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(politics.hu)   Poetic justice: leader of Hungary's antisemitic party finds out he's Jewish   (politics.hu) divider line 202
    More: Ironic, poetic justice, Jewish, Hungary, Gypsy Jobbik, two-thirds majority, anti-Semitic Jobbik  
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10447 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jun 2012 at 11:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-29 08:00:07 AM
Can't he just be self-loathing?
 
2012-06-29 08:13:17 AM
GingerCartman.jpg
 
2012-06-29 08:24:49 AM
i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-29 10:48:42 AM
freeversephotography.com


/Way beyond my D- High School German, so Internet translated
 
2012-06-29 11:20:08 AM
Mazel tov!
 
2012-06-29 11:21:00 AM
I'm curious what Hungary's final solution is:

gigabiting.com
 
2012-06-29 11:21:03 AM
fark all imposed identity
 
2012-06-29 11:21:31 AM
I bet he plotzed upon learning that news..
 
2012-06-29 11:22:18 AM
Being Hungarian, since birth, and step-Jewish, since my father remarried, I say: fark this assclown.
 
2012-06-29 11:22:19 AM
That headline rhymes in Hungarian.
 
2012-06-29 11:22:58 AM
Do you know why Turkey invaded Hungary?
 
2012-06-29 11:23:02 AM
Well. THIS is awkward!
 
2012-06-29 11:23:15 AM
do you know what other anti-Semitic leader had Jewish origins?
 
2012-06-29 11:23:32 AM
You know who else was Jewish?
 
2012-06-29 11:23:54 AM
Jewed?
Literally?
 
2012-06-29 11:24:15 AM
Chuckufarlie!
 
2012-06-29 11:24:15 AM
Strange. I always thought of myself as Jewish, but found out today I was really Hungary.
 
2012-06-29 11:24:25 AM
luckily, like all religions, you aren't it unless you want to be.
 
2012-06-29 11:24:27 AM
OOOH JESUS CHRIIIIST I'M A JEEEEW

i131.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-29 11:25:24 AM

divgradcurl: luckily, like all religions, you aren't it unless you want to be.


This

Religion is not hereditary.
 
2012-06-29 11:25:34 AM
Does this mean that the Jews run everything?
 
2012-06-29 11:25:51 AM

RanDomino: fark all imposed identity


Good news! Unless he's trying to claim some rite of Judaism (e.g. a Jewish marriage; something which involves determining his "Jewish" status), it doesn't matter. It's more like finding out his family was Swiss.

// my family is German, Hungarian, Russian, Polish, Spanish and probably many others, just in the last 150 years
 
2012-06-29 11:26:22 AM
Well so was Shicklegruber, but he didn't let that stop him, instead he just destroyed all the records, tombstones, or people who might have been able to sustantiate the link
 
2012-06-29 11:26:23 AM

divgradcurl: luckily, like all religions, you aren't it unless you want to be.


In this case, it is usually genetic. That would make you wrong.
 
2012-06-29 11:26:49 AM
Solly Shimshillewitz?
 
2012-06-29 11:27:00 AM
The comments to that article are...

/if Jews run everything, why doesn't everyone just convert to Judaism?
 
2012-06-29 11:27:22 AM
Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.
 
2012-06-29 11:27:30 AM

Krymson Tyde: [i232.photobucket.com image 320x240]


I was expecting it to be done in one.
 
2012-06-29 11:27:34 AM

Magorn: Well so was Shicklegruber, but he didn't let that stop him, instead he just destroyed all the records, tombstones, or people who might have been able to sustantiate the link


not everybody can use the town they were born is as an artillery range.
 
2012-06-29 11:28:14 AM
Very bad Internet translation (i.e. word by word never works) Ennuipoet, I'm afraid. Doesn't make any sense at all. I guess you wanted something like this.

Findet heraus, dass er möglicherweise jüdisch ist?
Das gefällt dem Führer gar nicht.
 
2012-06-29 11:28:18 AM

Magorn: Well so was Shicklegruber, but he didn't let that stop him, instead he just destroyed all the records, tombstones, or people who might have been able to sustantiate the link


According to the article, he's already using a "I haven't been acting Jewish so it doesn't count" defense.
 
2012-06-29 11:28:44 AM
I am way too hung over to come up with a good joke for this.
 
2012-06-29 11:29:17 AM
My family is Norwegian - gran and mom are both straight outta Norway. Does this mean I'm Lutheran? Would explain my obsessive consumption of coffee.

/I'm pure California, thankyouverymuch
 
2012-06-29 11:30:13 AM
I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?
 
2012-06-29 11:30:57 AM
He had successfully infiltrated an anti-semitic gang, until he was outed. Good job, guys.

/Whatever you do, don't blow David Duke's cover.
 
2012-06-29 11:31:17 AM
jimwatkinsonline.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-29 11:31:19 AM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


Seriously, are you really that stupid?
 
2012-06-29 11:31:57 AM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


Jewish is actually more than a religion.
 
2012-06-29 11:32:15 AM

divgradcurl: luckily, like all religions, you aren't it unless you want to be.


Things get a little strange here: there is indeed a religion whose followers call themselves Jewish, but there is also an ethnicity whose followers call themselves Jewish (actually, this is an oversimplification: there are several such ethnicities, though they don't usually dispute one another's claims). The "Jewish" referred to in this headline is of the ethnic variety, and that's harder to escape from than simply renouncing one's faith.

A lot of modern anti-Semitism is based on the ethnic version, and if TFA is any indication, this guy's anti-Semitism is as well. This actually fairly new, though, well, you know who else did it (some say he even invented it, and he was certainly the first to make it popular).
 
2012-06-29 11:32:51 AM
One of tfa's comments mentioned a Hungarian saying about this time, the ice cream licked back.
 
2012-06-29 11:32:53 AM
Gunderson Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-29 11:25:24 AM


divgradcurl: luckily, like all religions, you aren't it unless you want to be.

This

Religion is not hereditary.




It's not just a religion
 
2012-06-29 11:32:59 AM
Error establishing a database connection
 
2012-06-29 11:33:17 AM
Link is farked
 
2012-06-29 11:35:03 AM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


Jewish refers to both an ethnic group and a religion. Film at 11.
img156.imageshack.us
 
2012-06-29 11:35:07 AM
excellent correct use of the Ironic tag, subs
 
2012-06-29 11:35:19 AM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 11:36:17 AM
Hungary's third-largest party is basically fascist? Did not know that...
 
2012-06-29 11:37:31 AM

monoski: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

Jewish is actually more than a religion.


It's actually debated in the more modern parts Jewish community, if "Jewish" is an ethnicity anymore. Sure, traditionally that's the case, but then it means that some Jews are less Jews than others, and that's problematic.
 
2012-06-29 11:37:58 AM
acardattack.files.wordpress.com

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?
 
2012-06-29 11:38:39 AM

mhd: Hungary's third-largest party is basically fascist? Did not know that...


yeah, they're real Budapests
 
2012-06-29 11:38:56 AM

Magorn: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.


works the same way if your father was Jewish.
 
2012-06-29 11:40:42 AM

chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?


I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?
 
2012-06-29 11:41:05 AM
Don't we hate in others what we most dislike about ourselves?
 
2012-06-29 11:41:39 AM
Oh man, double bonus points to that comments section xD "The Jews run everything, even Jobbik"
 
2012-06-29 11:42:01 AM
Paging Tatsuma... Tatsuma please report to thread #7188189. Thank you.

/The red zone is for loading and unloading only.
//There is no stopping in the white zone.
 
2012-06-29 11:42:08 AM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


You know that Jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity, right?
 
2012-06-29 11:42:18 AM

skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?


my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.
 
2012-06-29 11:42:20 AM

chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?


They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.
 
2012-06-29 11:42:26 AM
Where's the "sad" tag?
 
2012-06-29 11:43:15 AM
When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
media-cdn.tripadvisor.com

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.
 
2012-06-29 11:43:51 AM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: monoski: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

Jewish is actually more than a religion.

It's actually debated in the more modern parts Jewish community, if "Jewish" is an ethnicity anymore. Sure, traditionally that's the case, but then it means that some Jews are less Jews than others, and that's problematic.


False. Old Testament-ly, they're just as Jewish as anyone else ("as Jewish as Tevye," one might say) - the actual wording of the text is that they need to be ensured of a place in the community, "for remember that you were once strangers in a land that was not yours."

And then there's a collection of philosophical explanations and extrapolations - "a convert was always 'Jewish', they just didn't realize it until deciding to convert", "a convert is considered to have no family history other than 'being a Jew'", "one is not allowed to bring up a convert's pre-Jewish history"...

And there is no such thing (religiously) as "half-Jewish", unless you're describing your family history. It's a binary state - you is, or you ain't.

// matrilineal according to the Orthodoxes
// "at least one parent" (IIRC) according to anyone else
 
2012-06-29 11:44:15 AM

chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.


because there's no IQ test to open a Fark account? What's the ignorance you're talking about?
 
2012-06-29 11:44:57 AM

Snarfangel: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.


And Madonna. Once she converted, she was touched again for the very first time.
 
2012-06-29 11:45:09 AM
I agree with the folks who say that your identity is not genetic. It has always appeared to me that the Jews treat their identity as more tribal than anything else. There is no denial when it comes to your ancestry but I don't think you have to be locked into that. My family originated in Russia but I don't claim that as my culture or even really my heritage. Some in my family do but I have found that when traveling in that part of the world they don't look at me as Russian. And they are right. Also, I don't subscribe to the teachings of the Russian Orthodox Church even though my grandmother did. We all have to make choices. Oh, and the black guy in my office wants to chime in that he isn't African either.
 
2012-06-29 11:45:29 AM
So jews do really run everything afterall?
 
mhd
2012-06-29 11:45:33 AM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: It's actually debated in the more modern parts Jewish community, if "Jewish" is an ethnicity anymore.


I would wage a bet that the anti-semitic community doesn't really care about that, though. Wonder what's the current view in those circles, who are generally not known for their great modern genetical acumen.

/The Nazi "Arierpass" went with great-great-great-grandparents, although great-grandparents were usually considered enough if you didn't have that much genealogical information
 
2012-06-29 11:46:06 AM

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.



Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?
 
2012-06-29 11:47:15 AM
neversubmit Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-29 11:41:05 AM


Don't we hate in others what we most dislike about ourselves?




If so, it sure changes the tone of all those Sandusky threads.
 
2012-06-29 11:47:48 AM

astelmaszek: So jews do really run everything afterall?


Even their opponents have to admit they are hardworking.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:48 AM

Dr Dreidel: False. Old Testament-ly, they're just as Jewish as anyone else ("as Jewish as Tevye," one might say) - the actual wording of the text is that they need to be ensured of a place in the community, "for remember that you were once strangers in a land that was not yours."

And then there's a collection of philosophical explanations and extrapolations - "a convert was always 'Jewish', they just didn't realize it until deciding to convert", "a convert is considered to have no family history other than 'being a Jew'", "one is not allowed to bring up a convert's pre-Jewish history"...

And there is no such thing (religiously) as "half-Jewish", unless you're describing your family history. It's a binary state - you is, or you ain't.

// matrilineal according to the Orthodoxes
// "at least one parent" (IIRC) according to anyone else


Fine words, not consistent in reality. People are people. That's how it is.
 
2012-06-29 11:49:07 AM

skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.

because there's no IQ test to open a Fark account? What's the ignorance you're talking about?


the fact that they have no idea that Jewish does not always mean religion.
 
2012-06-29 11:50:25 AM

chuckufarlie: Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?


Just some small plaques, in Hebrew and English, in the stone embankment. Here's the English one:
sites.google.com
 
2012-06-29 11:50:28 AM

chuckufarlie: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?



and you are calling us ignorant?
 
2012-06-29 11:51:01 AM
Funny, he doesn't LOOK jewish.
 
2012-06-29 11:51:35 AM
It's like high profile closet homosexuals bashing homosexuals, right?
 
2012-06-29 11:51:45 AM
nevermind, i retract that last statement
 
2012-06-29 11:51:48 AM
Okay people, your resident agnostic Jewish gal is here to clear this up:

"Jewish" refers to both the ethnic background, the religion, and the traditional culture surrounding those communities. You can be one without necessarily being the other. If you are ethnically Jewish, you are regarded by the religious as having a Biblical obligation to keep the covenant with God. You can, of course, just ignore this and live your life however you damn well please. Conversely, if you are not ethnically Jewish, you can convert to the religion.

To draw a comparison: The Hopis have their own religion and culture. If a white baby were adopted by Hopis and raised in the culture, he would be religiously and culturally a Hopi, but not ethnically a Hopi. Conversely, if a Hopi baby were adopted by whites and raised in suburban home with no knowledge of his background, he would be ethnically a Hopi, but not a Hopi in the religious or cultural sense.

Does this clear this up?
 
2012-06-29 11:52:02 AM
Judaism is a religion. That is all. There was no question about that until one Adolph Hitler wrote a book called Mein Kampf claiming in all kinds of convoluted ways that Judaism was a race not a religion, and used that as a starting point for justifying the singling out and persecution of Jews. That is all.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 11:52:19 AM

chuckufarlie: the fact that they have no idea that Jewish does not always mean religion.


Not thinking in racial terms is a kind of ignorance/stupidity I'm quite okay with.
 
2012-06-29 11:53:05 AM

chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.

because there's no IQ test to open a Fark account? What's the ignorance you're talking about?

the fact that they have no idea that Jewish does not always mean religion.


friend of mine is a Syrian-Russian Jew. Ask him his background, he says he's Jewish. He's not. He's Syrian and Russian. Have 2 other friends who are twin brothers. Dad is Jewish, mom is Italian Catholic. They say they're half Jewish. They're not either. They're half German and half Italian.

There are ethnic Jews but in the US at least, many of the people who call themselves Jewish as a ethnic background, ain't. They're Germans and Russians and Poles and assorted other European countries.
 
2012-06-29 11:53:18 AM

advex101: I agree with the folks who say that your identity is not genetic. It has always appeared to me that the Jews treat their identity as more tribal than anything else. There is no denial when it comes to your ancestry but I don't think you have to be locked into that. My family originated in Russia but I don't claim that as my culture or even really my heritage. Some in my family do but I have found that when traveling in that part of the world they don't look at me as Russian. And they are right. Also, I don't subscribe to the teachings of the Russian Orthodox Church even though my grandmother did. We all have to make choices. Oh, and the black guy in my office wants to chime in that he isn't African either.


When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 11:54:07 AM

chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.


The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.
 
2012-06-29 11:54:18 AM

Im_Gumby: Paging Tatsuma... Tatsuma please report to thread #7188189. Thank you.

/The red zone is for loading and unloading only.
//There is no stopping in the white zone.


Look, not for nothing, but can't we have a threat that DOESN'T boil down to antisemites vs. anti-Zionists vs. one ultra-Orthodox Jew pontificating on Jewish law? Just once? It's close to Shabbat. Maybe he's already away davening at shul.
 
2012-06-29 11:54:19 AM

Magorn: if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.


Neither tribal identity nor religion should have a genetic component tied to them. That's the point. The guy in the link is pretty clearly not Jewish in any real sense, and it shouldn't matter what tribe his parents may have associated with or where they may or may not have gone to worship. This matrelineal labeling thing is an archaic and harmful device.
 
2012-06-29 11:56:21 AM

mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.


I didn't expect that.
 
2012-06-29 11:56:40 AM

divgradcurl: chuckufarlie: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?


and you are calling us ignorant?


yes, I am calling you stupid. In your case, you are certainly stupid. There is nothing wrong with the question I asked and if you think that there is, you are incredibly stupid.
 
2012-06-29 11:57:29 AM
I'm going to weigh in on the "Jewish is an ethnicity, not just a religion" side, for the following reasons:

1) Because Jews were discriminated against for a very long time (and still are in a lot of places), they had a tendency to form communities (and marry within those communities), and, as a result, there are genetic traits that are common to Jews in a similar manner that ethnic traits are common to ethnicities.

2) There are many places in the world (other than the US) where the "Jewish is an ethnicity" is imposed involuntarily e.g., USSR, before falling apart in the early 90s, listed "Jewish" as a nationality on the birth certificates of Jewish Russians, and "Russian" on the birth certificate of non-Jewish Russians.

/I think society is gradually moving away from "Jewish is an ethnicity," which is probably good.
 
2012-06-29 11:57:45 AM

indylaw: Im_Gumby: Paging Tatsuma... Tatsuma please report to thread #7188189. Thank you.

/The red zone is for loading and unloading only.
//There is no stopping in the white zone.

Look, not for nothing, but can't we have a threat that DOESN'T boil down to antisemites vs. anti-Zionists vs. one ultra-Orthodox Jew pontificating on Jewish law? Just once? It's close to Shabbat. Maybe he's already away davening at shul.


In a thread clearly about Jews? UNPOSSIBLE!
 
2012-06-29 11:59:03 AM

MBooda: mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

I didn't expect that.


It is kind of surprising.
 
2012-06-29 11:59:44 AM

mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.


When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are Jobbik is concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.


feel better??
 
2012-06-29 12:00:18 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Dr Dreidel: False. Old Testament-ly, they're just as Jewish as anyone else ("as Jewish as Tevye," one might say) - the actual wording of the text is that they need to be ensured of a place in the community, "for remember that you were once strangers in a land that was not yours."

And then there's a collection of philosophical explanations and extrapolations - "a convert was always 'Jewish', they just didn't realize it until deciding to convert", "a convert is considered to have no family history other than 'being a Jew'", "one is not allowed to bring up a convert's pre-Jewish history"...

And there is no such thing (religiously) as "half-Jewish", unless you're describing your family history. It's a binary state - you is, or you ain't.

// matrilineal according to the Orthodoxes
// "at least one parent" (IIRC) according to anyone else

Fine words, not consistent in reality. People are people. That's how it is.


Sure. There are xenophobic asshats who don't like "outsiders" in their communities, and then you have places like where my folks live. An interracial "mixed" couple (he converted shortly after they got married), they initially had a hard time (but that was 1968). At his funeral a few weeks ago was filled with people, none of whom could have said anything bad even if they'd wanted to. Cliff was really that awesome of a dude, and his family really does have the respect of everyone in the area.

So what I'm saying is that I agree. There are Jews who eat pork and think nothing of it and Jews who discriminate against converts (or are simply racists, which isn't actually specifically prohibited, but covered by a number of the other rules). Be sure you know what the rules actually are, though.
 
2012-06-29 12:03:35 PM
"Knowing who is a pure-race Hungarian is not what counts. The important thing is the way one behaves as a Hungarian," he is quoted as saying.

What the fark is a pure-race hungarian?
 
2012-06-29 12:04:01 PM

FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.


That should be "farok" - it literally means tail but it also refers to male genitalia.
 
2012-06-29 12:04:46 PM
They ran out of gypsies to blame for everything?
 
2012-06-29 12:05:10 PM

traylor: FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.

That should be "farok" - it literally means tail but it also refers to male genitalia.


Hungarians are built funny.
 
2012-06-29 12:05:45 PM

chuckufarlie: if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.

works the same way if your father was Jewish.


Awesome...9.5/10.

/throws a fivver in the guitar case
 
2012-06-29 12:05:47 PM
84 comments and no one's brought up the whole 'anti-semitism has almost nothing to do with jews except when the term is being used to manipulate people's emotions for political purposes by people with an axe to grind' thing yet? not many semetic people are jewish, far from all jewish people are semetic, and a whole lot of jewish people seem to have a grudge against a whole lot of other semitic people, while a whole lot of semitic people seem to have a grudge against the jewish people, and all that.
 
2012-06-29 12:05:48 PM
I'm sure his nipples exploded with delight at the news.
 
2012-06-29 12:07:29 PM

Snarfangel: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.


I have a friend who is and looks "Classically" Jewish (actually shes Russian Jewish, but the long black curly hair and nose are almost the model of the stereotype-and the Brooklyn accent doesn't help) in the late 1990's she was at a pool party in the deep south and she noticed one young man staring holes in her through most of the party (kid was likely 13 or so and she was mid-20's at the time). Since she knew she didn't look THAT good in a bikini, especially compared to others there, she finally asked the kid what he was looking at. Without a trace of malice or guile, he admitted he was trying to see the scar from when she had her tail and horns removed after birth.
 
2012-06-29 12:07:51 PM

mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.


Because the Spanish Inquisition's viewpoint has mattered in the last couple of centuries?

I did not expect that.
 
2012-06-29 12:08:02 PM

chuckufarlie: Magorn: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.

works the same way if your father was Jewish.


You are only considered a jew religiously if your mom was jewish or you did a formal conversion (for conservative and orthodox jews, Ithnk reform take either parent).

Crocoduck: Neither tribal identity nor religion should have a genetic component tied to them. That's the point. The guy in the link is pretty clearly not Jewish in any real sense, and it shouldn't matter what tribe his parents may have associated with or where they may or may not have gone to worship. This matrelineal labeling thing is an archaic and harmful device


If he is claiming some genetic defeciency with jews, then that does matter. I am guessing a guy in hi sposition does thingk that way.
 
2012-06-29 12:08:24 PM
 
2012-06-29 12:09:02 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-29 12:09:34 PM

divgradcurl: nevermind, i retract that last statement


chuckufarlie: divgradcurl: chuckufarlie: MBooda:

yes, I am calling you stupid. In your case, you are certainly stupid. There is nothing wrong with the question I asked and if you think that there is, you are incredibly stupid.


yeah, sorry, i misread your question and took it back. i guess i shouldn't have expected you to read more than just my comment before flaming back.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 12:09:55 PM

chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, Jobbik is concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

feel better??


Actually, it does seem to be a bit more complicated than that. Sure, for the Nazi-ish versions of anti-semitism, genetics seem to play a major role. But even that can be debated, as the actual racial theory was very shoddy (come one, "hamites"?) and probably can be counted as a thin pseudo-scientific veneer over the more old-fashioned anti-semitism (religious / historic).

But the Jobbik seems to be quite Christian. And in general Hungary has some pretty weird myths about that, including claiming that Jesus himself wasn't Jewish, but Parthian, that the Catholic Church is in league with or being controlled by "International Jewry" etc.
 
2012-06-29 12:12:03 PM

TripleK: [i.imgur.com image 640x464]


Free lunch? Way to promote the stereotype, Szegedi.
 
2012-06-29 12:12:43 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: monoski: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

Jewish is actually more than a religion.

It's actually debated in the more modern parts Jewish community, if "Jewish" is an ethnicity anymore. Sure, traditionally that's the case, but then it means that some Jews are less Jews than others, and that's problematic.


Debate does not make it less true. There is a religious aspect (hence converts) and there is a genetic component (hence tay-sachs disease) there are people who still debate if the earth is round or flat.
 
2012-06-29 12:13:43 PM

FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.


yes, but it means tail, literally

and it's farok in singular, which i don't think is as explicitly used to mean dick as when you're talking about other people's farkok,

and when it starts fark- there's always a suffix

/but my magyar is a little rusty, as is a farkom
//sometimes the tail wags the dog

bonus: farkas - literally "having a tail" or "has a tail" is the hungarian word for wolf and is a common last name
 
2012-06-29 12:13:43 PM

KellyX: "Knowing who is a pure-race Hungarian is not what counts. The important thing is the way one behaves as a Hungarian," he is quoted as saying.

What the fark is a pure-race hungarian?


A mongol, actually.

What few people, least of all Hungarian racists seem to realize is that Atilla the Hun and Ghengis Khan were distant cousins. The Huns were from the exact same Horse-riding nomadic culture of the central Asian Steppe that would produce Ghengis about a milenia later. NTTAWTT, but "white" they damn sure ain't
 
2012-06-29 12:14:21 PM

BolloxReader: mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

Because the Spanish Inquisition's viewpoint has mattered in the last couple of centuries?

I did not expect that.


Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!

/obligatory
 
2012-06-29 12:15:55 PM

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.


That's to keep Jews from coming down there at night and stealing them.
 
2012-06-29 12:16:43 PM

Magorn: KellyX: "Knowing who is a pure-race Hungarian is not what counts. The important thing is the way one behaves as a Hungarian," he is quoted as saying.

What the fark is a pure-race hungarian?

A mongol, actually.

What few people, least of all Hungarian racists seem to realize is that Atilla the Hun and Ghengis Khan were distant cousins. The Huns were from the exact same Horse-riding nomadic culture of the central Asian Steppe that would produce Ghengis about a milenia later. NTTAWTT, but "white" they damn sure ain't


So Hungarians are a mix of Slavic and Asian? Or is Slavic a mix of White and Asian?
 
2012-06-29 12:16:51 PM
Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 12:17:31 PM

Magorn: The Huns were from the exact same Horse-riding nomadic culture of the central Asian Steppe that would produce Ghengis about a milenia later.


If I'm not mistaking this with some urban legend, the Huns "adopted" a lot, i.e. it started out with some steppe tribes, but the horde assimilated a lot of ethnically different groups during their voyages.
 
2012-06-29 12:17:43 PM

lunogled: his wikipedia entry is pretty funny, especially the "work" part.


Haha, awesome.
 
2012-06-29 12:20:17 PM

KellyX: Magorn: KellyX: "Knowing who is a pure-race Hungarian is not what counts. The important thing is the way one behaves as a Hungarian," he is quoted as saying.

What the fark is a pure-race hungarian?

A mongol, actually.

What few people, least of all Hungarian racists seem to realize is that Atilla the Hun and Ghengis Khan were distant cousins. The Huns were from the exact same Horse-riding nomadic culture of the central Asian Steppe that would produce Ghengis about a milenia later. NTTAWTT, but "white" they damn sure ain't

So Hungarians are a mix of Slavic and Asian? Or is Slavic a mix of White and Asian?


But Hungarians aren't really Huns. I mostly mean that the Magyars weren't, but there's also been a lot of history there since.
 
2012-06-29 12:20:59 PM

Ennuipoet: [freeversephotography.com image 640x361]

/Way beyond my D- High School German, so Internet translated


Godwined in 3. That's was just a bit too early. Although, I must admit, my first thought was something like, "You know who else didn't know he was Jewish?"
 
2012-06-29 12:21:47 PM

Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.


Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.
 
2012-06-29 12:22:04 PM
What does he think he was, Polish Catholic?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-29 12:22:55 PM

Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.


yes, Judaism is a religion.

Anti-Semitic (or anti-Jewish to be more accurate) behavior, however, is not about religion. It is about hating a group of people who are perceived as being part of a race of people, That is why these people want to investigate a person's genetic background.
 
2012-06-29 12:27:27 PM

MBooda: chuckufarlie: Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?

Just some small plaques, in Hebrew and English, in the stone embankment. Here's the English one:
[sites.google.com image 500x375]


Why isn't there a sign in Hungarian? Seems odd. Is it only for tourists?
 
2012-06-29 12:28:03 PM

stevegarbowski: Do you know why Turkey invaded Hungary?


I know why the Soviet Union did. They got Hungary, went after Turkey, slipped on Greece and broke China.
 
2012-06-29 12:28:03 PM
idiotflashback.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-29 12:29:01 PM

mhd: Magorn: The Huns were from the exact same Horse-riding nomadic culture of the central Asian Steppe that would produce Ghengis about a milenia later.

If I'm not mistaking this with some urban legend, the Huns "adopted" a lot, i.e. it started out with some steppe tribes, but the horde assimilated a lot of ethnically different groups during their voyages.


You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.
 
2012-06-29 12:30:08 PM

traylor: You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.


"We'll fark anything."

I should try living the motto.
 
2012-06-29 12:30:38 PM

indylaw: Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.

Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.


As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.
 
2012-06-29 12:36:00 PM

medius: traylor: You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.

"We'll fark anything."

I should try living the motto.


Yeah, while you are there, try and put a little Hungarian in the American.
 
2012-06-29 12:36:51 PM

Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.

Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.

As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.


It doesn't matter whether it is objectively true off somewhere in theory land. It matters what people's perceptions are. It is common for racist groups to consider the Jews to be an ethnicity, and therefore you can be "a Jew" and therefore an undesirable in their worldview even if you've been a Christian or an atheist your entire life. It doesn't matter that "Jewish" doesn't neatly fit the definition of "a race." It matters that bigots hate you if you have "Jewish blood."
 
2012-06-29 12:40:17 PM

Europos: Very bad Internet translation (i.e. word by word never works) Ennuipoet, I'm afraid. Doesn't make any sense at all. I guess you wanted something like this.

Findet heraus, dass er möglicherweise jüdisch ist?
Das gefällt dem Führer gar nicht.


I rather thought it would be a horrible translation, honestly I could never do more than order a beer in German.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 12:45:27 PM

Kevin72: As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.


Not quite. First of all, Hitler didn't really invent the pseudo-scientific anti-semitism, it was quite popular before that. Genetics were in their infancy and there was a boat load of silly racial theories. Some of whose are still taught in Waldorf schools, by the way...
Heck, the whole "semitic" thing started a couple of hundred years before that, believing that everyone in Asia was a descendent of Shem, one of Noah's sons.

Second, while the word "race" is better avoided, Jews as a "people" seems to be quite well supported, with shared genetic markers, common ancestry etc.
Whether that's an unbroken line leading towards the Biblical tribes seems to be a matter of discussion, although I believe it's the majority belief/theory in Israel itself. (Wasn't there a book a few years ago that caused some hubbub about this?)

And as many people here mentioned, it's not really about what's rational in this case, "being Jewish" here is interpreted along the lines of the Hungarian fascist's believes, i.e. genealogical.
 
2012-06-29 12:46:16 PM

chuckufarlie: Seriously, are you really that stupid?


chuckufarlie: yes, I am calling you stupid. In your case, you are certainly stupid. There is nothing wrong with the question I asked and if you think that there is, you are incredibly stupid.


Dude, you're coming across as kind of an a$$hole. Just saying.
 
2012-06-29 12:46:44 PM
How do you "find out" you belong to a religion?
 
mhd
2012-06-29 12:48:54 PM

Ned Stark: How do you "find out" you belong to a religion?


Picture yourself awakening one night, hearing a distant sound. The next thing you notice is a bevvy of mohels abseiling from your ceiling. What follows is short, bloody, and even a bit shorter in the end.
 
2012-06-29 12:49:02 PM

forteblast: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

Jewish refers to both an ethnic group and a religion. Film at 11.


Yup. My ex husband converted to Judaism to marry his current wife, a Jewish Latina.

/The funny part is, his last name is Eichmann.
 
2012-06-29 12:49:15 PM

indylaw: Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.

Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.

As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.

It doesn't matter whether it is objectively true off somewhere in theory land. It matters what people's perceptions are. It is common for racist groups to consider the Jews to be an ethnicity, and therefore you can be "a Jew" and therefore an undesirable in their worldview even if you've been a Christian or an atheist your entire life. It doesn't matter that "Jewish" doesn't neatly fit the definition of "a race." It matters that bigots hate you if you have "Jewish blood."


Glad you cleared that up. Haters gonna hate, and bigots have skewed and inaccurate perceptions.
 
2012-06-29 12:50:56 PM

TheHappTroll: It's like high profile closet homosexuals bashing homosexuals, right?


So he's republican then?
 
2012-06-29 12:54:01 PM

mhd: Ned Stark: How do you "find out" you belong to a religion?

Picture yourself awakening one night, hearing a distant sound. The next thing you notice is a bevvy of mohels abseiling from your ceiling. What follows is short, bloody, and even a bit shorter in the end.


they can clip my tail when they take it out of my cold dead hands
 
2012-06-29 12:54:50 PM

Kevin72: As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.


The thing is, the Jewish community really did start to display its own characteristic phenotypes, just as any ethnicity does. That phenomenon arose from a very different sort of isolation than most ethnicities do, in that said isolation was imposed by social constructs rather than geographic obstacles, but the process is recognizable. Over time it even developed a few particular genetic disorders, as many ethnicities do.

It has, of course, been argued that there is considerably more to race than biology. But at least in whatever ways biology plays a role in race, it's pretty much there.
 
2012-06-29 12:56:10 PM
Being Jewish can also refer to ethnicity.
Tay-Sachs Disease is genetic and there are higher rates of it in certain ethnic groups. You do not risk getting Tay-Sachs Disease if you choose to follow a particular religion, it is an inheritable trait.
 
2012-06-29 01:01:08 PM
First, I am devastated by the level of rampant stupidity displayed by the widespread assumption that Jewish people are only "Jewish" by way of religious choice.

Second, I am conversely in awe at the correct use of the IRONIC tag for two days in a row.

Net change in opinion of humanity: +0.
 
2012-06-29 01:02:10 PM
blog.zap2it.com

Will add this to his Hannukah song.

/hot, unlike evenings on the second and third week of December
 
2012-06-29 01:02:28 PM
Der takin our Jerbiks.
 
2012-06-29 01:03:52 PM
People have to realize that unless you live on the east or west coast of the US or within a hundred miles of a few metropolitan centers, chances are excellent that you've never met a Jew. It's easy to believe lies about someone you've never met, and the intrusion of Jewish "otherness" into otherwise homogeneous environments can add to the problem. Case in point: a few years ago there was a brouhaha in Delaware over the only two Jewish families in a small town objecting to the omnipresent Christian prayers at school and community events. The pastor at one Jewish child's graduation ceremony pointed her out and requested that everyone prayer for her poor, damned soul. Others were subjected to antisemitic taunts by schoolmates and insistence by the school authorities on removing their "hats." One family felt obliged to move out of town, the other successfully sued.

Link

The point is, if those Jewish families hadn't live there, nobody would have ever complained about what can only be termed relentless Christian proselytization in the community; there would be nobody to be offended. There are lots and lots of places like that in the US. It's really easy to pick up antisemitic attitudes when everyone around you has them and there's no counter examples to make you believe otherwise.
 
2012-06-29 01:04:49 PM

Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.

Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.

As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.


It's definitely an ethnicity.

In fact the nature of a "race" is a rather arbitrary distinction. It never had a purely objective scientific definition, and is even less meaningful today. That is, it had more meaning in the 1930's than now.

Because a "race" is just a distinguishing set of significant and observable genetic characteristics, and a lack of widespread interbreeding outside the group. The genetic markers don't necessarily need to be UNIQUE to that race. Well, back in the 1930's and for hundreds of years prior, there was less breeding of Jews with gentiles. There were surely some genetic markers more common among Jews but not unique. You COULD see a race there if you wanted to.

Since then, racial barriers of all types have been breaking down. I'd say communication and transportation making the world much smaller. "Black" is increasingly a meaningless term, as there are fewer and fewer people with no mixed black and white genetic heritage.

I'm saying the lines of what is a "race" was always arbitrary and lacking true objectivity, so, in the 1930's-1940's, seeing a Jewish "race" was only slightly more inaccurate than seeing "white" vs "black", "Native American", "Pacific Islander", etc as races.
 
2012-06-29 01:13:01 PM

DWitchiewoman: Being Jewish can also refer to ethnicity.
Tay-Sachs Disease is genetic and there are higher rates of it in certain ethnic groups. You do not risk getting Tay-Sachs Disease if you choose to follow a particular religion, it is an inheritable trait.


Came here to say this.

Seriously, everyone can say that there's no phenotypical or genetic component to being "Jewish" until they're blue in the face, but the fact is obvious to anyone who pays the slightest bit attention to Anthropology. Look people, until fairly recently Jewish people in Europe were reproductively isolated from the surrounding populations due to cultural and religious reasons, thus they have distinctive genetic markers like high frequencies of Tay-Sachs within the population, and THAT makes them their own separate ethnicity.

Come on people, this is simple biology.
 
2012-06-29 01:15:00 PM

Ned Stark: How do you "find out" you belong to a religion?


Duh...you start talking shiat about people of that religion, and the next thing you know someone starts poking into your own background.
 
2012-06-29 01:21:40 PM

mhd: Ned Stark: How do you "find out" you belong to a religion?

Picture yourself awakening one night, hearing a distant sound. The next thing you notice is a bevvy of mohels abseiling from your ceiling. What follows is short, bloody, and even a bit shorter in the end.


Dammit, I should know better than to Fark while eating. Oh well, off to get another keyboard.
 
2012-06-29 01:26:47 PM
Gormanoglu:
DWitchiewoman: Being Jewish can also refer to ethnicity.
Tay-Sachs Disease is genetic and there are higher rates of it in certain ethnic groups. You do not risk getting Tay-Sachs Disease if you choose to follow a particular religion, it is an inheritable trait.

Came here to say this.

Seriously, everyone can say that there's no phenotypical or genetic component to being "Jewish" until they're blue in the face, but the fact is obvious to anyone who pays the slightest bit attention to Anthropology. Look people, until fairly recently Jewish people in Europe were reproductively isolated from the surrounding populations due to cultural and religious reasons, thus they have distinctive genetic markers like high frequencies of Tay-Sachs within the population, and THAT makes them their own separate ethnicity.

Come on people, this is simple biology.


Yep!
 
mhd
2012-06-29 01:30:42 PM
Do they have bagels in Hungary?
 
2012-06-29 01:33:50 PM

mhd: Do they have bagels in Hungary?


not really, no

other jewish foods, yes
 
2012-06-29 01:38:09 PM

Oznog: Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: Repeating: Judaism is a religion, period, end of story. All talk about race ethnicity national origin half-Jewish is senseless. The character in question had Jewish ancestors? So what? He doesn't have the religion of his ancestors, he even wants to persecute such. He is not Jewish even if his ancestors were. What does it all mean.

Thank goodness you cleared that all up for us. It's not as if the Nazis killed anyone just for having Jewish ancestry.

As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.

It's definitely an ethnicity.

In fact the nature of a "race" is a rather arbitrary distinction. It never had a purely objective scientific definition, and is even less meaningful today. That is, it had more meaning in the 1930's than now.

Because a "race" is just a distinguishing set of significant and observable genetic characteristics, and a lack of widespread interbreeding outside the group. The genetic markers don't necessarily need to be UNIQUE to that race. Well, back in the 1930's and for hundreds of years prior, there was less breeding of Jews with gentiles. There were surely some genetic markers more common among Jews but not unique. You COULD see a race there if you wanted to.

Since then, racial barriers of all types have been breaking down. I'd say communication and transportation making the world much smaller. "Black" is increasingly a meaningless term, as there are fewer and fewer people with no mixed black and white genetic heritage.

I'm saying the lines of what is a "race" was always arbitrary and lacking true objectivity, so, in the 1930's-1940's, seeing a Jewish "race" was only slightly more inaccurate than seeing "white" vs "black", "Native American", "Pacific Islander", etc as races.


Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world.
 
2012-06-29 01:40:27 PM
this is a thread in which I would welcome Tatsuma's input.
 
2012-06-29 01:41:11 PM

mhd: Do they have bagels in Hungary?


When they get them out of the ovens
 
2012-06-29 01:45:59 PM

medius: FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.

yes, but it means tail, literally

and it's farok in singular, which i don't think is as explicitly used to mean dick as when you're talking about other people's farkok,

and when it starts fark- there's always a suffix

/but my magyar is a little rusty, as is a farkom
//sometimes the tail wags the dog

bonus: farkas - literally "having a tail" or "has a tail" is the hungarian word for wolf and is a common last name


an inside joke then?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-29 01:50:06 PM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


According to the typical anti-Semite. To them, Jewish people have their own race. Because apparently we're smart like that.

/And thus, the cosmic joke.
 
mhd
2012-06-29 01:56:06 PM

PsiChick: To them, Jewish people have their own race. Because apparently we're smart like that.


But it's all unscientific drivel anyways. For one, no racial description of Jews involved stat bonuses or favored classes.
 
2012-06-29 01:56:11 PM
www.grudge-match.com

Wanted for questioning.
 
2012-06-29 01:59:14 PM
Man, don't you hate it when your religion changes unexpectedly? One day I was surprised to discover that I was Lutheran.
 
2012-06-29 02:04:23 PM

Magorn: Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world.


Meh, it depends what you're looking for. The "red hair" gene(s) in the Irish guy would probably be different than the "black hair" gene(s) in the Pacific islander. If the trait was not somehow genetic, it would not be heritable -- and clearly hair color is a heritable phenotype.
 
2012-06-29 02:07:10 PM

Magorn: Oznog: Kevin72: indylaw: Kevin72: .....
Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world.


To be fair though they happen to be a very special case of intense reproductive isolation. While "Race" has no clear genetic basis, ethnicity certainly does. If it didn't, then why were all three of my Japanese cousins born with jaundice and I wasn't? Also I have literally the same Y-Chromosome (I1-haplogroup) as 35-50% of Scandinavians, so I'd venture to guess that I am at least genetically similar enough to them to be considered "Northern European" ethnically.
 
2012-06-29 02:08:52 PM

jshine: Man, don't you hate it when your religion changes unexpectedly? One day I was surprised to discover that I was Lutheran.


You should go back and read some prior posts to understand how being jewish is not just a religion
 
2012-06-29 02:09:59 PM

willfullyobscure: this is a thread in which I would welcome Tatsuma's input.


There are several Jews up in this piece (to use an old Jewish saying). What is it you wish you know? To borrow another old Jewish saying: "Seek and ye shall find."

// I have had some schooling (16 years) on the subject
 
2012-06-29 02:14:07 PM

traylor: You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.


But do you think Hungarians pride themselves on not being Slavic? I mean they are an island in Slav territory.

Anyway, fark Jobbik and I find this pretty amusing. Every time I'm in Budapest, Jobbik seems to be holding some rally. It's not really the most comfortable atmosphere.
 
2012-06-29 02:21:44 PM

Magorn: Genetics has pretty much destroyed any "scientific" theory or defintion of "race". Two Kalahari bushmen from neighboring villages exhibit more genetic diversity than an Irishman does from a pacific Islander or any random two people not of San (bushman) ancestry because the San are the only known human population not descended from the 150 or so folks in the tribe that left Africa some 35,000 years ago and apparently populated the rest of the whole world


Aren't the San and Kalahari the same?

Not sure how that destroys "race" as a concept of people with similar traits. If you mean "race" as in how Nazi's or other supremacists see it (them being pure, and others not), you are right.
 
2012-06-29 02:25:08 PM

monoski: jshine: Man, don't you hate it when your religion changes unexpectedly? One day I was surprised to discover that I was Lutheran.

You should go back and read some prior posts to understand how being jewish is not just a religion


I'm aware of the other views.
 
2012-06-29 02:44:13 PM

htotheova: Does this mean that the Jews run everything?


Only Mammon worshipers.
 
2012-06-29 02:51:47 PM
You know who else ran a European country, was anti-Semitic, and also part Jewish?
 
2012-06-29 02:53:17 PM

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.



But why take off the shoes first?
 
2012-06-29 03:01:41 PM
More surprises:

news.bbcimg.co.uk

Muammar Gadhafi

i.telegraph.co.uk

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

i.huffpost.com

Madeleine Albright


Hell, seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Jew these days.
 
2012-06-29 03:11:32 PM
press.comedycentral.co.uk

Druish...
 
2012-06-29 03:13:13 PM
How to act Hungarian:
www.badassoftheweek.com
/hot
 
2012-06-29 03:14:00 PM

Cajnik: traylor: You are right. Hungarians have a bit from every ethnicity in Central Europe. Asian, Slavic, Frank, Roman, Turkish, Cuman... even Jew and Gypsy.

Talking about pure-race Hungarians does not make sense.

But do you think Hungarians pride themselves on not being Slavic? I mean they are an island in Slav territory.

Anyway, fark Jobbik and I find this pretty amusing. Every time I'm in Budapest, Jobbik seems to be holding some rally. It's not really the most comfortable atmosphere.


There are assholes in every nation, and naturally some of the Hungarians take pride of them not being Slavs or Gypsies or Jews, but I think the majority here just doesn't care. Last month's statistics show that the voter support of Jobbik is 11%. That means only 1 in 10 Hungarians is a complete asshole, and that sound like a pretty good value to me. For the record, I don't know anybody amongst my friends who is antisemitic or xenophobic.

Jobbik aren't making rallies all the time, you only had bad luck with the timing.


By the way, their name is a wordplay. In Hungarian jobb means both better and right, and the meanings of jobbik are the better one, and the rightmost one. But I guess no one is surprised now.
 
2012-06-29 03:21:50 PM

Millennium: Kevin72: As stated above, the Nazis were under the influence of Adolph Hitler who told them that Judaism was a race not a religion, as completely untrue as that might be.

The thing is, the Jewish community really did start to display its own characteristic phenotypes, just as any ethnicity does. That phenomenon arose from a very different sort of isolation than most ethnicities do, in that said isolation was imposed by social constructs rather than geographic obstacles, but the process is recognizable. Over time it even developed a few particular genetic disorders, as many ethnicities do.

It has, of course, been argued that there is considerably more to race than biology. But at least in whatever ways biology plays a role in race, it's pretty much there.


The same arguments could be made that Christianity is a race. And it would be as equally useful. Or not.
 
2012-06-29 03:41:22 PM

Degenerate Monkey: First, I am devastated by the level of rampant stupidity displayed by the widespread assumption that Jewish people are only "Jewish" by way of religious choice.

Second, I am conversely in awe at the correct use of the IRONIC tag for two days in a row.

Net change in opinion of humanity: +0.


Judaism is a religion. In America, there are a lot of barely religious in the traditional sense Jews with more traditionally Jewish parents or grandparents. Probably agnostic, questioning is there a God and what does that mean, much in the traditions of millennia past. Yes they are Jewish if they are not some other religion, because then they would be that other religion.
 
2012-06-29 03:46:38 PM

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Why do people do this horrible crap to each other..I just..I just don't understand.
 
2012-06-29 03:47:55 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

He can call himself whatever he wants.

If his neo-nazi party holds to the same ideals as their predecessors then he's an untermensch. Not even a mischling. A full-blown racial inferior.
 
2012-06-29 03:51:00 PM
He's not officially Jewish until the mohel has a say in the matter

dannymiller.typepad.com
 
2012-06-29 03:54:50 PM

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?


Yes.

You remind me of the people I argued with on Facebook (I know, my own fault for engaging) who were utterly incredulous that "Obamacare" was actually the brainchild of Richard Nixon, Mitt Romney, and Newt Gingrich, at least the mandate portion of it. You see, apparently, just because something doesn't make sense to you, or you refuse to understand the complexity or history of an issue, doesn't mean that your little, narrow worldview is correct.

If your mother was Jewish, you're Jewish. My mother wasn't Jewish, but she would have fit right in. (Is that anti-semetic? I wouldn't know, my mother isn't Jewish.)
 
2012-06-29 03:55:19 PM
Aunt mother... Tell me, as a Russian to a Russian: in fact, it turns out that I'm... Isaac Schnippelson?
 
2012-06-29 04:10:33 PM

Stephen_Falken: OOOH JESUS CHRIIIIST I'M A JEEEEW

[i131.photobucket.com image 223x226]


God that is the funniest (and most disturbing) pic I've seen in a long time.

I laughed so hard I fell out of my chair.
 
2012-06-29 04:27:17 PM

Goodfella: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


But why take off the shoes first?


It was war, rubber and leather were in short supply so shoes got recycled. The tiny shoes at the Holocaust museum are just too much for me, the thought that someone could more value in them than the lives of the innocent child filling them....goddamnit...fricking dust storm just blew up in here...
 
2012-06-29 05:02:21 PM

Amos Quito: More surprises:

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 224x299]

Muammar Gadhafi
[i.telegraph.co.uk image 220x293]
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]
Madeleine Albright


Hell, seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Jew these days.


Interestingly, if you read the comments on the Ghadaffi link, they mention that his wife is Sofia Farkas, Hungarian for Wolf, just like someone mentioned up thread.
 
2012-06-29 05:16:34 PM
she's hungry like the wolf
 
2012-06-29 05:17:49 PM
Just because he finds out he's Jewish doesn't mean he can't continue being antisemitic!

There are plenty of antisemitic people in Israel- they just hate Arabs, is all.
 
2012-06-29 05:46:55 PM
Next thing you know he'll be wandering Central Park, wearing an Elmo suit, and spewing anti-semitic remarks.
 
2012-06-29 06:16:37 PM
wandering Central Park, singing after dark, people think I'm crazy
 
mhd
2012-06-29 06:20:13 PM

Do you know the way to Mordor: There are plenty of antisemitic people in Israel- they just hate Arabs, is all.


That's going by a strict reading of the term, which is why e.g. the Nazis abandoned it later on, in favor of "Judengegner" (enemy of the Jews) or simply anti-hebraic. Nevertheless, there's little use of the term meaning anything else but being opposed to Jews, and Jews alone. Anti-muslim sentiment for example seems to have little to no racial elements.
 
2012-06-29 07:02:37 PM
Hate is stupidly ironic, no?
 
2012-06-29 07:46:55 PM

Snarfangel: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.


I have favorited you for this statement.

///came for this.
///left satisfied
//LMFAO
 
2012-06-29 07:48:53 PM

traylor: There are assholes in every nation


Tru da
 
2012-06-29 07:49:04 PM

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Thank you for the information. Learned something new today!!! (seriously)

//happens everyday
///wonder what I will learn tomorrow
///guess I will have to check fark tomorrow then.
////thank you farkiers and farkettes
 
2012-06-29 08:54:31 PM

macadamnut: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.


That's to keep Jews from coming down there at night and stealing them.




LMFAO
 
2012-06-29 09:37:22 PM

Snarfangel: astelmaszek: So jews do really run everything afterall?

Even their opponents have to admit they are hardworking.


Back in the day, they weren't a huge % of Hungarians, but they were an overwhelming % of educated Hungarians. So if you were in a position to be a journalist, writer, professor, or anything culture-oriented, you were more likely Jewish than not.
 
2012-06-30 03:55:26 AM
Okay, some people need to look up the Rabbi Gene. It is a very rare gene that only occurs in Rabbis. Obviously not every Rabbi has it these days, but it is found in those families who have stuck to the Rabbi-son-of-a-Rabbi traditions for the past few centuries. Which actually puts an interesting spin on that tradition in the first place. (Nova explores it more in their genetics documentary if you need something easy to find)

Regardless, the fact there IS a genetic marker that if you locate it in someone, you can pinpoint their ancestry, is more than enough to etch out a Jewish race (even if you ONLY count that tiny, tiny number, not taking into consideration any other gene). Certainly as much uniqueness as there is to brand the 75+ ethnicites of Europe. farking Europe. Some 80 different groups of white people who will kill each other for not being white enough, or the right white, or egg white. Okay s that's facetious, but the point is made yes? A few years ago there was a movement in Sweeden looking to cut off the Norwegian immigrants to their country off of all the social programs like health care and social services because they didn't want their money going to those ethnics.
 
2012-06-30 09:37:03 AM

Amos Quito: More surprises:

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 224x299]

Muammar Gadhafi

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 220x293]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]

Madeleine Albright


Hell, seems like you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Jew these days.


I am sure you will keep working on the solution to your problem.
 
2012-06-30 03:20:09 PM
img.photobucket.com

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.
 
2012-06-30 04:12:14 PM
I'm not a Roman mum, I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose! I'm kosher mum! I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it!
 
2012-07-01 10:58:27 AM

cynicalbastard: [img.photobucket.com image 213x240]

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.


Who is he?

(The photo is too small for me to recognize him with my 20/50 corrected vision.)
 
2012-07-01 05:53:32 PM

StoneColdAtheist: cynicalbastard: [img.photobucket.com image 213x240]

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.

Who is he?

(The photo is too small for me to recognize him with my 20/50 corrected vision.)


John Lithgow playing the character "Dick Soloman" from 3rd rock from the sun.
(The Alien team, who are desperately trying to figure out what their ethnicity might be, having heard that it's important, finally hear their landlady say that her second husband was "one of your people- you know, Jewish?" and decide that's what they are.)
 
2012-07-01 05:59:45 PM

cynicalbastard: StoneColdAtheist: cynicalbastard: [img.photobucket.com image 213x240]

What someone who just found out that they're Jewish might look like.

Who is he?

(The photo is too small for me to recognize him with my 20/50 corrected vision.)

John Lithgow playing the character "Dick Soloman" from 3rd rock from the sun.
(The Alien team, who are desperately trying to figure out what their ethnicity might be, having heard that it's important, finally hear their landlady say that her second husband was "one of your people- you know, Jewish?" and decide that's what they are.)


Ahh...thank you! I'll wander over the Netflix to see if I can find it.
 
2012-07-02 12:57:06 PM

advex101: MBooda: chuckufarlie: Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?

Just some small plaques, in Hebrew and English, in the stone embankment. Here's the English one:
[sites.google.com image 500x375]

Why isn't there a sign in Hungarian? Seems odd. Is it only for tourists?


Kind of the opposite; it's not in the "touristy" areas of Budapest. My cousin's husband, who organized our trip there, had to take us pretty much out of our way to find it. And apparently there is a plaque in Hungarian, according to http://visitbudapest.travel/articles/one-of-budapests-most-moving-memo rials-shoes-on-the-danube/ . I didn't see it though.

Yeah, dust got in my eyes there too. Nothing compared to visiting Buchenwald, though. When we visited there, in addition to dust in my eyes, something affected my middle ear too, causing considerable nausea and nearly making me faint.
 
2012-07-02 02:24:19 PM
utolsó post
 
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