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(Guardian)   Americans unable to explain Obamacare, nor why they hate it   (guardian.co.uk ) divider line 287
    More: Interesting, obamacare  
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3132 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jun 2012 at 9:13 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-29 11:26:20 AM  

ChemicalRummy: I'm living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford health insurance. But now I can get vouchers to subsidize a plan that I'm forced to purchase from these health insurance bandits; so they'll get to suckle from the sweet government titty, and I'll have to eat beans and ramen to come up with whatever amount the government doesn't cover.


Except if you can't afford it... you're exempt. Also, if you don't make enough to meet IRS filing requirements ($9,500), you're exempt.
 
2012-06-29 11:26:37 AM  

I_C_Weener: Healthcare costs are astronomical...lets reward the CEOs and companies with 30 million new customers...by fiat.


So first the RW was upset because they claimed ACA was a government takeover of healthcare. Now you're upset because it isn't?
 
2012-06-29 11:26:56 AM  

Serious Black: So what would you have done differently?


Made it abundantly clear that the onus for one's health is primarily on the individual.

If all we had to deal with was random catastrophic diseases that hit people out of the blue, covering everybody would be a piece of cake - but what we're paying a ton of money for now is entirely preventable lifestyle diseases. Medicare's annual bill for just diabetes (and its associated conditions) is $45 billion.

Oversimplifying here...what I'd have is a hybrid of single-payer for prevention and free-market for lifestyle diseases.

Kill the food stamp program and replace it with a food program. That's going to be more street-labor intensive, but there won't be as many desk jockeys needed to assess eligibility - who's going to want to rip off a system if all they can get out of it is broccoli? But right now we give poor folks benefit cards, and the people trying to stretch that card for all it's worth are diverted to the cheapest calorie sources - processed crap. They get fat, they get diabetes....aaaaand then they need Medicaid. I'm just cynical enough to think there are a great many people in Washington and state capitals who like this state of affairs just fine.

Phase out Medicare. The blue-hairs like it because it does take care of their needs, but it's bleeding way too much in fraud and waste. It's like blowing out a birthday candle with a wind tunnel. Vouchers are preferable, but only under the condition that participating insurers keep their fraud losses below 1% - right now it's estimated in the mid-single digits.

If it's political suicide to phase out Medicare, at the very least allow money recovered from fraud cases to be refunded to taxpayers instead of poured right back into the fund that's being stolen blind. This'll light a political fire under investigators to catch more crooks, instead of the current system where the political incentive is to pay the claims now and ask questions later.
 
2012-06-29 11:27:38 AM  
Ooo.. I know. Maybe it's because they keep spelling it Obamacare
 
2012-06-29 11:28:44 AM  
Heh. The upside is watching the Fark Lefties spin the hell out of this. Awesome.

/Hee hee!
 
2012-06-29 11:29:10 AM  

mrshowrules: I_C_Weener: Also, Obama was naive saying it wasn't a tax. He will find himself defending that for the remainder of this year.

Well it doesn't kick in until 2014. Which means he hasn't increased taxes in his first term. Technically, if everyone gets insurance by 2014, no fines (tax increases).


True. He also glosses over the other actual tax increases that kick in starting next year though. For one...taxes on medical devices. I don't know if it is all of them, but inhaler extenders are medical devices, as are crutches, and wheelchairs.

Plus, there is a penalty in the plan for having the audacity to purchase a "cadillac" health insurance plan even if it is the only one your employer provides. I find that offensive...even if it doesn't kick in until 2014.
 
2012-06-29 11:29:29 AM  

magusdevil: So you hate it why again? Because it saves you money?


Well it is not ideal so therefore we should keep the status quo.

Seriously I would love single payer, but at least this is a step in the right direction. And if people were screaming socialism about this plan, I can't even imagine the froth that would be stirred up if single payer was proposed. There is exactly a 0 chance of that happening in the near future.
 
2012-06-29 11:30:23 AM  

Gulper Eel: Phase out Medicare. The blue-hairs like it because it does take care of their needs, but it's bleeding way too much in fraud and waste. It's like blowing out a birthday candle with a wind tunnel. Vouchers are preferable


Why are vouchers preferable to the current Medicare system?
 
2012-06-29 11:31:27 AM  
If your insurance company can't deny you for a pre-existing condition, thank Obamacare.

If you can stay under your parent's insurance until you are 26, thank Obamacare.

If your insurance company has to pay 80% of its premiums back to you in the form of benefits, thank Obamacare.

If you are can't get employer health insurance but can participate in a larger health care insurance pool, thank Obamacare.

If you get financial help from the Government in getting health care insurance, thank Obamacare.

If you are fined/taxed for not having insurance when you should be able to afford it, blame Romney, the Republicans for coming up with the idea of an individual mandate and blame Chief Justice Roberts for upholding it.
 
2012-06-29 11:31:58 AM  

Spad31: Heh. The upside is watching the Fark Lefties spin the hell out of this. Awesome.

/Hee hee!


I'm a lefty and I'm not spinning a damn thing. We needed single payer. We needed to nationalize health care. LIKE EVERY OTHER GOT DAMN COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DOES IT ALREADY you farking asswit.

Instead, thanks to the Tea Bagging asshats we get this watered down screw-everyone joke.

And despite my annoyance with Obama for not framing the arguments properly, I still know who the real criminals in this were: Republicans.

Obstructionist lying asshats who were out to destroy Obama, and if that meant screwing with America to do it, fine and dandy.
 
2012-06-29 11:32:06 AM  

RandomExcess: At least one person here gets it.

Invincible: RandomExcess: It is immoral to use the force of law to compel people into the private market.

Yup, which is why the service should be provided directly by the government but since that wasn't possible in your whack-a-doodle political climate, this is the next best thing. What is totally immoral and beyond the pale is to leave the health of your citizens completely in the hands of an unregulated private market.


So you are FOR single payer? Or are you for government run healthcare?
 
2012-06-29 11:33:12 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Seriously I would love single payer, but at least this is a step in the right direction. And if people were screaming socialism about this plan, I can't even imagine the froth that would be stirred up if single payer was proposed. There is exactly a 0 chance of that happening in the near future.


I still think it was foolish to not set up HCR such that people could simply buy into Medicare early. I think it would have passed like that.
 
2012-06-29 11:33:19 AM  

qorkfiend: Why are vouchers preferable to the current Medicare system?


For one, it's a lot harder for a crook to steal from millions of people one at a time than to just send Medicare the right billing codes and then kick back to watch the checks roll in.
 
2012-06-29 11:34:03 AM  
I overheard a table of white raisins talking about Obama this morning. It was stunning in that nothing they said had any basis in reality, except that we are on a planet called Earth in a country informally known as America and the president is a black guy named Obama. Other than that everything they said was pure delusion. It was like a wrinklier, more embalmed version of Fox News.

The high point was when they blamed Obama for "stirring up all the racism against himself".
 
2012-06-29 11:34:43 AM  

Generation_D: Explaining the Act should have been 3 years ago.


He did.
 
2012-06-29 11:34:58 AM  

I_C_Weener: mrshowrules: I_C_Weener: Also, Obama was naive saying it wasn't a tax. He will find himself defending that for the remainder of this year.

Well it doesn't kick in until 2014. Which means he hasn't increased taxes in his first term. Technically, if everyone gets insurance by 2014, no fines (tax increases).

True. He also glosses over the other actual tax increases that kick in starting next year though. For one...taxes on medical devices. I don't know if it is all of them, but inhaler extenders are medical devices, as are crutches, and wheelchairs.

Plus, there is a penalty in the plan for having the audacity to purchase a "cadillac" health insurance plan even if it is the only one your employer provides. I find that offensive...even if it doesn't kick in until 2014.


How hard is the GOP going to fight this? When are they going to just give up? Doesn't Obama get to do at least one big thing that they have to shut the fark about and let happen.

They do not have a public mandate to derail the Government over this issue.
 
2012-06-29 11:35:02 AM  
Question for thought; if you choose to pay the tax rather than buy medical insurance and then you get hit with major illness/accident would you still be eligible for the financial ruin this program is designed to prevent???
 
2012-06-29 11:35:57 AM  

Bloody William: ChemicalRummy: I'm living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford health insurance. But now I can get vouchers to subsidize a plan that I'm forced to purchase from these health insurance bandits; so they'll get to suckle from the sweet government titty, and I'll have to eat beans and ramen to come up with whatever amount the government doesn't cover.

Except if you can't afford it... you're exempt. Also, if you don't make enough to meet IRS filing requirements ($9,500), you're exempt.


Heh heh heh. Then what was the point of the bill? I thought all Obama's populist red-meat speeches were about the people you mentioned.
 
2012-06-29 11:38:13 AM  

monoski: Question for thought; if you choose to pay the tax rather than buy medical insurance and then you get hit with major illness/accident would you still be eligible for the financial ruin this program is designed to prevent???


You can still go to the emergency room, and you could even buy health insurance since there's a ban on pre-existing conditions. It might be a bit pricier than if you had bought it before you got sick, but hey; personal responsibility.
 
2012-06-29 11:38:23 AM  

Gulper Eel: qorkfiend: Why are vouchers preferable to the current Medicare system?

For one, it's a lot harder for a crook to steal from millions of people one at a time than to just send Medicare the right billing codes and then kick back to watch the checks roll in.


especially if everyone refuses to accept the vouchers.
 
2012-06-29 11:39:41 AM  

qorkfiend: Gulper Eel: Phase out Medicare. The blue-hairs like it because it does take care of their needs, but it's bleeding way too much in fraud and waste. It's like blowing out a birthday candle with a wind tunnel. Vouchers are preferable

Why are vouchers preferable to the current Medicare system?


Because you can use them for healthcare or private schooling.
 
2012-06-29 11:40:48 AM  
At it's most basic, it allows for those who otherwise wouldn't get health insurance (me for my increased risk of MS, my buddies for increased risk of cancer/heart disease) to have the ability to get health insurance.

Now this doesn't mean at all that we're looking for a free ride, as health insurance isn't free at all, just affordable. Affordable for all those people who would've previously died on the streets because they couldn't afford that life saving operation. Affordable for all those that will have a fluke medical emergency and will have something to help them cover the costs instead of destroying their future. And affordable for those college students and grad students who may not be able to find a job in this economy but can still qualify to be on the insurance of their parents as they live with them and job hunt.

Now, if you go on about how America is so surefire free and awesome and the most patriotic country in the world, I will slap you silly for being surefire wrong and "real american-y", but if you say that we may have lost our way but stuff like this will help get us there again, then I will buy you a beer. America prides itself on being the best in the world, yet we do everything in our powers to screw over the lower classes of our own citizens. Healthcare is but one step in improving ourselves as a country to reach that level of greatness we seem to think we've already achieved
 
2012-06-29 11:41:26 AM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Any relation to the recent story with video that several people attending an anti-Karl Rove protest were asked who Karl Rove is and didn't have an answer?


Any relation to that one guy who did that thing that one time? Because I heard he was a liberal, and that makes everything bad.
 
2012-06-29 11:42:43 AM  

Generation_D: Spad31: Heh. The upside is watching the Fark Lefties spin the hell out of this. Awesome.

/Hee hee!

I'm a lefty and I'm not spinning a damn thing. We needed single payer. We needed to nationalize health care. LIKE EVERY OTHER GOT DAMN COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DOES IT ALREADY you farking asswit.

Instead, thanks to the Tea Bagging asshats we get this watered down screw-everyone joke.

And despite my annoyance with Obama for not framing the arguments properly, I still know who the real criminals in this were: Republicans.

Obstructionist lying asshats who were out to destroy Obama, and if that meant screwing with America to do it, fine and dandy.


HA! See?! You're exactly the predicted response! Thank you!
 
2012-06-29 11:43:15 AM  

Serious Black: RandomExcess: It is immoral to use the force of law to compel people into the private market.

Like compelling people into the market of serving black people food, right?


You want to force all restaurants to serve fried chicken?
 
2012-06-29 11:43:23 AM  

mrshowrules: I_C_Weener: mrshowrules: I_C_Weener: Also, Obama was naive saying it wasn't a tax. He will find himself defending that for the remainder of this year.

Well it doesn't kick in until 2014. Which means he hasn't increased taxes in his first term. Technically, if everyone gets insurance by 2014, no fines (tax increases).

True. He also glosses over the other actual tax increases that kick in starting next year though. For one...taxes on medical devices. I don't know if it is all of them, but inhaler extenders are medical devices, as are crutches, and wheelchairs.

Plus, there is a penalty in the plan for having the audacity to purchase a "cadillac" health insurance plan even if it is the only one your employer provides. I find that offensive...even if it doesn't kick in until 2014.

How hard is the GOP going to fight this? When are they going to just give up? Doesn't Obama get to do at least one big thing that they have to shut the fark about and let happen.

They do not have a public mandate to derail the Government over this issue.


Why do you equate me with the GOP. The headline is about America. I'm American. Can't I exercise my God given right to complain?

But, no, the GOP is not dropping it. Yesterday made that even more certain. It will energize those who were "Meh" for Romney into "Defeat him!" against Obama. It is the equivalent of the 2004 "Stop gay rights!" crap.

It is...politics.
 
2012-06-29 11:43:48 AM  

Spad31: Generation_D: Spad31: Heh. The upside is watching the Fark Lefties spin the hell out of this. Awesome.

/Hee hee!

I'm a lefty and I'm not spinning a damn thing. We needed single payer. We needed to nationalize health care. LIKE EVERY OTHER GOT DAMN COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DOES IT ALREADY you farking asswit.

Instead, thanks to the Tea Bagging asshats we get this watered down screw-everyone joke.

And despite my annoyance with Obama for not framing the arguments properly, I still know who the real criminals in this were: Republicans.

Obstructionist lying asshats who were out to destroy Obama, and if that meant screwing with America to do it, fine and dandy.

HA! See?! You're exactly the predicted response! Thank you!


Well, honest responses are indeed predictable.
 
2012-06-29 11:44:05 AM  

I_C_Weener: It will energize those who were "Meh" for Romney into "Defeat him!" against Obama.


Anyone who got this derpy over the PPACA was already "Defeat him!" against Obama.
 
2012-06-29 11:44:20 AM  

monoski: Question for thought; if you choose to pay the tax rather than buy medical insurance and then you get hit with major illness/accident would you still be eligible for the financial ruin this program is designed to prevent???


I believe you can just get insurance at that point, since they can't deny you based on pre-existing conditions. So no, you should be okay.
 
2012-06-29 11:44:51 AM  
I still say the PPACA was structured to improve healthcare, but be just sh*tty enough so in about a decade, America says, "F*ck this sh*t!" and adopts a single payer system.

So for you on the left going, "Meh, it's not single payer," play the long game. This is the gateway to single payer. Now let's get on it and make sure that's what happens.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:47 AM  
I just hope this doesnt bring out all the righties to vote and we have a House, Senate, Presidency controlled by the Republicans. We dont need another huge swing in government policy to shake up the confidence of the markets.
 
2012-06-29 11:49:02 AM  

Snarfangel: qorkfiend: Gulper Eel: Phase out Medicare. The blue-hairs like it because it does take care of their needs, but it's bleeding way too much in fraud and waste. It's like blowing out a birthday candle with a wind tunnel. Vouchers are preferable

Why are vouchers preferable to the current Medicare system?

Because you can use them for healthcare or private schooling.


I'm using mine to buy hooch and cigs.
 
2012-06-29 11:49:49 AM  

Bacontastesgood: I overheard a table of white raisins talking about Obama this morning. It was stunning in that nothing they said had any basis in reality, except that we are on a planet called Earth in a country informally known as America and the president is a black guy named Obama. Other than that everything they said was pure delusion. It was like a wrinklier, more embalmed version of Fox News.

The high point was when they blamed Obama for "stirring up all the racism against himself".


Oh wow, so they were openly resenting him for being "uppity."
 
2012-06-29 11:50:38 AM  

somedude210: At it's most basic, it allows for those who otherwise wouldn't get health insurance (me for my increased risk of MS, my buddies for increased risk of cancer/heart disease) to have the ability to get health insurance.


That's good for you.

But what do you mean exactly by this "increased risk" your buddies have - is that genetic or due to something within their control?

And what about those millions of three-pack-a-day fatasses out there? Does being a bloated tub of goo with lungs like a 99-year-old coal miner count as the same kind of pre-existing condition as yours?
 
2012-06-29 11:51:31 AM  

derpdeederp: I just hope this doesnt bring out all the righties to vote and we have a House, Senate, Presidency controlled by the Republicans. We dont need another huge swing in government policy to shake up the confidence of the markets.


That's why all the lefties need to get out and vote. The right is basically counting on the left to coast and assume victory.
 
2012-06-29 11:55:16 AM  

Magorn: alywa: [www.carlsontoons.com image 525x405]

Sadly, I think it is this simple for most people who say they hate the bill.

Which for once makes their ignorance a gift to the Democrats.

We know the House is going to stage a "Repeal Obamacare" vote, and, if Reid is clever, he'll let the senate vote on it too.

Why?

Because this fall, without ever once using the term "Obamacare" the Dems can run attack ads against every republics saying things like "Rep X voted to allow Big Health insurance companies to deny your children coverage for pre-existing conditions" "Senator Y voted to take away your child's right to stay on your health insurance until age 26" "Rep Z tried to let large corporations out of the requirement to provide health insurance for thier workers" "Sen AA voted to let insurance companies spend thier money on big bonuses for executives rather than on your healthcare"


Oh, I think whatever few intelligent GOPers there are out there know this. Which is why while their brethren are trying to spin this as some kind of victory, they are pissing themselves in anger. They're screwed. They've reached the point where they have to choose between maintaining or increasing their Congressional power, OR sticking to their backwards ideals. They can no longer have both.
 
2012-06-29 11:55:57 AM  

verbaltoxin: I still say the PPACA was structured to improve healthcare, but be just sh*tty enough so in about a decade, America says, "F*ck this sh*t!" and adopts a single payer system.

So for you on the left going, "Meh, it's not single payer," play the long game. This is the gateway to single payer. Now let's get on it and make sure that's what happens.


That's what I thought about the BCS. And I was right.
 
2012-06-29 11:59:15 AM  

sweetmelissa31: Well it is not ideal so therefore we should keep the status quo.


i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-06-29 12:00:14 PM  
Anyone know off hand if the Healthcare act does anything about preexisting bills because you had to have major surgery but couldn't afford insurance before?
 
2012-06-29 12:01:07 PM  

Alphax: Generation_D: Explaining the Act should have been 3 years ago.

He did.


You aren't getting what I'm saying. By "explain" I meant "lead" not "lecture."

Obama's like a well intentioned college professor, and America hates those. Thats why America gets behind the noise FOX puts out, because it speaks to the level thats more often than not where America is living.

Democrats never learn that to communicate you have to do better than just lay out the logic and assume others will connect the dots.

You must connect the dots, and use a nice homespun story or two to do it.

Its like Obama's been so scared all this time of sounding like Al Sharpton that he forgets he should sound like a president who was elected in a landslide and who had a mandate.

Had. Til he fumbled it away failing to lead on his own initiatives.
 
2012-06-29 12:02:53 PM  
i249.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-29 12:03:07 PM  

Jackson Herring: sweetmelissa31: Well it is not ideal so therefore we should keep the status quo.

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x577]


I thought the original copy of Clarence Thomas's decision was classified information.
 
2012-06-29 12:03:32 PM  
I'm not really a fan of the ACA because it's kind of a half-assed measure that's mostly a giveaway to a private industry that's little more than a millstone around the neck of actual medical care.

But I do think it's about time for everyone to stop biatching about it. It's the compromise we ended up with (compromises rarely make anyone 100% happy) and it's been upheld. It's a done-deal and part of the law now, feel free to propose further changes to said law but quit wasting our time with these troll threads for a while.
 
2012-06-29 12:05:21 PM  

scarmig: RandomExcess: It is immoral to use the force of law to compel people into the private market.

So simple.


Hey libs, how's about some nice carrots instead of bigger/more sticks? Maybe, all health-care expenses for everyone are tax-free. How about, all contributions to health-charities that help people pay for medical expenses are 2X tax-free? How about tax breaks for insurance companies that provide low-cost coverage, and cover preexisting conditions, kids, then unemployed.

How about incentives to doctors and clinics that treat people on a cash-basis, eliminating the need for insurance common emergencies and ailments?

Seriously, why do we need health insurance for cuts and scrapes, common illnesses and the occasional broken bone? These should be easy and cheap to fix. Keep the insurance for the big stuff.

Make it competitive to do the "right thing" and maybe you won't need a stick.


When I broke my wrist, the bill was a little over 9,000 dollars... that was for about 4-5 hours in the ER, them setting it, then there was an in-house pharmacy at the hospital that I got my drugs through (you get antibiotics when it's a compound frac going through the skin, I guess)... I dunno what qualifies as "big stuff" to you, but I don't think most of us keep 9k around in a rainy day fund...

I don't disagree with you on the idea, more people should be moved out of ER environments and into clinic environments... one of the big trends we are seeing in hospital construction is the attachment of urgent care clinics to ERs to provide treatment for serious, but non-emergent conditions... things that need to be treated urgently, like pneumonia, but can be treated for a fraction of the cost in a clinic setting as what it costs in an ER setting. The push to make doctor visits and pharmacy visits taxable is not a democratic push, so you might want to look into that... as for the federal tax free part, if you're taking deductions beyond the standard deductions, your health care expenditures are already deductible.... a big part of what the ACA does is offer bigger tax credits to people and businesses purchasing healthcare for employees/for themselves (seems like a pretty big carrot)... instead of just tax breaks for low-cost coverage, we out and out pay medicaid and medicare payers (private insurance companies) a service fee for administration of programs for low-income people. We also provide massive bloc grants that go directly to hospitals to help pay medical providers for the care of indigent patients.As for incentives for cash patients, many of the doctors I proofread for have substantial discounts for cash patients that reflects their lower cost of administration and overhead, the problem on that side is one of motivating patients, not doctors... many people, especially the most poor, have little to no cash reserves for emergencies... they're already struggling to get by. In short, I think too little has been made of the numerous carrots that already exist, and the numerous carrots that exist within the confines of the ACA... the "stick" that everyone keeps freaking out about is a 95 dollar tax in 2014, 300 bucks in 2015, 695 in 2016, and 695 (inflation adjusted) thereafter... seems relatively small, considering the cost uninsured people have traditionally dumped onto the rest of the healthcare system.

In short, I don't disagree with you, but your post seems indicative of a lack of familiarity with the current system and with the enacted legislation.
 
2012-06-29 12:10:09 PM  

Generation_D: Alphax: Generation_D: Explaining the Act should have been 3 years ago.

He did.

You aren't getting what I'm saying. By "explain" I meant "lead" not "lecture."

Obama's like a well intentioned college professor, and America hates those. Thats why America gets behind the noise FOX puts out, because it speaks to the level thats more often than not where America is living.

Democrats never learn that to communicate you have to do better than just lay out the logic and assume others will connect the dots.

You must connect the dots, and use a nice homespun story or two to do it.

Its like Obama's been so scared all this time of sounding like Al Sharpton that he forgets he should sound like a president who was elected in a landslide and who had a mandate.

Had. Til he fumbled it away failing to lead on his own initiatives.


You're right, I do not get the distinction.
 
2012-06-29 12:11:52 PM  

I_C_Weener: mrshowrules: I_C_Weener: mrshowrules: I_C_Weener: Also, Obama was naive saying it wasn't a tax. He will find himself defending that for the remainder of this year.

Well it doesn't kick in until 2014. Which means he hasn't increased taxes in his first term. Technically, if everyone gets insurance by 2014, no fines (tax increases).

True. He also glosses over the other actual tax increases that kick in starting next year though. For one...taxes on medical devices. I don't know if it is all of them, but inhaler extenders are medical devices, as are crutches, and wheelchairs.

Plus, there is a penalty in the plan for having the audacity to purchase a "cadillac" health insurance plan even if it is the only one your employer provides. I find that offensive...even if it doesn't kick in until 2014.

How hard is the GOP going to fight this? When are they going to just give up? Doesn't Obama get to do at least one big thing that they have to shut the fark about and let happen.

They do not have a public mandate to derail the Government over this issue.

Why do you equate me with the GOP. The headline is about America. I'm American. Can't I exercise my God given right to complain?

But, no, the GOP is not dropping it. Yesterday made that even more certain. It will energize those who were "Meh" for Romney into "Defeat him!" against Obama. It is the equivalent of the 2004 "Stop gay rights!" crap.

It is...politics.


I have no idea what your political affiliation is. I guess my point is that people are going to get turned off of the GOP if they don't move on at some point. I think Americans (more so then other nationalities) like a winner and they get annoyed by losers who don't know when to quit.
 
2012-06-29 12:14:20 PM  

firefly212:
When I broke my wrist, the bill was a little over 9,000 dollars... that was for about 4-5 hours in the ER, them setting it, then there was an in-house pharmacy at the hospital that I got my drugs through (you get antibiotics when it's a compound frac going through the skin, I guess)... I dunno what qualifies as "big stuff" to you, but I don't think most of us keep 9k around in a rainy day fund...


Yah, but is ObamaCare going to reimburse you for the time that you wont be able to jerk off. Because if it doesnt, Im all for repealing and trying to fix the old system.
 
2012-06-29 12:16:20 PM  

Gulper Eel: qorkfiend: Why are vouchers preferable to the current Medicare system?

For one, it's a lot harder for a crook to steal from millions of people one at a time than to just send Medicare the right billing codes and then kick back to watch the checks roll in.


You do realize that Medicare is administered by the exact same private insurance companies that the vouchers would be paying, yes?

You also realize that all you do for either system is fill out the same damned form (HCFA 1500) which has the same requirements either way, and the same "billing codes?"

Your solution is to get rid of something that guarantees they have health insurance, replace it with a maybe, change absolutely none of the billing or payment process, or fraud prevention.

In short your solution does nothing to solve anything, and doesn't even remotely address what you claim to be a problem... in fact, fraud rates through private insurance land are well above the rates seen in Medicare... so if anything, you're making the problem worse.

Of course, you already knew that, you disingenuous fark.
 
2012-06-29 12:26:29 PM  

TheHappTroll: Some people in this country still live in areas without police and fire protection.


Which state doesn't have a state police force? Which county doesn't have county cops?
 
2012-06-29 12:27:19 PM  

derpdeederp: monoski: Question for thought; if you choose to pay the tax rather than buy medical insurance and then you get hit with major illness/accident would you still be eligible for the financial ruin this program is designed to prevent???

I believe you can just get insurance at that point, since they can't deny you based on pre-existing conditions. So no, you should be okay.


There is language in there about elimination periods which is basically a temporary pre-ex exclusion and then after the ACA has been in effect for several years there will be windows when insurance can be purchased so I am not sure you are correct in this assumption.
 
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