and papers discussing subluxation.
 
2012-07-02 02:15:17 AM  

elchip: foxyshadis: Every "chiropractor" I've known has rejected subluxation theory on the basis that it's pure bunk

That's crazy talk, because subluxation theory is the core of chiropractic college. Use Google to search the site of any chiropractic college and you'll find oodles of pages and papers discussing subluxation.


I explained the reasoning: For better or worse, people are more likely to go to someone who calls themselves a chiropractor than a physical therapist. Among the general public, they actually have a better reputation than doctors and therapists, which have lately begun to be perceived as gouging their clients for little additional benefit. One I know didn't know before he paid his tuition that it was so hocus-pocus, but by then he might as well finish than throw it all away. So they go to the silly school, they regurgitate what they know is bunk and get their license, then set up shop using accepted modern methods of physical therapy and call it chiropracty.

That's why there's so much confusion about good and bad chiros, because the name has undeserved cachet. (And unfortunately these types reinforce that.) Yet another example of in theory vs in practice.
 
2012-07-02 05:30:27 AM  
"150 new Florida laws going into effect Sunday."

"Some of the other laws with July 1 effective dates would enlarge Scott's power over state rule making"

Remind me again which party it was that is always talking about having a smaller, less-intrusive government?
 
2012-07-03 02:55:59 AM  
you lump all chiropractors, PT's and MD's together, each as an individual group - this so far away from reality

the reality is that there are good rational doctors and that there are doctor's run by greed and that there are doctors who are just bad / stupid, and to complicate things there are very intelligent doctors out there that are really dumb when they talk outside their area of expertise

the latter is what i see when i read this forum

there are scams and there are bad treatments - unfortunately in all health fields

where is your forum about bogus medical treatments , bogus PT therapies??

ones that have shown to be ineffective and harmful at time to cause even death or disfigurement?

the skeptics that i have read seemed to be on a witch hunt for chiropractic - seems almost racist in a sense.

joint manipulation has been around for a long time- DO's and PT's also do a version, however joint manipulation is a difficult thing to do well and accurately, anybody can get a joint to pop but it takes skill to get it to improve and heal with better function- like anyone can paint a house but few can paint a mona lisa

the fact is that most manipulations is done by chiropractors, most DO's and PT's don't do it enough to get really good at it

the key is to ask your doctor and your friends and relatives for recommendations and then interview the doctor to get his views on how the problem should be treated - i would not go to a PT that recommended 3 or 4 months of treatment for my back, or an MD who is fixing my back pain by suppressing it with meds ( like fixing my noisy muffler with earplugs), back problems need to be calmed down out of the acute phase and then rehabilitated for improved motion, muscle strength and coordination, and the patient needs to be trained on how not to hurt themselves and maintain their fitness

who cares if the MD, PT or DC does this as long as it gets done and done efficiently?
 
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