PsiChick: Hahaha, aren't you funny. I'm waiting until I know this law is staying. The last thing I need is to have a pre-existing condition. I'm not rich and I never will be, so this really isn't something I can afford to screw up.

It will be staying. The Republicans have to get a White House, Senate, and House trifecta to repeal it. And even then, unless they abolish the filibuster (not very likely), they'll have to get 60 votes to repeal it.

I know some people are saying they can repeal the mandate with 51 Senate votes because it's a tax, and therefore can't be filibustered. But they don't see the big picture: if you repeal the mandate without also repealing the pre-existing condition discrimination ban, you'll bankrupt the insurance industry. Rational actors will just wait until they're sick to buy health insurance.

And even if the mandate can be repealed with 51 votes (and I'm not sure it really can), you still have to get 60 votes to repeal the pre-existing condition discrimination ban. I promise you, even the Republicans will not repeal the mandate unless they can also repeal the pre-existing condition discrimination ban.

I understand your caution. But Obamacare (and I use the term with a positive connotation) has overcome its greatest obstacle. It now has the Court's imprimatur, which will increase its popularity. And many popular provisions will be going into effect in the near future, which will increase its popularity even more. In August, people are gonna get their first health insurance rebate checks, for example. "Repeal and replace" isn't even gonna get past the repeal part.

What the fark? It seemed everyone around her murmured but she was shrieking.

jayhawk88: robsul82:What we need to do is invent some alternative that is as important as health care, and is something only the super rich can possibly afford. Maybe pay off a bunch of doctors to start telling their rich patients that humanity is evolving to a higher plane of existence, ascending to a higher state of mental being, and they can get in on it if they go through many expensive, complicated procedures. Feed them a bunch of vitamins and placebos and make them do a bunch of yoga and meditation or something. Every 6 months do some blood work that shows a marked increase in the midichlorians or whatever. No one ever actually ascends of course, but while experts believe that the human species must still evolve through several more generations before ascension can be obtained on a living host, they're quite certain that at the moment of death, those who have endured the rigors of these procedures will almost certainly ascend.

The only real danger I guess is that it might turn into a religion, or Scientology sues it out of existence, but you get some good writers on this I think you could make a go of it.

This is reminiscent of my plan to eliminate the deficit. What we need is a scam that appeals to rich folks the way the lottery appeals to the poor. Hence the Federal Tax Raffle. Tickets cost $1000 each ($1000? $5000? I'm open to suggestions.) Once a month there's a drawing and the winner never has to pay Federal income tax again as long as he lives. If you figure the top 1% will buy ten tickets each month and the rest of the top five percent one ticket a month , that around $50 billion a month, $600 billion a year in free money for the gummint. A dozen tax-free millionaires a year would be a small price to pay fpr that income stream.

You're welcome.

relcec:
do you know anything about that which you speak? it is individual insurance based in large part on actuarial data. I don't get to pay what you pay, I don't get to join your group plan, I don't get the discount you get from your employer, we all aren't going to be in one big group plan, you dumbf*ck.


I don't mean to burst your bubble too much, relcec, because you sure do seem to be having fun... but those statewide exchanges by which individuals can purchase insurance through without insurer support, many of them are already structured as large groups... so they are group plans, mind you not from employers... but yes, many of us will all be in one big group plan, you dumbf*ck.

DeltaPunch: mrshowrules: Diogenes: vernonFL: Is that what it sounds like when a 60 year old conservative woman has an orgasm?

It's never happened before, so it's tough to say.

Someone has just risen to the top of my list of people in the GOP that I absolutely hate.

Here's mine, what I believe are the worst of the worst:




Now with bonus "mean" Jean Schmidt.

I see the four dudes. Why no pic of Jean?

The hyperbolic imagery is good for the lulz, and isn't that the second best healthcare of all?

relcec: again "the individual mandate had been struck down thus denying millions of people affordable health care" is bullshiat. that never would have happened. what actually happened is the medicaid mandate was stuck down, denying millions of low income people healthcare at all.

but you go on cheering subby, because obama said he won and the mandate for insurance company profits was actually the important bit.

You're so full of shiat that it's dripping out of your nostrils.

heap: shamanwest: You know, Fark. If you're going to filter curse words, fine. You could at least have the filters match caps use.

it's like a sine wave of angry. revel in it.

I got a square wave, binary vibe. I need to loosen up my left brain.

Party Boy: GAT_00: Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the kind of person who represents the Republican party. Remember, vote Republican.

[i.imgur.com image 300x300]

Is that some lesbian?

relcec: this was literally the worst outcome imaginable, and it is telling that you are cheering for it. the people who were least able to afford it won't be insured. you're cheering for a ridiculous outcome subby. HCA's stock has gone up 20% in two days, people are going to be forced to become profit centers for the insurance companies, the rich are getting richer and the poor got f*cked again.

It really is bizarre watching Democrats and "progressives" cheering and celebrating over the upholding of a law literally written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies.

star_topology: B-bu-but premiums will go up under Obamacare!

[static6.businessinsider.com image 610x448]
No shiat, they've been going up since forever.

Now everyone can share in the fun! Whether they want to or not.

Mrtraveler01: relcec: Biological Ali: relcec: forcing me to personally buy a full cost healthplan for $6k a year that I don't f*cking want (because I couldn't possibly use enough meds and go to the doctor enough to make it worth my while)

I wonder; do statements like these represent an inability to rationally evaluate health insurance specifically, or are they indicative of a failure to comprehend the more general concept of expected utility altogether?

relatively young and healthy people like me without chronic medical issues behave rationally when we eschew the gold plated plan and stick with the catastrophic plan.
you're inability to judge the relative value of the plans offered to me and others like me, their respective prices, and the likelihood of an event that cost ten thousand, but not thirty thousand dollars or more is why you don't have a f*cking clue what you are talking about.

I've had a catastrophic plan since the beginning of law school. it has been 7 years, I've saved $35k over traditional plans. I could pay my 10k deductible 3 years straight with the money I've already saved. in short, as usual you don't know wtf you are talking about.

traditional plans offer little value to the young and healthy who have no chronic problems over catastrophic plans, unless they get to use pre tax dollars and their employer pays for 80% of the plan that the employer already gets a discount on over the individual buyer so they aren't the ones actually paying for the vast majority of it anyway.

I am 24 and I have the traditional one because I don't want to gamble my life on the offshot something does happen to me and I'm stuck with the bill.

People take risks over the stupidest things.

Like this?

"I'm healthy! I don't need insurance and I sure as sh*t don't f*cking want it! I'm a f*cking 21-year-old red blooded American motherf*cker and nothing bad will EVER happen to me! I'm healthy! I'm healthy! Why do I need insurance, I'm young and healthy!! Leave me alone! Now hold my beer..."

/that guy will Darwin and Murphy's Law himself into a hospital bill that will ruin him and he'll have no one to blame but will try anyway
//insurance. you hope you never have to use it but you'll be super glad you had it when the hammer falls on you from out of nowhere.

relcec: I mean you are 24, if anything happens it will be a car wreck. you aren't gonna get lung cancer or break a hip lying down in bed tonight.

Roughly a year and a half ago I suffered a severe femoral hip fracture in my left leg after slipping on black ice and falling. I was 28. It happens.

Bill Murray said I was weird: relcec: I mean you are 24, if anything happens it will be a car wreck. you aren't gonna get lung cancer or break a hip lying down in bed tonight.

Roughly a year and a half ago I suffered a severe femoral hip fracture in my left leg after slipping on black ice and falling. I was 28. It happens.

Good friend of mine's 17 year old son came down with a bad case of testicular cancer. $800,000 later, the kid made it.

relcec:

what are you gambling by buying catastrophic? that you won't immediately get leukemia, or hit by a bus, or shot, which are all fairly unlikely, before the savings can make up for the cost of a catastrophic event? I mean you are 24, if anything happens it will be a car wreck. you a ...

When I was 24, I got diagnosed with MS. Reality doesn't jive with your version of who needs healthcare... reality is not subject to your ideology... it just is what it is.

jigger: relcec: this was literally the worst outcome imaginable, and it is telling that you are cheering for it. the people who were least able to afford it won't be insured. you're cheering for a ridiculous outcome subby. HCA's stock has gone up 20% in two days, people are going to be forced to become profit centers for the insurance companies, the rich are getting richer and the poor got f*cked again.

It really is bizarre watching Democrats and "progressives" cheering and celebrating over the upholding of a law literally written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies.

The law is a compromise in many ways... the part you don't seem to get is that to Democrats and Progressives, compromise isn't a dirty word.

jigger: relcec: this was literally the worst outcome imaginable, and it is telling that you are cheering for it. the people who were least able to afford it won't be insured. you're cheering for a ridiculous outcome subby. HCA's stock has gone up 20% in two days, people are going to be forced to become profit centers for the insurance companies, the rich are getting richer and the poor got f*cked again.

It really is bizarre watching Democrats and "progressives" cheering and celebrating over the upholding of a law literally written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies.

Because Republicans really wanted UHC, right? Ya, they wanted to get rid of private insurance companies I'm sure of it.

Rent Party: Bill Murray said I was weird: relcec: I mean you are 24, if anything happens it will be a car wreck. you aren't gonna get lung cancer or break a hip lying down in bed tonight.

Roughly a year and a half ago I suffered a severe femoral hip fracture in my left leg after slipping on black ice and falling. I was 28. It happens.

Good friend of mine's 17 year old son came down with a bad case of testicular cancer. $800,000 later, the kid made it.

No no no, that just doesn't happen in the Conservative world. Unless you are poor. Or non-White? Are you one of those?

Rent Party: Bill Murray said I was weird: relcec: I mean you are 24, if anything happens it will be a car wreck. you aren't gonna get lung cancer or break a hip lying down in bed tonight.

Roughly a year and a half ago I suffered a severe femoral hip fracture in my left leg after slipping on black ice and falling. I was 28. It happens.

Good friend of mine's 17 year old son came down with a bad case of testicular cancer. $800,000 later, the kid made it.

A guy in my D&D group got Hodgkin's lymphoma when he was 22. Don't know how much it cost, but I know he was in treatment for two years and had multiple surgeries, so it couldn't have been cheap.

Biological Ali: relcec: I've had a catastrophic plan since the beginning of law school. it has been 7 years, I've saved $35k over traditional plans. I could pay my 10k deductible 3 years straight with the money I've already saved. in short, as usual you don't know wtf you are talking about.

At this point I can't even tell if you're being serious or not. If it's a joke, it's a pretty convoluted one. Now, I can understand the desire to not make it too obvious, but you've got to have a proper punchline in there somewhere.

I'm just surprised he isn't blaming everything on immigrants.

Diogenes: mrshowrules: Diogenes: vernonFL: Is that what it sounds like when a 60 year old conservative woman has an orgasm?

It's never happened before, so it's tough to say.

Someone has just risen to the top of my list of people in the GOP that I absolutely hate.

The top of my list is pretty crowded.

Keep adding them and hopefully the list will become so top-heavy it'll tip over and some unfortunate injuries and casualties may result.

Of course, they have the Cadillac health insurance plan, so what the hell do they care?

2wolves: relcec:

I think it was September of 2009 that anyone gave you any real attention except to mock you. How time flies.

Dish, dish, dish.

She's got a face that just radiates love and compassion, amirite?? Like a sunny morning.

Churchy LaFemme: [i48.tinypic.com image 320x240]
She's got a face that just radiates love and compassion, amirite?? Like a sunny morning.

I hope that isn't her 'O face'

You can quit with the "it's about giving people affordable health care!" line, nobody actually believes that, including you so just stop.

I too would have celebrated a victory for freedom if the SCOTUS had struck down ObamaCare, but alas it wasn't meant to be. I just take solace in the fact that I was correct about ObamaCare not being Constitutional under the commerce clause... A fact liberals should probably start admitting they were wrong about.

Comically the conservatives called it a tax, the liberals denied that, and now it's being declared Constitutional... As a tax.

randomjsa: You can quit with the "it's about giving people affordable health care!" line, nobody actually believes that, including you so just stop.

I too would have celebrated a victory for freedom if the SCOTUS had struck down ObamaCare, but alas it wasn't meant to be. I just take solace in the fact that I was correct about ObamaCare not being Constitutional under the commerce clause... A fact liberals should probably start admitting they were wrong about.

Comically the conservatives called it a tax, the liberals denied that, and now it's being declared Constitutional... As a tax.

"Somebody call for a Constitutional Scholar?"

randomjsa: You can quit with the "it's about giving people affordable health care!" line, nobody actually believes that, including you so just stop.

I too would have celebrated a victory for freedom if the SCOTUS had struck down ObamaCare, but alas it wasn't meant to be. I just take solace in the fact that I was correct about ObamaCare not being Constitutional under the commerce clause... A fact liberals should probably start admitting they were wrong about.

Comically the conservatives called it a tax, the liberals denied that, and now it's being declared Constitutional... As a tax.

Do you ever, ever get tired of being a hateful asshole? Of course you're the single biggest coward on this site, so I expect you'll avoid answering this, like you do to everyone else who calls out your BS.

She and other terrorists such as randomjsa should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for treason.

I saw a repub Congressman being interviewed on CNN this morning and he said "Fifty-four percent of Americans don't approve of Obamacare." The interviewer said "Yes, but that's because 15% of Americans disapprove because they think it doesn't go far enough," and he answered, I kid you not, "Let's not split hairs."

best part..... forever

jigger: It really is bizarre watching Democrats and "progressives" cheering and celebrating over the upholding of a law literally written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies.

Because the insurance companies aren't going anywhere. You'd have to get rid of the most conservative four-fifths of Congress before you could propose something that would eliminate private insurance as the primary means of financing medical care.

GIVEN that no healthcare reform could have passed Congress except that which relied on private insurance, this was about as good as it could get. It's a step in the right direction anyway.

I think people like reclec are comical. You started law school 7 years ago and you still don't have a job with real health insurance as a benefit? What the fark is wrong with you? You're 29, you're not "young" anymore, dipshiat.

I'm 31, trust me. Get a real job, get real insurance, grow the fark up, and get some personal responsibility.

My "taxes" went up by exactly nothing yesterday. Why? Because I'm a grown-ass man and I already have insurance.

The Homer Tax: My "taxes" went up by exactly nothing yesterday. Why? Because I'm a grown-ass man and I already have insurance.

and you don't make enough to be hit with the non-mandate related tax increases in the bill ;)

randomjsa: Comically the conservatives called it a tax, the liberals denied that, and now it's being declared Constitutional... As a tax.

Actually, that isn't what the court said at all. Roberts' opinion is that it is NOT a tax, but a tax penalty.

That's why Roberts rejected the notion that the Anti-Injunction Act would prevent the question from being decided until 2014 - he said for the purposes of that law, it is a penalty and not a tax.

In short, something can derive from Congress' authority to tax without BEING a tax. A tax credit would be a good example - it's clearly not a tax, but it's Constitutionally permissible because it derives from the authority to tax. Likewise, a tax penalty is not a tax, but it derives from the power to tax.

skullkrusher: The Homer Tax: My "taxes" went up by exactly nothing yesterday. Why? Because I'm a grown-ass man and I already have insurance.

and you don't make enough to be hit with the non-mandate related tax increases in the bill ;)

Serious question: I might; what are the income specific tax raises in the bill? All I rember is nonsense like the tanning tax and the medical equipment tax.

Bill Murray said I was weird: randomjsa: You can quit with the "it's about giving people affordable health care!" line, nobody actually believes that, including you so just stop.

I too would have celebrated a victory for freedom if the SCOTUS had struck down ObamaCare, but alas it wasn't meant to be. I just take solace in the fact that I was correct about ObamaCare not being Constitutional under the commerce clause... A fact liberals should probably start admitting they were wrong about.

Comically the conservatives called it a tax, the liberals denied that, and now it's being declared Constitutional... As a tax.

Do you ever, ever get tired of being a hateful asshole? Of course you're the single biggest coward on this site, so I expect you'll avoid answering this, like you do to everyone else who calls out your BS.

The ignore button exists for a reason, and he is that reason.

Seriously, he starts out with the obvious troll-baiting of saying the bill isn't at all for what the damned bill is exactly for... he is a sad, lonely man who needs conflict to feel fulfilled. Pity him, ignore him, whatever... but do yourself the favor of not interacting with him... it doesn't go anywhere good.... it isn't like he's going to have meaningful discourse all of a sudden.

The Homer Tax: skullkrusher: The Homer Tax: My "taxes" went up by exactly nothing yesterday. Why? Because I'm a grown-ass man and I already have insurance.

and you don't make enough to be hit with the non-mandate related tax increases in the bill ;)

Serious question: I might; what are the income specific tax raises in the bill? All I rember is nonsense like the tanning tax and the medical equipment tax.

These are the "hidden", indirect ones


Don't know if this is a complete list of the direct taxes in the bill but it covers the big one

skullkrusher: The Homer Tax: skullkrusher: The Homer Tax: My "taxes" went up by exactly nothing yesterday. Why? Because I'm a grown-ass man and I already have insurance.

and you don't make enough to be hit with the non-mandate related tax increases in the bill ;)

Serious question: I might; what are the income specific tax raises in the bill? All I rember is nonsense like the tanning tax and the medical equipment tax.

These are the "hidden", indirect ones


Don't know if this is a complete list of the direct taxes in the bill but it covers the big one

the indirect ones can impact people across most income groups, the second link is mostly $200/$250k+

skullkrusher: The Homer Tax: skullkrusher: The Homer Tax: My "taxes" went up by exactly nothing yesterday. Why? Because I'm a grown-ass man and I already have insurance.

and you don't make enough to be hit with the non-mandate related tax increases in the bill ;)

Serious question: I might; what are the income specific tax raises in the bill? All I rember is nonsense like the tanning tax and the medical equipment tax.

These are the "hidden", indirect ones


Don't know if this is a complete list of the direct taxes in the bill but it covers the big one

Wow, after reading that... it seems as though people making over 200k may pay an extra whole percent... and that (finally) this country's tax code is starting to realize that we were built on a foundation of hard work, so at the very least, we should give work and investment near equal footing when it comes to not robbing workers so we can continue to coddle investors.

firefly212: Wow, after reading that... it seems as though people making over 200k may pay an extra whole percent

perhaps you should read it again?

firefly212: and that (finally) this country's tax code is starting to realize that we were built on a foundation of hard work, so at the very least, we should give work and investment near equal footing when it comes to not robbing workers so we can continue to coddle investors.

yeah, a married couple making $250k+ a year is the idle, investment class.