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(Miami Herald)   It wouldn't be July 1st in Florida without ignoring the State's constitution and teeing off the ACLU, chiropractors, school boards and probably the Courts   (miamiherald.com) divider line 67
    More: Florida, ACLU, florida, school boards, rulemaking process, online learning, constitutions, voyeurism, Rick Scott  
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9763 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2012 at 2:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-01 02:30:31 PM
The people voted him into office. It's also up to them to pay the taxes to support all the law suits for his stupidity.
 
2012-07-01 02:33:54 PM
reason.com
We will follow all rules of law, except for the ACA law.
 
2012-07-01 02:35:11 PM
memearchive.net
 
2012-07-01 02:35:15 PM
FTFA - "...school officials are smarter than legislators."
That is really saying something in Florida.
 
2012-07-01 02:35:36 PM
After the inspirational messages law was adopted, local school districts were warned by the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida that adopting policies permitting student-led inspirational messages would "very likely lead to prolonged litigation." Any district that adopted the measure could be on the hook for hundreds of thousands in legal fees.

Way to protect freedom of speech ACLU
 
2012-07-01 02:37:32 PM
Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.
 
2012-07-01 02:37:50 PM

CasperImproved: The people voted him into office. It's also up to them to pay the taxes to support all the law suits for his stupidity.


Did the people vote him into office? That is another question many have asked. Do you know anyone who voted for him?

I'm a Licensed Massage Therapist. PIP no longer covers my services. I work for an Orthopedic Surgeon's rehab department. I can find other work, but this law still hurts the public by limiting individual choice.
 
2012-07-01 02:37:54 PM

mikaloyd: After the inspirational messages law was adopted, local school districts were warned by the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida that adopting policies permitting student-led inspirational messages would "very likely lead to prolonged litigation." Any district that adopted the measure could be on the hook for hundreds of thousands in legal fees.

Way to protect freedom of speech ACLU


Way to point out the immediate and damaging effects of shiatting on the separation of church and state, ACLU.
 
2012-07-01 02:39:55 PM

FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.


And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.
 
2012-07-01 02:41:07 PM
Way to bring the panic subby. I RTA (I know, I know, but I did it) and this largely looks like things are taking care of themselves. The crazy is being repealed or just not enforced, etc. Except this:

barring doctors from asking patients if they own guns

What the shiat? "Hey I know I'm a Ped, and you've brought your boy/girl in here so I'll look after their health and all. And normally I'd like to ask if you have any guns so I can ask if you're an idiot and leave them laying around. And normally I'd tell you to stop doing that so they won't shoot themselves or another of your kids like happens all the time. But there's this law so uh, let me get the tongue depressor while the nurse gets the MMR box and I'll leave the gun safety to your illiterate parenting skillz."
 
2012-07-01 02:43:42 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.

And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.


If they want to be doctors they should become doctors.
 
2012-07-01 02:46:07 PM

FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.


Beat me to it.

Quackopractors, or as one insurance claims guy I worked with years ago referred to them, Egyptian doctors, simply are not to be trusted. Ever.

We had two here in Iowa who electrocuted a kid to death, in front of his parents, 30 some years ago with one of their quack "therapeutic" devices. The head of the Iowa Chiropractic Association testified at their trial that they had done nothing wrong and it was all just a "tragic but unavoidable accident." Thankfully, the jury did not buy that and sent them off to prison.
 
2012-07-01 02:47:50 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.

And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.


And the ones who are good are the ones who ignore what they were taught in school. Official doctrine still teaches sublaxations.
 
2012-07-01 02:50:48 PM
reason.comwww.startrek.com

Governor Headroom?
 
2012-07-01 02:51:38 PM

mikaloyd: After the inspirational messages law was adopted, local school districts were warned by the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida that adopting policies permitting student-led inspirational messages would "very likely lead to prolonged litigation." Any district that adopted the measure could be on the hook for hundreds of thousands in legal fees.

Way to protect freedom of speech ACLU


Yeah man! I came to say that! Doesn't matter who said it though..... IT got said.
 
2012-07-01 02:52:15 PM
"I would assume they don't want to tell parents their children can't pray in school," Siplin said.

They can pray in school, dipshiat. No one is stopping them from doing it on their own time. It's having EVERYONE pray that people have problems with.
 
2012-07-01 02:52:27 PM

davidphogan: Kumana Wanalaia: FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.

And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.

If they want to be doctors they should become doctors.


If they want to become engineers they should become engineers. What's your point?

Does is make your head hurt to think that some chiropractors aren't quacks?

I repeat, my chiropractor fixed my back.
 
2012-07-01 02:53:27 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.

And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.


As soon as the chiropractic "profession" starts making note of the difference and kicking out the charlatans, this will start to matter to me.
 
2012-07-01 02:54:21 PM
Chiropractors around here advertise that your first "adjustment" visit is free.

You know who else gives away something for free the first time?
 
2012-07-01 02:54:34 PM
reason.comministers.deewr.gov.au

Gov. Scott's bed is burning?
 
2012-07-01 02:55:49 PM

FoxholeAtheist: Kumana Wanalaia: FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.

And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.

As soon as the chiropractic "profession" starts making note of the difference and kicking out the charlatans, this will start to matter to me.


That would be just fine with me. Great, in fact, because I don't like the idea of placebo treatments being sold to idiots.

In the meantime, if my back gets too funky I will head to my chiro.
 
2012-07-01 02:56:08 PM
One of the more troublesome new laws concerns Scott's increased authority over rulemaking. There is a reason why delegated legislative authority is necessary and should be provided to the agency head with expertise over the subject matter of the agency rather than the Governor's office.

This attempt at micromanaging rulemaking is going to create a clusterfark and lead to, essentially, a crippling of an agency's ability to craft policy in light of ever-changing circumstances.
 
2012-07-01 02:58:06 PM

FLmassage1: CasperImproved: The people voted him into office. It's also up to them to pay the taxes to support all the law suits for his stupidity.

Did the people vote him into office? That is another question many have asked. Do you know anyone who voted for him?

I'm a Licensed Massage Therapist. PIP no longer covers my services. I work for an Orthopedic Surgeon's rehab department. I can find other work, but this law still hurts the public by limiting individual choice.


No where near what I was addressing.

I feel for you on your issue, but what I was addressing is that the people choose the idiot that is trying to in-act those laws (I feel the same about Obamacare). I personally think it is the retards that vote the party lines rather than finding out who has the best interests of the people in mind, and then voting for *that* person for office. It is however a moot point for the office of president as no one worth voting for is running for that office. A chimpanzee that chews other critters fingers off could likely do a better job there.
 
2012-07-01 03:02:03 PM
Another new law will let the Florida Virtual School expand part-time offerings to children in kindergarten through third grade and lift a requirement for students to spend at least a year in a regular public school before enrolling in Virtual School classes. That's expected to benefit home-schooled children.

While I have no problem with lifting the requirement, Florida Virtual School offerings are underwhelming. We should not be expanding services but creating a competent delivery model.

Kumana Wanalaia: I repeat, my chiropractor fixed my back.


Your chiropractor was probably a licensed physical therapist who happened to get the chiropractic certificate to use the term "chiropractor". The majority of chiropractic is garbage, and some parts are flatly harmful, but people associate chiropractic somewhere between simple stress relief with massage and major rehabilitation and treatment with physical therapy despite physical therapy being the effective parts of chiropractic. My assumption, but I feel rather confident in this.
 
2012-07-01 03:05:52 PM
FULL STORY

Bad subtard!
 
2012-07-01 03:08:39 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.


They are "healers" but certainly not scientists or doctors. It's just like an actor playing one on TV.
 
2012-07-01 03:09:57 PM
A driver's insurance company is required to pay up to $10,000 for medical bills and lost wages no matter who is at fault.

Bogus claims and faked accidents, though, are largely responsible for a $1.4 billion increase in PIP costs since 2008, state officials say.


Where does it say how much business the insurance companies have lost as a result?
I am not an accountant, but it looks like they raked in about $1.4 billion.
 
2012-07-01 03:16:54 PM

AqueousBoy: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.

They are "healers" but certainly not scientists or doctors. It's just like an actor playing one on TV.


You're the second person to tell me that a chiropractor is not a doctor.

I don't recall claiming that they were doctors. Or scientists for that matter.

Do many chiropractors claim to be scientists or doctors?
 
2012-07-01 03:18:11 PM
Have fun Florida, you elected these numb nuts you can deal with the fall out.
 
2012-07-01 03:20:49 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: AqueousBoy: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.

They are "healers" but certainly not scientists or doctors. It's just like an actor playing one on TV.

You're the second person to tell me that a chiropractor is not a doctor.

I don't recall claiming that they were doctors. Or scientists for that matter.

Do many chiropractors claim to be scientists or doctors?


Yes, most of them claim to be "DC" or "Doctor of Chiropractic". They put on all the trappings of science-based-medicine while actually promoting a pseudoscientific paramedical field.
 
2012-07-01 03:22:48 PM
A law that bans state and local governments from hiring companies that do business in Cuba and Syria already has been challenged in court and a federal judge has at least temporarily put it on hold.

I say we grant Florida independence. When it's conquered and occupied by Cuba we'll barely notice the difference, and the mandatory literacy program will do them good.
 
2012-07-01 03:28:10 PM

macadamnut: A law that bans state and local governments from hiring companies that do business in Cuba and Syria already has been challenged in court and a federal judge has at least temporarily put it on hold.

I say we grant Florida independence. When it's conquered and occupied by Cuba we'll barely notice the difference, and the mandatory literacy program will do them good.


Only if you return all the land that was stolen to form Georgia, Alabama & Mississippi.
 
2012-07-01 03:29:13 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.


Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.
 
2012-07-01 03:30:17 PM

grimlock1972: Have fun Florida, you elected these numb nuts you can deal with the fall out.


No, all the retirees down here did. Tell your grampy thanks for me. Oh, and to please die soon.
 
2012-07-01 03:33:25 PM

StrikitRich: [reason.com image 250x250][www.startrek.com image 320x320]

Governor Headroom?


Can we please not sully the title "Governor" by associating it with Rick Scott's name? I think "Derpmaster General Scott" would be far more appropriate.
 
2012-07-01 03:33:49 PM
If they want to do random drug testing of government employees, it should be applied to all levels of state government including the legislative, judicial and executive branches. The results of tests of elected officials should be a matter of public record. Although the interval may be random, each state employee must be tested at least once per calendar year.

If you draw a state paycheck, once a year you will have to make your own direct deposit.

I'm betting that they wouldn't go for that.
 
2012-07-01 03:35:09 PM

StrikitRich: [reason.com image 250x250][ministers.deewr.gov.au image 300x340]

Gov. Scott's bed is burning?


The time has come to say fair's fair.
 
2012-07-01 03:41:08 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: davidphogan: Kumana Wanalaia: FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.

And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Yeah, some chiropractors are fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers, and some are actual healers. Know the difference.

If they want to be doctors they should become doctors.

If they want to become engineers they should become engineers. What's your point?

Does is make your head hurt to think that some chiropractors aren't quacks?

I repeat, my chiropractor fixed my back.


At the beginning of flu season last year, the local chiropractor put an op/ed in the newspaper talking at length about the dangers if getting a flu shot and how dozens of people nationwide died from flu shots the year before. His solution was to visit your local chiropractor or one you trusted to get some sort of "natural" help in defending yourself against the flu.

To quote the first person in the online forum "it is my firm belief that a chiropractor is one step up the medical ladder from a witch doctor"
 
2012-07-01 03:45:06 PM
I'm okay with pissing off chiropactors. They're almost exclusively scum.
 
2012-07-01 03:50:17 PM

grimlock1972: Have fun Florida, you elected these numb nuts you can deal with the fall out.


On a positive note most Floridians have had enough with Scott's BS. Refusing money for light rail that would have created thousands of jobs and tax revenue, allowing home insurance companies to raise rates dramatically, and now stating he will turn down the federal money to implement the ACA medicare expansion just shows how he is out of touch with the average citizen and only cares about corporate profits.

Of course, he's fighting back not by trying to get the citizens on his side, but by implementing voter purge legislation to try to keep those who have been disenfranchised by his policies from having a say, which thankfully seems to have fully backlashed on him, linky.
 
2012-07-01 03:51:36 PM
 
2012-07-01 03:58:34 PM

Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.


I'll throw my corrected spine behind non-predatory, competent chiropractors here. CSB Time:

A combination of scoliosis and studentitis made life hell in my early twenties; my spine was twisted in such a way that made my ribcage squeeze my lungs, so working out was torture and I was always winded. Add to that my lower spine was curved down and ground against itself (kissing spinus syndrome). X-rays showed this, as well as the "tenting" effect (a white haze rendered on the x-ray which indicates muscle spasming). Anterior ribs made weightlifting impossible, as rib heads would pop out during benching (and even from sneezing). Hell, pure hell.

Ultra-sound therapy, electro-stimulation and adjustments over the course of a year drastically readjusted the curvature of my spine. I still have minor issues with popped ribs every so often, and go in for adjustments once or twice a year if something gets too annoying to ignore. Other than that, I'm able to enjoy life again; train with weights, run, and not be crippled by a deficiently-formed spine.

I know lots of people have a "thing" they like to crusade against; chiropractors are a favorite target. Like ALL medical professions, it falls victim to sleazy opportunist individuals who take advantage of sick and desperate folks. But don't even attempt to denigrate the entire profession by writing off success stories as the results of the placebo effect and that other fallacious catch-all. It's lazy and disingenuous.

TL;DR -- while predatory chiros exist, not all are such, and trying to discredit an entire profession and the success stories that arise as a result of help from said profession is lazy and as fallacious as the analytical techniques levied against said results.
 
2012-07-01 04:00:08 PM

TuteTibiImperes: grimlock1972: Have fun Florida, you elected these numb nuts you can deal with the fall out.

On a positive note most Floridians have had enough with Scott's BS. Refusing money for light rail that would have created thousands of jobs and tax revenue, allowing home insurance companies to raise rates dramatically, and now stating he will turn down the federal money to implement the ACA medicare expansion just shows how he is out of touch with the average citizen and only cares about corporate profits.

Of course, he's fighting back not by trying to get the citizens on his side, but by implementing voter purge legislation to try to keep those who have been disenfranchised by his policies from having a say, which thankfully seems to have fully backlashed on him, linky.


Not to mention that the light rail would have added a means of transportation that travels faster then 15 MPH, and no actual need to interpret if the turn signal of the car in front actually meant right or not.
 
2012-07-01 04:06:00 PM
That asshole barely won, and now a lot of people I know that voted for him regret it big time...

/Reap the whirlwind!
 
2012-07-01 04:08:11 PM

Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.


Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.
 
2012-07-01 04:12:16 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.


Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.
 
2012-07-01 04:23:16 PM

jayphat: At the beginning of flu season last year, the local chiropractor put an op/ed in the newspaper talking at length about the dangers if getting a flu shot and how dozens of people nationwide died from flu shots the year before. His solution was to visit your local chiropractor or one you trusted to get some sort of "natural" help in defending yourself against the flu.

To quote the first person in the online forum "it is my firm belief that a chiropractor is one step up the medical ladder from a witch doctor"


Chiros like that are the "fruity new age crystal waving magnet wearers" that I referred to. Those people should not be allowed to fleece morons. Neither should palm readers, astrologists, or "psychics".

Absolutely. A fruitcake is a fruitcake is a fruitcake.
 
2012-07-01 04:24:11 PM

jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.


And what kinds of things would they do if you came to them with back pain?
 
2012-07-01 04:30:11 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.

And what kinds of things would they do if you came to them with back pain?


Hell I don't know. Therapy? They're the medical professionals, not me. I haven't been to a doctor since we were only in 1 war.
 
2012-07-01 04:41:46 PM

jayphat: I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.

And what kinds of things would they do if you came to them with back pain?

Hell I don't know. Therapy? They're the medical professionals, not me. I haven't been to a doctor since we were only in 1 war.


Interesting. You don't know what they would actually do to address your problem. But you know that they would be better than my chiropractor, whose methods you almost certainly can't specify.

All rhetoric aside, I share your rage against fake medicine. F*ck quacks, okay?

But not all chiros are quacks.
 
2012-07-01 04:56:56 PM

jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.


THIS. And to answer the question that Kumana raises about what would they do, they'd do something based on farking sciene and anatomy, not on quakery.

Here it is: chiropractic is nonsense, pure and simple. Some chiropractors may do things analogous
to what might be done by a LMT or a PT and that's what helps, not the chiropractic "medicine".

/PTs have enabled me to keep working despite having badly messed up my back 40+ years ago.
 
2012-07-01 05:00:35 PM

Gough: jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.

THIS. And to answer the question that Kumana raises about what would they do, they'd do something based on farking sciene and anatomy, not on quakery.

Here it is: chiropractic is nonsense, pure and simple. Some chiropractors may do things analogous
to what might be done by a LMT or a PT and that's what helps, not the chiropractic "medicine".

/PTs have enabled me to keep working despite having badly messed up my back 40+ years ago.


Okay, let's go there.

What would an LMT or PT do?

What is the "chiropractic medicine" that is quackery?

If a chiropractor does exclusively things that an LMT or PT would do, are they a quack?
 
2012-07-01 05:04:42 PM
Mind you, I mean if the chiro does a subset of the things an LMT or PT would do. i'm not suggesting that a chiro does all the things an LMT or PT does.
 
2012-07-01 05:25:56 PM
and by subset i mean a smaller subset, not the subset equal to teh set.
 
2012-07-01 05:31:15 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: Gough: jayphat: Kumana Wanalaia: Evilsmurf: Kumana Wanalaia: And let me be the first to say, my chiropractor fixed my back.

Let me refer you to two things. Firstly, the placebo effect. Secondly, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Your doubts are logically legitimate.

I don't hope your back goes out, but if it does, I challenge you to find a better solution than a good chiropractor.

Physical therapist. I have 2 in the family. You know, licensed medical professionals.

THIS. And to answer the question that Kumana raises about what would they do, they'd do something based on farking sciene and anatomy, not on quakery.

Here it is: chiropractic is nonsense, pure and simple. Some chiropractors may do things analogous
to what might be done by a LMT or a PT and that's what helps, not the chiropractic "medicine".

/PTs have enabled me to keep working despite having badly messed up my back 40+ years ago.

Okay, let's go there.

What would an LMT or PT do?

What is the "chiropractic medicine" that is quackery?

If a chiropractor does exclusively things that an LMT or PT would do, are they a quack?


It's called "subluxation theory", and it's the basis of chiropractic.
 
2012-07-01 05:57:05 PM
Article is a little long, but from what I scanned it sounds like the author would place my chiropractor in the "competent" column. Lucky me.

Interesting stuff, I have bookmarked it.

As far as the idea that people need continuous chiropractic adjustments because they will get various types of illnesses if their vertebra are misaligned, this has not ever been suggested to me. My experience was that I had some serious back and neck pain, saw the chiro a few times, and stopped seeing the chiro when my problem was fixed. Neither of the guys I saw told me "okay now, you'll have to come back every week for the rest of your life or else your nervous system will make various parts of your body sick".
 
2012-07-01 06:29:51 PM

FoxholeAtheist: It's called "subluxation theory", and it's the basis of chiropractic.


Every "chiropractor" I've known has rejected subluxation theory on the basis that it's pure bunk. They go through the motions because people who would never dream of visiting a physical therapist will happily go to a chiropractor, so that's where the business is. They tend to perform the same therapy as actual PTs (I believe all but maybe one of the ones I've known were licensed PTs), have the same training, go to the same conferences, and so on. I've never really tried to get to know any woowoo whackos, though, my fiancee is the one who knows all of the astrologers and homeopaths. I don't ask about them, but as far as I know she doesn't know any chiropractors like that, aside from one guy who calls himself one (whether licensed or not, I don't know), works out of his home, and prescribes homeopathic remedies.

Not to mention that there are plenty of bad PTs out there, too - worker's comp and disability insurance fraud is rampant, not just by employees, but by incompetent PTs who do jack shiat for patients while collecting payments.
 
2012-07-01 07:01:01 PM
The chiro just down the road from my house advertises on a billboard out front that you should bring your kids in for chiropractic adjustments to fix ear infections. This is by no means uncommon.
 
2012-07-01 07:18:02 PM
FoxholeAtheist:

We get it, some chiropractors are frauds. You made your point.
 
2012-07-01 07:35:17 PM
Apparently you don't get it. This is not some offshoot bunch of whackjob chiros that have taken the basically sound teachings of chiropractic schools and turned it "bad"; this is a group of mainstream chiros regurgitating what they learned in school, which is pure pseudoscience. The non-scam chiros are the exceptions, not the rule. In chiropractic schools they teach that all diseases are due to these "subluxations", and that with proper adjustment, chiros can cure all sorts of non-musculo-skeletal conditions. On top of that, as they're taught to not trust science-based medicine in school, they tend to also promote homeopathy, anti-vaccination, and all sorts of related woo-woo shiat. The entirety of chiropractic "theory" is 100% bullshiat, and until they denounce "subluxation theory", it will always be so. Of course, they are unlikely to do that as that would make them little better than PT's, and they would have to stop calling each other "Doctor" so-and-so.
 
2012-07-01 07:46:21 PM

FoxholeAtheist: Let me be the first to say "fark Chiropractors".

Pseudomedical practitioners should have no say in real medical care.


THIS. And allowing them to make the determination on whether high school kids who have had concussions can return to play is completely asinine. Just really, really stupid.
 
2012-07-01 09:45:38 PM
Seriously US of A, chirocrapters can currently asses you for an insurance claim.

/the more I learn about American health care the more I doubt you guys have long for this world
//well, the first world at least
 
2012-07-01 11:45:37 PM
Can you farkers please stop posting Miami Herald links?? I'm not going to log in to read that shiat. And deleting cookies doesn't help.
 
2012-07-01 11:46:59 PM

foxyshadis: Every "chiropractor" I've known has rejected subluxation theory on the basis that it's pure bunk


That's crazy talk, because subluxation theory is the core of chiropractic college. Use Google to search the site of any chiropractic college and you'll find oodles of pages and papers discussing subluxation.
 
2012-07-02 02:15:17 AM

elchip: foxyshadis: Every "chiropractor" I've known has rejected subluxation theory on the basis that it's pure bunk

That's crazy talk, because subluxation theory is the core of chiropractic college. Use Google to search the site of any chiropractic college and you'll find oodles of pages and papers discussing subluxation.


I explained the reasoning: For better or worse, people are more likely to go to someone who calls themselves a chiropractor than a physical therapist. Among the general public, they actually have a better reputation than doctors and therapists, which have lately begun to be perceived as gouging their clients for little additional benefit. One I know didn't know before he paid his tuition that it was so hocus-pocus, but by then he might as well finish than throw it all away. So they go to the silly school, they regurgitate what they know is bunk and get their license, then set up shop using accepted modern methods of physical therapy and call it chiropracty.

That's why there's so much confusion about good and bad chiros, because the name has undeserved cachet. (And unfortunately these types reinforce that.) Yet another example of in theory vs in practice.
 
2012-07-02 05:30:27 AM
"150 new Florida laws going into effect Sunday."

"Some of the other laws with July 1 effective dates would enlarge Scott's power over state rule making"

Remind me again which party it was that is always talking about having a smaller, less-intrusive government?
 
2012-07-03 02:55:59 AM
you lump all chiropractors, PT's and MD's together, each as an individual group - this so far away from reality

the reality is that there are good rational doctors and that there are doctor's run by greed and that there are doctors who are just bad / stupid, and to complicate things there are very intelligent doctors out there that are really dumb when they talk outside their area of expertise

the latter is what i see when i read this forum

there are scams and there are bad treatments - unfortunately in all health fields

where is your forum about bogus medical treatments , bogus PT therapies??

ones that have shown to be ineffective and harmful at time to cause even death or disfigurement?

the skeptics that i have read seemed to be on a witch hunt for chiropractic - seems almost racist in a sense.

joint manipulation has been around for a long time- DO's and PT's also do a version, however joint manipulation is a difficult thing to do well and accurately, anybody can get a joint to pop but it takes skill to get it to improve and heal with better function- like anyone can paint a house but few can paint a mona lisa

the fact is that most manipulations is done by chiropractors, most DO's and PT's don't do it enough to get really good at it

the key is to ask your doctor and your friends and relatives for recommendations and then interview the doctor to get his views on how the problem should be treated - i would not go to a PT that recommended 3 or 4 months of treatment for my back, or an MD who is fixing my back pain by suppressing it with meds ( like fixing my noisy muffler with earplugs), back problems need to be calmed down out of the acute phase and then rehabilitated for improved motion, muscle strength and coordination, and the patient needs to be trained on how not to hurt themselves and maintain their fitness

who cares if the MD, PT or DC does this as long as it gets done and done efficiently?
 
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