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(The Tennessean)   Never having heard of Florida, new Tennessee law requires welfare recipients to undergo drug testing   (tennessean.com) divider line 58
    More: Fail, welfare recipients, psychological testing, Tenn, Bill Haslam, drug testing, Department of Human Services, Medical prescription, laws take effect  
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1436 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jul 2012 at 12:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-07-01 01:14:16 PM
5 votes:
Well, they MUST be lazy, or on drugs, or something, since they're poor. I mean, it HAS to be their fault. Nothing like that could happen to someone that works hard, who tries hard, right? 'Cause that would me it could happen to me, and I don't like to think about that.
2012-07-01 10:41:21 AM
5 votes:

Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."


Yeah! I was unfairly obliged to help fund a morally reprehensible war in Iraq that killed thousands of innocent people. This war was imposed on me against my wishes, thus violating my rights. I was not given the opportunity to decide how each dollar I paid in taxes was allocated. I was shackled to the tyrannical war machine! This is slave labor!

And as if that weren't enough, I was arbitrarily obliged to not go faster than 65 on the freeway yesterday! Who the Hell gave people the right to impose this restriction on my liberty?
2012-07-01 01:19:21 PM
4 votes:
The right-wing is struggling today with what they believe in. I'd like to think that Romney's appointment to be their candidate was a big factor, but they've been struggling about what their platform is for at least a decade now. The only issue is that they were able to ignore that when they had power from 2002-2006 and now are ripping at the seams.

They desperately want to use their innate power to back a status quo to work when that status quo really doesn't exist. Republicans are very prone to media manipulation and they really don't know the world around them. The insularity of the Republican base is one of the main reasons they're no longer being taken seriously as a political ideology anymore: they have narrowed down their entire reason for being as a pure opposition party. That's the only thing they can agree on, outside of some nebulous terminology that has been co-opted to vote more Republicans into office. Note how many Republicans you see today who sort to a pathetic sort of name-calling when they don't get their way, and how many of those names came from the Reagan Era that have now lost all of their venomous meaning or are so over-the-top that they can't even be taken a joke as much as an old joke.

The Republican Base is fighting a War on Reality. They're not governing, they're slowly finding out that the world they were told about does not exist, and they're not in a rush to find out and change their ways. They're just going to go around wasting everybody's time while rocking the faux outrage until, one day, the dumbasses figure out they've been conned. And they're not adverse to wasting money in the long run to help with their insane faith-based reasoning that, so far, has shown how stupid they really are.
2012-07-01 01:39:24 PM
3 votes:

Cataholic: Fluorescent Testicle: BarkingUnicorn: Finally, someone speaks the truth: welfare is just protection money.

Account created: 2012-03-04 23:18:14.

Well..that totally invalidates anything that person has to say!


If you have to make an alt to get around the fact that everyone has your old account on ignore, you have nothing valid to say. You are merely contributing to the collective effort to tank the signal-to-noise ratio.
2012-07-01 01:05:26 PM
3 votes:

Shaggy_C: DarwiOdrade: Why? So you can complain about your tax dollars going to pay for their weight-training and cable TV?

Don't be ridiculous. The threat of punishment is supposed to encourage positive behavior. You can't get a well-paying job if you can't pass a drug test.


You can't get a well-paying job if you're "thrown in jail" either, genius.
2012-07-01 01:03:52 PM
3 votes:

microman: the Mom spent the money on drugs. Do you really think the kid got a meal from the welfare check? Are you that stupid? Yes you are?


Are you aware that the poor buy foods with EBT cards, not welfare checks?

For a right winger obsessed with those lucky poors getting to eat food, I would think you would know the basics of how that works.
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-07-01 11:28:26 AM
3 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Why not? Cash assistance isn't even a very large part of the federal budget, and it helps a lot of people. Abuse of the system is actually very low. I'm having a hard time figuring out why we shouldn't have it.


Because he read Atlas Shrugged or some other Ayn Rand novel and now he thinks poor people need to be rounded up and killed so that the rich can survive, or some bullshiat like that.
2012-07-01 10:56:55 AM
3 votes:

Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."


In florida, they spent something like $21 million to catch a few thousand in fraud. Oh and the money went to a friend of the governor.

That makes sense to you?
2012-07-01 04:20:29 PM
2 votes:

Hobodeluxe: isn't that what Wall st or the oil companies or the military industrial complex do?


It's pretty similar to the GOP's "Give us everything or we will burn your country down," too.
2012-07-01 04:11:11 PM
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: So I should be happy with "give me money or I will burn your house down"?


isn't that what Wall st or the oil companies or the military industrial complex do?
2012-07-01 01:56:43 PM
2 votes:

Notabunny: So their point is that every Tennessee State legislator must be tested? I'm ok with this.

[img.photobucket.com image 640x470]


I still remember a few months back, some lawmaker (I think it was Georgia) was proposing drug tests to everyone who gets a government check, from welfare to government employees. A reporter asked if Congress would be included, and that guy lost his shiat in a "HOW DARE YOU!" fit of self-righteousness.

It was pretty obvious who this guy was trying to target with that proposal.
2012-07-01 01:56:41 PM
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: DarwiOdrade: Why? So you can complain about your tax dollars going to pay for their weight-training and cable TV?

Don't be ridiculous. The threat of punishment is supposed to encourage positive behavior. You can't get a well-paying job if you can't pass a drug test.


That's a lie.
2012-07-01 01:52:53 PM
2 votes:
So their point is that every Tennessee State legislator must be tested? I'm ok with this.

img.photobucket.com
2012-07-01 01:50:45 PM
2 votes:
I was having a conversation with a guy I know Friday. Runs a home care thing, supplies CNA to watch the disabled. He's all whiny because is employees are eligible for food stamps and so forth. Pays like $9 an hour. They also have a high absentee/late rate, and he's always having to pay time-and-a-half to cover for them.

I suggested that maybe if he paid them more, they wouldn't be eligible for the assistance, AND he could get a better class of worker creating higher levels of customer satisfaction while reducing the frequency with which he has to deal with the problems, and eliminating overtime.

No. Way.
2012-07-01 01:46:33 PM
2 votes:

hawcian: Having read the article (I know, I'm a terrible Farker), this new law sounds ... less terrible. It is at least more well thought out than the Florida version. It's not a blanket drug test; new welfare applicants are screened and only the suspicious cases are tested -- although granted, this could be abused. Also the ones who do test positive are supposed to be given a chance at treatment.


And what's the criteria for being suspicious of using drugs, though? Maybe all the case workers will be given one of those paint color charts.
2012-07-01 01:28:59 PM
2 votes:

DarwiOdrade: Lenny_da_Hog: That's not enough punishment.

It's not punishment at all for the drug-addled parents. No kids to worry about? Woohoo!

For the children it is. Unfortunately, they haven't (usually) done anything wrong.


My mother was an alcoholic and downer freak. I ate. I escaped it.

Thank you, Welfare and Basic Educational Opportunity Grants, and Comprehensive Employment and Training Act, and National Direct Student Loan Program.
2012-07-01 01:28:10 PM
2 votes:
Smoke weed? You deserve to lose your job, your family and your life.

This is what morons actually believe.
2012-07-01 01:15:55 PM
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."


Look, I appreciate this type of argument, and understand that it is all part of the push and pull of living in a democracy, but you guys miss the greater point sometimes. No one anywhere is ever truly pulling his own weight. Even if you are John Galt himself, you owe some part of your existence to the choices/sacrifices/discoveries/largesse/hard work of other people. (and even animlas, ffs)

Given that, and the fact that the line between being one of the capable and one of the less fortunate is essentially having the ability to pick your parents wisely, (and hard work, luck, etc) I just don't understand how people can have so little compassion for the less fortunate.

Oh, and I hate paying my taxes and wish the government was more efficient and transparent, but at the end of the day, taxes buy me civilization. I don't want to live in a world where the unlucky/needy/lesser-abled/vulnerable are left to rot and die. (I might end up like one of them one day) I'd rather chip in a little and try to create a country that works for as many people as possible.

It seems that most of our fellow citizens agree, which is probably why we have the govenerment we have today.
2012-07-01 01:11:50 PM
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: DarwiOdrade: You can't get a well-paying job if you're "thrown in jail" either, genius.

At least in jail you can't really continue breaking the law...


And then when her kids steal food, throw *them* in jail.

Jail, jail for everyone! Punishment is fun.
2012-07-01 01:01:11 PM
2 votes:
It's immoral and doesn't save money. What's the upside again?
2012-07-01 11:30:45 AM
2 votes:

MBK: cameroncrazy1984: Why not? Cash assistance isn't even a very large part of the federal budget, and it helps a lot of people. Abuse of the system is actually very low. I'm having a hard time figuring out why we shouldn't have it.

Because he read Atlas Shrugged or some other Ayn Rand novel and now he thinks poor people need to be rounded up and killed so that the rich can survive, or some bullshiat like that.


Yep, that sounds about right.
2012-07-01 04:14:01 PM
1 votes:

Noam Chimpsky: I don't see the problem. Welfare druggies can just move to Democrat states and get more welfare benefits and use drugs all they want. They really don't belong in Republican states.


maybe the Red states should just secede since they don't want to participate anymore? After all they're the ones sucking up all the Federal money for their hoverounds.
2012-07-01 02:51:32 PM
1 votes:
Silly Jesus.. might as well call yourself Anti-Christ, dude.
2012-07-01 02:37:25 PM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."

We have a concept in the US called the "social contract". The quid pro quo of this contract reads roughly that for value received of not starving to death in the streets and generally having a slightly better than subsistence level of existing, the poor covenant not to rise up en masse to burn, loot and murder the wealthy.

Don't like it? Move to Somalia and live in a fortress.


So I should be happy with "give me money or I will burn your house down"?

Also, they aren't really sticking to their end of the contract.

I like this contract much better... "If I don't allow you to extort money from me, and you try to burn my house down, I'll enact the castle doctrine and solve the problem for you."
2012-07-01 02:15:07 PM
1 votes:
Another moron of a governor wants to go after the people least likely to be able to afford drugs.

(hint: check up the noses on Wall Street)
2012-07-01 02:10:00 PM
1 votes:
The thing that bothers me is that all this does is reinforce the belief that all welfare recipients are druggies so that makes it ok to cut funding to them and Jesus will be cool with it.

When faced with reality (ie: only 1% failed the drug test in Florida), these same people deny it and try to make up with as many excuses as they can to reinforce what they already believed in.

It's quite sickening when you also realize that these same people call themselves Christians.
2012-07-01 02:07:15 PM
1 votes:

badhatharry: Louisiana tried this. A Democrat put in an amendment that lawmakers would also be required to be drug tested. It didn't pass.


No of course not. Heaven forbid we try to hold our lawmakers to the same standards that they're trying to hold welfare recipients to.
2012-07-01 02:05:37 PM
1 votes:
It beats testing everyone and sending it out to regular drug labs. This way only the suspicious are tested and it goes to suspicious drug labs, which may or may not be owned by the very people who wrote and enacted the law. Suspicious.
2012-07-01 01:52:14 PM
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: It's not about right or wrong, it's about punishing black people until they leave your state. Everyone should be able to agree to that.


Are you implying only blacks are on welfare?
2012-07-01 01:46:17 PM
1 votes:

jj325: You have to be a 21 to gamble or drink. If you want to buy a lottery ticket, go to a casino, or buy alcohol you should have to swipe your ID. If it comes back saying you're unemployed you are denied.


What if I'm unemployed because I'm rich and spending my trust fund?
2012-07-01 01:46:16 PM
1 votes:

jj325: You have to be a 21 to gamble or drink. If you want to buy a lottery ticket, go to a casino, or buy alcohol you should have to swipe your ID. If it comes back saying you're unemployed you are denied.


Why do you want to punish businesses? It's not the liquor store or casino's responsibility to make sure people make good decisions.
2012-07-01 01:41:09 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: FTA: "If somebody next door to you loses their check and food stamps, what do you think they're going to do?" asked Brown, who lives in a housing project with her four children. "They still got to eat, feed their kids. You're going to have a lot more crime."

Finally, someone speaks the truth: welfare is just protection money.


DUUUURRRR. Haven't you ever read any history? France ringing a bell? When poor people can't take anymore, they start killing and eating the rich.
2012-07-01 01:40:42 PM
1 votes:

microman:

the Mom spent the money on drugs. Do you really think the kid got a meal from the welfare check? Are you that stupid? Yes you are?


Let us examine your proposal in detail. As we who are intelligent all know, druggies always fail to feed their children, preferring to spend their money on drugs, no matter how much money they get. As a consequence, their children all starve to death. This means that the genetic propensity to use drugs has now died out, ushering in a golden age of drug-free life for all true Americans.

You are so smart.
2012-07-01 01:40:30 PM
1 votes:
i232.photobucket.com
2012-07-01 01:40:25 PM
1 votes:

microman: druggies, and thieves, they will all vote for Obama

so who cares? its the Democrat way of life.


Rush Limbaugh and Rick Scott voted for Obama?
2012-07-01 01:36:09 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: Good. They should be thrown in jail if they fail, too.


Great, that way we can hear you biatch about all those free bologna sandwiches the poors are eating on your dime
2012-07-01 01:35:37 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Finally, someone speaks the truth: welfare is just protection money.


Account created: 2012-03-04 23:18:14.
2012-07-01 01:31:45 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: Lenny_da_Hog: And then when her kids steal food, throw *them* in jail.

Children of drug addicts should be taken from the home and placed with a state agency until such time that the parents are capable of being guardians.


Sounds expensive, they will have to raise taxes. I'm sure knowing they are helping out the poor and doing the right thing will let those tax hikes pass easily.
2012-07-01 01:30:25 PM
1 votes:

hawcian: So it seems they're actually going with "some people are abusing the system and we should discourage that" and attempting to do so in a sane way, as opposed to Florida's "poors are evil" crap.


Sure. The only problem is that the supposed "abuse" of the "system" in this case is really just a bunch of ill-defined, highly moralized irrationality.
2012-07-01 01:30:22 PM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."

We have a concept in the US called the "social contract". The quid pro quo of this contract reads roughly that for value received of not starving to death in the streets and generally having a slightly better than subsistence level of existing, the poor covenant not to rise up en masse to burn, loot and murder the wealthy.

Don't like it? Move to Somalia and live in a fortress.


I like that the only justification for your social "contract" is rooted in extortion.
2012-07-01 01:27:55 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."


I'll take my $700 billion bail-out in small, unmarked bills... slave
2012-07-01 01:21:06 PM
1 votes:
Having read the article (I know, I'm a terrible Farker), this new law sounds ... less terrible. It is at least more well thought out than the Florida version. It's not a blanket drug test; new welfare applicants are screened and only the suspicious cases are tested -- although granted, this could be abused. Also the ones who do test positive are supposed to be given a chance at treatment.

So it seems they're actually going with "some people are abusing the system and we should discourage that" and attempting to do so in a sane way, as opposed to Florida's "poors are evil" crap.

/still think it's probably a waste of money
2012-07-01 01:18:37 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: DarwiOdrade: You can't get a well-paying job if you're "thrown in jail" either, genius.

At least in jail you can't really continue breaking the law...


Not sure if trolling or just really dumb.
2012-07-01 01:11:02 PM
1 votes:

X-boxershorts: The economists of the likes of the Hoover Institute, The American Enterprise Institute, The Reason Foundation, The Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute are not arriving at their opinions which you echo, trough empirical analysis of policy. They get their by first staking our a moral position and cherry picking analysis to FIT this moral position.

These professionals are not economists. They may be trained in economics, but first and foremost, they are moralists.


No. If they were true moralists, the policies they backed would have a track record of reducing the behavior they claim is wrong. Instead, time and again, their policies only truly have a track record of enriching those that need enriching the least at the expense of those that need it most.

These people know what they're doing, and know it hurts society more than it helps. But they do it anyway, to keep themselves on top of the mountain.
2012-07-01 01:10:16 PM
1 votes:

andersoncouncil42: It's immoral and doesn't save money. What's the upside again?


It punishes poor people. Poor people who might be Democrats, or worse, might be brown.
2012-07-01 01:06:19 PM
1 votes:

microman: Ozarkhawk: 3 year old: I'm hungry!

Tennessee: Gee, sorry, but your mom takes drugs, so you don't get any food money.

3 year old: I'm hungry!

Tennessee: You should have thought of that before you decided to be born to a druggie! Go get a job! Be bootstrappy!

the Mom spent the money on drugs. Do you really think the kid got a meal from the welfare check? Are you that stupid? Yes you are?


Because everyone on welfare is a druggie. No matter what. In fact, you get a free 8-ball when you sign up, just to keep the sterotype going.
2012-07-01 01:06:08 PM
1 votes:

microman: Ozarkhawk: 3 year old: I'm hungry!

Tennessee: Gee, sorry, but your mom takes drugs, so you don't get any food money.

3 year old: I'm hungry!

Tennessee: You should have thought of that before you decided to be born to a druggie! Go get a job! Be bootstrappy!

the Mom spent the money on drugs. Do you really think the kid got a meal from the welfare check? Are you that stupid? Yes you are?


I figured the point would be lost on you. Just not that fast.

Most people - even druggies - still eat. A kid in a a home with money has a better chance of eating than a kid in a home with no money, regardless of drugs. Punishing children for the sins of their parents isn't the answer.
2012-07-01 01:05:14 PM
1 votes:
I understand that states pass stupid laws all the time, but when they pass an obviously unconstitutional law...I just don't get it.
2012-07-01 01:00:45 PM
1 votes:

Shaggy_C: Good. They should be thrown in jail if they fail, too.


Why? So you can complain about your tax dollars going to pay for their weight-training and cable TV?
2012-07-01 12:59:17 PM
1 votes:
i595.photobucket.com
2012-07-01 12:58:29 PM
1 votes:
3 year old: I'm hungry!

Tennessee: Gee, sorry, but your mom takes drugs, so you don't get any food money.

3 year old: I'm hungry!

Tennessee: You should have thought of that before you decided to be born to a druggie! Go get a job! Be bootstrappy!
2012-07-01 12:45:16 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."


We have a concept in the US called the "social contract". The quid pro quo of this contract reads roughly that for value received of not starving to death in the streets and generally having a slightly better than subsistence level of existing, the poor covenant not to rise up en masse to burn, loot and murder the wealthy.

Don't like it? Move to Somalia and live in a fortress.
2012-07-01 12:25:40 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."


"'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'"

God wants you to be a slave!
2012-07-01 12:24:52 PM
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I still say we pick one state and let the tards do whatever they want with it. Make it a glorious cultural metropolis that the other 49 (or 56 if you want to take a clever AND original jab at the President) states will be envious of.


I thought that was Arizona?
2012-07-01 11:20:04 AM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: The problem is with the program existing at all.

No, it doesn't make sense to spend that amount of money to catch that few people, but the program shouldn't be in place to start with. Problem solved


Why not? Cash assistance isn't even a very large part of the federal budget, and it helps a lot of people. Abuse of the system is actually very low. I'm having a hard time figuring out why we shouldn't have it.
2012-07-01 11:08:46 AM
1 votes:
I really do enjoy my state wasting the precious few dollars they get, since all we have are regressive sales taxes that are highly volatile in incoming value as the economy changes. Not to mention they've cut services everywhere, so clearly the solution is to now waste money. I suppose it could be worse; nobody has found out that Haslam has set up a direct subsidy to himself yet, or declared all gas stations except Pilot subject to extra taxes or anything retarded like that. Of course, that's hard to tell since the very first thing he did as governor was to trash all the regulations on reporting income for himself and his staff.
2012-07-01 11:08:08 AM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Silly Jesus: If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."

In florida, they spent something like $21 million to catch a few thousand in fraud. Oh and the money went to a friend of the governor.

That makes sense to you?


The problem is with the program existing at all.

No, it doesn't make sense to spend that amount of money to catch that few people, but the program shouldn't be in place to start with. Problem solved.
2012-07-01 10:23:44 AM
1 votes:
If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor. Any alleged "right" of one man, which necessitates the violation of the rights of another, is not and cannot be a right. No man can have a right to impose an unchosen obligation, an unrewarded duty or an involuntary servitude on another man. There can be no such thing as "the right to enslave."
 
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