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(politics.hu)   Poetic justice: leader of Hungary's antisemitic party finds out he's Jewish   (politics.hu) divider line 202
    More: Ironic, poetic justice, Jewish, Hungary, Gypsy Jobbik, two-thirds majority, anti-Semitic Jobbik  
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10455 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jun 2012 at 11:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-29 01:38:09 PM  

Oznog: Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.

Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.

As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.

It's definitely an ethnicity.

In fact the nature of a "race" is a rather arbitrary distinction. It never had a purely objective scientific definition, and is even less meaningful today. That is, it had more meaning in the 1930's than now.

Because a "race" is just a distinguishing set of significant and observable genetic characteristics, and a lack of widespread interbreeding outside the group. The genetic markers don't necessarily need to be UNIQUE to that race. Well, back in the 1930's and for hundreds of years prior, there was less breeding of Jews with gentiles. There were surely some genetic markers more common among Jews but not unique. You COULD see a race there if you wanted to.

Since then, racial barriers of all types have been breaking down. I'd say communication and transportation making the world much smaller. "Black" is increasingly a meaningless term, as there are fewer and fewer people with no mixed black and white genetic heritage.

I'm saying the lines of what is a "race" was always arbitrary and lacking true objectivity, so, in the 1930's-1940's, seeing a Jewish "race" was only slightly more inaccurate than seeing "white" vs "black", "Native American", "Pacific Islander", etc as races.


Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world.
 
2012-06-29 01:40:27 PM  
this is a thread in which I would welcome Tatsuma's input.
 
2012-06-29 01:41:11 PM  

mhd: Do they have bagels in Hungary?


When they get them out of the ovens
 
2012-06-29 01:45:59 PM  

medius: FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.

yes, but it means tail, literally

and it's farok in singular, which i don't think is as explicitly used to mean dick as when you're talking about other people's farkok,

and when it starts fark- there's always a suffix

/but my magyar is a little rusty, as is a farkom
//sometimes the tail wags the dog

bonus: farkas - literally "having a tail" or "has a tail" is the hungarian word for wolf and is a common last name


an inside joke then?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-29 01:50:06 PM  

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


According to the typical anti-Semite. To them, Jewish people have their own race. Because apparently we're smart like that.

/And thus, the cosmic joke.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 01:56:06 PM  

PsiChick: To them, Jewish people have their own race. Because apparently we're smart like that.


But it's all unscientific drivel anyways. For one, no racial description of Jews involved stat bonuses or favored classes.
 
2012-06-29 01:56:11 PM  
www.grudge-match.com

Wanted for questioning.
 
2012-06-29 01:59:14 PM  
Man, don't you hate it when your religion changes unexpectedly? One day I was surprised to discover that I was Lutheran.
 
2012-06-29 02:04:23 PM  

Magorn: Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world.


Meh, it depends what you're looking for. The "red hair" gene(s) in the Irish guy would probably be different than the "black hair" gene(s) in the Pacific islander. If the trait was not somehow genetic, it would not be heritable -- and clearly hair color is a heritable phenotype.
 
2012-06-29 02:07:10 PM  

Magorn: Oznog: Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: .....
Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world.


To be fair though they happen to be a very special case of intense reproductive isolation. While "Race" has no clear genetic basis, ethnicity certainly does. If it didn't, then why were all three of my Japanese cousins born with jaundice and I wasn't? Also I have literally the same Y-Chromosome (I1-haplogroup) as 35-50% of Scandinavians, so I'd venture to guess that I am at least genetically similar enough to them to be considered "Northern European" ethnically.
 
2012-06-29 02:08:52 PM  

jshine: Man, don't you hate it when your religion changes unexpectedly? One day I was surprised to discover that I was Lutheran.


You should go back and read some prior posts to understand how being jewish is not just a religion
 
2012-06-29 02:09:59 PM  

willfullyobscure: this is a thread in which I would welcome Tatsuma's input.


There are several Jews up in this piece (to use an old Jewish saying). What is it you wish you know? To borrow another old Jewish saying: "Seek and ye shall find."

// I have had some schooling (16 years) on the subject
 
2012-06-29 02:14:07 PM  

traylor: You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.


But do you think Hungarians pride themselves on not being Slavic? I mean they are an island in Slav territory.

Anyway, fark Jobbik and I find this pretty amusing. Every time I'm in Budapest, Jobbik seems to be holding some rally. It's not really the most comfortable atmosphere.
 
2012-06-29 02:21:44 PM  

Magorn: Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world


Aren't the San and Kalahari the same?

Not sure how that destroys "race" as a concept of people with similar traits. If you mean "race" as in how Nazi's or other supremacists see it (them being pure, and others not), you are right.
 
2012-06-29 02:25:08 PM  

monoski: jshine: Man, don't you hate it when your religion changes unexpectedly? One day I was surprised to discover that I was Lutheran.

You should go back and read some prior posts to understand how being jewish is not just a religion


I'm aware of the other views.
 
2012-06-29 02:44:13 PM  

htotheova: Does this mean that the Jews run everything?


Only Mammon worshipers.
 
2012-06-29 02:51:47 PM  
You know who else ran a European country, was anti-Semitic, and also part Jewish?
 
2012-06-29 02:53:17 PM  

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.



But why take off the shoes first?
 
2012-06-29 03:01:41 PM  
More surprises:

news.bbcimg.co.uk

Muammar Gadhafi

i.telegraph.co.uk

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

i.huffpost.com

Madeleine Albright


Hell, seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Jew these days.
 
2012-06-29 03:11:32 PM  
press.comedycentral.co.uk

Druish...
 
2012-06-29 03:13:13 PM  
How to act Hungarian:
www.badassoftheweek.com
/hot
 
2012-06-29 03:14:00 PM  

Cajnik: traylor: You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.

But do you think Hungarians pride themselves on not being Slavic? I mean they are an island in Slav territory.

Anyway, fark Jobbik and I find this pretty amusing. Every time I'm in Budapest, Jobbik seems to be holding some rally. It's not really the most comfortable atmosphere.


There are assholes in every nation, and naturally some of the Hungarians take pride of them not being Slavs or Gypsies or Jews, but I think the majority here just doesn't care. Last month's statistics show that the voter support of Jobbik is 11%. That means only 1 in 10 Hungarians is a complete asshole, and that sound like a pretty good value to me. For the record, I don't know anybody amongst my friends who is antisemitic or xenophobic.

Jobbik aren't making rallies all the time, you only had bad luck with the timing.


By the way, their name is a wordplay. In Hungarian jobb means both better and right, and the meanings of jobbik are the better one, and the rightmost one. But I guess no one is surprised now.
 
2012-06-29 03:21:50 PM  

Millennium: Kevin72: As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.

The thing is, the Jewish community really did start to display its own characteristic phenotypes, just as any ethnicity does. That phenomenon arose from a very different sort of isolation than most ethnicities do, in that said isolation was imposed by social constructs rather than geographic obstacles, but the process is recognizable. Over time it even developed a few particular genetic disorders, as many ethnicities do.

It has, of course, been argued that there is considerably more to race than biology. But at least in whatever ways biology plays a role in race, it's pretty much there.


The same arguments could be made that Christianity is a race. And it would be as equally useful. Or not.
 
2012-06-29 03:41:22 PM  

Degenerate Monkey: First, I am devastated by the level of rampant stupidity displayed by the widespread assumption that Jewish people are only "Jewish" by way of religious choice.

Second, I am conversely in awe at the correct use of the IRONIC tag for two days in a row.

Net change in opinion of humanity: +0.


Judaism is a religion. In America, there are a lot of barely religious in the traditional sense Jews with more traditionally Jewish parents or grandparents. Probably agnostic, questioning is there a God and what does that mean, much in the traditions of millennia past. Yes they are Jewish if they are not some other religion, because then they would be that other religion.
 
2012-06-29 03:46:38 PM  

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Why do people do this horrible crap to each other..I just..I just don't understand.
 
2012-06-29 03:47:55 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

He can call himself whatever he wants.

If his neo-nazi party holds to the same ideals as their predecessors then he's an untermensch. Not even a mischling. A full-blown racial inferior.
 
2012-06-29 03:51:00 PM  
He's not officially Jewish until the mohel has a say in the matter

dannymiller.typepad.com
 
2012-06-29 03:54:50 PM  

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


Yes.

You remind me of the people I argued with on Facebook (I know, my own fault for engaging) who were utterly incredulous that "Obamacare" was actually the brainchild of Richard Nixon, Mitt Romney, and Newt Gingrich, at least the mandate portion of it. You see, apparently, just because something doesn't make sense to you, or you refuse to understand the complexity or history of an issue, doesn't mean that your little, narrow worldview is correct.

If your mother was Jewish, you're Jewish. My mother wasn't Jewish, but she would have fit right in. (Is that anti-semetic? I wouldn't know, my mother isn't Jewish.)
 
2012-06-29 03:55:19 PM  
Aunt mother... Tell me, as a Russian to a Russian: in fact, it turns out that I'm... Isaac Schnippelson?
 
2012-06-29 04:10:33 PM  

Stephen_Falken: OOOH JESUS CHRIIIIST I'M A JEEEEW

[i131.photobucket.com image 223x226]


God that is the funniest (and most disturbing) pic I've seen in a long time.

I laughed so hard I fell out of my chair.
 
2012-06-29 04:27:17 PM  

Goodfella: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


But why take off the shoes first?


It was war, rubber and leather were in short supply so shoes got recycled. The tiny shoes at the Holocaust museum are just too much for me, the thought that someone could more value in them than the lives of the innocent child filling them....goddamnit...fricking dust storm just blew up in here...
 
2012-06-29 05:02:21 PM  

Amos Quito: More surprises:

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 224x299]

Muammar Gadhafi
[i.telegraph.co.uk image 220x293]
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]
Madeleine Albright


Hell, seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Jew these days.


Interestingly, if you read the comments on the Ghadaffi link, they mention that his wife is Sofia Farkas, Hungarian for Wolf, just like someone mentioned up thread.
 
2012-06-29 05:16:34 PM  
she's hungry like the wolf
 
2012-06-29 05:17:49 PM  
Just because he finds out he's Jewish doesn't mean he can't continue being antisemitic!

There are plenty of antisemitic people in Israel- they just hate Arabs, is all.
 
2012-06-29 05:46:55 PM  
Next thing you know he'll be wandering Central Park, wearing an Elmo suit, and spewing anti-semitic remarks.
 
2012-06-29 06:16:37 PM  
wandering Central Park, singing after dark, people think I'm crazy
 
mhd
2012-06-29 06:20:13 PM  

Do you know the way to Mordor: There are plenty of antisemitic people in Israel- they just hate Arabs, is all.


That's going by a strict reading of the term, which is why e.g. the Nazis abandoned it later on, in favor of "Judengegner" (enemy of the Jews) or simply anti-hebraic. Nevertheless, there's little use of the term meaning anything else but being opposed to Jews, and Jews alone. Anti-muslim sentiment for example seems to have little to no racial elements.
 
2012-06-29 07:02:37 PM  
Hate is stupidly ironic, no?
 
2012-06-29 07:46:55 PM  

Snarfangel: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.


I have favorited you for this statement.

///came for this.
///left satisfied
//LMFAO
 
2012-06-29 07:48:53 PM  

traylor: There are assholes in every nation


Tru da
 
2012-06-29 07:49:04 PM  

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Thank you for the information. Learned something new today!!! (seriously)

//happens everyday
///wonder what I will learn tomorrow
///guess I will have to check fark tomorrow then.
////thank you farkiers and farkettes
 
2012-06-29 08:54:31 PM  

macadamnut: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.


That's to keep Jews from coming down there at night and stealing them.




LMFAO
 
2012-06-29 09:37:22 PM  

Snarfangel: astelmaszek: So jews do really run everything afterall?

Even their opponents have to admit they are hardworking.


Back in the day, they weren't a huge % of Hungarians, but they were an overwhelming % of educated Hungarians. So if you were in a position to be a journalist, writer, professor, or anything culture-oriented, you were more likely Jewish than not.
 
2012-06-30 03:55:26 AM  
Okay, some people need to look up the Rabbi Gene. It is a very rare gene that only occurs in Rabbis. Obviously not every Rabbi has it these days, but it is found in those families who have stuck to the Rabbi-son-of-a-Rabbi traditions for the past few centuries. Which actually puts an interesting spin on that tradition in the first place. (Nova explores it more in their genetics documentary if you need something easy to find)

Regardless, the fact there IS a genetic marker that if you locate it in someone, you can pinpoint their ancestry, is more than enough to etch out a Jewish race (even if you ONLY count that tiny, tiny number, not taking into consideration any other gene). Certainly as much uniqueness as there is to brand the 75+ ethnicites of Europe. farking Europe. Some 80 different groups of white people who will kill each other for not being white enough, or the right white, or egg white. Okay s that's facetious, but the point is made yes? A few years ago there was a movement in Sweeden looking to cut off the Norwegian immigrants to their country off of all the social programs like health care and social services because they didn't want their money going to those ethnics.
 
2012-06-30 09:37:03 AM  

Amos Quito: More surprises:

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 224x299]

Muammar Gadhafi

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 220x293]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]

Madeleine Albright


Hell, seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Jew these days.


I am sure you will keep working on the solution to your problem.
 
2012-06-30 03:20:09 PM  
img.photobucket.com

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.
 
2012-06-30 04:12:14 PM  
I'm not a Roman mum, I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose! I'm kosher mum! I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it!
 
2012-07-01 10:58:27 AM  

cynicalbastard: [img.photobucket.com image 213x240]

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.


Who is he?

(The photo is too small for me to recognize him with my 20/50 corrected vision.)
 
2012-07-01 05:53:32 PM  

StoneColdAtheist: cynicalbastard: [img.photobucket.com image 213x240]

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.

Who is he?

(The photo is too small for me to recognize him with my 20/50 corrected vision.)


John Lithgow playing the character "Dick Soloman" from 3rd rock from the sun.
(The Alien team, who are desperately trying to figure out what their ethnicity might be, having heard that it's important, finally hear their landlady say that her second husband was "one of your people- you know, Jewish?" and decide that's what they are.)
 
2012-07-01 05:59:45 PM  

cynicalbastard: StoneColdAtheist: cynicalbastard: [img.photobucket.com image 213x240]

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.

Who is he?

(The photo is too small for me to recognize him with my 20/50 corrected vision.)

John Lithgow playing the character "Dick Soloman" from 3rd rock from the sun.
(The Alien team, who are desperately trying to figure out what their ethnicity might be, having heard that it's important, finally hear their landlady say that her second husband was "one of your people- you know, Jewish?" and decide that's what they are.)


Ahh...thank you! I'll wander over the Netflix to see if I can find it.
 
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