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(Yahoo)   ...and then they went after the churches   (ca.news.yahoo.com) divider line 157
    More: Interesting, IRS, political faction, Crossroads GPS, Charles Koch, New York Attorney General, churches, charitable organizations, scrutiny  
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6465 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Jun 2012 at 2:17 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-30 02:52:08 PM
abb3w: Some churches appear to be trying to altar the deal.

www.threadbombing.com
 
2012-06-30 02:57:23 PM
There will be much butthurt to come in the convective movement. "In my heart I thought..." is no more a defense from the law than is ignorance.

Of course, who does the IRS put a lien on with these sock puppet organizations?
 
2012-06-30 02:57:44 PM
PillsHere: Reading Fark I often feel a little bit better about politics because most people seem to be fairly rational with the exception of a few well-known trolls/GOP/tea party whatever you want to call them. However, reading the comments for this article definitely puts it into perspective that perhaps we're the minority. Gosh I hope not.

The most rational arguments get hidden as a result of negative votes... a metaphor for our republic, I suppose.
 
2012-06-30 02:59:17 PM
abb3w: trying to altar the deal.
lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-06-30 03:02:49 PM
I'm ok with this in principle. But doing this during an election year is likely to blowup in Obama's face.
 
2012-06-30 03:03:18 PM
Zoomaster: /How did he ever have time to win the Civil War and save the Union?

Men were men back then in the 17 sixties, they didn't have none of these tv and raydeeoh thingers...

/let me tell you 'bout Paul...big as a house, he was!
 
2012-06-30 03:04:12 PM
abb3w: GhostFish: Because it's supposed to keep them out of politics, to a degree. They get tax exempt status, and in return they don't explicitly use the power of the church to tell people to vote one way or the other.

That was part of the original understanding. Some churches appear to be trying to altar the deal.


That was a terrible pun and you should feel terrible.
 
2012-06-30 03:07:45 PM
i950.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-30 03:08:10 PM
Lunchlady: I'm ok with this in principle. But doing this during an election year is likely to blowup in Obama's face.

Well, it isn't actually about churches, it is about the SuperPACS and organizations setting up such PACS. It is fallout from the CU ruling.

/The headline was misleading at best.
 
2012-06-30 03:09:02 PM
Dancin_In_Anson: HakunaMatata: shine a big bright light on all of them.

ALL of them?


i really like how you cherry-pick threads to comment in. Only when you have an "in", in your retarded opinion, do you speak up.
 
2012-06-30 03:09:36 PM
OMG if they go after the churches the next thing is we will be taxed TOO!!

OH wait we are already taxed!!! So subby's point is retarded.
 
2012-06-30 03:10:27 PM
Dancin_In_Anson: HakunaMatata: shine a big bright light on all of them.

ALL of them?


Yes. Now, can you please explain why were you expecting a different answer?
 
2012-06-30 03:11:27 PM
i have a lot of difficulty taking churches and churchgoers seriously. "you believe WHAT? really? REALLY? Oh wow."

I know this is a condescending and unhelpful attitude that I have, but I can't help it. The whole enterprise of religion just seems so silly to me that I always suspect they're joking about it.
 
2012-06-30 03:11:31 PM
And I said YES!
 
2012-06-30 03:14:57 PM
Lunchlady: I'm ok with this in principle. But doing this during an election year is likely to blowup in Obama's face.

If the article is correct, the IRS' findings won't be known until after the election. Even if they waited and started investigating the day after the election, or the day after the inauguration, there would be people crying that it was a political move. In that case the argument would be that they were deliberately doing it early so the organizations would be hamstrung for an entire election cycle and so that people would forget before the midterm election. It's always election season in the US. With that being the case, I'd argue that it's never the wrong time to do the right thing.
 
2012-06-30 03:15:03 PM
urban.derelict: Zoomaster: /How did he ever have time to win the Civil War and save the Union?

Men were men back then in the 17 sixties, they didn't have none of these tv and raydeeoh thingers...

/let me tell you 'bout Paul...big as a house, he was!


===============

I've met Paul, I've been to one of his restaurants where I sometime vacation.

libertywebmarketingandseo.com
 
2012-06-30 03:15:13 PM
xanadian: IANAL...

What an unfortunate acronym.
 
2012-06-30 03:15:19 PM
that's a great way to get those bullshiat regs declared unconstitutional.

Unconstitutional Conditions Doctrine:
although government may choose not to provide certain benefits altogether, it may not condition the conferral of a benefit, once provided, on a beneficiary's waiver of a constitutional right.



/and then you authoritarians will be really buthurt.
 
2012-06-30 03:15:33 PM
First they came for the richest people in history,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't one of the richest people in history.

Then they came for the radical right-wing thugs,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a radical right-wing thug.

Then they came for the corrupt religionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a corrupt religionist.

And then they came for me,
And they said, "Oh, wait, you're not a parasitic piece of trash, you're cool,"
So that was fine.
 
2012-06-30 03:17:39 PM
CapnBlues: I know this is a condescending and unhelpful attitude that I have, but I can't help it. The whole enterprise of religion just seems so silly to me that I always suspect they're joking about it.

they are trying to 'out-holy' each other.

And it's not unhelpful, I am with you. (ask me about catholics and cannibalism...)

/and jebus said 'pray in a closet'
//oh right, he was gay
///cmon think! him and 12 dudes preaching peace and love to all?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/12/priest-allegedly-told-rape-vic ti m-this-is-what-god's-love-feels-like/
 
2012-06-30 03:22:31 PM
you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.
 
2012-06-30 03:25:35 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.


You want a group of tax-dodging freeloaders to have a voice in the political arena without paying their admission fee like everyone else.

Why do you love welfare queens?
 
2012-06-30 03:25:37 PM
Zoomaster: urban.derelict: Zoomaster: /How did he ever have time to win the Civil War and save the Union?

Men were men back then in the 17 sixties, they didn't have none of these tv and raydeeoh thingers...

/let me tell you 'bout Paul...big as a house, he was!

===============

I've met Paul, I've been to one of his restaurants where I sometime vacation.

[libertywebmarketingandseo.com image 402x336]


I LOVE that place (haven't been there since I was a kid though.)
 
2012-06-30 03:25:40 PM
what a bunch of maroons. it would not take very long for a crapload of churches and houses of worship across america to have to close their doors because they could not afford a new-found tax on their properties. then what do you have?

you have a crapload of pissed-off Ned Flanders that no longer have a place to re-inflate their world-weary souls every seven days. they won't put up with it and neither would you.

so you will have every little American Legion and V.F.W. and Firemen's Hall being rented for services. school auditoriums too if they can swing it. that means you'll have a crapload of people without a Hall to rent for their weddings, graduations and class reunions.

now you have a crapload of angry Ned Flanders along with a crapload of angry folks who can't get married, celebrate graduation, etcetera. surely you can see where this leads. it just gets uglier and uglier.

meanwhile most of these people are taxpayers whether or not they attend services on Sunday. they will rally together and protest the politicians who made the changes. cats will be living with dogs, ketchup will taste like mustard and all hell will reign down upon us.

people will worship in an open field, they don't care. if you want a country full of old churches that are empty and will eventually fail to the elements of weather and time then tax the crap out of them. just don't expect those taxes to be collected. peoples paychecks are not unlimited, the buck does stop somewhere. sooner or later we will all be paying higher property taxes as the townships have to absorb the costs of demolishing old churches and putting up protective fencing to keep children out.

as interest in religion slowly wanes you will have what you want: children raised in a faith-free environment. where they are not taught the importance of charity and acts of kindness. society will slowly decay, leaving us with a country filled with self-important greedy people that care for nothing more than making sure they get theirs.

then you can go after someone else you don't like, such as people over 6' tall, left handed people, those who stutter - you name it. no need to tolerate those that are different from you, why should you. slap a tax on them until they starve to death homeless. morans.
 
2012-06-30 03:26:48 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.


Shut up, pig-farker.
 
2012-06-30 03:27:49 PM
Good job guys, shut those churches down! As many as you can. You should probably start before the election just to be sure every knows what a good job you're doing.
 
2012-06-30 03:30:39 PM
Looks like you were successful at poisoning the well, subby. Great job. What a trainwreck.
 
2012-06-30 03:31:14 PM
This thread is turning into a Poe's Law exhibition.
 
2012-06-30 03:31:33 PM
KrispyKritter:

meanwhile most of these people are taxpayers whether or not they attend services on Sunday. they will rally together and protest the politicians who made the changes. cats will be living with dogs, ketchup will taste like mustard and all hell will reign down upon us.

people will worship in an open field, they don't care. if you want a country full of old churches that are empty and will eventually fail to the elements of weather and time then tax the crap out of them. just don't expect those taxes to be collected. peoples paychecks are not unlimited, the buck does stop somewhere. sooner or later we will all be paying higher property taxes as the townships have to absorb the costs of demolishing old churches and putting up protective fencing to keep children out.

as interest in religion slowly wanes you will have what you want: children raised in a faith-free environment. where they are not taught the importance of charity and acts of kindness. society will slowly decay, leaving us with a country filled with self-important greedy people that care for nothing more than making sure they get theirs.


So, people will turn out like today's Christians, no matter what? Cool.
 
2012-06-30 03:34:02 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.


"limits"? pay taxes like everyone else is limiting free speech?
 
2012-06-30 03:36:39 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.

Ok, here's the deal, churches must spent at least 75% of their funds on charitable activity. Real charitable activity, feeding people, housing the homeless (actual housing not temporary shelters), funding medical care etc. Deal? And I say that as someone who has no issue at all with most churches.
 
2012-06-30 03:37:36 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.

Lies are not freedom. Tax fraud is not protected free speech.
 
2012-06-30 03:47:18 PM
I alone am best: Good job guys, shut those churches down! As many as you can. You should probably start before the election just to be sure every knows what a good job you're doing.

Put your tampon back in. You just can't politicize from the pulpit.
 
2012-06-30 03:49:45 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.


Off your meds again?
 
2012-06-30 03:50:23 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.


LOL
 
2012-06-30 03:50:30 PM
Fart_Machine: relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.

Off your meds again?


i really do worry about that guy.
 
2012-06-30 03:54:43 PM
I alone am best: Good job guys, shut those churches down! As many as you can. You should probably start before the election just to be sure every knows what a good job you're doing.

Either you didn't read the article, or you don't understand tax-exempt status. Let me quote from IRS publication 1828:
All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
■ their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual,
■ they must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests,
■ they must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation,
■ they must not participate in, or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office, and
■ the organization's purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.
 
2012-06-30 04:03:15 PM
cato113: Dancin_In_Anson: HakunaMatata: shine a big bright light on all of them.

ALL of them?

Yes. Now, can you please explain why were you expecting a different answer?


Don't hold your breath.
 
2012-06-30 04:04:52 PM
As someone who engages in political activity at a church, but does so in a comparatively neutral way: I'm OK with that.

/We fight for marriage equality. We never, ever say "this is the way God wants you to vote". We do say "This is what we believe - that God made us all equal."
//Fine line, I know.
 
2012-06-30 04:06:35 PM
Fin-the-farking-ally.
 
2012-06-30 04:07:19 PM
I think any church that does more than operate a hall of worship should be taxed.

Once they abuse this loophole to get into land development, politics, lobbying, thrift stores, etc. they should be taxed same as all.

If you have a weekly television show where you solicit "donations" for your 50,000 sq ft "church" you should be taxed, and likely audited monthly.
 
2012-06-30 04:07:58 PM
Sabyen91: I've met Paul, I've been to one of his restaurants where I sometime vacation.

[libertywebmarketingandseo.com image 402x336]

I LOVE that place (haven't been there since I was a kid though.)


now that i have a 96 900 I would love to visit some someday soon. Furthest west I've been was Nashville in '96.

sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net
speeding at dawn in Virginia
May 18th 1996
with a backpack full
of warm beer we picked up at UDel
and half a pound of schwag stuffed
in the driver's side door
of a beat up baby blue 1976 Caddilac
with no ac and no radio
 
2012-06-30 04:09:09 PM
macadamnut:Lies are not freedom. Tax fraud is not protected free speech.

macadamnut:Lies are not freedom. Tax fraud is not protected free speech.

macadamnut:Lies are not freedom. Tax fraud is not protected free speech.
 
2012-06-30 04:09:17 PM
Exception Collection: As someone who engages in political activity at a church, but does so in a comparatively neutral way: I'm OK with that.

/We fight for marriage equality. We never, ever say "this is the way God wants you to vote". We do say "This is what we believe - that God made us all equal."
//Fine line, I know.


UCC?
 
2012-06-30 04:10:30 PM
Godscrack: Conservatives are always biatching about Obama not creating any jobs.

Now he will unleash an army of newly employed auditors to collect that holy cash.

God, I love this president.


Really, because in all the history I have read. Pi$$ing off the fundies to the point of them feeling threatenned has not ended very well.
 
2012-06-30 04:10:58 PM
KrispyKritter: what a bunch of maroons. it would not take very long for a crapload of churches and houses of worship across america to have to close their doors because they could not afford a new-found tax on their properties. then what do you have?

you have a crapload of pissed-off Ned Flanders that no longer have a place to re-inflate their world-weary souls every seven days. they won't put up with it and neither would you.

so you will have every little American Legion and V.F.W. and Firemen's Hall being rented for services. school auditoriums too if they can swing it. that means you'll have a crapload of people without a Hall to rent for their weddings, graduations and class reunions.

now you have a crapload of angry Ned Flanders along with a crapload of angry folks who can't get married, celebrate graduation, etcetera. surely you can see where this leads. it just gets uglier and uglier.

meanwhile most of these people are taxpayers whether or not they attend services on Sunday. they will rally together and protest the politicians who made the changes. cats will be living with dogs, ketchup will taste like mustard and all hell will reign down upon us.

people will worship in an open field, they don't care. if you want a country full of old churches that are empty and will eventually fail to the elements of weather and time then tax the crap out of them. just don't expect those taxes to be collected. peoples paychecks are not unlimited, the buck does stop somewhere. sooner or later we will all be paying higher property taxes as the townships have to absorb the costs of demolishing old churches and putting up protective fencing to keep children out.

as interest in religion slowly wanes you will have what you want: children raised in a faith-free environment. where they are not taught the importance of charity and acts of kindness. society will slowly decay, leaving us with a country filled with self-important greedy people that care for nothing more than making sure they get ...


Does it hurt being so sheltered and ignorant?
 
2012-06-30 04:11:25 PM
actually with Brucy Bruce in that pic it's gotta be ... 98.
 
2012-06-30 04:13:35 PM
relcec: you people want limits on speech simply because you think you might disagree with it.
what a bunch of petty, tyrannical, and dogmatic losers.
go kill yourselves.


Who left the back door open...?
 
2012-06-30 04:22:30 PM
pxsteel: Godscrack: Conservatives are always biatching about Obama not creating any jobs.

Now he will unleash an army of newly employed auditors to collect that holy cash.

God, I love this president.

Really, because in all the history I have read. Pi$$ing off the fundies to the point of them feeling threatenned has not ended very well.


Really, because if you read enough about the history of fundies you'd see that it really doesn't take that much to piss them off to the point of feeling threatened in the first place. They are all a bunch of insecure sanctimonious bags of shiat that cant accept the fact that someone might have a slightly different opinion about something, anything, and that's all it takes to make someone an outsider/threat and therefore should be destroyed. For that alone they deserve every bit of scrutiny coming their way and then some.
 
2012-06-30 04:30:14 PM
VJStinger: pxsteel: Godscrack: Conservatives are always biatching about Obama not creating any jobs.

Now he will unleash an army of newly employed auditors to collect that holy cash.

God, I love this president.

Really, because in all the history I have read. Pi$$ing off the fundies to the point of them feeling threatenned has not ended very well.

Really, because if you read enough about the history of fundies you'd see that it really doesn't take that much to piss them off to the point of feeling threatened in the first place. They are all a bunch of insecure sanctimonious bags of shiat that cant accept the fact that someone might have a slightly different opinion about something, anything, and that's all it takes to make someone an outsider/threat and therefore should be destroyed. For that alone they deserve every bit of scrutiny coming their way and then some.


All that does'nt change the fact that they have allot of wealth and quite frankly the fundies populas is armed to the teeth.

The Obama administration has enacted allot of change in the last two months. Fundies don't handle change very well.
 
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