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(MSNBC)   Compassionate Shanghai subway system tells scantily clad women that if they are harassed it's their own fault   ( behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Shanghai, Shanghai Subway, Zhejiang  
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9726 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jun 2012 at 10:45 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-29 11:42:42 AM  

Silly Jesus: The scantily clad woman could have taken steps to minimize her risk of being groped...


This is the argument I have a problem with. It's not the same argument as waving around your money. It's simply not and that is the issue I have.
 
2012-06-29 11:42:49 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: So women have to live a certain way because there are bad elements out there?


We all live like that all the time. You're not special because you're a woman. I don't go around mouthing off to guys bigger than me because I don't want to get beat up. I don't walk down the street naked because I don't want to get arrested. There are a ton of ways we modify our behavior in order to avoid negative consequences. It's part of life. Getting offended because you're a woman and you demand the right to do whatever you want whenever you want, consequence free, is retarded.
 
2012-06-29 11:42:59 AM  
So which is 2012 in Chinese astrology -the year of the pig or the year of the cock?
 
2012-06-29 11:43:05 AM  

Sticky Hands: Tat'dGreaser: Silly Jesus: The woman in the first outfit doesn't run a higher risk (riskier) of garnering the attention of unsavory folks?

Exactly the same?

You can look at a woman all you want. It's when it goes farther that we're talking about. Women can walk around butt ass naked if they want, that doesn't give anyone the right to sexually assault them.

I don't see anyone seriously saying that anyone has a right to molest the gals. The point that I think people are trying to make is:

There are bad elements about, we do our best to get rid of them, but they are out there. Here are some tips on things that an individual can do to reduce their risk of being targeted.

Of course this is based on the assumption that scantily clad women are actually more likely to be groped.
I don't know that that is the case.


I would assume the woman groped will be the one that looks most like she wouldn't fight back/resist. Whoever looks like the easiest prey.
 
2012-06-29 11:44:19 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: So women have to live a certain way because there are bad elements out there?


We all have to live a certain way, or accept certain risks, because of the bad elements. Should it be that way? No. Should we strive as a society to drive that kind of thing from civilization? Yes. In the mean time is there anything wrong with informing people of what steps they can take to reduce those risks? I believe we are not doing anyone a favor by pretending things are how they should be and not how they are.

Since I left high school (where everyone was grabbing everyone), I've only witnessed a hand full of gropes, and I can't think of a one where I believe that "slutty dress" was what attracted the groper.
 
2012-06-29 11:44:27 AM  

Wangiss: To everyone else, did you notice how Tat can't argue with you? He can only argue with an obliquely related idea, that of the "right to sexually assault," which no one is championing. It's one of the most effective trolling methods there is. you'll find more here.


lulz.

9/10
 
2012-06-29 11:44:31 AM  

WhippingBoy: Theaetetus: WhippingBoy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Exactly- after all, it's women's job to police and control men's behavior. It's not like we can ask fully grown, adult male humans to take responsibilty for their actions. That would be crazy talk!

There's one tiny little flaw with your logic. The men who grope/molest/rape strangers are likely sociopaths. So you can have all the "slut-walks" you like and continue to spout off third-wave feminist platitudes, but it's almost certainly going to fall on deaf ears. The ones who will listen are already *not* groping women on trains.

Yes and no...
You're right that the ones who molest strangers are sociopaths. And yes, you probably are not going to reach them.
However, there are many people who aren't sociopaths but will still blame the victim and/or argue that the culpability of the sociopaths is diminished. And those people can and should be reached, because the best way to stop the sociopaths is to get everyone on board with condemning their actions with no caveats.

Yes, I understand completely and I agree. But it seems that some women would rather be "right" and raped/groped/receive unwanted attention than to take what most reasonable people would consider to be sensible precautions.


It also seems that some men would rather stay silent regarding sexual assault than to condemn it without also hedging or having a caveat regarding the victim's clothing.

I swear that within certain feminist circles that there is some sort of "rape-cred". That is, women who have been sexually assaulted somehow have a higher status (due to the fact that they are identifiable "victims" of the oppressive hegemonic patriarchy, and therefore have a better grasp of third-wave feminism) than those who haven't been victimized.

You probably should stop getting your feminist theory from The Spearhead. ;)
 
2012-06-29 11:46:06 AM  

Silly Jesus: What you seem to be having trouble with is the difference between fault for the act and taking steps to minimize risk.

The groper is still 100% at fault for the act of groping...
The scantily clad woman could have taken steps to minimize her risk of being groped...


If the woman stayed home, her risk of being groped on the train is 0%. Are you suggesting that women should stay out of public society?
 
2012-06-29 11:46:37 AM  
lifeisreallybeautiful.com
 
2012-06-29 11:46:41 AM  
usually in these cases, a person dresses in a certain way to gain attention, just not yours. They are holding out for what they think is desireable. Then it's ok.
 
2012-06-29 11:47:33 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: So women have to live a certain way because there are bad elements out there?


Yes. EVERYONE has to live a certain way because there are bad elements out there. We use locks, we rent safe deposit boxes, we buy insurance, we don't leave our kids alone with priests.

Should it be different? Yes. Should we work to make things better, so that people have to take fewer precautions? Yes.

But does the fact that there are bad elements out there mean EVERYONE has to take precautions appropriate to the risks they face? Yes.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:01 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Wangiss: Tat'dGreaser: Women can walk around butt ass naked if they want, that doesn't give anyone the right to sexually assault them.


Tat, we all agree with you. Shut up.

To everyone else, did you notice how Tat can't argue with you? He can only argue with an obliquely related idea, that of the "right to sexually assault," which no one is championing. It's one of the most effective trolling methods there is. you'll find more here.

You don't like my opinion so obviously I'm trolling


No, I'm not saying you're trolling. I'm saying that if people want to troll effectively, they should take up the tactic you are using.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:04 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: lazyguineapig33: looking at someone (who has dressed for attention) is harassment?

also, please for the love of god tell me that the slut walk stupidness isnt spreading.

its as if personal responsibility is something that gets thrown out the window as soon as women and sexuality is involved.

No, I don't think looking at someone like that is harrassment. Groping is harrassment, though, unless it's theft.

That's what slut walk is about. Look but don't touch.


correct me if im wrong here. but the slut walk started when a girl got raped at a drunken party and the press asked a policeman what women can do to not get raped. he said do not dress like a slut. feminists got mad.

Although how he phrased the advice could have been better, i think it was pretty good advice. Do not provide people with the temptation or the opportunity to hurt you.

If he had given the same advice to people that didnt want their cars stolen it might be, "do not leave the car door open with keys in the ignition in a bad neighborhood where there could be people that would steal it."

If he had given advice on how not to get robbed, "do not display money or valuables on the subway train while taking a nap."

but as he says, "do not get passed out drunk so that you cannot defend yourself while simultaneously giving bad people the temptation to hurt you in a place where bad people could be lurking," somehow it becomes an act of oppression of something.

So obviously something else is involved in the equation and i believe it is this. the real reason the slut walk started is because many women, and feminists in particular, view sexuality as power. and they seek to flex that power as much and as often as possible. Therefore the idea that it is not a good idea to display that sexuality in some circumstances is in effect limiting the flexing of that power. So the answer to that is to transplant responsibility for your safety away from yourself and onto society as a whole.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:09 AM  

Theaetetus: You probably should stop getting your feminist theory from The Spearhead. ;)


Feministe/Feministing, actually. I'm not sure how "credible" those sites are in the grand scheme of things, but they seem to be popular.
Never actully hard of the Spearhead. MRA is mostly nonsense.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:10 AM  

Theaetetus: If the woman stayed home, her risk of being groped on the train is 0%. Are you suggesting that women should stay out of public society?


Is that on the table now?
 
2012-06-29 11:48:15 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: my quesiton is why WOULDNT u want to get molested?
as a guy, the thought of a chick grabbing me on a subway sounds REAL SEXY


Sure it SOUNDS hot, but when it happens it will be this girl: aussieexotics.com
 
2012-06-29 11:48:34 AM  

Sticky Hands: Since I left high school (where everyone was grabbing everyone), I've only witnessed a hand full of gropes, and I can't think of a one where I believe that "slutty dress" was what attracted the groper.


This is kind of what I'm getting at, gropers will grope any woman. A woman wearing something skimpy doesn't automatically mean she'll be molested, so why should they dress differently?

I don't know about you guys but I happen to like attractive women in revealing clothing.
 
2012-06-29 11:48:57 AM  

halfof33: It is a good thing that these guys don't take the Metra trains.

"yes, miss, I see your undepants/private parts/etc, now can you kindly cross your legs or something?"


What line is this?
 
2012-06-29 11:49:34 AM  

Wangiss: No, I'm not saying you're trolling. I'm saying that if people want to troll effectively, they should take up the tactic you are using.


Oh the sweet circle of life
 
2012-06-29 11:51:33 AM  

Theaetetus: HotWingConspiracy: My point is, all of these denunciations and defenses about women dressing however they like is just fine, but the people that actually commit sex attacks don't give a single fark. If they did, they wouldn't be attacking people.

Yes, they might very well attack a woman regardless of her attire, but I don't see anything controversial in thinking if a unhinged perv has a choice, he's likely going after the "sexier" target. It's almost a matter of practicality for them.

Not necessarily. Women in sweatpants get raped, and so do grandmothers in bathrobes.


I accounted for that. It's largely a crime of opportunity. But this article was specific to the subway system.

A lot of sexual assault isn't "gosh, I'm horny, where's a woman," but "I want to dominate this woman," which makes sense if you think about your first point: these are sociopaths.
Given that, by telling women that they shouldn't dress sexily, what you're also saying is that if a woman dresses sexily, there will be less effort to protect her or less effort to prosecute an attacker. Essentially, you're creating a guide for the sociopath to select victims.


I wouldn't even tell women to not dress in a certain way, but to consider relevant risks when leaving their home. We all do, it's not controversial. If I'm going to certain places, I present myself certain ways. Like, if some businessman goes to a ghetto to get drugs and gets his ass kicked, the cops are going to ask him what the fark he was thinking. Nobody gets pissy about it, the guy should have used his head.

Ideally this wouldn't be necessary, but we don't live in an ideal world.

I guess in the end I'd like prevention over prosecution. I don't know how to truly achieve that and it shouldn't have to fall on women though.
 
Biv
2012-06-29 11:52:02 AM  
I don't get the mentality of some of the feminazis on here.

Times when is is acceptable to sexually assault a woman: Never

Behavior that raises a woman's risk of being sexually assaulted:
Walking down an alley alone.
Walking alone in the dark.
Crowd surfing at a concert.
Getting passed out drunk at a party.
Meeting someone you met online for the first time alone in a non public place.
Wearing skimpy clothes on a Shanghai subway

Do you get it yet. Sexual assault is not your fault. Regardless, learn to protect yourself.
 
2012-06-29 11:52:45 AM  
What may occur if you are scantily clad:

peacefulsinglegirl.files.wordpress.com

http://peacefulsinglegirl.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/do-guys-really-obj e ctify-scantily-clad-women/
 
2012-06-29 11:53:08 AM  

Silly Jesus: If the woman wakes up in the morning, knowing that she is going to be riding the subway, and she chooses the miniskirt and skimpy top in her closet rather than her burka, then she is increasing the likelihood that she will garner negative attention. Those are simply facts. Nowhere in there did I say that she deserves to be groped, or that groping is ok, if she picks the skimpy outfit over the burka...but she has to know that when making that decision in the morning she is changing the odds of what type of behavior she will encounter later in the day. That's just reality.


Meanwhile, men who are white are also taking a known risk of having their asses kicked by strong grudge-bearing negroes. Such white men should take all necessary precautions by wearing "Tupac 4-ever" shirts or by joining the Nation of Islam. That's not to say that men who don't take such precautions deserve to be beaten into a pile of warm mush, but they certainly are increasing the chances. That's just reality.
 
2012-06-29 11:53:32 AM  

towatchoverme: Shanghaiese women ...

Ridiculously attractive ... but have a reputation as the highest-maintenance women in China.

/That is all


I'll argue that point with you. Shanghai produces the most expensive women (you'll go broke buying Gucci, Coach, etc). Hunan produces the highest maintenance women in terms of requiring attention. I'd say they're about equal in looks, but Westerners tend to like Shanghai women since they display a bit more of a Western fashion.
 
2012-06-29 11:53:42 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Tat'dGreaser: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, just like I'm saying it's perfectly OK to steal from someone who has a huge wad of cash in their hand.

Dumbass.

That's sure as sh*t what it sounds like you're saying. So women aren't allowed to wear whatever they want because men can't help themselves? It's not their fault, that f*cking stupid whore was showing too much skin right?

Exactly- after all, it's women's job to police and control men's behavior. It's not like we can ask fully grown, adult male humans to take responsibilty for their actions. That would be crazy talk!

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack probably isn't too stable a human, right? It's not because it's a man.

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack very likely behaves himself in other situations and blends in with the rest of humanity, right? He'll only attack when there's an opportunity to hurt someone in a way that's condoned by the rest of society.

That doesn't change what I said.

And yes, it is condoned. Witness half the comments in this thread.

No one has condoned sex attacks in this thread.


You must be reading a different thread than I am, because I'm seeing a lot of comments along the lines of: "Well, women have to restrict their behavior in order not to provoke attacks from people who really should know better, but hey, they're only women so I guess we'll let their attackers off the hook for that whole 'personal responsibility' thing. It's regrettable, but I'm afraid that's the way of the world."

That line of thinking enables sociopathic attackers. They know that if they do harass or attack someone, most people will carry on like they are in this thread, tut-tutting over women's clothing choices and shrugging their shoulders at the injustice.
 
2012-06-29 11:54:21 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Wangiss: No, I'm not saying you're trolling. I'm saying that if people want to troll effectively, they should take up the tactic you are using.

Oh the sweet circle of life


You like what I did there?
 
2012-06-29 11:54:23 AM  

autopsybeverage: So which is 2012 in Chinese astrology -the year of the pig or the year of the cock?


Actually, it's the year of the dragon.
 
2012-06-29 11:54:29 AM  

Biv: I don't get the mentality of some of the feminazis on here.

Times when is is acceptable to sexually assault a woman: Never

Behavior that raises a woman's risk of being sexually assaulted:
Walking down an alley alone.
Walking alone in the dark.
Crowd surfing at a concert.
Getting passed out drunk at a party.
Meeting someone you met online for the first time alone in a non public place.
Wearing skimpy clothes on a Shanghai subway

Do you get it yet. Sexual assault is not your fault. Regardless, learn to protect yourself.


I don't think I've ever seen a girl crowd surf WITHOUT some jackass (or 10) try to cop a feel.
 
2012-06-29 11:54:46 AM  

Wangiss: You like what I did there?


It was pretty good

golf clap
 
2012-06-29 11:54:57 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Silly Jesus: The woman in the first outfit doesn't run a higher risk (riskier) of garnering the attention of unsavory folks?

Exactly the same?

You can look at a woman all you want. It's when it goes farther that we're talking about. Women can walk around butt ass naked if they want, that doesn't give anyone the right to sexually assault them.



No shiat sherlock. And leaving your car running with the keys in it doesn't mean you deserve to have it stolen, but guess what act makes your car most likely to be stolen.

the idea that you can't suggest precautions is ridiculous, and only happens when we're talking about women being harassed. No one says "how DARE you suggest I take the keys out of my car?? It's my RIGHT to leave the keys in! And yet you would have me LOCK THE DOORS? I'm NOT LISTENING to this claptrap!"

Granted the authorities quoted in the article sound like d-bags who are blaming the victim, but the general principle of precaution should be one that we're able to bring up without a knee jerk reaction.

People need to learn how to talk about precautions without sounding victim-blamey, and people need to be able to hear about precautions without having a hissy-fit.
 
2012-06-29 11:55:20 AM  

Wangiss:
And if we can't solve the whole problem with one piece of advice, there is absolutely no sense in following that piece of advice.


Here's the thing. I've got a better piece of advice that WILL solve the problem. STOP FONDLING AND GROPING WOMEN ON THE SUBWAY. Why is the onus on the woman to protect herself from a-holes? "Look, there's a lot of creeps out there trying to touch your skin mitten while you wait for your stop so instead of trying to stop them from doing something illegal, we'd like you to change YOUR lifestyle so as not to encourage it."

We could all prevent unwelcome touching if we agreed to never leave the house as well. We could avoid burglary if we didn't all buy nice things. If we didn't belittle serial killers when they were children they wouldn't go on a rampage twenty years later. It just seems backward.
 
2012-06-29 11:55:50 AM  
goodmenproject.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com

You people are pretty disgusting.
 
2012-06-29 11:55:51 AM  

Theaetetus: Given that, by telling women that they shouldn't dress sexily, what you're also saying is that if a woman dresses sexily, there will be less effort to protect her or less effort to prosecute an attacker


How in the name of all that's decent and holy do you come to *this* conclusion???
 
2012-06-29 11:55:55 AM  
Meanwhile, in America, Saturday...

bank.imgdumpr.com
farm3.static.flickr.com
media.peopleofwalmart.com
 
2012-06-29 11:56:20 AM  
For the love of God, can we please stop comparing auto theft to sexual assault?
 
2012-06-29 11:56:23 AM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Tat'dGreaser: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, just like I'm saying it's perfectly OK to steal from someone who has a huge wad of cash in their hand.

Dumbass.

That's sure as sh*t what it sounds like you're saying. So women aren't allowed to wear whatever they want because men can't help themselves? It's not their fault, that f*cking stupid whore was showing too much skin right?

Exactly- after all, it's women's job to police and control men's behavior. It's not like we can ask fully grown, adult male humans to take responsibilty for their actions. That would be crazy talk!

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack probably isn't too stable a human, right? It's not because it's a man.

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack very likely behaves himself in other situations and blends in with the rest of humanity, right? He'll only attack when there's an opportunity to hurt someone in a way that's condoned by the rest of society.

That doesn't change what I said.

And yes, it is condoned. Witness half the comments in this thread.

No one has condoned sex attacks in this thread.

You must be reading a different thread than I am, because I'm seeing a lot of comments along the lines of: "Well, women have to restrict their behavior in order not to provoke attacks from people who really should know better, but hey, they're only women so I guess we'll let their attackers off the hook for that whole 'personal responsibility' thing. It's regrettable, but I'm afraid that's the way of the world."

That line of thinking enables sociopathic attackers. They know that if they do harass or attack someone, most people will carry on like they are in this thread, tut-tutting over women's clothing choices and shrugging their shoulders at the injustice.


Yeah you're reading a different thread.
 
2012-06-29 11:57:04 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: So women have to live a certain way because there are bad elements out there?


Don't think this is about condoning sexual harassment, it's just that in this context (outside of work) it's a trivial and common enough crime that the cops don't have the time to protect you from your bad habits, which sorta leaves it on you unless you get really lucky with a cop standing right there or a security camera catching it, etc.

This is the equivalent of telling people to keep an eye on their belongings on the bus so that no one steals them. It doesn't mean stealing your shiat is legal, it just means you're a farking idiot if you're all "GASP! How DARE you tell me what to do with my property!" and start leaving your backpack by the exit door four rows behind where you're sitting instead of at your feet. Still not legal to take your backpack, and your negligence in no way changes the penalty for the theft, it's just not a high-enough priority crime that the cops are gonna probably have the manpower to get to it, so you need to take some responsibility for protecting yourself in cases where the threat is known.

In the case of people groping you, I'd go with "wear pants and carry a taser", personally. Frankly, I'd wear pants on the subway in general just so I'm not sitting directly on the hobo-piss-covered seat that's only been lightly steam-cleaned or sticking my bare ass into some poor sap's face when the thing is crowded. Kinda common courtesy there as well as basic caution.
 
2012-06-29 11:57:18 AM  

ha-ha-guy: towatchoverme: Shanghaiese women ...

Ridiculously attractive ... but have a reputation as the highest-maintenance women in China.

/That is all

I'll argue that point with you. Shanghai produces the most expensive women (you'll go broke buying Gucci, Coach, etc). Hunan produces the highest maintenance women in terms of requiring attention. I'd say they're about equal in looks, but Westerners tend to like Shanghai women since they display a bit more of a Western fashion.


Cantonese.
 
2012-06-29 11:57:35 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: I think we have to get over the silly PC taboo about admitting that certain behaviours make you vastly more likely to be a target.

Like riding crowded public transportation with most of your money poking out visibly in plain sight from underneath your clothes.

Or, likewise, riding crowded public transportation with most of your body your body hanging out visibly in plain sight from your clothes.

I don't see why one of those is those truisms is so damn controversial to the wingnuts.


Hey, if someone wants to look at what is on display, more power to them IMO but the point at which you reach out for a grab is blatant harassment and a woman is never asking for it no matter what she's wearing (or not wearing). I don't see why this truism is so damn controversial to the wingnuts.

/elbowed a guy trying to cop a feel on the subway, stared at him until he got off the subway (next stop)
//was wearing a very conservative business suit
 
2012-06-29 11:58:24 AM  
img694.imageshack.us

but but but she really *was* asking for it....
 
2012-06-29 11:58:55 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Don't think this is about condoning sexual harassment, it's just that in this context (outside of work) it's a trivial and common enough crime that the cops don't have the time to protect you from your bad habits, which sorta leaves it on you unless you get really lucky with a cop standing right there or a security camera catching it, etc.


The problem I have is the "bad habit" people are talking about is wearing clothing. Who decides what clothing constitutes a "bad habit"? If I'm not mistaken some cultures consider showing your hair that exact thing.

I happen to love this country because women can wear what they want in public.
 
2012-06-29 11:59:18 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: I guess in the end I'd like prevention over prosecution. I don't know how to truly achieve that and it shouldn't have to fall on women though.


Speak up against it when you see it, and speak up against it when you hear other people discussing it. Don't hedge and say "well, she shouldn't have suffered that, but she shouldn't have dressed that way" or otherwise place blame anywhere but the attacker. If you see someone catcalling, tell them it's not cool.
 
2012-06-29 11:59:19 AM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Tat'dGreaser: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, just like I'm saying it's perfectly OK to steal from someone who has a huge wad of cash in their hand.

Dumbass.

That's sure as sh*t what it sounds like you're saying. So women aren't allowed to wear whatever they want because men can't help themselves? It's not their fault, that f*cking stupid whore was showing too much skin right?

Exactly- after all, it's women's job to police and control men's behavior. It's not like we can ask fully grown, adult male humans to take responsibilty for their actions. That would be crazy talk!

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack probably isn't too stable a human, right? It's not because it's a man.

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack very likely behaves himself in other situations and blends in with the rest of humanity, right? He'll only attack when there's an opportunity to hurt someone in a way that's condoned by the rest of society.

That doesn't change what I said.

And yes, it is condoned. Witness half the comments in this thread.

No one has condoned sex attacks in this thread.

You must be reading a different thread than I am, because I'm seeing a lot of comments along the lines of: "Well, women have to restrict their behavior in order not to provoke attacks from people who really should know better, but hey, they're only women so I guess we'll let their attackers off the hook for that whole 'personal responsibility' thing. It's regrettable, but I'm afraid that's the way of the world."

That line of thinking enables sociopathic attackers. They know that if they do harass or attack someone, most people will carry on like they are in this thread, tut-tutting over women's clothing choices and shrugging their shoulders at the injustice.


Here's another one, everybody! Notice how no quote would suffice to make this commentator's point about the behavior of posters in this thread? That's because no one has said anything as reprehensible as what this poster seems to interpret when s/he reads the thread! It's totally awesome!

You can learn a lot from genuinely angry people about how to ride Poe's law to the moon and back with Newt Gingrich!
 
2012-06-29 11:59:19 AM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: "Well, women have to restrict their behavior in order not to provoke attacks from people who really should know better, but hey, they're only women so I guess we'll let their attackers off the hook for that whole 'personal responsibility' thing. It's regrettable, but I'm afraid that's the way of the world."


How about: Chinese culture clearly requires a woman's right movement to grant women further protections and safety in the public sphere. However due to a number of ingrained factors such a movement is going to take awhile to succeed. As such one would be wise to monitor their fashion choices until such a time as Chinese culture has been successfully altered?

Women's rights is actually hard in China since the CCP argues it already accomplished it. It's one of the pillars on which the CCP bases its legitimacy, they have already created an equitable society. The CCP stopped things like feet binding, gave women access to education, and let them into the work force. So actually if you argue the rights of women are lacking and do so in too provocative of a manner you're seen as challenging the word of the Communist Party. At that point bad things happen to you. So part of any Chinese social movement (not just women's rights) involves very slow and incremental social change while not pissing off state security.
 
2012-06-29 11:59:39 AM  

Silly Jesus:
So someone dressed like this...
[cdnimg.visualizeus.com image 215x184]
doesn't attract more negative unwanted attention than someone dressed like this...?


Negative attention, sure... maybe. Unwanted? I don't believe that for a second. Women know when they dress a certain way they get a certain kind of attention. The problem is when the line is crossed from admiring looks to full-on assault. The problem with these guys is they lack the confidence to just hit on the girl, so they go for a cheap grope (or worse) instead.

But I don't believe for a second that the girl in the first picture wants guys to be looking at her and drooling.



[www.aaanything.net image 500x501]

The woman in the first outfit doesn't run a higher risk (riskier) of garnering the attention of unsavory folks?

Exactly the same?


Here's the funny thing about rape. Most rapists don't do it for sex, or attraction or anything like that. They do it as a show of force. Plenty of ugly, conservatively dressed women get raped.

This isn't an easy question, and frankly I'm more on the side of protecting yourself. BUT, I'm not sure that just "dressing down" makes a big difference here.
 
2012-06-29 11:59:48 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: halfof33: It is a good thing that these guys don't take the Metra trains.

"yes, miss, I see your undepants/private parts/etc, now can you kindly cross your legs or something?"

What line is this?


just about any line with double decker cars, particularly right after Cubs games.
 
Biv
2012-06-29 12:00:24 PM  

Sticky Hands: Biv: I don't get the mentality of some of the feminazis on here.

Times when is is acceptable to sexually assault a woman: Never

Behavior that raises a woman's risk of being sexually assaulted:
Walking down an alley alone.
Walking alone in the dark.
Crowd surfing at a concert.
Getting passed out drunk at a party.
Meeting someone you met online for the first time alone in a non public place.
Wearing skimpy clothes on a Shanghai subway

Do you get it yet. Sexual assault is not your fault. Regardless, learn to protect yourself.

I don't think I've ever seen a girl crowd surf WITHOUT some jackass (or 10) try to cop a feel.


Knew a girl in high school. Biggest prude you'll ever meet, major religious type. But at concerts she wore short shorts and sports bras and loved to crowd surf. Every time she'd get groped so much her exposed skin would all be red afterwards. I asked her if it bothered her and her response was roughly: "A little. I wish they wouldn't, but if you want to crowd surf you have to expect it. I know what I'm getting into."

Exactly the point.
 
2012-06-29 12:02:10 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: HotWingConspiracy: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Tat'dGreaser: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, just like I'm saying it's perfectly OK to steal from someone who has a huge wad of cash in their hand.

Dumbass.

That's sure as sh*t what it sounds like you're saying. So women aren't allowed to wear whatever they want because men can't help themselves? It's not their fault, that f*cking stupid whore was showing too much skin right?

Exactly- after all, it's women's job to police and control men's behavior. It's not like we can ask fully grown, adult male humans to take responsibilty for their actions. That would be crazy talk!

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack probably isn't too stable a human, right? It's not because it's a man.

You realize that someone that would commit a sex attack very likely behaves himself in other situations and blends in with the rest of humanity, right? He'll only attack when there's an opportunity to hurt someone in a way that's condoned by the rest of society.

That doesn't change what I said.

And yes, it is condoned. Witness half the comments in this thread.

No one has condoned sex attacks in this thread.

You must be reading a different thread than I am, because I'm seeing a lot of comments along the lines of: "Well, women have to restrict their behavior in order not to provoke attacks from people who really should know better, but hey, they're only women so I guess we'll let their attackers off the hook for that whole 'personal responsibility' thing. It's regrettable, but I'm afraid that's the way of the world."

That line of thinking enables sociopathic attackers. They know that if they do harass or attack someone, most people will carry on like they are in this thread, tut-tutting over women's clothing choices and shrugging their shoulders at the injustice.

Yeah you're reading a different thread.


I . . . I think the heat outside might be affecting you more than you realize. Why not have a cold drink and lie down?
 
2012-06-29 12:02:15 PM  

GungFu: Meanwhile, in America, Saturday...

[bank.imgdumpr.com image 450x395]
[farm3.static.flickr.com image 360x492]
[media.peopleofwalmart.com image 600x375]


"With hair, heels, and attitude, honey, I am through the roof."
― RuPaul
 
2012-06-29 12:02:33 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: Wangiss:
And if we can't solve the whole problem with one piece of advice, there is absolutely no sense in following that piece of advice.

Here's the thing. I've got a better piece of advice that WILL solve the problem. STOP FONDLING AND GROPING WOMEN ON THE SUBWAY. Why is the onus on the woman to protect herself from a-holes? "Look, there's a lot of creeps out there trying to touch your skin mitten while you wait for your stop so instead of trying to stop them from doing something illegal, we'd like you to change YOUR lifestyle so as not to encourage it."

We could all prevent unwelcome touching if we agreed to never leave the house as well. We could avoid burglary if we didn't all buy nice things. If we didn't belittle serial killers when they were children they wouldn't go on a rampage twenty years later. It just seems backward.


This is one of the better posts from the anti-prevention crowd.

Do you think that gropers have not been told not to grope?
"...advice that WILL solve the problem. STOP FONDLING..."

That advice hasn't been given? And now that you're giving it, it will stop? That's what you think?
 
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