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(Daily Mail)   Man raped and abused 3 MN preteen girls, fled to Ireland and abused 2 more. US: Can we have him back, please? Britain: No. You'll just be mean to him. Besides, we already gave him a good talking to, and he's promised not to do it again   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 38
    More: Asinine, Ministry of Justice, Extradition Act, United States, senior judge, Gary McKinnon, Home Secretary, Fort Benning, Ireland  
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19448 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jun 2012 at 6:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-06-29 02:54:19 AM  
4 votes:
So, rather than agreeing to Britain's demands, and locking that guy up for 50 years after a fair trial, during which we'd know for sure he wouldn't be abusing children, the United States insists on the right to lock him up indefinitely without charges, essentially allowing him to go free since they knew the judges wouldn't go for it. Lovely.
2012-06-29 08:21:24 AM  
3 votes:
This could work in Americas favor. Send all our sex offenders to the UK on "vacation" issue a warrant for their arrest stating they will be put in an sex offenders program and let the UK refuse to send them back, bingo billions in tax money saved and the public safer!
2012-06-29 07:35:23 AM  
3 votes:
Listen, all we have to do is surreptitiously plant a couple handguns and some ammo in his home, and then phone in an anonymous tip. Maybe even consider SWATting him. Once the Bobbies/Peelers/whatever find those, he's going away for a long, long time. Bonus: They'll be footing the bill for it, all while congratulating themselves for getting some "dangerous guns" off the street.
2012-06-29 06:53:55 AM  
3 votes:
Sullivan lives in London with his wife, who works for the Ministry of Justice

Well there you go...
2012-06-29 07:59:31 AM  
2 votes:
They will extradite him as soon as the US offers guarantees that they will follow their own constitution. It's interesting that the constitution seems to no longer be a legal document but a religious one where fanatics (RON PAUL) pick and chose what bits they actually want to follow without realising it is meant to all be followed all the time and for everyone including paedophiles.

Sullivan's lawyer, Ben Brandon, previously told the court no one had been released from the treatment programme, operated by the Department of Human Services in Minnesota, since it began in its current form in 1988.

Well that certainly doesn't sound like that "treatment" programme is a complete failure then nor does it sound like an attempt to deny liberty without due process. Just give him a trial and then lock him up as long as you want. It seems that US government is not convinced he is guilty of what he has been accused and therefore don't want it to go to a trial.
2012-06-29 07:08:49 AM  
2 votes:

doglover: Cubansaltyballs: I wonder how compassionate the Brits will feel after he rapes a few young girls there.

He did already.


He was only caught once, who knows how many little girls he's actually raped.

I believe a country has a right to not extradite someone if they think the accused will be mistreated, but for God's sake he's already raped their own children. I think it's a shut f*cking case by now.
2012-06-29 07:03:14 AM  
2 votes:
He should have his testicles removed and hung from the highest gate in London as a warning to others. That said, civil commitment is an unamerican and unconstitutional farce. I dislike the outcome, but justice in general must outweigh justice for this one arsehat.
2012-06-29 07:02:26 AM  
2 votes:
They extradite Assange but not this farker?
2012-06-29 06:47:29 AM  
2 votes:
I don't disagree with the thinking behind civil commitment but you can't argue that indefinite detention, possibly without even a fair trial, would contravene the legal rights of a person under UK and EU law.

Perhaps it's time for the law to be changed for some circumstances. It's certainly not fine just to ignore the laws on America's say-so.
2012-06-29 01:08:39 AM  
2 votes:

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Actually, it reads to be more like:

Britain: Promise that won't lock him up for life without convicting him in a trial first
America: No


You do understand what civil confinement is, dont you?

It does not involve the court system after one is made a patient. While there, the doctors decide when you are good to leave the program.
2012-06-29 12:44:30 AM  
2 votes:
Actually, it reads to be more like:

Britain: Promise that won't lock him up for life without convicting him in a trial first
America: No
2012-06-29 12:43:09 PM  
1 votes:
And yet they're express extraditing that kid for copyright infringement, for linking to pirated material he didn't even host.
i.imgur.com
2012-06-29 12:10:30 PM  
1 votes:
www.motifake.com

/Too easy....
//Goofy mood today....
2012-06-29 11:45:44 AM  
1 votes:

ChubbyTiger: He should have his testicles removed and hung from the highest gate in London as a warning to others. That said, civil commitment is an unamerican and unconstitutional farce. I dislike the outcome, but justice in general must outweigh justice for this one arsehat.


Will you wave like this?

i75.photobucket.com
2012-06-29 10:41:07 AM  
1 votes:

AbbeySomeone: That's comforting. I wonder why they mistrust this.


THIS.

Civil Confinement is VERY VERY scary. Limited judicial oversight, no due process, no appeal, no bail, no parole, no nothing... just you locked up and drugged into insensibility until some quack pshrink on the state payroll decides to let you go. And because said quack is probably paid by the head, he has a personal financial incentive NOT to release you any time soon.
2012-06-29 09:55:16 AM  
1 votes:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: So, rather than agreeing to Britain's demands, and locking that guy up for 50 years after a fair trial, during which we'd know for sure he wouldn't be abusing children, the United States insists on the right to lock him up indefinitely without charges, essentially allowing him to go free since they knew the judges wouldn't go for it. Lovely.



So, rather than agreeing to American demands to turn him over, he's now Britain's problem and poses a very real threat to British citizens. Lovely.


/trials and imprisonment are expensive
2012-06-29 08:44:26 AM  
1 votes:

MmmmBacon: Tat'dGreaser: dittybopper: That you *KNOW* about.

This too, he was only caught twice. Who the f*ck knows how many times he's done this. You have to be completely in-the-clouds naive to believe he only did this twice.

Problem is, both the US and UK are nations where the rule of law still means something. He could have raped hundreds of children, and all that matters is what the State can prove, not what they suspect. If the State can prove he continues to offend, then they should try him for those crimes, but we cannot assume someone is guilty based upon supposition and the predilection to re-offend other pedophiles exhibit. Otherwise we are nothing but a witch-hunting mob.


It's not a witch-hunting mob if he hasn't answered for his crimes over here. It's the seeking of justice for crimes already committed. He'll have his day in court, with arguably more protections than he might get in the UK. For example, since rape is purely a state crime, the only real exception to Double Jeopardy in the United States (dual sovereignty by state and federal law) wouldn't apply if he is originally acquitted.
2012-06-29 08:25:09 AM  
1 votes:

Tat'dGreaser: dittybopper: That you *KNOW* about.

This too, he was only caught twice. Who the f*ck knows how many times he's done this. You have to be completely in-the-clouds naive to believe he only did this twice.


Problem is, both the US and UK are nations where the rule of law still means something. He could have raped hundreds of children, and all that matters is what the State can prove, not what they suspect. If the State can prove he continues to offend, then they should try him for those crimes, but we cannot assume someone is guilty based upon supposition and the predilection to re-offend other pedophiles exhibit. Otherwise we are nothing but a witch-hunting mob.
2012-06-29 08:03:26 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA:

was given a suspended jail sentence in Ireland in 1996 for sexually assaulting two 12-year-old girls

I could give a crap if the UK wants to keep our sex offenders but WTF is with Ireland giving this guy his walking papers after raping 12yo girls?
2012-06-29 07:41:23 AM  
1 votes:
dnrtfa

but if he abused kids in Ireland, how'd he end up in British custody?

Surely the Irish government would be asking for extradition as well as the US?

/are we confusing Ireland with Northern Ireland again?
2012-06-29 07:39:58 AM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: That you *KNOW* about.


This too, he was only caught twice. Who the f*ck knows how many times he's done this. You have to be completely in-the-clouds naive to believe he only did this twice.
2012-06-29 07:38:39 AM  
1 votes:

vsavatar: Tat'dGreaser: MmmmBacon: Indeed. But if they feel he has "done his time" under their laws, Britain is under no obligation to hand him over to the U.S., if they feel he might receive unfair or cruel treatment. Once upon a time, the U.S. would take the exact same stance with countries that might torture or kill a prisoner.

Now we ship those countries our political prisoners. Oh how times have changed!

Well then that's sad, but they can just deal with him raping their children.

Hide yo wife, hide yo kids, no seriously because he's probably going to rape them.

Even though he hasn't done so in over 15 years?


That you *KNOW* about.

Even if he was totally reformed, and only dipped his wick in ex-prostitute granny sluts since then, it's irrelevant to the matter of him answering for the crimes he's already committed.
2012-06-29 07:31:36 AM  
1 votes:

Makh: They probably think he just has a foot fetish because we spell paedophile wrong.


Peter File?
2012-06-29 07:26:58 AM  
1 votes:
Actually I'm pained to admit that seems like a fairly accurate article by the daily mail having read about this on the BBC and The Times.

Obviously he should go to America and face trial, but as he doesn't seem to have offended since he was in his 20s or so and it's now 18 years and he's living with an adult woman later I do wonder what this "America's Most Wanted Sex Criminal" status is about. Being charitable it seems like exaggeration at best.

The problem here is partly that influence on the British system by the European Convention on Human Rights has raised the definition of "Human Rights" to a ridiculous standard.
Secondly a truly halfwitted Extradition Act which Tony Blair signed with the USA because he trusted you guys. More fool him, now it seems that the British legal system can be manipulated by attention seeking local DAs of low moral status who would be lucky to get jobs as cleaning court floors over here and sloppy/dishonest/corrupt federal agencies.

In this particular case my first instinct is to say that the locals in Minnesota should be brought to heel but no doubt there are States Rights issues there so it's not possible.

So, although the legal system here is far from perfect and as a fellow common law country there is much we can and should learn from the US, I'm not eager to have your legal system over here as quite frankly it seems that large parts of it are shiattily run.
And don't get me started on Europe.

OK, rant over.
2012-06-29 07:22:28 AM  
1 votes:

cman:
It does not involve the court system after one is made a patient.

Whereas in the UK the Mental Health Act makes damn sure that the legal system is involved in any detention. We're picky like that, and don't like locking people up indefinitely without legal recourse. Habeus Corpus, Magna Carta, that sort of thing.

While there, the doctors decide when you are good to leave the program.
The BBC claims that nobody has ever (since 1988) been released from the programme. If that's true, does it worry you?
2012-06-29 07:15:50 AM  
1 votes:

Tat'dGreaser: doglover: Cubansaltyballs: I wonder how compassionate the Brits will feel after he rapes a few young girls there.

He did already.

He was only caught once, who knows how many little girls he's actually raped.

I believe a country has a right to not extradite someone if they think the accused will be mistreated, but for God's sake he's already raped their own children. I think it's a shut f*cking case by now.


Indeed. But if they feel he has "done his time" under their laws, Britain is under no obligation to hand him over to the U.S., if they feel he might receive unfair or cruel treatment. Once upon a time, the U.S. would take the exact same stance with countries that might torture or kill a prisoner.

Now we ship those countries our political prisoners. Oh how times have changed!
2012-06-29 07:06:47 AM  
1 votes:

cman: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Actually, it reads to be more like:

Britain: Promise that won't lock him up for life without convicting him in a trial first
America: No

You do understand what civil confinement is, dont you?

It does not involve the court system after one is made a patient. While there, the doctors decide when you are good to leave the program.


So in essence, you could be confined for life w/o benefit of a trial. I see.
2012-06-29 06:53:34 AM  
1 votes:
Now that is a punchable face.
2012-06-29 06:46:14 AM  
1 votes:
Was it really necessary to put McKinnon in an article with baby rapers? farking bullshiat propaganda.
2012-06-29 04:32:28 AM  
1 votes:

Cubansaltyballs: I wonder how compassionate the Brits will feel after he rapes a few young girls there.


He did already.
2012-06-29 04:27:09 AM  
1 votes:
I wonder how compassionate the Brits will feel after he rapes a few young girls there.
2012-06-29 02:50:21 AM  
1 votes:

TsarTom: AbbeySomeone: What happened to his wife's chin?

She's English.


At least she's not smiling.
2012-06-29 02:37:27 AM  
1 votes:

AbbeySomeone: What happened to his wife's chin?


She's English.
2012-06-29 02:36:22 AM  
1 votes:
They probably think he just has a foot fetish because we spell paedophile wrong.
2012-06-29 02:26:10 AM  
1 votes:
You raped again? That's it, no dessert for you young man.
2012-06-29 02:22:49 AM  
1 votes:
Stop raping children, or I'll say stop raping children again!
2012-06-29 01:19:18 AM  
1 votes:

cman: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Actually, it reads to be more like:

Britain: Promise that won't lock him up for life without convicting him in a trial first
America: No

You do understand what civil confinement is, dont you?

It does not involve the court system after one is made a patient. While there, the doctors decide when you are good to leave the program.


Actually, I didn't, which is why I said "reads to me"

Colour me entirely unsurprised that the Daily Fail is sensationalising another bullshiat argument then.
2012-06-28 11:51:46 PM  
1 votes:
A sentence worse than death:

i47.tinypic.com

Case dismissed.
 
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