heinrich66: Can we be done with 'an historic' please? This is not England. We do not drop our Hs.

How about 'an hysterectomy'?
'an hysterical reaction'?
'an hope'?
'an horticultural soiree'?
'an homeless guy'?

Note. When we *do* drop our Hs (an hour ago), we use 'an'.

Speaking as a person who uses Controlled Vocabularies as a job requirement: Both are perfectly acceptable. "A Historic" is more correct as given by written English, but "An Historic" is how it sounds when most people say it, just due to how your mouth changes shape when speaking the A-to-an-H sound.

We had to dress up as famous Kansans for one day each year in grade school. In a classroom of 30, there would be 10 Ikes, 10 Amelia Earharts, 5 Bob Doles, 3 Buster Keatons and 2 Kirstie Alleys. I think one kid was Joe Walsh.

/csb

Thanks, PocketNinja. And to quote from Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot: [Rush:] "I defy you to name one government program that has worked and alleviated the problem it was created to solve." [Al responds by quoting conservatives]: "George Will...the Interstate Highway System ('the most successful public works program in the history of the world')."

Clearly, Eisenhower was a commie. Each state should have been allowed to keep its sovereignty and build its own highways (or not).

beta_plus: Remember - the one time cost of the interstate highway system for a public good is exactly the same as an endless entitlement to pay for people who refuse to keep their weight under control.

If you say otherwise, you are a racist.


Remember, We only paid for the interstate highway system one time at the beginning, and we've never had to spend another dime maintaining it in any way shape or form... [/sarcasm]

roe v wade was in 73' I think... and wasnt a bill...

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Fade up from Black to blurry photo of bald Ike as the background. Foreground video is "ethnic" families driving into the suburbs to loot.
SFX: Ominous music

Narration:
They're coming...for you and your family. And 'Ike' wants to help them do it with YOUR tax dollars.

CUT TO: Photo of Ike superimposed over Berlin. Photoshop Ike shaking hands with Hitler as Stalin looks on smiling

Ike's so-called "Socialist Superhighway" is just like the ones HITLER built.

CUT TO: Ike photoshopped in a dress dancing with a fancy lad

Yes, those roads he drove on while he was hiding in England on D-Day with his "aide" -- a man kept around to take care of Ike's "every need."

CUT TO: Crying Eagle watching the Constitution burn

Can we afford Ike's Socialist Agenda stealing your family's money to make it easier for the poors to come to YOUR town? Clearly, the answer is "NEIN!"

I'm stealing that.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Fade up from Black to blurry photo of bald Ike as the background. Foreground video is "ethnic" families driving into the suburbs to loot.
SFX: Ominous music

Narration:
They're coming...for you and your family. And 'Ike' wants to help them do it with YOUR tax dollars.

CUT TO: Photo of Ike superimposed over Berlin. Photoshop Ike shaking hands with Hitler as Stalin looks on smiling

Ike's so-called "Socialist Superhighway" is just like the ones HITLER built.

CUT TO: Ike photoshopped in a dress dancing with a fancy lad

Yes, those roads he drove on while he was hiding in England on D-Day with his "aide" -- a man kept around to take care of Ike's "every need."

CUT TO: Crying Eagle watching the Constitution burn

Can we afford Ike's Socialist Agenda stealing your family's money to make it easier for the poors to come to YOUR town? Clearly, the answer is "NEIN!"

THIS IS WHAT REPUBLICANS REALLY BELIEVE

This will fail. Name ONE government program that ever worked. Just one.

Giltric: Designed to move troops and military hardware quickly across the continent......commerce was the line they fed the sheeple it also helped give government more power via the commerce clause.

Yeah, well, we'll see who's laughing when the Canadians invade and we need to get troops up from Fort Gordon and Fort Riley in a hurry.

what if you're discussing a historical event versus the ahistorical?

where are your ans now?

lohphat: petec: I drive the full length of I587 every day, so I'm getting a kick ..

//all 1.4 miles

I wonder which US interstate is the shortest, i587 or i380.

/too lazy to check

I-375 in Michigan is the shortest signed route at 1.06 miles.
I-878 in NY is 0.7 miles, but is unsigned.

SOCIALISSSSMMMWWWHHHRRRGRBL!!!

Voiceofreason01: I like not paying $30 per pound for grapes and $50 for a carton of OJ.

guess you just don't like grapes and OJ all that much, do you?

Sapper_Topo: ginandbacon: A

A historic. I can't stand it anymore!

Purely dependent on regional dialect. Just like "An hypothesis" or "A hypothesis" H words over 3 syllables are treated differently due to certain regions pronunciation of the hard H versus soft H sound.

No, it's really not. Nobody in this country says 'istory. It's just flat out wrong. It's as bad as saying between you and I. I just can't anymore.


But it's not flat out wrong - It's perfectly acceptable to use either. Another example is, "An heroic act", vs "a heroic act"; both are acceptable.

You're acting like this breaks a rule of English or grammar, which it does not. It's just choice.

Voiceofreason01: The US economy rolls on the wheels of semi-trucks crossing the country on large, high-speed interstate highways.

I've got your raging semi, right 'ere! Ay!

Wow. Just...Wow.

I'm not gonna name names, but a lot of you really, really need to turn off the computer and go outside for a while. Try talking to other people. Get an ice cream. Go shopping for some new sweatpants. Something.

heinrich66: Can we be done with 'an historic' please? This is not England. We do not drop our Hs.

How about 'an hysterectomy'?
'an hysterical reaction'?
'an hope'?
'an horticultural soiree'?
'an homeless guy'?

Note. When we *do* drop our Hs (an hour ago), we use 'an'.

Yes... we use "an" when it begins with a vowel sound in a SPOKEN word, because it's phonetically awkward to transition from the "a" to another vowel without a consonant to buffer it. Even the SAME vowel. Try saying "a apple". The "a" has to be choked back like you're gagging, or it sounds like one word- "ayapple".

The oddity is "an" is a spoken feature or pronunciation, yet got formalized in written language. Odd because spellings in English typically have utter disregard for pronunciation anyways, keeping an archaic spelling that followed a pronunciation or system of spelling vs pronunciation that went obsolete LONG ago (the spelling of "knight" made sense centuries ago).

Typically we don't transcribe how a speaker might pronounce a word. Some people pronounce "ask" as "axe". It's objectively different, but lexiconographers do NOT pass judgement of "right" and "wrong", most of English is "wrong" bastardized mutations of the original words. The spelling is NOT changed to follow pronunciation.

Except with "an". Why we don't just write it as "a" regardless of the following word and let people pronounce it how they will is one of those "why? because fark you, that's why!" idiosyncrasies of English.

medius: what if you're discussing a historical event versus the ahistorical?

where are your ans now?

Slight pause or, more likely, naturally (and unconsciously) use (or switch to) a schwa pronunciation of the indefinite article a.

Sign near my house

heinrich66: Can we be done with 'an historic' please? This is not England. We do not drop our Hs.

How about 'an hysterectomy'?
'an hysterical reaction'?
'an hope'?
'an horticultural soiree'?
'an homeless guy'?

Note. When we *do* drop our Hs (an hour ago), we use 'an'.

You do drop your Hs. This one always bugs me "an herb", the H is supposed to be sounded not dropped unless you are speaking French.

ginandbacon: Sapper_Topo: ginandbacon: A

A historic. I can't stand it anymore!

Purely dependent on regional dialect. Just like "An hypothesis" or "A hypothesis" H words over 3 syllables are treated differently due to certain regions pronunciation of the hard H versus soft H sound.

No, it's really not. Nobody in this country says 'istory. It's just flat out wrong. It's as bad as saying between you and I. I just can't anymore.



Sparkley Prog Rockers defy you.

FlashHarry: jesus. can you imagine a republican even proposing to spend money on infrastructure today? he'd be drummed out of the party as a communist!

well yes. yes i can.

Torrent of Rubbish: We had to dress up as famous Kansans for one day each year in grade school. In a classroom of 30, there would be 10 Ikes, 10 Amelia Earharts, 5 Bob Doles, 3 Buster Keatons and 2 Kirstie Alleys. I think one kid was Joe Walsh.

/csb

I think old Joe is from Ohio, isn't he?

/From Ft. Scott.

friendinpa: Wow. Just...Wow.

I'm not gonna name names, but a lot of you really, really need to turn off the computer and go outside for a while. Try talking to other people. Get an ice cream. Go shopping for some new sweatpants. Something.

You're just like big government. Always telling free citizens what to do!

you know who else believed in and built these high speed roadways?

You know who else liked fast roads to move military equipment long distances?

In the name of Christian Capitalism it is imperative that we repeal Eisenhighway

We were all much better off driving our Model T's along muddy rutted dirt roads. It was good enough for great-grandpa, well then its good enough for me.

As long as we're threadjacking to "grammar"...

• juncture loss (napron, nadder, and --sort of-- norange)

It isn't grammar, or even orthography. It's phonetics.


/ extra credit: historic vs.historical

marsoft: This one always bugs me "an herb", the H is supposed to be sounded not dropped unless you are speaking French.

Yes!

<eddie_izzard.jpg>

/ oui

and on this day in 1999 i got into a car accident :(

perigee: ginandbacon: Sapper_Topo: ginandbacon: A

A historic. I can't stand it anymore!

Purely dependent on regional dialect. Just like "An hypothesis" or "A hypothesis" H words over 3 syllables are treated differently due to certain regions pronunciation of the hard H versus soft H sound.

No, it's really not. Nobody in this country says 'istory. It's just flat out wrong. It's as bad as saying between you and I. I just can't anymore.

[img11.nnm.ru image 600x467]

Sparkley Prog Rockers defy you.

And you and I climb, crossing the shapes of the morning.
And you and I climb, over the sun for the river.
And you and I climb, clearer, towards the movement.
And you and I called over valleys of endless seas.

Not a problem. Both are subjects in the song's phrasings. And it's fine to begin a sentence with "and."

Mock26: All of you farkers who foam at the mouth in rage when you think of socialism do the rest of us a favor and stay the fark off of our socialist highways!

Socialism? We're the ones paying for them. They are ours to use.

ginandbacon: Between you and I, you are just wrong.

You and I may disagree, but between you and me, I think this is the correct usage.

I certainly do hope that when Mitt Romney is elected President this November, one of his first acts will be to decommission the Communist atrocity known as the Interstate Highway System and plow them all under so that honest, hard-working Americans can return to the land as God intended. There is no earthly reason why anyone should ever have to travel more than 10 miles from their home.

TXEric: Torrent of Rubbish: We had to dress up as famous Kansans for one day each year in grade school. In a classroom of 30, there would be 10 Ikes, 10 Amelia Earharts, 5 Bob Doles, 3 Buster Keatons and 2 Kirstie Alleys. I think one kid was Joe Walsh.

/csb

I think old Joe is from Ohio, isn't he?

/From Ft. Scott.

It looks like he was born in Wichita but grew up in Columbus. I guess Little Billy wanted to be a musician, so it was either barely-Kansan Joe Walsh or Martina McBride. Either way, he's wearing a wig...I guess it's just down to hair color preference.

grinding_journalist

Mock26: All of you farkers who foam at the mouth in rage when you think of socialism do the rest of us a favor and stay the fark off of our socialist highways!

Socialism? We're the ones paying for them. They are ours to use.

yeah, but all those people that don't pay any taxes use them to drive across states in their black cadillacs to buy cracks.

It's never "An Historic" no matter what.

The only time "An" is used is in case the following word begins with a dominant vowel sound.

An hour

An herb (Modern English)

A herb, with the 'H' given emphasis (Traditional English)

If you are going to use "An historic" it will come out sounding "An Istoric" - in which case, my Danish ancestors, including those who settled "Angle's Land" (Now, England) are pissed that you've forgotten that English is a Germanic language, not Indo-European, but if you want to sound pretentious, and be flat WRONG, please, continue.

/Not a grammar Nazi anymore, but this is the only thing aside from the Hipster-ass input of 'Whilst' to Modern English (what we speak in America) which DOESN'T carry the insistent meter utilized in The Queen's English/Traditional English.

This is America, and (as the British state) 'We speak English, they speak American. They are not the same thing.'

Oh c'mon now....Ike's real agenda was to cull the herd.

Why else would he have supported a project that produced long, straight highways that ran endlessly? So lots and lots of drivers would fall asleep at the wheel and crash/burn....that's why!

Cull the herd, man.

Oh, and BTW...

"an" harmonica (quoted from Charles Emerson Winchester)